December 4, 2024
"The Democratic Party needs to figure out better ways to counter disinformation, including the disinformation that it is elitist."
Writes Patrice La Belle, M.D., in the comments section of the Michelle Goldberg column in the NYT, "If Anyone Can Save the Democrats, It’s Ben Wikler."
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114 comments:
The Democrats need to come clean and admit and eschew their use of disinformation in their lust for power. We all know who are the purveyors of disinformation.
In Democrat speak, disinformation = non-approved facts and opinions.
LMAO. Is it really that hard to counter disinformation? Disinformation can easily be counter with accurate information. They want to counter what they call disinformation by censoring it.
Like Russian Collusion, Jussie Smollett, Justice Kavenaugh, Biden doesn't lie, ect..ect..ect...????? We have had enough of them telling us what they consider to be mis or dis information, when they lie to us every single day of the week. GFY Progressives.
First prove that it's "disinformation." Argument by assertion is not enough.
Ben wikler is the savior?
Isn't he the guy that lost Wisconsin?
John Henry
Tell us again about the rabbits, George.
Well if the M.D. is correct, this doofus has a doctor's degree. But is apparently no smarter than Doctor Jill.
Look out, Ben!
This seems like the kind of conclusion only an elitist would make
For all this hand wringing, it's somewhat likely that Trump, bless his heart, will likely mismanage his way into chaos and unpopularity, and everything being said now will be forgotten as the Dems revert to their old stylebook and return to power. I say that honestly and pessimistically as a three-time Trump voter.
To a progressive, those who complain about "fake news" spread "disinformation". To an anti-progressive, those who complain about "disinformation" spread "fake news".
I wouldn't trust either to censor the other.
She's worried that OTC breaks the NYT monopolistic model of media disinformation.
Goldberg continues in her unmatched category error
The Democrat Party is the party of the rich.
The Democrat Party is the party of censorship.
I wouldn't trust either to censor the other.
Which is why I feel so much more comfortable being on the side that isn't trying to censor!
Dear Dems - don't fix a thing - stay ignorant and corrupt.
The ambiguous IT.
The Democrats are doomed to self-immolation. A new party will emerge from the ashes -- probably. That's how parties generally work. But what it may be is mysterious. Currently there's nothing ideologically outside the Republican Party except socialist insanity, which is already owned by the existing socialist therapy groups who always manage to get a name on the ballot that garners (wink-wink, nudge-nudge, grin-grin) under 1 percent, largely from the Democrats. How sad. And how delightful!
Progress is an unqualified monotonic process: one step forward, two steps backward. They're both progressive in their frame of reference. Liberal is divergent. Conservative is moderate. Multiple, independent sources to improve recovering the truth, or at least the facts.
They are certifiably insane.
"Remember, if a trans girl never undergoes puberty, she does not have any physical advantage on an athletic playing field."
I see what she means about the disinformation.
I love how these so-called elite still think that in the age of social media that success is achieved merely spinning out of a label that has been tattooed in bold letters to the middle of their forehead. Maybe they should be asking those ivy League schools for a refund.
A party game of pin the tale (sic) on the Ass. Let us bray.
You'll notice that Michelle Goldberg didn't say that Democrats should combat disinformation with truth. After we just saw what Biden did when he lied and said he wouldn't pardon Hunter for his crimes against the United States and various underage prostitutes that he sex trafficked.
She just said they need a better way to counter disinformation. Our disinformation won out over their disinformation and she's saying that the Democrat Party needs to figure out how to get their disinformation into people's heads better.
What a bitch.
Define "fake news" & Define "mis-information".
OK? OK!
Fake news and misinformation = Anything that makes a democrat look bad.
We just lived thru the most corrupt administration in history. A corrupt family in charge of destroying our nation for the last 4 years. The left would love to silence millions of Americans who know this fact.
LMAO! The (D)espicable Party is really in the weeds if they think that libtard bureaucrat twerp Ben Wikler is their savior.
Yeah, I know what you mean. These assholes are miles deep. Even if you fire half the bastards in DC, the remainder are still bastards.
They want it replaced with THEIR disinformation.
Why would they do that? The media isn't about to call them out and demand proof of that. The media is HELPING the Democrats to create disinformation channels.
And be sure to get boosted!
Joe Rogan gets 20 million listeners to his daily podcast. Rachel Maddow gets 38,000. And the NY Times tops out at 2 million subscribers.
The information war is over. They lost.
She's the right religion though, so you cannot question her.
fake news is about the source, not the veracity of the information
The New York Times can spread its disinformation to its readers: A total of about 2 million, mostly congregated in a state already held by the Democrats, so it is of limited value. Whereas Joe Rogan can spread OUR misinformation to 20 million listeners daily.
This is what she's bitching about.
There is still a very steep mountain for Team Trump to climb. Hopefully they'll never lose sight of that fact.
"don't force them to undergo a puberty that is often costly, and requires a lot of surgeries to overcome."
No, mutilate them, then get them set for a lifetime of chemical dependency, pain, catheters, and more. It's cheap!!!!
"If Anyone Can Save the Democrats, It’s Ben Wikler."
Save them from themselves?
Democrats as still early in the grieving process, but with the exception of a few lonely voices, they remain clueless as to why the nation rejected them.
The real sad thing is that what are considered elites are among the most mediocre minds this country has ever had.
Actions speak louder than words. Don’t try to battle the disinformation narrative, just demonstrate you’re not elitist.
"The Democratic Party needs to figure out better ways to counter disinformation, including the disinformation that it is elitist" said the woman who pointlessly includes the "M.D." in her comment name.
when has goldberg even accidentally stepped into the truth?
Goldberg's judgment is poor. See the Blogging Heads episode where Althouse took her to school. See https://althouse.blogspot.com/2018/10/this-week-friend-texted-me-i-feel-panic.html
JD Vance is more disciplined and focused, and better at explaining things to the public. He was magnificent on the Sunday talk shows during the campaign. Trump would be wise to treat him as an integral part of his team, rather than consigning him to funeral and ribbon-cutting duties like most Vice Presidents.
JD Vance is more disciplined and focused, and better at explaining things to the public. He was magnificent on the Sunday talk shows during the campaign. Trump would be wise to treat him as an integral part of his team, rather than consigning him to funeral and ribbon-cutting duties like most Vice Presidents.
Exactly. The truth and what Democrats say have never been seen in the same room at the same time.
I think she has proven herself a knave rather than a fool
The genius doctor (whose doctorate is of no more value to this political discussion than is Dr. Jill's) actually has some great advice for dems, stating that losing by such a low margin after having only a 100-day campaign is a "remarkable achievement" and that the Democrat Party "does not need to have a major reckoning on its policies or people, or point fingers at various factions within the party."
She goes on to state that "the Biden administration did more for the people of the country than most of the administrations in the past 100 years." She goes on to name exactly none of them. Funny how every time someone says Biden did lots of good stuff they don't identify anything.
"
This
She isn't just saying the dems need to counter disinformation. What she's really pushing is the idea that the dems SHOULDN'T change their policies. That's the bigger piece of this. As things stand, dem policies mainly consist of (a) unlimited encouragement/subsidization of illegal immigration; (b) promoting the normalization of gender transitioning; (c) knee-cap Israel; (d) decriminalize crime; (e) use U.S. taxpayer money to enrich favored dem constituencies and to sustain the war in Ukraine; and (f) IGNORE real problems, such as homelessness, the drug crisis, failing schools, and the mental health crisis.
My current favorite is the 'we just missed, the election was that close' nonsense the Dems are mumbling to fall asleep.
I just hope he doesn't waste too much political capital on settling scores and winning plaudits on social media. He really only has two years (until the midterms) to seize the momentum and actually get something done. A tall task, and yes Vance should play a leading role.
The aliens failed to show up on the appointed day and take the cult members away to their paradise planet. If anyone can keep the cult going after that, it's Ben Wikler.
It is hilarious, however, that Ben Wikler is the savior- it was Wisconsin that put Trump over 270 electoral votes last month.
Shorter Elite democrats with bad-brains: Democrats are amazing!
How can an opinion be "misinformation"?
Talk about quiet part out loud. "Misinformation" includes any opinion we don't like.
The Problem is Independent Thought.
we MUST NOT ALLOW independent thought
in fact.. we NEED to make these independent thoughts a CRIME
a THOUGHT CRIME!!
LONG LIVE BIG BROTHER! LONG LIVE ENGSOC!!
War is Peace
Ignorance is Strength
Freedom is Slavery
The Democrats are selfie-aborting. The question is not how they survive to bray another day, but rather if they pose a "burden" and therefore not viable.
Is this akin to the “We just didn’t get our message out?” trope that the democrats push after they lose? It is a very arrogant position to take, that of course everyone would vote democrat if they only understood the issues and our position.
I'd like a list of what the democrats believe was republican 'disinformation' promulgated in the election. I really would.
Sure, but neither Hillary Clinton nor Kamala Harris will ever be President. Trump has done everything I've asked of him.
The Democrat party is ALL about disinformation these days. They've been spewing massive disinformation for the last year.
It's also ironic that the author calls on the Democrat party to "counter disinformation" and then immediately puts out disinformation claiming that the Democrat party is not elitest.
There is so much denial going on right now with the Democrats that very few of them seem willing to actually come to grips with the real reasons why they lost the election. (Which means that they will keep losing elections.)
one of those taranto questions no one was asking,
"You'll notice that Michelle Goldberg didn't say that Democrats should combat disinformation with truth."
Good point. Maybe she's talking about fighting fire with fire.
Interesting, completely jumping Gen X for a Millennial after running fossilized Silent Gen Joe Biden and toiling under Silent Gen Pelosi and inserting late Boomer Harris to try to salvage 2024. Trump may really be the last Boomer president, even among late Boomers. But with Vance in the wings, 2028 may go to Millennials, who seem primed to do a Reagan revitalization.
A number of articles this morning are about how the Dems aren't elites. The talking points were handed out during the night.
"The Democratic Party needs to figure out better ways to counter disinformation, including the disinformation that it is elitist."
No. The Democratic Party needs to kick out the radical leftists who have co-opted its organization, and return to its roots as a moderate, populist party, not beholden to elitist donors who press their globalist agenda, which is decidedly not for the benefit of the little guy.
loudogblog said...
"Good point. Maybe she's talking about fighting fire with fire."
"You're a poopy head!"
"No, you're a poopy head!"
"I'm rubber, you're glue; whatever you fart sticks to you."
Dixcus said...
"She's the right religion though, so you cannot question her."
I'd call modern progressivism more of a cult than a religion.
Tell me you have no clue why you just got crushed in the election without actually saying it...
About half of the Democrat commenters at that column had the same message to their own Party.
Quaestor said...
"The Democrats are doomed to self-immolation. A new party will emerge from the ashes -- probably. That's how parties generally work."
And the endings of horror flicks, too.
When presented with facts, they deflect, dissemble, or outright lie, hoping that their bluster will cow dissenters. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and I hope there's plenty of it from the next administration.
Below are the National Intelligence Council's definitions for disinformation and misinformation.
Disinformation - False or misleading information deliberately created or
spread with the intent to deceive or mislead.
Misinformation - False, inaccurate, or misleading information that is spread
regardless of the intent to deceive. An adversary’s intent
can change misinformation to disinformation.
Trusting the "experts" to be truthful doesn't appear to be working. See covid.
All true. I’m underwhelmed by many cabinet picks, but JD Vance is a real positive and a darn fast learner. It’s very interesting that Trump is picking a “Band of Floridians.” They may be more powerful as a group than individually. And it really shifts the power from DC insiders.
It has been funny to watch Democrats whine about Laura Bush and nepotism, when they swooned over brother rapists JFK and RFK occupying more than the White House at the same time.
Probably because Hunter Biden got an elite level pardon from his dad.
Squirm, maggot-brained lefties, squirm.
"Trusting the "experts" to be truthful doesn't appear to be working."
Anything you hear that follows "experts agree" can be safely ignored.
Doctor Patti La Belle can suck it…
Isn't he the guy that lost Wisconsin?
Boom.
I wonder if Dr. Jill will be returning to her private practice after Slow Joe leaves the oval orifice?
Well, as long as churning out this bs keeps them busy…
Back when GWBush was running for President in 2000 a couple of white Texas assholes dragged a black man to death behind their pickup. They got the death penalty. Democrats demanded, based on this case, "hate crime" laws based on racial animus against the victims. GWBush thoughtfully replied something along the lines of "The criminals were sentenced to death. You now want us to increase that penalty for such crimes? How?"
I recall at the time that the Dem desire wasn't for increased penalties against anyone. They wanted to start prosecuting thoughtcrime. And now they are. And now they next want to prosecute doubleplus ungood thoughts alone, without any associated crime.
Don't these idiots see that 1984 and Big Brother were not instruction manuals but warnings against such things?
"The Democratic Party needs to figure out better ways to counter disinformation, including the disinformation that it is elitist."
The working poor and middle class beg to differ. They know beyond all shadow of any doubt that the elitist orientation of today’s Democrats is absolutely not disinformation, misinformation, or in any way false.
I have seen a lot of the Harris campaign “experts”: MBA/MPA consultants, focus group gurus, “gold standard pollsters.” And every one of them so far says they ran a good campaign and did nothing wrong… the party needs to run, not walk away from this cadre.
The old adage: “The surgeon said the operation went perfectly right up until the patient died.”
Also, how deliciously unselfaware is it to accuse people of being ignorant when they think you are elitist? If they were just smarter and more educated like you, they would see that you aren't elitist at all!
That's just how Fredo framed the discussion. "I'm Smart. It's Disinformation to say I can't handle things"
"I'm a DOCTOR, and I'm telling you that it's disinformation that we Democrats are elitists!"
Just as "swiftboating" someone is telling vicious truths about them.
“Help us, Wikler-Ben Kenobi! You are our only hope!”
The first and second tactic of Dem media is as always accusing Trump people of exactly ha Dems always do.
Fake News rolls on.
There's paradigm at work which says that whenever a policy or political candidate fails the problem is in the messaging. For example, after RFK Jr. was appointed head of HHS, NIH convened a SEAN team to work out a response to "vaccine denialism." A SEAN team is the NIH version of a political war room for quick messaging. But there was no need to gather a SEAN team because everyone at NIH already agreed that the way to counter concerns about the Covid vaccine was better PR for more and more vaccines. The report laid out the usual steps the NIH Science Guys take these days which involve finding influencers and getting these influencers to quietly influence the Garbage People without inflaming their stupid red necks by direct contradiction. This was an entirely predictable "strategy" since it's the one in common use in government right now. Missing was the slightest attempt to answer the points made in the Great Barrington Declaration and by Scott Atlas before that.
There was no science there at all except the failed science of "influencing."
And maybe influencers need something to say beyond "You''ll support this if you know what;s good for you." In the election Kamala (or her advisors) attempted to buy influencers. They never tried to say anything directly. "What's wrong with Joe Biden's policies? I can't think of anything. But I'm buying influencers who will try to make you think that I have a great strategy - and that so does he." But as we have known since the BudLite campaign you have to be careful that your influencers aren't alienators.
And this campaign may become a political science classic showing that (gasp) politicians do need to take a stand. All Trump has had going for him over the last eight years was what he stood for - "Make America Great Again" and the associated policies, In the end that was enough to overturn everything else. Obviously, it was better than "America has always been a piece of shit." But it was also better than "We are the experts; we have captured the culture." I hear this as "We are the Skinsuits."The Skinsuit process sums up the left's work here over the last fifty years:
1. Identify a respected institution.
2. kill it.
3. gut it.
4. wear its carcass as a skin suit, while demanding respect
(from David Burge, Iowahawk.)
Others are aware of this process in some other way. But the Skinsuits thought and still think that no one knows The Story of the Suit. That ignorance or what the Garbage People now know about the Skinsuits became very clear in the election where the Skinsuits got a billion dollars to use their influence but didn't have a billion dollars worth of influence.
And the Skinsuits still think they have influence which is clear from the way they criticize Trump appointees. " [Hedgset, Bondi, Patel, RFK Jr., Kushner, Navarro et al] They aren't one of us! Some we put in jail!!" the Skinsuits say. "Not a Skinsuit? Went to jail over it? Say no more," is what we MAGAs think when we hear that. Luckily, the Dems can't hear the Garbage talking back. They don't listen. They just try to keep the garbage from staining their beautiful suits.
The reason that the Democrats can't "get their message out" is because their message is top secret, and if people knew about it, nobody would vote for it.
Yes. You fight disinformation with evidence supporting the truth. When the evidence is as fabricated as the narrative, then you are only creating disinformation which will eventually lose out to those seeking the truth.
The Steele Dossier was fabricated evidence supporting a false narrative that Trump and his campaign was compromised by Putin.
The Wuhan wet market was fabricated evidence supporting a false narrative that the origins of COVID-19 was not from the Wuhan Lab experimenting with that exact virus.
The “AI generated videos of Biden” was fabricated whole cloth supporting a false narrative that President Biden was of sound mind when meeting with foreign dignitaries and capable of running for a 2nd term.
As always, the only problem the Democrats have is a 'messaging' problem. Nothing at all wrong with the dog food. As always...
"The Democratic Party needs to figure out better ways to counter disinformation, including the disinformation that it is elitist."
But it IS elitist (not "Elite", because they're a bunch of morons and scumbags, some of who have credentials, but all of whom are worthless).
"If Anyone Can Save the Democrats, It’s Ben Wikler."
Who is Ben Wikler?
I don't disagree. Still Trump 2017 to 2020 was a naive babe in the woods and played by everyone in DC. If the Republicans had his back they'd never have allowed Mueller.
This time he has an actual political team with a many real politicians on his side, not just a bunch of ignorant friends, family, sketchy business associates, and establishment leakers/double-dealers.
"after RFK Jr. was appointed head of HHS, NIH convened a SEAN team to work out a response to "vaccine denialism." "
This is not the business of NIH, in any case. It is the purview of the CDC.
I so wish our government agencies would stay in their own lane.
An M.D. pontificating about trying to not be 'elitist'. That's exactly what stood out to me.
It's misinformation to say that Democrats are elitist. We know this because we consulted with experts. Top men. And top women. And top transmen and transwomen. And top non-binaries. Who are you to doubt us?
Was she wearing her official white MD uniform?
Obama was Gen X, per the Strauss-Howe dating of generations but he might be the only Gen X President (FWIW, Harris and Walz were Gen X by the same standard). It's not too much of a surprise that we might get eclipsed by Millennials since Gen X is quite small relative to both Boomers and Millennials.
The good doctor is also spinning the, it was a close election and Trump doesn’t have a mandate. What the fuck is with the need for a mandate? He has a republican controlled Senate and House. Mandate. Mandate. I don’t need no stinking mandate.
The Democrats' definition of "misinformation" is "information we don't like."
We need to silence the people who spread disinformation, including the disinformation that we're censors.
The best way for the Democratic party to counter disinformation would be mass suicide.
Did she sell her heart to the junkman?
I'd like a list of what the democrats believe was republican 'disinformation' promulgated in the election. I really would.
Ask Freder. And he'll start screeching about cats and dogs.
Who is Ben Wikler?
Wisconsin D chair. You know, the guy who lost Wisconsin to Trump, as well as presiding over a very questionable outcome in a Senate race.
For the Democrats, anything that causes their head to hurt by credibly calling one of their sacred beliefs into question is known as disinformation.
The brightness of their credentials blinds them.
Free speech or bust!
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