Myeshia Johnson sits for an interview with George Stephanopoulos this morning:
Trump's response this morning is: "I had a very respectful conversation with the widow of Sgt. La David Johnson, and spoke his name from beginning, without hesitation!"
Stephanopoulos began the interview with "I hope you're feeling the thoughts and prayers of everyone." Meade, who was listening and not watching, said: "He sounds like he's speaking to a child."
I said: "Well, he's modeling the kind of empathy that he wants us to understand that Trump failed to express. But he sounds smarmy and patronizing which shows how hard it actually is to do it right."
Johnson seemed most concerned with the facts about her husband's death and the treatment of his dead body: "They won’t show me a finger, a hand; I know my husband’s body from head-to-toe and they won’t let me see anything." She sounds troubled by doubt: "I need to see him so I will know that that is my husband."
I'm thinking that alternative response open to Trump is to do something to relieve Johnson of these doubts, but that might not be possible, and Johnson seems clear that she wants nothing to do with Trump. Prompted "Is there anything you'd like to say to the President now?," she says, "Nah, I don't have nothing to say to him."
So maybe it is best for Trump to leave Johnson alone. The anti-Trumpers are not leaving her alone.
At the end of the interview, the other "Good Morning America" host — her name doesn't appear on screen or in the linked article — says in a showbiz-sincere way: "Ugh! It's so powerful! And to have to go through all this while she's grieving her husband! Truly unthinkable, but she's a powerful woman." Well, who's putting her through this? Why does she have to go through it? Who's imposing this on her?
And I'm listening again to that line "I hope you are feeling the thoughts and prayers of everyone." You know, you can trash just about anything anybody says if you want.
I could say it's obviously disingenuous to express that hope, because there is no ability to feel the thoughts and prayers of everyone. It seems to express a belief — which I doubt Stephanopoulos holds — that prayer opens up channels of communication that flow to God and then out to the people who are prayed for. And it's absurd to say that "everyone" is praying for Johnson. It's even offensive, because many people do not believe in prayer.
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395 comments:
1 – 200 of 395 Newer› Newest»It's for the audience and the ratings it gives. Everybody there is a performer, some better than others.
Sincerity is accidental and can't be planned. Most often retrospective.
Trump's plan would be to throw sand in the fiction so it appears as fiction.
It might be hard to find the right sand, is all. PC wins sometimes.
To get at the fiction, you'd have to straighten out two fictions, one of them being widespread and very popular for virtue signalling. It's hard to do two. You lose your audience on the widespread one and can't do the easy one either.
She states Rep Wilson is a long-term friend of the family. God Star Mother is no doubt a strong, liberal Democrat (Black women vote 90% Democrat) and completely unaware that receiving a call from the POTUS is a favor on his part.
Kelly gave Trump the best advice, don't call, just send a letter.
This is a perfect example of "No good deed goes unpunished".
What did the widow add to the conversation not already injected by the Congresswoman?
Don't understand why she said "He wouldn't say his name". Trump had the name right in front of him. Maybe Trump got confused by "La David" and didn't know if "La" was the First name? Or maybe the widow, just got upset that Trump said "he" instead of "La David".
I wonder if she comes from a military family, because she doesn't seem to understand a lot of things.
Suppose somebody has a problem, and you say, I'm really sorry to hear that, I'll send you something that might help.
Are you sincere? It's up in the air.
If a couple of weeks later you remember it and send the something, then you were. If you don't remember it, then you weren't.
Sincerity is a marker in language used in accounts, not a description of a present state.
"What did the widow add to the conversation not already injected by the Congresswoman?"
Hate to be cynical, but going on TV and attacking trump gets a lot of "Paypal" donations.
It's even offensive, because many people do not believe in prayer.
And this is where so many of my fellow atheists gobwildly wrong. One doesn’t have to believe in the efficacy of prayers for the departed — or the living — to believe that there’s nothing harmful in the practice. Whatever thoughts and prayers do for Sergeant Johnson’s widow, they do not and cannot hurt her.
On the other hand, by letting herself be used to score cheap, partisan political points against the president, she deserves nothing but raw contempt. The honor that her husband earned for his choice of profession, for his achievements within that profession, and for his sacrifice are his honor, not automatically hers.
This widow is letting her husband's death be exploited for political purposes by the Democrats. I don't blame her, though, just the Democrats who are taking advantage of her. Shameful.
And to preempt the usual response from the left (and lifelong Republicans): No, the President calling her to express condolences is not an example of the same kind of exploitation.
Why is there practically zero attention paid to the three other families who lost a son, brother, or husband? Why the 24/7 attention to this family? Were their phone calls OK? Acceptable?
I want the hat lady to come right out and spell it out in the clearest possible terms.
Don't believe a Gold star mother has EVER gone public and attacked a POTUS for giving a "bad" condolence phone call. She seems very entitled.
We know Trump, and we have Kelly's word, that he's very supportive of military. Trying to paint him as callous and indifferent doesn't make a lot of sense, since if Trump REALLY didn't care, he wouldn't have called. Its much easier to send a letter.
No one likes to call women and tell them their husband died. We'd all rather send a letter. A phone call is above the call of duty.
"Were their phone calls OK? Acceptable?"
One's already gone public and praised Trump.
Again, another fight where nobody wins. Why do we keep having those?
Why is there practically zero attention paid to the three other families who lost a son, brother, or husband? Why the 24/7 attention to this family?
Because she was used willingly by the media and the rest of the Left to attack Trump. She is the new Cindy Sheehan.
Perhaps Trump was trying to think what drug Ladavid was. Blacks name kids after drugs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue4m_2F8vJc
The "Get Trump" crowd has no shame. They use people like this widow.
"Again, another fight where nobody wins. Why do we keep having those?"
"We" aren't fighting. The Democrat Congresswomen started this by attacking Trump and violating a sacred thing - a condolence call to a widow. Trump defended himself and when the MSM kept the attacks up, he brought Kelly out. This should have ended it, but Wilson called General Kelly a 'racist' and a "liar". Now, she's brought out the Widow to echo her original attack.
So, "We" are not fighting. Its the Democrats attacking trump - using any means necessary.
Blame them.
I got the distinct impression that Professor Althouse's first gut reaction to this controversy was that a name like "La David Johnson" is the sort of name that might throw Trump off. And that in a conversation where Trump's intentions were all the best, Trump might have somehow stumbled on the name.
That, I thought, was Althouse's take. And I agreed.
Now let's recall that Rep. Wilson's report on the conversation was that Mrs. Johnson was upset that Trump "didn't even know" La David's name. Trump, for reasons known only to Trump, claimed that Rep. Wilson "fabricated" that claim. Now, we know that Rep. Wilson did not fabricate anything. Trump may have an issue with Mrs. Johnson -- something that Trump should have been advised to straighten out with Mrs. Johnson directly and quickly -- but Mrs. Johnson essentially has confirmed the report of Rep. Wilson's witnessing of the telephone call. It may well be that Mrs. Johnson is overreacting or mixing things up. But we now know for certain that Rep. Wilson did not get it wrong. Mrs. Johnson is upset in precisely the way that Rep. Wilson described.
Well, who's putting her through this? Why does she have to go through it? Who's imposing this on her?
There's the rub. Lefties know they can run an offensive in difficult territory for Trump to defend. Even with the approval of the widow it's a sickening premise and I think Trump is right not to leave it alone.
"And to have to go through all this while she's grieving her husband!"
She was forced at gunpoint to talk to that politician and then to go on TV?
"This widow is letting her husband's death be exploited for political purposes by the Democrats. I don't blame her, though, just the Democrats who are taking advantage of her. Shameful."
I had Meet The Press on yesterday. Video but no sound because I can't stand the program anymore; it was just on while I was doing other things. I believe they spent half the show on this "news".
Here's an odd question: Why would "they" not allow Mrs. Johnson to view her deceased husband's body? Who are "they," and what legal power do they have over the deceased's next-of-kin and legal heir?
Anybody know?
Attention Blacks: You're not special. You was never kangz. Your grief at the loss of a loved one is not unique to your race. You can't give your children ridiculous, French-fried names and expect everybody to know how to pronounce them. If you don't like Trump's America, you can move to Niger. And furthermore, fuck you.
"you can trash just about anything anybody says if you want." Particularly if you are progs in control of the MSM.
Anyway, progs will fight anytime, with anything, trotting out widows, exploiting solider deaths, whatever--anything goes. It's war. Trump should know it by now. I think he does.
Tim in Vermont, pay attention: here are some hints for the clarity of expression expected chez Althouse. For example, if you say "nobody," you'd better mean nobody--see, since "everyone" doesn't necessarily include "everyone."
"I could say it's obviously disingenuous to express that hope, because there is no ability to feel the thoughts and prayers of everyone. It seems to relay a express belief — which I'm doubt Stephanopoulos holds — that prayer opens up channels of communication that flow to God and then out to the people who are prayed for. And it's absurd to say that "everyone" is praying for Johnson. It's even offensive, because many people do not believe in prayer."
@rcocean. You're probably right. I just don't like being even obliquely appearing to criticize a war widow. Certainly the Democrats have found a very powerful symbol to use to attempt to turn Trump's supporters against him.
Thoughts and/or prayers sounds a little odd.
The different military cultures might have caused Trump's alleged confusion. In the naval services (Kelly is USMC), people are addressed or referred to by their rank and last name, not their first name, unless of the same rank. The Army and Air Farce allow less formality.
What a total piece of distorted and pathetic bullshit this story is. From the utterly phony UserMan, Stephanwhatsisface, to the sadly unwitting wife who doesn't have a clue as to how fortunate she undoubtedly is to see a closed coffin and not know the details(yet) of why her husband was 'missing' for 48 hours.
What the sick Liberal 'Media' is doing with this 'story' is well worth puking on and absolutely nothing else.
Chuck, his body was probably not in good shape. Keeping her from seeing it was an act of mercy.
The President should not concern himself with enlisted troops, unless he's giving them a medal of honor.
Leave them the fuck alone. They can take care of themselves. The officers in their direct chain of command are all that is required.
Everything else is political tiddly-winks, and will burn you. There is no good or bad, it's a third degree burn every time.
On the other hand, by letting herself be used to score cheap, partisan political points against the president, she deserves nothing but raw contempt.
I'm not watching the video. Why would I? She's grieving. She loves her husband and hates Trump. She probably blames him for her husband's death. I have no contempt for her whatsoever. I would give her a hug, say something spiritual, try to keep her spirits up.
The people to hold in contempt are the journalists who think this is a story. It's not.
Why are we even allowing the criticism, except for because it's Trump? It's an odd name. Even if Trump hesitated in trying to use it in conversational English we should not allow the conflation of that with the premise that Trump had no knowledge of the name.
rcocean said...
Hate to be cynical, but going on TV and attacking trump gets a lot of "Paypal" donations.
Don't be. Nothing wrong in being reasonably cynical or skeptical about anything. Americans have largely lost this trait, much to our detriment.
My take on this is Fuck The Left.
Kelly's instincts were right. Sooner or later, you will encounter a Cindy Sheehan wannabe, looking to turn their loved one's death into fame, if not fortune.
I hope you are feeling the thoughts and prayers of everyone."
She isn't feeling my prayers, because I am not praying for HER.
I do hope she is feeling my thoughts though. She isn't going to like them...but feel this!!!
Trump is an oaf. Still he is a good president, maybe we need a queen for this kind of stuff. I have a cardinal rule to not judge the grieving.
Yes -- why is this a story? Why is this being covered non-stop vs., say, Russia giving millions and millions of dollars to Clinton?
Sebastian, if you want to get into some kind of back and forth, say something interesting.
Chuck: Many bodies coming out of combat are essentially un-viewable because all they are is gristle, a few body parts- if that - and offal. Whoever makes the determination that a body should not be viewed is doing so with the survivors in mind. Combat is not what you see on TV. In many instances the body ends as a bloody mist so that nothing is recoverable. In this case I supposed Johnson's body was badly mangled - essentially disassembled by heavy caliber automatic weapons fire. Do you really think that the survivors want to see their loved ones as soup?
The military rule is that servicemen killed on duty are never seen again. They do not reconstruct what might be horrible wounds and disfigurations so no bodies are ever exposed.
The Media is the scum of the earth, the lowest of the low and the only upside of a Resistance-inspired socialist revolution (or it's inverse, a MAGA-inspired nationalist revolution) will be that we get to witness a bunch of newstalkers get murdered.
I'm baaaaarely kidding.
And fuck the Left, as usual. They've decided that the cares of families who lost servicemembers matter again. They've decided that some people who lost loved ones once again have "absolute moral authority!"
I'm so old I can remember way back to the campaign of 2016 when family members of some of the guys who died in Benghazi gave a report of their conversation with SecState Clinton that differed from Clinton's on report of that conversation...and I sure don't remember the Media making a big deal out of that. In fact Clinton all but called those people liars and the Media, as I remember it, basically took her word for it!
Hey, related question: are George Stepy-peppy's thoughts and prayers with the families of the 3 other guys who died in that attack? Were his thoughts and prayers with the families of the two and half thousand servicemembers who died during the Obama Administration? How many of those families did George have on his fucking show?
The name LaDavid is a made up name like most of the black names. It is a stupid name and Trump probably was not sure if it was a male or female. This is a smoke screen by the MSM to cover the Clinton/Obama uranium story they want no one to know about. And whatever happened to the Las Vegas shooting story? We still know nothing about him and his motives. That sure was moved off the front page in a hurry. It was the largest mass shooting in US history and now it's a non-story? Interesting.
Trump is an oaf.
An oaf like a fox!
She probably blames him for her husband's death.
Because no one has explained to her that her beloved Obama was the one who sent troops into Niger. Though no doubt she would blame Trump anyway.
Tim, I was kidding! (I guess I have to be more clear in making fun of Althousian tendencies.)
Donald Trump lowered civic discourse greatly over the last two years. So you don’t now get to turn around and whine that people are saying mean things about him.
Every Democrat and Republican who have interacted, or even crossed swords, with Senator John McCain, have acknowledged his special service to our country. But Trump said about Senator McCain that he likes his heroes not getting captured. Trump never apologized nor took that offensive statement back.
Trump’s Achilles heel is that he is a big baby whiner when others attack him. It is the weakness of all bullies. And at some point everyone notices it and becomes annoyed by it.
As someone who has trouble remembering people's names, I have sympathy for Trump here. I can remember the person just fine, I just don't have instant recall of a persons name. I keep a little notebook, but it would look worse if Trump read from his notes in this situation.
Chuck, 10/23/17, 10:13 AM, what the heck are you trying to say?
If we have fake news, can we also have fake scandals?
I find Trump wearisome, but I do not doubt that he is sincere when he calls parents whose children have died.
You hear what you want to hear, and you can be made to have heard what you are told you heard.
The one thing that is sure is that ABC and Stephanopoulos are beyond shame.
The Marine's widow can say or do whatever she wants--I very much doubt many people will criticize her for feeling anger, hatred, or really anything towards anyone in the government or military, etc. If she's pissed at Trump I don't have a problem with that nor do I have a problem with her expressing that.
My problem is with 1.) the fucktard cowboy hat Representative who ran her stupid mouth about an intensely private matter (a wife's grief & a private call) and 2.) the Media that's all too happy to put a microphone in front of the grieving widow now in service of some larger point and 3.) the Trump administration not immediately recognizing that the Media and this slime of a Representative have no shame and should not be responded to as though they were human beings.
The one thing that is sure is that ABC and Stephanopoulos are beyond shame.
Yes. Talk about your lowering of civic discourse...
Now I Know! said...
Trump’s Achilles heel is that he is a big baby whiner when others attack him. It is the weakness of all bullies.
10/23/17, 10:35 AM
Shut up! he explained..and how dare you defend yourself while we try to kill you.
Now I Know! said...
"Donald Trump lowered civic discourse greatly over the last two years. So you don’t now get to turn around and whine that people are saying mean things about him."
The discourse has been lowered to the level of "the Republicans are racist bigots and they want to kill women and children and blacks and poor people, and they are racist bigots." Donald Trump didn't lower it, but he is responding in kind. So there's that.
gg6 said...
What a total piece of distorted and pathetic bullshit this story is. From the utterly phony UserMan, Stephanwhatsisface, to the sadly unwitting wife who doesn't have a clue as to how fortunate she undoubtedly is to see a closed coffin and not know the details(yet) of why her husband was 'missing' for 48 hours.
What the sick Liberal 'Media' is doing with this 'story' is well worth puking on and absolutely nothing else.
10/23/17, 10:19 AM
Ralph L said...
Chuck, his body was probably not in good shape. Keeping her from seeing it was an act of mercy.
10/23/17, 10:20 AM
Unknown said...
Chuck, 10/23/17, 10:13 AM, what the heck are you trying to say?
10/23/17, 10:36 AM
What Chuck is trying to say is, that he thinks and hopes that the body has been horribly mutilated, ideally, that Sergeant Johnson was captured and tormented and slaughtered and butchered.
Chuck wishes this may be thrust in everyone's face, especially the Widow's, because somehow or other it will trickle down, however slightly, to hurting President Trump.
That's all he is. That's all he does.
For the record: I have told my family that if I'm killed in some accident they are free to sue the responsible party and collect as much money for themselves (or their preferred charity) as they like but they are under no circumstances to push for a law or regulation or safety device to be named after me.
My threat is that if there's a "HoodlumDoodlum's Law" passed I will haunt them without mercy.
I am not in the military but I would expect something similar from my family: I would instruct them to honor my memory by holding the responsible party responsible but not letting my death be used for some other purpose.
That's my code, but I don't blame others who feel differently.
It’s Time To Have A National Dialogue About Race Cars
How'd the President do on this one?
It's a tough call.
When faced with three unreliable witnesses, who do you believe?
Sorry I don't believe the grandstanding "I'm a rock star!" congresscritter that started this fight. To believe her account is to assume Trump called in some perfunctory way and needlessly insulted the widow by not "even knowing" the dead man's name.
That leaves the widow and the President. She claims the congresscritter is "100% correct." BZZZZT! Wrong answer!
I don't believe Trump would call without the pertinent facts in front of him. Kelly wouldn't allow that. So I expect he did at least try to pronounce La David correctly. Strange as it may seem to LLRs around here, and the odious mainstream media, Trump's account appears on it's face more likely. That it could have been badly received and involved some name-stumbling is highly likely. But I don't assign ill motives to a CiC who goes out of his way to make personal contact with a Gold Star family and thank them for their sacrifice.
This whole news cycle is driven by people who DO assign ill motives to that act of kindness and that is how political discourse is further eroded. They are further trying to use the Cindy Sheehan playbook against Trump, who is not like Bush, and who will not allow the media to lie about his motives or methods.
The media doesn't want to talk about Uranium One so they're talking about this.
"La" is added to confuse the gender.
Now I Know! said...Donald Trump lowered civic discourse greatly over the last two years. So you don’t now get to turn around and whine that people are saying mean things about him.>
The Dem. Vice President told a crowd of mostly black Americans that Republicans were "going to put ya'll back in chains" in 2012.
But yeah...civic discourse was doin' just fine until that nasty Trump showed up.
UraniumGate is an enormous story that brings down the entire Establishment that was covering it up for years now. So LaDavid'd tragic ambush death will be the only story for month's to come.
And to have to go through all this while she's grieving her husband! Truly unthinkable, but she's a powerful woman."
She chose this when she invited an anti-Trump Rep to sit in on the call. If this wasn't her specific intent that Rep is the responsible party. It's sad she used her husband's death to make a political statement but that's her choice. Our response should be to acknowledge people make bad decisions in grief and ignore her from this point.
Mike said...
...
I don't believe Trump would call without the pertinent facts in front of him. Kelly wouldn't allow that. So I expect he did at least try to pronounce La David correctly. Strange as it may seem to LLRs around here, and the odious mainstream media, Trump's account appears on it's face more likely. That it could have been badly received and involved some name-stumbling is highly likely. But I don't assign ill motives to a CiC who goes out of his way to make personal contact with a Gold Star family and thank them for their sacrifice.
What is wrong with you? That is pretty much exactly what I wrote just above, and what I have been writing in these comments pages for days.
I think Trump's standard pathologies only evidenced themselves after the call. (Like you, I think that "some name-stumbling [was] highly likely." I'm not counting that as one of Trump's standard pathologies.)
It is beyond dispute that Trump has vastly lowered how our politics is conducted in this country. Even many Republican officeholders have publically lamented this fact.
The fact that Ann and her conservative commenters can not acknowledge this fact, just demonstrates they are not conversing in good faith.
It is beyond dispute that Trump has vastly lowered how our politics is conducted in this country
I dispute this.
Johnson was an Army Sergeant not a Marine. He was assigned to 3rd Special Forces Group (Airborne) on Fort Bragg, N.C. Not a critical point, but I am sure it was important to Johnson.
Personally, I don't like the fact that special forces are driving 125 miles to talk to warlords. It a stupid tactic.
The reason they do it, is the Army has no helicopters to give them. The troops in Africa are basically there to train the National troops.
But as is often the case, the National troops are weak and corrupt. The warlords run the show outside of the capital.
Special forces wandering around in the desert picking their ass, are going to have a bad day.
The widow clearly hasn’t gotten herself entirely out of the denial stage of her grief. Those commenters here who are criticizing her need to cut her some slack; take a deep breath and count to 10 (if that doesn’t work, count to 100). Right now Mrs. Johnson is under the undue influence of Congresswoman Cowboyhat, who is using the widow to fuel her re-election campaign. That’s despicable. George Stephanopolous (sp?) is also despicable for using Mrs. Johnson as a tool in his project to undermine Trump.
'Meade, who was listening and not watching, said: "He sounds like he's speaking to a child."'
Too often the mainstream media nowadays treat African Americans as if they were children. As if they are not morally responsible for their actions. During the riots in Ferguson and Baltimore for instance. Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations.
The Uranium One story is probably the motive for this sustained attack on Trump by all the usual suspects.
buwaya says there is a central ministry of propaganda at work and I am starting to wonder.
I was going to ask Chuck how many bodies he has seen who have been put on the open for a few days, which I understand was the case.
Others answered him well.
In both "gold star families" cases, it was they who attacked Trump first. The lawyer Khan at the D convention and this women through the Howdy Doody Congresswoman.
rehajm said...
It is beyond dispute that Trump has vastly lowered how our politics is conducted in this country
I dispute this.
10/23/17, 10:56 AM
-----
I do as well. Trump simply decided to play with one rule book, not two.
Ralph L said...
Chuck, his body was probably not in good shape. Keeping her from seeing it was an act of mercy.
I don't doubt that. I don't doubt any of that. My question was just a legal, process question. If the woman wanted to see her husband's body, why could she not do that? If she wanted a private funeral direction, or a cremation, or a burial in her hometown, or to do anything else, what is the legal authority to prevent her from doing that?
As usual, the knee-jerk reaction on the Althouse comments pages is to attack me, in the name of Trump, or to presume that I am attacking Trump.
In fact, I am doing the opposite here. I presume that the woman DID have a legal right to view her husband's body and that she is probably getting that part of her story wrong.
All of you Trumpkins, so eager to undercut this widow (because she is now locked into opposition with Trump) missed that part.
10/23/17, 10:20 AM
As far as Trump lowering the tone of "political discourse": my feeling is that in his crude way he has exposed how much bullshit there is in "political discourse". Does anyone really think that Mrs. Johnson's role isn't being scripted by someone in the Democratic party?
Talk about lowering standards: "Hey, let's find a susceptible widow of a serviceman and take advantage of her." "Is that really appropriate?" "Well, no but Trump!"
Every Democrat and Republican who have interacted, or even crossed swords, with Senator John McCain, have acknowledged his special service to our country.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! That's even funnier than mad-cow Maddow's take!
Here are two thoughts that a lot of people have but which cannot be spoken aloud by anyone in public life: LaDavid is a stupid name to give a boy and sequined cowboy hats make the wearer look ridiculous.
John Podhoretz, twitter today, "What should have been on a big card right next to the phone as he was talking. Would have been in any other White House. LA DAVID JOHNSON."
Why does he think that isn't exactly, or essentially, the way it happened? Because a lunatic congressbitch and some black woman we never heard of before can't lie to defame Trump?
Anyway, I really don't care if Trump had trouble pronouncing a French-African-American-Hebrew-Transgender name.
In fact, I am doing the opposite here. I presume that the woman DID have a legal right to view her husband's body and that she is probably getting that part of her story wrong.
Yes, I would also assume she had a right to see the body, but, she did not understand that, or it was not communicated to her. She's young, 6 months pregnant, and has lost her husband, who was a childhood sweetheart. She is probably barely making it through an emotional and cognitive storm. If the military care officer told her she couldn't see the body, she might have taken that as a legal inability to do so.
They should show her the body. She's not sure it's her husband. If Emmett Till's mother needed to see her son after he'd been beaten to death and thrown in a river. She needs to know what happened to her husband, to get an idea of what he went through before he died. He was missing for 2 days. You know what she's thinking.
McCain did one semi-heroic act. His refusal to be used by the North Vietnamese as a propaganda device to shame his father, who was CinCPAC, and the US military which has rules about repatriation.
Had he accepted the offer, he would have been subject to disciplinary action, probably deferred since he was in bad shape.
Others refused to cooperate and died.
He was tortured but all of them were.
His Navy service was OK although he was a fuckup at Annapolis and in service when he crashed a plane flying with a hangover.
His cooperation with Traitor Kerry in restoring relations with NVN and shutting down the MIA program is less than honorable.
We almost certainly left MIAs behind, just as we did in Korea where some were transferred to the Soviet Union.
LaDavid is a stupid...
Not to pick on William but LaDavid is wrong. It's La David. See how challenging this is?
"She needs to know what happened to her husband, to get an idea of what he went through before he died. He was missing for 2 days."
I would not be surprised if he was unrecognizable. In fact, I would be surprised if he was.
The President expressed his admiration for Sgt. Johnson; Congresswoman Wilson thought of him as a sucker misled into "acting white."
Chuck said...
Now, we know that Rep. Wilson did not fabricate anything... But we now know for certain that Rep. Wilson did not get it wrong.
This is what the LLR wrote above at 10:13 a.m.
I say this report is hooey and Trump's account is likely closer to the truth. So the LLR then writes:
Chuck said...Mike said...
I don't believe Trump would call without the pertinent facts in front of him. Kelly wouldn't allow that. So I expect he did at least try to pronounce La David correctly.
What is wrong with you? That is pretty much exactly what I wrote just above, and what I have been writing in these comments pages for days.
So I leave it to people with reading comprehension to determine if what I wrote is consistent with LLR's take that the asshat Wilson is "100% correct." I'm not seeing it.
Sebastian, your first comment reminded me of two jokes.
"Nobody goes there anymore, too crowded."
And one where the punch line is "I haven't been laid in years, and still they call me 'The Fucking Jew!'c
Chuck said...All of you Trumpkins, so eager to undercut this widow (because she is now locked into opposition with Trump) missed that part.
Boom! That didn't take long. "Disagreement is undercutting a war widow." Thanks, George Steph...I mean Chuck.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is a Trumpkin and Trumpkins are stupid, crude, irrational people. Outgroup people!"
"You outgroup people are awful and are automatically guilty of anything any other outgroup person does or says...you're all despicable and there's no point even engaging with you in anything approaching good faith."
"Hey, why can't we have a civil discussion around here anymore? Why do you people here always attack everything I say and insult me? You guys are jerks:non-jerks would just have a nice conversation or debate but you people aren't capable of it."
Wash, rinse, repeat. Transparent!
It is beyond dispute that Trump has vastly lowered how our politics is conducted in this country.
True. He has climbed down into the sewers with the Media and the rest of the Left.
Most of us see this as a necessary evil...
“So maybe it is best for Trump to leave Johnson alone. The anti-Trumpers are not leaving her alone.”
Anti Trumpers should not leave her alone. She needs our support. Trump and his sycophants are becoming more deplorable as time goes on, not less. Trump isn’t the victim, he never was, he has always been the perpetrator. You people voted for a support this despicable man.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is a Trumpkin and Trumpkins are stupid, crude, irrational people. Outgroup people!"
One might call them Deplorables.
Benghazi.
I would not be surprised if he was unrecognizable. In fact, I would be surprised if he was.
So was Emmett Till. His mother still needed to see him. She needs to know what they did to him, before or after death.
His mother still needed to see him. She needs to know what they did to him, before or after death.
If they had shown her, and she reacted badly, or insisted that it wasn't his body or something similar, the media and the rest of the Left would be attacking Trump today for allowing her to see the body.
Patricia Smith.
"They won’t show me a finger, a hand; I know my husband’s body from head-to-toe and they won’t let me see anything." She sounds troubled by doubt: "I need to see him so I will know that that is my husband."
Who are THEY that she is blaming? Is this somehow also Trump's fault?
I understand the need for closure in this very sad personal grieving experience. However, there are procedures that the military probably needs to follow. She needs to understand this as well......... And as many have said, the remains are probably not something that are going to be pleasant to look at.
Give her what she wants. Let her view the remains of her husband's body. Just don't let that Wilson rodeo clown woman be there to further stir up shit.
Now I Know! said...
It is beyond dispute that Trump has vastly lowered how our politics is conducted in this country. Even many Republican officeholders have publically lamented this fact.
Classic concern trolling here. The "Republicans" you reference here are establishment people who wish to keep Trump out of their little club, and who historically are well known for not EVER fighting Democrats with the same vehemence that Team Left fights. People above have cited "put ya'll in chains" and other hideous things Democrats routinely say, like that Republicans want to poison the air and water and push "granny over the cliff," "starve children in schools," drag black people by chains behind trucks, use the word "taxes" as code for NAZI tactics. I'm sure I've missed a few thousand. They do this all the time. Trump is the one and only Republican who fights them the same way. Sure he turns his fire on establishment swamp creatures too, but so what? I guess saying he is "unhinged" is supposed to be commentary in NIK's world instead of low discourse.
So after 30 years of observation, over which time the Democrats have done all these and more ("magic underwear?" "binders full of women?") I don't give even the hint of a damn about Trump taking it to these hypocritical bastards.
If they had shown her, and she reacted badly, or insisted that it wasn't his body or something similar, the media and the rest of the Left would be attacking Trump today for allowing her to see the body.
My concern is for the soldier's family. I am less concerned with what the media and the "Left" (sounds monolithic) would say if the widow was permitted, after asking, to see her husband's body.
They key conflation is between "Wilson did not fabricate anything" and "Wilson did not get anything wrong."
Wilson's take on Trump's performance (which could in fact also be the widow's take) could very easily "get wrong" quite a lot, from Trump & Kelly's perspective even if Wilson did not make up what was actually said. The "fabrication" in that case would be Wilson's (biased and/or motivated) interpretation.
It's very easy to imagine that scenario wherein both Wilson and Trump are essentially correct. It's not even a tough thing to believe happened, in a weak Rashamon-type way.
Our own LifeLongRepublican wants to say that's what he argued (when he said his interpretation was that Trump likely stumbled over the soldier's first name). But he almost immediately has it both ways (surprise!) saying that Trump's assertion that Wilson "fabricated" anything--namely the "fact" that Trump didn't know the solider's name--was disproven by what we now know.
Instead of just saying "whether Trump knew the guy's first name or not is a matter of opinion and so both Trump and Wilson can simultaneously be correct the LLR simply MUST say that Wilson is right and Trump is wrong, definitively.
Almost makes you think that motivated reasoning might not just be limited to politicians, huh?
She's entitled to her grief and anger and even her prejudices. We all have prejudices. Still, I think it would be best for everybody, i.e. the media and President Trump, to let this story go. George looked manipulative, and the comments that the widow made diminished my sympathy for her. Nobody looks good in this story, but the media look especially awful. They should drop it.
President Bone Spurs will go down in history as the most despised president in the history of the US. We need more McCains in Congress. True patriots, not pretenders.
anti-de Sitter space said...
Benghazi.
Worse than.
Mike, you have done this before. I don't know what is wrong with your reading.
Look, I will try to make it easy for you because you seem to need it.
I think that Trump called the widow with the best of intentions. But that it is likely, because it impacted the widow very obviously, Trump "stumbled" (your word) on Sgt. La David Johnson's name.
I think we agree on all of that. Do you not understand that?
And when the widow completed her call with Trump, she very likely said, "He didn't even know La David's name!" And when Rep. Wilson later reported to the press that "She said the president didn't even know her husband's name," she was reporting accurately. We know it is an accurate account from Mrs. Johnson; she confirmed it today. Rep. Wilson did not "fabricate" anything, as Trump claimed.
Is this so hard?
Clintonopolis.
I worked for years in hospitals. When in the ER had to be present when the docs gave the sad news. None of them were easy, even after 15 years. The responses from the relatives was always emotional and sometimes immediate anger. Hard for us, not to get defensive, but let the emotions flow. Frequently thought of the saying "Killing the messenger". Trump may not have been the one to give the news, but the emotions on both sides were still there.
"You people voted for a support this despicable man."
Great choice you guys offered! Been following the Russia story?
The Uranium One story is probably the motive for this sustained attack on Trump by all the usual suspects.
Indeed. This woman is being used by the left.
How is it worse than Benghazi?
Do explain. The war in Niger was started by Obama.
Stephanopoulos was, along with David Wilhelm and James Carville, a leading member of Clinton's 1992 U.S. presidential campaign. His role on the campaign is portrayed in the documentary film The War Room (1993).
At the outset of Clinton's presidency, Stephanopoulos served as the de facto press secretary, briefing the press even though Dee Dee Myers was officially the White House Press Secretary.[12]
He was later senior advisor for policy and strategy, before departing in December 1996.[5]
Stephanopoulos donated $25,000 in 2012, 2013, and 2014, a total of $75,000, to the Clinton Foundation, but did not disclose the donations to ABC News, his employer, or to his viewers.[30] Stephanopoulos failed to reveal the donations even on April 26, 2015, while interviewing Peter Schweizer, the author of Clinton Cash, a book which alleges that donations to the Foundation influenced some of Hillary Clinton's actions as Secretary of State.[30] After exposure of the donations by Politico on May 14, 2015, Stephanopoulos apologized and admitted he should have disclosed the donations to ABC News and its viewers.[30][31]
from Wikipedia
"We know it is an accurate account from Mrs. Johnson..."
You assume it is an accurate account, Chuck -- you don't know shit.
Instead of just saying "whether Trump knew the guy's first name or not is a matter of opinion and so both Trump and Wilson can simultaneously be correct the LLR simply MUST say that Wilson is right and Trump is wrong, definitively.
Almost makes you think that motivated reasoning might not just be limited to politicians, huh?
Oh I love that construction so much.
When civilized adults have a misunderstanding, they can talk it out.
Trump can't talk it out. He's a snarling, feral, attack machine. He had to go on attack. That's okay for a personality like the late Don Rickles or some other Catskill nightclub comic. (The best comparisons, for Trump, I'd argue.) But not for a President.
“The war in Niger was started by Obama.”
The ambush of these four killed servicemembers happened on President Bone Spurs watch. The buck stops there. I notice this time he didn’t blame his Generals like he did in the botched raid in Yemen.
wwww said....So was Emmett Till. His mother still needed to see him. She needs to know what they did to him, before or after death.
No offense intended but that's a bad comparison.
Emmett Till's family chose to display his body for OTHERS to see so that the cruelty of his murder would be something the nation at large could not ignore. They permitted or encouraged pictures of his badly damaged body for the express purpose of publicizing his suffering (to be taken as an example of the kind of brutality other blacks routinely faced).
Unless you're suggesting that the widow in this case wishes to see the body of her husband in order to publicize the condition of his physical remains/to make public the details of his suffering in order to help make some larger political point it doesn't seem at all like an apt comparison.
Just to be clear, I'll point this out: our Media routinely decides to not publicize the gory details of all sorts of crimes so when they do choose to make those details public we should all understand the likely agenda behind their doing so. Possibly it is simply to be as lurid as possible (for interest/ratings, etc) but I'm cynical enough to believe there are ulterior motives in many cases.
The collective left = bad faith.
The Collective left = Excuse full on corruption all while you vilify the frosting.
Blogger Char Char Binks said...
John Podhoretz, twitter today, "What should have been on a big card right next to the phone as he was talking. Would have been in any other White House. LA DAVID JOHNSON."
=======================
Trump was probably confused not sure if the name was Louisiana David Johnson or Los Angeles David Johnson.
And when Rep. Wilson later reported to the press that "She said the president didn't even know her husband's name," she was reporting accurately. We know it is an accurate account from Mrs. Johnson; she confirmed it today. Rep. Wilson did not "fabricate" anything, as Trump claimed.
Not to new readers:
Chuckles is not defending a Democrat here. As a lifelong member of the Republican Establishment he of course would never do that.
Expressing empathy for the dearly departed is a hard problem. Expressing empathy for the dearly departed under your command is a wicked problem.
As for the mainstream press, they are conventionally partisan.
Fabi what we know beyond any doubt that Mrs. Johnson felt like the President didn't know her husband's name. Because she said so, today.
And when Rep. Wilson said that Mrs. Johnson felt like the President didn't know her name, we know that was correct.
You can argue -- and I confess to NOT knowing -- what sort of stumble that the President made with the name. Maybe he knew "Sergeant Johnson" very well. And maybe the President stumbled on "La David" or something else. I don't know.
But the President Tweeted that Rep. Wilson's version of the call was a "complete fabrication." And we know it wasn't.
When civilized adults have a misunderstanding, they can talk it out.
Tell that to every Republican politician over the last fifty years. The media and the rest of the Left have been lying, distorting and ignoring what Republicans and conservatives have said for at least that long. One of the reason you guys hate Trump so much is that he refuses to play your game and goes around you on Twitter.
Yes Chuck you still don't get it. Wilson is claiming racism and the fact that Trump "deliberately disrespected" the widow in the call. I dispute this on lack of evidence and unreliable witnesses. When you accept that the widow says the congresscritter with the ridiculous hat is "100% correct" then you accept ALL of that idiot's assertions, such as Trump's motives are driven by "white supremacy."
I do not. I appreciate you are giving Trump the benefit of the doubt. But I can't swallow the story the execrable Wilson is peddling.
Simple. See?
I have an unusual name. If I counted on one hand the number of times someone pronounced it correctly the first time without coaching I'd have a few fingers and a thumb left over. You learn to appreciate the challenge and cut people some slack.
Benghazi was a cover-up. It was a planned terror attack and the cover-up landed an innocent film maker in jail.
"It was the video" was a lie. A lie that hack democrat press pushed on behalf of their corrupt party.
But the President Tweeted that Rep. Wilson's version of the call was a "complete fabrication." And we know it wasn't.
Because we know for sure that the widow is not lying to score political points and protect a Democrat politician. Such a thing is unthinkable and has definitely Cindy Sheehan never happened before.
When civilized adults have a misunderstanding, they can talk it out.
Yeah, I've been thinking about the White House and what's going on in a lot of these instances. Whether the "story" is crowd size, Puerto Rico, phone taps, dead soldiers, or the NFL -- Trump escalates. He is either not able or not willing to deescalate misunderstandings or verbal conflicts. His go to response is escalation. There's no ability to smooth out a misunderstanding if neither of the parties is able or willing to deescalate and talk it out.
My biggest fear for this presidency is the tail risk of a catastrophic conflict (nuclear) that arises out of a verbal misunderstanding or unwillingness to deescalate. I hope it's an act for the base to keep people riled up. My worry is that it is not an act but an inability to verbally manipulate situations in a way that calms things down.
This is battlespace preparation. A single ambush where 4 soldiers died is going to be used and dragged out into a political battle. If this gains enough traction in the media, they will keep it going.
C'mon...isn't it obvious that Trump took time out of his busy day to call this women so he could deliberately insult her and her husband's sacrifice?
Johnson lost his life while on a mission to #BringBackOurGirls.
I wonder how many anti-war activists there are on a battlefield.
Trump can't talk it out. He's a snarling, feral, attack machine.
It's a soundbite driven world now, Bitches! He uses the media. Dig it.
Chuck said...And when the widow completed her call with Trump, she very likely said, "He didn't even know La David's name!" And when Rep. Wilson later reported to the press that "She said the president didn't even know her husband's name," she was reporting accurately. We know it is an accurate account from Mrs. Johnson; she confirmed it today. Rep. Wilson did not "fabricate" anything, as Trump claimed.
Let's have fun with paraphrases you disingenuous LifeLongRepublican.
Here's a quote from Wilson: "And he never said his name because he did not know his name." That's a quote, Chuck, from Wilson. Do you think it's true that Trump NEVER said his name? I don't think that's true, Chuck. I think you're probably right that Trump probably stumbled over the man's full name in attempting to say it and then relied on the short hand "your guy" instead of trying to say the full name again.
But do you think it's true that he "never" said the man's full name during the call? Even if you THINK that's true, can you honestly assert that it's been PROVEN that Trump never said the man's full name?
See, if I'm Trump and I hear Wilson assert "Trump never said his name because Trump didn't know his name" and I know 1.) I said his name 2.) I knew his name because it was on a piece of paper sitting in front of me while I was on the phone then I might just say "that lying bitch Wilson made that up!" Now the "that" in my sentence would be imprecise, Chuck, as language often is. But you seem to be arguing that Trump has no basis for saying anything Wilson said was fabricated/made up...and as I've just shown a fairly neutral reading of the situation could easily support Trump's assertion.
NYTimes: Rep Wilson on Trump" 'That is not what you say to a grieving widow'
Whether the "story" is crowd size, Puerto Rico, phone taps, dead soldiers, or the NFL -- Trump escalates.
"Escalates" meaning of course that he defends himself from Leftwing attacks in the media.
He is either not able or not willing to deescalate misunderstandings or verbal conflicts
Meaning he is unwilling to roll over and take the abuse like Republicans are supposed to.
There's no ability to smooth out a misunderstanding if neither of the parties is able or willing to deescalate and talk it out.
Sounds to me like he's taking someone's advice to "punch back twice as hard."
Perhaps it was related to our mission in Somalia to #ReplaceOurUranium.
Or the social justice adventures that opened abortion fields, forced CAIR, and Obama's 21st century trail of tears, which persists as a progressive condition.
"No offense intended but that's a bad comparison.
Emmett Till's family chose to display his body for OTHERS to see so that the cruelty of his murder would be something the nation at large could not ignore."
Yes, I agree and I wasn't taking the comparison to that place. I meant that when Till's mother received his body, she knew the condition of the body. She had the choice to not look, and cremate the body. But she wanted to look, despite the fact it would cause to pain to see what they had done to him.
Many people, in dealing with grief, need to know what happened to their loved one. For many, it's important to know how the loved one dies and what happened to the body. The soldier was missing for 2 days. She wants to know what happened to him. Have you ever had anyone close to you die? In early grief, it becomes very important to know how they died. It's important to know what happened to the body. It's not enough to know that they are dead.
If the call in question was similar to the call we heard the other day, Trump was speaking entirely ad lib. Would this woman have felt better about the call had he read it, name included, from a pre-approved script?
Gahrie said...
C'mon...isn't it obvious that Trump took time out of his busy day to call this women so he could deliberately insult her and her husband's sacrifice?
Ann Althouse never thought that was the case; and I have said more than once, I agree with that. If you had read me above, on this very page, you'd know that I don't make that argument. That straw man argument is a non-starter with me.
Unknown said...
“The war in Niger was started by Obama.”
The ambush of these four killed servicemembers happened on President Bone Spurs watch. The buck stops there. I notice this time he didn’t blame his Generals like he did in the botched raid in Yemen.
OK. So when someone in the current admin comes out and lies about why they are there on every Sunday show, refuses to send back-up, claims it "was just some jihadis out for a walk," heaps blame on some video know one ever saw and arrests the maker as a show trial, lies to the face of the families as to the cause of their deaths, stonewalls every avenue of investigation, and is aided by a complicit press who never ever asked Obama or Clinton to justify their lies; then and only then would I consider your asinine assertion that this is "Trump's Benghazi."
After all, the media-DNC complex's take all along has been that Benghazi was NOT even a "thing" to begin with. How can it be one now?
(Ambassador Wilson could not be reached for comment. By the way, why was he in that town on 9/11?)
Eh, forget it. I don't care. You've made me not care, Media. Congrats.
The fact that in Chuck's own sequence of events (well-intentioned call, offense taken by listeners, Rep Wilson talking to Media and criticizing Trump's call to Media) he can't see that Wilson herself is to blame for making this a story...fuck it.
Maybe the NYT's is an internal quote for the full paragraph and maybe it's not. Maybe both Wilson and the widow are lying or maybe Trump and Kelly are both lying. I officially don't give a shit.
Way to go, guys. You've assured that the President won't make any such calls in the future and things will be as official and formal as possible from the White House in any similar situation. A real proud accomplishment, I bet. Oh--you got to take some shots at idiotic HiltlerDumpf, too, so that's a big win.
mockturtle said...
If the call in question was similar to the call we heard the other day, Trump was speaking entirely ad lib. Would this woman have felt better about the call had he read it, name included, from a pre-approved script?
Personally, I wish that the Trump-Johnson call had been recorded like that one you are speaking of was. I am still not so sure that it wasn't recorded by the White House/NSA. The White House claims that it wasn't. But Trump said he had "proof" of the content of the call. So I am unsure of what to believe. If Trump bungled the name, I'd like to hear that now.
Not because it is important, but rather because Trump has made such a big deal out of it. (And he could not let go of the provocation from Rep. Wilson.)
Just imagine if everything was the same, except the President was Obozo Hussein and the soldier was poor white trash from Alabama named Cletus Spunkler. "You people" would be shitting yourself silly about how BHO hates America, hates the military, hates you, hates your ancestors, hate, hate, hate.
It's just a sad story that politicians and the media are making points on without regard for the lost soldier and his family that was left behind.
It's just a sad story that politicians and the media are making points on without regard for the lost soldier and his family that was left behind.
Cindy Sheehan could not be reached for comment......
"Meaning he is unwilling to roll over and take the abuse like Republicans are supposed to.
There's no ability to smooth out a misunderstanding if neither of the parties is able or willing to deescalate and talk it out.
Sounds to me like he's taking someone's advice to "punch back twice as hard."
Yes, this verbal "punching" of domestic "enemies" (it's always domestic, like NFL players) appears to be the main concern and joy of many of his most ardent followers. I am not speaking of the people who voted for Trump reluctantly, because they could not tolerate voting for HRC. I do not understand why the largest concerns aren't legislative, judicial, or foreign policy. However, I am trying to understand this attraction. Quite frankly, I am baffled that these battles over the NFL or with a widow seem so critical to people. I'm shocked that people allow themselves to get emotionally invested in these fights. The NFL protests were happening for over a year, and all of a sudden it became a "thing." People are bashing a young, 6 month-pregnant widow. From my point of view, these verbal escalations are not necessary, due to staff incompetence (or presidential preference) and, quite frankly, are a waste of the time for the Head of State.
I wonder -- and this is a serious question -- is it entertainment, and is that why "punching back" so hard against NFL players or a widow is met with such approval? Is it like a video game, where people get out their aggression and stress? Is it an emotional gratification/ stress relief thing -- like a first person video game shooter? Or do you honestly think these escalations are going to change the politics, culture, or society in some positive way?
There's no ability to smooth out a misunderstanding if neither of the parties is able or willing to deescalate and talk it out.
"Both parties" include Democrats that are conducting a scorched earth campaign including claims of impeachment and the usual left wing novels about assassination.
Bush was a gentleman and was savaged, He lost Congress in 2006 and the Democrats put the pedal to the metal on CRA and the housing bubble collapsed two years later. Bush, of course, was blamed and took the blame.
The result was Obama and the decimation of our military and 10 trillion dollars more debt.
I'm not sure the country can survive this.
Does anyone think the current Democrat Party can fix this ?
Like Hoodlum says, the main difference of opinion we have with LLR is that we see this story generated from the assertions the congresscritter made. That was the genesis. It was a private call. Unpublicized until she made it an issue with her slanders against Trump.
Chuck likes slander against Trump.
But I see the sequined skank as the one who MADE this a political issue by claiming that the call -- an act of kindness by the CiC -- was a white supremacyu-0driven insult to the widow. This is odious. And a fair media would be pillorying this woman. Unfortunately they and she are on "the same team."
If we want to be precise we should note that George W Bush created AFRICOM and committed a limited number of troops to the region. President Obama committed additional troops and the mission there changed a bit (more interdiction and anti-terrorism training, etc) especially once the region experienced a massive influx of Libyan-trained/equipped fighters.
If we're going to say "troop deaths that occur under a President's term are to be blamed on that President" now then I'm going to insist that rule is applied retroactively to the last President's term ('cause back then I remember hearing that those deaths were GWBush's fault since he "got us in" to those conflicts).
"Trump was speaking entirely ad lib. Would this woman have felt better about the call had he read it, name included, from a pre-approved script?"
If I were the staff, I would have strongly urged an approved script. I do think the woman would have felt better. I do think the phone call was a misunderstanding, the widow is acting out of grief, and Trump was trying to be nice on the call. He's not particularly good at being (or pretending to be) empathetic. He's not an eloquent man. Josh Barro wrote the other day that Trump's rambling, circular style of speaking is particularly vulnerable to misunderstandings. Think of all of the times he has implied something that needed to be explained or clarified.
Howard said...
Just imagine if everything was the same, except the President was Obozo Hussein and the soldier was poor white trash from Alabama named Cletus Spunkler. "You people" would be shitting yourself silly about how BHO hates America, hates the military, hates you, hates your ancestors, hate, hate, hate.
It's just a sad story that politicians and the media are making points on without regard for the lost soldier and his family that was left behind.
Counter point: during the last Presidential election some of "we people" actually tried to make an issue of the then-SecState's alleged lying to Gold Star families (of men killed in Benghazi) and Clinton's assertion that those family members were basically lying about what Clinton said at the time.
"We people" didn't get too far with that line of attack because the shit sucking Media like ol' Georgie Steppy didn't have any interest in publicizing that particular story. Not news, see?
So let's not pretend we're dealing with a symmetrical system here. That's laughable.
Trump should take the high road here and just say" I am very sorry that my call upset Mrs. Johnson. That was not my intention and I wish her and her family all the best as they mourn over the great loss of Sgt. Johnson. "
Can anyone think of any reason that Trump made the call other than to try to do the right thing (whether he succeeded or not)?
Can anyone think of any reason for the congresswoman to go to the press to say anything about the call?
Quite frankly, I am baffled that these battles over the NFL or with a widow seem so critical to people.
Then you are probably a Lefty and haven't had to endure the constant attacks from the media and the rest of the Left for the last fifty years.
I'm shocked that people allow themselves to get emotionally invested in these fights.
See above.
The NFL protests were happening for over a year, and all of a sudden it became a "thing."
Up until this season the "protests" were almost exclusively by a washed up second rate quarterback trying to impress his Leftwing wacko girlfriend by badmouthing the police and the United States. It was becoming a non-issue because the idiot managed to alienate all 32 teams and was out of the league. Then it became a league wide attack on Trump this season, and the American people have responded.
People are bashing a young, 6 month-pregnant widow.
Most of us were/are bashing a loud-mouthed Democratic politician attempting to use the death for political gain. The widow then chose to enter the fray.
From my point of view, these verbal escalations are not necessary, due to staff incompetence (or presidential preference) and, quite frankly, are a waste of the time for the Head of State.
We know...Republicans are never supposed to defend themselves.
I wonder -- and this is a serious question -- is it entertainment, and is that why "punching back" so hard against NFL players or a widow is met with such approval? ... Or do you honestly think these escalations are going to change the politics, culture, or society in some positive way?
Well rolling over and doing nothing didn't work.
Can anyone think of any reason for the media to have reported what the congresswoman had to say about the call?
Let me clarify for you www:
If I could line the DNC-media members up in a long line and personally smack their smug smiles off their faces I would. I'm so sick of hearing liberals, progressives, Democrats, socialists and establishment hacks ascribe ill intent to me and mine, just on the basis of who I vote for, or the things I hold dear. These elected officials and their allies in the media slander me every day and "my" party never fights back. Just look at Chuck. He gets far more exorcised about Trump and "Trumpkins" (whatever that might mean) than he does about ANYTHING the media or Democrats say.
Every Republican presidential candidate has been compared to Hitler in my lifetime. When Republicans pointed out Obama's socialistic rhetoric they were pilloried. Look at old baggy "basket of deplorables" Hillary! She felt so secure in her liberal bubble that she blatantly insulted a fourth of the electorate, writing us off as "irredeemable" -- which not even God himself would say about His children. There is always a chance for redemption, unless you are a Republican, in the monoculture of the DNC-media complex.
So yeah I've been waiting a long time for just ONE republican to fight back twice as hard. Where did you hear that before, www?
He shouldn’t call any bereaved families, ever. Letters only, written by his staff. He can’t be trusted to behave in a Presidential manner. Then he should have the decency to make an apology to the widow and her family in a dignified manner. But he won’t, because he is a “fucking moron” as Tillerson so aptly called him.
I also don't think the congresswoman should have spoken about the call. It's an example of escalating, rather then deescalating the situation. She should have called privately if she had a concern, and perhaps advocated for the widow so she could see the body. This incident is going to complicate the widow's grief, and it's making her family a partisan target.
If one assumes best intentions for everyone: Trump was sincere. Widow was distressed and reacted to awkwardness with crying. Congresswoman knew the soldier since he was a boy, and acting out of grief, escalated the situation in a public way. Then Trump administration escalates. Congresswoman escalates. Trump admin escalates again. Widow goes on TV and escalates. Trump escalates with a tweet.
And so it goes. You need an adult in the room to calm down what started as a misunderstanding.
"Letters only, written by his staff."
He could also skip signing them himself. Like Rumsfeld did.
Then he should have the decency to make an apology to the widow and her family in a dignified manner
Why doesn't Saint Hillary provide an example and go first by apologizing to the families she lied to while standing next to the bodies of their fallen sons?
And so it goes. You need an adult in the room to calm down what started as a misunderstanding.
What if the initial attack by the Democratic Congresswoman wasn't a misunderstanding, but a deliberate attack on the president as political grandstanding, as usual.
The soldier was missing for 2 days. She wants to know what happened to him. Have you ever had anyone close to you die? In early grief, it becomes very important to know how they died. It's important to know what happened to the body. It's not enough to know that they are dead.
I totally agree that closure is important. IF that means examining the remains of the body for some people, then that is their choice.
To get really gross and graphic................Have YOU ever seen the results of a dead body that has been blown to smithereens and left in the heat and humidity to swell, bloat, rot and even further explode?
I haven't (THANK GOD and never want to) seen a human in these circumstances, but have certainly seen, experienced and smelled the results of cattle, deer, and other unfortunate animals in these circumstances. Animals that have been hit by loaded logging trucks and splattered all over the road or hit or shot and left to bloat.
(You haven't lived until you've had to attach a rope to the legs to pull the disemboweled and partially broken in half deer out only to have it further break, ooze and slough off into smaller pieces when you attempt to pull it out of the road leading to your house. Either move it or leave it for more days or weeks to further rot and stink)
Death and rotting bodies are nothing like the neat wrap ups you see on television or in the movies. It is horrific, sad and visceral.
I can't imagine how horrific the remains of Mr. Johnson must be after days and days in Niger, probably dismembered, disemboweled, scavenged by predators, oozing, rotting and smelly. There is no way to embalm such a thing. No ice for preservation for days and days.
I can't imagine, nor would I want to see such a thing as my last indelible, forgettable mental picture of the man I love. Generally, to discourage viewing in these situations is a kindness.
However, if that is what she wants.....Give it to her.
The democrats are making it clear they are not going to accept the election. They are also demonstrating clear contempt for the rule of law.
The left is that drunk loud table at the bar everyone tries to ignore. Now they are throwing empty bottles at the people telling them to shut up. Time to put them out.
Most of the people in the media should commit ritual seppuku.
Unforgettable mental picture of my loved one.
Once seen, you cannot UNsee some things.
One of the few things Europeans do right is limit the names you can give a kid. Stupid made up names almost always signal the class the kid comes from and that is almost always a burden for the kid.
As for Congress trash Wilson, she needs looking into. A lot of crookedness there.
The wife is also pregnant, which may be making her grief worse.
I agree, this controversy is being fueled.
John Podoretz is an anti Trumper.
Journalist 2.0 is active.
... God give them wisdom that have it.
And those that are fools, let them use their talents ...
The invasion of privacy is a comic irony that seems to elude their grasp. I suppose that privilege is only afforded to abortionists, contractors, and intended victims.
There are no honest disagreements or sincere misunderstandings in all this.
This is not normal life, it needs to be repeated as many times as it takes.
This is a propaganda war where everything is simply ammunition. Nobody is dealing with reasonable people, anymore than they are when in a knife fight to the death.
That, a knife fight, is the correct analogy for your situation. This is disturbing, perhaps, and most of you reject it - some obviously because they are themselves propagandist participants in this struggle, but most because they are perhaps too good to understand the situation. It can be shocking to a settled person to realize that someone really is trying to kill you.
The fight at the moment is rhetorical, but that is just a phase of the general power struggle. The rules are the same - there are no rules.
It's unseemly for Trump to talk about this.
I *get* the hesitation to say someone's name- my husband has two cousins who I've now known for 30 years and I am still afraid to say their names because I'm afraid I will call each one by the other's name. It isn't a rational fear, but it is a mental block and so I don't say their names.
But he needs to drop this.
Achilles remarks: Most of the people in the media should commit ritual seppuku.
We wish. But those who need most to commit seppuku are the least likely to do so. No sense of honor.
But he won’t, because he is a “fucking moron” as Tillerson so aptly called him.
He was smart enough to campaign in Wisconsin...
Re the anthem protests, my brother is a far left liberal and he brought it up in a dinner meeting with my nephew when the three of us met to give the nephew some career advice. The best part was that my nephew, a med student, is not a sports fan and he didn't even know who Kaupernick was nor about the anthem protests. But my brother insisted on enlightening him anyway.
Later my brother brought it up again 2X and I finally asked him to shitcan the topic and he said why when everyone is talking about it. I said as best as I could tell, he was the one who kept bringing it up. That shut him up for a bit. He reminded me of the old definition of a fanatic as " One who won't change his mind and who won't change the subject".
Remember when Obama went to the 10th mountain division and talked about their medal of honor recipient as someone he had met- when in reality he had died in combat?
Here's the story:
http://www.blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/06/obama-flubs-medal-of-honor-winner.html
Visiting troops at Fort Drum yesterday, President Obama confused his Medal of Honor recipients, referring to one of the soldiers’ comrades who was killed in combat in Afghanistan as being alive.
Speaking to the 10 th Mountain Division Obama reflected on the time he spent with members of the Division. “Throughout my service, first as a senator and then as a presidential candidate and then as a president, I’ve always run into you guys,” he said. “And for some reason it’s always in some rough spots.”
“First time I saw the 10th Mountain Division, you guys were in southern Iraq. When I went back to visit Afghanistan, you guys were the first ones there. I had the great honor of seeing some of you because a comrade of yours, Jared Monti, was the first person who I was able to award the Medal of Honor to who actually came back and wasn’t receiving it posthumously,” the president said.
Jared Monti was actually killed in Afghanistan on June 21, 2006. True, Obama did aware him the Medal of Honor - the highest military decoration awarded by the United States - but he did so posthumously in September 2009.
Obama presented the first Medal Of Honor to a living recipient who served in Afghanistan to Staff Sgt. Salvatore Giunta last year.
I mean, that's pretty terrible. But everyone just dropped it.
“The democrats are making it clear they are not going to accept the election. They are also demonstrating clear contempt for the rule of law.”
No one is above reproach, not Kelly, not Trump. He won the election, yes indeed he did, it’s way past time that he behaved like an American President. If he can’t or won’t, we won’t ignore it. If you truly had respect for the rule of law you wouldn’t continue to repeat your asinine comments about him winning the election. He won the election, no kidding. We’re all aware of it. We won’t give him a pass his gross incompetency. The First Amendment is part of the rule of law, don’t forget it.
I do understand her impulse to need to know, need to see. It's meant to be merciful of course, but it isn't always. I lost somebody many years ago in a car accident in a manner that necessitated a closed casket, and the fact that I never saw him added years to the process of acceptance. I would have both waking and dreaming fantasies that he was just somewhere else, working for the government undercover. His job before his death had nothing to do with the government and it was just an addled, desperate manifestation of the denial stage of grief.
Maybe Trump can ask HIllary! to find the guy that made the video that caused the Niger ambush.
Howard said...
Just imagine if everything was the same, except the President was Obozo Hussein and the soldier was poor white trash from Alabama named Cletus Spunkler. "You people" would be shitting yourself silly about how BHO hates America, hates the military, hates you, hates your ancestors, hate, hate, hate.
We just had 8 years of Obama in which roughly 2,500 Americans died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why does the left believe so many things that are demonstrably false? My hypothesis is drugs and drum circles.
Maybee - it's hard to believe these arrogant pols are not given a cheat sheet by an aide before every meeting so they won't make gaffes like that. But I bet, in most cases, they do have a cheat sheet but, due to their arrogance, they go all ad hoc because they just love to hear their own voices. Joe Biden and Obama are my proof of this.
This entire thing smells like a setup. If you go back and listen to Gen. Kelly's remarks the other day, you will hear him say quite clearly that before the president (or the USMC Commandant) calls a family, there is a pre-call to ensure that the family is willing (or able) to take the call. Sounds to me like a good and logical thing to do.
So let's assume the pre-call happened, and a time was arranged for the president to call. Oh gee, when he called, Congresswoman Wilson just happened to be present and able to listen in. What a ko-in-ki-dence.
A normal Congressman would have piped up and said, "Hello, Mr. President, I'm Congressman Wilson from the 24th District, and I'm here with Ms. Johnson because she's one of my constituents. Thank you for calling."
A normal Congresswoman ...
“I mean, that's pretty terrible. But everyone just dropped it.”
Could it be because President Obama didn’t attack anyone for criticizing him for it? Could it be because he acted in a dignified Presidential manner? Why didn’t he do as Trump has been doing when he is attacked? Because President Obama is a normal decent human being.
People are bashing a young, 6 month-pregnant widow.
No, we aren't. Most of us here aren't. I'm not. It's an absurd tactic to say that we are, but that's about par for this kind of thing.
Here's an example: are all the NFL players who "take a knee" attacking "the flag" or the troops or cops in general? The Media insists they're not. Now Kapernick is on record saying "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color" so it seems reasonable to say that he, at least, was "taking a knee" to express a lack of pride in "the flag." Is that generalizable to the rest of the protesters? Is it fair to say since he's said that all the rest of the protesters are responsible for expressing that sentiment, too? The Media insists it is not and have roundly criticized Trump for implying/asserting that it is.
So, by the same token: are some people "bashing a young pregnant widow?" Yeah, probably someone out there is. I doubt even they are "bashing" her because of her status as a young pregnant widow, but let's agree with your implication that it's never ok to "bash" such a person. Does the fact that she's being bashed by some people automatically taint everyone who is critical of her actions, of Rep. Wilson's actions, and of the Media's actions? That seems pretty unfair to me, but maybe I'm wrong. Either way, though, let's be consistent.
I don't see how Trump comes out ahead by continuing a he said-she said with a gold star widow.
Trump could just say something like, "I'm sorry if I messed up on the call. I sincerely apologize to Mrs. Johnson for any distress I may have caused her. That certainly wasn't my intention, just the opposite. My only intention and desire was to show my tremendous respect for her husband and his comrades in arms as well as for their surviving family members whose sacrifice is so great and whose pain I can only imagine. Perhaps I should have delegated that duty, but it seemed to me that Mrs Johnson, all of them, deserved my utmost personal effort.
Mrs. Johnson honored me by accepting my call and, again, I apologize for letting her down at this difficult time.
Could it be because President Obama didn’t attack anyone for criticizing him for it?
I don't know. Find an example of someone criticizing him for it- someone like a US Congressman. And then that Congressman getting lots of coverage for the criticism. Then I can let you know if that's why Obama didn't have days of negative coverage about it.
"He was smart enough to campaign in Wisconsin..."
Is this re Vlad?
Could it be because he acted in a dignified Presidential manner?
Yes! How dignified and presidential to not just not use a name- but to use the name of a friend of theirs who died and talk about how nice it was when he (Obama) got to award him the Medal of Honor in Person. That's so very Commander in Chief, isn't it?
AJ Lynch - It was a huge gaffe by Obama, all the more arrogant because he had met the guy who was still alive and bestowed the honor on the guy who died. The way Obama was treated vs the way Trump is treated in the media has changed my political views deeply.
A couple of thoughts from someone who as commanding officer had to make one of those calls and write one of those letters:
1) "What should have been on a big card right next to the phone as he was talking. Would have been in any other White House. LA DAVID JOHNSON."
In other words, when one has no regard for the action itself and everything is political, then the political form is the only thing that counts. The President didn't have to make that call, and I don't think any others have even done so, hence conjecture about what other white houses would have done is entirely specious. He thought he did this in private, i.e., it looks to me like a commander in chief who was genuinely trying to comfort the widow of a serviceman who was under his command when he was killed. That was the honorable thing to do, but the vicious, petty scumbags, including many on this thread, who have tried to take that act of kindness and turn it into racism or something similarly vile do great dishonor the memory of the sergeant.
2) The asshat in the cowboy hat no more cares about La David than a man in the moon. Her interjecting herself into the tragedy that has befallen this family is despicable. May she rot in hell.
Inga is really on a roll.
Her unhinged comments are representative of a lot of leftists and I hope they keep it up until they get slapped down hard next year.
Maybe then they will start to think about why they have lost 75% of the population.
Trump is crude and, like many salesmen, tends to overdo it on adjectives.
However, if anyone was going to stop the bleeding, a rough tough billionaire is the one. Austria and Czech Republic seem to have figured this out, too.
“I don't know. Find an example of someone criticizing him for it- someone like a US Congressman. And then that Congressman getting lots of coverage for the criticism. Then I can let you know if that's why Obama didn't have days of negative coverage about it.”
So how did you know of this incident? Obviously he was criticized for it somewhere, that you in turn read and then posted the incident here. President Obama behaved Presidentially and did not punch back, did not attack those reporting it, did not make a big issue of it, in other words he acted like a decent intelligent normal US President.
"The way Obama was treated vs the way Trump is treated in the media has changed my political views deeply."
Too much FNC-AlexJones-Rush-type media always does that.
"I don't see how Trump comes out ahead by continuing a he said-she said with a gold star widow."
Has Trump responded to the widow ? I have not seen that. All his remarks I have seen are directed at the Howdy Doody Congress person.
"Austria and Czech Republic seem to have figured this out, too."
And Russia. In fact Russia also decided to work on persuading us re the wisdom of such.
Cool.
Trump could just say something like, "I'm sorry if I messed up on the call. I sincerely apologize to Mrs. Johnson for any distress I may have caused her. That certainly wasn't my intention, just the opposite. My only intention and desire was to show my tremendous respect for her husband and his comrades in arms as well as for their surviving family members whose sacrifice is so great and whose pain I can only imagine. Perhaps I should have delegated that duty, but it seemed to me that Mrs Johnson, all of them, deserved my utmost personal effort.
Mrs. Johnson honored me by accepting my call and, again, I apologize for letting her down at this difficult time.
That's rather well written.
I don't even think that Trump had to "come out" and say anything. What he could have done, with the first inkling of a controversy, was to get together with WH Communications, and get the widow, and all relevant servicemembers, and not the Congresswoman, to the Oval Office to talk.
Why did that simple expediency get derailed? Because Trump jumped into the fray with a Tweet, before anybody knew any better. Looking at that original Trump Tweet, it looks like it was 4:25 am. Is that right? Can that be right? Trump was up at 4:25 am Tweeting on a subject like this?
That right there is the problem. Trump, left alone with an electronic device and no adult supervision at 4:25 am.
Bob Boyd -- I agree. Well phrased.
“AJ Lynch - It was a huge gaffe by Obama, all the more arrogant because he had met the guy who was still alive and bestowed the honor on the guy who died. The way Obama was treated vs the way Trump is treated in the media has changed my political views deeply.”
Even Presidents are human and make mistakes. Trump’s many mistakes would not be continuously in the news for as long as they are if he acted like a normal President and stopped his insane overreacting. He brings upon himself the derision of more than half of America. He feeds it. He is a “fucking moron”, Tillerson is right.
This is all Trump. Nobody else to blame. If he hadn't attacked the previous holders of the office of POTUS in the first place, none of this would have happened, including his call to the grieving widow.
Another own goal by a dumpster fire president.
Here's the link to the time-stamped Trump Tweet at 4:25 am.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/920611770775064576
I know very little about Twitter, as is my desire; is that the time that Trump Tweeted? It's not a different time zone, is it? Isn't Trump's Twitter account set for Eastern time? Can there be any mistake about what time he posted it?
"If he hadn't attacked the previous holders of the office of POTUS in the first place"
What?
He politicized POTUS responses to the Gold Star Families? Even though that wasn't the question he was asked at the news conference that started all this?
Wait until Kelly finds out about this sickening politicization. Hopefully, there aren't any indications of DJT doing other stuff re the culture and gals. Kelly wouldn't like that either.
I agree that Trump should probably not mentioned previous presidents and calling families although what I have seen as a quote is literally true. Still, this is a DNC operation and probably intended as a distraction from the Uranium story.
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