January 29, 2025
"Trump has been adamant that the United States should exert control over [Greenland], given both its strategic position in a melting Arctic region..."
"... where China and Russia also have growing interests, as well as the wealth of natural resources that are thought to lie beneath Greenland’s seabeds and frozen wastes.... Trump and his allies do not envision an invasion of Greenland.... Instead, Trump is hoping for Copenhagen’s acquiescence in some sort of deal, framing a U.S. acquisition of the territory as an act of generosity to relieve Denmark of the burden of administering it. There is plenty of historical precedent. U.S. politicians have eyed Greenland for more than a century and a half. William Seward, the U.S. secretary of state who purchased Alaska in 1867, was close to a similar deal for Greenland, but was foiled by political rivals in Congress. With both northern territories folded into the United States, Seward suggested this continental nation 'will flank British America for thousands of miles … and greatly increase her inducements, peacefully and cheerfully, to become a part of the American Union.' That is, he thought buying Greenland would be a precursor to absorbing Canada — a vision Trump hasn’t quite relinquished, either...."
From "The curious momentum behind Trump’s quest for Greenland/In 2019, Trump’s bid for the Arctic territory was laughed off as a joke. Now, it’s gaining traction and provoking jitters in Europe" (free-access link).
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95 comments:
Manifest destiny for the new century.
First of all you need to be indoctrinated enough to believe the Arctic is melting.
Trump’s Folly
melting Arctic region
lol oooooookay champ
Why is the Left so opposed to this? If American wealth, tax payments and security are all improved, what's the problem?
Greenland would be a good place to threaten to send illegal aliens. They'd go back home voluntarily.
President Trump could relocate any Greenlanders who don't like the generous terms back to Denmark, which will graciously be allowed to continue existing. The free ride is over, and I doubt the EU will survive it even if they ended their ill-conceived war with Russia. The wisest thing to do would be to simply begin the independence process and lease a base to America. But the EU is filled with idiot zealots, so we're likely to resolve this the fun way instead.
Power fills a vacuum. In 2007 Russia put its flag in a metal capsule and dropped it from a submarine at the North Pole, claiming the territory as their own. The only serious opposition to Russian control with any military power in the arctic is the US. Unless Canada, Iceland, Denmark, or Norway multiply their militaries by 1,000x overnight.
If the US does not control or strongly influence the region, China or Russia will sponge it up. See Ukraine. See Hong Kong. See Taiwan. See Belt and Road. Classic Great Powers strategy. Not good, not bad, not right, not wrong. Grab it and defend it.
"Provoking jitters in Europe?" Heaven forfend. What's next? The Trump cad must be reined in, lest he give Central America the heebie jeebies!
Greenland - Scenic Relaxation Film With Calming Music
https://youtu.be/zj7kdnWVOxc
China? Looked at a map? What the hell threat could China pose?
"This week, Denmark announced a military spending package of about 2 billion euros for its northern territories"
Might this be the point of Trump's overture?
Two international law problems with the US "buying" Greenland from Denmark. One, Denmark can't legally sell Greenland as it is no longer a colonial of Denmark but is in a federation with Denmark.
The second reason I just learned today. Britain has the right to buy Greenland if Denmark ever decides to sell it according to an over 100 year old treaty:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/donald-trump-wants-to-buy-greenland-but-wait-britain-has-a-108-year-old-right-to-buy-clause-that-puts-it-in-poll-position-to-acquire-the-island-if-denmark-decides-to-sell/articleshow/117652856.cms?from=mdr
The Chinese have ships, planes and money.
Always good to provoke jitters among your allies. Way to go, Orangemandias.
Think of the Arctic as a resource. It might clarify your thinking on the matter.
The Panama Canal is an absolute must. Use the military if necessary. Greenland would be very useful economically and strategically. Surely we can make some sort of deal. I think a military takeover isn't in the cards. I think the Canadian thing is more a "get your shit together" thing.
Krishna on a cracker, does anyone really believe this is about buying Greenland? I can't believe the number of people, some of whom aren't hysterical Lefties, who talk about this like that's actually Trump's intent.
This is about elbowing the Chinese and Russians away from the area. I would bet it's already working.
William Spaniel explains today explains why it can't happen.
Amexpat wrote:
"Britain has the right to buy Greenland if Denmark ever decides to sell it according to an over 100 year old treaty..."
It's not a treaty. It's a proclamation by a former President which, as we know, is easily revoked by another President.
Dumbest comment of the thread: China? Looked at a map?
The whole thing is about keeping China from changing the map.
What the hell threat could China pose?
Chinese control of Greenland would cutoff US/Europe trade by sea and especially air. It is already costing airlines millions to divert around Ukraine. It would be nearly impossible to divert around Greenland if the airspace closed. In an actual war, the sea lanes would get shutdown. You don't need a war to close down airspace for some silly excuse. That's before getting into what Chinese fishing may do to the North Atlantic.
Go pick up a book and do some reading. Find something that talks about GIUK gap.
It doesn't need to melt as much as it used to--ice breakers are pretty good these days.
"Why is the Left so opposed to this?"
You know the answer. It's primarily because Trump is in favor of it. Got to find something to oppose him.
In addition, they probably consider it "colonialism" or something along that line.
The Brits refuse to give up Gibraltar, the Chinese are slowly taking over resource-rich Africa, sooooo, let's take Greenland, why not?
@Rabel: I've been checking the Internet since reading about this. Most of what I found were in British papers where the word agreement was used in connection with a 1917 Treaty. One paper said the agreement was not in the Treaty itself. It could be just a Presidential proclaimation as you said. Do you have a source for that?
I have come to believe that he wants Greenland as a place to house illegal immigrants whose country refuses to take them back.
A straight up cash deal is the least likely scenario. The most likely is Greenlanders vote for independence (thus nullifying the treaty with Britain) and enter into a treaty with the US that gives them money and certain rights under US law in exchange for military bases and mining contracts.
readering: "China? Looked at a map? What the hell threat could China pose?"
One must work very hard to remain this obtuse.
"Allies" that dont meet their obligations and leech off the US for 70 years.
Just the way the democraticals like it.
When the Arctic Ice sheets grow - the left go silent.
but it isn't melting at all, Tim.
John Henry
A bit off point but last night West Taiwan (mainland China) formally told the US it will accept all deported Chinese citizens. He has not even said anything to them about this. Publicly at least. Apparently they looked at Colombia and figured it was better to look cooperative than have to kow-tow later.
John Henry
Amex, there's a copy of the proclamation in this link at NPR.
There are references to Senate approval that don't seem to specifically cite a formal treaty and the two-thirds vote required.
If a treaty exists it shouldn't be this hard to locate, but I'm not sure at this point.
I have read that Greenlanders have the right in Danish law to secede and form their own country but, so far, this meant losing all the financial support provided to the territory by the Danish government. However, Trump has provided a second option- secession and then literally selling the island to the US for several billion dollars, thus keeping all of the proceeds for the population of the island. With 57,000 people, just 20 billion dollars split evenly comes to $351,000 per resident and with US citizenship they would be free to take their wealth and move to Tennessee with no income tax.
The Chinese are also moving into Latin America (e.g., Panama Canal), and all across the old Silk Road across central Asia.
The US keeps Guam, the Marshall Islands, and military bases all over the world. The old USSR did the same. Russia is too disorganized to extend far beyond its borders these days (i.e., the North Pole is close), but China can do virtually anthing they want to do.
Now, is Greenland worth even worth 20 billion dollars? I doubt it- it is all but certain to be covered in the same ice sheet a thousand years from now.
I was hoping to see the Department of Education relocated to Greenland first.
The are partnering (soon to be senior partner) with Russia in the artic. They already are doing business in Greenland and had a deal to provide support to an airport their usual arrangements to have influence on its operation.
Don't underestimate the continuing influence of Soviet/Russian disinformation.
Why would it "provoke jitters in Europe?" Don't they still consider us to be an ally and member of NATO?
I did see that Macron had floated the idea of sending French troops over there to.......do what, exactly?
And they accuse Trump of being irrational.
This is not an issue. Britian doesn't have the money to maintain their current military let alone buy and defend anything like Greenland. I suspect if things got real, Britian wouldn't exercise its option to buy Greenland.
"Britain has the right to buy Greenland if Denmark ever decides to sell it according to an over 100 year old treaty..."
I suspect that since Britian is culturally choking on it's colonial past, there is no way that they would want to purchase Greenland. (Or expand their global influence in any way.)
The irony is that the US already effectively controls Greenland’s defenses through its Pituffik Space Base which has jet fighters stationed there. Trump wants to steal Greenland’s minerals in the same way that mineral rich Russia wants to steal Ukraine’s minerals.
Trump is playing 11-dimensional chess….
White House Rescinds Order to Freeze Federal Aid Funding ~ WSJ
"The are partnering (soon to be senior partner) with Russia in the artic. They already are doing business in Greenland and had a deal to provide support to an airport their usual arrangements to have influence on its operation."
Shhhh!
You'll upset readering.
I also recommend reviewing the ChiCom activities in the Spratly Islands.
You should rid yourself of all things mineral. Including your computer and mouse.
oh never mind on the freeze, Biden made me do it! Let me see How about a buyout on your resignation! Yeah I'll tell Congress about it later(wrong)..Where the heck is Marjorie when this fella needs help
LOL
"This is NOT a rescission of the federal funding freeze.
It is simply a rescission of the OMB memo.
Why? To end any confusion created by the court's injunction.
The President's EO's on federal funding remain in full force and effect, and will be rigorously implemented."
https://x.com/PressSec/status/1884672871944901034?t=4-bkuXYh5i9qvdvsE9pAwQ&s=19
Abacus Boy Rich keeps his 100% hack Incorrect Hot take Rate on track! And the hoaxes just keep flowing....
Its all they've got on the left. The cupboard is otherwise quite bare.
Try and keep up, will you psycho?
Many of the Greenlanders have no Danish ancestors, so they can't return there. Genetically probably more related to the Inuit in Alaska.
You would think that after a full 10 years of one hoax/rupar-ed lie after another that the Althouse lefties would learn to give new accusations an hour or two before jumping on the embarrassing New Soviet Democratical narrative bandwagon.
Nope. Lefties gotta lefty.
And China really want's Siberia which would directly link them to the Arctic.
Seems to much of the world borders aren't sacrosanct and unchanging.
It’s almost like he has no clue how government works… imagine that!
Trump is going to have a lot of King Canute moments over the next four years where hubris comes into contact with reality.
Is Greenland currently Danish territory or not? Who issues their passports? Just kidding, I already know the answer. The Danish can insist that they will not recognize Greenlanders as European, though not only does that defeat the point of any historical claim but also raises large questions about why America has to take in "undocumented persons" with zero allegiance or connection.
The ice is calving with excess mass that accumulates in a cold and stable climate.
The ice is calving with excess mass that accumulates in a cold and stable climate.
The Arctic is not melting. As long as the Isthmus of Panama exists, the Arctic will be frozen over. The Isthmus keeps warm water from reaching the Arctic. The warm currents dive into the depths because the salinity of the current is greater than the surrounding ocean. If the Isthmus was not present, the Atlantic Ocean's salinity would be less and the Arctic Ocean would be warmed by tropical waters.
Sorry LLR-democratical Rich, looks like your islamic supremacist allies in Gaza wont be getting their $50Million worth of condoms!
48-dimension democratical money laundering "chess" nipped in the bud.
But ice-breakers are getting better at all, John.
I read a fascinating book about the US Air Force program to develop the ability to fly jets over the polar region in the fifties. It was a major challenge, and lives were lost. But by 1969, Arlo Guthrie was "Comin' in from London from over the Pole ....".
They have been trained to believe that imperialism is only good when Commies do it.
China?.
Perhaps, but too little too late.
FINALLY , one corrupt felon goes to jail 11 years for Bob..still waiting for Thomas,Trump Alito and so many others to pay the piper.
Britain?
Actually, he has been upgraded from orange to tangerine. We now call him "Mr. Tangerine Man".
Now do student loan forgiveness.
"Not good, not bad, not right, not wrong."
That does raise a question. Is it immoral for Russia to invade Ukraine? Would it be immoral for Russia to try to buy Ukraine? Was it immoral for American and NATO neo-cons to encourage Ukrainians to provoke Russia? Do we see a moral dimension in these matters? Presumably, if invading a foreign country is immoral, the reason is that it disrupts the lives of the people that live there. Eating their pets, for example.
Elbowing?
Is it better for Europe for the USA to acquire Greenland, or for China to acquire Greenland. That's the question that should be asked.
A thousand years from now, that ice sheet may well extend over all of Canada and the northern tier of States. Not really sure how that bears upon the question. A thousand years ago ...
Yes, Kaki, I'm sure he'll give you many a chuckle.
Care to bet how many will take him up on it? DOGE is guessing 5% to 10%. I think that may be low. But it hinges upon the details of the offer, which are rather murky. It seems that they are saying you will be on "administrative leave" until September. So, basically, you get an 8-month paid vacation with bennies while you look for a new job. Nice, but what about retirement? I don't know how that works out.
Another successful Infrastructure Week!
For Drago — it’s alway happy hour Bottoms up sport! 🍸🍸🍸🤡
Why not just buy Ireland? The Irish don't seem to want it.
If we do buy Greenland, the Denmark Strait will now be Trump strait.
We can get over the UK objection, by a merger with the UK, less scotland. The Scots are too leftwing.
Possibly accurate, but I don't think it's quite that simple. The Isthmus has been around for a long time, and so has the polar ice cap. But the cap has been much larger at times.
robother said...
"Provoking jitters in Europe?" Heaven forfend. What's next? The Trump cad must be reined in, lest he give Central America the heebie jeebies!
I wouldn’t worry until it rose to at least the level of jimjams or shakes.
Yes, the island was Green... green and the northern passage was clear because of warm water currents, not climate change. Today, the ice is calving due to mechanical stress under the mass of excess ice formation.
Kakistocracy said…
“Trump is going to have a lot of King Canute moments over the next four years where hubris comes into contact with reality.”
Go re-read the story. It wasn’t Canute who had the problem with reality.
Poor Abacus Boy Rich. He has achieved Full P-Inga status with his drinking ploy when he is out of ammo, which is every single day. Its similar to Li'l Harry Sisson who simply ups the volume and the comms data rate in hopes that will compensate for the lack of substance, hilariously failed predictions, moronic "analysis" and parroted hoaxes.
Spoiler: it doesn't!
Bit early for drinking, wait till Friday!! Bottoms up sport 🤡🤡
If the Greenlanders are interested in becoming a US territory with full internal governance and US citizenship, then let's go for it. They get US citizenship, US funding, internal autonomy and the ability to connect with their Inuit brethren in Alaska visa free.
It didn't take Trump long to whip the Left into a frenzy. What's the over/under in days, on them calling him a Dictator?
Trump should just start referring to his plan as the Greenland New Deal. Lefties here and around the world will line up in zombie-like support.
Amexpat: the US could purchase Denmark's responsibilities toward Greenland as well as British claims, perhaps with a favorable trade deal.
I watched that. Disagreed heavily when he started going the statehood route. Stopped watching because he is usually smarter than that and talking about statehood is too stupid for words.
Is there a morals clause in the 1917 treaty?
Denmark may be getting Little St. James Island back after what Jeffrey Epstein used it for.
Also, are we sure that Balfour didn't promise Greenland to somebody else?
What? You're an only child?
Isn’t it true that you increase the value of a property when you buy/annex adjacent land? If that is true for an individual’s property, could that be true of nations? Making America more valuable, wouldn’t that increase the ability to borrow and spend more? I’m thinking about how to sell it to metastatic TDS Democrats.
What in the alternative facts is going on here 🤣🤣🤣
This is crazy spin even for the Trump White House
"This is NOT a rescission of the federal funding freeze.
It is simply a rescission of the OMB memo.
Why? To end any confusion created by the court's injunction.
The President's EO's on federal funding remain in full force and effect, and will be rigorously implemented." HT/Drago 🍸
@Jupiter: Great Powers function like Great Powers. Their main role is to fill all power voids in the space, be it an island, continent, the entire globe, or space beyond. Smaller countries and economic tiny fish (e.g., the pet eaters) are footnotes in this grand struggle.
There have been treaties over the non-exploitation of Antartica...but minerals and oil...? China has no problem going into Africa, Latin America, and other places that were recently ignored. The issue with Greenland it has been left as an unprotected icy nature reserve...that is very close to Norway's oil and not far from Canada's tar sands and many arctic mines.
Hey people, don't you understand what STOP means?
Are hostess has asked us to stop using the reply function. I don't care how much you think it's cool, it destroys the intelligibility of the conversation here because the only choices for reading replied stuff is either (1) You do it in the main comments window, where people have given up supplying context because of the reply function -- but at least you can resize the text and have it reflow to fit the page like a civilized website does, or (b) You can go into intercomments mode but then If you try to resize to a reasonable size it doesn't reflow and all the lines run off the right side of the page.
Please just stop.
Kirk Parker at 7:03 pm - what if someone does a reply noting who and time the reply is for? Does that provide enough Information?
Now, is Greenland worth even worth 20 billion dollars? I doubt it– it is all but certain to be covered in the same ice sheet a thousand years from now.
Shades of “Steward's Icebox”! Is Alaska worth $20 billion? Sheesh!
Greenland is subcontinental in size. While the large bulk of it is covered by an ice sheet thousands of feet thick, the ice-free parts add up to more than 410,000 sq. km—which is to say, larger than California, Montana, or Germany. Of course it's worth more than a measly $20 billion! Indeed, I'd argue that we should offer the ~55,000 Greenlanders $1 million each, for a total of about $60 billion (as well as granting them internal rights and ownership of territories in Greenland similar to what their Inuit relatives presently enjoy in Alaska).
The Greenland ice sheet, incidentally, actually does appear to be melting at present (unlike Antarctica's great ice sheet(s))—but at a rate that will (if continued) see Greenland's ice entirely gone in… more than 10,000 years.
Though racist and mentally-ill, Inga at least had the decency to disappear, unlike Rich and crazy Icky from Pasadena.
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