"No cheeks were kissed, no friendly rubs were given, none of the bonhomie of their earlier meetings was on display. So much for the bromance. After a promising start, the relationship between President Trump and President Emmanuel Macron of France has soured. By the time they met in Paris on Saturday, the trans-Atlantic alliance that was to be showcased by this weekend’s commemoration of the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I appeared to be fraying instead.... It did not help on Saturday that Mr. Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery at the foot of the hill where the Battle of Belleau Wood was fought. Aides cited the rain; the Marines who pilot presidential helicopters often recommend against flying in bad weather. But that did not convince many in Europe who saw it as an excuse and another sign of disrespect. Ben Rhodes, who was deputy national security adviser to President Barack Obama, dismissed the explanation. 'I helped plan all of President Obama’s trips for 8 years,' he tweeted. 'There is always a rain option. Always.' Mr. Trump will have another chance to pay respects to the war dead on Sunday with a scheduled visit to the Suresnes American Cemetery outside Paris following the ceremony at the Arc de Triomphe marking the anniversary of the armistice at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month. But he will not stay for a Paris peace forum that Mr. Macron is sponsoring to bring together world leaders to discuss ways to avoid conflict."
From "Bonhomie? C’est Fini as Trump and Macron Seek to Defuse Tension" (NYT).
ADDED: Presumably, "There is always a rain option" because the President could be in a dangerous situation — an attack or a health crisis — and flying under dangerous conditions would be the least bad option. You need the option worked out, but then there's a balance of risks. I don't know how the risks looked on the ground yesterday and how the pros and cons were balanced. How much weight is put on the optics of a public ceremony? How much weight was put on the discomfort and health risk of standing in the (cold?) rain for X hours? It did make me think of the President who died from standing in the cold rain.
November 11, 2018
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42 comments:
When Trump cozies up to foreign leaders, it's just another example of how awful he is. When Trump doesn't cozy up to foreign leaders, it's just another example of how awful he is.
There's some negotiation going on. Trump doesn't feel one way or another. He's dealing.
Why would any journalist believe a word from Ben Rhodes after The Atlantic story? He’s an admitted liar and proud of it.
Ben Rhodes knows it wasn’t Trump’s call.
Not gonna read this linked article, just can't do NYT anymore. And for that matter, same with WAPO. Whatever the issue, it seems to me their primary purpose is to portray the president in a bad light. He's plenty bad enough without their distortion, but no matter what he does or what follows from it, they fill focus on only the most negative aspect they can find. If I want to stay informed I'll have to find other sources.
Time to try CNN?
Trump might snub the French (who wouldn't?) but not the USMC.
Someone should have put up a marquee for the elites, but I suspect the real issue was the USSS hadn't secured a ground path and didn't trust the French to do it properly.
Well, if Ben Rhodes says it's so . . .
Here's a question
Did O'Bama ever go to Aisne-Marne American Cemetery at the foot of the hill where the Battle of Belleau Wood was fought?
Ralph--or it might even be that French security wasn't confident, and said so.
From Wikipedia.
White crosses and Stars of David mark 2,289 graves, 250 for unknown service members, and the names of 1,060 missing men adorn the wall of a memorial chapel.
This is NYT B.S.
Belleau Wood is an American thing, not French, so Americans may question why Trump did not go there, but it is no slight to the French - it is no business of theirs.
If they want a ceremony attended in spite of rain, send the Vice President. No downside risk there.
Ask Lech KaczyĆski about how well ignoring his pilot's advice about the weather worked out for him !
Saving Europe from the Europeans never ends. France and Germany will not settle down until they are ruling Europe through a Mega State called the EU that uses everybody: Americans as their defenders and Muslims as their guerilla killers.
In this case, doesn't "rain option" mean planning a journey by land.
Still, what's newsy about this, par for the course; speaking of which, they should have told him it was a potential site for a new golf course and the trip was needed to seal the deal.
yes, but where is the fun in pointing that out:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/11/its_not_quite_kristallnacht_but_its_not_the_fourth_of_july_either.html
"So much for the bromance. After a promising start, the relationship between President Trump and President Emmanuel Macron of France has soured. "
As predicted, by Yours Truly.
"There is always a rain option" A good example of what Scott Adams calls "halfpinions". Any opinion that talks about the benefits, or the costs, but not both.
You quickly come to realize that all politicians never say anything but halfpinions. Never say anything but the side that favors them.
There's a lot of talk about how Donald Trump tells a lot of lies. But no politician ever tells the truth. Ever.
Meanwhile, President Macron stated that France needs a larger army to defend itself against Russia, China, and the United States.
France needs better economic development for that purpose, but to state it in military terms and in context of Armistice Day is highly offensive, given the the 20th century history.
Yet I have seen no criticism of Macron over this statement.
Another story the left is running with, and President Trump will let them hang themselves in a short time. The media will never ever win with the President playing his game by his rules.
Same as the wild fires. He's right. Facts are on his side.
Do they want to debate the death toll in Puerto Rico again and try to use the Harvard claim of 4500 dead?
The media likes to do this for the low information voter. They all see the controversy, never stick around to find out President Trump is right.
I have no idea the what or why in France. I do know for a fact the media is lying about it.
Belleau Wood Is where the French should be groveling at our feet. The Germans had totally broken the French lines in June 1918 and the German army had nothing to stop them from marching on Paris, less than 60 miles away. Nothing but untested American troops. At the Marne River the US 3rd Division blunted the attack and turned it. As Chris Kyle put it in American Gun, Belleau Wood was where the US Marines saw to it that if the Germans wanted to see Paris, they’d have to wait until after the war and come as tourists.
When the Germans tried again, almost precisely 22 years later, there were no American troops to stop them.
Also a very foolish statement. If the U.S. and China ever go at it militarily, everyone else, including the Russian Federation, had better just seek cover in place, and France's position will be entirely irrelevant.
No cheeks were kissed, no friendly rubs were given
Someone needs a dog.
Be interesting to find out what is the truth:
A. Logistics/ Rain / Security
B. Health (my assumption)
C. Negotiating - very plausible. The defend against the us was a slap in the face.
If Trump had attended the ceremony these same critics would have attacked him for that. They'd have said his very presence was an insult to those who fought for one reason or another.
No cheeks were kissed, no friendly rubs were given
No bows were made.
“But he will not stay for a Paris peace forum that Mr. Macron is sponsoring to bring together world leaders to discuss ways to avoid conflict."
The lesson of WW1 is that the Fench have still not learned the lessons of WW1.
Heck, the French have still not learned the lessons of 1870...
Or 1815.
“Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism. Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism,”
and "War is Peace," etc., etc.
Who gives a damn if they are buddies?
I want our President to push for whatever is in our national interest. (National? As in Nationalism? Oh my, might I be a Nazi and don't know it?)
I presume the French wish the same from their guy.
Macron's approval rating has dramatically dropped. Perhaps there is some irony in his rejection of Trump's strong nationalism. Does he really think that the French people will be encouraged and his image enhanced by his distancing himself from the USA? If so, wouldn't that sentiment be based on nationalism?
When it rains, Trump's bone spurs inflame. I wish the left would give the guy a break once in a while. Donald... I feel your pain.
Equating nationalism with chauvinism (a French word) or jingoism (English) or whatever word has that connotation in your ancestral language, is just playing word games in today's bureaucratic class wars.
WW1 rememberance is huge in the UK, and I assume France. It’s the holy of Holies. Lots of events with the us royal family yearly.
In the us, way less important. The ww1 memorial in dc in the national mall is very hard to find.
Trump was sending a message.
Being on good terms with France is just about at the bottom of my US agenda list.
GOOD!
Macron received the red carpet and backstabbed US.
Here’s looking at Merkel. Lolololol
(eaglebeak)
1. The "rain" option would have been a motorcade, which is a huge security risk in Paris traffic. That's why Trump, Macron, and Putin were all late to today's commemoration, and that's how feminist "protesters" sans culottes just kidding without shirts got so close to Trump's car.
2. Trump fried French (Macron) with a tweet just before Air Force One landed in Paris:
"President Macron of France has just suggested that Europe build its own military in order to protect itself from the U.S., China and Russia. Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly!"
3. Macron apparently said nationalism is betrayal today at commemoration. I'm sure Trump is pretty pissed about that.... If it weren't for America, France could have hung it up all those years ago.
According to Goodreads https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/375563-ask-him-about-the-cemeteries-dean-in-1966-upon-being:
"In 1966 upon being told that President Charles de Gaulle had taken France out of NATO and that all U.S. troops must be evacuated off of French soil, President Lyndon Johnson mentioned to Secretary of State Dean Rusk that he should ask de Gaulle about the Americans buried in France. Dean implied in his answer that that de Gaulle should not really be asked that in the meeting, at which point President Johnson then told Rusk:
" 'Ask him about the cemeteries, Dean!'
"So at end of the meeting, Rusk did ask de Gaulle if his order to remove all U.S. troops from French soil also included the 60,000+ American soldiers buried in France from World War I and World War II.
"de Gaulle, embarrassed, got up and left and never answered.”
Why should i care what Ben Rhodes says? He's just another Trump hating Democrat.
Macron said Europe needed its own army to defend against Russia AND the USA. Trump got upset at that - as should any American. But of course the NYT just thought it was a slam at Trump - so it was OK.
I think one WW1 Military cemetery visit is enough- how many Presidents have gone to France and not visited ONE?
WW1 has always been overshadowed by the return engagement.
"Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism. Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism,”
Yeah - what a crazy statement.
Why this ridiculous hatred for the word "Nationalism"? TR entitled his Bull Moose program "The New Nationalism".
Molly, glad to hear LBJ got something very right.
Yeah, Macron saying that nationalism will put us 'back in the 1930's', alluding, I presume, to pre-WWII Germany. Nationalism is the only thing standing between all peoples and a one-world government. While I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, I believe that is the goal of many 'elites'.
Ann, perhaps a better idea would have been to ellipse Ben Rhodes. Then no update necessary. His fiction only works on the early twenties new groupies he is used to bamboo long.
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