I'm interested in that rhetorical device: "We’re not at war with Iran. We’re at war with Iran’s nuclear program."
I believe it's called paradiastole — or redescription. Other examples:
George W. Bush, 2003: "We’re not occupying Iraq. We’re liberating it."
Barack Obama, 2013: "This is not a war on terror. It’s a campaign against specific networks like al-Qaeda."
Bill Clinton, 1999: "This is not a war. It’s a humanitarian intervention."
Benjamin Netanyahu, 2014: "We’re not fighting the Palestinian people. We’re fighting Hamas.”
Ronald Reagan, 1980s: "We’re not waging war against Nicaragua. We’re supporting freedom fighters."
Posts
220 comments:
1 – 200 of 220 Newer› Newest»That sounds like a distinction without a difference, but it's an echo of Iranian rhetoric. When the mullahs lead 50,000 people in "Death to America!" chants the chanters have been known to explain the meaning as confined to our national government and its influence rather than the American people. The Iranian civil population will understand VP Vance clearly whether DD Driver is utterly flummoxed.
He'd done better to say we are not at war with the Iranian people. Agree Quaestor, not much of a distinction provided. Could have said, we are not interested in war, but we are also not interested in Iran having a nuclear bomb. The latter outweighed the former, but not that option has been eliminated for Iran; we are ready to discuss peace.
To be fair, this isn't a civil assault as in Serbia, nor a coup as in Kiev, nor a predation in ethnic Springs, nor a regime change to mark the end of war, but a little pin prick to wake, a scalpel to mitigate a "burden" of state.
Vance is inviting a Ceausescu solution to the problem. It's going to be more complicated than that. The people we'd like to have govern Iran are not currently in a position to do so.
Marco Rubio said the same thing on Fox. Unitary Executive.
When did these B-1 pilots sleep?
Mr. D said...
Vance is inviting a Ceausescu solution to the problem. It's going to be more complicated than that. The people we'd like to have govern Iran are not currently in a position to do so.
Last night Wince said...
Trump likely destroyed Iran’s nuclear program, but hopefully it’s Musk’s Starlink service that will do even more for peaceful, modernizing regime change in Iran.
Tangentially, El Salvador is free at last and Garcia can go home.
Rubio got in a great dig at John Kerry. Epic.
Face the Nation right now-
2 congresscritters to discuss last night's activities.
Ro Khanna, of course, and a randomly selected Republican, Massie, Trump's frenemy.
Politicians talking euphemisms is not a bug, it's a feature.
@Dave Begley, the USAF used B-2 bombers, not B-1s. The B-2s are stealthy; the B-1s are supersonic.
Iran has been at war with us since 1979. Of course we are at war with them. It is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Up until now most - but not all - of our actions against them have been economic. We're just now getting seriously into kinetic activities.
Point of information. Iran formally declared war on the USA in 1980 and is, at least technically, still at war with us.
It means no US boots on the ground. Hopefully
Biggest differences between Trump 1.0 and Trump 2.0:
1. The Cabinet and entire Executive team; and
2. With respect to the media: Trump is the hunter and not the hunted.
their proxy war started in beirut, there was an instance as far west as torrejon base in 1985, plus encounters in Afghanistan and Iraq,
https://twitchy.com/samj/2025/06/22/ben-rhodes-iran-post-fascism-n2414591
Big difference now -no one is talking boots on the ground.
JD Vance is impressive.
Compare him to Kamala. (face palm)
"Rubio got in a great dig at John Kerry. Epic."
What a wonderful way to show how serious they are taking the potential fallout from this action.
https://twitchy.com/samj/2025/06/22/seth-abramsons-frothy-mouthed-meltdown-n2414588 I know punching down
We're not castrating. We're neutering.
John Kerry has been a traitor on so many fronts, that its almost not worth noting,
1. Now imagine VP Harris or VP Walz doing that interview.
2. President GW Bush = Dumb President. Brutal.
Narciso - 10:23 - 100%
John Kerry is a massive fraud.
"If we don't allow them to build it, the fallout wont come."
I'm trying to fix it up a little.
Dave Begley said...
When did these B-1 pilots sleep?
All night long, in their beds, since it was a mission for B-2s. ;)
The point of the distinction here is to tell the world, and Iran, that while we may not like their freaky religious nutbar government, we aren’t here to change it.
They can have that awful government if they want, they just can’t have it AND a nuclear weapons program. If you want to have government sponsored rallies where 100,000 people scream “death to America” then you don’t get to have a nuclear program. It is as simple and as complicated as that.
The crew must take turns sleeping. Apparently the B-2 has a toilet, a bunk, a microwave and a place for some coolers of food the pilots pack for themselves.
Holdfast - indeed.
I myself DO want to change their "freaky religious nutbar" theocratic government.
I still hope it happens. I'm rooting for the people of Iran - who deserve better.
It's ridiculous how much smarter he is than her
We've been at war with Iran for 46 years, ever since old Bucketmouth Carter let the mullahs take control.
Barack Obama, 2013: "This is not a war on terror. It’s a campaign against specific networks like al-Qaeda."
Hmmm. I guess that mean Obama supported some terrorists, but not others. His anti-colonialism bs again?
We are so lucky that Trump won. Kamala would have been a dumber, more radical version of Obama and we would be faacked.
well he was good at 'killing people' as he told heilleman and halperin,
Putin claimed his attack on Ukraine was not an invasion, it was a “special military operation” to protect any Russians living in Ukraine.
yet al baghdadi was one of those he deemed wasn't worthy,
"Back then, we had dumb presidents"
The Gap Band - You Dropped A Bomb On Me
Operation Carnivore: beef tallow is less inflammatory in human digestion than the vegan alternative.
Bob Boyd said...
Apparently the B-2 has a toilet, a bunk, a microwave and a place for some coolers of food the pilots pack for themselves.
Trump previously ordered Air Force refueling planes to be retrofitted with Golden Arches,™ drive-up windows and deep fryers... using beef tallow.
All I know is seeing John Bolton so happy makes me nervous.
So Trump worked with Israel to end the nuclear program of a regime dedicated to wiping out the Jews. How Nazi can you get?
One of the biggest mistakes we ever made was the $1.7 billion Obama shipped to Iran, in cash no less. From that feckless, utterly craven decision by Lord Zero, the mullahs reached the logical conclusion that led to the night of the bunker busters.
I'm not pissing in your face. It's raining.
You know right,
Lefty Mark, show us on your John Kerry blow-up doll where Rubio touched you.
I don't care if the Iranian regime is a death cult but I do care what they're a death cult with.
the problem is you give them 100 billion dollars, what do you think they will do with it,
Just another one of the USA's mindless "wars" done on behalf of Israel or some dumb desire to be the world's policeman. Well, what can you do?
Did Althouse blog about Tucker's interview with Ted Cruz? I don't think so, but I think everyone should go watch it. Cruz glories in the fact that's he's Israel's bitch and states AIPCAC doesn't support Israel enough. LOL.
Cruz is also a stupid Christian Zionist who asserts "the bible" commands we "worship Israel". When pressed by Tucker, he couldn't remember the verse, or even the book in the bible where this occurs. IOW, his Christianity is as fake as his patriotism.
So, anyway all the dummies who can't find Iran on a map, or know how many people they have, or their demographic makeup, will start their usual 'hoopin and a hollering' for war and beat their chest about "Well, we showed them. 'Murica!"
Meanwhile, the Israelis smirk at what morons they have for allies. Y'know good help is hard to find.
It depends on what the definition of "is" is.
If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit.
A queer kink... quirk of weird... fate.
A fetus... fetish, to be sure.
Epstein committed suicide and we are at war with Iran. The Deep State strikes back.
holdfast said…"If you want to have government sponsored rallies where 100,000 people scream “death to America” then you don’t get to have a nuclear program."
That's where I'm at. I'm worried about what happens next, but if Trump had let Iran proceed to a bomb there would have been a "what happens next" down that road too. That one seems worse.
Orange you glad, you're not orange?
Punch drunk or punch drunk? Violent incantations.
Human rights or rites? Morbid aspirations.
Alternative facts.
Thus ends Iran's quiet multidecadal war against America? Maybe, baby.
"Apparently the B-2 has a toilet, a bunk, a microwave and a place for some coolers of food the pilots pack for themselves."
Similar crew comforts have been a feature of many American bomber aircraft since the 1930s, starting with the PBY. The Boeing B-47, and the Convair B-58 were exceptions. In the case of the Stratojet, only the navigator-bombardier was normally free to move around. He could pass coffee and sandwiches to the pilots who were generally confined to their cockpit seats for the duration of the flight which could exceed 12 hours. The B-47 suffered a lot of fatal crashes during its rather short operational career. Pilot fatigue was a factor in several incidents. In the Hustler, nobody could move around. Each member of the three-man crew was confined to his own hermetically sealed and very tight cabin. The single pilot had no relief other than the autopilot, consequently fatigue was a continuing issue during the Hustler's short career as well. Accommodating human factors increases everything else, but economizing tends to cost lives, thus the bunk bed, the fridge, the microwave, and the throne.
"Thus ends Iran's quiet multidecadal war against America?"
I'm going on record right now saying that the satellite images that I've seen of the Qom facility show it remarkably intact. Bombs were dropped NEAR it, but not ON it. The major structure wasn't even scratched.
The Trump Administration is lying about how successful this mission was. It does not appear to have been a complete success and their characterization of the results is probably going to come back to haunt some people.
" a Ceausescu solution to the problem. It's going to be more complicated than that. The people we'd like to have govern Iran are not currently in a position to do so. "
serious question:
back in the day, DIDN'T the Iranian People rise up?
and weren't they About to overthrow their leaders?
and didn't Barrack O'Bama promise (and Provide) assistance to the Iranian leaders to help them squash the uprising?
"During the 2009 Iranian uprising, known as the Green Movement, President Obama faced criticism for his cautious response, as he prioritized a nuclear deal over supporting the protesters. In hindsight, he admitted that not backing the movement was a mistake, as it was a missed opportunity to support the democratic aspirations of the Iranian people."
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-24/why-obama-let-iran-s-green-revolution-fail
where would we be? if Barrack hadn't supported Islamic Theocracy?
"Thus ends Iran's quiet multidecadal war against America?"
This is worrisome. May have waited too long.
because he's evil, its in its nature
Yancey, when Joe Six Pack is paying far more at the pump all summer, I am sure he will find great solace in the fact Rubio made a quip you enjoyed.
Funny how the natural inclination is to only question the accuracy of the second statement rather than the first, when either the first or second could be the deflection, or even both or neither. If we were at war with Iran, it would look a lot different If we are at war with the nuclear program, it would look just like this.
As for oil, currently, thanks to Trump, OPEC is in our corner. 80% of Iranian oil goes to China at discount prices. Win/Win.
yes John Kerry, who colluded with the Iranian regime from 2016-2018,
Mark - do not recall your complaints of the super high inflation during the Crook Joe years.
"Just another one of the USA's mindless "wars" done on behalf of Israel or some dumb desire to be the world's policeman."
A rather simple minded assessment, IMAO. The Saudis and the other Gulf States were just as concerned as the Israelis over an Iranian bomb, to the point that Saudis made it clear back during the Obama administration that the existence of an Iranian bomb would cause the Kingdom to seek nuclear weapons as well, not an idle threat given the likelihood that Saudi could probably buy everything required from Pakistan.
We don't know who was consulted or when, but I suggest this issue was a major point of discussion during Trump's visit five weeks back.
“DD Driver is utterly flummoxed”
DeeDee is usually bumfuzzled, let alone flummoxed.
it took wikileaks to show us how concerned the Gulf States were
If I take your car keys away because you are drunk, it doesn't mean I stole your car, even if your drunk-ass girlfriend says I did.
Cruz is also a stupid Christian Zionist who asserts "the bible" commands we "worship Israel".
Why the quotes around worship Israel, RCOCEAN II? Are those Cruz's words yours?
it's what fits on his cue card,
Again - "Zionist" is propaganda.
btw- and I detest the word "Zionist"---- but if Zionist = support for Israel - then I am one. and FU.
"I've seen of the Qom facility show it remarkably intact."
Any surface facility is a siting duck for the U.S. or Israel. Easily destroyed now that Iranian defenses are nearly nonexistent.
JD Vance: "We do not want war with Iran. We actually want peace."
And, we've never been at war with Iran. Peace is our profession
According to the Althouse commentariat — we’ve always been at war with Iran.
The Iranians will greet us as liberators.
I’m sure someone has an old “mission accomplished” banner somewhere.
"Yancey, when Joe Six Pack is paying far more at the pump all summer, I am sure he will find great solace in the fact Rubio made a quip you enjoyed."
The Keystone pipeline would have been delivering almost 1M barrels a day to the US by now.
"when Joe Six Pack is paying far more at the pump"
This is what the left wants. They should be thanking Trump instead of whining like little bitches.
https://twitchy.com/samj/2025/06/22/we-bet-david-frum-regrets-this-piece-now-trump-always-chickens-out-lol-n2414583
https://x.com/CynicalPublius/status/1936829252537860563
Normally in an armed conflict, diplomacy asserts itself and face-saving room is allowed to facilitate a peaceful solution. But Iran is adamant today that this will only deepen their resolve to exterminate Israel and the 'Great Satan', the US. I wonder if this was anticipated, and if Trump has decided that no face-saving is called for, only utter and complete defeat and replacement of leadership, with controls, a-la WWII. You pretty much have to do this when somebody doesn't know they're whipped, kind of like the boxing match between Dragline and Cool Hand Luke. The next week or two is going to be very interesting.
"This is what the left wants."
That's what I thought. That's what they say, at least.
“Yancey, when Joe Six Pack is paying far more at the pump all summer, I am sure he will find great solace in the fact Rubio made a quip you enjoyed.”
Which we started doing as soon as Biden was installed. For no good reason whatsoever. Try harder.
Great news from Vlads team on the Lord's day. Now Vlad can play chess with the pieces on the board from afar. Playing chess against the dumbest most criminal president in US history.Brilliant Lord, protect your children and have mercy on those about to die! Oligarch Konstantin Malofeev, who runs propaganda empire Tsargrad, demanded: “It's high time we helped Tehran with satellite intelligence, air defence, and missiles.” He accused Trump of mocking Putin by “pretending to be peacekeepers” in the Ukraine conflict. Demanding military support for Iran, he declared: “Two can play this game. Fate is giving us a historic chance.
"It's ridiculous how much smarter he is than her."
A thought that ran through everybody's head in 2024, including those who voted for her.
Its irrelevant what Saudi Arabia wants. The USA doesn't bomb countries because Saudia Arabia doesn't like them. We didn't bomb Iran and demand regime change because of Saudi Arabia, which has never publically supported Regime change or bombing Iran.
And if we dont want Saudi Arabia to have nukes, they wont have nukes. No matter who has nukes. They're completely tied to the USA sphere of influence. And funny that the Saudis aren't supposedly threatened by Israel's nukes.
Just another derailment.
I have to laugh at the “regime change/WWIII/boots on the ground” hystericizing of Kaka and others. The lesson of the last couple weeks is that Iran’s nuclear program can be attacked almost at will, without any of the other miring bullshit.
Peachy, it just may well be that Trump just asked Biden to hold his beer so to speak.
And Republicans will still believe what trump says about complete success and destruction. From the guy who lies everytime HE SPEAKS Heightened treat in US, no duh!. Schools,churches,children these are favorite targets of the ones with all the power (bibi and Gaza eg) we JUST HAD to do another mid east thing right,,with the country right next door with 3oo plus nukes ready to go.. THIS IS HOW BULLIES NEGOTIATE, ITS NOT ART OF THE DEAL...XI creaming now,,US can do the bombs ,lets do TAIWAN and see why Vlad did his thing, its what power people do. Straight of Hormuz to close thats wonderful news.. We lift up those about to die(just like the gladiators said before getting snuffed... :(
"Peachy, it just may well be that Trump just asked Biden to hold his beer so to speak."
Kaka's already got the sky-rocketing inflation market cornered (ask him how that's going for him). You need to find your own hobby horse.
Vice President JD Vance shrugged off a senior Russian official’s threat to provide Iran with nukes on Sunday morning, telling ABC News’ Jonathan Karl that it was a “bizarre response” to the United States’ Saturday evening strike on three Iranian nuclear facilities.
“This morning, the Russian reaction caught my eye. Dmitry Medvedev, of course the former president, prime minister of Russia, now the deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council, said, ‘The enrichment of nuclear material, and now we can say it outright, the future production of nuclear weapons will continue. A number of countries are ready to directly supply Iran with their own nuclear warheads,'” noted Karl before asking: “What do you make of that Russian response? And are they off base? I mean, they’re saying that the nuclear program in Iran is still well underway.” Okay time to see whose got the biggest D%&k. US is fat and sloppy and Rocky was never given a chance. This is what we thought in 65-72 in military and we ran off the rooftops failing badly 52000 dead..
For some subtlety on the matter, closer to Trump actually, is Derrida on taking sides:
``What appears to me unacceptable in the ``strategy'' (in terms of weapons, practices, ideology, rhetoric, discourse, and so on) of the ``bin Laden effect'' is not only the cruelty, the disregard for human life, the disrespect for the law, for women, the use of what is worst in technocapitalist modernity for the purposes of religious fanaticism. No, it is, above all, the fact that such actions and such discourse _open onto no future and, in my view, have no future_. If we are to put any faith in the perfectibility of public space and of the world juridico-political scene, of the ``world'' itself, then there is, it seems to me, _nothing good_ to be hoped for from that quarter. What is being proposed, at least implicitly, is that all captialist and modern technoscientific forces be put in the service of an interpretation, itself dogmatic, of the Islamic revelation of the One. Nothing of what has been so laboriously secularized in even the nontheological form of sovereignty (...), none of this seems to have any place whatsoever in the discourse ``bin Laden.'' That is why, in this unleashing of violence without name, if I had to take one of the two sides and choose in a binary situation, well I would. Despite my very strong reservations about the American, indeed European, political posture, about the ``international terrorist'' coalition, despite all the de facto betrayals, all the failures to live up to democracy, international law, and the very international institutions that the states of this ``coalition'' themselves founded and supported up to a certain point, I would take the side of the camp that, in principle, by right of law, leaves a perspective open to perfectibility in the name of the ``political,'' democracy, international law, international institutions, and so forth. Even if this ``in the name of'' is still merely an assertion and a purely verbal committment. Even in its most cynical mode, such an assertion still lets resonate within it an invincible promise. I don't hear any such promise coming from ``bin Laden,'' at least not one in this world.''
``Autoimmunity: Real and Symbolic Suicides'' _Philosophy in a Time of Terror_ p.113
He preserves the promise of a future in the name of political action even if the political action we have is corrupt, against a system open to no future at all.
I think the Russians are just talking out of their hat. However, it would be interesting if Putin told Trump: "Y'know somehow Iran might get some enriched uranium and we could stop that, if you'll stop supporting Ukraine".
Wonder what Trump would say, because despite all the jabber, we are still sending Ukraine Billions in aid.
OK, I just took a long drive, and there is a ray of hope, in my mind, and it came to me after hearing the press secretary make an obviously ridiculous statement, that Iran's nuclear program was obliterated, but, as I often say, these people are not as stupid as they'd like us to believe. And this statement by Vance backs up my theory.
What if Trump just triple-crossed the neocons? If he did, then I will have to admit that the man is a stable genius. Only time will tell. What if I am right and that Iran's "nuclear program" was only a pretext for regime change in Iran that we have been planning ever since the Iranians threw out our CIA stooge in 1979? The statement that we have knocked out Iran's nuclear weapons program "once and for all" is laughable, but what if the real audience is Netanyahu and Lindsay Graham? What if Trump is saying: "Stop your regime change war on Iran right now. The justification is gone." This would really piss off the John Boltons of the world, that's for sure. They have lost their pretext. There is collateral damage, of course, the Nonproliferation Treaty is dead.
Iran likely won't retaliate, at this time, maybe they won't even cut off Europe's oil supply, they are not strong enough yet, but what it will do is drive them into Russia's arms, figuratively and literally. The Iranians, well, the Persians and the Russians have had their conflicts over the centuries, kind of like the Spanish and the Dutch, distrust abides for a long time, but Holland and Spain have gotten over it, finally, and so may Iran and Russia. Russia offered them air defense integration a year ago, and Iran turned them down so as not to piss off the Americans. Look for that deal to be back on. Obviously Iran's home grown missile defense is no match for the West.
Another reason is that Israel was not doing as well in the war as the media claims, and they needed it stopped.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/top-netanyahu-aide-says-iran-still-has-thousands-of-ballistic-missiles/
So for these reasons, Trump decided to remove the reason for the war.
Either way, if Trump managed to use the only means he had at his disposal to stop the neocons from creating another huge mess, this time in Iran, well, good for him.
It's still fog of war, though.
Personally, I hope Pakistan, China or Russia just GIVES iran a few tons of enriched uranium. Then we could stop all this nonsense. Iran with a bomb isn't going to "blow up the world!!!". They aren't going to commit national suicide anymore than Israel would.
Given that iran is part of uranium, don't they deserve it? Uranium? NO, Iranium
The real hope of the neo-cons is regime change. Putting a Pro-Israel (not pro-USA) government in Iran has been their objective. The nuclear bombing kerfuffle is just a way to achieve that. Get the USA to bomb Iran over Nuclear weapons. The Iranians lose their heads and attack US bases and ships. Then its all-out war with GI's marching into Tehran. Or more likely, the Iranian military overthrowing the Government and suing for peace.
A lot of Never Trumpers--Dinky included--root for the USA to fail. Whatever Trump does is wrong, wrong, wrong. That's simply tiresome. I mean their position has been made clear, no need to repeat it endlessly.
Starting July California has a new $0.45 tax on gas. So let's remember that when people point at the higher gas prices.
I give Reagan a pass, since there was already a civil war or gang war going on in post-Somoza Nicaragua. If somebody wants to argue that the contras were a CIA operation they may have a point, but not enough of one to be entirely convincing.
Didn't some Americans say during WWI that we were fighting the Nazis, rather than the Germans? Maybe we wanted to go on thinking of Germans as cultured people, rather than savage barbarians, or maybe there were just too many Germans-Americans. Nicht wahr, Frau Althaus?
Cruz could argue rings around Carlson. At least twentysomething Cruz could out argue twentysomething Carlson. Ted's gotten lazy since he got reelected.
Last comment. My wife wants to go out and "live life". Maybe do some parading. Jon Stewart had an interesting little clip on Youtube. He attacked MTG and other MAGA's for wanting to have avoid war with Iran, while wanting "Civil war" in LA.
To Stewart that was just Cccrazzee (insert laught track). Which means Stewart and many leftist's true position is that Troops in Iran are Ok with them. While Troops to guard the USA border or enforce law and order is bad and unacceptable.
Nice if someone could ask Stewart why guarding the borders is Israel is so much more important to him, then guarding the USA borders. Is it because he's only a patriot of one country?
"the Nonproliferation Treaty is dead."
I haven't read it, but I'm doubting it allowed Iran to build a bomb. Seems to me, it was dead long before last night.
A great book about the conflict between the Persian Empire and the Russian Empire is "The Sabers of Paradise," BTW. It also provides much of the source material for Dune and Star Wars (The Light Sabers of Paradise.)
Oh, I forget, history is irrelevant to today, so no need to bother with it.
Speaking of not bothering with stuff, anybody who thinks that I ever once supported mandatory vaccinations for COVID is just making stuff up or is confused. In fact you may recall my disgust with Trudeau over his treatment of the Canadian truckers, a dispute that was entirely about mandatory vaccinations, is not worth my time.
Here is one comment I made that I was able to find from the time period, not going to spend all day on people lying about me:
Jaq said...
"Courts deciding Science are a joke."
I am sorry, but is it "science" that has dictated vaccine mandates? No, it's politicians, and they are not based on science, they are based on politics, what the court is doing here is limiting the power of politicians to mandate "science."
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2021/11/on-dubious-assumption-that-mandate-does.html#comment-form
Medvedev's remarks were worthy of discourse on The View. Arming insane religious fanatics with nukes is in no one's interest. Certainly not Russia's.
If he and his boss think their country has nothing to lose, there are a lot of wealthy and powerful Russians who may remind them otherwise.
One thing is clear this morning. A line in the sand is, once again, a fucking line in the sand. Those who persist in believing Donald Trump is "all hat..." should maybe reconsider.
This all started with Truman calling Korea a Police Action
Apparently our military action in Iran was not only a continuation of our conversation with China but Russia as well.
Putin’s recent statements at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (June 18-21, 2025):
“Israel today is almost a Russian-speaking country. A large number of people from the USSR live there — Moscow takes this into account.” He further elaborated that nearly two million Russian-speaking people live in Israel, which influences Russia’s cautious stance in the conflict.
This comment was made in response to questions about why Russia has not provided more direct military assistance to Iran against Israel. Putin emphasized that the presence of this large Russian-speaking community—estimated at around 1.5 to 2 million, many of whom are immigrants from the former Soviet Union—means Russia must consider their safety in its foreign policy decisions. He stated, “We take that into account,” indicating that the potential risk to these individuals is a factor in Russia’s reluctance to escalate involvement in the Israel-Iran conflict.
So sweet. Russia wants to jump on the Trump train. Welcome aboard.
Shooter/suicide bomber at a church in Damascus, Syria
Shooter unalived at a church in Wayne, Michigan
https://www.youtube.com/live/EVkXSeH0n_Q?feature=shared
"Mark said...
Peachy, it just may well be that Trump just asked Biden to hold his beer so to speak."
Jokes on you, Trump doesn't drink beer.
rhhardin said...
For some subtlety on the matter, closer to Trump actually, is Derrida on taking sides:
**********
And succinctly put, at that!
SNORT
Even AI spins its gears trying to make sense of that logorrheic stuff.
Corksoakin’ Wisconsin liberal cheaters…
https://x.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1936812345902465525
Itza wonder his dog gets fed, effinayright!
Lazarus said…
“Didn't some Americans say during WWI that we were fighting the Nazis, rather than the Germans?”
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
effinayright said...
FormerLawClerk said...
"Thus ends Iran's quiet multidecadal war against America?"
I'm going on record right now saying that the satellite images that I've seen of the Qom facility show it remarkably intact. Bombs were dropped NEAR it, but not ON it. The major structure wasn't even scratched.
***************
So you're a intelligence photo analyst now?
It's been explained ad infinitum that the Qom/Fordow site is almost entirely buried deep inside a mountain. You can find pics on-line showing 6 big holes in the ground where the MOPS hit. Near the entrances.
True, we will have to wait for more detailed reports on the damage, but you don't use MOPS to hit above-ground targets.
For analysis of the befores/afters, go here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjQO6XH67fU
I will defend Tim in VT on the vaccine mandates- he most definitely was not support of them. My disagreements with him were from previous year on lockdowns over Covid, a disagreement that arose primarily on his side due to health differences between to the two of us and our family members.
"So you're a intelligence photo analyst now?"
We are all intelligence photo analysts now.
I have eyes. I can see very large shiny buildings steps away from where it's claimed three 30,000 pound bombs were exploded.
The building hasn't been scratched and still stands, mere yards away from where the Trumpers are saying they destroyed everything.
They're lying.
"Didn't some Americans say during WWI that we were fighting the Nazis, rather than the Germans?"
Yeah - hated those WWI Nazis!! They were the wurst!!
At Fordow, the visible ejecta in the satellite photos tells the story.
Opacity is low in the VNIR band, indicating a dust-only loft, no oxidized blast pattern, no epithermal signature (no, you can't see those IR photos, but I can), no heat venting, no large debris field.
This means the warheads expended most of their energy in the overburden - in other words rock. There are no concentric spalling rings, no radial fractures exceeding 50 meters, and no post-strike IR bloom to indicate a breach of the core’s thermal envelope.
The shallow subsidence patch at the upper center measures less than 10 meters across and under half a meter deep, nowhere near the magnitude required to indicate a cascade hall collapse.
There simply is no evidence that a bomb has penetrated the underground facility and all of the above-ground parts of the facility are completely intact.
That's what the satellite imagery shows.
Imagine a bubble of air under rocks. If you blow up a bomb in that bubble, the rocks subside into the airspace. That's detectable on the surface. Yet there is no damage of the expected type in these photos. (The US has extensive experience studying the effects of these bombs, so we know what we're looking for).
For reference, go on YouTube and look at underground nuclear experiments and what happens on the surface when they go off. You'll get some idea of what sort of damage can be seen in successful detonations.
The Trump Administration did not destroy Fordow.
They're lying.
Maybe China picked up Iran’s enriched uranium last week. Remember those mysterious 747s?
RCOCEANII: Iran with a bomb isn't going to "blow up the world!!!". They aren't going to commit national suicide anymore than Israel would.
Yeah. Why would anyone blow themselves up just to kill a Jew?
I think your hatred of Israel has made you as delusional as Obama and his cronies.
"For reference, go on YouTube and look at underground nuclear experiments and what happens on the surface when they go off. You'll get some idea of what sort of damage can be seen in successful detonations."
The MOP used has a yield of 2.67 tons of TNT. Not sure it's an apt comparison.
"The MOP used has a yield of 2.67 tons of TNT. Not sure it's an apt comparison."
As to scale, of course. I was speaking of the underlying principle. There are well-established procedures for analyzing expected bomb damage.
"Joe Six Pack is paying far more at the pump all summer."
That certainly would be awful. Thank goodness the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is untouched and available.
Interesting that Trump is not using a “paradiastole”. That’s easy for you to say.
Interesting. You mean to tell me the military didn’t tell Trump it might take several bunker buster drops to get the job done? I find that hard to believe.
Did Trump order the bombing run just to get Israel off his back? The more we know, the less we know.
As the US has been a net exporter of petroleum for quite a few years now the petroleum reserve doesn't have the practical justification it used to when the US was a large importer. The SPR is an artifact of the oil crisis, which happened in a very different world. There is no pressing reason to prepare for a time when imports may be restricted.
Some other countries could certainly use their own SPR's of course, China being one of them.
The SPR is an obsolete political talking point, not a vital item of public policy.
"Joe Six Pack is paying far more at the pump all summer."
China has more to lose than anyone regarding petroleum. The collapse of the Iranian regime or its power, as previously known, is unfavorable for China. It indirectly suggests an expansion of American influence.
"That certainly would be awful. Thank goodness the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is untouched and available."
So you are guaranteeing no rise in price at the pump.
We will revisit this, no doubt.
The SPR will have little effect on gas station prices if world prices jump, because in effect it will be an attempt to manipulate the global price. Good luck with that, the SPR is a drop in that bucket. US petroleum producers will raise their prices to match what they could get through exporting petroleum or its products. The only way to limit that would be far more interventionist policies, like an export ban or price controls.
If anyone wants to see where Former Law Clerk, Current-Ditz-in-Residence PLAGIARIZED his learned analysis of the Fordow strike, here it is:
https://x.com/iwasnevrhere_/status/1936795685111656696
Written by an unknown named Thomas Keith---who somehow has many, many technical details he apparently gleaned from looking at before/after images on YouTube, all the way to claiming he has access to Infra Red images:
"Opacity is low in the VNIR band, indicating a dust-only loft, no oxidized blast pattern, no epithermal signature (no, you can't see those IR photos, but I can), no heat venting, no large debris field."
(For the record VNIR refers to light we can see with our eyes, and Near Infra Red, which we can't see. Keith has magical eyes!)
In short, it's bullshit, bullshit all the way down, from the learned Law Clerk, doesn't understand a word of what he plagiarized.
Meantime, CNN has a piece on the damage done to Fordow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKHz11FhAEs
effinayright - good job. I was wondering how someone with such (implied) access and credentials had ended up here.
"So you are guaranteeing no rise in price at the pump."
How'd you get that from what he said? Lame.
Trump's impatience and short attention span are already causing him to post about regime change on Truth Social.
"Yeah. Why would anyone blow themselves up just to kill a Jew?"
You forgot the the teenage girl eyeroll.
Anyway, I realize you're doing derailment and "pushback", but this is so dumb, I'll respond.
Assertion: Iran wont commit national suicide by attacking another Nuclear power. Just like Israel wouldnt.
Reponse: Well, some suicide bombers kill themselves to kill Jews.
Rebuttal: Nations aren't individual people. Further, National leaders show a remarkable desire to live rather than committing suicide. Further, the use of nuclear weapons to commit "national suicide" just to kill someone they don't like would need to be approved by a fairly large number of high level patriotic people.
If you still believe the Iranian leadership would commit sucide and wipe out their entire country and themselves just to "kill Jews", then you'd have to believe that the Iranian leadership is somehow uniquely crazy and evil. Unlike say Pakistan or Russia.
Its always amusing how ethnocentric Jews are. Not only do they think they're most facsinating group in the world, they think everyone is equally obsessed. And the ones that hate them would wipe out their entire country just to "kill jews". I think Iran's leadership has more on their plate then just "what about the Jews?".
"We're not at war with Iran."
It’s more of a 'Special Military Operation'.
@effinayright: FWIW
OSINTtechnical is a nice source of imagery.
https://x.com/Osinttechnical
"Iran likely won't retaliate, at this time, maybe they won't even cut off Europe's oil supply, they are not strong enough yet, but what it will do is drive them into Russia's arms, figuratively and literally."
IRC, the Russians had a temporary military base in Iran. But the Iranians revoked their permission. Iran also declined a Russian offer to join their alliance (CSTO) in 2007.
In a normal times, the Russians and Iranians would be rivals. However, the USA with its love for Israel, and hatred for Putin, has driven the two into each other arms. Iran, for whatver reason, seems to have been reluctant to form a military alliance. It makes sense for the 2 countries to put their historical rivalry aside, and form a defensive alliance. But the Iranians may decide that China is a better partner. Nuclear material for Oil seems like a natural trade.
"Meantime, CNN has a piece on the damage done to Fordow."
And we all know how trustworthy CNN is.
Why I hold white leftist progressive western females in such low regard.
gas yesterday at CIRKLE K where I always get gas, yesterday 2.98 today 3.25 I'll be watching this closely fortunately I only drive for pleasure so gets too high i'll just stay home, just like we cut back on shopping etc. Its easy! I survived 80"s gas and lines etc ,trump has to go aways to meet that criteria but we'll see when tariffs kick in, IF ANYONE CAN DO IT (RAISE THEM PRICES) HE CAN! STRAIGHT OF HORMUZ CLOSING SHOULD BE DANDY!
Dinky - we are very concerned about you and the gas price issue.
We note that ZERO leftists give a crap about women under the thumb of Islamic theocratic tyranny.
You enjoy your navel gazing at the pump.
"Iran has no legal authority to block sea traffic through Hormuz, and any attempts by its navy to bar entry to the strait would likely be met by a strong response."
HEH
Fox News just had Mike Spent …. er ….. Pence on. Good grief!!
Oil has barely moved, and none of what happened over the weekend has had any effect on what was produced at US refineries last week. If you are paying more at the pump; then look at your state policies, such as California. Trump can't fix stupid state policies. Well he could, but you probably don't want him dropping MOPs on your state capital.
Let's see, cheap gas vs a nuclear-disarmed Iran. Such a choice, such a choice …
The extent of any increase will likely to depend on whether Tehran retaliates with attacks on oil infrastructure or shipping in Strait of Hormuz.
Oil prices have risen approximately 10% since Israel's attack on Iran 10 days ago but have not yet surpassed $80 per barrel, primarily because the region's oil supply remains unaffected.
If Iranian crude exports are disrupted, increased production from OPEC+ and existing global inventories should ensure sufficient oil market supply, provided the Strait of Hormuz remains open.
yes, their rolodex is kind of shopworn, so the White House notified Schumer and Jeffries, the latter didn't pick up, because polishing yo yos,
At the Inquirer, Will Bunch got right to the problem:
The truth is that Donald Trump is not, in his blackened, Big Mac-clogged heart, a warmonger. Trump is also not a peacemaker. His attitude about war and peace, life and death, and policies that reverberate for 340 million Americans, 91 million Iranians, and the rest of the world centers on One Big Idea: What’s in it for Trump? His only ideology is toxic narcissism.
This is not a time for Americans to “rally ‘round the flag” — not for a war being waged on behalf of one American and not the other 339,999,999. This is a moment for resistance and for accountability, in whatever ways are possible today, and more forcefully once the people can take our country back. And it starts with this basic understanding: that Trump is revealing the fallacy behind “strongman” rule.
He bombed Iran because he is a weak man.
https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/donald-trump-bombs-iran-20250622.html
@gadfly: "...Will Bunch got right to the problem..."
Yes, I think I can see that: He can't write, and has a highly constrained imagination?
J D has a golden tongue too. Looks likely he will be DJT’s successor.
knight ridder really has gone to the dogs, isn't it, sometimes bold action is required like the strikes on syria in 2017, one of them, took out a wagner corps company,
gadfly said...
At the Inquirer, Will Bunch got right to the problem:
[A rant by an idiot}
He bombed Iran because he is a weak man.
I am not surprised that one of the dumbest people on this board found Will Bunch's stupid rant to be persuasive.
I find it interesting that the leftists are falling apart so completely and just losing their shit.
The best part is that even Russia and China are laying low. They can see what is coming.
These idiots are going to fling poop right up to the point where an elected Persian government in Iran signs the Abraham accords.
Oil’s up $2.25 bbl. Everything you wanted to know about the relationship between crude and gasoline:
https://commodity.com/energy/rbob-gasoline/
Orwell's "politics of the english language' was not supposed to be be a how to manual, but a warning
Kakistocracy said...
The extent of any increase will likely to depend on whether Tehran retaliates with attacks on oil infrastructure or shipping in Strait of Hormuz.
Oil prices have risen approximately 10% since Israel's attack on Iran 10 days ago but have not yet surpassed $80 per barrel, primarily because the region's oil supply remains unaffected.
If Iranian crude exports are disrupted, increased production from OPEC+ and existing global inventories should ensure sufficient oil market supply, provided the Strait of Hormuz remains open.
And Trump just got done talking to all of the OPEC countries and had a major rapprochement with all of Iran's neighbors.
They all want the Mullahs gone and they are doing everything they can to make it happen.
Almost as if there was a plan.
Satellite image analysis here confirms my previous posts:
https://imgur.com/a/i6FIv70
This imagery provided by Open Source Center, which uses publicly accessible satellite imagery that anyone can subscribe to.
Oh oh. Althouse has drifted off the Trump Plantation on this one issue. This is not going to look well in the comments section.
"The SPR is an artifact of the oil crisis, which happened in a very different world. There is no pressing reason to prepare for a time when imports may be restricted. "
You focus entirely on our domestic needs. And, while that was the original intent, we do live, as you say, in a very different world. The SPR could be used to increase the world's supply should the flow in the ME be restricted for a short period. I find that a far better use than pumping it out at a loss just to help the Biden handlers try to hold costs down for domestic political power.
You can be guaranteed like a magic eightball, bunch will always be wrong,
"So you are guaranteeing no rise in price at the pump."
Wow Mark.... reading comprehension, identifying obvious sarcasm.... strike two.
The touchstone for analyzing the bombing and its effects seems to be that it was Trump who ordered it. It is just as silly to think Trump is always wrong as it is to think that Trump is always right.
The SPR is a money battery.
Think of it as you would a water battery. Water is pumped upwards when electricity demand is lowest, then released when demand is highest.
That is what the SPR is ... the water in this case being money. The SPR is filled when gas prices are depressed and released when they are high. This creates money.
“And Trump just got done talking to all of the OPEC countries and had a major rapprochement with all of Iran's neighbors.
They all want the Mullahs gone and they are doing everything they can to make it happen.
Almost as if there was a plan.”
Yeah, we see those meetings in a completely different light now.
"Oh oh. Althouse has drifted off the Trump Plantation on this one issue."
You want to explain what you mean?
If you look back everything can be seen in a different light. Greenland, Canada, the Gulf of America. Maybe it was all misdirection. What really happened: Trump went to the Arab states, discussed Iran with them, came back, gave Iran 60 days And then proceeded to eliminate the nuclear threat. As far as I see, zero Arab states have condemned US action in Iran - not even the Houthis. It seems everyone knew this was going to happen.
lone justice is a bit of a masochistic butt munch, ain’t he.
It seems only Pakistan and China have condemned the bombings. Maybe there’s a few more countries on the list like California and Massachusetts but so far I haven’t found any.
I don't understand his point. I don't see Althouse expressing an opinion one way or the other in the post.
how now dinky dau
the clues always evade him
so excremental
Paradiastole is just normal and necessary political PR. Yawn. The Dems are running through a version of this by reframing everything Trump does in negative terms - Hitler, fascist, norms, constitutional crisis, and now kings. Yawn again.
Meanwhile, the Liberal government in Canada wants Alberta to leave its oil and gas in the ground.
Have not heard Medvedev's name in a long long time.
He was the Russian leader Obama use to talk to. You know - "more flexibility AFTER the election" talk.
Now - Putin says one thing and Medvedev is saying something else - very dark and sinister.
"Earlier today, Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of Russia’s Security Council and Vladimir Putin’s right-hand man, let the cat out of the bag:"
quote:
“What have the Americans accomplished with their nighttime strikes on three nuclear sites in Iran?” Medvedev questioned in a post on social media. “The enrichment of nuclear material — and, now we can say it outright, the future production of nuclear weapons — will continue. A number of countries are ready to directly supply Iran with their own nuclear warheads.”
Obama's bud.
According to Grok, only counties which condemned our actions.
Chile
China
Cuba
Hamas
Oman
Pakistan
Russia
Syria
Turkey
Venezuela
Es todo.
he rides a large squirrel
medvedev came from Gazprom, so roughly an analog to Dick Cheney, and,Halliburton, which used to be the killing word,
he holds much the same position in the siloviki with Sochin of Rostneft, although one represented St Petersburg the other moskva
Meanwhile, the Liberal government in Canada wants Alberta to leave its oil and gas in the ground.
Meanwhile, the Liberal government in Canada fails to understand that the only way to grow the economy is to dig stuff up out of the ground and export it.... You cant export hugs and kisses.
FormerLawClerk said...
Satellite image analysis here confirms my previous posts:
https://imgur.com/a/i6FIv70
This imagery provided by Open Source Center, which uses publicly accessible satellite imagery that anyone can subscribe to.
************
You dullard, you are showing the same image that we've all seen already.
The CNN piece shows the before/after shots; the military guy explains the details.
You are so fucking STUPID not to understand that the shiny building was NOT the target, but the deeply buried underground facilities where the centrifuges were.
You can plainly see SIX holes positioned over the buried site. They are NOT at the tunnel entrances, which Iran tried to bury with dirt brought in by trucks just a few days ago. That too can be seen on other pics.
And you REALLY have to be brain-dead to claim CNN is faking it, faking it for Trump.
Finally, I caught you plagiarizing. Plagiarizing a bogus X posting that's obviously a hoax, that you are too thick to recognize as such. That alone should get you banned from this site.
well one rogue nuclear program, can't look down on another
"btw- and I detest the word "Zionist"---- but if Zionist = support for Israel - then I am one. and FU."
Peachy, the term "Zionist" was invented by the Zionists. It was the name chosen by a group of European, Asian and American Jews who had decided that there should be a Jewish homeland, which they then decided should be located in what was then called Palestine. So, yeah, it does, indeed, mean support for Israel. First for its creation, and now for its continuation. And in many cases, for its continued expansion. So, how big are you willing to help Israel to become? Should it include Gaza, the West Bank, Southern Lebanon, Western Syria ....
as if Zionists has not become shorthand for Jew, see Stalin or Abu Ammar the Circasian, Sabri al Banna et al,
Sorry to post again on this but I am shocked President Trump got so little pushback. Remember GW working so hard for his coalition of the willing. Such a triumph! Months and months of diplomacy. All on a day’s work for Trump.
after the slaughter by the Black Hundreds in Russia, the rise of Karl Lueger, in Austria, and Drumont in France, precursor to the
Cagoule, well a certain consciousness did attach,
@Eva Marie - Pretty short list. Interesting.
(someone should tell Grok Hamas is not a country.)
Sorry to post again on this but I am shocked President Trump got so little pushback.
The only real pushback he's getting is from fifth-column leftists here at home.
@Original Mike: lol Grok knew. I just omitted that part for brevity.
Jupiter- Israelites have been located on that land for far far longer than the Syrian Palestinian settlements.
Some history. From 1947 forward.
Even North Korea stayed silent. On June 19th the Foreign Ministry said the US was “fanning up the flames of war”. And on June 18, Kim Jong Un said “Iran is not alone in this war. The North Korean army has been brought to the highest level of combat readiness. We do not abandon our allies in difficult times.”
But silence on June 22.
Lets flip it - and say the Palestinians are allowed to wipe Israel off the map - kill every Jew and Inhabitant there- and the whole of Israel becomes Palestine.
oooo joy! Anther male dominated Islamic Theocracy.
Most the Arab nations in the vicinity cannot stand the Palestinians - as they are mostly all assholes.
JAORE said..."Wow Mark.... reading comprehension, identifying obvious sarcasm.... strike two."
He either has poor reading comprehension or he's setting you up to pull a fast one down the road ("We will revisit this, no doubt.")
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/22/us/politics/iran-uranium-stockpile-whereabouts.html
“A day after President Trump declared that Iran’s nuclear program had been “completely and totally obliterated” by American bunker-busting bombs and a barrage of missiles, the actual state of the program seemed far more murky, with senior officials conceding they did not know the whereabouts of Iran’s stockpile of near-bomb-grade uranium.
But there was also evidence, according to two Israeli officials with knowledge of the intelligence, that Iran had moved equipment and uranium from the site in recent days. And there was growing evidence that the Iranians, attuned to Mr. Trump’s repeated threats to take military action, had removed 400 kilograms, or roughly 880 pounds, of uranium enriched to 60 percent purity. That is just below the 90 percent that is usually used in nuclear weapons.”
And you war mongers were sooo excited. A waste of millions of American dollars to bomb empty sites.
NYT says "with senior officials conceding they did not know the whereabouts of Iran’s stockpile of near-bomb-grade uranium."
Source, NYT?
Iran state media is saying the same thing.
From the same article. Thanks for posting the link:
“In fact, there was only so much the Iranians could save. The giant centrifuges that spin at supersonic speeds, purifying uranium, are piped together and bolted to the cement floor. One U.S. official said it would have been unrealistic to completely move equipment out of Fordo after the conflict with Israel began.
The official added that historical documents about the nuclear program were buried in the bowels of the site, likely complicating any efforts in reconstituting it. In coming days, both the Iranians and intelligence agencies expect to learn more about the Natanz enrichment site, which is older, larger and less well protected than Fordo. It was struck by the Israelis repeatedly, and they destroyed an aboveground enrichment center and disrupted the electrical system. Mr. Grossi later said he believed the interruption of the electrical supply could have sent the centrifuges spinning out of control, probably destroying all of them.
How long it would take the Iranians to repair and replace that equipment is unknown; it would probably stretch for years.
via Insty:
"For an activist class famous obsessed with being “on the right side of history” and who love to condemn others for “the company you keep”, it is a masterclass in hypocrisy that would be ingenious if it wasn’t so dopily unwitting.
It is obvious to everybody – except them — where I am going with this. The activist left has been so consumed by its hatred of Israel and Donald Trump that it has ended up on the side of Iran.
And not even just Iran, but the Iranian regime who the Iranian people themselves despise for decades of brutal oppression.
This is a government that is almost cartoonishly evil and yet somehow the most self-declaredly politically astute minds on the internet have been effortlessly goaded into backing it or its interests simply on the basis that if Israel and Trump are against it then they must be for it."
Truth.
@Inga - I don't discount for a moment that Iran may have moved their stockpile in time. Can I note that we are now agreeing that it was a stockpile to make nuclear bombs? Why does this make you feel good?
"“In fact, there was only so much the Iranians could save. The giant centrifuges that spin at supersonic speeds, purifying uranium, are piped together and bolted to the cement floor."
That lab is toast, whether or not the roof caved in. None of those centrifuges are salvageable. They will have to start over.
"Mr. Grossi later said he believed the interruption of the electrical supply could have sent the centrifuges spinning out of control, probably destroying all of them."
Those centrifuges have active braking to bring them down to speed safely. A passive coast to a stop will pass them through resonances which will tear them apart.
“Why does this make you feel good?”
Feel good? No, it makes my point that Trump should’ve listened to Tulsi Gabbard the first time when she said Iran was not building nukes, before she was forced to change the info she received from the IC.
“On March 25, Director of National Intelligence (DNI) Tulsi Gabbard delivered the U.S. Intelligence Community’s (IC) collective conclusions covering a broad swath of national security issues and geographic areas — including the threat posed by Iran and its possible development of a nuclear weapon.
“The IC continues to assess that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon and Supreme Leader Khamenei has not authorized the nuclear weapons program that he suspended in 2003,” she told the committee bluntly. Gabbard was echoing an assessment that U.S. intelligence agencies have been making since 2007.”
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