From the NYT obituary for Pope Francis.
There's also this: "Francis repeatedly sought to stand up to nationalism. During the U.S. presidential election, he suggested that Donald J. Trump, the Republican candidate, was 'not Christian' because of his preference for building walls rather than bridges. Mr. Trump responded: 'For a religious leader to question a person’s faith is disgraceful. I am proud to be a Christian.'"
There's also this: "Francis repeatedly sought to stand up to nationalism. During the U.S. presidential election, he suggested that Donald J. Trump, the Republican candidate, was 'not Christian' because of his preference for building walls rather than bridges. Mr. Trump responded: 'For a religious leader to question a person’s faith is disgraceful. I am proud to be a Christian.'"
ADDED: Francis had seemed to be doing better but perhaps he was only determined — massively determined — to make a strong showing for Easter (and to target the United States for criticism over its treatment of migrants):
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89 comments:
Dems will blame it on JD Vance, who had just met with the Pope.
The pope is famous for being the most humble man in the world.
My NY Post Headline: Big Sleep Downs Pope Woke the First
Well we’ve found out how many divisions the Pope has.
Now for SCOTUS….
JSM
He was a very strange Pope. I happened to catch his brief remarks yesterday morning because the channel I had on carried it live. It sounded to me like one brief sentence before a younger cardinal took over. Strange.
So a guy living in Vatican City was against walls?
Philippe Sollers "Women" has a plot point about meeting the pope, in the same style as he accounts for women.
Ignoring or countenancing the human suffering and injustice on a global scale that were the inevitable consequences of an intentionally dismantled national border did not make him a Christian.
The Church was founded in a pun "tu es petrus." Once you let humor in you get Thou art Peter and thou shalt pick pecks of picked peppers/
il popo muerto?
Jorge Mario Bergoglio was one of the NKVD's men in Argentina along with Ernesto Guevara and many others. Argentina was one of the prime Comintern targets in the Americas because of the parallels with Spain. Nobody in Stalin's orbit but Che thought Cuba was ripe for conquest because of the implied contradictions of Marxist theory -- Perón's Argentina, however, was a perfect fit.
Bergoglio adopted Marxism and anti-Americanism as a student at a technical college, and probably never abandoned them, which is why he took the name Francis, the most Marx-compliant Catholic saint.
Rather than play the Pope's game, Trump should have deported a few thousand illegals to the Vatican.
He betrayed the faithful in China, the CCP selects the hierarchy there. The Latin Mass brings in lapsed Catholics and young converts, and he all but eliminated it. His lackey Cupich gave the blessing at the 2024 DNC in Chicago, not a word about abortion or politicians not being Christian.
Agents of the Comintern and the NKVD penetrated seminaries throughout Latin America, beginning in the early 1920's under Trotsky's stewardship. That's how Liberation Theology began.
Willed himself to live through Easter, it sounds like. Maybe we'll get a pope younger than I am now. That's never happened before.
If there had been a disciple Piper they could have founded a church on tweets (pipare), better suited to modern messages.
I will pray for him, but I won't miss him. You can take your Pope out of Argentina, but we couldn't take the Argentina out of the Pope.
The first and last Jesuit Pope.
The Pope's initiative in knocking down the walls around Vatican City and selling so many of the Vatican's treasures to help the poor was truly inspirational.
Not a Catholic, but I hope the results of this experiment cause the next Pope to be more true to the Bible
A couple of days ago the propaganda praised him as a righteous foil to future President JD Vance. There is a conspiracy to keep destructive social justice figureheads sentient and vigorous right up to the moment they drop dead…
Perhaps now "Is the Pope Catholic" can go back to being the punchline of a joke instead of a legitimate question.
His politics manipulated the wicked into becoming advocates for the church…
Don Trump ... godfather ... can you send JD Vance to visit Hillary on this, the day of my daughter's wedding?
A pope even the Muslims could abide,
https://st1.latestly.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/pope-imam-kiss-781x441.jpg
Scary on multiple levels.
Joe Biden: Tanned… Rusted… Ready!
"Pope Francis, Advocate for Economic and Social Justice, Dies at 88"
you know? if *i* was Vicar of Christ, i'd SURE want the headlines when *i* died, to read:
Advocate for Economic and Social Justice, Dies
'cause THAT's what Christ was ALL about.. Right?
I mean, RIGHT?
https://www.wsj.com/world/pope-francis-advocate-for-economic-and-social-justice-dies-at-88-103eeff3?mod=WSJ_home_supertoppertop_pos_1
"target the United States for criticism over its treatment of migrants" Priorities. Christians get murdered routinely in many African countries, so let's "target the United States." Talk about bad faith.
"The catholic church was criticized for not speaking out against rising fascism in the 30s."
Let's remember that the Catholic Church was playing priest roulette with children ... transferring pedophile priests from parish to parish just ahead of the law the world over and very, very quietly. It is an evil cabal of Satan's minions. That God chose Easter to be the day he extinguished the light of the Pope forever is very telling about the future of that organization.
A gay catholic coworker absolutely loved Francis. That told me everything I needed to know about this pope.
Ugh, liberation theology.
I transmogrified from Catholicism to Episcopalianism thirty-plus years ago for several reasons (the music among them - I really deeply dislike the lame post-Vatican II Jesuit stuff - sorry, Begley) but remain Anglo-Catholic, by American lights. To the extent that I am allowed to have one, this was not my favorite pope, but I trust he'll rest in peace.
He was 88, so its hard to be surprised or too sad over his death and going to heaven.
As someone said, he was a strange man. And as I said, he was a bad pope. Constantly, popping off about Political matters that were none of his business, and weirdly concerned with open borders and Donald Trump.
In fact, he seemed mored interested in fighting traditionalists in his own Church then in fighting Satan, and more concerned about winning the approval of Jewish and Islamic Organizations than in winning converts.
Maybe the next Pope will be better, but I doubt it.
“Trump should have deported a few thousand illegals to the Vatican.“
I’m pretty sure they’d have gotten a Martha’s Vineyard welcome.
BTW, migrants = illegal aliens.
So he was against nationalism. But said nothing as Islam burned churches in Canada, France, England.
Said nothing while Christians are murdered in Africa, and elsewhere.
Religion is, especially Catholicism, becoming popular again, and he helped to end the Latin Mass, which so many Catholics prefer, especially the new converts.
Hated walls, except those around his enormous stash of gold and riches.
Showed the world that his beliefs were grounded in Marxism, and allowing the church to be even more out of touch.
He also showed us what fake compassion and mercy look like.
"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." — Thomas Mann
It is time for Catholics in America to divorce the Vatican.
Francis did try to keep down the more outre gay faction of the Curia. Credit where credit is due.
On 2nd thoughts, isn't it insulting to Catholics for the NYT's to use their obituary of a Pope, as a way to attack Trump? No one will care about Trump in 4 years. He'll be out of office. And he was on the sideliness for 4 years.
Yet here is the NYT's writing about a man who's 88 y/o and was Pope for 12 years. You'd think he Trump were clashing every day.
Reagan, a staunch anti-communist, had the anti-communist pope John Paul II. Obama, our first third-world president, had the third-world pope Francis. Who is Trump going to get?
If the Pope was "against nationalism" then he should've been attacking the Israelis over Gaza, and both sides in the Ukraine-russia conflict, every day of the week. Both are driven by "nationalism". But he didn't say much about either conflict. In fact, he was always silent about Arab or Israeli agressions , no matter how many Christians were being killed.
It strikes me as cheap Christianity to be "for migrants" without acknowledging the human cost of "migration," paid by both the "migrants" the the populace of the country to which they "migrate." It's like "Love is love" - a bumper sticker that means nothing (at best - at worst, it means pedophilia, bestiality, whatever harm certain individuals feel like perpetrating on others for their own pleasure) and obligates nothing.
Popin' ain't easy.
"Francis tried to move the church away from divisive issues such as abortion and homosexuality, instead focusing on climate change, poverty and migration"
Man, a Pope the NYT's loved. Yeah, better better hide your light under a basket, its less divisive that way. But speak in favor of Open borders and Climate change and talk like a NYT's reading, liberal billionaire.
He was a despicable adherent of "liberation theology" ... which is neither, but is essentially Communism wrapped up in Jesus language ... so perhaps the most appropriate comment is "Forgive him, Father, for he had no idea what he was doing."
I learnt how to read in Spanish a year before I could read in English, and I can assure you that most translations of his speeches into English strove quite hard to hide the Communism. Dishonesty disturbs me far more than stupidity.
Any potential pope from Uganda, Kenya, Nigeria will probably be solid. From South Africa, probably not. The problem is that Francis had a long decade the change the College of Cardinals to a coterie of theological liberals, which he certainly did. Of the 135 Cardinal Electors, 109 were appointed by Francis. Expect more liberal nonsense.
I"m not interested in arguing about whether Illegal aliens and open borders are a "Catholic issue". They never were before. And they wouldn't be now if the areligious money-mad elite weren't pushing it. Its all about cheap labor and power to the Democrat party. It has zero to do with "Helping the poor illegal alien".
The people breaking the law and coming here illegally aren't doing it because they are starving in their home country - they just want a nice apartment, cars and cheese burgers. And to live in the USA.
Is Joe Scab-burrow(D-hack) claiming JD killed the pope, yet?
One can only hope that the grey smoke will rise over someone who will mind his own business. The stench of woke sanctimony from a fat prig shaking his holy pickle at others is enough to pray for a conclave.
- Krumhorn
Lucien: "So a guy living in Vatican City was against walls?"
This joke has come up a bunch of times here. As a proud half-Italian, please let me point out that the Vatican walls arent there to keep anyone out. Their purpose is to keep the Popes in.
The buggers resisted Italian unification to the bitter end, excommunicating the leaders and making alliances with foreign empires. Of course they support anything that degrades the nation-state.
JSM
“During the U.S. presidential election, he suggested that Donald J. Trump, the Republican candidate, was 'not Christian' because of his preference for building walls rather than bridges” said the Pope in the walled nation of the Vatican.
An extraordinary Pope and man passed during the holiest of weeks. A Pope who supported the poor and oppressed and was not afraid to listen to different points of view. Most Catholics will never have the opportunity to meet or even see a Pope in person and I hope our revanchist Vice President, granted that privilege solely because to his position, will take to heart the teachings of this remarkable man.
Jamie: "the music among them - I really deeply dislike the lame post-Vatican II Jesuit stuff"
Yes, poor Proulx - I hope he was able to make his peace. All the USCCB had to do was adopt/adapt one of the many Protestant hymnals in English, or just translate the Latin hymnal. But no - they had to create something new out of whole cloth, in a hurry. Wankers.
JSM
I have watched the postings of the "Catholics" up in here disparaging this pope from the begining.Why do we have a Communist Pope, he is wrong about caring for immigrants, sinners etc. Francis last speeches included "“How much contempt is stirred up at times towards the vulnerable, the marginalized and migrants?"He obviously was speaking about trump and his grouping of people. Well "Catholics" you can visualie saying thank goodness this guy is gone.. As Francis said"who am I to judge the right CINO'S (CATHOLICS IN NAME ONLY) are heard shouting we need an Italian guy in the big seat, that guy was too much a liberal.I have heard many Catholics when asked who is the head of the church and they say the POPE. Christians have always said it is Christ ,the HEAD not any man. Sweet Journey Francis, im sure you will here the statement when the final resurrection happens and you enter into the realm" Well done my good and faithful servant, Catholics up in here will battle for an Italian and not another Communist as they referred to their leader. Sad.. The bashing will continue on Francis because name calling and demeaning statements are the par,, A Pope who really cared for the world of the 21st century and not hung up in the 1200's .Christ will welcome His servant NO DOUBT, the rabble in the audience will continue to disparage.
I'm not a Catholic, but being raised outside Boston meant that many of my friends were. Even though this was decades before the time of the Spotlight exposé, the child predator crimes were being committed then. But still: The Catholic Church was a pervasive, dynamic, and beneficial part of society then, an imperfect keystone to the lives of many families. How far it has fallen, since then. It would be good to see traditions return, to see the church remove itself from its many modern subversive roles.
"Not a Catholic, but I hope the results of this experiment cause the next Pope to be more true to the Bible"
Kind, decent, and compassionate, Pope Francis was badly out of step with contemporary MAGA culture. The Catholic Church now has an opportunity to put aside archaic notions about catering to the poor and sick by choosing a new Pope who will focus on attacking gay people and restricting women’s reproductive rights.
So. One less pope to find in the pizza.
Kak - What does the Pope have to do with "Make America Great Again"? Nothing.
I'm glad JD Vance was able to meet him prior to his death. Also amazing is that the Pope who was very ill, was alive to see another Easter.
Meanwhile- The democrat party is still a MS-13 hugging sewer.
An advocate of Liberation Theology, which was condemned by John Paul II, the great anti-communist pope.
No doubt the Pope will follow procedure to get through the Pearly Gates. I understand they're pretty selective.
Aggie said...
I'm not a Catholic, but being raised outside Boston meant that many of my friends were. Even though this was decades before the time of the Spotlight exposé, the child predator crimes were being committed then. But still: The Catholic Church was a pervasive, dynamic, and beneficial part of society then, an imperfect keystone to the lives of many families. How far it has fallen, since then. It would be good to see traditions return, to see the church remove itself from its many modern subversive roles.
4/21/25, 8:47 AM
—————————
I also grew up just outside of Boston in the 60’s and 70’s.
One thing that “Spotlight” touched on was that the issues were well known. My parents did not want my brother and zi to be altar boys because of the issue. In high school and college there was constant joking about some priestly proclivities.
I think that your hope for tradition to return is slowly being fulfilled. Recent surveys indicate that 80% of seminarians are doctrinally conservative. The growth in TLM is due to young families.
There are seeds throughout the world that we may be on the verge of an awakening.
Assassination Tango.
RIP
Even this pope deserves better than a preening kaKA caw cawing.
There's a lot of comments out there about Francis being a liberation theology proponent. He was not, quite the opposite. He was on the side of the wealthy and powerful, using the contemporary guise of liberationish sounding language. If you read (which sadly few do) the earliest liberation theologies, they were always about the Church being on the side of the poor within the countries where the Church had historically subjugated the poor and stood on the side of the wealthy Spanish and Portuguese. The whole migration issue is a continuation of that work, rather than confronting the powerful and wealthy, rather than taking the side of the poor, it became chic to get rid of the poor, to tell them they needed to leave and go to other countries, and then trying to put a guilt trip on those other countries for not taking the poor. Like a bad parent who neglects their children, going on expensive trips and blowing it on fancy cars and other wealth, then gets angry the local schools don't have free breakfast programs for the neglected children.
Liberation theology was about reforming societies, saw revolutions as a path for that, then far too many committed to the political ideologies rather than the underlying goal. Pseudo-liberationists then excused the wealthy and powerful (including the Church) by insisting the poor go elsewhere. It's Martha's Vineyard writ large. It's not liberation, it's oppression with a mask.
My sister, an ultra-traditionalist Catholic, once said to me that she had her doubts about the religious authority of Pope Francis. Just goes to show you can't please everyone.
May the next pope be more in the mold of Pope John Paul II, who helped destroy the Soviet Union with Reagan and Thatcher. And just to be clear, I'm looking at you, CCP.
A Theology of Liberation by Gustavo Gutierrez is much more faithful to the real Gospel than most people on either side of the political spectrum realize.
I'm guessing the next Pope will be African.
I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but G*d struck-down Pope Francis, just one day after the pontiff criticized the United States.
The next Pope will be Muslim
Maybe Francis expired in disbelief after meeting an actual believing Catholic politician.
Funny thinking of donald trump claiming to be a christian.
Paddy O -9:21.
history -thanks.
Reminds me of Gov Polis(D) and the Colorado democrats.
they all HATE Christians - but they love power. All the imported illegals - the Polis and his dems demanded that all the local Churches - Catholic and Protestant - take in, care for, feed etc... the illegals. The same churches the left, hate.
And then Wealthy Polis took off in his jet.
Just as I started to reread Burgess's "Earthly Powers," which involves an effort to canonize a recently deceased pope.
It has been so long, I don't recall how that came out.
If you can't say anything nice, say nothing. Nothing.
Funny thinking of Jim thinking.
This pope put the final nail in the coffin of the Catholic church for me (born and raised Catholic, off and on observant). The last straw. I'd been losing trust in institutions for years and what finally broke it with the Church was when yet another sex scandal came to light and all the Vatican basically said was "Yeah, that's bad but we're more concerned with social justice and climate change, thanks."
That was actually a Babylon Bee 'news' story, but then the Vatican went and did it.
To note, a fair number of Catholics viewed him to be illegitimate pope.
Since I'm a lapsed Methodist I don't have a dog in the hunt for a new Pope. But the thought crossed my mind that "enough with the liberation theology" that seems to be prevalent in Latin American bishops and cardinals. Since Christianity is seemingly strongest on the rise in Africa, how about an African Pope? Strike a blow for DEI and all that.
It's time to prepare the seldom used "Saw Your Smoke Now You're Pope Congrats" greeting card.
Another enemy of MAGA bites the dust. Trump whacked the pope on Easter- savage!
Disparity of Cult said...
"The Latin Mass brings in lapsed Catholics and young converts, and he all but eliminated it."
My brother is one of the few priests that still performs the Latin mass.
Nationalism is not the problem. There will always be geographical, legal, and individual jurisdictions. Well, perhaps the last, when she entertains abortive ideation for "burdens" conceived by her choice.
Jesus was reborn, while the other victims of progress remain sequestered in darkness.
Worst pope of my lifetime, by far. One more pope this bad and the Catholic Church in the USA will be fatally wounded. It's already struggling.
My brother is one of the few priests that still performs the Latin mass.
There's one small conservative parish in Phoenix that still does the Tridentine Mass, but the bishop doesn't allow it on Sunday. You have to go on Wednesday or Saturday evening.
I went to one at a much larger church during Benedict's time, when the Latin liturgy was encouraged, and it was packed to the rafters. Lots of pretty young women wearing mantillas, many with their husbands and numerous children.
Times like these call for the elevation of Father Guido Sarducci!
If I hadn't already left the Catholic Church, this pope would've cinched it.
I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but G*d struck-down Pope Francis, just one day after the pontiff criticized the United States.
Well if that's the reason, he would've been struck down years ago.
Well if that's the reason, he would've been struck down years ago.
…A Hawaiian judge issued an injunction…
The tiny Catholic church in Clarkdale AZ offers Latin Mass daily.
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