"Mr. Biden joined Mr. Zelensky for a visit to St. Michael’s monastery in downtown Kyiv, where the sun glittered off the golden domes as the air-raid alarm wailed...."
Biden wore sunglasses, not mentioned in the text of the article, which does say that Zelensky wore "his signature black sweatshirt with dark green pants and beige boots." Are not the sunglasses Biden's signature sunglasses? Or were they not particularly wanted but especially needed because the sun glittered off the golden domes.
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155 comments:
So our Secret Service would allow our President to wander an area where air raid sirens wail? Huh.
Brought in by balloon.
Our brave leader!
Actually there to pick up his payoff. Diamonds!
Why are we trying to start a hot war with Russia?
Remember when, a year ago, just before the intervention in the Ukrainian civil war by Russia, Zelensky gave a speech at a security conference suggesting that Ukraine should have nuclear weapons, and no western leader pushed back?
It was all goading of Moscow then. It's working out great, Russia's economy has collapsed, its incompetent military has been sent packing, humiliated, and Putin is gone. Those neocons are geniuses!
Back in the real world, Nobody can say that Hunter Biden doesn't deliver on his promised access to his dad, The Big Guy.
Remember when, a year ago, just before the intervention in the Ukrainian civil war by Russia, Zelensky gave a speech at a security conference suggesting that Ukraine should have nuclear weapons, and no western leader pushed back?
It was all goading of Moscow then. It's working out great, Russia's economy has collapsed, its incompetent military has been sent packing, humiliated, and Putin is gone. Those neocons are geniuses!
Back in the real world, Nobody can say that Hunter Biden doesn't deliver on his promised access to his dad, The Big Guy.
Remember when, a year ago, just before the intervention in the Ukrainian civil war by Russia, Zelensky gave a speech at a security conference suggesting that Ukraine should have nuclear weapons, and no western leader pushed back?
It was all goading of Moscow then. It's working out great, Russia's economy has collapsed, its incompetent military has been sent packing, humiliated, and Putin is gone. Those neocons are geniuses!
Back in the real world, Nobody can say that Hunter Biden doesn't deliver on his promised access to his dad, The Big Guy.
He would rather support Ukraine and go there, than the devastated Palestine Oh.
Hardly surprising. Now that Fauci's gone, Zelensky is the USA's new 'highest paid employee'.
It's not just the billions mind, wait till you hear about the benefits package!
" and the two stepped out into the streets of Kyiv even as an air-raid siren sounded...."
Bullshit.
Time to cut the Ukes off and have them settle with Putin. But too much money still to be made, and they must have a lot of Brandon.
"Are not the sunglasses Biden's signature sunglasses? Or were they not particularly wanted but especially needed because the sun glittered off the golden domes."
He always wears those fucking aviators. They had that glassy look of his.
The same crack crew who engineered the disastrous Afghan withdrawal are name playing nuclear brinksmanship with Putin.
God help us all.
"Unwavering support" for the war? I wouldn't bet the farm on that.
"So our Secret Service would allow our President to wander an area where air raid sirens wail? Huh."
If it were Trump, the press would have been quite open about the fact that it's an obvious stunt.
East Palestine OH could not be reached for comment.
Hunter told him to go pick up his own damn 10%.
Theater.
Theater is the theme of today's blog I guess.
Aviator sunglasses because what good is a photo op in a "war zone" if one doesn't look dashing for the photogs? Besides, I imagine he was told he was just going for ice cream.
So our Secret Service would allow our President to wander an area where air raid sirens wail? Huh.
I'm pretty sure they would never just turn the siren on for dramatic effect. Joe also had to run for cover, dodging sniper fire.
Biden to me is scum. That said, when he does something right, give him the credit for it. The Russians have lost the war. Even if they occupy Ukraine, they lost the war. The damage they have incurred in lives and money will take decades to recover from. Their goal of weakening NATO and American hegemony have backfired completely. They have a created a unity amongst Ukrainians as never before and flamed a hatred against Russia and Russians that will last for decades. Russian is fighting a war of choice or rather for Putin's glory and the presumed objectives have been lost. Any Russian hope of recapturing their former empire are gone. As is typical of Russian history, at the end of each chapter it ends badly then it gets worst.
Why, exactly; are we giving "unwavering support"?
WHAT, exactly; does it MEAN, that we are giving "unwavering support"?
Does "unwavering support" include F-16s? Troops? Nuclear Weapons?
What IS "unwavering support"?
What a coup! Our very brave leader facing danger for real!
Are his sunglasses those cool Ray-Ban aviators, first made sexy by Douglas MacArthur?
Were the air raid sirens for effect? Was there an actual attack, or is this propaganda?
I feel terrible for Ukraine. They have been given a raw deal and this war, very much, is not their fault.
That, however, does not make it OUR problem. There are many bad things in the world. Many of brutal wars where people are suffering with unjust aggression against them.
USA is not able to correct all the global wrongs. We cannot and it is still offensive that some people believe we owe it to anybody.
I'd almost say that we're stumbling into World War 3, but stumbling implies that the elites do not see this coming. I think they very much see this coming and applaud it. Will, in their views, silence their critics (cannot be too vocal in a war after all) and enrich themselves further.
When (WHEN) this war goes nuclear.. Will we Still give Biden and Ukraine our unwavering support?
The CIA very shrewdly in choose Zelensky, a Jew. This move was designed to offset Ukraine’s macabre history of anti-semitism and Nazi collaboration.
Zelensky also appears to be bisexual, and he has Hollywood good looks, so he’s a heartthrob for American liberal women.
After the 2014 coup, Victoria Nuland sent in teams of “advisors” to lecture the Ukrainians, most of them Orthodox Catholics, on feminism and gay worship.
Althouse’s philosophy is now the spearhead of U.S./CIA instigated wars. We’re headed toward a nuclear war over this.
I seriously doubt he arrived “unannounced”. It’s just that they didn’t tell the NYT in advance.
Ukraine, if you expect unwavering support from the American government, may we introduce you to East Palestine, OH and Afghanistan. Good luck.
Tim - Yesterday you say the sanctions were all for show. Today you say they're working and Russia's economy has collapesed. Try to be a tiny bit consistent.
And why won't you ever own up to the fact that you want Russia to win? Surely you have an opinion on the matter. Assume the U.S. was not supprting Ukraine - who would yoou root for. Since you spend so much time talking about it - always pro totalitarian Russia and anti Ukraine, which wants to be a part of EU/NATO, why don't you answer the most fundamental question. Who are you rooting for?
"If it were Trump, the press would have been quite open about the fact that it's an obvious stunt."
Tim, the idea that bone spurs Trump would ever take a long train ride to a city that is being regularly targeted by Russian missiles is pretty funny. You are one funny guy.
“That pushed the total amount of U.S. aid approved for Ukraine since the war started past $100 billion.“
Empathy war machine.
Did he bring a plastic turkey?
The mayor of East Palestine is still waiting at the airport. He's holding a sign at the gate that says "President Biden".
America had better put the adults back in charge next year, to have a chance at a future.
Well, that confirms that he is running for re-election.
When is he going to our southern border?
I don't know what to believe about this "war zone". There is more battle footage from WWII and Viet Nam than there is from Ukraine...and we live in an era where every brawl at Walmart and Burger King are caught on video for all to see.
I just saw the video of Biden and Zelensky. That old man shuffle he has. FDR looked more powerful in a wheel chair.
Oh, and did he come under enemy fire when his helicopter was landing?
Unannounced? I thought for sure I read somewhere that this trip was upcoming; did I just dream that?
Zelenskyy: Let me see your war budget.
Biden: ????
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman:
You got a war budget? AHHHHHHHH! That's a war budget. Now let me see your war budget.
Biden::Ahh!
Zelenskyy: Bullshit! You didn't convince Putin. Let me see your real budget.
Biden:Ahhhh!
Zelenskyy: You don't scare Putin! Work on it.
"When is he going to our southern border?"
Being a prog politician means being more concerned about Ukraine's border than our own.
Hey Joe, its about America, Stupid.
Leland: "Why are we trying to start a hot war with Russia?"
Even prior to 1991 it has been an explicit goal of our "best and brightest" to isolate and break up the Soviet Union/Russia ("balkanize it" like the former Yugoslavia) so that those smaller "pieces" could never threaten Europe and could be easily controlled by the West for access to critical raw materials and economic exploitation.
The Russians understand this fully.
When the loathsome Michael McFaul (Stanford academic and longtime "color revolution" "thinker" on bringing down Putin AND Russia) traveled to Moscow as Ambassador in 2012, just 8 weeks prior to elections in Russia, Putin and others there let him know they understood precisely why he was there and that he would fail.
Putin used McFaul and the "color revolutions" in other neighboring nations spawned by the US as campaign fodder and Putin won with 63% of the vote.
The Russians and Russian people understood perfectly well what that would mean in terms of increased Western sanctions and economic difficulties.
Since that time, the Ruuskis have developed an economy and trade relation framework that has blunted the full effects of Western economic sanctions.
Which is why the levers used by the West have not been "persuasive" in getting the Russkis to back off in Ukraine.
"Tim, the idea that bone spurs Trump would ever take a long train ride to a city that is being regularly targeted by Russian missiles is pretty funny. You are one funny guy."
Russia knew where Asthma Joe "Five Deferments" Biden was every step of the way and has zero interest in killing him, at least in any remotely traceable way, as it would dissolve any and all opposition to Joe's foolish adventure in Ukraine inside the US.
Watching posters here carry the water of the war mongers at the CIA is endlessly entertaining.
What's the end game here? Most pro-war commenters have stated the end game is Putin being dethroned (or assumes room temperature). Anyone have a time table for that? Or a dollar figure?
Let's assume, after draining our treasury, Putin is caput. Who pays to rebuild Ukraine? Europe? *cough*
Ukraine and Russia go way back and not in a good way. Neither side is going to “win.” Best case scenario for Ukraine is Russia eventually quits, leaving Ukraine’s infrastructure destroyed, economy in shambles and population dispersed to other countries. Prolonging this war has killed tens of thousands without a meaningful strategic benefit to the US. Russia was always a shell with more bark then bite.
I had a friend who was all fired up about Putin and how he needs to be destroyed. I have a military background and he texted me early on saying “ this is just like a Tom Clancy book! Let’s talk about that the next you come up here.” He has never served but told me stories of what war did to his dad. He is in his 60s and still buys surplus army gear. He is a wanna-be.
I’ve had my war and it’s a terrible thing. So I told him that “he likes war too much” and have never talked to him again.
WHY are we giving them our money to pay for their pensions??
20 percent to the big guy now?
The Dems really don't know how to stop him running for reelection except to send him into a war zone and hope a Russian missile takes care of their problem.
So we instigate a war with Russia, blow up the nord-stream pipeline and give billions to Ukraine to support their pensions.
A very win-win for the military industrial complex. Lot's of advanced weaponry given away so they can build more, no boots on the ground. From their perspective they hope it goes on as long as afghanistan.
jim5301 said...
“Who are you rooting for?”
I’m rooting for everyone who isn’t rooting for anyone.
Meade said...
jim5301 said...
“Who are you rooting for?”
I’m rooting for everyone who isn’t rooting for anyone.
“I Am Not Altogether on Anyone’s Side, Because Nobody is Altogether on My Side.” Treebeard
Maybe Zelensky will take Biden to the front lines to face some artillery fire.
One can hope.
"tim in vermont said...
Remember when, a year ago, just before the intervention in the Ukrainian civil war by Russia, Zelensky gave a speech at a security conference suggesting that Ukraine should have nuclear weapons, and no western leader pushed back?"
I don't think Ukraine should have nukes or use them, but for the sake of history, I'll make these points:
- Ukraine, in 1991 had 1700 nukes, third behind the US and Russia.
- in 1994, they, Russia, US and UK signed the Budapest Agreement in which, Ukraine gave up its nukes in return for:
1. Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.
3. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
4. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against the signatory.
6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments
So they likely are skeptical of agreements and promises
effinayright said...
Timofei in vermont said...
Remember when, a year ago, just before the intervention in the Ukrainian civil war by Russia, Zelensky gave a speech at a security conference suggesting that Ukraine should have nuclear weapons, and no western leader pushed back?
>>>>>>>>>>>>Most of us remember when Ukraine already had nukes, and we talked them out of keeping them, saying we would protect them from the Russkis. How'd that work out??
It was all goading of Moscow then. It's working out great, Russia's economy has collapsed, its incompetent military has been sent packing, humiliated, and Putin is gone. Those neocons are geniuses!
>>>>>>>>>>>>? How was it "goading" Moscow when NATO talked the Ukrainians out of the nukes they had? How was NOT re-arming Ukraine with nukes "goading" Moscow?
>>>>>Your history is completely fucked up. You're a Russian plant, Timofei.
We should all be heartened by the admirable and courageous QuidProJoe's willingness to play Russian Roulette with real Russians!
Timing is suspect. Just as House Republicans are getting onto the bio lab trail as well as other payoffs to the Biden crime family. I bet there will be some private conversations without aides or interpreters. That is the tip off.
At this point the US Government is pissing away so much money, you could get rid of the lower tier 10% tax bracket and give America's working poor some relief.
If you are young, single, make $12 per hour ($24K per year) even with the standard deduction you still owe $1000 to the US Federal Gov't / Ukraine (10% on your first 10K that everyone pays). That's a HUGE number for people in that income range.
Now we are picking up Ukrainian pensions? Sad thing is the people (many young) in the scenario I described are Democrat voters.
Biden and Z alone in a room. No translators or aides.
Z hands Biden $50m-$100m in high grade diamonds. it fits in the palm of the hand; a small envelope. Joe puts it in his suitcoat pocket.
Mission Accomplished!
Convince me I'm wrong.
"Does "unwavering support" include F-16s? Troops? Nuclear Weapons?
Apparently it includes none of those things because no one has provided any of them. If you and Tim weren't so damn obvious in your shilling for Putin, so oblivious to the war crimes associated with the destruction of civilian infrastructure, so nonchalant regarding targeting of civilians and so callous regarding the outrageous conduct by their troops you'd have a better chance of swaying those few of us who are not, like you, afflicted with Russophilism or unaware of exactly what constitutes war crimes.
Obama/Biden's 2014 overthrow of democracy, an illegitimate regime, an apartheid regime, denying essential services to the people of Crimea, eight years of assaulting Ukrainians in Donbas etc. Biden's Slavic Spring in the Obama World War Spring series from funding an Iranian proxy through overridden claims, a premature evacuation of Iraq, to the second Iraq war, from Tripoli to Cairo to Damascus to Kiev in progress and a premature evacuation of Afghanistan.
A dollar invested in the military-industrial complex is worth more than a dollar invested in COVID relief.....It's theater, but it's the right gesture. Biden is not especially inspiring as a war time leader, but you have to go with the leader you have and not the leader you want......If the Russians win--and they might--what will they have won. The Ukrainians now hate them and will do what they can to sabotage Russian occupation. The war will last longer if the Russians win.....At the end of our Civil War, Union troops occupied the south. The white southerners engaged in terrorism. White northerners felt it was more important to integrate white southerners into American society than the Blacks. The Democratic Party was the leader in this effort, and the Union Army evacuated the South. On the plus side, white Southerners again became Americans. On the debit side, Blacks got screwed......Maybe if Putin wins, he can take a page from our history. He can declare a general amnesty for all Ukrainians except the Jews. He can claim the war was all some kind of Zionist plot. The Russians and the Ukrainians both have a long distinguished history of anti-Semitism. Perhaps they can find common ground and launch a new pogrom and those unite their seperate peoples.
"So we instigate a war with Russia"
First a war with Ukraine... Ukrainians, with a violent coup, a Slavic Spring, in Crimea where Russians already present in force intervened, eight years in progress in Donbas etc., and, like Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, etc., a notable lack of empathy from the transnational community who NOW CAIR. Some, Select [Black] Lives Matter
Zelensky gave a speech at a security conference suggesting that Ukraine should have nuclear weapons, and no western leader pushed back? It was all goading of Moscow then.
But of course no nation have Ukraine nuclear weapons. No nation hat taken any steps whatsoever to provide Ukraine with nuclear weapons. No nation has agreed in any form that Ukraine should have nuclear weapons.
So you're trying to tell us that you believe that a request in one speech, completely ignored by all Western countries, is a goad that Russia unavoidably had to act upon, but an actual military invasion is something the West should just have ignored?
What's the end game here?
That's kind of up to the guy who invaded, isn't it?
...
Since that time, the Ruuskis have developed an economy and trade relation framework that has blunted the full effects of Western economic sanctions.
Which is why the levers used by the West have not been "persuasive" in getting the Russkis to back off in Ukraine.
A clear summary of Critical Transnationalist Theory (CTT): We want your resources. You're a "burden". Take a knee, beg, "donate" or else. They offered the same apology in South Africa with the conflict between Mandela's Xhosa and Zulu in the background, and acceptable native collateral damage.
What these wars since the fall of the Soviet Union have cost the US is the trust of the Global South. Read the foreign policy magazines and they are full of stories about why Africa and South America, not to mention South Asia, and much of the Middle East holds Russia and China in higher esteem than the United States.
We squandered the moral capital of our revolution, and the fruits of the victory our fathers fought against Nazism and the Japanese Empire, for what? Oil? Well, Russia is sitting on an estimated $72 trillion in mineral wealth, so all we need to do is break up the Russian Federation into more pliable Ukraines all across Asia and send Hunter to work with his carpet bags.
BTW, the above has been the dream of Europe, dividing up Russia's wealth, for well over a century. Maybe two centuries. If you guys would read history books, you wouldn't be so easily misled.
I don't think the war is any of America's business, but I would not be able to live with it if I were rooting on the side of the nazis. And don't try to tell me that Ukrainians are not the nazis in this conflict, I have been following events there since they started interfering in our election in 2016, and were behind Trump's impeachment. Ukraine's naziism was openly discussed in our press until almost exactly a year ago.
jim5301: "Tim - Yesterday you say the sanctions were all for show. Today you say they're working and Russia's economy has collapesed. Try to be a tiny bit consistent."
Tim's sarcasm was quite easy to pick up on for even average intelligence type folks. But you didnt.
Jim5301: "And why won't you ever own up to the fact that you want Russia to win?"
There is no reason to "own up" to something one doesnt believe...which makes your mindreading "fact" very much a non-fact.
jim5301: "Surely you have an opinion on the matter. Assume the U.S. was not supprting Ukraine - who would yoou root for."
Probably America first and in particular an East Palestine OH as an example. Beefing up our southern border as a second example. Byt gey, we all get it, you guys just really want to pay for corrupt Ukrainian government officials pensions.
jim5301: "Since you spend so much time talking about it - always pro totalitarian Russia and anti Ukraine, which wants to be a part of EU/NATO, why don't you answer the most fundamental question. Who are you rooting for?"
What if I told you its more than likely the actions of the US and NATO have made it more more likely for a BRICS coalition to create a truly counterbalanced geo-political/economic/military pole that would truly rival the US which is busy hollowing out its own society?
And here's an interesting exit question: Ukraine is not part of NATO yet the US and UK have spent billions developing the port facilities to host US and NATO naval forces to act as a Black Sea Fleet base of operations opposite Crimea so why wouldnt the russkis see that as a direct threat to their only warm weather port operations?
jim5301 knows as much about Ukraine as he knows about any other topic: nothing.
"No nation has agreed in any form that Ukraine should have nuclear weapons."
Zelensky gave a major speech days before the invasion, while Russian troops were massed on Russia's border, and Ukraine was massing forces and upping the artillery barrages on ethnic Russians in Donbas, and after Biden had written a letter paving Ukraine's way into NATO, asking for nuclear weapons. And in this powder keg of a situation, no western leader told him to simmer down.
NATO wanted this war, they believed that they had drawn Russia into a trap. Read a little history about how WWI started. Get a little background on how wars are started. Hint It's almost never what the people at the time are told. Macron all but admitted it in his speech this week, or at least his speech made no sense if it weren't true.
"The Ukrainians now hate them and will do what they can to sabotage Russian occupation"
Would it make you feel any shame for your country if you understood that this was America's goal all along? Give Russia a headache? All because Putin gave a speech in 2007 to this same conference suggesting that the US should not be the sole decider of world affairs, and John McCain fumed in the front row, his face livid at the words?
"My country right or wrong" is a lousy heuristic for understanding events.
I have a hard time understanding the pro-Putin and anti-Ukraine comments from otherwise intelligent commenters. We spend $800bn a year on defense. Roughly one quarter of that is for NATO. Trump badgered the members of NATO to up their spending to 2% of GDP. Putin demonstrated why there is a need for NATO and now they are spending the money. In a year or so Russia will be a spent force enabling us to spend a lot less on NATO and be able to more effectively pivot towards the Pacific and blunt Chinese expansionism. Russia recognized the border of Ukraine in 1993 in exchange for giving Ukraine's inherited missiles and nuclear weapons. Russian got along fine with Ukraine until Putin decided he wanted to renege on Russia's guarantee. All of the excuses the Russians made were garbage, they were as if only Russia has the right to determine which country it chooses to be made part of their sphere of influence and their buffer zone and the other countries aren't really real but colony's of Russia. Putin is a disaster for Russia. When he starts drafting white boys in large numbers from Moscow and St. Petersburg is when he will have to worry about a lynch mob. All this gnashing of teeth and fear mongering about WW3 is ridiculous. We and the rest of NATO are not going to send troops to Ukraine so unless Putin actually conquers Ukraine and invades Poland or invade the Baltic states all of the angst is just nonsense. The Ukrainians want to fight to get the invaders out so their deaths is on them and the Russian deaths are all on Putin.
I have a hard time understanding the pro-Putin and anti-Ukraine comments from otherwise intelligent commenters. We spend $800bn a year on defense. Roughly one quarter of that is for NATO. Trump badgered the members of NATO to up their spending to 2% of GDP. Putin demonstrated why there is a need for NATO and now they are spending the money. In a year or so Russia will be a spent force enabling us to spend a lot less on NATO and be able to more effectively pivot towards the Pacific and blunt Chinese expansionism. Russia recognized the border of Ukraine in 1993 in exchange for giving Ukraine's inherited missiles and nuclear weapons. Russian got along fine with Ukraine until Putin decided he wanted to renege on Russia's guarantee. All of the excuses the Russians made were garbage, they were as if only Russia has the right to determine which country it chooses to be made part of their sphere of influence and their buffer zone and the other countries aren't really real but colony's of Russia. Putin is a disaster for Russia. When he starts drafting white boys in large numbers from Moscow and St. Petersburg is when he will have to worry about a lynch mob. All this gnashing of teeth and fear mongering about WW3 is ridiculous. We and the rest of NATO are not going to send troops to Ukraine so unless Putin actually conquers Ukraine and invades Poland or invade the Baltic states all of the angst is just nonsense. The Ukrainians want to fight to get the invaders out so their deaths is on them and the Russian deaths are all on Putin.
William: "If the Russians win--and they might--what will they have won. The Ukrainians now hate them and will do what they can to sabotage Russian occupation."
What does "winning" look like to the russkis?
Just a guess here, but a "complete" russki victory in Ukraine probably means:
- Retention of all russian ethnic dominated areas including Crimea in the East and South
- Russki control of Odessa to landlock what remains of Ukraine as well as hook up russki controlled territory with russian controlled Transnistia in Moldova (estimates of russki military personnel in Transnistria are between 2k to 3k)
- Pushing the northern Ukraine-Russki border at least 100km south along the Kharkiv-Kiev axis to hinder any future rocket attacks or drone ops against Russia from Ukraine
- Send a powerful message to the West that any the current groundwork being laid for another "color revolution" coup attempt against the pro-Russki govt in Belarus will be forcefully opposed (estimates of russki troops in Belarus range from 25k to 45k).
So that might be what Russia thinks victory might look like.
Note: given the population flows the russkis would not have large Ukrainian populations to deal with.
I have a hard time understanding the pro-Putin and anti-Ukraine comments from otherwise intelligent commenters. We spend $800bn a year on defense. Roughly one quarter of that is for NATO. Trump badgered the members of NATO to up their spending to 2% of GDP. Putin demonstrated why there is a need for NATO and now they are spending the money. In a year or so Russia will be a spent force enabling us to spend a lot less on NATO and be able to more effectively pivot towards the Pacific and blunt Chinese expansionism. Russia recognized the border of Ukraine in 1993 in exchange for giving Ukraine's inherited missiles and nuclear weapons. Russian got along fine with Ukraine until Putin decided he wanted to renege on Russia's guarantee. All of the excuses the Russians made were garbage, they were as if only Russia has the right to determine which country it chooses to be made part of their sphere of influence and their buffer zone and the other countries aren't really real but colony's of Russia. Putin is a disaster for Russia. When he starts drafting white boys in large numbers from Moscow and St. Petersburg is when he will have to worry about a lynch mob. All this gnashing of teeth and fear mongering about WW3 is ridiculous. We and the rest of NATO are not going to send troops to Ukraine so unless Putin actually conquers Ukraine and invades Poland or invade the Baltic states all of the angst is just nonsense. The Ukrainians want to fight to get the invaders out so their deaths is on them and the Russian deaths are all on Putin.
jim5301 said...
"If it were Trump, the press would have been quite open about the fact that it's an obvious stunt."
"Tim, the idea that bone spurs Trump would ever take a long train ride to a city that is being regularly targeted by Russian missiles is pretty funny. You are one funny guy."
With Trump it wouldn't be neccessary.
Remember. YOU voted for this. This is your mess.
Lets not forget that during the Chechen uprising against Russia when salafist islamist Chechen terrorists were committing terrorist acts against the russian civilian populace, including the horrific attack agsinst russian school children, the US was funding those very same salafist Chechens.
Some will say "but the Russkis did even worse agsinst Chechens" to which I would reply: its all true; welcome to the rest of the world.
Drago, your response explains the Cold War strategy, but it doesn’t answer my question. We are no longer just sanctioning Russia. We are sending war material and aid to Ukraine that allow for offensive operations. How about demanding Zelensky negotiate a ceasefire with Russia?
Blogger n.n said...
"So we instigate a war with Russia"
First a war with Ukraine... Ukrainians, with a violent coup, a Slavic Spring, in Crimea where Russians already present in force intervened, eight years in progress in Donbas etc., and, like Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, etc., a notable lack of empathy from the transnational community who NOW CAIR. Some, Select [Black] Lives Matter"
Did the Ukrainian Army remove the then president or did he flee because his people hated him for trying to sell them out to Russia? Ukraine was about to get close to the EU and NATO then the deposed president reneged and went pro-Putin. Facts matter. No country has ever been free and prosperous under Russian influence. No former Soviet Block country beside Belarus wants to come under Moscow's thumb and Belarus is carefully parsing it's support for Putin.
Interesting choice of a way to spend President's Day.
'Expendable' Biden is...
this war serves the interests of the ones who want to destroy this country, but emptying our stores, our fuel, just like the lockdowns destroyed main street and created a class of overlords like phizer (they were already rich, but became stupendously so)
- Russki control of Odessa to landlock what remains of Ukraine as well as hook up russki controlled territory with russian controlled Transnistia in Moldova (estimates of russki military personnel in Transnistria are between 2k to 3k
*************
If Russia blocks Odessan exports, it will find that can't get its own goods out of the Black Sea. Look at a map, fer chrissake!
Has something gone awry with the Ukrainian kick-back machine??
Over $100 billion in military aid, and apparently the "Big Guy" isn't getting his 10% in the kick-back.
All this gnashing of teeth and fear mongering about WW3 is ridiculous. We and the rest of NATO are not going to send troops to Ukraine so unless Putin actually conquers Ukraine and invades Poland or invade the Baltic states all of the angst is just nonsense. The Ukrainians want to fight to get the invaders out so their deaths is on them and the Russian deaths are all on Putin.
You are a hell of a lot more comfortable with a possible war than I am. For one thing, we have troops in Ukraine. An administration that ,lies about minor things like the jobs report, lies about everything. If Putin invades Poland, we have drained our national inventory of weapons and sent them to Ukraine. That's great for the Military Industrial Complex but not so good if we need the stuff soon, by which I mean ten years,
I look at it as more of a big middle finger to Ohio residents.
When that shit gets to the Chocolate city will it matter more then?
Did the Ukrainian Army remove the then president or did he flee because his people hated him for trying to sell them out to Russia?
Neither. Ukraine is the beneficiary of a Slavic Spring.
demanding Zelensky negotiate a ceasefire with Russia
Apparently, that was already reached with coordination of the Turks, and overruled with a demand from DC.
pro-Putin and anti-Ukraine
Pro-Putin? No.
Anti-Ukraine? No.
"Tim, the idea that bone spurs Trump would ever take a long train ride to a city that is being regularly targeted by Russian missiles is pretty funny. You are one funny guy.
You're right, because there would be no invasion.
"Trump badgered the members of NATO to up their spending to 2% of GDP"
I am sick of paying for everyone else's problems, aren't you?
"enabling us to spend a lot less on NATO"
Man, you're naive.
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) was enraged by President Biden’s “incredibly insulting” trip to Ukraine and later called for his impeachment.
This is from the conspiratorial Qanon believer who invented Jewish Space Lasers in her mind and has declared herself to be a Christian despite wishing death on Ukrainians.
Biden in Ukraine.
How heartwarming to see a withered old man visit the country he loves in his sunset years.
"Tim, the idea that bone spurs Trump would ever take a long train ride to a city that is being regularly targeted by Russian missiles is pretty funny. You are one funny guy."
LOL
Asthma Joe was in zero danger. Looks like we have another idiot who also buys into "hillary landed under fire" schtick.
You remember Joe's deferments for asthma, don't you? It was right after he was offered a full ride to the Naval Academy (as a post-grad! wink wink) and right before he was an All-American running back for an all black college where he attended Puerto Rican synagogue every single week.
"Did the Ukrainian Army remove the then president or did he flee because his people hated him for trying to sell them out to Russia?"
That's what elections are for, not violent coups egged on by the likes of John McCain in Maidan Square, or Lindsay Graham. Once the legitimate government of Ukraine was overthrown, you don't get to claim that one side is legitimate and the other are "separatists" just because the US immediately recognized the violent coup leaders. Significant parts of Ukraine rejected the coup, and so this war has raged for nine years. A war we helped instigate, and into which we have been pouring weapons.
Just because we took Kiev's side, doesn't make them the rightful ruler of the whole of Ukraine, anymore than the fact that Moscow took the Donbas's side does them. It will be settled on the battlefield and with negotiations that both sides sign off on.
If the states east of the Mississippi took over the Capitol and the White House via armed mob, and claimed to be the legitimate rulers of the United States, after driving out the elected president, are the residents of California and Texas then "separatists" because China recognized the new "rulers"?
If not, why not.
“As 2022 drew to a close, America’s costly involvement in the Russia-Ukraine War, combined with extravagant spending by King
Joey I, had left it on the brink of bankruptcy.”
Future history… from the future.
Funny, Biden didn't visit American troops even after his debacle evacuation for Afghanistan
He isn't visiting Americans in Ohio who are suffering under the failures of the federal government in rail safety administration and disaster response.
But as they say, "Follow the Money".
Does anybody ever wonder why the huge colloquy of battleships in Pearl Harbor set there as sitting ducks when they should have been busy on the high seas enforcing our oil embargo against the Japanese Empire? Yet all of the aircraft carriers critical to the coming war effort had business elsewhere...
Wars do not start for the reasons we are told, and goading a country into a war by putting them in increasingly difficult situations is not that hard.
I am not saying that war with Japan was not inevitable, I am just saying that we weren't talked into it with charts and graphs and logic and reason.
effinayright: "If Russia blocks Odessan exports, it will find that can't get its own goods out of the Black Sea. Look at a map, fer chrissake!"
Talk about "fer chrissake".
Yeah, I've seen the maps pal. And since you aren't paying very close attention you might want to provide to us all the reasons why Turkey would refuse to allow russian transports to pass thru the Bosporus and the Dardanelles?
Turkey ALREADY refused Ukrainian requests in 2022 to prohibit Russian warships from transiting both straits.
Further, you might want to recall that it was just in the last few weeks that Turkey registered its firm disapproval for adding Sweden and Finland to NATO.
Turkey would love love LOVE to be tossed into that decision briar patch.
So thanks for your "insight" effinayright. Very......helpful..or something.
Leland: "Drago, your response explains the Cold War strategy, but it doesn’t answer my question. "
It's not the "Cold War strategy".
It's been the US/West's Russian strategy ever since the wall fell. It's been percolating at high tempo since the 90's and is running on overdrive for the last 20 years.
Leland: "We are no longer just sanctioning Russia. We are sending war material and aid to Ukraine that allow for offensive operations. How about demanding Zelensky negotiate a ceasefire with Russia?"
Because our "best and brightest" desperately want this to be a long term war of attrition. They really don't care if it chews up half the Ukrainian population as long as it structurally weakens Russia. The problem is Russia is not being structurally weakened at a pace that can be sustained by the West without cranking up our war machine much more and harming our economy even more.
And before everyone chimes in and asks "well aren't the russkis terrible?!", the answer is they are all terrible over there. All of them. None of them represent our values...and in fact WE don't even represent our values any more.
The russians have 130 million people. They are not giving up on taking some or all of the elements I outlined above. The russki leadership knows they are in an existential battle for their political and physical survival (the leadership, not the nation). So they aren't backing off at all.
So, what's there to negotiate?
cubanbob: "I have a hard time understanding the pro-Putin and anti-Ukraine comments from otherwise intelligent commenters."
Calling anyone who looks at a geo-political/military confrontation objectively "pro-Putin" really does demonstrate a lack of "understanding".
Perhaps less time spent labeling others and more time spent just looking at what has happened, what is happening and some historical and cultural insight might help.
But I doubt it.
I can see Biden's first 2024 campaign ad. Like Michael Dukakis, he's in a tank (gotta be an old Soviet T-34) with a huge helmet on, his aviator glasses reflecting in the sun and he's pointing his arm at the enemy! (oops, I mean at the Capitol building) where his enemies (oops I mean the Republicans) are thwarting his efforts to move the country into a glorious future! Too bad the concept and moniker of "The New Soviet Man" is already taken. But I'm certain that Joe (or Jill) will devise some catchy slogan for "The New Something and Something". It'll be inspiring for at least 81 million people.
The most disappointing aspect of this subject is if your are against the never ending funding of this war you are labelled as Pro-Putin. That is ridiculous. How sophomoric. Putin is an evil guy. That doesn't mean we commit our financial future to this war.
Were Muammar Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein bad guys? Yep. We got rid of them. That worked out real well, didn't it?
I asked earlier: What is the end game?
To which someone responded: "That's kind of up to the guy who invaded, isn't it?" Not exactly a well thought-out response. Up your game sir.
Some military expert was asked what would happen if Putin used a tactical nuke.
His response: "We would destroy the Russian's Black Sea fleet in a heartbeat". Pause ......
Follow up question was not asked was: "Well, what then would Putin do?"
Second question, also not asked: "What then would Xi Jinpingpong do?" (read: Taiwan)
@Drago: "Large population flows." Isn't that another way of saying ethnic cleansing? Everything has gone according to Putin's well crafted plans. There's no reason to question any of your points regarding his ultimate plans for peace in that region which will undoubtedly insure peace for generations to come....I understand that the Serbs and Croats sometimes live in peace and get along well for years. Their differences are minor and they have much in common. And then sometimes they try to completely exterminate any Serb or Croatian minority that lives within their midst....I couldn't tell the difference between a Serb and a Croatian or a Russian and a Ukrainian, but apparently they can. I think the Croatians and Serbs have reached some kind of accommodation, before the next round of mass murder. Not so much right now with the Ukrainians and the Russians, but maybe if Putin gets his way, the Ukrainians will let bygones be bygones, and they will all move forward together towards peace and prosperity.
"We did notify the Russians that President Biden would be traveling to Kyiv. We did so some hours before his departure for deconfliction purposes," White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan told a press briefing."(Zero Hedge)
“Perhaps less time spent labeling others and more time spent just looking at what has happened, what is happening and some historical and cultural insight might help.”
Drago, you have the nerve to say this? YOU, of all people. The guy who sounds like the propagandist trained in Russia, you and Tim.
William: "@Drago: "Large population flows." Isn't that another way of saying ethnic cleansing?"
There are different levels of "ethnic cleansing" (see Hutu/Tutsi's) and in this case it leads to population flows in both directions having been committed by both sides.
William: "There's no reason to question any of your points..........bygones be bygones, and they will all move forward together towards peace and prosperity."
This must have been the point when you ran out of anything useful to say.
Humperdink: "The most disappointing aspect of this subject is if your are against the never ending funding of this war you are labelled as Pro-Putin."
Usually, but not always, voiced by the densest of the dense.
The most disappointing aspect of this subject is if your are against the never ending funding of this war you are labelled as Pro-Putin. That is ridiculous. How sophomoric. Putin is an evil guy. That doesn't mean we commit our financial future to this war.
When you understand they are Pro-Taliban, it all makes sense.
The indifference to American suffering and lavish spending on a crappy ally in Ukraine is so on-brand for the Democrat Party and their RINO war fans in Congress. This is not our war and they are underestimating American resistance to Joe's stumbling into WWIII act.
Russia Collusion Truther and Hillary/FBI Hoax Dossier Dead Ender Inga: "Drago, you have the nerve to say this? YOU, of all people. The guy who sounds like the propagandist trained in Russia, you and Tim."
LOL
Crawl back into your little conspiracy hole. You know, the one where you still believe the hoax dossier was "mostly proven true".
Too funny.
Mike (MJB Wolf)L: "The indifference to American suffering and lavish spending on a crappy ally in Ukraine is so on-brand for the Democrat Party and their RINO war fans in Congress. This is not our war and they are underestimating American resistance to Joe's stumbling into WWIII act."
Unfortunately, they are not underestimating their ability to install whomever they like into office.
The problem is Russia is not being structurally weakened at a pace that can be sustained by the West without cranking up our war machine much more and harming our economy even more.
Serious Questions (to which, i DON'T have the answer, but would Sure Like to:
How many 155mm howitzer shells are left, in the world today?
How many of those shells are in russian hands?
How many are now being produced every day?
How many of THOSE, are in russian hands?
and finally... a Final, Serious Question: who is structurally weakening WHO?
oh! Bonus Serious Question!
Of the existing 155mm howitzer shells, and current 155mm shell production.. How much of That is Chinese?
Biden, his son, sister, and at least one brother are all seen wearing Ray-Ban sunglasses frequently--do they have an endorsement deal with the company? That kind of branding might yield 10% for the big guy, but I'll never wear Ray-Bans now.
jaydub said...
in response to my question:"Does "unwavering support" include F-16s? Troops? Nuclear Weapons?
Apparently it includes none of those things because no one has provided any of them
So, you ADMIT, that Biden's "unwavering support" doesn't include those.. How "Unwavering" IS his support?
cubanbob said...
I have a hard time understanding the pro-Putin and anti-Ukraine comments from otherwise intelligent commenters.
The problem is not with the intelligent commenters. The problem is with your inability to deal with their arguments and your subsequent need to malign their intent with your stupid and malicious characterization of their opinions as "pro-putin."
We spend $800bn a year on defense. Roughly one quarter of that is for NATO.
And none of what is going on in Ukraine serves any US or NATO interest.
Trump badgered the members of NATO to up their spending to 2% of GDP.
Because that was in our interest.
Putin demonstrated why there is a need for NATO and now they are spending the money.
Putin did not attack any of his neighbors during the Trump Presidency because Trump understood the problem and forced Russia to mind it's own business. Putin attacked Ukraine during the Biden Presidency because the Biden Regime took numerous steps to make the war happen. Biden made many remarks on many occassions begging Putin to invade Ukraine.
In a year or so Russia will be a spent force enabling us to spend a lot less on NATO and be able to more effectively pivot towards the Pacific and blunt Chinese expansionism.
This is so stupid and wishful and ignorant it just stands on it's own. We are spending money we don't have sending technologically advanced weapons to Ukraine and most of those weapons are just being sold on the open market. The corruption and self dealing going on with the "Aid" we are sending there is out in the open.
Next post you will complain about inflation and have no idea where it comes from.
Russia recognized the border of Ukraine in 1993 in exchange for giving Ukraine's inherited missiles and nuclear weapons. Russian got along fine with Ukraine until Putin decided he wanted to renege on Russia's guarantee.
The US openly trying to pull Ukraine into NATO and running bioweapon labs is one thing. Funding the killing of Russian ethnics in eastern ukraine was another thing. Posting a coup on 2014 to install a pro-west regime was another.
All of the excuses the Russians made were garbage, they were as if only Russia has the right to determine which country it chooses to be made part of their sphere of influence and their buffer zone and the other countries aren't really real but colony's of Russia.
Russia is run by an evil dictator. It also has enough nukes to halve the human population. Of course Putin is going to have stupid lies to justify his war in Ukraine.
That is why if you don't want him to run a bullshit invasion of Ukraine you do the things that keep that from happening like Trump did.
But Biden wanted this war. He made it happen and dumbass people like you think Putin just did it for reasons.
Putin is a disaster for Russia. When he starts drafting white boys in large numbers from Moscow and St. Petersburg is when he will have to worry about a lynch mob. All this gnashing of teeth and fear mongering about WW3 is ridiculous.
You are an ass.
The people of Russia and Ukraine are real people that do not want any part of this war. They would be happy to let the Russians live in Russia and the Ukrainians to live in Ukraine.
But there you are on your high horse cheering for the people of Russia and Ukraine to fight to the bitter end so the corrupt shitheads in DC can launder our tax dollars back to themselves.
We and the rest of NATO are not going to send troops to Ukraine so unless Putin actually conquers Ukraine and invades Poland or invade the Baltic states all of the angst is just nonsense. The Ukrainians want to fight to get the invaders out so their deaths is on them and the Russian deaths are all on Putin.
This is pure dishonesty. Eastern Ukraine is 80% ethnic Russian. Ukrainians have been killing them since 2014 when Yanukovich as overthrown in a Nuland led Coup.
You are just full of nonsense. You support ethnic cleansing and open corruption with your stupidity.
After traveling under a “cloak of secrecy” I hope the dementia-addled Biden remembers to talk with the Z-man under the Cone of Silence!
Inga said...
“Perhaps less time spent labeling others and more time spent just looking at what has happened, what is happening and some historical and cultural insight might help.”
Drago, you have the nerve to say this? YOU, of all people. The guy who sounds like the propagandist trained in Russia, you and Tim.
Inga has nothing to say.
A very dim bulb.
But she has a history of supporting groups like the Azov Battalion.
Humperdink: "The most disappointing aspect of this subject is if your are against the never ending funding of this war you are labelled as Pro-Putin."
Drago: "Usually, but not always, voiced by the densest of the dense."
Case in point:
Russia Collusion Truther and Hillary/FBI Hoax Dossier Dead Ender Inga: "The guy who sounds like the propagandist trained in Russia, you and Tim."
Inga can't find Ukraine on a map but is an expert on russki trained propagandists.
LOL
That "Cloak of Secrecy" looks a lot like a Boeing 747 with UNITED STATES OF AMERICA emblazoned along the fuselage, in widely spaced letters, all capitals, using the Caslon font.
Shhhh. Not a word.
Humperdink, 1:20:
"Some military expert was asked what would happen if Putin used a tactical nuke.
"His response: 'We would destroy the Russian's Black Sea fleet in a heartbeat'."
Yes, and do you know which military expert? The one who famously asked of the Iraq war, "Tell me how this ends."
I'm for supporting Ukraine. I hope they kick the Russians back to their borders. And I'm weary of those who blame every country Russia ever invades for getting themselves invaded by Russians. Or blame us, as it turns out we're the only country in the world with any agency.
But the people who think Russia would never ever use a tactical nuke there, rather than admit defeat, are deluding themselves. And I worry we're getting into NASA pre-Challenger logic: Well, we didn't think it was safe to take this chance, but we did and it worked out fine. Clearly you worry too much.
Effinayright never misses a chance to miss the point entirely. Look at a map fer christsakes! More importantly, try to comprehend what has been written.
gilbar: "Serious Questions (to which, i DON'T have the answer, but would Sure Like to:
How many 155mm howitzer shells are left, in the world today?
How many of those shells are in russian hands?
How many are now being produced every day?
How many of THOSE, are in russian hands?
and finally... a Final, Serious Question: who is structurally weakening WHO?"
Great questions. Unfortunately, we live in a New Age Of No Questions Allowed You Putin-bot!
"Interesting choice of a way to spend President's Day."
If only he could be left there.
This administration devotes far more time and money to NON-US citizens than to the people who live and work here...the people whose interest he is supposed to be representing.
He works hard for illegal aliens and Ukrainians while inflicting economic chaos on the rest of us.
Old and slow said...
Effinayright never misses a chance to miss the point entirely. Look at a map fer christsakes! More importantly, try to comprehend what has been written.
***********
You are more than aptly named.
Turkey controls access to the Mediterranean.
Do you disagree?
The anti-Zelensky crowd would win more support if they didn't say so much that is demonstrably false. Three examples:
Drago (1:02am):
"And before everyone chimes in and asks 'well aren't the russkis terrible?!', the answer is they are all terrible over there. All of them. None of them represent our values."
Really? No difference? The Russians bombard civilian neighborhoods, schools, and hospitals every night, sometimes killing a dozen, sometimes as many as 40+ with one 2000-pound warhead hitting an apartment building. They also bomb all utilities, openly saying they aim to makes the Ukrainians starve, freeze, and die of disease, so they all move to Western Europe. The Ukrainians do not fire at civilians on either side of the border: they only blow up airfields, ammunition dumps, military bases, other military targets, and sometimes bridges. It's the difference between systematic war crimes, including ethnic cleansing and (attempted) genocide, and fighting according to the laws of war. And poor Drago can't (or won't?) distinguish.
Achilles (first 3:16pm comment):
The U.S. is "sending technologically advanced weapons to Ukraine and most of those weapons are just being sold on the open market". Really? Could I buy some cool weaponry if I have enough money and maybe a private island to stow it on and avoid import duties? Where is this open market? What hours is it open, on what days of the week? Do they take dollars or would I need to pay in euros, or rubles, or hryvnia? Is it like the classic car markets in the U.S. where you have to bring a trailer and haul away what you buy the day you buy it, or can I pay now, pick up later? If you can't answer these questions, it's not really an "open market", is it?
Achilles (second 3:16pm comment):
"The people of Russia and Ukraine are real people that do not want any part of this war. They would be happy to let the Russians live in Russia and the Ukrainians to live in Ukraine."
This is true of the Ukrainians: that is the stated aim of this war, they haven't asked for an inch of Russian territory, though quite a lot of the border areas are majority ethnic Ukrainian and have been parts of Ukraine in the past. It is simply false of the Russians. We know a lot about what they think: they're polled frequently. The best place to start to find out what they're thinking is @JuliaDavisNews or @wartranslated on Twitter. The war is getting less popular, but very few give a damn about Ukrainians killed, tortured, raped, or kidnapped by Russians: they just want their fellow Russians to either conquer Ukraine or stop dying in huge numbers.
gilbar: "Serious Questions (to which, i DON'T have the answer, but would Sure Like to:
How many 155mm howitzer shells are left, in the world today?
How many of those shells are in russian hands?
Not sure if this will help. The US and Nato use 155mm shells. Ukraine uses about 10,000 a day. Current US production is 14,000 a month.
Russia uses 153mm shells and uses about 20,000 a day. Ukraine is currently producing it's own 152mm shells and it is claimed that Russia has limited the use of it's 152mm shells because of shortages.
effinayright said...
"Turkey controls access to the Mediterranean."
Turkey also controls access to Northern Iraq. Remember how it responded to US request to allow US troops to move into Iraq through its territory in 2003?
Dr Weevil,
Your schtick seems to be: first label any critics of Kiev/Biden as purveyors of Russian propaganda and then proceed to 'refute' their arguments by reciting Ukranian propaganda verbatim.
I don't know how effectively such tricks may work in legal circles, but to me you are pathetic.
Dr Weevil: "Really? No difference? The Russians bombard civilian neighborhoods, schools, and hospitals every night, sometimes killing a dozen, sometimes as many as 40+ with one 2000-pound warhead hitting an apartment building."
The AFU spent 8 years bombing and attacking russian ethnic areas in Ukraine and systematically attacking civilians, in particular those Ukrainian units which are openly neo- nazi.
At this point, by your own standard of "proof", you must clearly approve of that.
Is that because you consider them subhuman or is there some other reason you approve of those attacks?
Your rhetorical "rules", not mine. Of course I suspect there will be some Calvinball maneuvering to make it all okey-dokey
So yes, I will repeat: they are ALL like that. Their animosities and deep tribal hatreds and "tit for tat" actions span a thousand years and none of them can forget and none of them can move beyond those memories.
But hey, lets just go spend another $120B or $200B or a trillion $ (whatever it takes, right?) in Ukraine (those Swiss bank accounts and pension funds wont fill themselves!) while people in the US are told "drop dead".
And lest we forget, the more we focus on the non-existential threat in Eastern Europe, the only real long-term existential threat (the ChiComs) continue on their merry way.
Precisely as designed by our DC "betters".
Dr Weevil: "The Ukrainians do not fire at civilians on either side of the border:"
Jesus.
I've posted thousands of comments here over the last 10? 12? years, so it should be easy to tell where I'm coming from. Somehow, Candide seems to think I'm a lawyer or at least hang around in legal circles. I've only once in my life even hired a lawyer, for a routine job, and that was 20+ years ago. His judgment on what counts as "pathetic" or where I get my information ("Ukra[i]nian propaganda"?) is as pathetically ignorant as his assumption about what I do for a living.
Drago repeats more Russian propaganda. In fact The AFU spent 8 years bombing and counter-attacking Russian troops sent across the border in large numbers, as well as their thuggish local allies, who often dressed as civilians or hid behind civilians, like Palestinian and other terrorists. They were led by Igor Girkin (look him up), a Russian from Russia who openly boasts of starting the violence in Donbass by seizing the armory in Sloviansk, where he murdered civilians, beat Gypsies, and lots more, before shooting down a Malaysian airliner with 298 aboard. The whole "uprising" was in fact fomented and controlled by the Russians, and still is. They've incorporated the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk armies into the Russian army, and the two provinces (plus two more that were never Russian) into Russia, without consulting the inhabitants.
The idea that the overthrow of Yanukovich was some kind of western plot, rather than a popular uprising against a mass-murdering traitor, is another bit of Russian propaganda.
And no, the Ukrainians do not fire at civilians on either side of the border. The Russians accused them of hitting an apartment building in Belgorod with a missile, but too late: civilians in Belgorod had already posted cell-phone video of a volley of missiles being fired from Belgorod at Ukraine, one of which misfired, went off-course, and fell on the apartment building in Belgorod. Do you claim that the Russians do not fire volleys of missiles (plus drones and artillery) at civilian areas of Ukraine every night? Do you claim that Ukraine ever does?
Candide said...
effinayright said...
"Turkey controls access to the Mediterranean."
Turkey also controls access to Northern Iraq. Remember how it responded to US request to allow US troops to move into Iraq through its territory in 2003?
&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Uttely immaterial. Turkey is a NATO combatant against the Russians RIGHT NOW, supplyng the Ukrainians with thousands of drones being used all over the country.
See this:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=is+turkey+denying+Russia+passage+through+the+dardanelles%3F&atb=v346-1&ia=web
@Drago:
And lest we forget, the more we focus on the non-existential threat in Eastern Europe, the only real long-term existential threat (the ChiComs) continue on their merry way
*****************
Estonians would take issue with that statement, ditto the Moldovans and Poles. They have this...history...with the Russians...
efginayright: "Uttely immaterial. Turkey is a NATO combatant against the Russians RIGHT NOW, supplyng the Ukrainians with thousands of drones being used all over the country."
Yes, Turkey doesnt mind at all grabbing some of that sweet sweet US cash for drones while SIMULTANEOUSLY refusing to block russian warships and cargo ships from transitting to/from the Black Sea and the Med...which also generates lots of sweet sweet cash.
So why would you think the russkis seizing Odessa would cause Turkey to cut off a big revenue stream?
Dr Weevil: "Drago repeats more Russian propaganda"
This guy probably thinks the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the blowing up of the Maine were stories completely on the up and up.
Okay, we get it. The Ukrainian armed forces are basically Mother Theresa clones in fatigues.
There's alot of propaganda floating around here alright.
Alot.
And history must be whitewashed...again.
Effinayright: "Estonians would take issue with that statement, ditto the Moldovans and Poles. They have this...history...with the Russians..."
And there's just as many Asian peoples that have this...history...with China.
Probably alot more in fact.
Drago: "And lest we forget, the more we focus on the non-existential threat in Eastern Europe, the only real long-term existential threat (the ChiComs) continue on their merry way"
effinayright: "Estonians would take issue with that statement, ditto the Moldovans and Poles. They have this...history...with the Russians..."
Stupid me, thinking about this from an Americans First perspective.
I forgot you guys are all about America Last now.
"Russia is a strong power, and I have never said that we are at war with the Russian people today. Negotiations are needed, the Ukrainian president should hold talks with Russia,"--Emmanuel Macron
According to the Althouse Blog Keyboard warriors, clearly the President of France is pro-Putin and a traitor and wants Russia to win.
Gov. Ron DeSantis says U.S. has no "interest" on getting involved in "proxy war," slams "blank checks" from Biden admin to Ukraine
"What is the strategic objective? [...] Just saying it's an open-ended blank check [to Ukraine] is unacceptable."
This is a very big first step on the national security front by DeSantis who now, according to thinking demonstrated on this thread alone by effinayright/DrWeevil et al, is clearly a traitorous and treasonous pro-Putin bot.
Welcome to the club Gov DeSantis. Its getting quite crowded over here.
For those pro-war types who in insist the US ..... er .... Ukraine can win this war, dream on. Think Putin will pick his marbles and go home? His troops are cannon fodder. And China is his trump card. Good grief, don't be so short sided.
I asked several months ago, where are the peacekeepers? Where is the UN? The blue helmets?
"I asked several months ago, where are the peacekeepers? Where is the UN? The blue helmets?"
Ah. Humperdink. They're going want a cut too. So that's a hard no. The graft is enormous, but not THAT big.
Drago just can't stop lying by implication. In his 10:27pm comment he says I 'probably think' things that are completely the opposite of what I actually think. Then he implies (without quite stating, because that's the kind of weasel he is) that I think that "The Ukrainian armed forces are basically Mother Theresa clones in fatigues". Of course, I never said or thought any such thing. I said that the Ukrainian armed forces are in general following the Geneva Convention, while the Russians are blatantly and proudly violating them in every way they can. (A month or two ago, a couple of Russians put on Ukrainian uniforms to get the drop on some Ukrainians. It looks like the Russians realized there was a provision in the G.C. they hadn't violated yet, so they decided to remedy the omission and go for a perfect record.)
Since he hasn't answered, I will ask him again: "Do you claim that the Russians do not fire volleys of missiles (plus drones and artillery) at civilian areas of Ukraine every night? Do you claim that Ukraine ever does?"
Just last night, a Russian missile killed six and wounded a bunch more at a bus stop in downtown Kherson, far from any Ukrainian military target. They do that sort of thing every night. Does Drago deny this? Does he think Ukraine is bombing bus stops in Belgorod? He needs to answer both questions or be damned as a lying weasel and (yes) propagandist.
And Achilles needs to come back and answer my question about where we would find the supposed "open market" selling advanced U.S. equipment sent to Ukraine.
effinayright said...
"Estonians would take issue with that statement, ditto the Moldovans and Poles."
So we shall listen to Estonians, Moldovan and Poles, but we can just order the Turks what to do?
Cherry picking school of international diplomacy, also known as wishful thinking.
Dr Weevil: "Drago just can't stop lying by implication. In his 10:27pm comment he says I 'probably think' things that are completely the opposite of what I actually think. Then he implies (without quite stating, because that's the kind of weasel he is) that I think that "The Ukrainian armed forces are basically Mother Theresa clones in fatigues". Of course, I never said or thought any such thing."
Turnabout is fair play amigo. On every one of these threads, the realists are smeared as pro-Putin.
If you don't like those rules, don't create those rules. If you create those rules you will be held to those rules.
If you don't like that, then cease being a weasel and you'll get much less of that in return.
Dr Weevil said...
And Achilles needs to come back and answer my question about where we would find the supposed "open market" selling advanced U.S. equipment sent to Ukraine.
At this point you are just a dishonest. You cowardly board warriors who charge people like me with supporting Putin are just real pieces of shit.
Start here with what is happening to the arms we are sending.
This is not a morality play. You are not a good person for supporting this war.
I have seen what goes on in wars. I volunteered and actually fought. It is not white vs. black. We killed children. We did things that were not intended, but they are just going to happen.
You are supporting the Azov Battalion which is explicitly neo-nazi and they are stashing and selling the weapons we are sending them.
Your bullshit chickenhawk crap on this board does not compensate for your cowardice in the real world.
Drago pretends I've called him "pro-Putin". I called him "anti-Zelensky" in my first post on this thread, which makes his efforts pro-Putin in effect (there are only two sides). But I don't believe I've ever suggested that he is motivated by love of Putin - I think the Zelensky-haters here are motivated by hatred for Biden, gross ignorance of what's actually happening in Ukraine, and a stupid unwillingness to admit that Biden (or his handlers) could possibly do anything right.
Nobody's perfect: even the very worst presidents have been known to do some good things. Disastrous as he was in other ways, Jimmy Carter deregulated airlines, trucking, and several other fields, which gave Reagan's economic recovery a head start. Similarly, Biden's support of Ukraine is the right thing to do, even while everything else he does is horribly wrong.
Will Drago answer the questions I've asked him twice now (last 2 sentences of my 9:56pm, 2nd paragraph of my 11:21am comment)? All signs point to no. His last comment looks like an admission that he is lying about me but thinks that's OK if he calls it "turnabout".
One more thing: of course I don't consider De Santis a pro-Putin traitor as lying Drago claims in his 11:59pm comment. I agree entirely with De Santis that "an open-ended blank check [to Ukraine] is unacceptable". Duh! Ukraine can win the war with what is already being sent, plus some F-16s or equivalent aircraft and some longer-range missiles to win the war this year and thereby cut down total casualties on both sides. If they ask for (e.g.) F-35s, F-22s, B-52s, an aircraft carrier, nuclear weapons, NATO air support, or NATO ground troops, of course they should be (and will be) refused. Again, duh!
Note that we've been supplying previous-generation mostly-surplus NATO technology, which is proving vastly superior to even the most up-to-date Russian technology. That itself is a strong deterrent to (e.g.) China and North Korea.
Pathetic liar Achilles is upset that I called him on his lie that "most" (!) of the "technologically advanced weapons" we send to Ukraine "are being sold on the open market". I naturally imagined that he meant something like the open market in sex slaves that ISIS used to have in Rakka on the Syria-Iraq border, where any man with money could go in broad daylight and openly buy a Christian, Yazidi, or Kurdish woman (also at least one American) to keep as a slave and rape whenever he felt the urge. Until Trump and his local allies shut down the slave market by crushing ISIS and liberating 99% of the territory they held – a deed that even his supporters rarely mention, and done with few, if any, American casualties.
Achilles made it sound like anyone with enough money could similarly buy an American M1 tank, or Bradley fighting vehicle, or HIMARS missile system from Ukrainian sellers, in broad daylight, if they knew where to go. His link of course utterly fails to back up what he wrote. It's from 13 months ago, before Putin invaded Ukraine, and it's all about how British (not US) shoulder-held anti-tank weapons (basically modern bazookas) being supplied to Ukraine could theoretically fall into the wrong hands: most of the article is "could" or "would" or "might". Did any of them? It's been 13 months: has Forbes done a follow-up article about whether their fears were justified? Note that the only evidence in the article for Ukrainian soldiers selling weapons was two incidents involving three soldiers total, and the only named weapon (the RPG-22) they tried to sell was in fact a Soviet bloc model. So Achilles' "most" turns out to be not a single example yet known of Ukrainians selling US or NATO weapons.
The U.S. just sent a shipload of Bradley fighting vehicles to Ukraine, which is fighting for its existence as an independent democracy. Does Achilles really think its soldiers will sell 150+ ("most") of the Bradleys rather than use them to drive out the Russians?
I suppose that knowing (at least subconsciously) how badly my questions humiliated him was what drove Achilles to his unforgiveably vile insults. 'Chickenhawk' used to be used to insult supporters of sending American troops to Iraq or Afghanistan while not volunteering themselves. I do not in fact support sending any U.S. troops to Ukraine: they don't want them, don't need them, and it would just make Putin even more paranoid.* Only a liar or a fool (or someone who combines the two) could therefore call me that. I suspect Achilles also meant to imply the other meaning of 'chickenhawk' – an old gay man who preys on much younger men. Again, no resemblance in any way (well, I am old) to my personal life, but a pointer to what kind of shit-eating rolling-in-the-mud ugly foul-mouthed swine Achilles is. It's really a shame that he uses such a noble name for his contemptible child-killing (or so he says: maybe he's lying) self.
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*Lots of Russians already think there are thousands of American troops fighting in Ukraine, and – being racists – say that half of them are black. The only blacks I've heard of fighting in Ukraine were a Zambian and a Tanzanian killed fighting for the Wagner Group after being recruited from Russian prisons. Those two countries are a lot more anti-Russian since getting the bodies back.
Dr Weevil said...
Pathetic liar Achilles is upset that I called him on his lie that "most" (!) of the "technologically advanced weapons" we send to Ukraine "are being sold on the open market".
What happened to the US equipment we left in Afghanistan?
Same thing is going to happen to what we are sending to Ukraine now.
We gave Al Quaeda and the Taliban thousands of pairs of gen 4 night vision sets.
You are a stupid coward.
None of your stupidity here this makes you anything else.
Odd that Achilles keeps calling me a 'coward' without offering any evidence. Have we met in real life? Not knowingly. Is it that I hide behind a pseudonym? So does he! Is it that I support sending American troops into battle while dodging the draft myself (one Bush-era definition of 'chickenhawk')? I do not, and he knows it, though he does not have the grace to admit it here, because that would require an apology, which he is of course too much of a coward himself to provide. It would require a second apology for the implication that I'm a gay sexual predator and pedophile (the other non-avian mean of 'chickenhawk'), which he almost certainly knew when he wrote it. If he didn't know it, he needs to apologize for gross ignorance, and for pretentiously using vocabulary he doesn't even know the meaning(s) of.
His prediction that future events ("is going to happen") will retroactively justify his bald-faced lie is of course another lie. It is still utterly false that "most" of the weapons the U.S. has supplied to Ukraine can be bought right now on the "open market". And the only way that anything like that will happen is if Russia wins the war, with the help of achilles and his misguided allies. An honest man would have gracefully admitted that he had very much overstated his case, got carried away by his 'anti-war' passion, said "what I really meant to say was", and so on, instead of doubling down and adding vile insults.
His last sentence is ungrammatical and unintelligible, also stupid. Stupidity does not cause cowardice, nor cowardice stupidity: they are entirely unconnected vices. Having both, and falsely accusing others of having both, as Achilles does, does not make any real connection between them.
I would suggest that 'achilles' change his name to 'thersites', but that would be unfair. Even the worst and foulest-mouthed man in the Iliad was a better, braver, and more intelligent man than our 'achilles'. He really is a shit-eating rolling-in-the-mud ugly foul-mouthed swine.
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