February 15, 2017

"The real scandal here is that classified information is illegally given out by 'intelligence' like candy. Very un-American!"

Tweets Trump, quoted in a NYT article titled "Trump Condemns Leaks to News Media in a Flurry on Twitter."

Also in the flurry:
“This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton’s losing campaign”...
And:
“Information is being illegally given to the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost by the intelligence community (NSA and FBI?). Just like Russia”
Underlying NYT article on the front page right now, "Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence." Excerpts from that:
The intelligence agencies... sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election. The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation....

The officials said that one of the advisers picked up on the calls was Paul Manafort.... Mr. Manafort, who has not been charged with any crimes, dismissed the officials’ accounts in a telephone interview on Tuesday. “This is absurd,” he said. “I have no idea what this is referring to. I have never knowingly spoken to Russian intelligence officers, and I have never been involved with anything to do with the Russian government or the Putin administration or any other issues under investigation today.” He added, “It’s not like these people wear badges that say, ‘I’m a Russian intelligence officer.’”

233 comments:

1 – 200 of 233   Newer›   Newest»
Nonapod said...

Turns out the swamp is full of swamp monsters. Take on the Deep State and the Deep State will fight back.

Unknown said...

Reports are that Obama is actually coordinating this attack on Trump's administration from the moles he left.

When does that become treason? Actively undermining the Democratically elected President rises to the level of waging war or committing insurrection at some point, does it not?

It's a coup attempt, and should be punished harshly. Like, say hello to Mr. Sparky harshly.

--Vance

rhhardin said...

I don't know that it's unAmerican. People sandbag you at work.

That's all this is.

The defense is not caring.

Greg said...

Trump should take the entire swamp and do a Reagan ATC on them. Let them reapply and pick and choose (extreme vet their lazy butts)

Michael K said...

Take on the Deep State and the Deep State will fight back.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"...Mr. Manafort, who has not been charged with any crimes..."

Good Lord, they're not even trying.

traditionalguy said...

Trump must be closing in on a successful Presidency. It has drawn fire from the screw worms of the CIA who planned to slowly eat him from inside out, but are now in panic now as the President quickly surrounds himself with loyal Generals and Admirals.

The plot is clearly Obama's. He slowly did in Hillary and he thinks he can succeed at a coup d'etat on Trump for being a Russian plant. Then the plan channels into the Martial Law and disarming Americans that the Military has been trained for by Obama.

But it has happened too soon. No one blames Trump yet for the existence of a strong Putin and Russia. And no d'etente has been negotiated between Putin and DJT.

Once the fake smoke clears, the Congress will have to support DJT or be exposed.

SockPuppet#55 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birches said...

Hasn't the gist of this NYT story run at least three different times in different publications? They keep going back to this like maybe this time it will stick. It hasn't yet.

Fernandinande said...

"I’m a Russian intelligence officer."

That would be a cool unneeded stinkin' badge. Hats and bumper-stickers too.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"Reports are that Obama is actually coordinating this attack on Trump's administration from the moles he left."

Yeah sure, blame it on Obama. Why not be brave and take a closer look at the man you voted for, or maybe you don't really care that he could be an Siberian Candidate, who now is the POTUS. National Security be damned. What happened to patriotism on the right?

Stephen said...

Isn't the key point that Trump's campaign repeatedly denied contact with Russian intelligence or Russian operatives more generally? If you lie repeatedly, and inside people know you are lying, doesn't any sensible citizen in fact hope that there will be leaks? That's the history of, among other things, Vietnam and Watergate. Would it be better for the government to rule on the basis of uncorrected lies?

Greg Hlatky said...

Perhaps Trump should talk to Scott Walker about his experiences with taking on entrenched interests.

walter said...

“It’s not like these people wear badges that say, ‘I’m a Russian intelligence officer.’”
--
I thought that was required by the "reset".

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Trump should take the entire swamp and do a Reagan ATC on them.

Yes. Start at the top with the Sally Yates type. Appointees from the last administration who are insubordinate, actively undermining the new administration's actions. Fire them. Can their asses.

Then go down the food chain. You may not be able to fire the lifetime civil service slugs, but you can determine who is going to be a problem and transfer them to a back office somewhere in a backwater office. Decentralize much of these offices. Separate and isolate the trouble makers. Stick them in a basement office someplace with nothing to do, no internet access and a manual typewriter.

There are too many people working for the government as it is and you can pare down the staff to a reasonable number.

Plus....if these "people" have time to be spying, leaking information, tweeting, etc....then they aren't working anyway. Can their useless traitorous asses!!!

SockPuppet#55 said...

Stephen@10:55 is right. Trump has said that there has been no contact with the Russians by his campaign advisors during the campaign. There is proof there was. Did Trump lie to the FBI and say there was no contact with Russian Intel by his advisors? What happens when you lie to the FBI?

David Begley said...


Sally Yates at DOJ clearly had the transcripts. Now suppose the FBI questions her. She takes the Fifth. FBI then questions WaPo reporter. Fifth. And WaPo screams.

As long as no one breaks ranks, the perfect crime. Omertà.

Achilles said...

Obama will be more flexible after the election.

The left has no principles or morals. It is all about power and control.

Achilles said...

SockPuppet#55 said...
What happens when you lie to the FBI?

If you are a Clinton or Obama or a democrat, nothing apparently.

Lem said...

What was the point behind the chatter with Russians of any kind or stripes?

Something stinks to me.

eric said...

Trump is trying to drain the swamp. The swamp doesn't want to be drained. He should expect the push back will continue to increase.

He needs to keep fighting, tirelessly.

And if he isn't careful, they will get rid of him. If we lose this battle, then the swamp will never be drained. I fear Trump is our last chance.

Achilles said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bruce Hayden said...

Trump is right. Federal crimes were committed to expose that information. The people who did so, appear to believe that they are above the law, and they don't apply to them. And mostly probably voted for Crooked Hillary who was just as blasé about violating our laws for persona gain and profit.

First, some perspective. The recording of the Russian ambassador is pursuant to FISA. Recording him talking to home would be fine. Maybe. But the minute that an American citizen (or legal resident alien) is involved, you need a FISA warrant, and minimization procedures are required to protect the US "Person". Under Bush(43), the PATRIOT ACT was tweaked a bit in order to allow, for example, al Quaeda operatives on the phone here to be recorded when the NSA had been following phones from caves in Afghanistan. At the time, we were in the midst of a Separation of Powers dispute concerning the President's power to do his job when it violates the specifics of US statutes (Youngstown Steel prong 3). The issue, in the end, was how to protect the rights of Americans to be safe from unwarranted searches and seizures, when the NSA is following calls on foreign phones and the conversations inadvertently end up including people protected by the US Constitution. Which is where "minimization" comes in - those conversations need to be protected because the Feds didn't have warrants (FISA or wiretap) when the conversations were (otherwise illegally) recorded.

SockPuppet#55 said...

Obama was the President when he said that he'd have more flexibility with Russia. That comment was perfectly within his role as POTUS. What purpose did contact with Russian Intel during the campaign serve for Trump aides?

Unknown said...

Trump is going down as the Siberian Candidate. No good blaming Obama, Hillary, the Left, Progressives and so on. This one belongs to the Trumpies and the Republicans. You supported and voted for Trump.

Achilles said...

Flynn talks to Russians, resigns.

Hillary takes millions of dollars from Russian Oligarchs and ok's sale of 20% of north american uranium to Russian firm. She did it for the children!

Achilles said...

Unknown said...
Trump is going down as the Siberian Candidate. No good blaming Obama, Hillary, the Left, Progressives and so on. This one belongs to the Trumpies and the Republicans. You supported and voted for Trump.

For what? I want to watch as you prove you have no idea what you are talking about. Tell us specifically what Trump and the administration did.

I know you can't.

Achilles said...

SockPuppet#55 said...
Obama was the President when he said that he'd have more flexibility with Russia. That comment was perfectly within his role as POTUS. What purpose did contact with Russian Intel during the campaign serve for Trump aides?

What purpose didn't it serve? Is there some law that says you can't talk to Russians?

What specifically did Trump do? I want to see the inner workings of your fevered imagination. This will be entertaining.

SockPuppet#55 said...

Achilles,
Have you not thought about what might be in Trump's taxes? Why he won't publish them? The possibility he may have something to hide?What if he is as bad or worse than Clinton? What will you do? Will your world crash down upon you?

Clayton Hennesey said...

Glenn Greenwald at The Intercept says some felonies are wholly justified and should be excused, regardless of the law:

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/14/the-leakers-who-exposed-gen-flynns-lie-committed-serious-and-wholly-justified-felonies/

I agree. Sometimes you run across someone, pace Greenwald, who just needs killing no matter what the law says.

Big Mike said...

He's right, you know. And the sooner Jim Clapper is in jail the better.

Achilles said...

I look forward to watching Obama get ratted out by people who will claim Obama asked them to leak TS/SCI SIGINT information to the press. Will all of his henchmen/women go to jail for him?

You can't record phone calls of US citizens without a title 50 writ. This is right up there on the SAP level. Some people are going to jail for a long long time including the journalists who printed what they knew were recorded hone calls.

I bet some of them offer up Jarret or Obama to get a lighter sentence.

Big Mike said...

@SockPuppet, the choice was between Trump and Hillary Clinton. Thanks to stupid Democrats (but I'm being redundant!) that was the choice we were faced with. Trump has to produce an awful lot of awfulness before anyone sane would concede that Clinton would have been a better choice.

SockPuppet#55 said...

Trump whines about leaks, yet he said how much he loved Wikileaks during the campaign. So many of these video moments will be replayed to highlight the hypocrisy as the days and weeks go by. Flynn standing up at that podium at the Republican Comvention chanting "Lock her up, lock her up.." and ranting about national security, that's a good one, made me chuckle.

Original Mike said...

"Have you not thought about what might be in Trump's taxes? Why he won't publish them? The possibility he may have something to hide?"

You know how we know there isn't? If there were, the IRS would have been leaked it already.

Achilles said...

SockPuppet#55 said...
Achilles,
Have you not thought about what might be in Trump's taxes? Why he won't publish them? The possibility he may have something to hide?What if he is as bad or worse than Clinton? What will you do? Will your world crash down upon you?


Who cares. I don't think he is a god like you treated Obama. I hope we would find out he used every loophole and cheat to keep as much of his money as possible. I would also expect he owes some bank in Russia some money. Oh the humanity.

Trump is who I support because of what he is doing. He is cleaning out a rats nest of shitheads and douchebags. If it takes a shithead and a douchebag to do it so be it.

And it would be almost impossible to be worse than Clinton. The Russians gave her straight payments of millions of dollars. Not loans or low interest. Pure Graft for obvious QPQ's. The only thing the left has is a will to power. You are not good people.

FullMoon said...

The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence

Yeah, that article is full of stuff like this, as usual..

No evidence Obama is a transvestite, so far,,,


Chuck said...

President "I love WikiLeaks!" is angry about documents and information that were illegally made public.

Duly noted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4WiSrA-IG4

sunsong said...

oops :-) Lots of serious questions about Trump's (and his cronies) connection with Russia still to be asked and answered!

SockPuppet#55 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Achilles said...

SockPuppet#55 said...
Trump whines about leaks, yet he said how much he loved Wikileaks during the campaign. So many of these video moments will be replayed to highlight the hypocrisy as the days and weeks go by. Flynn standing up at that podium at the Republican Comvention chanting "Lock her up, lock her up.." and ranting about national security, that's a good one, made me chuckle.

Podesta was a fucking idiot and fell for the dumbest phishing scam in the world and some hacker somewhere got them put up on the net. The emails highlighted unethical and illegal activity and no democrat has challenged the veracity of the emails.

The NSA secretly taped conversations of and American citizen where nothing illegal or really that bad was discussed and leaked it to major media to undermine an administration it ostensibly works for.

Two completely different things.

What did Obama know? And when did he know it?

LYNNDH said...

What, whomever called didn't say his name was Boris? I am getting so very tired ( and the admin has just started) with all this the Russians are Coming the Russians are coming crap. Is the left just recycling the old movie? Seems so.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Why not follow Obama's lead and harshly crack down on leaks. Review reporters phone records and emails. List reporters as unindicted Conspirators. Force them to testify under oath or sit in jail.

Who could object if Trump does what Obama did?

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

The Cracker Emcee said...
"...Mr. Manafort, who has not been charged with any crimes..."

Good Lord, they're not even trying.
2/15/17, 10:46 AM

They're trying too hard.

Bay Area Guy said...

Can I make a simple point here -- maybe our leftist friends will understand.

Our primary enemy is radical Islam.

Our primary enemy is not Russia and/or Putin.

True, our primary enemy was the Russia/Soviet Union from 1945 to 1989 -- that era was called the "Cold War." During the Cold War, the Russians had a penchant for invading countries either directly or by proxy to shut down democracies and/or democratic uprisings (see Korean War, 1950; see Hungary, 1956; see Czechoslovakia 1968; see Afghanistan, 1980.) We almost got into a nuclear war with them (see, Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962).

That's why they were our primary enemy.

Now, post-Cold War, Russia is not invading Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland or Poland. Nor are they threatening to invade Berlin. Nor are they threatening to nuke us. That's a step in the right direction, no?

So, today, Russia also doesn't like radical Islam. So it would make sense to align the US and Russia, together, when we can, to fight radical Islam, when it serves our interests, right?

In sum, we don't hate Russia, we don't love Russia. But, to the extent we share an interest to thwart radical Islamic terrorists, we should unite with them.

Achilles said...

SockPuppet#55 said...
Achilles doesn't consider that the intercepted recordings came from the devices of the Russians.

I have. But why would Russians want to drive out someone they had compromised? If they had leverage on Flynn why would they want him fired? There are people talking in the community who know what the Obama people are doing and why.

You don't think. You are clearly not very smart. None of you idiots who are buying this shit are very smart. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Obama or his people are the ones that will go down for this, not Trump. Have fun with that lefties.

Hunter said...

"Mr. Trump said at a campaign event that he hoped Russian intelligence services had stolen Hillary Clinton’s emails and would make them public."

Liars. What Trump said was that he hoped Russia would release the rest of Hillary's emails since they probably HAD stolen them.

Guess the writer had to find some way to still call Trump a bad man while walking back from the even stupider claim that Trump was "encouraging" Russia to hack into Hillary's server, which at the time was sitting unplugged on a shelf in some FBI evidence locker.

buwaya puti said...

If you Americans are truly lucky, you will end up with no "intelligence" agencies at all. It's not a bit clear that the duplicative mass of these are delivering any national security value given the world situation. And it seems they are a danger to the state.
There isn't actually a "great game" going on like during the Cold War. The armed forces were drawn down enormously at the time, but the intelligence agencies were expanded and duplicated.
Maybe one entirely new one can be re-created from scratch afterwards.

Matthew Sablan said...

Flynn screwed up, and he's gone. That's fine.

But, a lot of people are playing fast and loose and should ALSO be gone.

Original Mike said...

"Why not follow Obama's lead and harshly crack down on leaks. Review reporters phone records and emails. List reporters as unindicted Conspirators. Force them to testify under oath or sit in jail."

We could call it Operation Holder.

Gusty Winds said...

What sins has intelligence community commited that need to remain covered? My guess is the American public would be horrified if they were ever told the truth.

All this makes you rethink some things:

Looking back I could see the logic in the post war narrative that the Iraq WMD intelligence was wrong because Sadaam was trying to bluff Iran into thinking he had them. Made sense.

But no. Those fuckers (IC) knew he didn't have them and lead us go to war on a false premise. That's the Occam's Razor explanation.

The biggest questions are 1) Did they dupe Bush on purpose, 2) Or did Bush know and the chants of Bush lied people died are true?

I think it's number 1.

Chuck said...

Trump, today in the ongoing press conference with Prime Minister Netanyahu, called the treatment of Michael Flynn terrible, by a biased news media.

Remind me; who fired Flynn? Fired Flynn because -- the White House press secretary says -- the President's trust in Flynn had eroded so badly?

Actually, I think that last line is the real lie. I don't think the President's trust in Flynn was eroded. I think the President wanted most of all for Flynn to stay on, with no public exposure of what the President had been told by intelligence officials and the White House counsel's office. Only because of the intense outside pressure thanks to the reporting of true information, and the threat of legal action, caused the President to throw Flynn under the bus.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"In sum, we don't hate Russia, we don't love Russia. But, to the extent we share an interest to thwart radical Islamic terrorists, we should unite with them."

No we should not unite with a government that has a leader and form of government that murders journalists and people they deem enemies of the state. That is fundamentally un American. We are the United States of America, NOT Russia. We are not going to lower our standards to conform to the Russian standards.

Rick said...

Buried in the 11th paragraph of the NYT :

The officials would not disclose many details, including what was discussed on the calls, the identity of the Russian intelligence officials who participated, and how many of Mr. Trump’s advisers were talking to the Russians. It is also unclear whether the conversations had anything to do with Mr. Trump himself.

Nutters like sunsong are running around like headless chickens and the reporters don't even know if the subject involved Trump. This recalls the media campaign effort to paint Trump's wire instructions to his property's bank as "secret Russian communications involving funds transfers". What a farce.

Remember these same people pretending to care about national security made excuse after excuse for Hillary exposing national secrets to all our global competitors.

AMDG said...

The use of illegally obtained leaks is only an issue when the victim is a Democrat.

Remember - for the left hypocrisy and lying in service of the narrative is not only encouraged, it is considered a sacrament.

Matthew Sablan said...

"If you lie repeatedly, and inside people know you are lying, doesn't any sensible citizen in fact hope that there will be leaks?"

-- There's a right and wrong way to go about doing it. Releasing it to the press is terrible, since who knows what else they can release when they want. Don't think that the Trump administration wouldn't have done in Flynn for lying to them. Unlike past administrations, extreme loyalty in the face of obvious error by subordinates is not one of the faults of the current one.

"For what? I want to watch as you prove you have no idea what you are talking about. Tell us specifically what Trump and the administration did."

-- Fired someone who needed firing.

M Jordan said...

I've got this big feeling that a book-of-Esther type of reversal is soon to play out. If you're not familiar, Haman tricks King Ahasuerus into ordering genocide of the Jews including Haman's arch-enemy, Mordecai. Haman construct gallows to hang Mordecai on but alas, in a series of great reversals, it is Haman who must hang.

Obama, clearly behind this, is busy constructing gallows for Trump and his subordinates. For the moment, it's working. But Obama is never as smart as he thinks he is. His success has always relied upon a compliant, worshipful media. He mistakes their worship for his own genius. And the media, I hate to inform him, isn't as smart as they think they are.

We shall see what transpires but I think Trump is shrewder than them all and I think God is on his side.

Seriously.

Gusty Winds said...

You know the thing about this last summers Wikileaks releases of John Podesta's emails, is you could see the content of the conversations and judge for yourself.

With the Flynn situation you can't. The transcripts should be released. And if our intelligence community says they can't because they're classified, then the whole thing is a joke.

Michael K said...

If you Americans are truly lucky, you will end up with no "intelligence" agencies at all. It's not a bit clear that the duplicative mass of these are delivering any national security value given the world situation. And it seems they are a danger to the state.

Yes and we need to decapitate CIA. Pompeo may find out why Porter Goss failed to make a dent.

Michael K said...

By the way, people seem to be forgetting about feeding trolls.

Robert Cook said...

"Reports are that Obama is actually coordinating this attack on Trump's administration from the moles he left."

Oh, for Pete's sake! What "reports?" Why would Obama care in the least about trying to topple Trump?

The intelligence agencies may well be coordinating attacks against Trump, but the intelligence agencies have long acted independently of the President's prerogatives when it suits them. This is just an example of the deep state trying to show Trump who's boss.

Robert Cook said...

And, of course, Flynn certainly deserved to go.

Todd said...

sunsong said...
oops :-) Lots of serious questions about Trump's (and his cronies) connection with Russia still to be asked and answered!

2/15/17, 11:31 AM


Thanks to the MSM and lefties laissez faire attitude to Obama and his administration, unless I see mushroom clouds out my window I find it hard to get worked up over anything that Trump has or might do. That crowd screams NAZI and FASCIST so loud and so often over the least little thing NOW after being so silent of actual wrongs that I am numb to it all EXPECTANTLY after giving Obama and Hillary SUCH a pass.

So seriously, until I actually see smoke AND fire, I don't care.

Hagar said...

We are not going to lower our standards to conform to the Russian standards.

The state your party is in today, that would require a considerable raising of standards on your part.

traditionalguy said...

One wonders what would FDR, Marshall, Eisenhower and Churchill could have done fighting The Third Reich, if they were too pure to join forces with an old paranoid Communist named Stalin who controlled Russia then?

Chuck said...


Obama, clearly behind this, is busy constructing gallows for Trump and his subordinates. For the moment, it's working. But Obama is never as smart as he thinks he is. His success has always relied upon a compliant, worshipful media. He mistakes their worship for his own genius. And the media, I hate to inform him, isn't as smart as they think they are.


I've been seeing these sentiments all over right-wing media today. That it's Obama. Obama is still lurking out there, scheming and plotting against Trump and American interests. That Obama is the enemy and not just the enemy but a potent enemy at that.

Shheeeesh! How about we just work on actual policy to correct the Obama-era excesses and errors? And let go of the Obama Derangement Syndrome?

[btw; I heard Charles Krauthammer yesterday claim credit for having first penned the phrase "Bush Derangement Syndrome." I checked it online, and a Google search confirms a largely unanimous support from a variety of sources for Krauthammer's claim.]

virgil xenophon said...

DBQ@11:01AM/

Only one thing SERIOUSLY WRONG with your analysis: The basement office should be located in the city in the northern-most reaches of ALASKA!

Robert Cook said...

"Trump must be closing in on a successful Presidency."

This depends on how you define a "successful Presidency." If you mean more riches for and fewer burdens on the great financial and banking and corporate entities and more burdens on and greater impoverishment for the rest of us, yes.

If you mean the people will be better off...ha! Not a chance.

Bay Area Guy said...

@Sock

No we should not unite with a government that has a leader and form of government that murders journalists and people they deem enemies of the state. That is fundamentally un American. We are the United States of America, NOT Russia. We are not going to lower our standards to conform to the Russian standards.

Have you cracked a history book? During WWII, we united with Russia -- and their murderous dictator Stalin -- who starved to death a few hundred million farmers in the Ukraine famine, and who helped CAUSE WWII by joining Nazi Germany in their Polish invasion in 1940.

Russia and Putin circa 2017 are choir boys compared to their recent historical counterparts.

Robert Cook said...

"The plot is clearly Obama's. He slowly did in Hillary and he thinks he can succeed at a coup d'etat on Trump for being a Russian plant. Then the plan channels into the Martial Law and disarming Americans that the Military has been trained for by Obama."

This is, bluntly, crazy.

(This is not to say that America may not sooner than later be placed under martial law, but not from a plotting Barack Obama hoping to become dictator. It'd be much more likely from the "People's Prez," Donald Trump.)

sunsong said...

Great song: Impeachable, by Paul Stokey of PPM

Original Mike said...

"This is not to say that America may not sooner than later be placed under martial law, but not from a plotting Barack Obama hoping to become dictator. It'd be much more likely from the "People's Prez," Donald Trump."

This is, blunty, bonkers.

Robert Cook said...

"Trump has to produce an awful lot of awfulness before anyone sane would concede that Clinton would have been a better choice."

Between these two, there was no "better" choice. Only shit-awful and awfully shitty.

Bill Peschel said...

Ah, I remember the days when blind attacks on a person's reputation without proof was called "McCarthyism."

Now it's "Obamaism."

Bay Area Guy said...

1939, not 1940 -- sorry my bad.

traditionalguy said...

Cookie...You are speculating too. But you want to say you guess is better than mine. Well there is a way to find out guessed better. Let's wait and see if Trump is a phony.

You are correct that the strange character calling himself Barack Obama is only a role player complete with Family. But he is in need of another role to play now. And his Producer , George Soros, who brings a cast of thousands including Fake News announcers is eager for the show to start.

AJ Lynch said...

Russia Russia Russia ...is that where the new boogeyman lives Ritmo?

Yet Obama didn't seem to think Russia was such a menace.

On the other hand, Obama cut a bad deal with the Iranians so maybe Obama's menace-detecting meter was broken.

narciso said...

That reminds me

Http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/02/the_hypocrisy_of_ben_rhodes.html

AJ Lynch said...

I think the Obama did it theory is bonkers. Obama is too lazy to cook up a scheme like this.

Bruce Hayden said...

@Achilles - if they had been recording Flynn's phone, then yes, Wiretap Act. But, if they were tapping the phone of the Russian ambassador, then more likely, I think FISA. The critical point is the target of the wiretap - you need Wiretap Act warrants by a federal judge for targeting US Persons, but FISA controls for international calls if the target is not a US Person (US citizen or legal resident alien). Need to refresh my understanding of FISA - I think it matters where the target phone is, whether the target phone is in the US or not, and I suspect that the Russian embassy would not be considered w/I the US. But the rest of the time?

Rick said...

AJ Lynch said...
I think the Obama did it theory is bonkers. Obama is too lazy to cook up a scheme like this.


No one needs to cook up a scheme like this any more than Obama needed to tell Lois Lerner to hold up Tea Party applications. Government officials know who their enemies are.

Mike Sylwester said...

David Begley at 11:06 AM

She [Yates] takes the Fifth.
FBI then questions WaPo reporter. Fifth.
... As long as no one breaks ranks, the perfect crime. Omertà.


Yates should be charged criminally for leaking the information.

Compel her to either ...

* publicly lie

or

* publicly take the Fifth.

tim in vermont said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tim in vermont said...

CIA and NSA doing oppo research for the Democrats, the IRS doing donor suppression. DOJ smothering investigations into powerful Democrats, while undertaking political prosecutions of Republicans.

But the problem is that Wikileaks got some truth before the voters.

Sebastian said...

Trump should pardon Flynn now for any and all transgressions, sending along an FU to the establishment trying to undermine him.

Harold House said...

I spent 1/2 of the 1980s in the USSR on economic and technology issues and I can assure you that you have to be a fool to think that less than every other official person was involved with their intelligence service and the other half who were not quickly made reports to those who were.

AJ Lynch said...

Rick:

You make a good point and I agree that the long imbedded govt bureaucrats didn't need any prompting to do this.

Basil said...

Blogger SockPuppet#55 said...

"In sum, we don't hate Russia, we don't love Russia. But, to the extent we share an interest to thwart radical Islamic terrorists, we should unite with them."

No we should not unite with a government that has a leader and form of government that murders journalists and people they deem enemies of the state. That is fundamentally un American. We are the United States of America, NOT Russia. We are not going to lower our standards to conform to the Russian standards.

2/15/17, 11:44 AM

So, when FDR allied with the Communist Soviet Union to defeat Nazi Germany he was "lowering our standards"??????

Industrial strength stupid there.

Rick said...

Harold House said...
I spent 1/2 of the 1980s in the USSR


I have a vague memory of something big happening in the USSR between then and now. Can't quite put my finger on it...

Chuck said...

tim in vermont sarcastically notes that, "But the problem is that Wikileaks got some truth before the voters."

tim makes a fair point. Democrats never seem to answer that one very well.

But tim, why isn't it also true that it was important to get some truth before the public, in relation to Trump campaign insiders communicating with Russian intelligence agents? That subject is at least as important to me, as the Democrats' internal squabbling over who should be their presidential candidate and how that candidate should be chosen.

In the case of the revealed Democratic emails, they were illegally intercepted and then disseminated to the harm of the owners. In the case of the Flynn contacts, they seem to have been LEGALLY observed, perhaps pursuant to a FISA warrant, or perhaps through SIGINT operations under the law, but then illegally leaked.

Are the two incidents so substantially different in kind?

buwaya said...

"I have a vague memory of something big happening in the USSR between then and now."

I've got no doubt that any visitor to modern Russia is going to be very thoroughly spied on and all their electronics will get compromised. Actually, various corporate security policies make just such clear about any travel to Russia or China. Pencil and paper are probably the only things you should be carrying, and maybe not even that.

SockPuppet#55 said...

In WW2 we allied with Russia to defeat the Nazis. Yes. No kidding. Since then there was the Cold War which got pretty warm at times. Now we have another authoritarian power in modern Russia and Putin. We have other allies, we don't NEED Russia.

traditionalguy said...

There is nothing to pardon General Flynn for doing. Talking to the Russians and every other National Leadership to arrange Trump's take over of the Presidency was his job.

Just because the Fake Media pretends a crime happened by General Flynn speaking to the Russians, only means we need to laugh at them. DJT fired him because he was doing his job while being recorded by the NSA. The next thing needed is a written courier service for the President. Maybe the USMC can help with delivery of top secret messages in secret.

walter said...

Well Chuck, one difference is the degree of context, completeness in what was released/leaked.
By the way, the wikileaks revealed more than an internal Dem squabble. But then..you wouldn't know the media was caught colluding with Dems (and vice-versa) since only DWS suffered a setback.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Trump should pardon Flynn now for any and all transgressions, sending along an FU to the establishment trying to undermine him."

-- If he did anything illegal, he should face the same penalties that any one else would.

Matthew Sablan said...

"only DWS suffered a setback."

-- And Clinton.

Original Mike said...

"Are the two incidents so substantially different in kind?"

Yes, in the Flynn case it's our government doing the leaking to bring down another piece of the government. The fact that that doesn't scare you is disappointing.

Original Mike said...

@Harold House - didn't you use to post here years ago?

Michael K said...

The Deep State was determined to get Flynn, maybe because he threatened the Iran Deal and to publicize it. I wonder why that was so important?

Trump has just hired another anti-Iran staffer for the NSC.

I wonder how they will go after her ?

walter said...

Blogger Matthew Sablan said..."only DWS suffered a setback."

-- And Clinton.
--
Oh..you think she lost more supporters than she gained due to media collusion?

Alex said...

If you already hate Trump, you believe that he is full of scandals. If you like Trump, you will believe the DC crowd is out to get him. There is no in between where the real truth lies.

hombre said...

"Deep State" means what, unprincipled, Democrat apparatchiks?

How deep does the corruption go? IRS, check. DOJ, check. State, check. VA, check. FBI, check. NSA, DIA, CIA, check?

Matthew Sablan said...

It doesn't matter what I think. She believes it is one of the many things that cost her the election.

Alex said...

There is nothing to pardon General Flynn for doing. Talking to the Russians and every other National Leadership to arrange Trump's take over of the Presidency was his job.

Why couldn't Flynn just keep his mouth shut until Jan 20th? Why was there such a pressing need to talk to Russian official on Dec 29? Just another typical lack of discipline in Trumpland?

Alex said...

What matters now is what does the American public think? I guess no grace period for Trump, just impeach already.

M Jordan said...

I agree with many above who say blaming Obama is conspiratorial. There's no proof Obama directed any of this. But the spirit of Obama lives on in the so-called "Deep state" ... Ms. Yates is Exhibit A. That cannot be denied.

Xmas said...

I'd agree with walter. These news reports about Flynn are all secondhand stories. "Flynn talked to someone about something at some point." There are classified transcripts, but no one is releasing them.

The Wikileaks releases were actual emails from actual Democrats discussing actual acts of collusion with reporters and other things.

Michael K said...

"I guess no grace period for Trump, just impeach already."

Dream on.

Michael K said...

Why was there such a pressing need to talk to Russian official on Dec 29? Just another typical lack of discipline in Trumpland?

Why was Obama's NSC guy talking to Russians before he was sworn in? IF you don;t want to seem a fool, why act like one ?

walter said...

Meanwhile..this guy got hired by the "reformed" Times...

“No worries Because I have become a hack I will send u the whole section that pertains to u,” Thrush wrote to Podesta in an April 2015 email. “Please don’t share or tell anyone I did this Tell me if I fucked up anything.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/12/new-york-times-hires-reporter-who-sent-stories-to-clinton-staffers-for-approval/#ixzz4YmaYYrzf

It's the price he had to pay..

Chuck said...

Original Mike said...
"Are the two incidents so substantially different in kind?"
Yes, in the Flynn case it's our government doing the leaking to bring down another piece of the government. The fact that that doesn't scare you is disappointing.

Do we know that? Do we know how and why and by whom the leak was made? I wouldn't even claim to know how and why and by whom the Wikileaks info on the Dems was obtained.

Unlike Trump, I never once said, "I love Wikileaks!" Or, "Lock her up!"

I do like the rule of law honoring legal protections for confidential information. So in fact I really am troubled by what might well be felonies in the disclosures in the Flynn case. Other people are troubled by how the Wikileaks info on the Dems was disclosed.

Original Mike said...

"I do like the rule of law honoring legal protections for confidential information. So in fact I really am troubled by what might well be felonies in the disclosures in the Flynn case. Other people are troubled by how the Wikileaks info on the Dems was disclosed."

What "other people"? You implied they are the same.

Nonapod said...

Flynn was certainly targeted, and targeted in a demonstrably illegal fashion by Obama loyalists, but ultimately what he did was wrong. If the official story is accurate, he talked about sanctions with Russian officials before he had any authority to do so, he then lied about it to his superiors. To me, him discussing sanctions isn't really that big a deal, but him later lying about it to his superiors in the administration is.

As to the whole "Obama's behind all this" theory, look... we don't need any of this evidenceless conclusion jumpery or general conspiracy theorizing. It may be fun but it doesn't really serve your side and only helps the oppositions characterizations of your side (as in "Hahaha! See! They're all unhinged!". If at some point in the future some real evidence arises, that's one thing. But baseless accusations hurt more than help.

Chuck said...

Xmas said...
I'd agree with walter. These news reports about Flynn are all secondhand stories. "Flynn talked to someone about something at some point." There are classified transcripts, but no one is releasing them.

The Wikileaks releases were actual emails from actual Democrats discussing actual acts of collusion with reporters and other things.


So would the best thing be to release the full recordings of all conversations between Flynn and suspected Russian agents before the time that Flynn was sworn in as National Security Advisor?

To me, that might not be the best thing. To me, the best thing would be to set President Trump down in front of a live television camera, and ask him if firing Flynn was the best thing for the United States and for our national security. I presume that Trump's answer would be yes. How could it not be? He fired Flynn. He must have fired Flynn for good reasons. I sure hope that it was in our national interest to fire Flynn, because the alternative to that is that it was not in our national interest to fire Flynn.


SockPuppet#55 said...

"Why was Obama's NSC guy talking to Russians before he was sworn in?"

Cite needed, or it's just fake news.

Bruce Hayden said...

Just to get this out front - It is highly, highly, highly unlikely that Obama had any involvement whatsoever. Theoretically, he might have been able to authorize something in his last hours in office, but I don't see that legally extending to releasing the information about Flynn. In any case, he is too smart, and too lazy to be involved in this. His MO has always been to turn a blind eye to questionable stuff going on around him. Any thoughts of tying Obama to this are just misdirection.

SockPuppet#55 said...

Trump intimates the firing of Flynn was all the media's fault. So if the truth didn't get out via leaks and the media, Flynn would still be in like Flynn. Trump blatantly tell America that the truth is the enemy here. If Flynn did nothing wrong, why didn't Trump defend him, why did he throw him under the bus? So what if Flynn lied to Pence ( why did he lie to Pence), Trump doesn't care about lies.

Birkel said...

So are leaks good again, or what? Anybody have a spare copy of the rule book?

Nonapod said...

One thing I've observed is that Trump is not a good liar. Whenever he fibs it's usually in a very blatant and obvious way, and it's from a place of pure emotion. This goes to him not really being a politician at all. He isn't practiced and measured at lying. He isn't a good dissembler. He wears his emotions on his sleeve.

This can be starkly contrasted against characters like Hillary Clinton and Obama. They were both master level liars. They could carefully craft untruths, word them in such a way with hedged language, omissions, equivocations, and booby traps meant to trip up their opposition. They were also master dissemblers, you generally didn't get a good sense of their true feelings.

Chuck said...

Birkel said...
So are leaks good again, or what? Anybody have a spare copy of the rule book?


For my part (and as said by Trey Gowdy today), if I have to choose I am going to say that I am against leaks and I favor the rule of law that would punish all illegal leaks.

We had one person in the presidential race last year who said, "I love Wikileaks." He was the same guy who also said Edward Snowden was a "traitor" and mused about a death penalty. There's a guy who might need a rule book.

Chuck said...

Nonapod said...
One thing I've observed is that Trump is not a good liar. Whenever he fibs it's usually in a very blatant and obvious way, and it's from a place of pure emotion. This goes to him not really being a politician at all. He isn't practiced and measured at lying. He isn't a good dissembler. He wears his emotions on his sleeve.


That's a very interesting notion. I would not disagree! I am curious how you factor the infamous "John Miller/John Baron" debacles in your analysis.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/16/donald-trumps-john-miller-interview-is-even-crazier-than-you-think/?utm_term=.c3043d80a3da


Birkel said...

Chuck, so called, I continue to wait on your apology. You published a silly, vulgar comment that was based on your poor reading comprehension.

I will continue to wait.

As for Wikileaks, I will continue to exercise ambivalence. There is no meaningful U.S. law that covers foreign intelligence services' data gathering.

There are laws against leaking classified information by Americans.

Michael K said...

"But baseless accusations hurt more than help."

I don't know that they are "baseless" but investigation might be in order.

This is interesting.

In what’s shaping up to be a highly unusual post-presidency, Obama isn’t just staying behind in Washington. He’s working behind the scenes to set up what will effectively be a shadow government to not only protect his threatened legacy, but to sabotage the incoming administration and its popular “America First” agenda.
What is Organizing for Action? It is a less violent version of Mussolini’s black shirts and Hitler’s brown shirts, or of the government-supported goon squads that Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez and Cuba’s Castro brothers used to harass and intimidate their domestic opponents.

OfA isn’t, strictly speaking, a new group. After the 2008 election, the group, then known as Organizing for America, was a phony grassroots campaign run by the Democratic National Committee that sought to replicate the community organizing techniques Obama learned from the teachings of his fellow Chicagoan, Saul Alinsky. OfA was created in large part because the White House could not legally use the 13 million e-mail addresses that the Obama campaign compiled in 2008.

Former U.S. Rep. Bob Edgar (D-Penn.), sounded the alarm about OfA in 2013, suggesting the group was dangerous to democracy. “If President Obama is serious about his often-expressed desire to rein in big money in politics, he should shut down Organizing for Action and disavow any plan to schedule regular meetings with its major donors,” he said as president of the left-wing group Common Cause. “Access to the President should never be for sale.”


We'll see but I would like to know more about this group.

Birkel said...

Chuck, so called, if you are really George Clinton Donor Snuffalupagus then I retract my request for you to do the proper thing and apologize.

walter said...

Chuck said...o me, the best thing would be to set President Trump down in front of a live television camera, and ask him if firing Flynn was the best thing for the United States and for our national security. I presume that Trump's answer would be yes. How could it not be?
--
Umm..getting beyond this scenario/hearing you envision, wouldn't you expect him to essentially restate his previous stance? (No violation, matter of trust re: statements to Pence)

SockPuppet#55 said...

So WHY did Flynn lie to Pence and Priebus, if he was doing nothing wrong in speaking to the Russian Ambassador about sanctions before Trump was sworn in? McCain can ask, but I doubt he'll get answers from this White House. Questions need to be asked with the person being questioned under oath.

"Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) wants to know why former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn lied to Vice President Mike Pence.

The Arizona senator said Wednesday he is sending a list of questions to the White House to try to uncover how and why Flynn misled Pence about conversations he had with Russia's ambassador to the U.S."

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/319663-john-mccain-to-probe-white-house-on-flynn-lies-to-pence

MayBee said...

The election season was dire, but now things are insane.

Birkel said...

It was the GARDENER in the DRAWING ROOM with the CANDLESTICK.

Because capital letters and illogical asides are entertaining.

Nonapod said...

So WHY did Flynn lie to Pence and Priebus

I assume because what he did was in bad form, and since he obviously assumed the conversation wasn't being monitored (just pillow talk baby) he didn't feel the need to tell them he made any sort of assurances regarding sanctions or whatever. It gave him plausible deniability.

AJ Lynch said...

Orig Mike:

Good memory- I think he posted as Downtown Lad or some such. He thinks and posts like Ritmo.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"The election season was dire, but now things are insane."

Yeah and all you Trumpists thought once Trump became President, America would become "great again". The sane and rational White House just can't win against the evil Press.

Michael K said...

I would like to know why the Iran Deal is so important that the CIA would take out Flynn. I'm not at all sure he "lied."

Scooter Libby had a different recollection than Tim Russert and wound up in prison. There is good reason to believe that Russert was the one with the incorrect recollection.

But it was very important to get a scalp in the Bush White House and he would do.

There are now targets on Bannon and Kellyanne.

Trump should just publish the Iran papers and let the fur fly.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"I would like to know why the Iran Deal is so important that the CIA would take out Flynn. I'm not at all sure he "lied.""

Another unfounded comment. Rumor mongering.

BJM said...

Yawn...wake me when Trump is overthrown...otherwise I'm out.

AJ Lynch said...

Maybee:

The freakout meter would be ranked as follows from insane to just nutso:

MSM - insane
Average leftist loon [poster boy is Ritmo] - needs to go play in traffic during rush hour
Dem pol or Dem elected official - nutso

Matt said...

Let's have an investigation. If Trump can send a spokesmen out on political shows to tell us that there has definitely been voter fraud then the media can put out a story about Russian involvement with Trump. Let's investigate BOTH and find out what the heck is going on.

khesanh0802 said...

My impression is that Flynn did something he should have been smart enough not to do, it got exposed and he embarrassed his boss by lying about it. He deserved to be let go and if his judgement is that faulty everyone is better off.

The real problem, of course, is the opposition campaign within the various departments. If the opposition thinks they are safe I think they are being foolhardy. I suspect Bannon is a man who knows how to nourish a grudge.

Trump and his guys are in the midst of a learning period of how truly disloyal some of their employees are. You can't cure that overnight. It will take some research and planning before there can be revenge. I am quite sure there will be revenge. This is a four year term after all.

I suspect Obama of leaving behind some actions meant to make Trump's life difficult. As an example, the current deportation operation was planned and organized during Obama administration. Trump seems to have kept a pretty good PR lid on that because those being deported are largely felons or multiple offenders.

I think the best way to play this is go along with the various "investigations" for a couple of reasons. First, because if the investigators do their jobs they are going to expose many of the sources of information (I've got a little list" said the Lord High Executioner.) Second, because this is mostly inside baseball and will have a lot less impact on the average person than those in DC think. Third, it's a great opportunity for Trump to manage a "crisis" successfully - fire a guy, hire a new guy, move on- happens in business almost every day. Even Steve Jobs got fired from Apple once.

Michael K said...

"Trump and his guys are in the midst of a learning period of how truly disloyal some of their employees are."

Yes. They probably have no experience with this level of criminal opposition from the shadows. Not even the Mafia is this bold.


I don't respond to the trolls.

JAORE said...

IIRC - I have a headache and am too tired/sick/lazy to look it up - didn't candidate Obama contact the Iranians before he was elected? Didn't he lie about that only to be found out and didn't that receive a big - feh - from the press?

Oh I know, the Russkies hacked our election, although they didn't.

And the Iranians are on a path to peaceful use of harmless nuclear power, although the ain't.

SockPuppet#55 said...

I don't direct questions directly to trolls. I pose rhetorical questions. I don't converse with trolls.

n.n said...

Iran, maybe. The cover-up includes elective regime changes, immigration reform (e.g. forced refugee crises) from Ukraine, to Syria, to Libya, to Somalia, to Yemen, to Iraq, to Afghanistan, to Egypt, ... They even tried to disenfranchise Israelis. Russia became their target (a la Jews in the mine) through proximity to the abortion fields, intervention to stop the Obama-backed terrorists in the Middle East, and preventing yet another refugee crisis in Ukraine. The Left has waged social justice globally with a cause that demanded they influence our election, disenfranchise Americans, and continue to target Americans in a [class] diversity campaign. They must have made a deal with the Devil that requires them to follow a progressive path to a dysfunctional convergence. The threat to close or at least stop public finance of their abortion chambers, and Planned Parenthood, did not improve their orientation.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"IIRC - I have a headache and am too tired/sick/lazy to look it up - didn't candidate Obama contact the Iranians before he was elected? Didn't he lie about that only to be found out and didn't that receive a big - feh - from the press?"

Cite, or it's a fake story.

walter said...

Maybe talking about this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jun/24/khamenei-obama-letter

Bob Loblaw said...

Then go down the food chain. You may not be able to fire the lifetime civil service slugs, but you can determine who is going to be a problem and transfer them to a back office somewhere in a backwater office.

Civil service protections aren't written into the constitution. There's no point in having rules to prevent a "spoils system" if the bureaucracy is going to get involved in politics directly. What should probably happen is government employees become "at will" like everyone else, and people who undermine the president should be summarily fired.

SockPuppet#55 said...

Trump and associates have said numerous times they had no contact with Russia during the campaign. We now know they lied.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/02/donald-trump-cant-come-clean-on-russia-michael-flynn

"* Days after the election, Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov said in an interview that "there were contacts" between the Trump team and the Kremlin. He noted, "Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage." Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks immediately said the campaign had "no contact with Russian officials" before the election.

* At Trump's January 11 press conference, a reporter asked him, "Can you stand here today, once and for all, and say that no one connected to you or your campaign had any contact with Russia leading up to or during the presidential campaign?" Trump did not reply. But after the press conference ended and Trump was leaving, he did answer that query with a firm "no."

* On January 15, on Face the Nation, John Dickerson asked incoming Vice President Mike Pence, "Did any adviser or anybody in the Trump campaign have any contact with the Russians who were trying to meddle in the election?" Pence declared, "Of course not. And I think to suggest that is to give credence to some of these bizarre rumors that have swirled around the candidacy."

* On February 14, at the daily White House briefing, ABC News' Jonathan Karl asked press secretary Sean Spicer whether any Trump associates were in touch with the Russian government prior to the election. Spicer replied, "There's nothing that would conclude me that anything different has changed with respect to that time period." That contorted statement was clearly meant as a no.

The drift is clear. Whenever queried about this highly sensitive matter, Trump and his minions have said there were no contacts between anyone in his crew and the Putin regime during the 2016 campaign. This is a cover-up."

Bob Loblaw said...

I would add that the Turkish-style deep state we seem to have developed is probably the biggest threat to the US in generations.

Birkel said...

Leviathan is self-aware.

Chuck said...

Birkel, I will apologize to you right after Donald Trump apologizes to all of the following:

John McCain
Michelle Fields
Ted Cruz
Marco Rubio
George W. Bush
Dick Cheney
Donald Rumsfeld
Condoleezza Rice
Barack Obama
Tim O’Brien
Serge Kovaleski
Paul Ryan
Mitt Romney
Ben Sasse
Lindsey Graham
Nikki Haley
Rick Perry
John Kasich
Susana Martinez
Karl Rove
Scott Walker
Carly Fiorina
Brit Hume
Bill Kristol
Mark Thiessen
Chris Stirewalt
Dana Perino
Charles Krauthammer
Brent Bozell
Hugh Hewitt
Jonah Goldberg
Chief Justice John Roberts
U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel
U.S. District Judge James Robart
New Jersey Superior Court Judge Michele Fox
Tarla Makaeff
Alicia Machado

Birkel said...

Chuck, so called, you have no honor. You were wrong and reacted vulgarly. You can control yourself, one imagines.

You should be ashamed.

Chuck said...

Not with you, Birkel. You have personally attacked me and trolled me for months. I care about you so much less than you can imagine. I am not going to be lectured by you about honor or shame.

Go fuck yourself. Again.

walter said...

"try to be responsive to the post, don't make personal attacks on other commenters, bring some substance or humor to the conversation, and don't do that thing of putting in a lot of extra line breaks."

khesanh0802 said...

@sock puppet I know you are trying hard and it's clear to pretty much everyone that, for whatever reasons, there was some contact between some people associated-somehow-with the Trump campaign and the fearsome Russians (who so badly outmaneuvered Obama in Syria, the Crimea and eastern Ukraine). However you should read your examples more carefully. In example #1 the Ruski gives no dates, we can assume it was during the campaign, but that is not what he said. In example #2 we have a detached "no". Did it really have anything to do with the question? Maybe yes, maybe no. In example #3 Pence gets asked about dealing wth those who supposedly meddled with the election. Of course he says no because, to date no one has been positively identified with whatever "meddling" there might or might not have been. In example #4 that is, perhaps, one of the most mangled sentences you can find. It was not clearly meant as anything yet the reporter says it was a no because that's what he/she wants it to be. The lack of clarity in your examples doesn't help your argument.

If some of Trump's hangers on, or staff had contact with the Russians so what? If it makes you feel better about the defeat of the Democrat's horrendous candidate, good. The election is over. We will have to work with the Russians if we hope to accomplish anything at all regarding ISIS. What good does it do to alienate them? Right now they have to be laughing mightily about the childish behavior regarding them in the US. Fortunately, they are sophisticated enough to understand that it is all for domestic consumption and unfortunately, sophisticated enough also to know that the BS has a tendency to weaken Trump's position. Still this is only week three of a four year term.

Original Mike said...

@Chuck - Are personally aware of the insults Trump delivered to each of those people?

Dr Weevil said...

khesanh0802 (4:12pm):
It's worse than that. We only "know" that Trump lied about contacts with the Russians if we assume that Mother Jones is telling the truth and that the Russian they quote is also telling the truth. Apparently the left expects us to believe that the Russians are (a) utterly and dangerously hostile to the U.S., so much so that Trump would be a fool to trust them in any way, or even to speak to them, and at the same time (b) the Russians would never stoop to telling a simple lie to make an American president's life more difficult. Anyone who can't see the contradiction between those two beliefs is a fool.

Birkel said...

You are what I have claimed you are, so called Chuck.

Chuck said...

Original Mike said...
@Chuck - Are personally aware of the insults Trump delivered to each of those people?

"You could look it up."

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/16/books/l-you-could-look-it-up-529486.html

Kyzernick said...

Alicia Machado? Seriously, Chuck? Wow dude, you're really grasping at straws.

Original Mike said...

@Chuck - I'm not doubting you. I'm just thinking a little break might do you good.

Laraine said...

Why are the Dems so worried about the Russians? They are the Russians.

https://www.aleksandreia.com/2017/02/15/obama-administration-deep-state/

Dr Weevil said...

A little break would definitely do must of us good.

Chuck said...

Blogger Kyzernick said...
Alicia Machado? Seriously, Chuck? Wow dude, you're really grasping at straws.


Alicia Machado is a good one! A textbook Trump insult, with all the best elements:
a) It was personal, and nasty;
b) It was false;
c) It was an enraged, 3am tirade, and;
d) It was apparently inspired by Trump's dubious habit of reading weird alt-right websites.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/09/donald-trump/trump-early-morning-sex-tape-tweet/

http://www.snopes.com/alicia-machado-adult-star/



Thanks for asking!

Michael K said...

I am not going to be lectured by you about honor or shame.

Go fuck yourself. Again.


Chuck, thanks for reminding me why I skip your posts.

Chuck said...

So Congressional leadership is expected to get copies of the Flynn transcripts/intercepts. Colloquially called "The Gang of Eight." (Not to be confused with the Senate "Gang of Eight" on a proposed immigration compromise.)

Here's who they are, soon to be judging the Trump Administration:

United States House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence:
Devin Nunes (R): (Chair)
Adam Schiff (D): (Ranking member)
United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence:
Richard Burr (R): (Chair)
Mark Warner (D): (Vice Chairman)
Leadership in the United States House of Representatives:
Paul Ryan (R): (Speaker of the House)
Nancy Pelosi (D): (Minority leader)
Leadership in the United States Senate:
Mitch McConnell (R): (Majority leader)
Chuck Schumer (D): (Minority leader)


hombre said...

SockPuppet: "... Whenever queried about this highly sensitive matter, ...."

Highly sensitive why? Because the Democrats and the mediaswine have declared war on Russia.

Maybe the anti-Trump's and the Democrats should be concerned about intelligence personnel illegally leaking information to newspapers for political purposes. Info undoubtedly gained in their official capacity, probably by wiretapping.

But why would Democrats be concerned about illegality? Of course they are more accustomed to the Obama administration illegally concealing information rather than disclosing it.

hombre said...

It might be time to take a look at sedition laws. They still exist, don't they?

SockPuppet#55 said...

"But why would Democrats be concerned about illegality? Of course they are more accustomed to the Obama administration illegally concealing information rather than disclosing it."

Why aren't you concerned about a president who possibly has been compromised by Russia? Why aren't you demanding to see Trump's taxes?

SockPuppet#55 said...

The leakers are the patriots here. Without them this all would be buried.

Chuck said...

hombre said...
SockPuppet: "... Whenever queried about this highly sensitive matter, ...."
Highly sensitive why? Because the Democrats and the mediaswine have declared war on Russia.
Maybe the anti-Trump's and the Democrats should be concerned about intelligence personnel illegally leaking information to newspapers for political purposes. Info undoubtedly gained in their official capacity, probably by wiretapping.


"Wiretapping," right. With a warrant from a FISA court.

Original Mike said...

"Why aren't you concerned about a president who possibly has been compromised by Russia?"

Against my better judgement, I actually have been trying to understand your argument. "Compromised" means Trump and Russia leaked DNC and Podesta emails to swing the election?

narciso said...

Allegedly chuck, no names attached to the story, looks like they are padding the dingy dossier

SockPuppet#55 said...

Sedition says Hombre. I say let's think about treason.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/319560-dem-rep-did-flynn-commit-treason

Rep. Seth Moulton (D-Mass.) on Tuesday said that if members of the Trump administration or campaign have been "conspiring" with Russia, "that's the very definition of treason."

“If members of the administration are essentially conspiring with Russia – either through the [2016 presidential] campaign earlier or now in the administration itself – I mean, look, Wolf, that’s the very definition of treason,” Moulton told host Wolf Blitzer.

“This is a very, very serious affair. The definition of treason is putting our enemy’s interests ahead of our own. That’s what the definition is,” he continued."

SockPuppet#55 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SockPuppet#55 said...

Definition of compromised by the Russians

Original Mike said...

Sorry, Sock, I ain't reading that. State your charge in a (short) paragraph.

SockPuppet#55 said...

Original Mi,e,
You're not reading that? Why ever not? No, if you're too lazy to do the work, I won't waste my time on you.

hombre said...

@SockPuppet: Discussion of Ideological Subversion practiced by the USSR.
http://thedeclination.com/ideological-subversion/

Why worry about "Kompromise" when you and your co-circle jerkers have either been complicit in, or victimised by, this practice?

Birkel said...

Chuck, so called, wants Trump to apologize to Bill Kristol.

Bill Kristol wants Leviathan to perform a coup.

Chuck claims to be a conservative and supports Bill Kristol who supports a coup.

Original Mike said...

So you have no specific charge; I'm supposed to read a Wikipedia article titled " Kompromat". I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I actually thought you might have a thread of an argument.

Birkel said...

@ hombre

You misspelled actively embraced.

:-)

hombre said...

Blogger SockPuppet#55 said...
'Sedition says Hombre. I say let's think about treason.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/319560-dem-rep-did-flynn-commit-treason

Rep. Seth Moulton (D-Mass.) on Tuesday said that if members of the Trump administration or campaign have been "conspiring" with Russia, "that's the very definition of treason."'

Moulton is evidently as ignorant as you are. Oh, I forgot. Since Hillary's "reset" didn't work and she lost the election, Democrats and the leftmediaswine think we are at war with Russia.

hombre said...

Just an after thought, Sock. The likelihood of Flynn being blackmailed was minimal. He didn't do anything illegal.

On the other hand, the mediaswine recipients of material illegally disclosed by intelligence personnel now have quite a hammer over those sleazebags, don't they?

But never mind. Journalists are eminently trustworthy, aren't they?

SockPuppet#55 said...

"He didn't do anything illegal."

So why did he lie about it then? If Flynn did nothing illegal he should've admitted it.

Original Mike said...

Once more, Sock. What do you think Trump did?

Angel-Dyne said...

Birkel: Chuck, so called, wants Trump to apologize to Bill Kristol.

Bill Kristol wants Leviathan to perform a coup.

Chuck claims to be a conservative and supports Bill Kristol who supports a coup.


Bill Kristol has also publicly called for replacing working-class whites with immigrants because they're useless übermenschen.

The man is a complete and utter PoS. The idea that anyone owes so vile an individual an apology for anything is...well, that's our Chuck for you.

(As for that list, how would a "who insulted whom first" exercise shake out?

SockPuppet#55 said...

Original Mike
I suspect Trump owes a lot of money to some people in Russia, or he was caught in a very compromising situation that could ruin him or cause him to be charged with some crime in the US and promised to do the bidding of Putin in exchange for their silence or some other favor, like the lifting of sanctions. Or he simply engaged in a quid pro quo, Russia helped make him the US president and he in exchange promised the dropping of sanctions and who knows what else. We won't know for sure until the investigations are over. There is way too much smoke for there to be no fire. No body could love Putin that much.

Big Mike said...

There is way too much smoke for there to be no fire.

You know, SockPuppet, I was saying that very thing about the claim that there is only a negligible number of ineligible people voting in the national election.

SockPuppet#55 said...

OM,

"How can Trump and his crew concede that they were hobnobbing with a foreign government that was waging political warfare against the United States? The "full and complete debrief" that Cillizza advocates would require Trump to acknowledge that he and his team have covered up these contacts and explain why. This "full and complete debrief" could well show that Trump's camp cozied up to a repressive government that was seeking to destabilize US politics to help Trump. It could reveal that Trump associates directly or indirectly encouraged Putin's attack on the 2016 election.

Trump would lose all legitimacy as president were he to admit that anything of this sort transpired. There are some deeds that cannot be acknowledged. Expecting Trump and his lieutenants to confess that his campaign or business associates were networking with the Kremlin or Russian intelligence is not realistic—especially after their months of denial. (Trump also for months refused to accept the US intelligence assessment that Russia was behind the hacking and leaking aimed at Democratic targets, and when he finally bent on this point, he downplayed Moscow's meddling in the election.) Trump cannot continue to present himself as the triumphant winner of a fair election if it turns out his own people were palling around with Moscow."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/02/donald-trump-cant-come-clean-on-russia-michael-flynn

Angel-Dyne said...

Original Mike: Once more, Sock. What do you think Trump did?

Sock: I suspect Trump owes a lot of money to some people in Russia, or he was caught in a very compromising situation that could ruin him or cause him to be charged with some crime...

Lol. O-Mike, you didn't really expect Sock to betray any knowledge of anything beyond the Dem/MSM gossip-mongering that's been lighting up libtard venues, did you?

SockPuppet#55 said...

More, OM. Don't be lazy. Read.

"Fallon did not directly accuse the Trump campaign of it, but he raised the question of whether Flynn had talked to Russia about the cyberattacks on the Clinton campaign (the Trump campaign has unequivocally denied coordinating with Russia on the cyberattacks, and no credible evidence has surfaced to suggest that it did). Regardless, Fallon argued, the issue merits investigation.

“The reason that we can't give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt with all this is because all these contacts between representatives of his campaign and the Russian government were happening while Trump was displaying a troubling pattern of speaking out on Putin's behalf on any number of issues that are completely out of alignment with U.S. foreign policy,” Fallon said. “And also, if there was nothing to these interactions, if they were completely innocent and benign, why did the Trump campaign lie about them?”"

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/brian-fallon-responds-trump-clinton-russia-235044

Original Mike said...

OK, then. A real charge.

At this point Trump is President of the United States and has secret service protection for the rest of his life so he could ignore anybody to whom he owes money.

He committed a crime that Putin knows about but our intelligence community (and thus the NYT, and thus us) doesn't? Really?

He sold his soul for the lifting of sanctions? Trump's not that bad of a negogiater.

"Russia helped make him the US president..."
How? By publishing John Podesta's emails with Neera Tanden? Absurd.

But at least I know what you're claiming.



SockPuppet#55 said...
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SockPuppet#55 said...

Angel-dumb. Until the investigations are complete and made public, it would be ridiculous to say with certainty what Trump was up to, but the evidence is mounting it was no good. Now go jump back into your slimy pond.

Breezy said...

There is no evidence, only conjecture. And not objective conjecture, at that, IMHO.

But a grand time was had by all.

Birkel said...

The allegations are mounting.
The evidence is - oddly - unavailable.

SockPuppet#55 said...

No, there is evidence. It hasn't been published yet. Wait until after the investigation results are made public.

Birkel said...

There is no evidence.

(This form of argumentation is fun and easy!)

Original Mike said...

"No, there is evidence. It hasn't been published yet."

But you're in the know.

"Wait until after the investigation results are made public."

Good advice. Well, we'll be here.

SockPuppet#55 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

Out of respect for Meade and Althouse, we should leave this thread.

SockPuppet#55 said...

OM,
I do know this. There is evidence that Flynn spoke to the Russian Ambassador about lifting sanctions on the same day as Obama placed them. Flynn wouldn't have lied about doing so if there wouldn't have been evidence. That evidence was presented to Trump three weeks ago. Nothing would've been done until it was leaked and made public. That conversation took place. There is more evidence about other dealings with the Russians, be patient, it will out come out eventually. In the meantime you folks can wish away the bad leakers and the Press who will expose Trump. But they won't go away and they won't be silenced.

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