"... no collective understanding of what consent means. They need this desperately, especially now, with a president who was found liable for sexually abusing one woman and who has bragged about assaulting others. This essential education cannot come just from squeamish gym teachers. One idea would be to put more of this work into the hands of teenagers themselves. This is not without precedent. In 1973 a group called the Student Committee for Rational Sex Education conducted workshops in a dozen New York City public schools. Peer educators ran learning centers that they called 'rap rooms,' where students could stop by during free periods. Unlike their adult counterparts, the teenage educators made sex ed fun and playful, motivating their peers to voluntarily seek answers to their questions or to watch a demonstration of a contraceptive device."
Writes Hillary Frank, in
"Our Kids Cannot Learn About Sex Just From Squeamish Gym Teachers" (NYT).
I don't like "how to have healthy relationships and hookups." Does "healthy" modify "hookups" as well as "relationships"? "Healthy hookups"? I'm sorry, I have no "collective understanding" of what that might be.
I enjoyed seeing the old term "rap rooms." There was a time when "rapping" just meant talking.
As for "squeamish" teachers... I can think of worse problems. Just do your job and teach the material. It's a science topic. Skip the dogma.
Posts
59 comments:
Try traditional Christian or Jewish ethical and theological education.
There was no Google in 1973.
When that fake E. Jean Carroll verdict is overturned, what will the Left have to say?
The better fix is healthy marriages with two parents raising children to see a healthy relationship. The worst fix is having non-family, with various motivations, teaching children and teens about relationships and sex.
Biology exposes the inner workings of sex. Morality reveals the significance of intimacy and respect. Talk with mom or dad, if their reconciliation is not forthcoming.
The Good Old Days, 52 years ago - you know, back when Democrats had a brand.
The P Diddy crowd didn’t have healthy sexual hookups. Go lecture them, Karen.
The MSM propaganda machine never rests. Give the author 10 points for shoe-horning an Anti-Trump reference in an article that has zero to do with him.
" and who has bragged about assaulting others"
when did This happen?
Could someone find a quote? a quote about HIM assaulting others?
I'll wait
The only point in sex ed is to make sure Kids understand birth control and that sex can equal pregnancy. Otherwise, shut up about it, and let parents, churches, etc. deal with it.
I can see the inside of Hillary Frank's brain:
"How can I write a column where I can call Trump a sex offender? I know! I will write another column about sex education!
Oh sorry, I forgot about Aids and VD. They need to know about that too. Public Hygine.
And tomorrow, Frank will figure out how to call Trump a sex offender by writing about celery.
Hookups? Is that a crude characterization of intercourse? It sounds misogynistic.
Rapping around the fire was a traditional way to stay warm and discourage wild incursions.
Men and women used to enjoy intimate love. Something special. That's still a majority choice.
"understanding of what consent means."
Consent means: The girl likes it, and hasn't pressed charges.. YET
Consent can (obviously!) be revoked, at ANY Time she chooses.
Best Bet is to Assume that she (at some future time) will revoke consent.
NEVER use your real name, and/or NEVER leave a witnesses
I was going to do an ellipsis over the Trump part, but decided you needed to see it. You know ideas by the company they keep.
BTW, we're still getting references to how poor little Far left Georgie Porgie stephanopolis is "sad" and "Disgruntled" that ABC didn't defend him when he lied about Trump being a rapist.
This does show how the Left works though. They get on message and they stay on message. They never wrote about Nixon without attaching some label to remind you he was thown out of office. Meanwhile, the Right has the memory of gnat, and wont mention anything bad about Leftists that isn't 2 days old.
Fortunately, we still have Dr. Joycelyn Elders ready and waiting to teach the kids other ways to relieve adolescent hormonal tensions ...
... and to help them through the awkward business of dating, there's always GRINDR ...
"who has bragged about assaulting others" BS already noted, but still telling, isn't it? Progs just can't help themselves. They still operate in their bubble, not realizing that they are in fact exposed and the world has moved on.
"Skip the dogma." LOL. The dogma is the dogma. Also a big difference between Althouse and progs to her left.
“ Before I made my own podcasts, I was an independent public radio reporter, filing stories on everything from housing to health to art to education, but my unofficial beat was teenagers. I think that’s because I also write young adult novels. Whenever one of my editors had an assignment that involved teens, I got the call. I worked for shows like This American Life, Studio360, Marketplace, Morning Edition, All Things Considered, and Weekend America ….”
Disqualified.
Huxley and Orwell are still in a race towards the future. Orwell's "Anti-Sex League" still seems ridiculous, but the idea that the future may be less sexual and sexualized than the present doesn't look so crazy as it did in the 60s/70s/80s. Japan, and now South Korea, are leading the way (or maybe other parts of the world are even further along).
instead of being influenced by the sexual misbehavior of Trump, let the kids be inspired by the practices of Hollywood and the music industry, which are above criticism.
Althouse said...
I enjoyed seeing the old term "rap rooms." There was a time when "rapping" just meant talking.
More recently, I remember "rape rooms" in Saddam's Iraq.
She claims to be a specialist in "reproductive health." A euphemism for "abortion." So she outs herself as a libertine, anti-chastity propagandist for sex without committment/consequences. Immediate disqualification from rational or useful discourse on sexual ethics. That, and she writes for the NYT.
My modest proposal: The problem of obtaining irrevocable, undeniable, irrefutable consent for every step of a sexual encounter with another person has only one possible solution. Record full video and audio of the entire encounter from the moment one meets the other person to the moment they leave. Both parties exit the encounter with copies, and the original is uploaded to an objective third party, say, your local or state government or a paid arbitrator/executor for both parties.
I see no other way to avoid possible misunderstandings, controversies, civil and criminal charges, other than limiting sexual encounters to within some framework of mutual trust and common understanding such as, oh, a relationship longer than 12 hours, say, marriage, where a smile in response to a whisper in one's ear should suffice for the whole shebang.
So who exactly is it driving women to the conditions of The Handsmaid Tale? Those pushing both promiscuity and infinite ability to withdraw consent, or those pushing more traditional sexual mores?
The crime of rape in an era without feminine modesty is the source of confusion about consent. Rape is about violating feminine modesty. Now nobody knows what it is, least of all women.
The crime ought to be assault and battery. Then everybody knows what it is. In particular on campus.
I'm old enough to remember when learning about sex from other teenagers was the Dread Specter which sex ed in the schools was supposed to save us from.
The kids might be less confused about what consent means if our betters hadn't spent decades trying to turn it into a subspecialty in contract law.
Italics check.
I have long wondered what percentage of modern divorce is the direct result of couples getting things backwards, and essentially starting off with sex. Probably a majority, and perhaps a rather solid one.
Once the sexual excitement wears off, and it will, not only do the couple have next to nothing to work with, lots of genuine problems come to the fore, and the folks have never even learnt to fight productively, or even address differences creatively as they arise.
There is something to be said for semi-arranged marriages, when older, calmer people have some solid sense about to potential partners' compatibility.
An old Chinese friend told me, decades ago "When it comes to love, you Westerners put a hot kettle on a cold stove."
An Auschwitz-survivor friend, who married a man within three days of their Polish city's Jews -- who had once numbered 150,000 -- realising they could not find the necessary ten men for a prayer service, and had decided "We have to get to work for children.", put it very well "It is far better to LEARN to love, than to fall in love."
The Rapper was a big hit in the '70's.
In the headlines, "RFK Takes Aim at Anti-Depressants."
Anti-depressants can lower sex drive and cause sexual dysfunction.
If Bobby wins out, we will have more unhappy people, but they'll be having more and better sex, so maybe they won't be so unhappy after all.
My kids don't seem to have these problems. Hopefully, Hillary Frank doesn't have any kids. I'm surprised she didn't suggest we just castrate all the boys. Should solve the problem.
"I can see the inside of Hillary Frank's brain:"
You have my whole-hearted sympathy.
Bart Hall: "Once the sexual excitement wears off, and it will, not only do the couple have next to nothing to work with, lots of genuine problems come to the fore, and the folks have never even learnt to fight productively, or even address differences creatively as they arise."
This is why I tell young people to NEVER make promises or decisions about a relationship until the newness and sexual excitement wear off.
In the land of the free, the government should keep its hands off the sex lives of the residents, except for criminal transgressions. "Healthy hookups" is not a thing for the average woman. I'm sure it is a wonderful concept for the average young male. That alone makes it an unworkable concept for basic education.
Teachers may have a role in imparting knowledge about sex, sexually transmitted diseases, contraception and so forth. Teachers certainly should outline the limits of the legally acceptable. But teachers should not purport to be directing the sex lives of their students.
Considering that everyday a goverment school "teacher" is arrested for being a sex predator, who are wholly defended and supported by the teacher unions, it would be best not to leave sex education in the hands of teachers-squeamish gym ones or otherwise.
Of course, by the same desire to improve education, leaving ANY kind of instruction to the government school system is an exercise in depraved malfeasance.
Or maybe they are just groomers.
There is no such thing as a healthy hookup. How about if schools focus on teaching academic subjects well? That seems like a challenging enough task by itself.
Freeman, nah. That sounds like work.
"As for "squeamish" teachers... I can think of worse problems. Just do your job and teach the material. It's a science topic. Skip the dogma."
Shorter version of what they're trying to do: How do we promote our policies without saying the quiet part out loud?
Pedo Pete has some time to help
- Women tend to suffer psychologically with hook-ups. This seems to be hard-wired into women per the economics of reproduction. Females without male / financial support may abandon or kill their children too.
- Powerful and wealthy males such as Elon Musk can easily obtain and fertilize a harem of eager female brood-mares (he has 13 kids), and kings have done this all around the world for thousands of years. It's a proven human and animal reproduction method. It works "just fine," at least over the short term.
- Old-school religious groups with the moral standards of monogamy, large families, and a strong focus on children routinely inherit the earth. See the population growth among Mormons and the Amish. Hedonists and hook-up crowd have a bunch of parties and then die off.
Who thinks that kids only learn about sex from gym teachers????
When I was a teenager, I went to Catholic schools. That meant no sex ed and no female classmates. When I hit puberty, my parents threw a copy of Dr. David Reuben's book, Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex* (*But Were Afraid to Ask) at me. Plus, there was Playboy and Penthouse.....and the movies.
Can’t they get guidance from Bill Clinton?
Kids are getting sex ed from porn sites,unfortunately. And cable comediennes. Women comedy on Netfix about anal sex and blowjobs.
For those who missed the celery reference, see the Art of Art Frahm. http://www.lileks.com/institute/frahm/index.html
Like a lot of us geezers, I did it the old fashioned way. I found out for myself. And that meant I somehow missed out on a lot of the new fangled stuff where I could get a "hookup" or whatever without a lot of effort and thought on my part.
And as for the feminist revolution and what followed--a lot of y oung women, and some older ones, are figuratively speaking getting screwed. Feminism was and is not an unmixed blessing.
If YouTube can be believed, basically these hookup apps hook up five percent of the men with eighty percent of the women. One commenter described Tinder as "online shopping" for a woman and a "gauntlet of job interviews" for a man. Valentine's Day is basically a commemoration of the dominion of women over men, the primary symbol of it looking remarkably like the instrument of that domination.
There is a lot of consciousness raising for men going on right now, as they used to call it back the '70s when women were doing it.
I am just glad I am out of it. I can't give young people advice, the world is too different.
Gym teacher today: "90% of you guys can leave the room now, because this will never apply to you, we will have the girls vote on which ones of you will be allowed to stay."
It's getting to be like the bird of paradise, where a single male services the entire colony, and the remaining males are just waste, living alone in the wilderness. Good thing that men are good at thinking of interesting things to do to fill their days.
There is a saying that the purpose of a system is the outcome it produces. There is a conservative female YouTube personality who claims, and she is not celebrating this, but lamenting it, that the purpose of all of the effort that went into and goes into feminism is to make it so women don't have to have sex with low value men. She says that society now is basically polygamy on the down-low, with a lot higher percentage of women than men answering surveys that they are having regular sex, to which she responds, "obviously, they are sharing."
It is the first time it made sense why "Fear of Flying" was considered a feminist story.
We had health teachers for sex ed. For some it was also a lab science…
Our grandparents managed.
Bart Hall- very interesting, but I think there is an inconsistency between saying we’re wrong to start with sex, and your Polish Jewish crash marriage anecdote.
Back in the bad old days, people got married for sex. Because it was the only culturally approved way to have sex. Unless they got married because their family leaders told them to. Or unless their spouse died in childbirth, agricultural accident, barbarian raid, etc,and they needed another one right away so their kids could get fed and looked after. Etc.
In other words, people didn’t do the work of establishing an emotional or even practical bond first, or possibly ever. They responded to an imperative - a hormonal one, a political one, an economic one, etc - and then figured everything else out.
Having neither a welfare state nor easy divorce also contributed to keeping those marriages together.
JSM
"mikee said...
My modest proposal: The problem of obtaining irrevocable, undeniable, irrefutable consent for every step of a sexual encounter with another person has only one possible solution. Record full video and audio of the entire encounter from the moment one meets the other person to the moment they leave."
Only one party recording works. And especially well if he informs the other party he's recording before commencing. The only example I know of saved a male ROTC cadet. The accuser- a fellow cadet, and senior to him, accused him of non-consensual sex when she discovered "GASP!" he had another sexual partner. Showed up to his initial cadet hearing, attended by a lawyer, and a representative of the college, eager to kick out the evil male. Charges were laid out. The recording was played. Charges dropped- the senior cadet charged with false testimony- she was bounced from ROTC... The college, wisely, didn't do anything.
Hand it over to Elon. He seems to have a formula for consensual reproduction. New baby mama! And she used to post about wanting BBC.
Yancey Ward said...
"And tomorrow, Frank will figure out how to call Trump a sex offender by writing about celery."
So Hilary Frank is stalking him.
Or, they could use our hard-earned tax dollars to teach things such as reading, mathematics, and job skills. The teens can talk about sex on their own time -- and if mommy and daddy are upset, they can actually teach them some ethics and buy them a constructive book on the topic -- on their own damn dime.
Rocco: "So Hilary Frank is stalking him."
Ba-dum, crash!
Sorry for the late rim shot; had to find my sticks.
JSM
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