From the article:
“We have a supermajority on all of the bills,” said Sandy Nurse, the councilwoman who chairs the Sanitation Committee and is one of three lead sponsors of the legislative package. “Whether or not the administration wants these bills to happen is irrelevant. They’re happening.”A spokesman for the mayor declined to comment.The success of the Council’s mandate will depend on the Sanitation Department’s effective delivery of the program. But the city’s sanitation commissioner, Jessica Tisch, declined to comment directly on the Council’s legislative package, instead trumpeting her own department’s voluntary program as “easy, no drama, focused on service.”
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Like it or not, this is the future.
"a hale and hearty welcome to our new neighbors, their wealth, and their tax revenue!" - a random Floridian.
Compost, besides stinking, is wet. Is the compost stored in a plastic trash bag before going to the curb?
If you're recycling, most of your garbage is already compost. What a scheme.
DO NOT COME TO FLORIDA
California required this 18 months ago. We're to put our food scraps in with our yard cuttings in the green-waste bin. Supposed to be under pain of penalty, presumably caught by the waste haulers. Haven't done it once, and I don't think anyone else in my neighborhood has either.
It's another of those bureaucratically induced solutions to problems that don't exist, and it might actually turn a non-problem into a real one. Thousands of people intentionally or unintentionally also load up their green-waste bins with actual trash, like used gloves. It's already a labor-intensive job for the sites where the green waste is dropped off to curate the thousands of tons weekly. Adding half-eaten chickens and leftover salmon to the mix makes culling nearly impossible, and the amount of energy expended to do that outweighs the benefits.
I think it's great that such measures can compensate for the thousands of jets exhausting into the atmosphere any given moments.
They can, can't they?
Sounds to me like the start of a new American Revolution…
Happy Independence Day!
Government of the Commisars, by the Commisars, and for the Commisars. And no Citizens dares to fight back for fear they will be disappeared by fake criminal law enforcement. George Orwell was spot on.
But where will they find any new Military recruits?? That may explain the reason for opening our borders.
If you're bailing to Florida do it south of Orlando in brochure Florida. I'm thinking most transplants wouldn't be happy in the northern part of the State. It's all Old South, moonlight, moss and magnolias up here. Lotsa' Lynyrd Skynyrd music wafting out of jacked pick up trucks.
You've been warned.
"Adding half-eaten chickens and leftover salmon" ...
Traditionally, proteins don't go in the compost. Unless you've managed a pit in your own yard, though, how are you supposed to know this? (Proteins attract critters and they don't break down as efficiently.) Unless you've turned a pile for a year so you can fertilize your garden, the actual purpose of compost, you don't have that experience. It's not an urban task.
Austin does this, requiring separation of compostables from recyclables from trash for landfill. And they make you pay based on the size of your residential trash cans. So most people get the smallest sized trash bins to save about $50 per month. I have no proof of where the other trash ends up, that doesnt fit into the smallest bin size, but I strongly suspect the compost and recyclable bin overflows go right into the landfill trash bin.
Yes, it is all for show, now that you ask.
How will this affect the Sanitation Department's efforts at rodent control?
"trumpeting her own department’s voluntary program as “easy, no drama, focused on service.”"
Not good enough. They need the usual prog program--hard, needing drama, focused on coercion.
These citizens are getting exactly> the government they elected. Tough titties...
I'm sure the Soylent Corporation will be interested in the big municipal contracts.
Behold the power of "No." Government has the power to make rules, but we all choose which we deem necessary and choose to follow. Prohibition, the 55 mile per hour speed limit, respecting pronouns of choice, and now composting. The power evaporates when people just say "no".
I stopped recycling some time ago. I never wore a mask outside and only wore one inside to be polite. But I don't follow rules just because they are rules. I don't believe I ever will. I'm an American, and that still means something to me.
How do they know whether you've separated out your compostables?
This is another one of those rules that imposes burdens on rule-followers while letting everyone else run free.
"If you're bailing to Florida do it south of Orlando in brochure Florida. I'm thinking most transplants wouldn't be happy in the northern part of the State. It's all Old South, moonlight, moss and magnolias up here. Lotsa' Lynyrd Skynyrd music wafting out of jacked pick up trucks.
You've been warned."
I grew up in Florida, (Jacksonville Beaches--Lynyrd Skynyrd used to play dances at my high school and at local taverns when I was in high school). I was happy to leave Florida a couple of years after college. I lived in NYC for 40 years--LOVED IT!--and am now relocated more southerly (my wife's wish)...but not in Florida.
Bring your food scraps to city hall. They'll fit in with the rest of the garbage.
Madison had a pilot program and was planning on implementing this city wide. It got shelved because of budget constraints, but I fully expect it to rear its ugly head in the future. These people just never stop saving the world, one onerous, ineffective scheme at a time.
This is another one of those rules that imposes burdens on rule-followers while letting everyone else run free.
Join us, Althouse! Run free!
Millions of personal compost caches densely packed inside skyscrapers. Smell the virtue.
We've kicked the government out of the bedroom. Now it's just rummaging through our garage, the kitchen, the garbage, our bank accounts...
People in Madison already store their 2 bins (trash and recycling) outside, in violation of city ordinance. The 3rd, compost bin will get the same treatment. The rats and raccoons are going to love it.
I don't know where we'd put our compost bin; the garage is already full.
In No. CA, seems like we've been doing this since God was a boy.
Seems a little bit like forced labor.
"How do they know whether you've separated out your compostables?"
They don't. But they can decide to find out. The point is not to know, but to carry the stick.
"This is another one of those rules that imposes burdens on rule-followers while letting everyone else run free."
Not exactly free. Always subject to abitrary enforcement. Which is the main point of these prog rules: to hand prog government more sticks, to be used at prog official discretion.
Why can't people just stop wasting food?
I'm seeing 40% as the estimate of how much of their food Americans throw out.
What's going on there? I try not to throw out any food. I throw out bones and peels and cores and things like that, but not the edible parts. I try to only buy what I know I can eat.
Who's throwing out 40% and why? It seems inept.
When laws are passed that won't be obeyed, respect for the law diminishes.
"I'm seeing 40% as the estimate of how much of their food Americans throw out."
Like so many "facts" we're fed, I doubt this one. Dig into this number and I bet an "advocacy group" is at the bottom of it.
The left will NEVER leave us alone.
Brandeis, in Olmstead v. US (1928),
“The makers of our Constitution undertook to secure conditions favorable to the pursuit of happiness. They recognized the significance of man’s spiritual nature, of his feelings and of his intellect. They knew that only part of the pain, pleasure and satisfactions of life are to be found in material things. They sought to protect Americans in their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions and their sensations. They conferred against the government, the right to be let alone—the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men.”
We just drove through Manhattan last weekend. It was early on a Saturday morning, so no traffic. There were piles of garbage on every street. Perhaps the sanitation department should work on that, first.
Is 40% accurate? I would imagine that 5-10% of food is lost as a result of simple attrition from its preparation.
I try to run my life on principles of stubborn Yankee thriftiness, which, when you think about it, are soundly grounded in ecology. If you're not wasting anything, if you re-purpose stuff to make it last longer, you are in effect reducing your footprint. So food that has been around in the fridge a bit too long, goes to the pups as a flavor enhancement (I make their food myself, weekly), as long as it's good for them. We cook quite a bit, and are careful shoppers. If a melon sits too long or some veggies go by, or the crackers go stale, it's out to the critters with it, into the woods. It's unusual for it to last more than one overnight cycle. But even worms gotta eat.
"Why can't people just stop wasting food?"
Because lots of people aren't very organized. I am close to a family that can't even put away leftovers after supper. So in the morning, that food has to go into the trash. And because they want to never have "not enough to eat", way more food is made than will be eaten. It's just so much easier for them to buy a lot, make a lot, and throw out whatever is spoiled or left over. To defend them a bit, this is a single parent who puts all her energy into her job.
I have no proof of where the other trash ends up, that doesnt fit into the smallest bin size, but I strongly suspect the compost and recyclable bin overflows go right into the landfill trash bin.
At this point, a considerable amount of actual recyclable material ends up in landfills - according to the Smithsonian Magazine (May 2022), about 85% of all plastic recylcables end up in landfills, and another 10% gets burned - only 5-6% actually gets recycled into new plastic products.
Scratch a Progressive and you’ll find a totalitarian.
Consider the heaping portions that are now ubiquitous in restaurants. If you don't take some home it is thrown out.
Hold on...check-washing is still a thing? That seems oddly archaic...
New Yorkers should refuse to comply with the ordinance on environmental grounds. Composing = Fermentation = Carbon Dioxide.
Think of the last time you got distracted while cooking something nice. Bake the garbage. Turn starch into graphite. A useless and futile exercise, yes. You've reduced the biomass, yes. You've transformed biologically active compounds into biologically inert minerals, yes. You've done nothing useful except put the little Hitlers of the City Council on the wrong side of their favorite cause.
I would bet a lot the 40% waste, if the number is accurate, was food prepared for kids who had foolishly ignored admonitions not to spoil their appetites. And now we're all gettin' the blame. Little bastards.
The 40% wastage number is the total across the supply chain, starting at harvest/slaughter. It also ignores that the earlier parts of that chain, at industrial scale, convert waste into fertilizer and feed.
In other words, it's lying with statistics. What a surprise.
The 40% wastage number is the total across the supply chain, starting at harvest/slaughter. It also ignores that the earlier parts of that chain, at industrial scale, convert waste into fertilizer and feed.
In other words, it's lying with statistics. What a surprise.
"I lived in NYC for 40 years--LOVED IT!--and am now relocated more southerly (my wife's wish)...but not in Florida."
Floridians rest more serenely, while the natives south of the Hudson and north of the Suwannee become more vigilant.
"I'm seeing 40% as the estimate of how much of their food Americans throw out."
I thought it was 30%, but geez, who are these people? Especially now. Food is EXPENSIVE! Every time I go to the supermarket I seem to be buying less and paying more. I might have the occasional veggies go bad before I use them all up, so my rate of discardation is under 1%. I can't even conceive of throwing out 30 or 40% of the food I bought. I'm almost thinking these stats are made up!
(Google tells me 'discardation' isn't a real word, but I don't care. I think it works.)
"When laws are passed that won't be obeyed, respect for the law diminishes."
Avoid the passive voice, Roger Sweeney. It's respect for lawmakers that ought to diminish.
"“We have a supermajority on all of the bills,” said Sandy Nurse,"
Bwahahahah--Sandy Nurse--could you have invented a more perfect name for an authoritarian arrogant micromanager?
"Who's throwing out 40% and why? It seems inept."
I agree. In my household we eat everything but the bones, the eggshells, and the used coffee grounds.
I suspect that the 40% number is not actually households, but includes restaurants and grocery stores. That starts to make it believable.
When the kids were young and we were both working full-time, a fair amount of food got thrown out because we didn't follow through on preparing/cooking the produce we bought every week with hope ever on the horizon.
"everything within the state, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State"
Benito Mussolini
John Henry
"Dig into this number and I bet an "advocacy group" is at the bottom of it."
One that's getting funding from the government. Somebody needs to provide the "data" the government uses to justify their ever-increasing micromanagement, after all.
I would bet that the thrown out food percentage is largely based on restaurants and institutional kitchen facilities, which are not permitted (for obvious health reasons) to "save" food once it hits the plate. Or to "use" spoiled food.
We--the US--also produces a superabundance of food. We export more food than any other country. (second was the Dutch, whose commissars are now working to destroy Dutch agriculture.)
I recall Penn (of Penn and Teller) doing a prank at a condo where he would put out new, different colored recycling bins for various new and ever more esoteric categories each week, and interviewed the residents. It was interesting how many people just followed the instructions and how many just ignored them.
I recall Penn (of Penn and Teller) doing a prank at a condo where he would put out new, different colored recycling bins for various new and ever more esoteric categories each week, and interviewed the residents. It was interesting how many people just followed the instructions and how many just ignored them.
What could be more sanitary than having scraps of food decomposing in your garbage can? At least the rats (both the animal and humankind) will love it.
Where I live, your garbage can comes in 3 different sizes, and your waste fees are based on the size of your can. The small is very cheap, practically free, the medium is 3 times the cost of the small, and the large is twice the medium (roughly). Recycling and compost are free.
Recycling and composting is voluntary, but nearly everyone does it. Most people's recycling bins are larger than their garbage bins. No need to make it mandatory, just use the right incentives.
Ann Althouse said...I try not to throw out any food. I throw out bones and peels and cores and things like that, but not the edible parts.
Who's throwing out 40% and why?
You can be quite sure the 40% number is an activist statistic, with little or no science behind it. You can be equally sure that your bones and peels and cores count towards your 40%.
Billions of NYC rats eargerly anticipate seeing thousands of tons of wet garbage being deposited on their streets.
They guffaw, in a ratty sort of way, when hearing the compost will be in "secure" containers.
Advice from long ago, remove any identifying material from your garbage
Call from Officer Obie. He said, "kid, we found your name on a envelope at
The bottom of a half a ton of garbage and I just wanted to know if you had
Any information about it"
And I said, "yes sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie. I put that envelope
Under that garbage."
If they weren't all jammed together on a tiny island, they could just bury the stuff in their back yards. Perhaps a simple move to Staten Island.
"Where I live, your garbage can comes in 3 different sizes, and your waste fees are based on the size of your can. The small is very cheap, practically free, the medium is 3 times the cost of the small, and the large is twice the medium (roughly). "
This is an ill thought out system that I am happy we (for the moment, at least) do not have. When Madison was handing out the mandated garbage and recycling cans I got the largest size because, every once and a while, he have a large item to throw out. 9 weeks out of 10 we have one little garbage bag sitting at the bottom of it come trash day.
Having rats eat garbage is a very efficient way of composting food -- it's converted into little pellets. Given the number of rats in NYC...
How do they know whether you've separated out your compostables?
There will soon be an app for you to turn in your neighbors.
Areas with below-average submissions will be targeted for extra scrutiny.
That 40% includes grocery store perishables. 40% overall is about right.
If you think you throw out less, realize that before you shop, much has already been discarded, and that's on all of us.
Foods go bad throughout the food chain, from fields to your table.
The two greatest improvements in food waste control since 1900 are cellophane and plastic packaging (invented by Paul Dickman in Ruskin, Florida, later Ag. Secretary), and refrigeration. Close behind in this century are planting methods that don't require excess fertilizer, insecticides, and tilling.
It's getting better all the time.
Especially for rats in New York City.
I grew up in Florida, (Jacksonville Beaches--Lynyrd Skynyrd used to play dances at my high school and at local taverns when I was in high school). I was happy to leave Florida a couple of years after college.
Beach rat. My old landline # used to be one of Leonard's extra lines for his real estate business - used to get his calls all the time. I had a beer at the "The Jug" last year just for the heck of it. I was a Westside boy who went to school with guys who formed Blackfoot, but spent his own time doing very different kinds of music. You also could listen to Mouse and the Boys or Cinder Block down at the Comic Book Club, right? I left as soon as I could but came back and appreciated what was here.
It's nicer now than it was then. Much nicer.
I Assume this means.. Delayed garbage pickups like in the '70's?
Should not be a big deal for NYers to separate food from other waste - and then just throw it down the trash shoot in two loads, right before all the recyclable cans and bottles
They gave them a super majority to serve the rodents.
The 40% food waste is based upon the small sample size of the White House kitchen and Martha's Vineyard restaurants.
When my spouse have dinner or take out it is usually two meals worth, one now and one for leftovers, sometimes two. No food is tossed. One full rack of ribs, though expensive, is two meals each.
Playing Devils advocate for a moment, sometimes waste can be turned I to resour es.
I did some work for a pasta company in the 90s. They produced spaghetti in continuous strands looping it over rods for drying. They then cut it into straight pieces, packed it and sold it.
They were left with little "c" shaped pieces. These were sold (given?) to farmers for pig feed.
Someone got the idea of packaging them in 1# bags, putting cartoons and a catchy name like spaghetti hooks and selling them for kids as a fun way to eat spaghetti.
John Henry
I’ve lived all over the country and have always had a garbage disposal. With the exception of celery, fruit pits and bones my waste is ground up and washed away. My garbage is mostly stuff that can’t go in the recycling bin that comes from some product packaging. Am I alone in this?
"I'm seeing 40% as the estimate of how much of their food Americans throw out."
Like so many "facts" we're fed, I doubt this one. Dig into this number and I bet an "advocacy group" is at the bottom of it.
Of course not. Are Americans routinely buying twice as much food as they eat? And if so, wouldn't it be more prudent to help them understand this fact and reduce their consumption?
No sane person can look at themselves and all the people they know and still believe these numbers.
The law cannot be justified on the facts, so the facts must be altered to provide the justification.
It was interesting how many people just followed the instructions and how many just ignored them.
Half the people are of below-average intelligence.
This explains so much.
I suspect that the 40% number is not actually households, but includes restaurants and grocery stores. That starts to make it believable.
Given what we know about household waste and the vastly greater number of households, they would have to throw out WAAAAYYYY more than 40% then, no? Does the math even work if they waste 80 or 90%?
And restaurants and grocery stores are for-profit organizations with slim margins and clear incentives to keep food waste to a minimum.
Even if we could believe that little fairy tale, the MUCH larger effort of having households obey the law would be even less reasonable.
Leave me alone.
Isn't that what America is supposed to be about? But the Dems want to control every aspect of our lives.
A daughter in the Vancouver, British Columbia area says that her city has inspectors who go around looking into your trash barrels and issuing fines for improper management of food scraps.
In Minneapolis food waste recycling is optional. A bin will be provided if requested. I don't want one because I don't need one.
If possible, I feed it to my dog and when not, toss it under the birdfeeder where magically, overnight, it disappears into the bellies of opossums, racoons, and mice, as well as feral cats and dogs. I'm happy, the animals are happy, the food-waste is no more and it doesn't cost the City a single penny.
And for the City, that last part is the problem. My chosen food waste disposal method provides no benefit for union workers, hired to staff and operate the new Department of Food Waste Management.
BTW, the official motto of Minneapolis is, “Everything in the City, nothing outside the City, nothing against the City".
What an absolutely imbecilic policy!
The NYC Rat Czar is now guaranteed employment for life.
Compostibles at the curb on a slower collection cycle, did the actual rats vote in this new policy?
I suspect a lot of the 40% of food wasted is produced tossed from grocery stores because of aging and blemishes.
Original Mike said...This is an ill thought out system that I am happy we (for the moment, at least) do not have
Having lived under that system for a decade, I can tell you it works great. Ironically, the rest of your comment demonstrates why it’s a great system. You have a huge can you don’t need.
The sanitation department will soon notice an increase in the city's sewage flow as citizens exercise their right to flush compostable garbage.
"And for the City, that last part is the problem. My chosen food waste disposal method provides no benefit for union workers, hired to staff and operate the new Department of Food Waste Management."
Not to worry. They'll just hire more union workers to investigate why you're not generating your Approved Minimum Waste for their union brothers and sisters to spill in your yard while picking up what little they manage to get in the truck. And you'll pay for that, too, somehow...
"Who's throwing out 40%"
Golden Corral.
"I suspect a lot of the 40% of food wasted is produced tossed from grocery stores because of aging and blemishes."
Have you ever watched an old lady inspect cherries individually, rejecting maybe 3/4 of them? I have. I worked in a produce store for a short time, a lot is tossed because most people won't buy stuff with blemishes. And handling by prospective buyers introduces a fair number of blemishes.
"We just drove through Manhattan last weekend. It was early on a Saturday morning, so no traffic. There were piles of garbage on every street. Perhaps the sanitation department should work on that, first."
I saw Mayor Adams a coupe of months back on News 12 New York addressing Mannhattan's third-world rat issue and was stunned to learn that in NYC, garbage bins aren't required. The solution? Not bins, just restrictions on when you could put the bags on the curb. I guess the rats will now have to buy alarm clocks.
What a shithole.
"We just drove through Manhattan last weekend. It was early on a Saturday morning, so no traffic. There were piles of garbage on every street. Perhaps the sanitation department should work on that, first."
I saw Mayor Adams a couple of months back on News 12 New York addressing Manhattan's third-world rat issue and was stunned to learn that in NYC, garbage bins aren't required. The solution? Not bins, just restrictions on when you could put the bags out on the curb. I guess the rats will now have to buy alarm clocks.
What a shithole.
"You have a huge can you don’t need."
I do need it; 1 week out of 10. And how is the can hurting you or anybody else? Seriously, where's the harm?
"There will soon be an app for you to turn in your neighbors.
Areas with below-average submissions will be targeted for extra scrutiny."
Das Leben der Anderen.
"If you think you throw out less, realize that before you shop, much has already been discarded, and that's on all of us."
It's on ALL of us? Really? How so? Because I have zero influence on PepsiCo, Tyson Foods, and Nestle. I haven't purchased any of their products in years and as such have zero leverage.
"I'm seeing 40% as the estimate of how much of their food Americans throw out."
That comes from a non-profit called "Feeding America." It is their estimate of the total loss or waste of all food products from your leftovers to crops not harvested and wastage from expiration or spoilage, transport loss, and so and so on. It's bogus from jump street and of course is reported as being your responsibility for throwing out old lettuce.
The CEO of Feeding America is paid over $1,000,000.00 dollars annually. Check their 990.
Throw the compost in the harbor!
"It puts the food waste in the yard or it gets the hose again"
Ann Althouse said...
Why can't people just stop wasting food?
I'm seeing 40% as the estimate of how much of their food Americans throw out.
--
I have a client, overweight mid 50's, seems to think pushing away uneaten food an expression of self-moderation.
I have watched waitstaff offer containers to go but he somehow sees complete waste more virtuous than saving for later.
Is that a Lutheran thing?
He's huge on that...supposedly.
Ann wants to know "What's going on there?" when she discovers that Americans throw out 40% of their food purchases.
It is called compulsive buying disorder (CBD), or oniomania. According to Wiki, CBD is characterized by an obsession with shopping and buying behavior that causes adverse consequences. It "is experienced as an irresistible–uncontrollable urge, resulting in excessive, expensive and time-consuming retail activity [that is] typically prompted by negative affectivity" and results in "gross social, personal and/or financial difficulties".
40%
Do some simple mental math.
Take a full meal. Divide the table almost in half and throw that away.
The figure is bullshit.
If somehow George Washington, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were transported in time to today, they would immediately start planning another revolution.
"'We just drove through Manhattan last weekend. It was early on a Saturday morning, so no traffic. There were piles of garbage on every street. Perhaps the sanitation department should work on that, first.'
'I saw Mayor Adams a couple of months back on News 12 New York addressing Manhattan's third-world rat issue and was stunned to learn that in NYC, garbage bins aren't required. The solution? Not bins, just restrictions on when you could put the bags out on the curb. I guess the rats will now have to buy alarm clocks.'
"What a shithole."
Where did the person see piles of garbage on every street? This is not a normal situation in my experience. Garbage is put out by the maintenance person(s) of each building on garbage pickup day, which may vary in different areas of the city. I do not know if Saturday is a standard trash collection day for any section of the city. In the interim between the hour the garbage is put out (typically, the night before) and the garbage trucks arrive to collect the garbage, the streets will have piles of garbage stacked up outside each building. There may have been an unusual circumstance that explains the piles of garbage, (assuming Saturday was not the pickup day for the area where the witness saw garbage on the streets).
Even the greatest city in the US--New York--cannot make garbage disappear without it being put out for collection.
"Who's throwing out 40% and why? It seems inept"
Particularly since schools don't have to follow Michelle's school lunch guidelines anymore.
How long before we find out it's just being landfilled anyway.
"I'm seeing 40% as the estimate of how much of their food Americans throw out."
Hmmm. Individual Americans? What are they counting as "food"? Beet tops? Watermelon rind?
If I'm to take that staistic at face value I can conclude that starvation in America is virtually nonexistent.
Rable is right. The 40% doesn't come from consumers alone: the only real "food instability" is imposed by negligent parents, and obesity is the #1 health threat among the non-elderly poor.
A bunch of paid activists tried to disrupt the tomato crops in Florida some years ago. They tried to block farmers from burning the tomato plants after harvests, claiming that there were too many good tomatoes left, and burning is bad.
Except all the inedible fruits were fed to cows; farmers invited people to come take what they wanted of the sub-par produce, and the burning produced fertilizer for the next crop.
I know one tomato farmer who just grows marijuana now. They had to install a lot of razor wire around their fields, but the protesters don't complain about burning the crops anymore.
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