"At the elite level, a policy has been created for transgender athlete participation in the U.S. that relies on science and medical evidence-based methods to provide a level-playing field for elite cisgender women, and to mitigate the advantages associated with male puberty and physiology.... Evidence that the prior physical development of the athlete as a male, as mitigated by any medical intervention, does not give the athlete a competitive advantage over the athlete’s cisgender female competitors...."
From the new USA Swimming policy, quoted in "Lia Thomas’ future murkier as USA Swimming releases new policy, Penn teammates express support" (NY Post).
Also quoted, Independent Women’s Law Center (IWLC) and Independent Women’s Forum (IWF) condemned USA Swimming’s policies: "USA Swimming’s insistence that there is some way to eliminate the athletic advantage that post-pubescent males have over females denies science. But it also ignores the fact that... [a]llowing male-bodied athletes to compete on limited roster teams inevitably means that there are fewer opportunities for female athletes (to be recruited, to receive a scholarship, or to participate in competitions). Make no mistake, taking athletic opportunities away from female athletes violates Title IX."
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65 comments:
Since the controversy of trans athletes is brewing for some time already, most people probably noticed that in sports:
- examples of trans-women significantly outcompeting biological women occur quite frequently
- hard to recall any example of a trans-man outcompeting biological men
hmmm
To paraphrase a t shirt I saw the other day
"science! It's like magic but real! (sometimes)
Should be simple. If you have a dick, you compete with the guys. If you don't, compete with the women.
When this thomas fella gets his dick cut off he can compete with the girls.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
"USA Swimming’s insistence that there is some way to eliminate the athletic advantage that post-pubescent males have over females denies science. But it also ignores the fact that... [a]llowing male-bodied athletes to compete on limited roster teams inevitably means that there are fewer opportunities for female athletes (to be recruited, to receive a scholarship, or to participate in competitions). Make no mistake, taking athletic opportunities away from female athletes violates Title IX."
Absolutely true. The same assholes that say "follow the science" think men can magically turn into women by simply saying they are. This make believe is fine as long as it is limited to affecting only the person themself. But of course they demand the world to play along with this fantasy. This is just another example of how the left fucks up everything. Nothing they believe in ever works.
Have you noticed that women who say they are men still compete as women. Weird how they don't demand entry into men's sports. I can't think of one instance where they have.
I observed a long time ago that ethics are avoided at all costs in NYC. Bribes are the name of the game when you want something done. Schedulers at shipping/receiving docks ripping off truckers, purchasing agents deducting discounts not offered by sellers and janitors looking for handouts for doing what they have already been paid to do - move furniture, are examples which I had to deal with in the city.
Then along comes Trump with his infamous cheating schemes, to show impressionable young New Yorkers how to succeed.
Restaurant supply catalogs of old offered restroom signs "Setters" and "Pointers" that would solve the problem today.
Women have sadz privilege in arguments though, I notice.
fewer opportunities for female athletes (to be recruited, to receive a scholarship, or to participate in competitions)
inevitably means that there are fewer opportunities for female athletes
wasn't This, ALWAYS the point? I mean, wasn't it? If not, what the heck WAS the point?
"At the elite level, a policy has been created..."
Ugh, the passive voice.
Science is misinformed ☺️
Make no mistake, taking athletic opportunities away from female athletes violates Title IX.
Duh!
Title 9 is like affirmative action… it’s days are numbered.
Perhaps the best solution is to eliminate school sports all together. What is the point of having them?
Pipe down! The experts will tell us the answer soon…
Were Thomas's teammates blinking in code when they issued the joint statement?¾
Lia needs shoulder reduction and hip enlargement surgeries to fairly compete with the girls.
So if I self-identify as armless, I can compete in the Special Olympics?
Women's sports were created to allow women to win something. Men's sports are just sports, any woman who can compete is welcome. I used to take golf lessons from a pro who played in the LPGA and played on her men's college golf team. Nobody stopped her, it wasn't controversial.
Men and women evolved to be complementary in our survival struggles in an uncaring wilderness. But I guess it's 'anti-science' to posit any evolutionary pressures on our species.
a policy has been created
What John Borrell said: Passive voice. The tell that the people who created the policy want it to go away.
Unlike Althouse’s ideal girl, the rules are mean and exclusionary when it comes to our 57 genders.
My 12yo son’s rec league basketball team would make quick work of my older daughter’s competitive high school basketball team. And that’s ok.
"... men can magically turn into women by simply saying they are."
It is a sick, depraved society that allows even five minutes' discussion before rejecting this asinine notion. I fail to understand why this idiocy continues. Cui bono?
tim in vermont said...
Women's sports were created to allow women to win something. Men's sports are just sports
Tim's onto something. It's Not the MPGA and the LPGA, it's the PGA and the LPGA
The NBA and the WNBA. There's Chess Masters and Chess Women's Masters
IF a Chix With Dicks want to play ball... There's already leagues that will welcome them
There are Other separate leagues for the fairer sex; Just the fairer sex... 'cause they're frail
"Perhaps the best solution is to eliminate school sports all together. What is the point of having them?"
Better yet, let's eliminate everything in our culture that anybody enjoys. Far too much trouble to deal with them and, besides, what is the point of having them?
The knots the totalitarians must tie themselves in order to justify their refusal to acknowledge basic biology are a far worse knot than the Gordian knot. America has no Alexander on either side of the aisle.
Should be simple. If you have a dick, you compete with the guys. If you don't, compete with the women.
If you have or had one, I'd say, past the age of, what, twelve? Or else handicap everybody and let everyone compete against those of similar handicaps.
But if you're going to award scholarships on the basis of athletic ability and you don't want to shut virtually all young women out, you'll have to assign the scholarships to a range of "weight classes."
This whole kerfuffle appears to me to be fake women and real women conspiring to screw real women out of opportunities in college athletics. Why not just leave them to it?
Make no mistake, taking athletic opportunities away from female athletes violates Title IX."
Nobody seemed to care when Title IX took away athletic opportunities for men. There was a time for instance when male gymnastics and wrestling were popular varsity sports.
"Women's sports were created to allow women to win something."
That's bullshit. Women's sports were created to allow women to compete in sports.
BTW, it's also not true that girls and women who were perhaps good enough to compete against the boys have always had that option. For a lot of decades, many a parent, school principal, superintendent, or AD said "no" to this. Your comment also ignores the unwelcome attention that girls, even today, would face if they tried to play on the boys' team.
I'm not a big supporter of Title IX, but I don't get the hostility against women sports in general. If you believe that men are men and women are women, you should appreciate the value of having two separate programs.
I will support women athletes as long as they carry the fight themselves first. What I won't do is lift a finger to help those who won't help themselves. This is a first good step to stopping this nonsense. The solution here is obvious- let the transgenders compete in the events, but you don't get first place in the women's division- you get first place in the trans-women division if you win the race. If the schools want to recruit trans-women with scholarships, then let them after that.
" I fail to understand why this idiocy continues."
Because if they can make you accept it, they can make you do anything.
Make no mistake, taking athletic opportunities away from female athletes violates Title IX.
This argument assumes that your definition of "female" - one with XX chromosomes, a uterus, however you define it - holds true. Trans women would argue that they are "women" for purposes of Title IX.
Further, this argument might or might not be on point. Title IX prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex. It does not make explicit reference to gender identity or sexual preference, only to sex. It does not, therefore, necessarily, apply to these things and might be determined by chromosomes. Conversely, a court might determine that the term "sex" as used in the statute applies to these things.
To my knowledge, the Supreme Court held not held that Title IX applies to gender identity or sexual preference. The 4th Circuit has so held, but my understanding is that this was based on the Supreme Court's decision in a Title VII case. The Supreme Court denied cert in that case, so barring some change, Title IX appears to provide the same protections to transgendered people as it does to women.
I'm thoroughly enjoying feminists getting their s**t blown back at them.
"Women's sports were created to allow women to compete in sports."
Spot the difference.
Also, I don't have any animosity towards women's sports. I think that they are great, and I think they should be supported. It's just that, well, WNBA free agency started yesterday, who is the big prize teams are after this season? No fair using a web search.
Sport prizes for women in the West go back to Ancient Greece. I am pretty sure it was about giving women a chance to compete and *win*, but if you have other information, I am all ears.
"Penn teammates express support"
And if they did not sign, they would suffer the consequences.
I'd like some examples of male wrestling removed to make room for women. Why, then, does it still exist? Track has been co-ed in terms of coaching and competing for a long time. Male gymnastics is blended with female gymnastics this way, or it has morphed into the new sport of professional cheerleading, which is as challenging as gymnastics. Cross country is likewise co-ed, though, as late as 1981, I was pulled off a finish line and disqualified because our school would not buy seven tee-shirts for the female members of the team, and we were not allowed to buy our own or use the boys' sleeveless shirts. I was third place in a field of almost 200, a state-ranked distance athlete, and our sport cost pennies. Yet female runners were still excluded at state meets over a few bucks a decade after Title IX; we still had a big male wrestling program, and the then-all-female cheerleaders, which really wasn't a sport at the time, were given uniforms that cost a hell of a lot.
In high schools, the issues are access to training time, materials, field maintenance, travel, and coaches. Of course, booster clubs pay for some of football's massive budget, but most of it is still paid by all taxpayers through coaching salaries and field, uniform, lighting, and bleacher expenses. We often shared the same field with the football players. But much, much more was and is spent on male sports, with some funny accounting.
Cis is a slur, roughly as offensive as calling these boys trannies. Or, to them, boys. No journalist or professional organization should use the term to refer to females or males.
At the elite or non-elite levels, what does the new USA Swimming policy say about these women athletes walking around the locker room with their penises exposed?
Their testosterone level requirement is B.S. Yes, testosterone does help you compete. But the huge advantage it gives is when you are growing up. You end up with more mussel mass, more lung capacity, etc., etc.
Yancey: these female students know that to speak out may cost them acceptance to college, jobs, and maybe worse in the future. Protecting free speech is the more elemental issue here, and we should all be more than willing to do that.
Also, many of these female swimmers are speaking out, but, rationally, they are doing it anonymously. The sports federations are spineless woke autocrats. They're the ones we should hold responsible. Eagle Forum, CWA, and several other conservative women's groups are doing just that.
I'd like some examples of male wrestling removed to make room for women.
Those enforcing title IV required numerical parity of male and female athletes. Despite all of their efforts, universities could not convince enough women to compete, so they were forced to eliminate men's sports. As far as I am aware, no one disputes this.
Lia or Leon? is not a good enough swimmer to compete with the guys, so he became a girl in order to win. What a loser!
Irony is men, transitioning and then invading the women only spaces a couple of generations of feminists worked to secure. Irony is that the strongest ally conservatives have in opposing trans ideology, the people who earliest and most clearly perceived its dangers, were the most misandrist old school feminists of the earlier waves. Paglia excepted, the best heuristic for the clearest perception of the dangers of trans ideology in a feminist is the degree of their hostility to men. The kinder, gentler more inclusive feminists of the later waves are the ones most taken in by it.
Irony is men, transitioning and then invading the women only spaces a couple of generations of feminists worked to secure. Irony is that the strongest ally conservatives have in opposing trans ideology, the people who earliest and most clearly perceived its dangers, were the most misandrist old school feminists of the earlier waves. Paglia excepted, the best heuristic for the clearest perception of the dangers of trans ideology in a feminist is the degree of their hostility to men. The kinder, gentler more inclusive feminists of the later waves are the ones most taken in by it.
Agree with Frank about the BS of the testosterone requirements. Any XY person who went through puberty should be disqualified from competing with XX people
"I'd like some examples of male wrestling removed to make room for women. "
"....we still had a big male wrestling program..."
Seems like you may have provided your own example. Of course, we may not ever know the reason you have to speak of the "big male wrestling program" in the past tense. I'm sure it has nothing to do with a more "equitable" division of sports dollars that reduced the ability of interested men to wrestle, while also opening up the overwhelming interest that we see in women's wrestling. It has nothing to do with looking around for expensive sports in which women were interested and competitive to offset the high expenses of a football program.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with football envy, a pernicious predilection even to this day of male and female sports programs which fail to garner even a fraction of student and public interest despite government bureaucratic efforts to push those sports to the detriment of football.
Cross country is about as pure a sport as you'll find at the HS level. Low barriers to entry, plenty of participation prizes to be had, low cost to the school system to support it, plenty of artificial interest from the local news. And yet it has a fraction of the participation that football has at the HS level.
Or maybe we consider lacrosse, newly-adopted by many HS systems to provide opportunities for men and women to compete in a high-energy, slightly violent manner. Lots of money, lots of overhead and lots of ability to share facilities with football. And yet...and yet...minimal interest in comparison to football.
There's a reason football is the sport that has the highest cache at the HS level.
Whenever I pass a house with one of those "In this house we believe...science is real" signs, I assume the real science they believe includes the notion that presence or absence of Y chromosome tells us nothing, nothing! about the gender of any particular human or mammal. And that GMOs pose a fatal risk.
But trying to look on the bright side, this could potentially be a game changer for WNBA ratings.
"Title IX appears to provide the same protections to transgendered people as it does to women."
Whatever happens, it's critical that this not be decided by the elected representatives of the people. Let's let a judge decide what the lawmakers were thinking while ignoring the plain language: "sex." Like affirmative action, it's too important to leave to the democratic process, which is restricted to changing out the players based on the uni-party roster.
6'1" or 6'2" is not mitigated by hormone replacement therapy, and height is a distinct advantage in many sports, including swimming.
The powers that be are really trying to parse this thing instead of just stating the obvious: biological men should not compete with biological women.
See how easy that is?
Btw, Blogger comments are total shit today.
Not Obeyed: my old high school still has a big male wrestling team. I know someone deeply involved in the budget process. He prefers education dollars to be spent on education; I actually remember cross country being a big part of my education in terms of discipline and seeking excellence. But even ten years after Title IX, school boards weren't enforcing it, was my point.
The underlying issue here is free speech. I think most parents see sports opportunities for their sons and daughters to be an equally good thing, just like it's good for girls to learn to change a tire and for boys to learn to cook a meal. But the iron dome of political silencing descending on younger and younger generations is terrifying and isn't limited to sports. Sports are just the current playing field. I think we could agree on that. Any schaudenfreude will be short-lived.
Very odd that this has become the flashpoint in which the biological reality of male/female differences is the square peg that doesn't fit the round hole of woke ideology's idea of male/female. But that's what's happened, and Title IX seems to be the chosen field on which the contending sides will fight it out.
75 Swiss francs is all that it cost for one savvy Swiss individual to exploit a loophole in Swiss retirement regulations to retire one year earlier and receive even more lavish benefits than he would have received had he remained a male on paper.
Thanks to a new law, Swiss citizens are allowed to change their sex on paper without needing to provide any documentation from a doctor or physician. All it takes is 75 francs and a desire to be referred to as a man or a woman. - Zero Hedge
This is a Cloward-Piven attack on the gender nazis.
Funny, I don't recall any "participation prizes" in high school cross country. The person who came in first came in first, etc. Then and now. If you're referring to people getting t-shirts at the finish line, you're confusing charitable or federation races where everyone pays for those shirts, with extra money going to the charity or federation through enrolling or collecting cash to enroll. It's a charity fundraiser, or on the professional circuit cash collected to offset costs. The PBA races always start with police wearing the badge numbers of their murdered colleagues and K-9 runners trotting in formation wearing the badge numbers of murdered K-9 dogs. The t-shirts support the police; the other money supports their widows and children. It's pretty whiny to call that a "participation prize."
What's wrong with participating in sports? Isn't that the whole point. Isn't that what a sports "Letter" is. A Letterman's jacket is a walking participation trophy.
These anti Title IX anti woman's sports guys are sport voyuers who thinks the importance of sport is popularity and revenue. Since woman's sports are less popular and make less money, they think they should be cut back.
The basic problem is the world is run by these betas and gammas whom are in constant battle with their gender dismorphia and latent homosexuality. This results in misogynistic overcompensation. They are basically stuck on an endless loop of inferiority and jealousy that progressively lowers their testosterone.
Their greatest fear is having to compete with strong intelligent women. This is why they need to keep the sisters down.
A major problem of trans males in women's sports is deciding what is the allowed/proper amount of hormone/chemicals to administer. Too many chemicals and the male advantage likely disappears; too few chemicals and the male advantage reigns. Whos decides what level and is it different for all trans athletes? Then, who administers the treatments and how are they enforced?
The chemical-athlete problem does not exist solely in trans men competing in women't sports, but also if trans men sports are separated as a new category of competion.
A major problem of trans males competing in women't sports is deciding the appropriate amount of chemicals/hormone treatment to administer (and verify). Too many chemicals leaves the athlete at a disadvantage vis a vis women. Too few gives an advantage to the trans male. Who decides the appropriate treatment, and is it the same for all trans males?
The chemical athlete problem exists even if trans-male competitions are set apart from female competition. How much chemical for each competition and is it the same for each competitor?
Lincoln Wolverton
“We want to express our full support for Lia in her transition. We value her as a person, teammate, and friend. The sentiments put forward by an anonymous member of our team are not representative of the feelings, values, and opinions of the entire Penn team, composed of 39 women with diverse backgrounds,”
Heh. That would be thirty-eight women with vaginas and one big, swingin' dick.
"Funny, I don't recall any "participation prizes" in high school cross country."
Yes, top finishers get their placement and awards. But that's not a participation trophy. It's all of the other runners (who are wearing school-issued jerseys very much like the ones your team were denied) who are given the participation trophy. Indeed, you can get a varsity letter for cross country just by showing up to practices and meets.
OTOH, I don't recall any girls participating on the boys' team, and AFAIK there are no boys competing on the girls' team. So at least we haven't crossed that particular bridge.
My son was hounded by the cross country coach to run XC when he went into HS. He chose football, where he is quite mediocre, over XC. Because except for the top finishers everything else is essentially a fun run in HS-supplied jerseys. And yes, there are participation ribbons for going to a meet, and you can "earn" a varsity letter just by showing up to practices. Don't even have to run a meet.
Indeed, you can get a varsity letter for cross country just by showing up to practices and meets.
That was definitely not the case at my kids' high school, where they both ran, one on varsity for two or three years (I honestly forget now). It sounds like your kid's High School has a lazy coach.
PEDs in sports need to be redefined to keep up with the times.
The trans-neo/quasi/pseudo feminine are raising the ceiling for women. Oh, well. Politically congruent ("="). #NoJudgment #NoLabels
When this thomas fella gets his dick cut off he can compete with the girls.
Or a tactical divergence (i.e. transgender) to a homosexual orientation and he can abort the baby, cannibalize her profitable parts, sequester her carbon pollutants, and have her, too.
Nancy said...
Were Thomas's teammates blinking in code when they issued the joint statement?¾
____________
Just what teammates were these? Please give us a complete list of their names, and the names of the entire team.
Penn Teammates Express Support
Well, well, well. Now a letter comes out from 16 members of the swim team OPPOSING the school and the Ivy League allowing Thomas to compete at the league championship.
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/penn-swim-team-members-ask-school-ivy-league-to-refrain-from-litigation-to-allow-lia-thomas-to-race-at-ncaas/
Bender said...
Penn Teammates Express Support
Well, well, well. Now a letter comes out from 16 members of the swim team OPPOSING the school and the Ivy League allowing Thomas to compete at the league championship.
_________________________
The news story I saw said the “support” was expressed by “several” of the girls on the swim team.
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