From "J.D. Vance Gets Canceled/Can’t a Republican Senate candidate make one little crack about not caring about Ukraine?" (The Bulwark).
ADDED: Vance went to Yale Law School. He wrote that highly acclaimed memoir. Then why does he come across as so dumb when he's doing politics? I have a theory that I came up with to try to understand some of the really dumb things Laurence Tribe tweets. It's that a person who is too far above the normal range has trouble thinking of how to speak to people of normal intelligence, that is, the people he needs to reach in order to be successful in politics. He knows they're significantly less intelligent than he is, and he adopts a style that he imagines to be at their level. But he's goes too far. He knows other people are — comparatively — dumb, but he overshoots the mark. Those whose intelligence is just modestly above average are shooting from a closer range and can hit the target more accurately. That's very annoying to the truly superior folks. That's why — I think — Trump drove Tribe absolutely stark raving mad. And stark raving madness doesn't improve your aim!
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The Senate campaign in Ohio has been a dumpster fire from the beginning. A write-in or third party candidate who is motivated could possibly win over Mandel and Vance in the Republican primary. If not, I will be looking closely at the candidates of other parties in the general.
It must be hard for a Rock Ribbed Trump Shirttail relative to turn down an opportunity for an endorsement from Tokyo Rose.
"'Secure our Southern Border and NOT Ukraine’s Border!"
This is "controversial"?
O let Crimea go, and had to: "securing Ukraine's border" would have been folly. Joe greenlighted a "minor invasion"; and whaddayaknow, minor turned major.
Dems also don't secure the southern border, which is folly: an actual vital interest. The fact they don't treat it as such means they don't want the U.S. to continue as it now exists.
Besides the Biden grifters and Victoria Nuland, who did care about Ukraine before the invasion?
Vance cites the hundred thousand deaths a year from the fentanyl laced heroin coming in from China across the border. If thar isn’t a crisis - I have no idea what is one because it’s literally murder / war from the cartels.
Vance has his priorities for Americans - unlike some here who think it’s a joke.
Bulwark gonna Bulwark.
Bulwark gonna bullshit.
Awful choices for Ohio US Senate election. Hard to get excited about any of them from either party..... Vance seems to go back and forth on many issues. Finger in the wind. Mandel is sleezy.. Maybe Timken? Democrats Tim Ryan and Morgan Harper running on student loan forgiveness and minimum wage issues......
I'm so old I can remember when it was possible for the US to both send vast amounts of armaments around the world AND protect our southern border.
That was back in the days before lawfare, though. So now we can arm other countries but can't protect our own.
I liked Vance out of the gate, but the more he talks, the more he makes the kind of mistakes you only see from people who don't really believe or even understand the issues they are pushing. More and more, he comes across as just another unprincipled politician who doesn't believe in anything except that he should be in office.
Vance used to look like a candidate with potential centrist cross-party appeal. He's been so crude and clumsy in trying to swing rightward for the primary, though, that that image is gone. It's hard to see how he'd successfully pivot back to the middle.
During the Iraq war, and about when Obama was first running for president, it was a very common talking point to say instead of rebuilding Iraq, we should be rebuilding America. All that money we were spending to build roads in Iraq, we could instead be spending to build roads in America. I don't see how that argument is much different than Vance's argument, except that Iraq's roads were a disaster in part because we had bombed them. It was a problem we had helped create that we were trying to set right.
I don't think Vance was wise to say what he said, but it is interesting that Caring About Ukraine has become some sort of thing that must be done, when caring about Libya, Syria, Yemen have all fallen by the wayside, and caring about Georgia and Crimea were not ever anything that really happened.
I do have great sympathy for Ukrainians. I have the utmost contempt for Putin. But there are a lot of politics involved in how much we are getting emotionally involved in it, and the requirement of performative empathy.
Tell me where he's wrong.
Biden should be impeached for what he's let happen to the Southern border.
It's a disgrace.
The drugs (fentanyl alone) that are killing tens of thousands every year are just a tiny part of the problem.
There is a fix in plain sight, most of it already paid for, and yet the wall-building was completely shut down.
Criminal.
@tim "I liked Vance out of the gate, but the more he talks, the more he makes the kind of mistakes you only see from people who don't really believe or even understand the issues they are pushing." Heh. The kind of mistakes made by normal human beings. You really want politicians to be nothing but the media creatures we have today, who launder their every sentence before they say it?
They literally never tell the truth, just what they think they should be saying.
"highlighting Vance’s ill-informed and callous (not to mention electorally stupid) comments " in The Bullwark - but not quite exactly the date of those comments.
Very much electorally stupid - why not put some numbers on it? 'I care more about 1,000 Americans dying by fentanyl than 10,000 Ukrainians being killed by Putin's illegal invasion.' Despite living next door in Slovakia, there is some tradeoff in "caring". All should care about all, but not equally. I certainly care about my family more than I care about anybody else's.
I also support Free Speech, including Putin's speech and Russia Today.
"Vance is also under fire for investing in the platform Rumble with his political sugar daddy, Peter Thiel. Rumble, if you’re not familiar, is YouTube for those who have been “canceled” by Big Tech.
Mostly that means your garden-variety far-right, white-nationalist types. But Rumble is also the new home to RT, the Kremlin’s propaganda channel."
OTOH, such decisive and thorough condemnation of Russia is probably causing Xi to more heavily weigh the costs side of his analysis about invading Taiwan.
To get World Peace, we need borders that mean innocent countries don't get invaded. Such a norm requires enforcement, and all enforcement has costs. Losing out on a win-win trade for oil with Russia is one such cost. One the USA should pay (it's merely income).
Reducing Free Speech by reducing the speech of "Evil Putin"? Or (not-really) "evil Vance"? My prior position would have been against censorship; now, as part of punishing Russia, it seems less bad.
But I liked RT a bit (better than CNN) - in English, it criticized dumb & corrupt Republicans AND Democrats and most Americans.
The alt-economy Christian semi-Republican GabTV also has RT. Here's a no-sound minute of SE city Mariupol under seige.
https://tv.gab.com/channel/rt/view/people-on-their-way-out-of-62347f99037befcece155c23
"Bird's eye view of residential buildings damaged by shelling in Mariupol and long traffic jams on the way out of the city."
The Bulwark was one of the loudest promoters of the Russian Collusion horseshit, ‘nuff said…
J.D. Vance is growing in popularity because of comments like this. Ukraine isn't our business and is a another foreign policy mistake caused by our foreign policy establishment in D.C.
The bigot you say. The Slavic Spring has been in progress for over 32 trimesters, and NOW (pun intended) they care? Hopefully, the Baidan, Maidan, regime will be forced to take a knee, and offer reconciliation, remediation, and end the war in Ukraine, close/expose the Wuhan labs, and curb corruption (PC) that threaten the life and welfare on a forward-looking basis of all Ukrainian people... persons, past, present, and progressive.
I know I’m supposed to like Vance, and I agree he’s highly intelligent, but it’s the kind of intellectual power that led him to support Evan McMullin. It truly takes an intellectual sometimes.
I think there's a lot in Ann's theory. Vance was obviously trying to establish his America First bona fides and it wouldn't have been so awful if Ukraine was not invaded and the public was focusing on the enormous corruption of Hunter and Ukraine. But a better politician would have expressed the sentiment differently. Dumbing down is hard. Politics is hard.
J.D. Vance must be commenting here under a couple dozen names.
On intellects, Tribe and Trump--and Vance for that matter. There are all sorts of "intelligence". One is sheer computing/mathematical ability; another is linguistic skill; yet another is social intelligence. There are others--but let's deal with those three.
My choice of careers was set when my high school geometry teacher (who knew I wanted to become a chemical engineer) told me that I'd be the first engineer in history without math. Okay--I wound up going to law school. Got into a top ten law school, and unlike Joe Biden, graduated in the top ten percent of my class. Spent a career working around other highly credentialled lawyers. Some of whom were simply highly credentialled fools--they had the credentials--Law Review, Order of the Coif etc., but were sadly lacking in judgment.
In the political world, social intelligence Trumps all. Which is why Larry Tribe can rage in the academic cloister. And Trump had enough social intelligence to, mostly, overcome his gaffes. People with social intelligence can almost always climb in the world. People who are bright in other areas--and I'll spot Tribe that--don't climb much out in the real world.
One of the smartest people I ever knew--in real world terms that is--came from semi-rural Tennessee and maybe graduated from high school (more probably dropped out midway through high school). But in street smarts and social intelligence she was really, really smart.
There are some ideas so stupid that only a high IQ intellectual can believe them.
Tribe is one. Maybe Vance is another.
“Besides the Biden grifters and Victoria Nuland, who did care about Ukraine before the invasion?”
Remember all the money that Hunter made from Ukrainian sources? With the cur for the Big Guy? And who bribed the Bidens with more money than the Ukrainians did? The ChiComs.
We're all good at certain things. We come into this world with talents built into our genes. The lucky ones among us learn early on what those talents are, and where our interests lie. Many of us stumble upon our talents later in life. Some never do find it and go through their life unhappy or even miserable, wondering what it was all about.
JD Vance is very bright. But speaking off the cuff is not his strength. Honestly, it was not Barack Obama's strength either, which is why for the most part he never left home without his teleprompter. It even got to be a running joke. Watch Obama's teleprompter speeches and you'll see people fainting at his wisdom and articulation. Watch him in a video speaking off the cuff, without notes or written scripts, and you'll lose count of all of the er's and uh's as he stumbles through his own thoughts.
All that said, JD is correct. Our greatest threat is our Southern border which no one- not one politician or media head- even mentions. As the narco-war in Mexico escalates daily, moving right up to the US border, as fentanyl kills a record number of Americans and creates entire cities of homeless wrecks, as our cities are overtaken by violent crime, we're watching Nancy Pelosi read poems from Bono about Zelenskyy.
Ukraine will recover. The US may not.
Like Hillary who was "warn't no waze tarred" from her campaign?
Howard, just for the record. Here's the actual story of Tokyo Rose.
I gotta be honest with you, I don't see what is wrong with Vance's statement, but then I haven't been lapping up the Democratic Trump-Putin propaganda as if it were God's Molten Truth poured over ice cream, either.
I have a theory that I came up with to try to understand some of the really dumb things Laurence Tribe tweets. It's that a person who is too far above the normal range has trouble thinking of how to speak to people of normal intelligence, that is, the people he needs to reach in order to be successful in politics. He knows they're significantly less intelligent than he is, and he adopts a style that he imagines to be at their level.
I don't think it's as much a matter of superior raw intelligence as it is a case of being too steeped in academia. When someone like Tribe speaks he makes too many references that are lost on non Ivy League listeners and it's frustrating to have to be constantly explaining oneself. This leads him to imagine that he's vastly superior when he's really just cloistered.
I like Vance OK, and don't think he should walk back anything.
"I Don't Care About Ukraine's [etc] Borders" is a perfectly legitimate stance, and might garner some votes for him.
But the greasy pole demands conformity above all things, and non-comformists don't rise very high.
As for relating to the plain folk, Vance beats Tribe walking away.
I left out the gratuitous insult to the Bullwank and its readers. Sorry.
I guess it's easier to understand why the normies are so discomfited by Vance's statement when you remind yourself that they have only been following events in Ukraine for about three weeks, what with having all of their time taken up being experts on contagious disease, so the normies are blind to the moral ambiguities and utter lack of a good guy there, on either side.
I also think that many people get dumber over time. If you are not continually exercising your mind by learning new things and dealing with new experiences, you lose intellectual creativity.
"More and more, he comes across as just another unprincipled politician who doesn't believe in anything except that he should be in office."
Just my two cents, but I think he's a complete fraud.
A face in the crowd.
Ukraine isn't our business and is a another foreign policy mistake caused by our foreign policy establishment in D.C.
Ukraine is a gateway to Russia... oil and mineral wealth a la Libya, and South Africa before that. All they need is a point of sufficient leverage to realize their ambition, ideally through shared/shifted responsibility. It didn't work in Egypt, not in Syria, not in Saudi Arabia, but hope Springs eternal, and without any viable repercussions, they have nothing to lose.
Tribe tweets dumb sh!t because he's in the tank for the Democrats, and says whatever is necessary to support the Narrative of the Day.
To a degree that's what the Bullwash is accusing Vance of doing. Your theory is correct in that both of them are smart enough to realize they're either oversimplifying things or outright contradicting previous statements but also understand that a long-winded and appropriately nuanced answer would get lost in the weeds.
Tribe says ridiculous things because he is an untrammeled moonbat. That drove his madness, not Trump. Trump was merely the stimulant for him to express it.
My favorite comment so far on all of the media coverage on Ukrainian Nazis since 2014 is that the press was secretly pro-Putin. I guess you work with what you've got, rather than consider that you might be wrong. I started out sympathetic to the Nazis there, due to Stalin, but the genocide talk, whispers of Russophone "impure blood," and the artillery barrages using incendiaries into civilian areas kind of put me off.
Putin is definitely in the wrong and my sympathies are all with Ukraine. But I don't know how far we should let out sympathies involve us in Ukraine's plight. Indifference and neutrality are not options though.....I haven't quite found the handle on geopolitics and world peace. I thought the Iraqis would greet us as liberators and that the Afghans, most of them, were opposed to the Taliban. Guess not....I'm glad so many here have it figured out. My track record isn't very good so I'm reticent about passing judgments or predictions. Nothing ever works out right in that part of the world......England and France entered WWII over Poland. Fat lot of good it did Poland in the long run. I hope things work out better for Ukraine.
I agree with the substance of what Vance is saying. Face it, if Biden and his puppeteers didn't so desperately need to wag the dog, Americans largely wouldn't give a shit about the Ukraine. It would remain an indefensible spot on the Risk board.
Oh! The Bulwark! Good choice. But first we chi-chi!
I have wondered whether those idiots at the Bulwark have got "bulwark" confused with "bulkhead". Their logo is a ship, after all. There are no bulwarks on ships. But maybe they just have New Republic envy.
"It's that a person who is too far above the normal range has trouble thinking of how to speak to people of normal intelligence, that is, the people he needs to reach in order to be successful in politics."
This works with politicians who are much dumber than average too, like when normal people wonder what Beiden is talking about.
Temujin:. Thanks. Interesting read, she was punished for her loyalty. It turns out I'm slandering Tokyo Rose by comparing her to Tucker Carlson who is an actual gutless traitor.
What happened in politics to the concept of getting your experience and making your mistakes in lower office? Even Stacey Abrams, the President of Earth, started in the Georgia State Assembly.
Vance's rethinking positions would not be a deal breaker for me.
How is Ukraine a foreign policy mistake? For the cost of a few weapons, we are bleeding Russia and kneecapping Putin's dream of recreating the Russian empire. Seems like a good realpolitik move to me.
Jupiter said...
I have wondered whether those idiots at the Bulwark have got "bulwark" confused with "bulkhead". Their logo is a ship, after all.
You've got to be kidding?!? After all the "Cruise Ship Conservative" jokes? They must have figured they'd be out and proud of it.
For the cost of a few weapons, we are bleeding Russia
A few weapons, a few lives (over 32 trimesters, in progress). We are not bleeding Russia. We are bleeding America and allied nations. The sanctions are an inconvenience to Russia, and accelerating progressive prices (i.e. inflation) and availability wherever oil and mineral resources are consumed. This is the model of shared responsibility, a caring regime. Welcome to the Slavic Spring with "benefits".
I have no particular point of view about J.D. Vance, but why in the world should anyone assume that he's smart just because he went to Yale Law School? Hunter Biden and Pat Robertson are both Yale Law School grads, but their supposed intelligence seems to be limited to scamming people out of their money.
I have no particular point of view about J.D. Vance, but why in the world should anyone assume that he's smart just because he went to Yale Law School? Hunter Biden and Pat Robertson are both Yale Law School grads, but their supposed intelligence seems to be limited to scamming people out of their money.
"How is Ukraine a foreign policy mistake? For the cost of a few weapons, we are bleeding Russia and kneecapping Putin's dream of recreating the Russian empire. Seems like a good realpolitik move to me."
I suppose it could work out in your favor. How far do you live from one of America's 500 or so largest cities and military bases?
Larry Tribe is not a superior person. He thinks he is a superior person. Has he ever persuaded anyone who didn’t already agree with him? What has been his focus? Reimagining the Constitution. Great. How do you test those ideas?
Sheesh.
Howard, you can live with your eyes and ears covered, but that doesn't change the facts on the street.
Actually I would say Trump is an extremely smart man with a talent for communicating with people who are not so smart without being condescending. He enrages people like Tribe because they can't see how he does it and they think the NSM should be listening to them.
"It's that a person who is too far above the normal range has trouble thinking of how to speak to people of normal intelligence, that is, the people he needs to reach in order to be successful in politics."
Oh Nooo! if people understand what I am saying, it means that I am only average in intelligence!! A most ignorant statement. Are we talking about "Q" trying to explain the sub-universe to Picard, or Pinker writing a book, or Goethe saying whatever? Oh you may be right there, with Goethe, but for the wrong reason.
I think it’s cute, the way Ann apologizes for Tribe — almost as if he were Bob Dylan.
My mother said her grandfather from NC would play the Southern hick when he was a corporate lawyer in NYC for a few years around 1900, soon after he served 2 terms in the NC House (the second as Speaker). Perhaps he honed his act and accent campaigning for office.
There are no bulwarks on ships.
My father was once XO of the USS Bulwark, a small, slow, wooden-hulled, barely-armed minesweeper. Her sister ships were the Agile, Aggressive, and Bold. Back then, the Navy had a sense of humor.
n.n said...
Ukraine is a gateway to Russia...
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and USA with manifest destiny to spread via Alaska > Siberia > Baltic Europe? that should hamper China reaching for Arctic
Temujin said...
Howard, just for the record. Here's the actual story of Tokyo Rose.
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thanks Temujin
why do I mix up Vance and Crenshaw?
I must remember eye patch [and which eye]
Adam Schiff(D) gets to lie for years and years - with zero consequence to his political career.
A GOP candidate says something dumb, and it's over forever.
You can make that point with less emphasis on intelligence. People tend to espouse the views of those around them. Harvard or Yale professors, especially when talking about things outside their specialization (which apparently is most of the time) just rehash the prejudices and commonplaces of their millieu.
Think Stephen Greenblatt's Tyrant, a book ostensibly about Shakespeare that is actually an anti-Trump screed (with Greenblatt "cleverly" not referring to Trump, but everyone knowing what he means). Think Timothy Snyder's anti-Trump books coming out every year. Outside academia, think Anne Applebaum.
With Vance it's different. He's marginal, someone who moved from one world into another and isn't at home in either. Naturally he's likely to make mistakes and miscalculations in both realms and unlikely to enter a new endeavor without stumbling.
I don't disagree with your theory Ann, but don't really think Tribe is a good example. Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley are a better fit.
(Eaglebeak)
Laurence Tribe is anything but "truly superior." If he were half as smart as he thinks he is, he would never have gotten involved in dumb Dem impeachment gambits, and he would have avoided the pissing contest with Alan Dershowitz.
Being an effective lawyer and law professor is no doubt admirable, but it's not the whole enchilada, intellectually speaking.
We're in a weird moment where one must, of course, "support" Ukraine (whatever that means) but one is not allowed to admit the obvious truth that there is nothing of vital US interest there, nothing that justifies our 19-20 year old servicemen getting killed (except for the vanity of our elites who want to feel good about themselves and who of course have no skin in this game).
Show me something that suggests that Larry Tribe is "smart" versus just having a gift for gab and the ability to smarmily climb the ladder. I don't think you can.
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