From "Trump grapples with a surprise threat: Too much Trump/Some allies worry the president is damaging his reelection prospects with his dominance of the briefing room during a public health and economic crisis" (Politico).
Perform his favorite tricks.... like sarcasm?
Claiming something is sarcasm when it didn't much strike anybody as sarcasm seems to be a new trick, and I don't think he should be practicing it in front of a gigantic audience of hundreds of millions of people — especially people who are struggling through something serious and hoping for something to feel hopeful about. Even if he'd practiced that particular sarcastic move in small clubs for years and honed the wording and delivery, I don't think it would ever have been right for the White House stage. And I appreciate Trump's spontaneity and rhetoric. You can see that in my posts over the last few years. But not everything works, and sarcasm is a bad choice in the Task Force briefing context. It mixes false statements in with the truth, but you're supposed to get it, because it's funny. Fortunately, the move backfires.
And that's assuming it he was telling the truth when he called it sarcasm, which I don't think he was. But assuming... Let's assume that when he said, "I see the disinfectant... is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside... it’d be interesting to check that so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me," he could have leaned more heavily into the sarcasm and said "I see the disinfectant kills the virus, so why don't we just inject the disinfection right into the patient?! That sounds like it just might work! How about all you doctors get on my brilliant idea right away and divert resources into experiments?! I'm sure some of these crazy reporters would love to volunteer to have Clorox injected right into them. Come on, you paragons of ethics, roll up your sleeves." Then we'd all see the sarcasm. So is that what Trump meant to do, but in a subtler style?
I don't believe it, but as I said, it backfires. Trump isn't the only one who gets to use humor. Social media blew up with jokes about Trump and the injected disinfectant. And then he drastically shortened the next press briefing. It wasn't so fun anymore. I'm glad that check on his power worked. Freedom of speech is not just for Presidents. And humor coming from a person wielding immense power — taking advantage of a captive audience — is problematic. I think Trump is a fantastic standup comedian. I enjoy his performances. But some jokes fail.
And some things that are not jokes get called jokes after the fact, which is what I think happened here. Trump undercuts his own reputation as a humorist when he labels one of his non-humor statements as humor. So why did he do that? Desperation? I told you yesterday how I thought he'd try to deal with disinfectant-injectiongate.
1. He'll say it's "fake news"... They said I recommended injecting bleach.... Who would say that?...But he didn't do any of those things. He did something I didn't even think of, calling it sarcasm. It's a little demoralizing to those of us who have been giving him a sympathetic listen. Maybe I'm demoralized because I didn't find myself on the inside, with the people who understood the sarcasm. Did anyone understand it as sarcasm?
2. He'll rephrase his idea so it's situated in a context that makes some sense... how feasible is it to kill the virus once it does get inside the body?...
3. He was just asking the question of the expert, drawing him out....
In March 2019, I went into some detail about Trump's use of sarcasm — laid on very thickly in front of a very sympathetic audience:
I think this was the funniest 1 minute in Trump's 2-hour CPAC speech:That post had a poll:
He's making fun of the Green New Deal.
"The Green New Deal. Or whatever the hell they call it." Pause. Suppressing a little smile and glancing around. "The Green New Deal. Right? The Green New Deal. I encourage it. I think it's really something that they should promote." Pause. "They should work hard on. Something our country needs desperately." Dramatic rising tone and silent fist pound on "desperately." "They have to go out and get it, but I'll take the other side of that argument, only because I'm mandated to. But they should stay with that argument. Never change." Pause, then quietly: "Never change." Long pause. "No planes. No energy. When the wind stops blowing, that's the end of your electric. Let's hurry up. Darling? Darling, is the wind blowing today? I'd like to watch television, darling."
So much sarcasm. Anyone not hearing the humor would be lost, but the crowd has no trouble absorbing every little edge of humor, and nearly every word and pause feels humorous to me. But if you like the Green New Deal, it's got to be horribly irritating, including the humor. Obviously, it's wrong to say that energy from a wind turbine flows into your house only while the wind is blowing, and you'd lose your mind if you believed that Trump doesn't realize that, but it's just as annoying if you think he knows that but he wants to get the fake science out there and he intends to hide behind a claim that it's just an exaggeration — a joke.
Here's Trump — also from yesterday's speech — trashing his antagonists for not getting his joking (or pretending not to get it):
"If you tell a joke, if you are sarcastic, if you're having fun with the audience, if you're on live television with millions of people and 25,000 people in an arena, and if you say something like 'Russia, please, if you can, get us Hillary Clinton's emails! Please, Russia, please! Please get us the emails! Please!'" The plea is exaggerated. He pauses for a long time an looks around, then starts up again, waving his hands about: "Please! Get us the emails! Please!" Pauses. Laughs. Notices the crowd is reacting with a "Lock her up" chant, which isn't quite absorbing his point, but maybe that's how they have fun, how they irritate their antagonists. He stretches out his hand to quiet them. "So everybody's having a good time, laughing, we're all having fun, and then that fake CNN and others say, 'He asked Russia to go get the emails. Horrible.' I mean, I saw it like 2 weeks ago. I'm watching, and they're talking about, 'One of the points, he asked Russia for the emails.' These people are sick. And I'm telling you, they know the game. They know the game. And they play it dirty. Dirtier than anybody's ever played the game. Dirtier than it's ever been played."
Poll results:
It's hard to apply that to the disinfectant-injection media storm, because there wasn't a set of Trump supporters who saw sarcasm, so it's not possible to accuse his opponents of presenting words literally when they knew he was being sarcastic.
And, wow, did you watch those old clips? How much more fun Trump was in those happier times! And yet, back then, Trump haters agonized as if we were living in end times. What a contrast between then and now!
Perhaps that has something to do with why Trump lumbered off the stage so early yesterday.
But Trump is a man of boundless energy and massive performance skills. He'll find a way out, won't he?
Posts
211 comments:
1 – 200 of 211 Newer› Newest»Yes Trump says a lot of loose shit. I wish he wouldn't because I'm rooting for him.
But when he gets loopy like this, like some antivaxxer or essential oils seller, I think I may have to vote for the health nazis.
He needs to move on from disease to reopening the economy. If he wants to brainstorm in public, the health of the economy is much closer to his comfort zone.
I think the WH press corp. deserves to be lined up shoulder to shoulder and given the Moe Howard Conga Chain Slap.
Frequently
Labradoodle breeder dies from lethal combination of chloroquine and bleach while resting on a tanning bed.
Loose shit? Loose shit? https://thepuristonline.com/ and as pointed out in another thread, perhaps the SOURCE of the Prez's "injection" comments...
https://thepuristonline.com/2020/04/the-cuomos-corona-protocol-week-3/
there's a pool under the white house press club, maybe a trapdoor like in 'wonderful life;
I thought Trump was just channeling Lady Cuomo's "I-like-to-put-a-little-Clorox-in-the-Cuomo-bathwater" blog post....
And the media seemed to buy Lady Cuomo's advice.
He's the Everyman. His jokes fails and he opines on health matters that he, like everyone else, including the experts themselves, is ignorant about.
haven't seen you at the good prosecutor's chuck,
The hack-D press will come after Trump in any direction. Doesn't matter what Trump says.
Meanwhile, the hack-D press are so incredibly dishonest- they deliver candidates like Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. If our press were not corrupt, both Hillary and Joe would be forced to step aside. They would also be prosecuted for their high level criminal abuse of power.
The hack press delivers deep state protection to their own.
Do not inject bleach. Do what ms Fredo did to mr Fredo, an intravenous drip consisting of:
"magnesium, NAC (a precursor to glutathione, said to be very helpful against COVID-19), vitamin C with lysine, proline, and B complex, folic acid, zinc, selenium, glutathione and caffeine (to combat the severe sinus headache). NAC is N-Acetyl-Cystine—an antioxidant amino acid (which is used for respiratory health) and replenished glutathione.
And, for good measure, have the intravenous drip done by a psychiatrist. In your house because those old fashioned hospitals won't permit modern medicine.
IT'S SCIENCE, GODDAMIT!!! IF YOU SAY DIFFERENT YOU A A DEPLORABLR MURDERING DENIALIST!!!! PROBABLY TAKING MONEY FROM PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES!!!
John Henry
but look - squirrel!
Trump has lost this particular skirmish. The media will pounce....I don't consider it a deal breaker, but Trump doesn't look good. Still, he just has to be patient and the media will look worse.
He needs to get out of the White House, fly to Georgia or L.A. and (maybe with a mask on) go out in public and meet people. Maybe get a haircut in a barber shop.
if he marketed designer leaches, they would be the first to sell it,
On The Five, Juan Williams claimed that the President said it was sarcasm, and one of his press people said he was taken out of context, and "it can't be both".
Not one other person asked Juan what it is about being sarcasm and being taken out of context that makes them mutually exclusive.
The news that the Obama admin funded (at least partially) the Wuhan lab that created the virus seems a little more newsworthy.
And, I suspect that the hubbub over this is designed to bury that news.
“Trump cited 'a very nice rumor' that heat and sunlight can kill the novel coronavirus.”
Not a rumor. A SCIENTIFIC fact.
Trump realized what he was doing was getting stale.
So he’s going to pivot to something new.
Sigh...
Why would the US government ever give money to the murdering CCP? Or the murdering mullahs of Iran?
Per se crazy.
Oh, wait, ignore that last sentence. Fredo does take money from pharmaceutical companies. The pay for his show.
TRUTH TO POWER!!! (yeah, that's the ticket)
John Henry
2020-04-20: IHU Méditerranée Infection, Marseille, France: Early treatment of 1,061 COVID-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin (PDF)
Quotes:
BACKGROUND: Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and azithromycin (AZ) are promising drugs against COVID-19.
METHODS: We conducted an uncontrolled non-comparative observational study in a cohort of 1,061 infected patients treated with HCQ+AZ combination for at least three days.
RESULTS: Good clinical outcome and virological cure were obtained in 973 patients within 10 days (91.7%). Prolonged viral carriage was observed in 47 patients (4.4%) and was associated to a higher viral load at diagnosis (p < 10-2) but viral culture was negative at day 10. All but one were PCR-cleared at day 15.
A poor clinical outcome was observed for 46 patients (4.3%) and 8 died (0.75%) (74-95 years old).
Mortality was lower than in patients treated with other regimens in all Marseille public hospitals (p< 10-2). Five patients are still hospitalized (98.7% of patients cured so far). Poor clinical outcome was associated to older age (OR 1.11), initial higher severity (OR 10.05) and low HCQ serum concentration. Poor clinical and virological outcomes were associated to the use of selective beta-blocking agents and angiotensin II receptor blockers (P<0.05). No cardiac toxicity was observed.
CONCLUSION: Early HCQ+AZ combination is a safe and efficient treatment for COVID19.
This is just crazy talk. What is our president going to recommend next?
Injecting botulinum toxin directly into the body?
John Henry
Radioactive pellets?
John Henry
Coffee enemas? Healing crystals?
John Henry
So what. If Trump injected some one with bleach on Madison Avenue in broad daylight. He would still be our President.
I think Trump swung and missed on this one.
My guess is if he tried to explain his thought process in any detail, the potential for an out-of-context clip would be yuge.
So he tried to short-circuit it and move on.
Sometimes Reggie Jackson strikes out.
But he hits enough home runs to not worry about it much.
What Reggie (allegedly) said about himself is applicable to Trump: he is the straw that stirs the drink.
I am Laslo.
when botox was first being promoted, I said what the...pt barnum was right,
This “Trump told people to drink Clorox” issue is simply ridiculous. The Fake News missed the real news which was that UV light, heat and humid kills the virus.
It's not backfiring, Trump's cucks are lapping it up with joy and gusto.
Well played, sir.
"Obviously, it's wrong to say that energy from a wind turbine flows into your house only while the wind is blowing."
Uh, what's wrong about that? Unless you have some form of storage, electricity from the wind turbine won't flow without wind.
Maybe instead of "injection", Trump should have said a patch.
New study will test whether nicotine patches can keep the coronavirus away.
The more we find out about COVID-19, the less sense it makes. Originally seen as a standard respiratory ailment that primarily affected the lungs, there's mounting evidence that COVID-19 can cause serious damage to the heart, neurological system, and kidneys, too. In young people, it's been shown to sometimes cause sudden strokes, even absent other symptoms. Doctors are also reporting COVID-19 patients with blood clots.
One particularly weird element is conflicting reports on whether cigarette smokers are more or less likely to get COVID-19 and whether they have worse cases if they do.
Now, in France, they're testing whether nicotine may help prevent COVID-19 infections.
It might sound zany at first, or like a piece of bad satire about French people (What's next, testing to see if baguettes and brie cure COVID-19?), but there's actually good evidence that nicotine plays a role in regulating humans' response to the virus.
"It's an interesting possibility," and "we'll know more soon," French Health Minister Olivier Veran said on France Inter radio this week.
The mitigating effect of nicotine could explain conflicting results on smokers and COVID-19.
Initially, high rates of smoking in places like China and Italy were offered as reasons why the illness might be striking these places especially hard. In Wuhan, China, "the percent of current and former smokers were higher among the severe cases: 17% and 5%, respectively, than among the nonsevere cases (12% and 1%, respectively)," according to an article published in Nicotine & Tobacco Research on April 3.
Worse outcomes for smokers still might be the case—smoking involves a lot more than just nicotine, and many of the health issues seen in long-term smokers are the same underlying conditions that have been found to provoke more severe symptoms of COVID-19.
Yet "doctors at the Pitie-Salpetriere hospital in Paris observed that few Covid-19 patients hospitalized were smokers," notes Bloomberg.
Some have theorized this away by noting that old age is a hospitalization risk factor, and smokers are less likely to live to an older age. But others are trying to tease out whether there's a possible mechanism by which smoking could prove protective.
"Based on the current scientific literature and on new epidemiological data which reveal that current smoking status appears to be a protective factor against the infection by [COVID-19], we hypothesize that the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR) plays a key role in the pathophysiology of Covid-19 infection and might represent a target for the prevention and control of Covid-19 infection," wrote French researchers in an April 21 paper.
How would this work? Well, it's known that COVID-19 binds to a protein in the human body called angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), and previous research has shown that nicotine helps regulate ACE2 expression. The authors of the paper hypothesize a way in which this could contribute to a lessening of the hyper-inflammation thought to be responsible for some of the worst cases of COVID-19.
@Howard
You have the oddest idea of "smart."
At least, now I understand the thinking of the Dem/intel/military coup attempt against Trump.
I do appreciate you for setting out the rationale so clearly.
It's for our own good. The Chinese model is ruthlessly efficient... except when it screws up.
I am reminded of a favorite saying of my late wife, who was Chinese/Filipino: "I don't make many mistakes, but when I do, they're big ones."
Good ones John Henry. Onion worthy. If SNL was funny, they could do a skit on Nancy, ice cream and Botox. But nooo.
"Not one other person asked Juan what it is about being sarcasm and being taken out of context that makes them mutually exclusive."
Taking out of context was #2 on my list of 3 points that I thought Trump would make (when I didn't even think of sarcasm). I was trying to come up with what I thought he'd say, so I'll offer that as where I'd go trying to answer the question that didn't get asked on "The Five."
With regard to Media v Trump, wake me up after Labor Day.
The best take on Trump came from Salena Zito during the 2016 campaign: His supporters take him seriously but not literally; his antagonists take him literally but not seriously.
The man runs his mouth too much on matters he understands too little. This is a failure of self-discipline.
On the other hand, his foreign policy with regard to China, Russia, Iran and North Korea has been more consistent, more practical and more effective than the approaches of the three presidents who preceded him -- even as he has alienated and driven off many admirable military and foreign policy experts who were his advisers.
People who hate him pick at the many, many nits. Even people who try to take the longer view find the guy wearying because of all the distracting noise.
It's probably not the nicotine, rather probably the toxic chemotherapy soup of polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons and nitrosamines from cigarette smoke.
Once again: There is a difference between possible inferences or interpretations and reasonable inferences or interpretations. The lefties, particularly the mediaswine, always go for “possible” if the inference or interpretation can make Trump look bad. Who has ever seen them cast him in a positive light?
The media has already flunked the Trump-inspired Intelligence and morality tests. It remains to be seen if they can drag more than half the country into their cesspool of stupidity.
One of the factors with covid-19 as far as I can remember it's not a tight in the body away from the immune system and built up its numbers quietly and by the time the immune system recognizes that it goes into a full-blown over-reaction mode and that's what ends up killing you.
Perhaps smokers are enjoying a more active immune system fighting off the regular ingestion of poison and attacks the covid-19 before it can hide and build up its strength.
Funny how all the Propaganda left wing "news" anchors and newspapers came out with the same phrase....Grappling. Who sends out their daily talking points???
"agent used for destroying the germs of infectious diseases," 1837, from French désinfectant (1816), noun use of present participle of désinfecter (see disinfect), or else from the adjective in English (by 1827), "serving to disinfect." Related: Disinfection.
- etymonline.com
JournoLists forming close associations (a la NYT) and spreading social contagion of the politically congruent kind. The conception of another witch hunt, perhaps warlock trial?
New insights on the antiviral effects of chloroquine against coronavirus: what to expect for COVID-19?
The multiple molecular mechanisms by which chloroquine can achieve such results remain to be further explored. ... preliminary data indicate that chloroquine interferes with SARS-CoV-2 attempts to acidify the lysosomes and presumably inhibits cathepsins, which require a low pH for optimal cleavage of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein
Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture
It doesn't treat Covid-19 directly, but disinfects the Wuhan virus (formally known as SARS-CoV-2) and mitigates its progress.
It could be sarcasm directed at Trump by Media and critics.
Isn't Taking Trump (or anything outrageous) literally is a form of sarcasm?
As discussed previously, he was brainstorming. His retreat to a claim of sarcasm is an attempt to end the uproar and outrage. Personally, I don't understand all the outrage and second guessing or how anyone could be demoralized by this. Overly sensitive, maybe even hyper-sensitive folks investing way too much in the person of Trump and the office of POTUS.
Anyone who does as much impromptu public speaking as Trump will be bound to commit a gaffe or misspeak or get things mixed up on occasion. It's inevitable. And the opposition is always ready to pounce. That's why Obama, for example, almost always stuck to his teleprompter.
And that's all this was, a gaffe, as evidenced by the need of the anti-Trump media to turn it into something more serious through exaggerating a theoretical public danger.
Having said that, Trump should have just owned the error. He could have just said, yeah I got myself mixed up and said something stupid, my bad. Please don't drink Lysol anybody. He could have had a little fun at that point. Is it too late for that?
Here are all the tweets from people like Tapper....saying Grappling.... https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2020/04/24/script-is-out-the-media-has-definitely-received-the-memo-on-how-to-spin-assault-allegations-against-joe-biden-hint-so-much-grappling/
Advice the media and other ill-wishers will never take as regards President Trump:
Young man, the conversation was between Lord Trask and myself. And when someone says something you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. What do you mean, Lord Trask?
H. Beam Piper
Captain Otto Harkaman in Space Viking (1962-1963)
God forbid, they would just ask him, uninflected, unloaded, "What do you mean, President Trump?"
I'm bored.
It is what's called "thinking out loud," with free association: Gee, if disinfectant works like that on the outside, maybe there is 'something' that would work that way on the inside; we should look into that. That is a very long ways from suggesting that anyone inject disinfectant. You have to be way into TDS and denying all benefit of the doubt to make that leap.
Maybe Presidents shouldn't be thinking out loud. OTOH it's refreshing to have someone not totally controlled and pre-programmed. Again, watch what he does and not what he says.
God forbid, they would just ask him, uninflected, unloaded, "What do you mean, President Trump?"
The JournoLists are low energy arsonists working with the tools available to them, hoping to force a conflagration that is politically congruent to their clients' special and peculiar interests.
Obviously, it's wrong to say that energy from a wind turbine flows into your house only while the wind is blowing, and you'd lose your mind if you believed that Trump doesn't realize that
Obviously, you're wrong, Ann. At best, power from a wind turbine can be stored for later dispensing. Meanwhile, the technology hardly exists and is hardly in place to do this, so in essence, this statement is perfectly correct.
Obviously.
In his initial statement, he was merely throwing out an idea that he thought could be investigated. I think it comes from a desire to be positive and optimistic. He never said that people should inject themselves with household cleaner despite what the media told you.
Trump has mostly gained from his daily briefings but you can see that he made a major mistake. There was no sarcasm. He should not brain storm before the media because they will not give him the benefit of the doubt.
I'm bored.
Thank you Rosa Marie, you most most accurately and succinctly describe this whole controversy.
CONCLUSION: Early HCQ+AZ combination is a safe and efficient treatment for COVID19.
HCQ+AZ is quite literally a disinfectant of Wuhan virus (formally known as SARS-CoV-2), indirectly a treatment for Covid-19 disease, and mitigates their progress.
"agent used for destroying the germs of infectious diseases," 1837, from French désinfectant (1816), noun use of present participle of désinfecter (see disinfect), or else from the adjective in English (by 1827), "serving to disinfect." Related: Disinfection.
The arsonists hopefully start another fire, which will die and not force excess deaths.
I'm bored.
I'm for boring.
Maybe people who are healthy and still smoking in old age have unusually strong lungs and airways.
Nicotine is an insecticide.
I checked the transcript, and I saw no suggestion by Trump that any person try disinfectant. He questions the idea and suggests it be left to medical doctors. However, he interrupted to say the silly thing, and it was unnecessary. Calling it sarcasm I don't think helped, and it did leave free for others to make fun of him. Does it hurt him in the election? Maybe so, because he gave his opponents something that can be mocked. Humor can be a devastating weapon. That said, between the damage done to the economy by Democrats at state and local levels, Pelosi withholding aid for pet projects, and the senility of Joe Biden; I think Trump can be brought down a peg and still win. Then there is the Durham report.
I'm with Rosa Marie and "Mark".
We need to end the lockdown and have people go out and have lives precisely to put an end to endless stupid discussions about stupid stuff.
I heard Trump live, paid little attention to it, and moved on. Not to brag, but that was the right response. This whole controversy was worth about half a second of our attention.
I gargle every morning with Carbolic Acid laced with mercury.
Speaking solely for myself, I think Trump should continue with the press conferences, maybe even expand them a little.
I don't consider the statements to have been intended as sarcasm, but I'll give him a Mulligan.
Botulinum toxin is the most poisonous substance known. A couple hundred nanograms (billionths of a gram) will kill. One gram, the weight of a postage stamp, properly distributed, would kill every person in NYC.
But it's the dose that makes the poison. Botulinum toxin is routinely used in procedures with no medical benefit other than vanity. It's commonly called "botox" and we probably run across a mention of it daily.
David mentioned drinking bleach. That's just crazy talk, David! But most of us probably drink bleach, sodium hypochlorite, multiple times a day. It is a common ingredient in tap water. If you are not drinking bleach, you are drinking infused chlorine gas. Depending on which your local waterworks prefers. Pros and cons to each.
Chlorinated potable water has saved hundreds of millions of lives around the world since coming into widespread use just 100 years ago
And there were the same objections "you are poisoning our water supply! It took 20-30 years for that to go away. We've been putting flourine, another deadly poison, into our water supplies and I still hear objections to that.
I would be willing to bet that there is some safe level of dilution at which Clorox, or at least a sterile, medical grade sodium hypochlorite could be directly injected into a human. Whether there would be a benefit is another question but it would be safe.
(to be continued)
John Henry
There is always the carbolic smoke ball, an historic remedy for flu-like illnesses.
Like I said expect this shit from Ann until November.
@ARM
So, how’s that job at Acme Co. going?
This time the boulder is really going to land on the Road Runner instead of you?
How do you maintain your smug self-assurance in the face of always being wrong?
It’s quite a unique quality.
When I heard the President, to the extent to what he said registered at all (given that I don't have an internal hair trigger that leads to an explosion of outrage at the slightest opportunity to misconstrue or disconstrue anything Trump says), I thought he meant the ability to get some kind of UV light into the body.
Thinking about it, why couldn't there be some kind of probe that goes up into the nasal passages and/or down into the lungs that has a UV light attached at the end? It would only work on the surface, of course, but perhaps that in itself could help.
Continued
So suppose you could develop a disinfectant, I think a more proper term might be virogen, that would attack (disinfect) kung flu cells while not attacking other cell. Sort of like chemo drugs do to cancer cells.
Why is an injectable disinfectant to fight kung flu cells such a crazy idea?
It's a branding problem. Had pdjt used a better, more scientific, word like virogen, there would have been no problem.
John Henry
In any event, some people are looking for answers. Some people are exploring every possibility to help and save lives.
Others are invested in failure. And they demand failure.
What this does teach us, though, is not really that much about Trump.
What is demonstrates is that so many people of all stripes are so eager to buy into the politics of deflection and distraction.
Stay away from the moldy bread.
Howard said...
It's probably not the nicotine, rather probably the toxic chemotherapy soup of polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons and nitrosamines from cigarette smoke.
Why do you think this, assuming that you are serious? You describe no action of the toxic soup-though if PAH is the answer, let a million barbecues alight!-but nicotine is logical based on its action on the key ACE2 receptors.
"I thought he meant the ability to get some kind of UV light into the body."
There are (or at least were, I haven't followed it) research attempts to image the inside of the body with light.
“But he didn't do any of those things. He did something I didn't even think of, calling it sarcasm. It's a little demoralizing to those of us who have been giving him a sympathetic listen. Maybe I'm demoralized because I didn't find myself on the inside, with the people who understood the sarcasm. Did anyone understand it as sarcasm?”
I understand the feeling that Trump supporters would feel demoralized. It’s understandable, but why has it taken so long? For years Trump supporters have been trying to make Trump’s ramblings make sense, sometimes it required a great deal of creativity to do so. One half of the country couldn’t understand why such effort would be put into this. Why are a some Trump supporters still bending themselves into pretzels to give credence to Trump’s words? Why are they still making excuses for him as if he is their 5 year old child who is cute as a button, but a holy terror.
I look at how Drago turned himself inside out to defend Trump’s obviously ridiculous musings about “injecting” UV light and disinfectant INSIDE the human body, only to have Trump say a day later he didn’t really mean it, he was just being “sarcastic”. To a normal well adjusted person this WOULD be demoralizing, but to the true believer, the sycophantic follower it isn’t. They can’t bring themselves to even be demoralized. I guess it’s just too painful to realize the man you voted for and continue to support is not equal to the task of being the POTUS and made a monumental fool of himself before millions of people when he needs be performing at the top of his ability.
Watch out for another outbreak of boring.
It wasn’t sarcasm. It was the inevitable byproduct of improvisation. The old maxim of organists who improvise interludes or extended liturgical moments is that when you get in a jam, you are always a half step away from the solution. It’s true enough, but the problem is knowing where that half step is. Unfortunately, in this instance, Trump moved a finger and it was a clam.
It happens, and that’s the price of the performance he usually plays pretty well. Bach was known to improvise elaborate technical toccatas and fugues. Surely, there had to be moments he would like to have back, but he was always back on the bench the next Sunday with the pews full of of eager congregants.
- Krumhorn
“What this does teach us, though, is not really that much about Trump.”
I agree.
“What is demonstrates is that so many people of all stripes are so eager to buy into the politics of deflection and distraction.”
Wrong. What it demonstrates is that many people will not let go of their object of worship, no matter that the object is so severely flawed. The amount of unreasonable support Trump still gets from his followers doesn’t speak well for them.
It's probably not the nicotine, rather probably the toxic chemotherapy soup of polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons and nitrosamines from cigarette smoke.
Yea, like I need another reason to start smoking again.
Trump's too good to use sarcasm. Sarcasm is a woman's form of wit: she doesn't know what's wrong but something is. Trump knows what's wrong and says it.
Scott Adams says Trump was just making the question go away, there being no upside for Trump in continuing it. That is, he was controlling the choice of topic with a lie so obvious that it baffled the reporters.
The latest "CONTROVERSY"?
WTF! Its the latest Democrat/MSM lie about Trump that's being used to bash him. There is no "controversy". And frankly me dear, I don't give a damn. I getting bored by these constant Press Manufactured Trump Controversies where the only real point is "Orange Man Bad".
"Did anyone understand it as sarcasm?"
No, because it wasn't sarcasm. I think he meant that it was intended facetiously, not seriously. But he did not find the word to describe that situation, and he used "sarcastically" instead. What word would you use? I don't think we want the President using "facetiously".
“It wasn’t sarcasm.”
So Trump lied saying it was sarcasm. I agree, he lied. Rightfully he is embarrassed, so much so that supposedly he’ll be paring back his attendance at the news briefings. Too late though and just when he was having such fun, it backfired on him.
TRump: I was being sarcastic.
MSM: you lie! You Lie! You were serious!
Trump: Can you read my mind? Maybe you just are bad at telling sarcasm?
MSM: Uh..no we can't...you lie! You Lie! You were serious!
I was in a bar last night, saw this beautiful woman. Like a supermodel. I walked up, I was like, "Hey, where are you from? What do you do?" And she goes, "Oh, me? I live here in San Fransico. I'm a brain surgeon." And I don't know if this makes me sexist, but I was like really impressed. You know? I mean, most women can't pull off sarcasm.
Anthony Jeselnik
When Trump says he was just being sarcastic he was just dismissing the importance of his suggestion. I agree with Laslo on this. There would have been more fallout if he tried to explain or justify himself having any opinions or ideas about medical matters.
When Trump talked about possible disinfectant therapies I was thinking about blood transfusions and cleaning the virus out of the blood during that process. Of course he wasn't suggesting using household products, jezz louise -- surgeons use tools like saws and hammers and needles and thread, but they are not the same objects that you buy at the hardware store or the fabric store. However they do the same sorts of things, cutting, etc.
I get why people might be outraged that a president might speak freely but I've never had a problem with Trump being himself. He's a person before anything else which is why he is so relatable.
I think that many in the media act like unruly children rather than professional journalists -- like the way students misbehave for a substitute teacher. They never have intelligent questions for the experts, I've noticed that. The questions for Trump are all a game of finding fault and antagonistic politics against Trump. It's obnoxious and I think walking out is exactly what the press corps deserves. There is some entertainment value in watching Trump wack them down but in a sense he's been an enabler. So that's over now.
The media is incredibly dishonest. They no longer get the benefit of the doubt for anything. Remember Trump's crack that he could shoot someone on the street and get away with it? If he ever did something like that, at this point I would probably have to witness it myself to believe it. I am not pleased with this development, but that is where we are at. The media is now utterly worthless, filled with garbage people uninterested in doing their jobs and getting paid handsomely for their corruption. I am no longer interested in their narratives.
Does Trump say ill-advised things? Well, of course. So did Obama. He did it regularly, for which he was feted by our media "betters." So did Bush, for which he was described regularly as an idiot. As for Clinton, he just raped women but he liked abortion so that was all good.
It wasn’t sarcasm. It was the inevitable byproduct of improvisation.
I agree. And Trump makes it worse by trying covering his tracks with the sarcasm claim. He always has to be right, even when it's obvious he's wrong. That plays well with the 5th Avenue Club, but hurts him the large block of voters who are not members of that club nor Never Trumpers.
You'd have to be at Inga-level stupidity to ingest a substance because the presidemt--any president--says so; and even stupider than that (if that's possible) because your puppet masters in the MSM tell you that's what he said.
Talking out the ass is more precise than the euphemism "improvisation". Trump ain't no Charlie Parker.
Here's what Trump said:
Here we go. The new — the new headline is: “Trump Asks People to go Outside. That’s Dangerous.” Here we go. Same old group. You ready? I hope people enjoy the sun. And if it has an impact, that’s great. I’m just hearing this — not really for the first time. I mean, there’s been a rumor that — you know, a very nice rumor — that you go outside in the sun, or you have heat and it does have an effect on other viruses.
I would like you to speak to the medical doctors to see if there’s any way that you can apply light and heat to cure. You know — but if you could. And maybe you can, maybe you can’t. Again, I say, maybe you can, maybe you can’t. I’m not a doctor. But I’m like a person that has a good you know what.
Bilwick describes the deplorables intelligence level to a tea
I've been saying for weeks - and I say this as a supporter - that Trump needs to trim these press conferences down to what is currently being done in regards to covid-19, and the economic recovery. I can't trust the press to report any progress reported during these press conferences, so I have to tune in myself, and I don't appreciate Trump wasting two hours of my time going on and on and on, rehashing old fights with Democrats and the press.
For instance, if the press attempt to drive a wedge between him and one of his experts, then by all means scorch the press over it with extreme prejudice, then let it go when the press drops it - we don't need it rehashed for a week, by the press or by Trump.
On another subject, any bets on how many new cases Brown County, WI is going to record today? We should cordon off the whole fucking county to keep their shit from spreading to the rest of the state, because sooner or later people will get in their cars and flee the county, like sick people getting on flights out of Wuhan.
Here's the reporters contemptuous response:
THE PRESIDENT: I think it’s a great thing to look at. I mean, you know. Okay?
Q But respectfully, sir, you’re the President. And people tuning into these briefings, they want to get information and guidance and want to know what to do.
THE PRESIDENT: Hey — hey, Phil.
Q They’re not looking for a rumor.
THE PRESIDENT: Hey, Phil. I’m the President and you’re fake news. And you know what I’ll say to you? I’ll say it very nicely. I know you wel
Trump needs to limit the Press questions. They are a waste of time. Or limit the Press to those who are credentialed medical and science reporters. This latest MSM Lie about Trump shows they WILL NOT report the news. How much analysis did you read about the Undersecretaries findings? What about those charts? What is the potential impact?
Nope. Nothing on that. Instead its lies about Trump wanting to inject Lysol into people. No different from the HCQ.
"It wasn't sarcasm"
Prove it.
Looks like I picked the wrong decade to quit smoking.
"Obviously, it's wrong to say that energy from a wind turbine flows into your house only while the wind is blowing ...".
Althouse, it not only is not "wrong", it is precisely what is wrong with "Green Energy". When your electrical power is supplied by solar or wind, it is intermittent. If you want continuous, on-demand electricity, you need to have natural gas or oil back-up generators standing by to kick in immediately when the wind doesn't blow and it's dark outside. Everyone who is knowledgeable about the subject is well aware of this very basic fact, and of its economic consequences. Namely, that Green Power costs twice as much, and can never replace fossil power, and is therefore a bunch of touchy-feely virtue-signaling for people who are way too dumb to be put in charge of anything important.
Actors. Directors. Musicians. Nancy Pelosi. AOC. Those are the sorts of people who are so bone-ignorant they think Green Power can replace fossil fuel. I bet ARM even knows better.
Instead of political media maybe there should be some scientists and doctors asking questions at the briefings for a change?
Reading what he actually said, rather than hostile paraphrases of it, it seemed charitable to assume President Trump was asking about using something analogous to disinfectant materials inside of patients. That would show a beginner's mind and willingness to ask questions without fearing that others would think they are stupid questions. He has done that before with provocative questions like "why can't we use nuclear weapons", without meaning that we actually should.
But his "sarcasm" ploy blows my favorable interpretation out of the water, while simultaneously straining credulity.
MEANWHILE, the protests against Gretchen Whitmer have paid off, per Billy Binion at Reason: "Residents may go back and forth between residences, as long as they aren't heading to vacation rentals. Landscaping businesses, garden stores, nurseries, and lawn care services are allowed to restart their engines, although they must abide by enhanced social distancing orders that ensure that only the minimum required workers are on the clock at the same time. Big box stores are no longer legally obligated to section off "nonessential" sections. Golfers can return to the course as long as they remain six feet apart."
Some may view this as a threat to their lives, though.
The Press is incredible. Before it was "Trump says he's King, wants everyone to bow down to him."
Now we get this question from them yesterday:
Q: Sir, are you surprised Gov. Kemp defied you on that? Because you made it clear —
Trump, re-emphasized for the 12th time that he delegated decision power to the the Gov's and that it was Kemp call, and while he was "unhappy" with it, no one was defying anyone.
The game being played is: (1) Pit Trump against an R Governor (2) Try to get Trump to agree with Kemp, so if things go wrong in GA - Trump is to blame.
Do you think a sailboat keeps sailing when the wind dies? It just keeps gliding along, with a bone in its teeth? Maybe it uses wave power! Put a sail on top of your car, along with a solar panel. You'll never need to buy gas again.
Trump:
Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.
IOW, can we somehow use this knowledge to help knock out the disease? BTW, we use poisons to kill cancer in chemotherapy. We use Ultraviolet rays INSIDE people to help kill viruses. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. Nor do I see this as STARTING A RUMOR.
I'd just like to admit that the questions in this post are over my head,.
With that said, since everyone in the press has been more than happy to throw out their own negative bullish daily, I'm thankful that someone at least is delivering promising positive news and possibles. If I paid much attention to the press, I'd either buy a few more guns or hang myself from a tree in the backyard.
"Do you think a sailboat keeps sailing when the wind dies? It just keeps gliding along, with a bone in its teeth? Maybe it uses wave power! Put a sail on top of your car, along with a solar panel. You'll never need to buy gas again"
Ever see a rabbit with a pancake on its head?
“You'd have to be at Inga-level stupidity to ingest a substance because the presidemt--any president--says so; and even stupider than that (if that's possible) because your puppet masters in the MSM tell you that's what he said.”
This genius misses the main point, what sort of POTUS would even muse aloud in front of millions of people about something so stupid? Of course no one would inject or ingest bleach because Trump said so, that isn’t the biggest concern. The biggest concern are people like you who continue to support a man who is so fucking dumb in a time of pandemic when we need a POTUS who is up for the extremely difficult job in front of him. He’s proven time and again he is not. He can only skate so long, before he falls on his ass in front of millions of people.
Trump needs to limit the Press questions. They are a waste of time. Or limit the Press to those who are credentialed medical and science reporters. This latest MSM Lie about Trump shows they WILL NOT report the news.
Yup. Only the Ingas of the world lap that stuff up, as we see here.
By the way, the red areas of California are ready to rebel.
The problem is people do NOT ignore the Press. Stupid people -who fucking vote - pay attention to the press. Why do you think candidates spend millions on ads? Bloomberg went from 1% to 20% in the polls just by spending $500 million on ads. The Press is putting out the equivalent of non-stop anti-Trump, Pro-Democrat Ads 24/7/365. Its probably equal to $2 billion in Trump attack ads. And Biden gets it for free.
The story should have been about the stupidity of thinking that Trump said we should inject ourselves with bleach. NPR actually went on air with that claim!
Still, he shouldn’t have said it was sarcasm, because now the story isn’t about injecting bleach, or the credulity of Lefties, but about Trump lying about sarcasm.
I don’t believe he was sarcastic when he mentioned bleach injection, unless he was very subtle about it. He’s good at a lot of things, but not at subtlety. Maybe he was sarcastic about being sarcastic. Either way, he failed.
If you were planning to murder your spouse with an injection, this weekend is the best opportunity to avoid prison.
Democratics in the press will blame Trump.
No reasonable prosecutor... something something.
Also, before the technology that would be need to inject UV light or disinfectant of some sort into a body ravaged by Covid 19, there will be a vaccine. Trump wants to have instantaneous solutions to present, so he can “open up the country”. I don’t blame Trump for wanting this, but for pity sake what sort of leader of the most powerful country on earth says dumb shit like he does? You folks can’t keep calling Biden senile when Trump acts in an equally cognitively challenged way and get away with it.
“Yup. Only the Ingas of the world lap that stuff up, as we see here.”
Only Michael K’s of the world continue to make excuses for Trump and are too senile (or worse) to feel embarrassed doing so.
Inga: You folks can’t keep calling Biden senile...
You mean he isn't? Really? That's an interesting "but Trump" argument.
You are not helping your case.
Demoralized by something he said? Welcome aboard.
Trump should have gone to law school to learn the Sarcastic method.
"And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning."
Right, so?
Anyway, he should talk less, because he should, and he should use the term sarcasm correctly, otherwise Althouse will get on his case.
"...when we need a POTUS who is up for the extremely difficult job in front of him. He’s proven time and again he is not."
Wait a second. You've been telling us that he's doing the right thing all this time. I was convinced you were gonna vote for him. You love that he wants to keep us locked up, but hate any promising news he might suggest that could make things better. It's almost like you really prefer misery and hopelessness.
"agent used for destroying the germs of infectious diseases," 1837, from French désinfectant (1816), noun use of present participle of désinfecter (see disinfect), or else from the adjective in English (by 1827), "serving to disinfect." Related: Disinfection.
His mistake was to progress, when he should have advanced. It is more likely that Covid-19 will be treated through disinfection of the Wuhan virus (formally known as SARS-CoV-2) than through a stimulated immune response (e.g. a colorful clumps of cells bolstered with chemical agents).
otherwise Althouse will get on his case.
Exactly, less melodramas, witch hunts, warlock trials, etc. I'm for boring, or at least a semblance of reality.
“It's almost like you really prefer misery and hopelessness.”
It’s like I want to think that the US deserves a president that is up to the task, especially now. It’s not an easy one, granted.
One of the available treatments for cancer is Ultraviolet Blood Irradiation Therapy, also called Photoluminescenece Therapy, is intravenously applied ultraviolet energy. So, yes, it can be done. Likewise, since 1989, people have been using hydrogen peroxide intravenously to kill bacteria and viruses. 5 cc of pharmaceutical grade, 3 per cent hydrogen peroxide are put in 500 cc 5 per cent glucose in water as a carrier solution. Two grams of magnesium chloride are added along with a small amount of manganese to prevent vein sclerosis. It is administered into the circulatory system through a vein in the arm. This second treatment can be quite dangerous, although all medical treatments can be dangerous.
"And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning.""
I know it's easy to attack that when you hate, but do you really think medical professionals have not asked themselves the same thing? I hope they have. There are similar treatments past and present for cleaning diseased tissue like that. You have an infection that destroys specific tissues like the lungs in this case, so it makes sense to consider how you might
address the infection in that specific tissue directly. It might go nowhere, but I don't think Trump is the first one to wonder out load about that. I hope the people trying to find solutions are open-minded about any possibility within reason, and maybe even beyond. "Necessity is the mother of invention", but imagination is its muse.
“One of the available treatments for cancer is Ultraviolet Blood Irradiation Therapy, also called Photoluminescenece Therapy, is intravenously applied ultraviolet energy.”
Ineffective alternative medicine is not always harmless
"It’s like I want to think that the US deserves a president that is up to the task, especially now."
Then Biden is what we need, right? If not, then you have to vote Trump. He has been doing the right things according to you, so a guy you hate doing the right things, or a creepy, corrupt, version of grandpa Simpson. Should be an easy call. Can you imagine Biden doing these press conferences everyday. That would be embarrassing for us all.
Trump has been a successful executive his entire life in multiple large enterprises with thousands of employees. Biden made his relatives rich through government connections. That's not nothing, but it pales at "being up to the task". Just say it: Keep America Great - Trump 2020." The bumper stickers are available on line. Of course, even if you want to, you would never put one on your car, becuase you know how some people are.
Inga said...
Of course no one would inject or ingest bleach because Trump said so
Oh inga, this is pretty stupid even for you.
He never mentioned bleach. He said, with "something like a disinfectant" now you are a nurse, you should know that, while bleach is a disinfectant, there are hundreds of non bleach disinfectant such as ammonia, phisohex, iodine, bac, multiple alcohols and more.
Surely you are smart enough, as a nurse, to realize that you could inject any of these disinfectants, including bleach, into our bodies IF DILUTED SUFFICIENTLY.
do you disagree with that statement? It's right up your alleyoop, surely you can render an opinion.
Not saying there would be a medical benefit, just that it would be safe.
But suppose we could develop a highly toxic injectable chemical that would attack cancer, i mean virus, cells but nothing else.
Wouldn't that be "like a disinfectant" in non-medical, non-scientific terms? As a layman might use the word?
John Henry
It's rather amazing that Trump is held to standards on minor things that his accusers could and cannot not meet on major things. Trump said something inarticulate and then may have used the word "sarcasm" wrong. HORRIBLE! The Democrats block desperately needed funding in a time of major crisis. Yawn. The Democratic nominee for president does not even know where he is half the time and has been credibly accused of rape. Don't see a story. Communist China covers up the pandemic outbreak and let's the entire world get infected! Pass. Also, if you think this is a story, you are xenophobic. The media repeat Chinese communist press releases verbatim because Trump. Whatevs. The media actively tries to downplay medical treatment for the Wuhan coronavirus for what cannot be explained except for blatant political reasons and seem to be actively rooting for people to die. So? Let me make sure to get all my information and opinions from such people!
This is an amazing exercise in lack of perspective. There are major things going on all over the place, and the great debate is over vocabulary. We've become so accustomed to bad actors acting badly that we think it is normal and proper, and then focus on minor details of minimal interest to anyone outside of rank partisans and grammar nazis.
I read a lot of history and for a long time it was hard for me to understand how a great empire that had everything going for it could collapse completely within a century, sometimes much faster than that. I think I understand now. The "important" people get obsessed over selfish and/or stupid stuff as if it is vitally important while the actually important stuff is neglected and eventually burns. It rarely ends well for the "important" people.
All the geniuses scoff at Trump just for asking a worthwhile question about a very serious problem with no solutions yet. Is that being helpful?
Inga, the bedpan commando, has never heard of Photodynamic therapy. It is sometimes not worth trying to educate people. Laughter is often the best you can do.
Photodynamic therapy (PDT), is a form of phototherapy involving light and a photosensitizing chemical substance, used in conjunction with molecular oxygen to elicit cell death (phototoxicity). PDT has proven ability to kill microbial cells, including bacteria, fungi and viruses.[1] PDT is popularly used in treating acne. It is used clinically to treat a wide range of medical conditions, including wet age-related macular degeneration, psoriasis, atherosclerosis and has shown some efficacy in anti-viral treatments, including herpes.
It is used internally for such conditions as esophageal cancer. It has been used for years but bedpan wranglers have little occasion to learn about it.
The wavelengths used, not usually UV, vary with the chemical target compound, many of which are porphyrins.
The isolation of porphyrins and their inherent tumor localizing properties coupled with its ability to generate reactive singlet oxygen when activated by light of particular wavelength which in turn results in cytotoxicity led to the emergence of a new modality namely, photodynamic therapy (PDT) as a therapeutic tool.
Our Pit Bull developed a cancer a few months ago, a tumor behind her ear that was very bad and that doctors refused to consider for surgery. We were told it would get worse, and likely take her in a few months, but they did have a possible solution. Have her ingest a very toxic chemical for a few days. It's so toxic that we were told to wear gloves when touching it, and to not let it touch skin or surfaces where we might prepare food.
We just finished that first week of treatment. The tumor which was the size of a golf ball is completely gone. Can't even tell it was there - phenomenal results. I never expected it to even work, let alone this. Put a poison inside your body? Only an idiot would think such a thing could work. What next, leeches?
“He never mentioned bleach. He said, with "something like a disinfectant" now you are a nurse, you should know that, while bleach is a disinfectant, there are hundreds of non bleach disinfectant such as ammonia, phisohex, iodine, bac, multiple alcohols and more.
Surely you are smart enough, as a nurse, to realize that you could inject any of these disinfectants, including bleach, into our bodies IF DILUTED SUFFICIENTLY”
Feel free to experiment with yourself. LOL.
Inga: "So Trump lied saying it was sarcasm. I agree, he lied."
LOL
Just like Carter Page lied about not being a russian spy.
And Trump lied about not colluding with the russians.
And Kavanaugh lied about not being a gang rapist.
It's simply amazing those things that Inga "knows" are lies, isn't it?
BTW, somebody just the other day asked Inga, in a serious fashion, whether Inga still believed Trump and/or his campaign colluded with russia, a claim Inga has pushed for 4+ years.
Inga refused to answer.
Inga blabbling about lying!
For Christ's sake.
Don't that take all, as they used to say back in my hometown.
Inga, you're a world's champion liar.
“Inga, the bedpan commando, has never heard of Photodynamic therapy. It is sometimes not worth trying to educate people. Laughter is often the best you can do.”
Yes I am laughing at you. The therapy the quack speaks of does NOT inject UV light INTO the body. A substance is injected into the veins and then a light source is applied OUTSIDE the body to react to the substance that was injected. There has been absolutely no evidence that this therapy kills viruses.
“Photodynamic therapy (PDT) is a treatment that uses special drugs, sometimes called photosensitizing agents, along with light to kill cancer cells. The drugs only work after they have been activated or “turned on” by certain kinds of light. PDT may also be called photoradiation therapy, phototherapy, or photochemotherapy.”
———————————————
Below is the therapy that LuAnn Zieman@12:40 PM mentioned.
“A man who called himself a naturopathic doctor is scheduled to stand trial for the death of one of his patients starting Tuesday in Jefferson County District Court in Golden, Colo.
Brian O'Connell, 37, was charged with manslaughter after he unsuccessfully treated Sean Flanagan, a 19-year-old who suffered from Ewing's sarcoma, a form of cancer.
Sean Flanagan's father, David, 43, said he was desperate when he and his wife Laura, 42, brought their son to O'Connell's Mountain Area Naturopathic Associates office in Wheat Ridge in December 2003. They had tried chemotherapy, radiation therapy, bone marrow transplants and surgery.
David Flanagan said he put his last hope in O'Connell's services, which typically included herbal medicine, nutrition and physiotherapy.
Of course he did. False hope is what quacks like O'Connell sell, whether they realize it or not (and most probably don't realize it because they believe in their own therapies). In this case, he pushed UV blood irradiation (UBI), in which blood is removed from the patient, treated with UV light, and then reinfused back into the patient. The claim is that this treatment somehow "boosts the immune system." This is a claim that is utterly without basis in science. Just thinking about it should suggest to you why it would be unlikely to "boost immune function." UV light is a DNA-crosslinker, making it a mutagen. Normally it doesn't have access to your blood, because your skin stops it. All that's being accomplished by UV-irradiating blood is to induce DNA crosslinking in the lymphocytes and monocytes in the blood, as well as potentially degrading some of the proteins in the cells and plasma. Depending on how much UV radiation is used, that could be harmful or indifferent, but it's unlikely to be beneficial.”
Here's a simple thought experiment: What was the press outraged over the day before this press expression of outrage? That would be Wednesday. The presser started with CDC Director Redfield and Trump politely excoriating the press for mischaracterizing Redfield's answer to a sucker, gotcha question from an interview Tuesday.
Later on Wednesday the press tried to get Trump to accept responsibility for the likely return of Covid in the fall, without much success. That would have been worth a day or two of news setting up Trump for denunciation in late October, with whatever Covid numbers exist at that time.
So Thursday Trump whimsically wishes there were a quick lung disinfectant or UV cure, and it becomes national news. The other things Trump said, about vast numbers of supplies, decreasing numbers of deaths, optimistic projections about massive testing and so on, were embargoed to go all monkey-house again, tossing poo at the public and acting as if it were delicious fruit.
Nothing the lying press does works more than a day or so. But they keep trying the same crap-toss towards the wall, to see what sticks. Monday I hope Trump comes out and explains exactly why the Comfort is out of NY, while the elderly nursing care COVID patients are infecting entire nursing homes there.
“Photodynamic therapy (PDT) employs a non-toxic dye, termed a photosensitizer (PS), and low intensity visible light which, in the presence of oxygen, combine to produce cytotoxic species. PDT has the advantage of dual selectivity, in that the PS can be targeted to its destination cell or tissue and, in addition, the illumination can be spatially directed to the lesion. PDT has previously been used to kill pathogenic microorganisms in vitro, but its use to treat infections in animal models or patients has not, as yet, been much developed.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3071049/
You see, because OrangeManBad we now have to pretend that there are not companies that are developing advanced medical therapies involving Far UV light for use inside the human body.
One such company, Aytu Biosciences which is working with the FDA and Cedars-Sinai on UV Light Treatment to kill the Vvrus in Pptients, suddenly, for no reason, had their long running videos on youtube.....deleted.
Because the lefties have decided to scrub as much evidence of what Trump was talking about as possible.
All so Inga and the other leftist liars can claim that very technology and therapies do not exist.
BTW, is anyone else impressed by the speed in which the entire left/media/dems/LLR-left shifted from collusion with Russia because Trump owes russian banks and Putin has kompromat on Trump to now, suddenly, its the ChiCom banks Trump owes money to (no he doesn't) and the ChiCom's that have sway over Trump because of business dealings (laughable).
They never missed a beat.
you don't answer the question.
I understand why not but it make you look the fool.
A role you are used to and seem to enjoy.
John Henry
Since there are a lot of people who do exactly the opposite of Trump - simply because it's Trump - maybe he should've said to NOT inject household disinfectants.
UV in the form of warm sunshine is the collective cure for this.
I am informed that Angelenos are using the beach at Santa Monica in a non-approved manner, as the weather is so nice. The authorities are upset, but the police are unwilling to enforce the absurd restrictions any longer.
Inga and her links. Does she understand any of it ?
Since I don't watch TV, any of it, I did not see Trump's briefing. I would suggest that he not take questions but he does what he wants and it seems to be working pretty well.
The ignorati seem to live on the misunderstandings that arise. Eventually we will find out much of the effects that are so debated right now. I doubt they will be widely accepted as politics seems to rule the weak minds we see here from some commenters.
I compare it to the Atkins Diet, which was proposed in 1972 and was condemned and ridiculed for 50 years until it finally became apparent that carbohydrates, the basis of the "Mediterranean Diet" so beloved of nutritionists, is the cause of obesity.
The obesity epidemic, accompanied by the Type II Diabetes epidemic, has now become the major cause of death and morbidity.
The US Department of Agriculture contributed much of the misinformation. A giant industry is based on statins and the scourge of cholesterol. It will be very difficult to learn the real issues with cholesterol because so much is invested in it.
Much the same applies to "global warming" and "Green Energy." They are all hobby horses for the left.
“Inga and her links. Does she understand any of it ?”
Better than you apparently.
https://apelbaum.wordpress.com/2020/04/22/todays-specialcontaminated-bat-soup-and-stale-ccp-disinformation-salad/
Inga links to an article about UBI being used for cancer.
I mean, that's really what Trump was advising.
nga said...
“Inga and her links. Does she understand any of it ?”
Better than you apparently.
This is the silliness we get. Explain, Inga. Why not try to listen and learn something?
Inga the pathological liar is worried about... lying.
You’re a psycho’s psycho, Inga.
If they had psycho conventions, you’d be the keynote speaker.
https://apnews.com/b44f4531071e6204023f7b8e16f59d4b
April 20, 2020 GMT
The Healight technology employs proprietary methods of administering intermittent ultraviolet (UV) A light via a novel endotracheal medical device. Pre-clinical findings indicate the technology’s significant impact on eradicating a wide range of viruses and bacteria, inclusive of coronavirus. The data have been the basis of discussions with the FDA for a near-term path to enable human use for the potential treatment of coronavirus in intubated patients in the intensive care unit (ICU). Beyond the initial pursuit of a coronavirus ICU indication, additional data suggest broader clinical applications for the technology across a range of viral and bacterial pathogens. This includes bacteria implicated in ventilator associated pneumonia (VAP).
“Our team has shown that administering a specific spectrum of UV-A light can eradicate viruses in infected human cells (including coronavirus) and bacteria in the area while preserving healthy cells,” stated Dr. Pimentel of Cedars-Sinai. Ali Rezaie, MD, one of the inventors of this technology states, “Our lab at Cedars-Sinai has extensively studied the effects of this unique technology on bacteria and viruses. Based on our findings we believe this therapeutic approach has the potential to significantly impact the high morbidity and mortality of coronavirus-infected patients and patients infected with other respiratory pathogens. We are looking forward to partnering with Aytu BioScience to move this technology forward for the benefit of patients all over the world.”
The company believes the Healight platform technology has the potential to positively impact outcomes for critically ill patients infected with coronavirus and severe respiratory infections. The company licensed exclusive worldwide rights to the technology from Cedars-Sinai for all endotracheal and nasopharyngeal indications. Patents have been filed by Cedars-Sinai Department of Technology Transfer, and Aytu BioScience will manage all aspects of intellectual property prosecution and filing globally. Aytu BioScience expects to partner the product outside the U.S.
“We are honored to be partnering with Cedars-Sinai as we believe the Healight therapeutic platform has the potential to help many patients during this coronavirus pandemic and beyond,” said Josh Disbrow, Chairman and CEO of Aytu BioScience.
The Company is engaging with the research team at Cedars-Sinai and the FDA to determine an expedited regulatory process to potentially enable near-term use of the technology initially as a coronavirus intervention for critically ill intubated patients.
Disbrow continued, “This first-in-class technology has the potential to be a game changer for clinicians treating patients infected with coronavirus and other respiratory conditions, and our team is working tirelessly alongside the Cedars-Sinai team to determine the safety and effectiveness of this device in humans.”
Was this entire thread about Inga and her cut-and-paste opinions?
Seriously?
“This is the silliness we get. Explain, Inga. Why not try to listen and learn something?”
I explained it to YOU, because it was apparent YOU didn’t understand what you were quoting. Go back and read more carefully. You should be embarrassed as a retired MD for promoting something to combat Covid 19 that you didn’t understand yourself.
There has not been any use of PDT in dealing with PATHOGENS with animals or human.
“PDT has previously been used to kill pathogenic microorganisms in vitro, but its use to treat infections in animal models or patients has not, as yet, been much developed.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3071049/
“Was this entire thread about Inga and her cut-and-paste opinions?
Seriously?”
And now the alcoholic psychologist weighs in, LOL. Maybe he thinks ingesting alcohol will kill the Covid.
Bravo Walter! Now that is interesting.
Drago
Here is a link to the "Aytu Biosciences" company, they have been working on a "healight" since 2016.
https://apnews.com/b44f4531071e6204023f7b8e16f59d4b
Scott Adams has mentioned "healight" a couple of times,same with Rush Limbaugh.
Are there actually any chemicals/medicines that can be injected to cure or minimize an illness?
Meanwhile, in lovely Californis, we gonna be digging up the January dead and checkin' for the wuflu
Healight Platform Technologies. An interesting video also.
Trump should have said that the crooked media took his comment out context which is what they did. It was a misstep by Trump to claimed sarcasm.
“It was a misstep by Trump to claimed sarcasm.”
Yes it was. He needn’t have lied and said it was sarcasm. If he was thinking of this Healight technology, he should’ve been prepared and named it properly, he could’ve save himself a lot of embarrassment. Trump has this idea that he doesn’t need to prepare for things, in this case a little preparation would’ve helped him a great deal.
Inga, you’re a psychotic liar.
What are you doing out in public?
The crooked liberal media and the crooked democrats are determined to destroy our economy so Trump won't get re-elected. It's a shame what they've done, there should have never been a shutdown, it's starting to look like the death rate from the coronavirus will be about 1%.
Pneumonia treatment by photodynamic therapy with extracorporeal illumination - an experimental model.
Geralde MC1,2, Leite IS3, Inada NM3, Salina AC4, Medeiros AI4, Kuebler WM5, Kurachi C3, Bagnato VS3.
Author information
Abstract
Infectious pneumonia is a major cause of morbidity/mortality, mainly because of the increasing rate of microorganisms resistant to antibiotics. Photodynamic Therapy (PDT) is emerging as a promising approach, as effects are based on oxidative stress, preventing microorganism resistance. In two previous studies, the in vitro inactivation of Streptococcus pneumoniae using indocyanine green (ICG) and infrared light source was a success killing 5 log10 colony-forming units (CFU/mL) with only 10 μmol/L ICG. In this work, a proof-of-principle protocol was designed to treat lung infections by PDT using extracorporeal illumination with a 780 nm laser device and also ICG as photosensitizer. Hairless mice were infected with S. pneumoniae and PDT was performed two days after infection. For control groups, CFU recovery ranged between 103-104/mouse. For PDT group, however, no bacteria were recovered in 80% of the animals. Based on this result, animal survival was evaluated separately over 50 days. No deaths occurred in PDT group, whereas 60% of the control group died. Our results indicate that extracorporeal PDT has the potential for pneumonia treatment, and pulmonary decontamination with PDT may be used as a single therapy or as an antibiotics adjuvant.
© 2017 The Authors. Physiological Reports published by Wiley Periodicals, Inc. on behalf of The Physiological Society and the American Physiological Society.
You should be embarrassed as a retired MD for promoting something to combat Covid 19 that you didn’t understand yourself.
Inga, you need to stop sounding so stupid. It has not been used in WuFlu and it is an example of a potential way to treat viruses. Did you notice the mention of viruses and herpes ? The early locus of SARS-2 is the nose and it may remain there for a week or more before becoming systemic. Esophageal cancer is treated by PDT using an endoscope. There are nasal and sinus endoscopes.
OK I give up.
“In two previous studies, the in vitro inactivation of Streptococcus pneumoniae using indocyanine green (ICG) and infrared light source was a success killing 5 log10 colony-forming units (CFU/mL) with only 10 μmol/L ICG. In this work, a proof-of-principle protocol was designed to treat lung infections by PDT using extracorporeal illumination with a 780 nm laser device and also ICG as photosensitizer. Hairless mice were infected with S. pneumoniae and PDT was performed two days after infection. For control groups, CFU recovery ranged between 103-104/mouse. For PDT group, however, no bacteria were recovered in 80% of the animals.”
It’s good to know they’ve now done some studies on mice instead of merely in vitro. No human studies.
“Inga, you need to stop sounding so stupid. It has not been used in WuFlu and it is an example of a potential way to treat viruses. Did you notice the mention of viruses and herpes ?”
In VITRO and now in mice. NOT HUMANS. Stop proving how senile you are.
“The early locus of SARS-2 is the nose and it may remain there for a week or more before becoming systemic. Esophageal cancer is treated by PDT using an endoscope. There are nasal and sinus endoscopes.”
No kidding, CANCER CELLS, not viruses. What don’t you understand about IN VITRO and in HUMANS? PDT has not been used to kill VIRUSES in humans.
I didn't get the sense Trump knew about Healight.
But his reasoning to think of it generally was not off.
When they came after him about these things he should have leaned on the hypothetical framework he used as opposed to trying to rewrite the scene we all saw.
I agree with folks here who think these pressers should be shorter.
The "experts" there are not looking so good, IMHO. Might be wise to garner some distance.
“I didn't get the sense Trump knew about Healight.
But his reasoning to think of it generally was not off.”
I agree.
“When they came after him about these things he should have leaned on the hypothetical framework he used as opposed to trying to rewrite the scene we all saw.”
I agree
I wish there were at least some democrats half as smart as Heather Mac Donald.
"The Deadly Costs of Extended Shutdown Orders"
https://amgreatness.com/2020/04/22/the-deadly-costs-of-extended-shutdown-orders/?fbclid=IwAR3Tmgujk0ZK14OwTeczV7G2f2Y0YLoHlyG7yRA-g2Th5xYcS22mW2MqKI8
if anyone shoots up Lysol, it wont be because they saw the presser
...but read a fake news headline
I see Inga is now the blog expert on PDT. I rest my case.
I'm bored.
Thank you again Rosa Marie, you still most accurately and succinctly describe this whole controversy and comment thread.
Inga. Shut the hell up.
And that too. Thank you.
Trump’s early statements (fifteen cases would soon be down to zero etc) indicated he lacks a basic understanding of virus biology. Not only was this bad for public health but it also deprived us of deeply satisfying political entertainment. If Trump had correctly perceived the threat and gotten out in front of the pandemic early, the logic of our politics would have dictated vehement opposition from the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, and the entire Democratic party, regardless of the science. The ensuing spectacle of watching biology prove them wrong would have made the deaths of hundreds of thousands of our fellow citizens almost bearable.
“Inga. Shut the hell up.”
No, I won’t. Don’t like it? Too bad.
If anyone intelligent wishes to pursue this topic, it is continued at Chicagoboyz.
To continue the comedy, Trump’s early statements (fifteen cases would soon be down to zero etc) indicated he lacks a basic understanding of virus biology.
Why in the world would anyone expect the president to have a "basic understanding of virus biology?" He has staff for that. How's your understanding of virus biology ?
“I see Inga is now the blog expert on PDT. I rest my case.”
I’m not and neither are YOU.
“Why in the world would anyone expect the president to have a "basic understanding of virus biology?" He has staff for that. How's your understanding of virus biology ?”
Probably better than you. Trump doesn’t seem to be very good as listening to his staff.
Here you go, Inga. I posted this yesterday but since history starts afresh for you each day, I repost it. I'll probably have to repost it tomorrow, and Monday, and tuesday and...
ENGLEWOOD, CO / ACCESSWIRE / April 20, 2020 / Aytu BioScience, Inc. (AYTU) (the "Company"), a specialty pharmaceutical company focused on commercializing novel products that address significant patient needs announced today that it has signed an exclusive worldwide license from Cedars-Sinai to develop and commercialize the Healight Platform Technology ("Healight"). This medical device technology platform, discovered and developed by scientists at Cedars-Sinai, is being studied as a potential first-in-class treatment for coronavirus and other respiratory infections.
...
The Healight technology employs proprietary methods of administering intermittent ultraviolet (UV) A light via a novel endotracheal medical device. (Emph added-JRH)
...
The data have been the basis of discussions with the FDA for a near-term path to enable human use for the potential treatment of coronavirus
...
"Our team has shown that administering a specific spectrum of UV-A light can eradicate viruses in infected human cells (including coronavirus) and bacteria in the area while preserving healthy cells,"
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/aytu-bioscience-signs-exclusive-global-120000824.html
John Henry
It's difficult to imagine that minds as brilliant as Andrew Sullivan's and Rod Dreher's fell for Trump's trolling, but they did.
https://spectator.us/arent-meant-take-trump-medical-insights-seriously-disinfectant-sunlight/
Perhaps that in itself is a symptom of one of the virus' sinister new mutations.
Everybody likes Ricky Gervais...
“The fact that there are warnings like ‘Do not drink’ on bottles of bleach makes me realize that Donald Trump can become president.”
— Ricky Gervais, on Twitter, March 6, 2016.
"would have made the deaths of hundreds of thousands of our fellow citizens almost bearable."
You mean the predicted deaths.
They might be conflicted over wanting to exaggerate/profit over the situation vs hammering Team Trump for over-blowing it.
Blogger Inga said...
Probably better than you. Trump doesn’t seem to be very good as listening to his staff.
More stupidity from our resident stupidity meister.
He seems VERY good about listening to his staff.
What Inga can't figure out is what the word "listening" means.
She seems to think it means automatically doing what they say.
John Henry
Uh..John Henry,
Read the thread?
John Henry, I posted a link to the Healight upstream@3PM, after WALTER provided the AP article.
“He seems VERY good about listening to his staff.”
Ha, I wonder which staff member told him to LIE and say he was being sarcastic. You sound as senile and slow on the draw as Michael K.
Also bored with this subject and agree with watch what he does not what he says. Surely Joe will save us.
Inga read something and immediately pretended it was everything ever published. Nobody is saying this they know this works, but that it may. Inga read something and now claims it does not work, and therefore should not be spoken of again. Why? Not becuase she gives a shit about if it works or not, but becuase she thinks that if it doesn't work that's good because it means Trump was wrong to even mention it. That means that even if she's right, which has never happened on this blog, she's still wrong.
"Ha, I wonder which staff member told him to LIE and say he was being sarcastic."
Yea, that's the important thing. We should start an investigation.
It was, indeed, bad science. However, Trump is not a scientist or a doctor. He was, essentially, spitballing some off-the-wall ideas that were not good ideas. However, sometimes off-the-wall ideas can cause people to look at a problem from a different point of view than the experts may have. Trump thinks outside the box. A lot of outside the box ideas may be bad, but some of them may be good. Many big discoveries are made by people who think outside the box.
Trump has used the briefings to needle his political opponents
By the standards the Times uses for Trump, they are accusing him of injecting substances into Democrat office holders during these briefings.
heh, bgates, we could try with skippy O'Rourke, the one that wishes he was adopted by the kennedy's
Inga said...
...The amount of unreasonable support Trump still gets from his followers doesn’t speak well for them.
Inga, we know that the people on your side are toxic specimens of humanity who mean our side harm. Any and all support of Trump is perfectly reasonable in that context. Trump is not perfect, but he is a fuckload better than the Democrats. Full stop.
Inga sure can kill a thread.
“Inga sure can kill a thread.”
What’s the matter Michael, didn’t anyone come over to Chicago Boyz to talk to you, so you had to come back here again? You’re so childish for an old geezer.
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