From "Wisconsin Judge Indicted on Charges That She Helped Immigrant Evade Agents/Judge Hannah C. Dugan was accused of helping an undocumented immigrant elude federal agents who were waiting to arrest him outside her courtroom" (NYT).
[E]arlier this month, more than 150 former state and federal judges signed a letter to Ms. Bondi calling the arrest of Judge Dugan an attempt to intimidate the judiciary. “This cynical effort undermines the rule of law,” that letter said, “and destroys the trust the American people have in the nation’s judges to administer justice in the courtrooms and in the halls of justice across the land.”
What is a "hall of justice" if not a courtroom?
My A.I. research shows that "Hall of Justice" is a comic-book term — a DC Comics thing:
Super Friends (TV Series, 1973–1985) —"Gathered together from the cosmic reaches of the universe, here in this great Hall of Justice, are the most powerful forces of good ever assembled: Superman, Batman and Robin, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and their associates…"
Young Justice (Animated Series, Episode 16: Fail Safe) — "The Hall of Justice. The human race must know that there are still heroes defending them - there is still hope."
Supergirl (TV Series) — "Winn: Oh, in the future they call it a Hall of Justice"/Kara: "I like that."
There's also a Hall of Justice in Mega-City One:
Dredd (2012 Film) — "Citizens in fear of the street. The gun. The gang. Only one thing fighting for order in the chaos: the men and women of the Hall of Justice."
I'm not saying that "hall of justice" is only a comic book term, just that it's a comic-book way to express the grandeur/grandiosity of the judiciary. It exalts the courts in a pompous, cornball way. The redundancy "courtrooms and... halls of justice" is, arguably, not a gaffe but a rhetorical flourish. I don't like it. It sounds silly to me, especially with the tacked-on "across the land."
There are some very conventional redundancies in legal writing — "cease and desist," "null and void," "aid and abet," "give, devise, and bequeath" — but that hardly means that one ought to pad legal writing with new redundancies.
Posts
97 comments:
Progressive justice is NOT justice. They are proving it more and more every single day.
So, if I understand it, indicting a judge for breaking the law is “a cynical effort to undermine the rule of law”
Padded egos produce padded jargon.
Good Lord. So a judge enabling an accused wife beater's escape is not "destroy[ing] the trust the American people have in the nation’s judges to administer justice."
“No one is above the law.” And of all the individuals that “we the People” have a right to expect will obey the law, judges rightly are high on that list.
Lock her up and put a camera on her 24/7. Make sure that the live feed shows up on a screen visible from the bench in every courtroom in the country, as a reminder to the rest of the judiciary.
Their Halls Of Justice are the ideal like in comic books. Not real justice with the nitty gritty of evidence , actions and legal arguments.
"So, if I understand it, indicting a judge for breaking the law is 'a cynical effort to undermine the rule of law.'"
Those making this assertion apparently do not agree the judge broke the law.
Meanwhile normal Americans see a judge breaking the law with impunity and want her prosecuted to the fullest extent. This charging seems lightly applied in the grand scheme of things. Can't we break down each of her movements that day into a separate felony a la Tish James' legal voodoo?
Lying to Federal Law Enforcement
Denial of civil rights (of the victim who was waiting patiently to testify against her abuser)
Fraud
Harboring a fugitive
Conspiracy to aid and abet unlawful flight to avoid prosecution (one count for each person she ordered to participate in her illegal scheme)
Conspiracy to obstruct justice (one count for each person she ordered to participate in her illegal scheme)
Misuse of government assets
Abuse of rights under color of authority (one count each for every witness and defendant who was denied their hearing that day)
Violation of her oath of office (one count for each separate illegal act she took that day)
Corruption by an officer of the court
I'm sure the lawyers here can add other counts to her indictment. Surely Tish can't be more creative than we are!
Hannah Dugan tried to get ICE agents to cease and desist in their efforts to detain a wanted criminal illegal alien. When that failed, Dugan aided and abetted the criminal by rendering their case in front on her null and void then gave, devised, and bequeathed an escape opportunity through her chambers.
"Progressive justice is NOT justice."
What does that even mean?
"They are proving it more and more every single day."
How?
Cookie is messing up the comments.
that hardly means that one ought to pad legal writing with new redundancies
I am exactly fourscore on the side padding this one! I even employed one of the redundancy examples in my list.
Oh Robert!
beetlejuice
Hark, the hour of 10 is sounding,
Hearts with anxious fears are bounding.
Hall of Justice, crowds surrounding,
Breathing hope and fear.
For today in this arena'm
Summoned by a stern subpoena,
Edwin, sued by Angelina,
Shortly will appear.
This woman actively shielded a wanted person and facilitated his evasion of law enforcement. This is a real crime.
So a bunch of self-important people signed a letter. That is the modern way of knowing that something is rotten, and there's an attempt to deflect attention by pretending outrage. It is an assault on the judiciary. What is missing is the acknowledgement that the assault is richly deserved, and probably long overdue, and corrective in nature. This judge needs to go down for her rank contempt for the institution, for her disrespect to the elected administration and its policies, to encourage the others.
In the next paragraph, "guardians of the rule of law" is used twice. It's a bit much, hinting at the Guardians of the Galaxy.
I’m waiting to hear Dugan’s ultimate refutation of the Trump Administration: I am da Law!! delivered Stallone-style, complete with the helmet and shoulder pauldrons. That’s a joke, but don’t laugh. That’s her only defense outside non compos mentis.
But then there is street justice. You know, the kind of thing where people beat the crap out of each other and call it justice. The sort of thing where crowds of people, masked and cloaked in black, gather and set fire to things in mostly peaceful demonstrations. There were only a few deaths--only about 40. The kind of thing where judges let violent defendants out of the court house through a back door for...reasons. They even have a song:
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes.
This is a real crime.
True, but I believe it should be said in plural form: These are real crimes.
Democrats, leftists hide behind phrases like 'halls of justice', 'Democracy', 'it's for the children', 'follow the science' when they are abusing those very institutions or concepts. They use the 'halls of justice' to take out their political enemies, to stifle a President they don't like, to silence speech they don't like, then cry when it's used to remove a judge working with criminals. And they expect that no one sees this.
This is not an objective judge. She's a pretty basic activist from the details I read about her actions. Nothing courageous about her. Nothing extraordinary about her.
From where I sit, this is the DoJ upholding the rule of law.
“In the halls of justice, the only justice is in the halls.”
- Howie Carr
“…more than 150 former state and federal judges signed a letter to Ms. Bondi“
Why no current judges, hmmm?
"Robert Cook said...
"So, if I understand it, indicting a judge for breaking the law is 'a cynical effort to undermine the rule of law.'"
Those making this assertion apparently do not agree the judge broke the law."
A. Nothing in their letter says that.
B. Even if that's true, judges should know that's not how it works.
@ Cook
Serious questions. I'm not trying to give you a hard time.
Do you think what Dugan did was the right thing for a judge to do?
If so, why shouldn't everybody, who feels they know best and have a duty to act upon their feelings, take legal matters into their own hands?
If it is the right thing, would you aid and abet the escape of a fugitive you feel empathy for and risk the consequences? If not, what would stop you? Lack of courage? Or something else?
@Bob Boyd I think Kant would say you have to give the refugee up bc it is never right to lie, not even to save a life.
I think Dugan should enter the court shouting, "Here come da Judge! Here come da judge!" It worked for Sammy Davis and Pigmeat Markham.
It's too redundant.
This letter from the 150 former state and federal judges should be filed in the same cabinet as the letter from the 51 intelligence officials who said that Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation.
I will give up my illegal aliens when they pry them from my cold, dead hands. - Hannah Dugan
"Ack...ack..." - a precious, blue-faced illegal alien
Give, devise and bequeath are all different legal terms. I can make a completed gift of my car by endorsing my car title. Devise and bequeath are both testamentary actions by will or trust to relatives or non-relatives.
“Those making this assertion apparently do not agree the judge broke the law”.
Ya don’t say!
I guess all you retards crying about "lawfare" just thought the justice system was attacking the wrong citizens. Noted.
Lock her up!
And who are these judges? Judges have been known to break the law. Judge in Omaha got drunk and ran his car into the ditch.
Judge Dugan undermined the rule of law and undermined the public’s trust—not Pam Bondi. Such projection! And these judges who wrote the letter are undermining the public’s trust even more.
For those of us that give a shit about the rule of law and the Constitution, it is possible to be angry about the way the January 6 protesters were over-prosecuted AND ALSO be angry at the Dugan prosecution. If you are a retard (and you are), you have to PICK JUST ONE.
"Halls of justice" could be redundant, or turgid, or just sloppy, but could be deliberate. The reporting around the incident certainly sounded like the Chief Magistrate (or whatever the title of the individual responsible for the operation of the courthouse is) was trying to come up with a reason to eject the ICE agents from the public spaces in the building to make their job even harder, and a first step to barring them from otherwise public spaces outside the building, too.
guardians of the rule of law
They used to be known as the Indians of the Rule of Law but that was culturally insensitive…
Liberal/left judges think they can do anything. They don't think they're above the law. They think the liberal/left IS the law. So, breaking the immigration law is no biggie, because they're a Judge and what the constutution says, and what people of United States of America (through their elected represenatatives) want is irrelevant.
I noticed the letter does the usual liberal/left trick of calling what's done "Bad", calls the person who did it names, and attacks their motives. But refuses to provide substantive arguements in defense of what they write.
Finally, Michale Luttig, the former Bush 41 appointed Fed court of appeals judge, signed the letter. This clown posed throughout the 1990s as "Mr. Conservative" - because he wanted a SCOTUS seat. When he got passed over for Roberts and Alito in the early 2000s, and he left the bench and dropped the mask. He's now a full blown Leftist. We dodged a bullett on that guy!
She may be a judge, but she was not acting in her capacity as a judge when she helped the criminal escape justice.
I'm sure the DOJ has made note of the judges who signed that letter. They bear keeping an eye on.
D.D. Driver said...it is possible to be angry about the way the January 6 protesters were over-prosecuted AND ALSO be angry at the Dugan prosecution.
Of course it's possible. Lots of things are possible.
“ This latest action is yet another attempt to
intimidate and threaten the judiciary after a series of rulings by judges appointed by presidents
of both parties holding the Trump Administration accountable for its countless violations of the
Constitution and laws of the United States.”
That’s factually wrong. And really shitty “legal” reasoning. They were judges?
The arrest was due to specific actions that Dugan did. And the perp walk was fully justified. Did these so-called judges complain when the FBI tracked down all those J6 people?
And we have the usual lying NYT's propaganda language. ICE didn't arrest an "immigrant" they arrested an illegal alien. He's not an undocumented immigrant either. He's an illegal alien who broke the immigration laws. And the state judge broke federal law by aiding and abetting the escape of a criminal.
Again, all this activism and lawbreaking by the judges shows why Congress and TRump need to do something.
The Judiciary is out-of-control. They have unlimited power and they're abusing it. We need to rein them in. We can start by getting rid of the ability of District Judges to issue nationwide injunctions. And Trump needs to start defending the right of the executive branch to administer and execute its own rules and regulations.
She may be a judge, but she was not acting in her capacity as a judge when she helped the criminal escape justice.
She was on her bench, in her robes, dismissing the case before her contemporaneously with the criminal acts. I don't understand the distinction your remark is attempting to demarcate.
One can be both outraged by the pre-dawn armed raid on Mar-A-Lago and still be disappointed this judge was not subject to a SWAT raid in addition to her gentle perp walk.
Dugan acted rashly. I predict she will eventually plead guilty, say she's an alcoholic or an addict and needs to enter the Halls of Rehab, not go to jail.
This is really stupid. If a judge were indicted for how she conducted trials or ruled on legal issues, that would be an assault on the judiciary. This was a judge who actively interfered with law enforcement's efforts to apprehend someone in connection with a different legal matter from the matter the judge had jurisdiction over. She is no more entitled to be shielded from prosecution than anyone else in the courthouse (a member of the public, for example) would be for doing what she did. If you want to say what she did shouldn't be considered a serious crime, that's one thing; but it's nonsense to assert that it somehow wasn't a crime because she's a judge.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW!!!!
Beyond rhetoric, I assume the "halls of justice" is a lame attempt to assert that the judge had the authority to ban the ICE from waiting in the hall outside her courtroom (i.e., a public space). The halls of justice might well include the lavatories of justice, and even the atriums and sidewalks of justice. And certainly the backdoors of justice.
If you are a retard (and you are), you have to PICK JUST ONE.
I bet Dugan picked just one.
Is there a “Spark of Divinity” in Dee Dee Driver?
Tune in tomorrow, for another episode…
This judge assisted in the escape of an arrested wife-beater who had promised to beat his wife again. This happened because this judge did not want the wife-beater deported for other crimes he had committed but wanted him free on the streets of Milwaukee.
She showed the wife-beater a way out of the courtroom which required that the judge use her standing to allow an unauthorized person to use doors and corridors reserved for court personnel.
He got to the street and ran down one of Milwaukees busiest streets. He could have grabbed anybody, knocked anybody down, punched anybody in the face so as to hospitalize them as he was accused by his wife and another of doing; he could have carjacked and sped away carelessly killing people that way as happens so often in Milwaukee that we in Milwaukee County pay extra insurance to cover all the deaths and damage from car accidents.
The judge, of course, did not care about the wife, the people outside or inside the Courthouse, or about the law. The point was that a sacred migrant should not have to go back to his own country although that country must be a better place since it is not part of the xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic, racist USA.
In short, defending the judge makes no sense and is dangerous non-sense.
But we have to realize that the people defending the judge are the same people who recently thought Joe Biden was "sharp as a tack." They aren't Republicans or free speech liberals or wayward Democrats. They're Dems. In other words, they are the people who know nothing at any given moment that they aren't supposed to know. Same with Russia, Russia. Same with Covid. Same with the laptop. Ima Dem, Ima know nothing The Big Guy tell me not to know.
The American people don’t trust the judiciary.
We’re citizens, not subjects.
The judge selfie-impeached as accessory followed by issue of a national, federal injunction. A swipe of the double-edged scalpel in a Karma-lic twist of Democratic Choice... uh, choice.
Just another a-hole corrupt democrat.
These a-hole democrat Judges care more about our decline, and their own authoritarian impulses than they do the rule of law.
btw- he is the ugliest thing going. Yikes. The face matches the soul.
Tim Maguire writes, "Of course it's possible. Lots of things are possible."
And ignoring the differences is what retards do when the differences are inconvenient to the Narrative.
I think any prosecution will occur in Milwaukee. In other words, Judge Dugan will walk and the ICE agents attempting the arrest will be indicted by local prosecutors.
So add this letter to the thing signed by the 88 professors at Duke University in North Carolina and published in The Chronicle.
As Democrats are so fond of telling us, "Nobody is above the law." Not judges. Not Congresspersons invading a New Jersey ICE detention facility. Nobody.
This considerably overweight female Democrat judge had no duty to help ICE but she did have a duty not to interfere.
I see DD Driver couldn’t give a damn about the two people sent to the hospital by this criminal that Dugan freed without even informing the prosecutor. She dismissed the case without a hearing and released the defendant while the victims were left in the gallery. It was the county’s victim specialist, there to help the victims, that reported to ICE what Dugan was doing, because at least one person in the courtroom cared about the victims.
Let’s keep in mind that the question of this criminal’s residential status was previously determined by the last administration. They were deported for committing other crimes in the US. They reentered the country to commit more crimes, which was why they were appearing in Dugan’s courtroom. This is who Dugan and DD Driver are defending. Their claims of morality are shit.
"and destroys the trust the American people have in the nation’s judges to administer justice"
What a hoot. They've destroyed that trust themselves.
Surely you haven’t forgotten Lenny Bruce’s comment: “In the halls of justice, the only justice is in the halls”
To a progressive, courtrooms aren't halls of justice. They're bureaucratic tools of the state, which may be used to serve the ends of progress, but must be continuously reformed and made more just - they must progress!
The progressive halls of justice are wherever the Right People gather to promote Correct Thought and discuss how courtrooms should be reformed.
Justice may be served in a courtroom, but only if the judge has been attending sermons in the halls of justice.
“Halls of justice” sounds better than “the back corridors of justice”.
The case against her is pretty clear, but the jury will nullify the Halls of Justice, and Democrats will hail that and her lofty place above the law.
"She dismissed the case without a hearing and released the defendant while the victims were left in the gallery."
Leland brings up a point that is generally over-looked. This hag in a bag did not just interfere with the federal agents attempting to do their jobs. She actively sabotaged the court she was sworn and paid to preside over.
The "halls of justice" are those places in the courthouse that lead to the back stairway where you can escape--if a politicized judge is willing to help you do so.
The case against her is pretty clear, but the jury will nullify the Halls of Justice, and Democrats will hail that and her lofty place above the law.
There's always impeachment and removal (as if). Fear not, the judge can play herself in the remake of The Goonies. She's a dead ringer for the hag.
The hulls of Just Us resonate with hollow inflections. Andrea suggested infections, with which I homonymously agree.
Courthouses have a theatrical aspect. The courthouse has a "front of house" for spectators and public participants, and multiple layers of "back of house" space with different gradations of "inside". The reference to the halls of justice might be gesturing toward the judge's use of privileged access to insider space to assist the individual in escaping from ICE.
J ersey Fled said...
So, if I understand it, indicting a judge for breaking the law is “a cynical effort to undermine the rule of law
NO ONE is above The Law!!
Except Democrats.. of course
It will be interesting to learn the facts. At this point, none of us know the details. I will be interested in the testimony of the undocumented immigrants attorney. It is curious that the attorney has not been charged or indicted, because I am assuming that the attorney accompanied his client through the jury room and then ultimately into the public hallway and elevator. It will be also interesting to hear the testimony of the victims of the alleged domestic assault who were sitting in the courtroom and watched this all transpire.
A law student roommate used 'various and sundry' in conversation. Told him it was redundant and repetitive.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
One can be both outraged by the pre-dawn armed raid on Mar-A-Lago and still be disappointed this judge was not subject to a SWAT raid in addition to her gentle perp walk.
5/14/25, 8:17 AM
Good comeback Mike, and OH, so true!!!
"No one is above the law" has officially been modified by the Democrats to "Normies and Republicans are not above the law", for clarities sake, you know.
Iman said...
"Is there a “Spark of Divinity” in Dee Dee Driver?
Tune in tomorrow, for another episode…"
There's a spark of somethin'.
Excellent, Mike and wildswan. Also excellent Judge Dredd cite.
We had a violent felon overpower a courthouse guard here some years ago and go on a killing spree. That's what violent felons fleeing courthouses do. He murdered a judge, a court reporter, a sheriff's deputy, and a federal agent who happened to be at home working in his yard.
Who the hell kills a court reporter? My husband worked in that hall of justice, luckily not on that day. The felon, a violent rapist, was caught by one clever drug addict whom he kidnapped next. She used her sheer guts and instinct to talk him down, party with him, commiserate until he passed out, escape, and alert the police. I hope things got better for her.
I hope this judge spends decades in prison for befouling justice.
"The Trump administration has defended the prosecution as a warning that no one is above the law, while many Democrats, lawyers and former judges have denounced it as an assault on the judiciary...."
So, Trump says "no one is above the law", and the "Democrats, lawyers and former judges" respond "WE are above the law".
Fuck them
“This cynical effort undermines the rule of law,” that letter said, “and destroys the trust the American people have in the nation’s judges to administer justice in the courtrooms and in the halls of justice across the land.”
No, scum bags, corrupt Democrat "judges" refusing to follow the law "destroys the trust the American people have in the nation’s judges to administer justice".
So stop defending that
Robert Cook said...
"So, if I understand it, indicting a judge for breaking the law is 'a cynical effort to undermine the rule of law.'"
Those making this assertion apparently do not agree the judge broke the law.
Then they are liars. Because Any honest person understands that a judge leading a criminal out a non-public exit for the sole purpose of helping the criminal escape from officers of the law there to arrest him, when those officers have the legal right to arrest him, is indeed violating the law.
Lie all you want, Cookie, the facts are known, and against you
D.D. Driver said...
For those of us that give a shit about the rule of law and the Constitution, it is possible to be angry about the way the January 6 protesters were over-prosecuted AND ALSO be angry at the Dugan prosecution. If you are a retard (and you are), you have to PICK JUST ONE.
No, shithead, the only way you can be "angry at the Dugan prosecution" is by taking one of these two positions:
1: democrat judges are above teh law, and can do whatever they want
2: It is wrong to enforce US immigration law, and therefore ANYONE can do anything they want to obstruct and prevent that law from being enforced.
Neither position could ever be held by a worthwhile human being
Those comic book references may have been to the gathering place of the Justice League of America. Otherwise, the "Halls of Justice" would probably be the corridors in the courthouses.
A courtroom isn't much like a royal court, so perhaps one speaks of the "Halls of Justice" in hope that courthouses will still have something to do with justice. One radio host keeps repeating a Lenny Bruce quote, "In the Halls of Justice, the only justice is in the halls." They're where the deals are supposedly made.
Greg The Class Traitor said...
So, Trump says "no one is above the law", and the "Democrats, lawyers and former judges" respond "WE are above the law".
And that is exactly what her defense is claiming:
“ “The problems with the prosecution are legion, but most immediately, the government cannot prosecute Judge Dugan because she is entitled to judicial immunity for her official acts,” the motion says. “Immunity is not a defense to the prosecution to be determined later by a jury or court; it is an absolute bar to the prosecution at the outset.”
She believes she acted in a state official capacity and that entitles her to judicial immunity from federal prosecution.
I suspect that if she could prosecute the ICE officials for making an arrest in the courthouse, she would do it.
The Hall of Justice, or simply the Hall, is a fictional headquarters appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics. The Hall of Justice serves as a headquarters for the Justice League.
It was first introduced in the Super Friends animated series on September 8, 1973, and it eventually appeared in comic book titles related to the Justice League, as well as video games and other media.
Lenny Bruce, though, died in 1966. Hall of Justice is also a common name for buildings housing courtrooms, jails, police and prosecutor's offices, and other criminal justice agencies, especially in California.
According to Google engrams, "hall of justice" goes back to at least the 17th century, spiking in 1650s, 1760s, and 1840s. "Halls of justice" was less common until our own century.
If you leftists keep up this bullshit, you're certainly not going to like what comes next.
If you continue to destroy the system by selectively applying the rules/law, people will simply take matters into their own hands. And by the time you start bitching about it, it'll be too late.
Scofflaw Democrats are out of control and their pimps in the leftmedia are loving it.
Meanwhile…
I can only hope, because this is a federal case, and not a local, that the jurors will be more thoughtful and less shoot from the hip-let’s get Trump bullshit.
I am being too hopeful?
"I am being too hopeful?"
If you're hoping that Democrats who'd vote for whatever is best for Democrats while disregarding the actual particulars in a local issue (which they would) will set that aside in a federal issue, you're being too hopeful.
Leland said...
Greg The Class Traitor said...
So, Trump says "no one is above the law", and the "Democrats, lawyers and former judges" respond "WE are above the law".
And that is exactly what her defense is claiming:
“ “The problems with the prosecution are legion, but most immediately, the government cannot prosecute Judge Dugan because she is entitled to judicial immunity for her official acts,” the motion says. “Immunity is not a defense to the prosecution to be determined later by a jury or court; it is an absolute bar to the prosecution at the outset.”
She believes she acted in a state official capacity and that entitles her to judicial immunity from federal prosecution.
If she actually believes that, she's wrong.
She acted in a personal capacity as a criminal thug when she escorted the criminal defendant out of a non-public exit to help him avoid the officers who were there to lawfully arrest him.
Her rescheduling teh case and denying justice to teh crime victims who were there might be an "official act", her helping him to escape was not.
But it's nice to see she's admitting her crime, makes it harder on the scum defending her
What a disappointment. I was hoping this scofflaw judge would get the full Biden DoJ "Trump Treatment'' complete with a SWAT team blowing her door off the hinges and then being slammed face first into the driveway at gunpoint while in her underwear. Plus some news crews from local media and CNN getting video of the whole thing for posterity. Just like they did with the J6ers, Peter Navarro, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone, and all those other regime opponents from 2021-2025. Equal treatment is proof of equal justice right? No pay or bail either.
Post a Comment
Please use the comments forum to respond to the post. Don't fight with each other. Be substantive... or interesting... or funny. Comments should go up immediately... unless you're commenting on a post older than 2 days. Then you have to wait for us to moderate you through. It's also possible to get shunted into spam by the machine. We try to keep an eye on that and release the miscaught good stuff. We do delete some comments, but not for viewpoint... for bad faith.