October 12, 2017

"The Boy Scouts’ decision to open its ranks to girls appears to be less an evolution toward openness and inclusion than a calculated business strategy."

"The move allows the organization, which has been rocked by revelations of decades of sexual abuse, to improve its public image.... Most crucially, it’s a direct attack on the Girl Scouts, a group that shares some historical roots with the Boy Scouts but has grown into a very different organization, with very different values. Unlike the Boy Scouts, in which individual troops are overwhelmingly affiliated with churches — a large share are tied to conservative denominations; an estimated 20 percent of scouts are Mormon, for instance — the Girl Scouts are a secular organization.... The Girl Scouts have long focused on social justice, diversity and inclusion in their activities...."

From a NYT op-ed titled "Girls, Don’t Become Boy Scouts," by Kate Tuttle.

If I were a young girl, I'd pick the organization that had activities that were fun and useful for me to learn, and "social justice, diversity and inclusion" doesn't even sound like an activity.

69 comments:

Bay Area Guy said...

It's pure stupidity. On par with the US Olympic Male Track & Field team, now opening its ranks up to really fast females.

Or fraternities, now opening up their ranks to really hot girls!

The grievance industry has become tedious.

It's also gonna bite them in butt when a few snowflakes and sensitive, Pussy hat-wearing Beta Males wanna join Girl Scouts, sororities, women volleyball teams, etc, etc.

Stop the madness!

YoungHegelian said...

The move allows the organization, which has been rocked by revelations of decades of sexual abuse, to improve its public image.

Improve its image by adding girls to abuse? The answer to an organization that has adult males that abuse young males is to add young females?

Uhhhhmmm, could you run that by me again, please?

I grew up with Boy Scouts & heard the stories about the camp outs & activities, even with all boy troops. If I had a 14 yr old daughter, the only way I'd let her go on a camp out with a bunch of 14 yr old boys is if she could go wearing a haz-mat suit inside a deep-see diving suit.

rcocean said...

This will end with the destruction of the boy scouts. The same SJW/secular types that ruined the Girl Scouts will simply join the BSA and do the same thing.

BDNYC said...

"Diversity" and "inclusion" but they won't admit boys. So much for that!

rcocean said...

BTW, i was BS until I was 13, and never heard once about any Gay Stuff, ever.

Most of BS scout masters were retired military types, who thought they were giving back the community. Most of them were involved church affairs to.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

"social justice, diversity and inclusion" doesn't even sound like an activity.

It's not. It's boring as shit and the girls hated it. I was a troop leader when they rolled out the "Journeys" program which was dreamed up by consultants (makes you glad to stand for hours at card tables in January selling cookies to pay these people, amirite?) and amounted to a series of workbooks to indoctrinate the girls with leftist bullshit. It was homework, plain and simple. I remember one activity that directed the girls to choose 3 notable women from a list of 10 to learn more about and then make a presentation (because that's exactly what fifth graders want to do after doing exactly that crap all day at school). 8 of the 10 women were lesbians. LOL.

The Scouts that I remembered from when I was a girl and was the reason I initially signed up my girls ~ you know, where you could do fun activities for an hour a week and earn patches to display, plus nice things like caroling at old folks' homes and riding horses at camp ~ is long gone. Between the veer over to a program that isn't actually fun anymore and teaches nonsense, and the hours and hours of my life gone administering cookie sales that went to pay employee salaries, SJW consultants and a luxe headquarters in New York (google it), we bailed.

We no longer do Girl Scouts but my son is a Cub Scout and I just sigh, waiting for the girls to show up and fuck it up, with their feelings and their sensitivity and their girl drama and their ability to sit still for long periods. And I say that as the mother of four beautiful daughters whom I adore.

RNB said...

Entirely logical and the logic is inescapable:

* The Boy Scouts must admit girls because any male-only organization is, simply by existing, oppressive to women and an agency (even if unwitting) of the Patriarchy.

* Boys may not join the Girl Scouts because only with access to male-free sanctuaries can women be truly free, sheltered from the abusive behavior of men.

mccullough said...

Lol. The Boy Scouts beat the Girl Scouts to equality. Time to rebrand it The Scouts.

Jane the Actuary said...

Here's the story we were told at a Scout leader "roundtable": they were trying to reach out to Millennials, and to immigrant families, and these families told them that they wanted a family-oriented program where the whole family, including daughters, could participate. Hence, the initial focus was on Cub Scouts, and the idea is that the whole family goes to meetings, but that the girls and boys meet in separate breakout-group dens during this meeting time.

The girls at the Boy Scout age is a follow-on from this, because they didn't feel they could invite girls into Cub Scouts, then leave them hanging once they reach Boy Scout-age.

For what it's worth.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/janetheactuary/2017/10/girl-cub-scouts-update.html

rhhardin said...

Do they still carry a boy scout pocket knife everywhere now?

Gospace said...

rhhardin said...
Do they still carry a boy scout pocket knife everywhere now?


If they have their Totin' Chip. Except, of course, in school, where knives for some reason are automatically weapons rather then tools. I had one in my pocket every day from 6th grade on.

I live in a very rural area now. I have to wonder how many kids before or after school are handling tools and implements that would get them expelled if brought to school. And most high school age males (and a few females) shot for food during hunting season. And varmint hunt as needed.

Rae said...

The Existential Crisis Scouts will be unrecognizble within 10 years, just like the Globalist Transgender Flag Football League.

California Snow said...


I was a Scoutmaster in the BSA for a few years and am an Eagle Scout myself. I am looking forward to being on campouts with my boys when they are old enough and helping them earn their merit badges. It just feels like men & boys can't have a space alone any more to be men and boys. My church did a Fathers/Sons campout this year and tries to do it every year and this year one of the men brought their daughters. They are wonderful girls and it's wasn't a big deal but I couldn't help feeling frustrated by it. Why can't we just have a Father's/Sons campout? Why can't boys have a simple thing for themselves? Why can't girls have the same? Scouting has been a big part of my life and it feels like it's getting gutted.

Kevin said...

It just feels like men & boys can't have a space alone any more to be men and boys.

Anyone who wants that is just trying to perpetuate the patriarchy.

/sarcasm

Gahrie said...

Why can't boys have a simple thing for themselves?

Power and control

Why can't girls have the same?

They can.

California Snow said...

This is not the straw the breaks the camel's back when it comes to the Mormon's relationship with the BSA but the writing is on the wall. A separation is coming and when that happens the BSA is over. It will fold within a decade or so and Lord Baden-Powells' grand vision of training boys to be men will essentially be over (at least in the United States).

jerpod said...

California Snow say: “...it feelis like it’s being gutted”

Iowahawk again:

1. Identify a respected institution.
2. kill it.
3. gut it.
4. wear its carcass as a skin suit, while demanding respect.

What a perfect example.

gspencer said...

Boy Scouts, now with girls!

What's the point now with having a Boy Scouts program?

At a minimum, they'll need a name change.

tim in vermont said...

The Girl Scouts want a Berlin Wall to keep all of the happy girls from escaping. It's always like that with the left.

Pete said...

If girls want to do what Boy Scouts do, where can they go to do it? Doesn't sound like the Girl Scouts is the place to go so the Boy Scouts are open to give girls the opportunity. So if not the Boy Scouts, where? Sounds like an opportunity for a third way.

tim in vermont said...

Remember when the Democratic Convention of New York State that nominated Hillary for the Senate spit on the Boy Scout color guard?

Then came a weaselly denial nobody believed, lying Boy Scouts, you know.

walter said...

the Girl Scouts, a group that shares some historical roots with the Boy Scouts but has grown into a very different organization, with very different values.... social justice, diversity and inclusion in their activities...."
--
Kinda reminds me of all the SJW slogans on the South Madison YWCA building.

n.n said...

This must be progress from political congruence ("=") activism that posits boys and girls, male and female, masculine and feminine, are interchangeable, and, in fact, fluid, qualities of diversity.

walter said...

Blogger Pete said...
If girls want to do what Boy Scouts do,
--
Interesting "if".
I'm guessing the cub scout level will be way more co-ed than the Scout level...unless they change what Boy Scouts do to be what girls want to do.
Right now it feels like adults working numbers and angles.

jimbino said...

I joined the Boy Scouts at age 11. I remember that my older buddies there were training for a Merit Badge in masturbation. The Boy Scouts still discriminate against atheists, whether leaders or scouts. Good reason to stick with the Girl Scouts.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

Decades of sexual abuse carried out by transgender homosexuals targeting adolescent and prepubescent (?) males. The same dysfunction that afflicted the Catholic Church.

iowan2 said...

We shepherded one child each through their respective scouting programs, and took leadership roles in both.
Without a doubt Boy Scouts is far better. Their only goal was to instill proper character values. That's it. Our son is an Eagle Scout, and constantly runs into other Eagle Scouts in leadership positions of industry, education, and civil groups. Our Daughter does not share the same experiences.

tim in vermont said...

I was an atheist in a church sponsored troop and remember zero issues. Of course I wasn't an asshole about it, I just liked camping, woodcraft, and still use the knots.

Smilin' Jack said...

If I were a young girl, I'd pick the organization that had activities that were fun and useful for me to learn, and "social justice, diversity and inclusion" doesn't even sound like an activity.

I don't know--tearing down statues and beating up fascists sounds like more fun than sitting around learning to tie complicated knots.

D said...

We all discriminate. We select who we go to friday lunch with at work, rather than ensure that each of the 50 employees get their fair share of your time.

If Boy Scouts wants to be co-ed, go ahead. You will be competing with other coed groups who have similar agendas and who dont have to drop the "Boy" from the name. You just wont be the Boy Scouts any longer. You will be something else.
If Girl Scouts wants to be single sex, go ahead. You are still free to do so, I would hope.

If Girls Scouts wants to make it so that Boy Scouts doesnt get to have girls - this, after years of seeing legal battles for the inclusion of women into traditional men clubs, uh, I dont get it.
You cant start to tell OTHER people who to NOT let into THEIR club, do you? You tell them you must allow here, and you must NOT allow here.... Hmm, sounds like pure power politics to me. Cake and eat it too syndrome run amok.

Freeman Hunt said...

Families want to have one scouting night of the week, not two.

Freeman Hunt said...

More people would want to do Girl Scouts if it were better.

The Godfather said...

I can understand why some girls would like to participate in the kinds of activities the Boy Scouts have, particularly if the Girl Scouts have become the kind of organization that several commenters have described. What I don't understand is why the BSA would want to make the change. Has their membership taken such a hit that they need to recruit girls to fill their ranks?

Henry said...

This is like the Lion's Club complaining about the Masons.

Michael K said...

This will end with the destruction of the boy scouts. The same SJW/secular types that ruined the Girl Scouts will simply join the BSA and do the same thing.

Yes. In the 1980s, Peter Drucker said the Girl Scouts were one of the best run non-profits since they had successfully transitioned from the days of housewives wanting something to do with their daughters to working mothers and "quality time" with their daughters.

That, of course, was before the destruction of the culture by the left got going strong.

Sally327 said...

I wonder if the boys are going to start selling cookies now. Which could be kind of fun. Cookie wars!

walter said...

Merit Badges

Pianoman said...

Will the Boy Scouts start selling Thin Mints?

hombre said...

Boys? What are boys?

Henry said...

Many boy scout troops are affiliated with religious organizations. That's one of those things that Americans seem to do.

Where I live there are two boy scout troops. One is affiliated with an orthodox Jewish temple. The other is affiliated with Our Lady of Sorrows. I'm sure somewhere in the boglands of southeastern Massachusetts a Mormon troop is lurking.

The Catholic troop is truly catholic. Some of the kids may even be Catholic. It also includes the reform congregation kids, the sons of Asian and Indian immigrants, and sarcastic secularists like my kid. Each troop meeting does end with a non-denominational spiritual minute. Ms. Tuttle would not approve.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

"...less an evolution toward openness and inclusion than a calculated business strategy."

Well, that's free market capitalism fer ya. Girl Scouts against that, are they?

Althouse' thema del dia must be lessons in economic systems: eating cat in Venezuela (really bizarre, definitely should cook first); death of Obamacare by a thousand cuts.

Henry said...

@Michael K -- Any good boy scout troop has a ton of moms involved. And, as Ms. Tuttle scolded, there are all those religious denominations sponsoring troops. I don't think you need to worry about the moms of the girls that want to join.

My 90-year-old dad was an Eagle scout. He told me once that every time his troop went for a hike they had a mule to carry the baggage. Now that was real scouting.

Known Unknown said...

Adventure Scouts anyone?

Jupiter said...

The Godfather said...
"What I don't understand is why the BSA would want to make the change. Has their membership taken such a hit that they need to recruit girls to fill their ranks?"

Because they already caved on the homosexuals. It's called "momentum". Once you start heading downhill, you pick up speed.

George Grady said...

If my experience with my three older boys is at all typical, this won't make much of a difference with Cub Scouts. If any of the scouts had sisters of the right age, they came and participated with the activities anyway. Our Cub Scout campouts were always family campouts, and whole families came for the most part. The kids were too young to really care one way or the other.

Where this would make a much bigger difference is with the Boy Scouts. There, the activities are much more driven and led by the scouts themselves, and they do a lot more stuff on their own. Adding girls into that mix will greatly change the dynamics, especially since that's the age that the kids really start noticing that girls and boys are, in fact, different.

So, as for leaving the girls hanging once they reach Boy Scout age, well, that's the way it's been for ages, so far as I can see. Middle school and high school is the age where kids really benefit from having some sex-segregated organizations. If Boy Scouts sees demand from girls to do the whole Boy Scout thing, they should have them do it separately under the Boy Scout umbrella organization.

Paddy O said...

Boy Scouts To Allow Old Men Into Cub Scouts Program

Gahrie said...

Each troop meeting does end with a non-denominational spiritual minute.

A Scout is reverent.

Henry said...

Yes.

Cog said...

This is not a good idea for the boys. Pre-adolescent giirls mature earlier and faster, which will cause problems, especially when they begin to dominate the scouting experience. At a young age, boys simply drop out or avoid activities dominated by girls. For example, Pope John Paul decided to permit girl altar servers some time ago and nowadays young female altar servers are often all you will see at a Sunday Mass.

n.n said...

to be less an evolution toward openness and inclusion...

than a calculated business strategy."


In other words: evolution or chaos, which, despite popular misconceptions, is not disordered, but rather a condition of limited skill and perception. The toward statement is one of bigotry that is common to people who construct their fitness function on abortion rites, class diversity (e.g. racism), political congruence (i.e. selective inclusion), and redistributive change (e.g. single-payer capital controls).

Scott M said...

If I were a young girl, I'd pick the organization that had activities that were fun and useful for me to learn, and "social justice, diversity and inclusion" doesn't even sound like an activity.

My 9yo daughter was in Girl Scouts for two years and decided she didn't want to do it anymore. My 7yo is in his second year of Cub Scouts and she's constantly asking to come along to the activities his pack is involved in. From a parent's POV, the Girl Scouts, from their regular meetings to their ceremonies and such, phone it in. Even the life-long Girl Scouts that were involved were milquetoast at best. The Boy Scouts, on the other hand, actually do things that kids want to do.

As far as the Girl Scouts' official reaction...reactionary much?

Ficta said...

Adventists have had coed "scouting" for decades and it works just fine. And it's mostly traditional boy scout type stuff, camping, axes, fires, etc.

Well, I did get the sewing badge, but I'm not sure the boy scouts don't have that too.

Patrick said...

I have been a Boy Scout (didn't get to Eagle, though), and a Scout leader for several years, and will be for quite a few more. I find myself much less opposed to the idea of allowing girls into Boy Scouts than I would have thought. First though, the obvious must be said: It would not be an issue if the Girls Scouts had programming that girls wanted. Many of the parents of kids in our troop have daughters who are either not in Girl Scouts or are dis-satisfied with Girl Scouts. The girls see what our Troop does (monthly campouts, winter campouts, hiking, rock climbing, sailing, scuba, etc., and are often asking if they can take part. It makes sense to me that the Scouts can open up those opportunities to girls, because the Girl Scouts won't do that sort of thing.

I will say, I do not look forward to having a co-ed group, and I believe that is where all of this is headed. Assuming that happens, I would hope that the Scouts stay strong and true to their program - keep the outdoor focus, keep giving the kids opportunities to participate in dangerous activities, and let them learn by trying and failing and doing it again. Camping with a co-ed group of teens does not seem like a good idea.

Because of the abuse scandals, we are used to safety training and "two deep" leadership, and will really have to continue that.

I do hope they manage to keep the girls and boys separate. I'm old enough to believe that boys and girls are different, and ought to be able to have time with just boys or just girls. I'm young enough to believe that a lot of girls want opportunities that the Boy Scouts offer and the Girl Scouts do not.

Gahrie said...

I'm young enough to believe that a lot of girls want opportunities that the Boy Scouts offer and the Girl Scouts do not.

A better answer it would seem, would be to reform the Girl Scouts. When I was in the Boy Scouts we went to many camp outs and Jamborees that had Girl Scout troops there. I had the fortune to be in a troop (Troop 219) on an American air force base in England, so we went to quite a few international jamborees, and I even spent a week on Baden Powell island.

Real American said...

"social justice, diversity and inclusion" is an activity for everyone else.

Ben Calvin said...

Most Scouting programs globally are co-ed. The U.S. has been the outlier here.

And, in fact Boy Scouts of America (BSA) already has co-ed programs for kids 14-20: Sea Scouts, Venturing and Varsity Scouting.

For many years now BSA has had a very strong Youth Protection protocol, with mandatory training and procedures like 2-deep leadership to avoid any one-on-one situations.

FWIW my son is a 17 year-old scout, working on his Eagle badge. His troop is sponsored by a community group, not a church. He's also a Sea Scout, sailing and working on wooden boats every weekend. And technically he's also a Venture Scout from working at a BSA camp the last two summers.

The co-ed nature of the existing programs is not an issue - frankly it can keep kids in scouting as they get older as the can have more of their whole social life involved in scouting.

Rick said...

Boy Scouts are doing this because many families find it easier / better when all their children can participate.

That said examine Tuttle's criticism on its own terms and presume the change is a concession to the left's public attacks. Note how renouncing elements the left has criticized is immediately reframed as an attack on an allied institution and derided as political. Were their original criticisms an honest viewpoint they would welcome the change instead. This is why no institution should ever change in response to left wing criticism. SJWs react to any compromise with additional demands just as Democrats do with political compromise. In fact they view your compromise as a sign of weakness and attack more.

David Baker said...

Then call it the Birl Scouts.

tim in vermont said...

I always took that "reverent" line to mean respectful. Never bothered me either.

Larry J said...

One of my coworkers has a son (Eagle Scout) who works for the Boy Scouts in a regional office. He told me this was coming weeks ago. Enrollment in the Boy Scouts has been declining for years. One of the reasons is that families are busy. The Boy Scouts did a lot of surveys and analysis to see what they could do to stop the downward trend. They found that parents who had sons and daughters wanted activities that both could do. That's one of the reasons youth soccer is so popular. By opening up the Boy Scouts to girls - still with sex segregated packs and troops - they hope to increase enrollment. They also learned that many girls wanted to do the same kind of fun things like camping and hiking that the Boy Scouts do instead of being feminists in training and selling cookies.

Wilbur said...

Rick said...
SJWs react to any compromise with additional demands just as Democrats do with political compromise. In fact they view your compromise as a sign of weakness and attack more.
___________________________________________________________________________________
This. The camel gets its nose under the tent.

I signed up for Cub Scouts because I liked the navy blue unis. We met at a den mother's house once a week, and sat squirming for an hour until she let go out in the yard and play tackle football. It was so bad I had zero interest in joining the Boy Scouts. But I did indeed have friends who liked it, loved it.

The Pinewood Derby was a thrill. My father was too busy working two jobs to help, so I took it over to my very elderly grandfather's house. We worked on it with his basement lathes, sanders and assorted machinery, but it still looked like an 88 year-old, almost blind man made it. The other kids AND their fathers got a real kick out of my car, pointing, hooting and chortling at it. Great memories of scouting.

Biff said...

The NYT wrote the technically accurate, but somewhat misleading "Unlike the Boy Scouts, in which individual troops are overwhelmingly affiliated with churches — a large share are tied to conservative denominations; an estimated 20 percent of scouts are Mormon, for instance — the Girl Scouts are a secular organization."

Up until just a few years ago, a plurality, if not an outright majority, of Boy Scout troops actually were "affiliated" with public schools. My own town had six Boy Scout troops: four met in their local public school gyms, and two met at Catholic schools. This was a pretty common scene in many towns.

The town's Board of Education voted to ban Scouting from school facilities because of Scouting's positions on sexual identity/politics. Three of the troops folded shortly thereafter, largely because of a lack of convenient meeting places that were willing to become potential targets in the culture wars and, more mundanely, could accommodate 30-50 rambunctious boys one evening a week. Each of the three troops that folded had been meeting at the schools for fifty or more years.

Now the town has three troops: two based out of churches and one out of the local Elks Club. This is the new common scene in many towns.

Basically, the Boy Scouts were hounded out of their historic homes by the SJW crowd.

tommyesq said...

Boy Scouts to allow women. Women and Girl Scout children hit hardest.

sparrow said...

I'm a Asst. Scoutmaster, in our troop, we've known this was coming for a while. I don't think this change was as consequential as the gay/transgender ones given that the girl dens and troops will be independent. BSA is bleeding membership because of it's leftwing tilt and near total leadership versus parent disconnect. It hopes to shore up it's numbers with girls. We'll see. I doubt there'll be much interest in our parish.

wildswan said...

Catholics have seen what happens when gays suddenly enter an all-male organization from which they have been excluded. The new social organization has not built up norms and protections and the result is disastrous. And all attempts at reform or at exposing abuses are frustrated by liberals claiming that there are no abuses, only anti-gay campaigners. And I have no doubt that the problem the Catholic Church had is going on in the Boy Scouts. That doesn't mean it's everywhere because individual areas might develop norms and protections. It means that where it has become entrenched it is impossible to reform from within, just as the Milwaukee Archdiocese had to be exposed by the secular press and reformed by secular law courts.

Paul said...

Call them 'The Rainbow Scouts'! Or 'The LGBTPS (P for pedophile and S for strait) Scouts'!

RonF said...

I'm entering my 26th year as a Scout leader. Given that Troops will be single-sex and not co-ed I don't see a big problem with this. And I think that young women who want this program are not the ones who join Girl Scouts (or stay in it for more than a year) and that it will be of great benefit to them.

As far as the NYT article goes, let's see them come up with any significant number of them since the 1980's. The BSA has dealt with it and is now considered as having the best policies and enforcement thereof to stop abuse of all youth programs.

Scott said...

When I was a Scout in the late 50's we would pool all our dues money and throw parties with girls in someone's basement. Within 30 minutes the "party" devolved into a big make out session. Honest to god, we were the "Beaver" Patrol..