February 22, 2017

"So many people think you have to look like a man, play like a man to get respect. I was the opposite."

"I was proud to a be a woman, and it didn’t fit well in that culture," said Candice Wiggins, speaking about the culture within the Women's National Basketball Association. She's abandoning her stellar career 2 years early, because of her "mental state." She says she was bullied for her femininity and heterosexuality.
"I didn’t like the culture inside the WNBA, and without revealing too much, it was toxic for me. … My spirit was being broken.... Me being heterosexual and straight, and being vocal in my identity as a straight woman was huge,” Wiggins said. “I would say 98 percent of the women in the WNBA are gay women. It was a conformist type of place. There was a whole different set of rules they (the other players) could apply..... People were deliberately trying to hurt me all of the time. I had never been called the B-word so many times in my life than I was in my rookie season. I’d never been thrown to the ground so much. The message was: ‘We want you to know we don’t like you.’... It comes to a point where you get compared so much to the men, you come to mirror the men,’ she said. “So many people think you have to look like a man, play like a man to get respect. I was the opposite.... There were horrible things happening to me every day...."
I don't know how much of that to believe. I don't understand the nature of the razzing that goes on behind the scenes in sports, whether Wiggins was unusually sensitive or arrogant, and what sexual orientation had to do with it. The other women are not telling there side of the story, so I feel compelled to imagine it.

If you read the story at the link, you'll see that Wiggins is writing a book, so she has a motive to stir up interest in her story. I'm interested in seeing how well this angle plays — this notion that she had more femininity than those other ladies and that there's something especially brutal about lesbians.

There's also the problem that the WNBA is just not popular, and that's what's really bothering Wiggins, who said: "Nobody cares about the WNBA. Viewership is minimal. Ticket sales are very low. They give away tickets and people don’t come to the game." And she's switching over to beach volleyball —where she sees a "celebration of women and the female body as feminine" — which people do seem to like to watch (perhaps because we only watch it every 4 years when the Summer Olympics come around).

59 comments:

rhhardin said...

Costumes are everything in women's sports.

David Begley said...

Exactly. Nobody cares about the WNBA.

viator said...

The lesbian mafia, as some people call it. It exists in other places besides the NBA.

tola'at sfarim said...

But everyone cares abt Uber employees

Wilbur said...

I suspect a good number of WNBA players are in a perpetual state of rage because they don't get any respect in their status of professional basketball players.

But they're just not very good, compared to males. They could not compete with a strong boys high school team.

I love watching many women's sports - golf, softball, soccer, volleyball, et alia. But watching basketball is dreadful. It's just the reality of the situation.

Michael K said...

The WNBA has always been about tall lesbians. I've wondered why anyone goes to games.

Women's golf is not as obvious although the fans are heavily gay.

David said...

"I don't understand the nature of the razzing that goes on behind the scenes in sports . . . "

If true, this is way beyond razzing. High level athletes do play out dominance games, and establish a hierarchy. But usually those lower on the dominance ladder can earn respect and maintain self respect as a consequence. This is certainly true in male team sports. If you try to produce to the best of your ability and can thereby help the team in some way (even if only as practice fodder) you can gain respect. Think "Rudy" for a sentimentalized version.

This story is quite different. iIt involves a group against a single individual, always a problem on any kind of team, and made worse here by the basis of classification.

Where were the coaches? Team management? Team leaders, if they have any?

Anyway, unsurprisingly, it turns out that gays can be as harassing and vicious to those unlike themselves as any other group. And in this case (if true) even more so.

dbp said...

It is not just beach volleyball or the WNBA. When I was watching the Olympics last Summer, I noticed that generally speaking; both the men and the women in both kinds of volleyball were more attractive than the men and women basketball players.

I gave it a lot of thought at the time, probably because those two sports were what was served up at the times I could watch, but I don't understand why volleyball players are more attractive. Clearly though, to me, they are.

Oso Negro said...

So...the WNBA is filled with hateful lesbians! Really, who could have guessed. And these are just the apex basketball lesbians, there are 349 women's basketball programs in NCAA Div 1 alone. And then there are the countless girl's high school basketball programs, which may well be grooming programs for lesbians. I think that Milo interviewing Ms. Wiggins would be an interesting interview.

PB said...

98 percent of the WNBA players are lesbian? that brings up interesting questions. Is lesbianism linked to athletic ability? Or is athletic ability in women a characteristic that reduces their attractiveness to the men and thus leaves woman athletes only women for intimate relationships?

Given they haven't found a "gay gene" (and likely won't) and given the human desire to care for someone and be cared in return, the simplest explanation for homosexuality is merely personal choice based on available opportunity. Not that there's anything wrong with it as I support individual freedom and liberty, but if it were a gene, wouldn't it have been naturally selected out of the species long ago?

traditionalguy said...

The problem is that 100% of their Female coaches doing College recruiting go for the easiest to seduce ones. You want a scholarship, you play by the coach's rules for 4 years...it's in Title 9.

Tommy Duncan said...

The WNBA is basically a community service / social justice project of the NBA. The NBA pays the bills to allow it to exist. The WNBA lives in the shadows.

Wilbur said: But they're just not very good, compared to males. They could not compete with a strong boys high school team.

A strong boy's high school team would go undefeated in the WNBA. My son's high school team started 5 guys who could dunk. At that time there was one woman in the WNBA who could (on a good night) dunk.

Michael K said...

Or is athletic ability in women a characteristic that reduces their attractiveness to the men and thus leaves woman athletes only women for intimate relationships?

No, women who want to play competitive sports probably have an increased number of lesbians because the sports attraction tends to be more a male phenomenon. Title IX has been interpreted by leftist bureaucrats as requiring equal numbers of male and female participants. This policy has devastated men's minor sports like wrestling and rowing.

Women are just not as interested in competitive sports as men. This fact is a source of endless frustration for the "sexes are exactly alike" crowd and a bonanza for lesbians.

The latest amusing trend is the appearance of trans sexuals in women's sports like cycling.

Laslo Spatula said...

Authentic WNBA locker room dialogue...

"Candice, after the game we're going up to Tara's hotel room and putting giant rubber cocks up each other's asses. Are you coming?"

"No... Thanks but no thanks."

"But they're BIG rubber cocks. Because we're BIG girls. BIG girls putting rubber cocks up each other's asses."

"I think I'm just going to have some green tea and read."

""Oh -- so you think you're better than us? Because you're straight, is that it?"

"No! I just don't care to be putting big rubber cocks up girls' asses, that's all."

"You know we all think you're a Bitch, right?"

"Really? Because I don't like putting big rubber cocks up girls' asses?"

"Well, that, and then you don't scissor with the other teammates."

"I'm just not a 'scissors' girl, I guess..."

"You don't scissor, and you don't put big rubber cocks up other girls' asses: you ARE a Bitch."

"I'm just a straight girl who likes some quiet time after a game. People shouldn't hate me for that."

"It's Bitches like you that give us a bad name. Bitch."

"Huh?"

"Young girls look up to us. Across America there are tall ungainly girls who DREAM of being professional basketball players and putting big rubber cocks up other girls' asses."

"Maybe there are some young tall girls that just want to play basketball. Without the other stuff."

"If that's the case they should just stick to women's soccer."

"Women's soccer?"

"I was making a joke, Bitch. Everyone know the girls in women's soccer like to put big rubber cocks up girls' asses."

"What sport SHOULD a straight girl play, then?"

"Well, volleyball and softball are out. So is track-and-field. Now that I think about it, I think you straight girls are just shit-out-of-luck."

"Okay... I guess I'll see you on the team bus in the morning..."

"Don't be taking any of the comfy seats: us other girls' asses are going to be SORE..."

I am Laslo.

C Hayes said...

I have a close family member who played women's softball in the late 1980's at a large eastern state school. She quit after 1.5 seasons (and lost her partial scholarship) because of the toxic culture. Her situation sounded very similar to what this basketball player is describing. I don't know this basketball player, but I don't think her experience is uncommon, unfortunately.

John said...

Anyway, unsurprisingly, it turns out that gays can be as harassing and vicious to those unlike themselves as any other group. And in this case (if true) even more so.

Domestic violence and abuse occurs at about the same rate in lesbian couples as in heterosexual couples.

Also among gay male couples.

John Henry

Curious George said...

This about sums it up.

bagoh20 said...

It's hard to get sexier than a woman who is both athletic and feminine like some of the tennis pros and pole dancers.

virgil xenophon said...

Yes, the Lesbian Mafia is rampant in womens pro tennis also. And like Michael K, above, says, w're going t o have real fun with the transexual thing. Just was reading case of a female-to-male trans wrestler in the girls 110lb class who is taking testosterone. She KILLED all her opponents. State rules say one has to compete in sex on one's birth certificate, so rules forbid her competing in boys Div. Her opponent in finals forfeited rather than face "her." Princess Xena "Man Warrior" LOL.

Curious George said...

Now that girls can be boys and boys can be girls, the WNBA will fill up with NBA D-Leaguers. Sadly, no one watches that either.

Unknown said...

What's WNBA?

PB said...

It's a mixed-up, muddled-up world except for Lola.

Humperdink said...

They play with smaller ball .... and smaller audience. Who is surprised?

holdfast said...

Sounds like the US Navy Lesbian Mafia.

But at least the WNBA doesn't crash $billion warships.

Jack Wayne said...

The tell is that the sports shows completely ignored the stories. The print media carried the story. But not the sports talk shows.

Rick said...

Tommy Duncan said...
A strong boy's high school team would go undefeated in the WNBA.

Wilbur said...
I love watching many women's sports - golf, softball, soccer, volleyball, et alia. But watching basketball is dreadful. It's just the reality of the situation.


Basketball's problem is different than other sports. While it's true the highest level of women cannot compete with lesser ranks of men in basketball that is also true of other sports including soccer.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/6072/australias-national-womens-soccer-team-lose-7-0-amanda-prestigiacomo#exit-modal

https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/3ceeih/the_us_mens_u17_soccer_team_played_the_uswnt/

The problem in basketball is that the lack of upper body strength means shooting (especially long range) occurs from a lower position which is easier to block. The result is that the game is not just played at a lower level but is visually completely different. It's harder to judge those other sports because the differences in play are not so visually striking and thus the differences in play are somewhat hidden when playing against women.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said... I don't understand the nature of the razzing that goes on behind the scenes in sports, whether Wiggins was unusually sensitive or arrogant, and what sexual orientation had to do with it. The other women are not telling there side of the story, so I feel compelled to imagine it.

Pardon me, ma'am, but shouldn't you say that even if this individual's subjective experience isn't based in objective reality (if she wasn't really bullied, if she is in fact oversensitive) the fact that she FEELS this says something important and needs to be addressed by the WNBA?
That was your position about minority students who felt microaggressed-against on campus, remember? Lots of commenters questioned the validity of their complaints, and you made it very clear that the (objective) validity wasn't the point--the point was that those in the minority felt a certain way and that fact needed to be addressed.
From the description you give here this former-player is a minority in the WNBA. Shouldn't we focus on what the WNBA can do to make sure no one like her feels the things she felt--shouldn't that be the issue in this case, too?

mockturtle said...

"Oh -- so you think you're better than us? Because you're straight, is that it?"

Laslo understands tyranny. And female tyranny is the cruelest of all.

Static Ping said...

Ann, I don't blame you for being skeptical. It pays to be a victim these days. That said, I would not be the least bit surprised if this is true. Sports locker rooms vary a great deal from Kumbaya friend fests to impersonal business environments to toxic cesspits where you wouldn't be surprised if it ended in a homicide.

It is also said that low-stake endeavors often result in high-stake environments - there is nothing worth fighting over more than nothing, especially for people with nothing better to do - and the WNBA is about as low-stake as professional sports gets. It's a league that cannot go bankrupt no matter how lousy it is.

Bruce Hayden said...

One datapoint from one Lesbian I know. She was a tomboy growing up, but didn't grow out of it when she hit puberty. Her primary interest in high school, then academics. No time for guys. Then, when she got to a big state university, the light went off - of course she wasn't interested in guys, since she was gay. And her friends seemed to have had similar experiences, sports in high school, putting on a bunch of weight in their middle years, but still being strong competitors when playing softball.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

C Hayes said: I have a close family member who played women's softball in the late 1980's at a large eastern state school. She quit after 1.5 seasons (and lost her partial scholarship) because of the toxic culture.

This is my daughter's exact experience as well. She got several scholarships to a prestigious private university. One of which was for softball. As a star athlete in high school she excelled in Basketball, Volleyball and Softball pitching (she could throw a mean, accurate and fast softball) while maintaining a 4.0 grade average. So she was really excited to be able to not only go to this really good university but to be able to play on the soft ball team.

However.....once there the environment was toxic. Not only was she odd person out on the team because she is decidedly not in the least lesbian, people in the school whom she didn't even know supposed she was a "dike" and her ability to make relationships with the cute young men on campus was pretty much nil. They assumed her sexuality and she was shunned.

Stereotyping is cruel.

After the first year, she didn't renew the scholarship and ceased to be on the team. Her social life greatly improved and we tightened our belts to make up the difference. I was a single mother at the time so that was a hard blow financially but a good decision for her personally.

She ended up graduating Phi Beta Kappa...made some great friends...had a good social life, went on to a career that involved sports and universities in an administrative capacity. She still participates in athletic endeavors (golf, marathons) and met her husband during a charity mixed group golf tournament where she impressed him with her abilities (/wink wink nudge nudge)....and I now have two lovely grandchildren both of whom also show promising athletic ability :-)

Too bad though. She would have been a great addition to the uni's softball team. Their loss.

Fernandinande said...

Unknown said...
What's WNBA?


It's a group which occasionally gets mentioned in blogs and the fake news for reasons unrelated to the name which is an acronym for Wellington North Badminton Association.

Unknown said...

For a slightly more extreme version, look up Moira Greyland, who is Marion Zimmer Bradley's daughter.

Her dad apparently used to rape her. And she says, "I preferred spending time with him: at least he only raped me." Her mother was a lesbian who went in for torture, and pimped her out as a young girl to her "friends."

For a small taste, read about Moira here.

--Vance

Static Ping said...

Laslo: "Well, volleyball and softball are out. So is track-and-field. Now that I think about it, I think you straight girls are just shit-out-of-luck."

No, no, no. You straight girls are boned. This is especially true since "shit-out" is something associated with the fictional lesbian activity. The hotel maid staff is not going to be pleased.

This could be followed up with a variation "up your nose with a rubber hose" with the obvious substitution(s).

I am... in need of therapy.

Birches said...

Mean Girls is real.

And there is plenty of evidence that the WNBA is not a good environment. Two stars have accused each other of domestic abuse, coaches have turned players (wait, no, helped them realize their true sexuality), etc. Wiggins also said that the European leagues were great. I would imagine there are plenty of lesbians there too. It is the WNBA lesbians that is the problem.

mockturtle said...

This is very anecdotal but: A Lesbian friend and co-worker took me to a Lesbian bar in Seattle once at my request. Expecting to see happy women having fun, I was disturbed to see a lot of open hostility among the patrons toward each other as well as mean drunkenness and genuine animosity. This may have been an aberration. [My co-worker and her partner did not frequent Lesbian bars]. While I know the bar scene does not represent Lesbian couples, I do know that domestic abuse is at least as prevalent, perhaps more so, than in straight relationships and more by far than among gay men.

shake-and-bake said...

"...[their] side of the story," not "there." Incorrect usage on this blog is jarring.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Rick,
"The problem in basketball is that the lack of upper body strength means shooting (especially long range) occurs from a lower position which is easier to block. The result is that the game is not just played at a lower level but is visually completely different."

That upper body strength issue also eliminates some of the passing that men's players can do.

Rockport Conservative said...

I only know from the personal experience of a grand niece who was awarded a college softball scholarship. She had the same problems, she left the program, she left college and hasn't gone back. She played all through highschool and it never occurred to her their would be sexual overtures and even meaness towards her in college. I would think this woman would have known this by the time she was drafted into the WNBA. But maybe not.

Rockport Conservative said...

Oops, should have read and proofed, there not their in third line. No grammar police need apply.

hstad said...

Sorry AA, beach volleyball in California is on all the time and just doesn't show up "every 4 years" as you stated. Probably the same in Florida where the weather is accommodative.

Kevin said...

You wrote this post as a big, wet kiss to Laslo, didn't you?

Skippy Tisdale said...

My sister is a lesbian and she and her friends took me to a lesbian bar in Decatur, GA. There was a long line for the restrooms (all single occupancy). My line was moving very slowly as whoever was in the john was taking forever. Eventually, a young, really cute, bi-fem near the front of the line kicked the door with enough force that it popped open.

Out came a very butch woman, holding her pants up who surveyed the line and seeing that I was the only male in it came up to me indicating that she was going to kick my ass. I told her it wasn't me and she said that if it wasn't, then I would at least know who kicked the door open. Well, I'm not ratting out a young, really cute, bi-fem, so I told her that I honestly didn't know but that it wasn't me because I wouldn't do something like that.

She backed down, but it was clear to me that I wanted to leave, so I went back to my sister and her friends, told them what had happened and that I was going to walk home. As I was leaving, the young, really cute, bi-fem came up to me and apologized. She seemed truly sincere, so I accepted her apology and left.

It's a shame the young, really cute, bi-fem caused this to happen, because the first half of bi-fem is bi and I really think I would have had a shot at her.

I also accompanied my sister and friends to a gay men's bar and witnessed nothing like that. In fact two women there came up and asked me to dance. I declined, but in hindsight I wish I hadn't, as both of them were cute too.

mockturtle said...

I was in a few gay men's bars in San Francisco [at least one purely by accident] and the atmosphere was fun and casual, very different from the lesbian bar. Again, not a really fair sampling. Just saying that dikes seem to have attitude issues that are enhanced by heavy alcohol use.

Big Mike said...

Wait! What? You mean lesbians behave like mean girls their whole lives? Who knew?

As to WNBA, when a woman's pro team could not expect to defeat a moderately good college male team -- say a team capable of getting into the round of 16 in March Madness -- then there's not much reason to watch them play, is there?

southcentralpa said...

I knew a woman who had the same experience playing rugby at a Seven Sisters school. She eventually quit, too ...

SukieTawdry said...

So, what's the deal? Only lesbians can play basketball well or only lesbians want to play?

Edmund said...

Not that there's anything wrong with it as I support individual freedom and liberty, but if it were a gene, wouldn't it have been naturally selected out of the species long ago?

No. Having some males around that help the tribe and don't compete for mates is useful for group survival. The women probablt didn't have a choice in a tribal society.

Bobby Dupea said...

Domestic violence is highest with lesbian couples. They are the most violent of all families. Look it up.

It's somewhat astonishing to me that AA hasn't noticed the preponderance of lesbian coaches in Div I athletics, and the corruption of the various sports by the blackout on RealSpeak.

Wiggins is the daughter of Alan Wiggins,Tony Gwynn's set-up man with the Padres. (Wiggins was a 2nd baseman and ran like the wind.) She's not a naive young person who was overwhelmed by strangeness of professional sports.

All this self-censoring is destroying the value of words. The feminists are winning, and all of personal life is now political.

Bobby Dupea said...

The problem with the WNBA is not that they can't beat an average male college team, Big Mike. The problem with the WNBA is that they can't beat high school boys, as has been noted repeatedly above.

They can't play basketball, iow. They are better than a good 9th grade boys team (which will have at least one guy who plays above the rim), perhaps. The 9th graders in my town don't play at the Garden. How about yours?

For our next discussion, we can discuss fat butch girls with an instagram account making Rangers and SEALS.

This stuff has reach peak idiocy.

jeff said...

WNBA was pretty good for a short time. If you watch women's NCAA tournament basketball, you see in the elite teams solid team basketball, play calling, ball movement and set plays. A different style than mens, for sure, but still quite good. The problem is the WNBA expanded so that the pipeline of premium players is not nearly large enough to stock all the teams.....so mediocre basketball that no one watches.

Dan Hossley said...

WNBA is boring because the players aren't very good basketball players. They may be good women's basketball players, but they aren't very good basketball players. The average average college men's team would beat their best. Is it any wonder that people aren't watching?

Eugene Podrazik said...

The stupidity of all of this is the fact that this is all entertainment. Which means your paycheck is predicated on putting asses into seats. In the theater, at the sports arena. So, if you diss your fans with poor performances, with dissing the national anthem--big problem with the NFL these days, your hurting your paycheck.

Or, if you let things like sexual preference get in the way, you'll detract from the things you should be doing to get paying customers into your arena. Get it?

zefal said...

When can we expect a response to HoodlumDoodlum, Ann?

Douglas said...

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I do watch women's beach volleyball from time to time, but I never watch the WNBA. Does that make me a bad person?

Valentine Smith said...

Truth is an average high school boys basketball team would kick the shit out of any women's "pro" basketball team.

And lesbianism is a cult. Hence any "discrepant" presence deviating from the "norm" in a closed system must be destroyed.

JCC said...

@ John

"Domestic violence and abuse occurs at about the same rate in lesbian couples as in heterosexual couples."

I disagree. And so do 2 recent studies. "21.5 percent of men and 35.4 percent of women living with a same-sex partner experienced intimate-partner physical violence in their lifetimes, compared with 7.1 percent and 20.4 percent for men and women" from one.
http://www.advocate.com/crime/2014/09/04/2-studies-prove-domestic-violence-lgbt-issue

Anyway, if you have never been to either a WNBA game or even a college women's basketball game, what you can expect is an "R" rated experience of lesbian couples agrressively engaging in public displays of fondling and more. In addition, there is an undertone of serious anti-hetero being shoved in your face. It's as if being intentionally rude and vulgar is the standard of conduct. It reminds me of nothing so much as the women's marches behavior we have seen recently.

My wife and I quit attending both WNBA and women's college basketball because of the loutish, obnoxious environment. Which we assume was the intent of the over-the-top behavior in the stands.

Darcy said...

Anyway, unsurprisingly, it turns out that gays can be as harassing and vicious to those unlike themselves as any other group. And in this case (if true) even more so.

It is true. And lesbians don't trust or much like bi-women. "Pick a side."

Gay men are so much more welcoming and seemingly unthreatened by beautiful women. Fascinating.

Rich Rostrom said...

PB said... if it were a gene, wouldn't it have been naturally selected out of the species long ago?

Evolution is not a tight filter. Homosexual tendencies don't prevent reproduction - especially in women, who just have to submit to being ____ed, whether they enjoy it or not. Many homosexual males can get it up to beget a few children (Oscar Wilde had two).


If there are genes associated with homosexual tendencies, almost certainly there are several different such traits, and they are all rare and recessive, not dominant. And may only produce actual homosexual behavior in rare combinations, or in association with unusual environmental conditions. For instance, what if a trait inherited from the father in combination with the mother having another trait which has prenatal effects caused male homosexuality in a small percentage of occurrences?

How much evolutionary pressure would there be on the two traits involved? What if those traits were advantageous if not together? Almost none.