June 10, 2017

You can't just hug Jerry Seinfeld. In fact, you can't even assume he knows who you are when you're a celebrity.

In fact, you can't even assume that if he knew which celebrity you are he'd want to hug you.



And isn't he absolutely correct? Look at how Kesha embodies precisely what Donald Trump was talking about when he (very famously) said:
"I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."
It didn't work for Kesha, because Seinfeld didn't know who she was. Within her world, she's a star and when she wants to hug, apparently, she gets her hugs. They let her do it.

And maybe Jerry would have rebuffed the hug even if he did recognize her. Here he is, talking about the incident after the video went viral:
"In my reality… I don’t hug a total stranger. I have to meet someone, say hello. I gotta start somewhere. Hug isn’t first moment of a human, two humans. I never did that."

"I got a borderline harassment case here!"
The assumption that men always want physical contact with attractive/youngish women might be as bad as the atTrumption that when a man's a star the women let him do anything. (And I know, I'm not a man, and I expect you to school me about how men feel, but it doesn't matter if 90% of men want women — young, attractive women — to fling themselves into the man's arms and hug and kiss him. The 10% matter. And the 90% deserve to be asked for an indication of consent before the desired thing is transformed into a reality.)

ADDED: No means no. Jerry gives Kesha a no and she doesn't accept the no. She pressures him before finally giving up. Men get to say no too. Kesha displays the classic double standard, that the male no doesn't matter, that the much-reviled "no means yes" idea lives on.

126 comments:

Matthew Sablan said...

I dislike hugs, with almost all people. I wish I had the self confidence of Seinfeld to just say no.

Rene Saunce said...

IMO -It's not a man-women thing. It's an American thing.
I'm sick of hugging everyone all the time. Females are always hugging Hi, Hugging bye.

ugh. Hugs used to be special.

Ann Althouse said...

Before I read this, I thought the reason for the rebuff is that she'd get makeup all over his suit and face.

Fen said...

Typo, star not start

And Trump was talking about celebrity groupie gold diggers. And he's right, these women Will let you do anything you want to their bodies for a chance to marry your bank account.

Just ask Mic Jaeger, Eddie Van Halen, David Lee Roth

Ann Althouse said...

Watch the second video at the link, where Jerry has to explain to the interviewer why the fact that Kesha watched his show for 20 years doesn't mean that he knows her: "The TV doesn't work both ways."

n.n said...

I would assume that normal women, as normal men, do not welcome invasion of their personal space. There are exceptions, but they are nuanced, intimate, or socially liberal.

Michael K said...

Cosby is finding out that even 40 years is not enough time to get away from them.

Not when there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, anyway.

Laslo Spatula said...

For a man hugging a woman, it also depends on Hug Style:

1. Half Hug. One arm loosely wrapped. Leaning forward. Conspicuous space left between hips.

2.Three-Quarter Hug: One arm loosely wrapped. Hug from an angle: mild hip contact.

3.Three-Quarter Hug with Kiss on Cheek. Same as #2, but with an awkward attempt to seem European.

4. Full Hug, Level One: Both arms encircle the woman, feet are directed in the woman's direction. Woman's breast against man's chest: gentle.

5. Full Hug, Level Two: Same as #4, but: Woman's breast against man's chest: definite compacting.

6. Full Hug, Level Three: Same as #5, but Hips press lightly together.

7. Full Hug, Level Four; Same as #6, but man has Erection.

8. Full Hug, Reverse-Style: ; Same as #7, man has Erection, but is hugging from behind.

9. Full Hug, Reverse-Style Level Two: Same as #8, but man is gently gyrating hips against the woman's buttocks.

10: Full Hug, Happy Ending: Same as #9, but man ejaculates inside his pants. This is the threshold between Hugging and a Lap Dance.

I am Laslo.

Fen said...

For men the bugs are a trap in this day and age. I always go limp, let the women do the embracing, and gently pat them on the back.

It's all came and I hate fake. But it's better than being charged with "rape" because you hugged her to tightly or for to long or because it was Tuesday not Wednesday.

Fen said...

Hugs not bugs

Fen said...

Fake not came. Damn phone.

David Begley said...

Kesha's twitter profile says,"I am a rainbow." Other than that, I have no idea who she is. Seinfeld was right.

rhhardin said...

Nestling a breast against an arm is always welcome.

Etienne said...

Being of German/French heredity my parents never hugged us as kids, and they didn't like hugging from others.

When I was a kid, I leaned forward and kissed my mother on both cheeks. If it was a big occasion, then you did that twice. Sort of like when you say "oui oui" or "yes yes".

Do you want ice cream? yes yes.

The other thing is women spend a lot of time on makeup. If you hug them or go in for a big kiss, you are going to piss them off, as they will have to take out the compact and touch up.

So a secondary kiss, is an "air kiss". kiss kiss on both cheeks, but no touching.

A tertiary kiss, is when you kiss them where the hair and the ear meet. It's nice, and no makeup goes there anyway. You can't mess it up.

The later being reserved for someone of high mutual respect. Not peasants.

Film at 11...

prairie wind said...

Why not stick his hand out and say, "i don't think we've met. I'm Jerry and I'm afraid I'm not a hugger." Even famous people can let others save face and he does know which way the camera works.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I agree with Rene. It isn't a man woman thing to hug or not to hug. It is personal and how you were raised as well.

I feel very uncomfortable giving and getting hugs, even with people that I have known for years. Even with my family. When we greet each other, after an absence of months and months and when leaving the meeting we do give hugs but mainly as an obligation. We do the Laslo #3 version 3.Three-Quarter Hug with {air} Kiss on Cheek. Same as #2, but with an awkward attempt to seem European.

This doesn't mean we don't love each other. It is just we are not super touchy feelie types of people. Hugs and cuddling with my husband in private or at home. Cool. Hugs and cuddling in public...nope.

If I am approached by acquaintances or even strangers who want to hug, I am really uncomfortable and confused on how to handle it. GTF away from me!! or Just go along with a distanced hug and pat on the back???

rhhardin said...

It's not what you no but who you no.

Bay Area Guy said...

I like hugs. Preferably with women. Seinfeld needs to lighten up. If some strange blonde woman wants to hug you, let her hug you, jeez.

rhhardin said...

There are gender rules on tops and bottoms touching that I forget the details of.

Laslo Spatula said...

Hugging the Firefighter that just saved your cat from the burning house: Heartwarming Hug.

Hugging the Prostitute who just sucked your cock: Creepy Hug.

I am Laslo.

Bob Ellison said...

Maybe this will be the Anti-Hug Manifesto.

I hug my sons and family all the time. These are real hugs. Hugging someone you don't know or have just been introduced to is foolish, and, as Fen notes above, potentially dangerous for men.

Dogs have issues with hugs. Strong hugging can calm them, but it's a submission thing. They don't do social hugs. No arms.

Mary Beth said...

Seinfeld didn't allow the hug because he didn't want the po-po to shut him down. (Really old Kesha song reference. It's so old, she was still going by Ke$ha.)

Paddy O said...

There was a whole Seinfeld episode on this. Well it was more about a kiss hello, but the theme of unwelcomed personal greeting is there.

rhhardin said...

With men I assume they're checking each other for weapons.

Freeman Hunt said...

It would be a bad idea for someone that famous to allow total strangers to walk up and hug him.

John Tuffnell said...

I noticed bro hugs were a thing starting in law school in the early 90's when I was a few years older than most. Lotsa bro-huggers and I was Seinfeld in that video. Don't like hugging neighbors and especially co-workers. The drunk ones seem to have a hug entitlement mentality.

Meade said...

"Nestling a breast against an arm is always welcome."

Not if it's your moob, bro.

Kevin said...

Maybe Jerry is in the middle of some sort of contest?

Bruce Hayden said...

Hugging is very cultural. You mostly either grow up with it or without it. My family, esp on my mother's side (descendants of Puritans) never hugged, so when my father died last year, and we hadn't hugged in over 60 years, I doubt that either of us missed it. The few women in the family are, slowly, trying to change us. Which gets to the second dynamic, which is that the rules don't seem universal across the sexes. I don't have a problem anymore with hugs from women (though some of my brothers are slow learners there, but are progressing). But guys? When our father died, at his funeral, we accepted such. But I almost expect women to hug each other anymore, if they know each other. So, when my partner's daughter and son-in law come over, the women hug each other, and the opposite males, but the guys may not even shake hands. With her son and his wife, she and he hug, and that is it, but the son and I do shake hands. Oh, and hugs are obligatory with all the grandsons. My kid's SO is a hugger, so everyone gets hugged there. But other than those, I probably have a half dozen other women I hug when I see them, and that is it.

Problem with hugging for non-hungers, is that the hugger violate your personal space. Kinda like when some nationalities move closer to communicate, and others move away to reopen it. Females can more easily cross it with males, because they don't threaten our male identity nearly as much as other males do. I have little doubt that I would have reacted like Seinfeld here.

Meade said...

WWJD? And by J, I mean Joe Biden.

Rene Saunce said...

He stood his ground. At least she asked.

"may I rape you?" "no thanks."

Ann Althouse said...

My family didn't hug, but when I left to get on the plane to go off to college, my father suddenly hugged me. I experienced it as really weird. Isn't that sad?

Rene Saunce said...

I'm not anti-hug. I just don't like the cultural pressure to hug hug hug hug, all the time a hug. Hug Hi! Hug bye! ooo you said something I agree with - *Hug*

it's too much.

Rene Saunce said...

I adore my extended family. Cousins, aunts.. uncles. I have no problem hugging them. The only thing I do when hugging a male family member, I hold my chest inward. No breasts in a family hug. That's weird.

Etienne said...

There's a word in French: gauche

It doesn't just mean "left" it is all things disturbing. It's almost part of the Catholic catechism.

So when you lean forward to French kiss someone (no, not that French kiss), you offer your right side of your face first. That way the other person doesn't have to kiss your left side first, which is très gauche. (icky)

But don't fret, many get it wrong. Well, except Catholics and superstitious people.

Seeing Red said...

Not anti-hug, but that's sexual harassment in some quarters and he's older. Can't be too cautious nowadays.

Laslo Spatula said...

When a Man hugs a Good-Looking Woman he is saying "Get used to feeling my body press against you."

Next step: getting her Naked for Naked Hugs.

I am Laslo.

Bob Ellison said...

They're doing it in professional sports nowadays. Even kissing. The end times are upon us, but it will take a while.

Meade said...

Dogs hate being hugged. If you suddenly hug a dog and the dog defends himself with his teeth, you should blame yourself.

cubanbob said...

Ann Althouse said...
My family didn't hug, but when I left to get on the plane to go off to college, my father suddenly hugged me. I experienced it as really weird. Isn't that sad?"

Yes. Truly.

Gahrie said...

I'm not really into hugging, but I don't mind my friends who are. I am perfectly willing to hug my friends who like to hug, because I like to make them happy, and hugging seems to make them happy.

Hugging a complete stranger seems really weird to me, but if the stranger really needs a hug, I'm willing.

Meade said...

@Laslo,
Worked for me

Kate said...

For someone who claims to have watched the show, she doesn't seem to have watched the show. Jerry's phobias about the body are half the episodes.

Laslo Spatula said...

Meade said..."@Laslo, Worked for me"

Face it, Meade: we are more alike than you would ever want to admit.

That's OK, though: no one ever admits that they are like me.

But I can recognize congruities.

I am Laslo.

Chuck said...

1. I never knew who "Kesha" is. I still don't. She is the person who asked to hug Jerry Seinfeld and he declined.

2. Why did she want to do that, in the middle of a live, video-recorded interview. The hug business is way to informal/personal. The interruption business is every bit as bad.

3. Thanks to Althouse, if this helps to get us back to handshakes and (hopefully) meaningful words as the primary method of exchanging pleasantries and greetings. Kudos to Jerry Seinfeld. Handled to perfection: A) Decline the hug. B) Decline "just a little hug." C) Ask "Who was that?" D) Wish her well, whoever she was.

If "handshakes" were the rule, I have all the more doubts that Kesha (whoever she is) would have interrupted an interview. It's as if the hug part was so important that it was supposed to transcend even the routine courtesy of allowing an interview to conclude before approaching the subject. I think she would never have interrupted to simpley shake Jerry Seinfeld's hand and say, "I'm Kesha and I'm a huge fan of yours."

Chuck said...

"simply" ! Saw that ugly little typo just as I hit "Publish."

Bill R said...

Remember the "Mayflower Madam"? She was caught running a high priced call girl outfit in NY. Eventually she was doing an interview with a journalist and explaining she was quite proud of her organization. She said all the girls made a lot of money and had a lot of fun.

The journalist asked then why didn't she get a credit card machine and get to work like the others.

The Mayflower Madam replied, "Because I don't like strangers to touch me."

I remember thinking, "I'm with you honey".

Bill said...

Good for Jerry. Too much hugging going on. A warm handshake is an undervalued thing.

FullMoon said...

Meade said...

WWJD? And by J, I mean Joe Biden.
6/10/17, 10:02 AM


Platonic women acquaintances will hug without their breasts touching your chest. Biden pulls them in to feel the squash. Saw him do it in a video of commencement speech, He is a creep.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Etienne said...

Isn't that sad?

No, not at all. If my parents would have hugged me, It would have been awkward.

My dad used to grab his arm around my back, to my opposite arm, and I knew it was going to be followed-up by a fist to my right lung.

I never thought of it as a hug. It was more an Aryan thing. I always expected to get a pour le mérite and a train ticket to the Russian front, if I drank with him all day.

Meade said...

"For someone who claims to have watched the show, she doesn't seem to have watched the show. Jerry's phobias about the body are half the episodes."

That is a very good point.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

What I love about this Seinfeld/Kesha interaction is that after declining several times to be assaulted...hugged....by what is to him a total stranger, and then learning that she is "Kesha"!!!...........Seinfeld is all ...Who???

Evidently, not as famous as she thinks she is. lol

Hagar said...

My family didn't hug, but when I left to get on the plane to go off to college, my father suddenly hugged me. I experienced it as really weird. Isn't that sad?

Natural on your part as a kid, since your family did not hug, but sweet, because it shows he really, really loved you.

Marc Puckett said...

So not being into casual hugging is a 'phobia'? I think I reject that as a premise.

Char Char Binks said...

Now a man has to make a video apology for refusing to submit to sexual harassment from a woman.

exiledonmainstreet said...

In my family, you hug everyone when you arrive and again when you leave. Since I have a large family, that means it can take a good 20 minutes from the moment you announce "well, I have to get going" to the moment you actually walk out the door. Friends and visitors are not expected to follow suit; however, any family member who just up and left would be thought of as terribly rude. I have friends who find my family's hugginess sort of weird. To me, it's just the way we do things. I routinely end phone calls to my siblings by saying "I love you." A co-worker seemed to think that was odd. Of course, that same co-worker hasn't spoken to her brother in 20 years. She might have very good reasons for doing so, but I like my relationship with my siblings better.

However, the hugginess does not extend to strangers or casual acquaintances. The one thing I disliked about the South (besides the humidity and a lack of good pizza places) was the propensity of Southern women in particular to "slop sugar." No, I am not yet your friend, we just met 5 minutes ago and I do not want to hug you.

I agree with something Ann wrote a while back (at least I think it was Althouse): that Midwesterners combine friendliness with a certain reserve. That suits me just fine.

rcocean said...

I never understood the man on man hug. Shaking hands or a slap on the back is good enough.

Etienne said...

it shows he really, really loved you.

To show that, I would rather have four $20's for my wallet.

I'm sure the cab fare and bus tokens would eat that up fast.

William said...

I agree with pairie dog in that he could have been more gracious in his hug avoidance technique, but I agree with the hug avaoidance. One generally makes an exception for stacked blondes, but not always.......I don't know who Kesha is. From the looks of her she could be either a pop singer or a porn star. They're hard to tell apart.. It would be damaging for Seinfeld to have his picture taken with a porn star, especially if she was famous for tentacle porn. The photo shopping would be endless......Kesha is pretty far down on the celebrity list. A baronet doesn't just sit in the presence of a Duke. They ask permission first. I wonder if Jerry would have dodged a hug from someone higher in the aristocracy rankings. Would he dodge a hug from Meryl Streep or Michelle Obama?

rhhardin said...

Dogs like being checked for ticks. A quick operation for smooth short-coated Dobermans. There's a check-me-again move afterwards.

There's no reason celebrities wouldn't like it too.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Would he dodge a hug from Meryl Streep or Michelle Obama?

Probably not, because he would have known who they are. It is obvious he had zero idea who this weird woman was who was demanding that he give her a hug. Nope. Not gonna do it!

Meade said...

I try to avoid hugs from most women and men, strangers and otherwise, because I can't stand to have their perfume/cologne stuck to me until I can get to a shower.

The Cracker Emcee said...

Though very close, only Mom hugged in my family. Then, as we grew up and the spouses brought in the customs of their less-inhibited upbringings, we were, out of politeness, introduced to the practice of hugging near-strangers. Decades later I still find it awkward and somewhat inappropriate, often opting for a room-encompassing wave or an Irish Goodbye.

Laslo Spatula said...

"Would he dodge a hug from Meryl Streep or Michelle Obama?"

I would not want to be hugged by Michelle because I'm afraid she'd poke me with her cock.

I am Laslo.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"I try to avoid hugs from most women and men, strangers and otherwise, because I can't stand to have their perfume/cologne stuck to me until I can get to a shower."

Is that what you tell Althouse? "She hugged me, Ann. Ewww!"

Etienne said...

I can't stand to have their perfume/cologne stuck to me

No problem with me. I use Dial soap, and people want to rub against me. It's like cat nip.

It's under the clothes though. No sticking...

Meade said...

"There's no reason celebrities wouldn't like it too."

I know a celebrity who does.

But many celebrities are themselves ticks. Which makes a sort of zen koan. Q: Does a tick have Buddha-nature?

A: HUGS!!!.

rcocean said...

"I try to avoid hugs from most women and men, strangers and otherwise, because I can't stand to have their perfume/cologne stuck to me until I can get to a shower."

Dogs are the same way. Although they like to roll in horse manure.

Laslo Spatula said...

""I try to avoid hugs from most women and men, strangers and otherwise, because I can't stand to have their perfume/cologne stuck to me until I can get to a shower."

I like hugs from women until I can get us both in a shower.

Plus: Chicks Dig Laslo Scent.

I am Laslo.

Etienne said...

I took my wife on a date to a restaurant last night, and we just happened to meet an old friend of hers.

She gave me a hug and kiss, and said "Ooh you smell good. What's that you're wearing?"

"Crème fraîche !"

"Is that a French cologne?"

"Oh yes, very expensive stuff. My wife buys it, and I keep it in the fridge."

"Well, don't change anything!"

"I won't!"

My wife snorted like Ernestine...

Meade said...

"I would not want to be hugged by Michelle because I'm afraid she'd poke me with her cock."

Feel free to scroll down to the Bill Maher thread (2 posts down) if, in order to save your job, etc., you feel you need to apologize/"apologize".

We hope to have Rev. Jesse Jackson standing by to give absolution and process your credit card.

Meade said...

"Dogs are the same way. Although they like to roll in horse manure."

Not all of us. But yeah.

Laslo Spatula said...

"Feel free to scroll down to the Bill Maher thread (2 posts down) if, in order to save your job, etc., you feel you need to apologize/"apologize"."

The only apology I think I may need to make is to Hookers, because sometimes I refer to them as Whores, which is Not Nice.

Maybe there are other things I don't remember.

I am Laslo.

Meade said...

And now here is something Ann Landers said about hugging, etc., something that inspired the cultural backlash of Hugh Hefner's Playboy Philosophy: "And now, what is petting? Petting is necking that has gone out of control. It is kissing and hugging, plus wandering hands, with one or both parties reclining, and getting altogether too comfortable for anyone’s good. Petting is the forerunner of going all the way. THIS can lead to heartbreak, pregnancy, disgrace and a sudden, unenthusiastic marriage at an early age.”

Left Bank of the Charles said...

She does take no for an answer.

Yancey Ward said...

Was I really the only one who thought about the Kiss Hello?

Yancey Ward said...

I see Paddy O mentioned it- when I did the text search, I put in "the kiss hello" rather than just "kiss hello"

Laslo Spatula said...

"Was I really the only one who thought about the Kiss Hello?"

There is the 'Kiss Hello' air kiss.

There is the 'Kiss Hello' peck on the cheek.

And then there is the 'Kiss Hello' on the cock.

Then you know she is Really Happy to see you.

I am Laslo.

Meade said...

Strange to think there was a time when fathers needed to be trained to understand that they should not hug and kiss and pet and neck and have wandering hands while comfortably reclining with their children. Weird.

Laslo Spatula said...

"Strange to think there was a time when fathers needed to be trained to understand that they should not hug and kiss and pet and neck and have wandering hands while comfortably reclining with their children. Weird."

Like I said earlier, Meade: we are more alike than you would ever want to admit.

Maybe you should end your comments with "I am Meade."

Just a suggestion.

I am Laslo.

Yancey Ward said...

Ann Althouse wrote:

"My family didn't hug, but when I left to get on the plane to go off to college, my father suddenly hugged me. I experienced it as really weird. Isn't that sad?"

My mother is a hugger, but not a prolific one. My father never hugged when I was growing up and has always been reticent. However, when I went off to college, after about a week at school, I got a letter from my father telling me how much he loved me and missed me since I had left. I still have that letter 33 years later.

Yancey Ward said...

I am not much of hugger myself- I will only initiate it with very, very close friends or family. I don't rebuff anyone the way Seinfeld did here, even if they are strangers, but then I am not a celebrity who has almost certainly had nutjobs stalking them. If I were, I might have maced Kesha.

Meade said...

Or maybe just: I, Meade.

I like it. Here I'll try it:

I, Meade

Hagar said...

To show that, I would rather have four $20's for my wallet.

Now that is sad.

Michael said...

If Jerry was a college student he would be brought up on rape charges within a semester.

LordSomber said...

Nevertheless, he persisted.

Alex said...

Typical feminist. I also hate forced hugging, always have since I was a kid. To me hugs should be something special between a man and his wife ONLY.

Alex said...

Ann Althouse said...
My family didn't hug, but when I left to get on the plane to go off to college, my father suddenly hugged me. I experienced it as really weird. Isn't that sad?


No! I think intruding into someone's personal space is sad and desperate. Of course I give a special exception to mothers, they can't help it. Nature's wiring and all.

EDH said...

rhhardin said...
Nestling a breast against an arm is always welcome.

They don't call him rh"hardin" for nothin.

Meade said...

Now, now, Mr. Erectile Dysfunction H.

I, Meade

fivewheels said...

Seinfeld is starting to build a good track record of being right on just about everything.

It's not hard to believe he didn't know who Ke$ha was. But a key part of this story has to be that Ke$sa accused her producer of rape to try to get out of a recording contract she found unfavorable. I don't declare that I know whether the accusation is real or not, though I have my suspicions, but I do know that's why the accusation came out.

Jerry dodged a fucking bullet.

fivewheels said...

I suspect Althouse "didn't know who that was," or possibly this post would have turned out differently.

Kirk Parker said...

"Kinda like when some nationalities move closer to communicate, and others move away to reopen it. "

My wife once had a conversation with a German colleague that traveled about 100 feet down a hallway during the interchange. Helga would move closer to get to her comfortable conversation distance, and my wife would gradually step away to get back to her comfortable distance. About half way through the chat, my wife became consciously aware of what was going on and thought, "I'm a trained anthropologist! I see what's going on; I'm not gonna let this happen!" and tried to just stand her ground.... but she couldn't. The moment she lost hold of the thought "don't back up!" and started focusing on what her colleague was saying, the dance resumed.


FullMoon,

"Platonic women acquaintances will hug without their breasts touching your chest."

Wait, you mean all those women over the years who have hugged me (or danced with me, same difference) w/o managing to exclude their breasts from contact really wanted to...
...
...
...

Um, Laslo--help me out here, ok?

Kirk Parker said...

rcocean,

"I never understood the man on man hug"

It's that loathsome Russian influence again...



Etienne,

" What's that you're wearing?"

Eau de Hoppe's!

fivewheels said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
EDH said...

One thing I've noticed about Seinfeld: unlike a lot of celebrities, he's not only his own decision-maker, he's the one communicating those decisions to all the people he has to deal with.

On the road, he doesn't have a lot of people around him making decisions or fronting for him. He travels with little entourage. In many cases, he's the one you talk to about the most mundane arrangements of his performance.

I think it's his comedy club upbringing and revulsion of Hollywood celebrity.

So I think he's more empowered to react to situations like that: to make a quick decision and politely but insistently to stick with it. He's learned that after many years on the road.

Many celebrities can't make decisions or say no, and that's a big reason why gatherings like that that offer access to celebrities are so strict about who has access to those celebrities, so they don't even have to deal with that.

walter said...

Meade..your comments on this are "kinda rapey".

This story has me picturing the Seinfeld gang..Maybe Elaine, saying "She just hugged me. She's one of those..huggers"

Hugging has never been a Seinfeld thing

Alex said...

That's kind of funny because on Julia Louis Dreyfus' new show 'Veep' her character also disdains hugging.

ALP said...

Oh I love to bitch about hugging. I'm a female under 5' tall; in nearly every case, the hugger is much larger than me, which makes for a very claustrophobic experience - I feel utterly absorbed by the much larger person, and its annoying. I've beat on a few guys that have hugged me with my little fists (to little effect) and they just think that's hilarious.

AND its especially annoying coming from a tall woman with huge boobs, although a short man may disagree there.

Birches said...

I feel very uncomfortable giving and getting hugs, even with people that I have known for years. Even with my family. When we greet each other, after an absence of months and months and when leaving the meeting we do give hugs but mainly as an obligation.

This doesn't mean we don't love each other. It is just we are not super touchy feelie types of people. Hugs and cuddling with my husband in private or at home. Cool. Hugs and cuddling in public...nope.


This is my perspective too!

I hate that feeling of obligation hugs when you haven't seen someone for a long time and so the whole family lines up and hugs each other. It doesn't feel sincere to me.

We are the only ones in my family who live far away. When I go back home to visit, I don't hug my family members. I walk in the house and sit down and act like I was just at the store or something. To me, the fact that my family can come in and act like no time has passed between our last visit is more of a testament to our relationship than a hug. I do hug my mom when we leave and if I'm visiting our extended family (who I probably only see every other year), I hug all of my aunts and uncles. But I think that's a respect thing. You always have to hug the older members of your family to show your love. I would have to do that even if I saw them twice a month.

I'm so glad someone else feels this way. My FIL got into it with me after our last visit because he thought the fact I didn't want to hug him meant I didn't like him. I don't think he believes me when I say I would just rather not hug anyone.

CStanley said...

My family didn't hug, but when I left to get on the plane to go off to college, my father suddenly hugged me. I experienced it as really weird. Isn't that sad?

Yes, and similar experience here, but the nice part is that the last time I saw my dad (when I was home visiting and he had a terminal illness though we didn't realize at the time how soon he would die) he gave me a warm hug and I still retain a visceral memory of it. Maybe that would have also occurred if we'd been lifelong huggers but I think the rarity of it made the impression more meaningful.

walter said...

It also reminds me of a college roommate in Madison back when "Every man is a potential rapist" was the new campus refrain (late 80'). He was very friendly back then..particularly to African American guys..sometimes waving hello to those he didn't know. Anyways..He was always hugging women within the circles of friends..seemingly benevolently (hard-on?)..while being a err..member..of Men Stopping Rape.
I was out seeing a band with him at the ole Club De Wash back then when a woman of barely acquaintance level began talking with him then proceeded to variously touch him and grab his balls..somehow jostling his round John Lennon glasses to the point where he caught them from falling off his face..with this befuddled, helpless, scared look. I still remember the big confident grin she had all the while.
He just let her do it...no stardom necessary.
I don't know if he discussed the incident at the next MSR meeting.
Later in adulthood (pre-cell phone ubiquity), we were in Milwaukee and he wanted to use a phone. He entered a bar that apparently had all black patrons and was immediately thrown up against the wall for questioning.
If only they knew he had studied Malcolm X's autobiography back in the day...he and I trying to do nutmeg at one point.Only got headaches.

mtp said...

Two reasons a man might not want to hug an attractive younger woman
-He does want it, but maybe even too much and is trying to avoid being a creep.
-He is trying to avoid being clowned into looking like a creep.

Ann Althouse said...

Oh, for the days of the Club De Wash and no cell phones!

The Vault Dweller said...

I'm with Jerry on this. I don't like to hug anyone. I don't even like hugging family.

Deb said...

Mother always said, a handshake is as good as a hug.

Deb said...

In my family, we only hugged at funerals.

walter said...

Ah..kinda the kiss of death.

Yancey Ward said...

Meade, you are going to get sued by Apple for copyright violations.

Rae said...

I am a hugger, as is the rest of my family. But we don't randomly hug strangers. I think Kesha did it for publicity. "Looked who hugged Jerry Seinfeld. Uh, what's your name?" But Seinfeld knows how to put the kibosh on that.

Popville said...

As Yosemite Sam might say: When I say "no" I mean "NO!!"

- fake Mel Blanc

Harris said...

I am guessing that Mrs. Seinfeld appreciates the fact that Mr. Seinfeld doesn't just pass out hugs to any strange female, no matter how attractive or famous. He might even get a hug for it.

Saint Croix said...

Dogs hate being hugged.

In Charlotte we have a new thing called Lucky Dog. It's a dog park/sports bar. Awesome place to meet girls, because the dogs always break the ice.

Sometimes I don't want to meet anybody, and I just park myself somewhere and let the dogs lick me. Dogs love me for some damn reason.

Yesterday I sat down on the ground and this big ass ugly pit bull was so happy. Just kept trying to lick my face and wanting to sit in my lap.

I don't want to say that this big ass ugly pit bull was like Kesha, but apparently that is the analogy I am making.

Marc Puckett said...

Saint-Croix's comment piqued my interest and, Lord, the number of indoor dog parks and dog parks with cafes (if not necessarily specifically with bars) is frighteningly large, from the 'what decadent indulgence will they invent next?' perspective. Not here in Eugene, not yet anyway. If I'm not interested in profligate hugging, how much less likely am I to be with the notion that a score of unknown dogs are going to be licking at me if I let my guard down after a couple of pints?

At least I knew Kesha's name, although I figured it was pronounced with a long e.

SeanF said...

Kate: For someone who claims to have watched the show, she doesn't seem to have watched the show. Jerry's phobias about the body are half the episodes.

Meade: That is a very good point.

I disagree. It's actually an unfair criticism of Kesha (albeit a mild one). AFAIK, she is not "someone who claims to have watched the show."

The reporter who interviewed Jerry in the second video offers it as a possible explanation for her behavior, but she did not make that claim.

Michael McNeil said...


I am Laslo sez: When a Man hugs a Good-Looking Woman he is saying “Get used to feeling my body press against you.”

I, Meade sez: Dogs hate being hugged.

Saint Croix sez: In Charlotte we have a new thing called Lucky Dog. It's a dog park/sports bar. Awesome place to meet girls, because the dogs always break the ice.

Sometimes I don't want to meet anybody, and I just park myself somewhere and let the dogs lick me. Dogs love me for some damn reason.


Ha ha! Dogs love me too!

Moreover, I say, a la Laslo: When a Man visiting such a dog park massages a Good-Looking Woman's dog's backbone or belly/chest — and she sees her beloved pet collapse in ecstacy — the message to the Good-Looking Woman is: the Man could be doing this to your backbone — or something at least as pleasurable at a location of your choosing!

Ingot9455 said...

Kesha's finest inspiration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RfGy0xWvho

That's the only reason I know who she is.

Ed Longshanks said...

I'm a white male and I go to a black church and so get hugged a dozen times every service. I HATE it. I don't even hug my sons. But it isn't harassment. Come on, be a man. If a woman rubs her tits on you or grabs your butt its not going to give you nightmares. I'm tired of this feminization that tries to pretend that a men and women don't have different sexual attitudes and behaviors.

I'm still a guy

William Chadwick said...

I'm a heterosexual male, and maybe it was the way I was raised but I'm just uncomfortable when other men hug me. I certainly don't enjoy it. On the other hand, I'm also uncomfortable when women hug me--i.e., press their breasts against me--but for a different reason: I worry that I might enjoy it more than the women would want.

docweasel said...

Looking at her, I'd be afraid of something in her hair, I dunno, lice? She doesn't look clean, she looks like a cheap hooker. I wouldn't hug a hooker.

Martin said...

D-list meets A-list, D-list gets delusions of grandeur?

Saint Croix said...

If I'm not interested in profligate hugging, how much less likely am I to be with the notion that a score of unknown dogs are going to be licking at me if I let my guard down after a couple of pints?

I like Seinfeld, but I don't think he's a dog person.

I don't want to say he's a cat man. But probably heading that way.

Saint Croix said...

Googling "Seinfeld" and "cats" I found this and this.

Saint Croix said...

Jerry Seinfeld on the dog.

Seinfeld does have a dog. Two dogs. But one of his dogs hates him.

“Here’s where I feel really bad ’cause this poor guy, Cesar Millan, who has fixed every dog he’s ever met … he’s not gonna fix this dog,” joked Seinfeld. “When he leaves he’s gonna be in tears, ’cause he’s gonna have to say to me, ‘I’m sorry there was nothing I could do. This is one messed-up dog. This dog is a sick puppy.'"

And here is the master list of Seinfeld names for your dog.





Micha Elyi said...

Sororities don't bother making their pledges march past the men's dorms chanting, "No means Yes, Yes means I'm having your baby!" because the Cultural Establishment accepts that as the norm. It's not transgressive in the least little bit.