February 12, 2017

Did Al Franken call Donald Trump a terrorist?

On "State of the Union" today, Al Franken said:
The whole point of terror is to make you afraid. I think that Trump and his group are trying to make Americans more afraid. I think that's part of how they got elected: Just make us more afraid.
The host Jake Tapper immediately called him on that:
You're accusing the president -- president of terrorism by making -- by scaring people?
That challenged Franken, but it also helped him, because it gave Franken a chance to deny the meaning that was pretty obviously there. He took advantage of the opportunity:
FRANKEN: Just because the purpose of terrorism is to make you afraid and the president has tried to make people afraid doesn't mean he's involved with...

TAPPER: Right. OK. I just wanted to define the language. That's all.
Notice how Franken didn't even have to stumble his way to a conclusion of that sentence. Tapper talked over him to accept that the implication had been disavowed even before Franken had completed his explanation. I wonder if some Trump supporter — say, Kellyanne Conway — had lobbed a similar insinuation, he would have let her out of the jam so easily. Then again, it was Tapper who translated the implication into clear speech in the first place. But as I said above, I think that translation helped Franken, because I had already scribbled a note to myself to blog about Franken's insinuation, and I think if Tapper had just let it go without examination, Franken would have been in a much more vulnerable position.

Here's the precise clip. Judge for yourself.



Did Tapper give Franken a friendly assist?
 
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146 comments:

SockPuppet#55 said...

Maybe Franken "was only kidding", just like when Trump called Obama the "Founder of ISIS".

mockturtle said...

None of the above. He was clearly and intentionally giving Franken a pass.

Amexpat said...

Al Franken has lost whatever wit he once had. One would think that with all of his media experience he'd be sharp and dynamic when speaking in public. Instead, he's boring and mealy mouth in interviews.

HT said...

You left something out, though. FRANKEN: “I think that’s part of how they got elected.” Which is without a doubt true. Does that mean I think Trump is a terrorist? No. As I’ve said before, it means I think he is a populist demagogue. Is that what Franken thinks and means as well? Maybe, maybe not, Tapper asked him, stupidly, if it meant he thought he was a terrorist. There are many who use fear. Your poll does not have enough options.

stever said...

Did you let Jake know you blogged about him?

cronus titan said...

The question is whether Franken called Trump a terrorist.

Yes, he did. Tapper tried to give him an out, and all Franken really said is that he tries to make people afraid (meeting Franken's definition of terrorism), just not accusing him of being part of organized terrorist groups.

The left has become completely unhinged and ridiculous. That may play to their hard-core base who hate but they will have face difficulties in recovering. Trump is no Reagan (at least not yet) but the Democrats over-wrought rhetoric against him, e.g., everyone is going to die in nuclear war, lead to a 49 state sweep in 1984. They may be headed toward that path unless they can exercise some discipline and show they are a viable alternative.

Virgil Hilts said...

Agree with lot of sentiment in prior post "Tapper is great and tries to play straight down the middle... (Maybee)." He's a lot like AA! Tapper [Althouse] is not perfect but if 90% of our top journalists [bloggers] had Tapper's [Althouse's] sense of fairness and integrity, this country would be a lot less partitioned and in much better shape.

traditionalguy said...

Franken is still stuck on stupid using the whole Obama NewSpeak which claimed that calling Muslim Jihad terrorist attacks terrorists plays into their hands. In other words, by ignoring them, we make them go away.

Franken has caught Hillary's brain disease.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"The left has become completely unhinged and ridiculous."

No more so than the right wearing teabags on their hats at those tea party rallies

Sebastian said...

"I wonder if some Trump supporter — say, Kellyanne Conway — had lobbed a similar insinuation, he would have let her out of the jam so easily." Oh, no! Not back to faux wonderment! Next, you'll "wonder" if SNL will ever be as funny about Spicer as they were about Earnest and Harf, or whether Tapper will do a hard-hitting interview with Nordstrom about the Ivanka business, or -- well, so many things to "wonder" about.

Comanche Voter said...

Franken wasn't much of a success as a comedian on SNL. But he makes a hell of a comedian as a US Senator.

Curious George said...

"Amexpat said...
Al Franken has lost whatever wit he once had. One would think that with all of his media experience he'd be sharp and dynamic when speaking in public. Instead, he's boring and mealy mouth in interviews."

Media experience? His career is scripted content. He has made these blunders before being in politics.

Jake Tapper is 100% native. He took the big bucks at CNN, and they a fatal case of TDS.

BJM said...

They may be headed toward that path unless they can exercise some discipline and show they are a viable alternative.


https://youtu.be/8Kx9MdYYx7o




(let's not help them, m'kay?)

Original Mike said...

"The whole point of terror is to make you afraid. I think that Trump and his group are trying to make Americans more afraid. I think that's part of how they got elected: Just make us more afraid."

Bush/Kerry 2004. This line is so tired (not to mention reprehensible.)

PB said...

that's how you push a false narrative. once it's been said, you can't really take it back, even if you restate, but don't really retract. It's like telling a jury to disregard testimony that's just been given. You can't really do it.

cronus titan said...

@SockPuppet I could be wrong, but I do not recall the Tea Party rallies degenerating into organized and funded riots. Nor do I recall Senators referring to President Obama as a terrorist, a Nazi, etc. The closest was a Congressman saying "you lie," which he took a pretty good hit for (turns out the Congressman was correct when Obama said that if you want your doctor, you could keep your doctor, it would never extend to illegals, etc). Senior Democratic officials have been so unhinged and ridiculous that saying "you lie" wouldn't cause a ripple anymore. There seems to be a contest underway to see who can be the most unhinged and ridiculous. Good luck with that strategy.

Original Mike said...

Blogger SockPuppet#55 said..."Maybe Franken "was only kidding", just like when Trump called Obama the "Founder of ISIS"."

He wasn't "kidding". It was figurative and he was correct.

Drago said...

cronus titan: "@SockPuppet I could be wrong, but I do not recall the Tea Party rallies degenerating into organized and funded riots."

But cronus, you don't understand.

Wearing tea bags on hats is VIOLENCE! And not the lefty acceptable kind like muslims cutting off the heads of Christians.

Besides, Tea comes from plants which are alive and have feelings, unlike those unborn babies.

I realize it can be challenging following the logic of the lefties. Still, one must endeavor to persevere.

readering said...

Way overblowing what Franken was saying. Which was that Trump is being counterproductive. Counterproductive is a concept understood by the average listener on Sunday talk shows, right?

chickelit said...

Jake Tapper's new tweet to Althouse: "You should blog as often as you tweet."

SockPuppet#55 said...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/11/politics/donald-trump-hugh-hewitt-obama-founder-isis/

Washington (CNN)Donald Trump said Thursday that he meant exactly what he said when he called President Barack Obama the "founder of ISIS" and objected when a conservative radio show host tried to clarify the GOP nominee's position.

Trump was asked by host Hugh Hewitt about the comments Trump made Wednesday night in Florida, and Hewitt said he understood Trump to mean "that he (Obama) created the vacuum, he lost the peace."
Trump objected.

"No, I meant he's the founder of ISIS," Trump said. "I do. He was the most valuable player. I give him the most valuable player award. I give her, too, by the way, Hillary Clinton."

Hewitt pushed back again, saying that Obama is "not sympathetic" to ISIS and "hates" and is "trying to kill them."
"I don't care," Trump said, according to a show transcript. "He was the founder. His, the way he got out of Iraq was that that was the founding of ISIS, okay?"

Collins: Trump will make the world 'more dangerous'
Hewitt and Trump went back and forth after that, with Hewitt warning Trump that his critics would seize on his use of "founder" as more example of Trump being loose with words."

Big Mike said...

Thank you, Althouse, for watching this crap so we don't have to.

I also see that Franken and the unhinged left fail to see how frightening they and Obama have been to the normal people of the United States. "Some people" are afraid? Welcome to the world the rest of us have lived in for the past eight years.

robother said...

I suppose by Franken's standard, the principal terrorist in 1938 was...Winston Churchill. And now his bust is back in the Oval Office! Coincidence? I don't think so.

tcrosse said...

Fearmongering is the bread and wine of our politics. They all do it, and most of us buy it.

chickelit said...

Did Tapper give Franken a friendly assist?

I'd like Laslo reach around that one.

Drago said...

readering: "Way overblowing what Franken was saying."

The left call Trump "Hitler".
The left called Romney "Theocrat" "Hitler"
The left called McCain "Old and Crazy" "Hitler"
The left called GWBush "Stupid" "Hitler"
The left called HWBush "Goofy" "Hitler"
(for good measure the left threw in -the Bush family funded Hitler!-)
The left called Reagan "Hitler"

No, it's clear that the left means it and no one is overblowing what Franken was saying because Franken and the left really do believe that.

Remember Durbin calling US soldiers "Nazi's" and Kerry claiming US soldiers were like Genghis Khan?

Diogenes of Sinope said...

Franken considers Trump, his team and supporters to be terrorists. Franken committed a political gaff. Franken accidently said what he believes.

Tapper jumped in immediately to save Franken. Tapper earned his political life saving merit badge today.

Had a Trump team member done the equivalent, Tapper would have throw her an anchor. And this would have been a huge deal. It's just the way it is.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"To make matters more complicated, Trump appeared to walk back his insistence that he was being sarcastic, albeit with more than a little bit of evident humor, while speaking at a rally in Erie, Pennsylvania, later on Friday.

“Obviously I’m being sarcastic ― but not that sarcastic, to be honest with you,” he said, drawing laughs from the crowd."

Henry said...

Question for Franken: If your leftwing allies constantly push the apocalyptic fear that Trump is the next Hitler are not they, by your definition, the terrorists?

AprilApple said...

Everyone should be afraid of leftwing progress on the road to .... corruption, lies and the leftist rich getting richer.

readering said...

The left voices its disapproval of Trump and 55% of those polled agree. But 40% approve and they congregate on this blog.

Drago said...

SockPuppet#55 is working hard to solidify Trump gains in the Midwest.

Carry on!

Jon Ericson said...

http://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2017/02/Left-and-Right.jpeg

Original Mike said...

ISIS is on Obama.

Drago said...

readering: "The left voices its disapproval of Trump and 55% of those polled agree. But 40% approve and they congregate on this blog"

Sounds just like the pre-election polls.

Good luck with that. I hope those "accurate" numbers keep you warm at night.

readering said...

As long as no one sings the Nazi version of the German national anthem . . . .

Drago said...

Next up for readering: "We are the 99%!!!"

Drago said...

readering offers up a novel new line of attack on republicans: call them Nazi's!

Ann Althouse said...

"None of the above. He was clearly and intentionally giving Franken a pass."

That's the first option.

gspencer said...

Waiting Al's imminent announcement that he's running for POTUS, that Jill Stein will be his running mate, and that the name of their new party is,

the Frankenstein Party,

"Just like the Democrats, Only Loonier ! Vote for us"

Drago said...

Remember to insult all those Midwest voters too readering/SockPuppet.

Remember, those Midwest voters aren't even real human beings and in any event they love your lecturing. Really, they love it!

Drago said...

Ann Althouse: "

"None of the above. He was clearly and intentionally giving Franken a pass."

That's the first option"

Jake had to step in as Candy Crowley was not available.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"As long as no one sings the Nazi version of the German national anthem . . . ."

Or reproduces a Reichstadt fire.

Ann Althouse said...

"Did you let Jake know you blogged about him?"

LOL. I tweeted it... but I didn't blog it because he tweeted that he wanted me to tweet when I blog. Though I may have tweeted it when I blogged because of that prompt, I didn't pick this to blog because of that. I always record 4 or 5 Sunday shows, and I usually watch Tapper's show first. I did that today, with my usual note pad, and I wrote down 2 things — "joke" and "afraid" — which were ideas about things to search for in the transcript to get to things I wanted to blog. I did the "afraid" one.

The "joke" one was this:

FRANKEN: Well, the people that ISIS has targeted and those people in the Somali community and in our vibrant Somali community in Minnesota, they have in a couple -- in a few cases gone back to Somalia to fight with Shabaab, and they have gone to Syria to fight with ISIS. That's just a couple handfuls.

This is -- this is not what it appears to be, in that there -- we -- I just got a 4-year-old girl -- and this is what we're talking about -- who was supposed to come in on January 31 to join her family and her mom and two older sisters, and...

TAPPER: From Somalia?

FRANKEN: From Uganda, where she was in a refugee camp.

I actually called General Kelly. He -- he helped do that. I'm very grateful for him doing that. That's who is being hurt here.

Now, this 4-year-old had been vetted for five years. And she was...

TAPPER: How could she be vetted for five years if she was 4?

FRANKEN: That was a joke.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: OK.

FRANKEN: But I'm saying, a 4-year-old is not...

TAPPER: Right. I got it. I got it.

FRANKEN: Yes. Yes.

JaimeRoberto said...

Let me get this straight. Republicans get elected by making people afraid, yet it's the lefties who believed that the KKK would be invading college campuses after the election, that abortion will be illegal, that Muslims will be put in camps and that gays will be forced into conversion therapy. Funny how that works.

rhhardin said...

JT: What will Trump's frightening policies mean for our TV narrative viewers?

AF: Well it will be really bad for busybodies and pearl-cluthers.

Yancey Ward said...

I think Franken meant it literally with the expectation that no one on CNN would call him out on it. Notice how Franken went about calling Trump a terrorist without using the word itself- the intent was to leave that usage to others- Trump's opponents in the base, and Trump's supporters.

Tapper fucked up the plan by calling Franken out on it immediately- a credit to him. However, I expect the Democrats to continue trying to build the meme as the week goes on. You will probably see essays by midweek asking the question: "Is Trump a Terrorist- Maybe".

Christopher said...

Tapper seems like a good dude and has done truly admirable things for U.S. veterans. But his reputation (and self-image) as a straight-ahead reporter is overdone.

Case in point, his self-aggrandizing clip responding to the alleged Bannon quote that the press should "keep its mouth shut," where Tapper puts on his best Keith Olbermann frowny face, shakes his head and snarks "no." Except that wasn't the whole quote. Bannon was talking about how epically wrong reporters had been about... let's see everything, and how the election's outcome had been a humiliation to them. "The media should be embarrassed and humiliated and keep its mouth shut and just listen for a while," he said.

Tapper may be the best we can expect during the collective nervous breakdown of elite media. A current online Washington Post headline says Top White House Aide Defends Travel Ban, Spreads False Claims of Voter Fraud. Even putting aside how arguable the second half of that hed is, there are multiple times such a headline could have been written during the Obama Administration, including about Obama himself.

We need a solid impartial press in this country but haven't had one for years. Twitter has helped unmask that fiction, as well as reporters participating in Resistance cosplay even in alleged straight news reports. I am enjoying their self-immolation.

Ann Althouse said...

Why is Franken joking about terrorism?

Also... what was he trying to say there? It was none too clear. Throwing in a joke too is just... ridiculous.

I think he was avoiding the question.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"Remember to insult all those Midwest voters too readering/SockPuppet.

Remember, those Midwest voters aren't even real human beings and in any event they love your lecturing. Really, they love it!"

Drago, why would I do that? I don't live anywhere near either coast.

Original Mike said...

"Or reproduces a Reichstadt fire."

D.C., Berkley, it's been the leftists starting fires.

grimson said...

The better line of questioning from Tapper would have been asking Franken to clarify terrorism, fear, and how they compare between Trump and the violent protests on the left.

Ann Althouse said...

The question was: "According to the Department of Justice, ISIS recruitment efforts have targeted the Somali community in your home state of Minnesota. If we know ISIS is targeting the refugee population or immigrant population in the Twin Cities, does it make sense to put in some kind of new and more thorough vetting system, even if you don't agree with the travel ban? "

rhhardin said...

What useful skills does this 4yo Somali girl bring to the US?

Ann Althouse said...

See how much he was avoiding that question?!

R.J. Chatt said...

I was more disturbed by the way that Franken stated authoritatively that "that was the first time Betsy DeVos ever entered a public school" and Tapper asked, "Is that true?" and Franken laughed and admitted he was outright lying.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"Why is Franken joking about terrorism?"

Neither Trump or Franken should have gone there.

Drago said...

SockPuppet: "Drago, why would I do that? I don't live anywhere near either coast"

The leftist asks.

With resultant laughter all around!

Drago said...

SockPuppet: "Or reproduces a Reichstadt fire."

Uh oh.

Another lefty 9-11 Truther in the making.

Original Mike said...

FRANKEN: "Well, the people that ISIS has targeted and those people in the Somali community and in our vibrant Somali community in Minnesota, they have in a couple -- in a few cases gone back to Somalia to fight with Shabaab, and they have gone to Syria to fight with ISIS. That's just a couple handfuls.

This is -- this is not what it appears to be, ..."


No, of course not, Al. Nothing to see here.

SockPuppet#55 said...

"What useful skills does this 4yo Somali girl bring to the US?"

Teaching people how to be human.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Blogger SockPuppet#55 said...
"What useful skills does this 4yo Somali girl bring to the US?"

Teaching people how to be human.

2/12/17, 3:33 PM

I already know how to be human, and I certainly do not need lessons on how to be human by somebody calling him or herself "SockPuppet#55."

rehajm said...

TAPPER: How could she be vetted for five years if she was 4?

FRANKEN: That was a joke.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: OK.

FRANKEN: But I'm saying, a 4-year-old is not...

TAPPER: Right. I got it. I got it.

FRANKEN: Yes. Yes.



As if we needed more data points that SNL isn't funny...

SockPuppet#55 said...

Lewis Wetzel, with the private profile, I'm not trying to teach you a thing. I wouldn't bother.

Drago said...

SockPuppet#55: ""What useful skills does this 4yo Somali girl bring to the US?"

Teaching people how to be human"

If that is the rule then it is clear that the Obama policy was allowing Christian 4 year olds from Syria into the us had nothing to teach us.

Isn't that interesting?

R.J. Chatt said...

I was also disturbed by the lack of logic involved in dismissing the need for security because of a child and the people escaping violence. But at least in that case Franken's idiocy is obvious as opposed to his deliberate spreading of lies which then get repeated as fact because he's a Senator. BTW, what's a "couple of handfuls of terrorists?" 19?

Drago said...

Remember, the continued lefty narrative remains muslim terrorists are simply not what they appear to be.

That should work very well in a campaign ad. Can't wait to see what the dems replace "Workplace Violence" with. It will be great, no doubt.

walter said...

Just because he's engagaging in terrorist activities, that doesn't make him a terrorist.
Glad we clarified that.

Hagar said...

What is this Reichstadt fire of which you speak?

Drago said...

R.J. Chatt: "BTW, what's a "couple of handfuls of terrorists?" 19?"

Remember, many on the left still believe, completely, that GWBush pulled off the attack ono the twin towers.

It's why li'l sockpuppet#55 here mentioned Reichstag fire. It's why Krugman specifically put forth the theory that Trump would do that.

They can't help themselves.

Lewis Wetzel said...

"I'm not trying to teach you a thing."
And yet you've already taught me that you are a smarmy ass!

SockPuppet#55 said...

Drago,
Roughly the same amount of Christians were allowed to come into the country as were Muslims.

4.Nearly 39,000 Muslim refugees entered the U.S. in fiscal 2016, the highest number on record, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of data from the State Department’s Refugee Processing Center. Muslims made up nearly half (46%) of refugee admissions, a higher share than for Christians, who accounted for 44% of refugees admitted. Muslims exceeded Christians on this measure for the first time since 2006, when a large number of Somali refugees entered the U.S. From fiscal years 2002 to 2016, the U.S. admitted 399,677 Christian refugees and 279,339 Muslim refugees, meaning that 46% of all refugees who have entered the U.S. during this time have been Christian while 32% have been Muslim."

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/30/key-facts-about-refugees-to-the-u-s/

walter said...

And Jake, I know that may seem like wobbly thinking to some. But, Jake, I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggone it, people like me.

Curious George said...

"Drago said...
Jake had to step in as Candy Crowley was not available."

She doesn't work at CNN anymore. Probably because too many lunches were stolen from the CNN lunch room.

Drago said...

Hagar: "What is this Reichstadt fire of which you speak?"

It was the ploy the leftist national socialists used to consolidate public opinion and power which they used to finish off the leftist international socialists/communists.

readering said...

My motto in life, when in doubt try googling.

SockPuppet#55 said...

Hagar, yes correction. It should be Reichstag fire.

Curious George said...

"R.J. Chatt said...
I was also disturbed by the lack of logic involved in dismissing the need for security because of a child and the people escaping violence. But at least in that case Franken's idiocy is obvious as opposed to his deliberate spreading of lies which then get repeated as fact because he's a Senator. BTW, what's a "couple of handfuls of terrorists?" 19?"

That would be 10. Unless it's a cartoon hand. Then 8.

Birkel said...

As a general matter:

I find it odd when people refer to the two coasts of the United States. What happened to the Gulf Coast? That is at least a third coast.

And Alaska and Hawaii have coasts too.

Carry on.

Original Mike said...

TAPPER: According to the Department of Justice, ISIS recruitment efforts have targeted the Somali community in your home state of Minnesota. If we know ISIS is targeting the refugee population or immigrant population in the Twin Cities, does it make sense to put in some kind of new and more thorough vetting system, even if you don't agree with the travel ban? "

FRANKEN: "Well, the people that ISIS has targeted and those people in the Somali community and in our vibrant Somali community in Minnesota, they have in a couple -- in a few cases gone back to Somalia to fight with Shabaab, and they have gone to Syria to fight with ISIS. That's just a couple handfuls.

This is -- this is not what it appears to be,"


SHORTER TAPPER: ISIS is targeting the Somali community in the Twin Cities to recruit new terrorists. Shouldn't we look at this closely?

SHORTER FRANKEN: No.


Can't imagine why Americans don't trust Democrats with security.

Drago said...

SockPuppet#55: "Drago, Roughly the same amount of Christians were allowed to come into the country as were Muslims"

This is a clear bait and switch as the stats you cite cover time periods that preceded Obama as well as covering geographic regions where Christians were not being executed by muslims.

In those areas where Christians were being systematically murdered by muslims during the Obama era, particularly in Syria, the Christians were excluded.

Your defense through obfuscation of this fact tells us all we need to know about you.

Ann Althouse said...

All terrorism is an effort to manipulate people through fear. But not all efforts to manipulate people through fear are terrorism.

So what efforts to manipulate people through fear are not terrorism? I assume the answer is efforts that don't include committing or threatening to commit acts of violence.

So how do you scare people without committing or threatening to commit acts of violence? In the case of the accusation against Trump, you do it by calling attention to the efforts by OTHER PEOPLE to commit commit acts of violence.

Big Mike said...

Let's not forget lefties painting swastikas in public places.

Oh, what's that you say?

The swastikas are to protest Trump?

Well, in that case never mind.

Alex said...

This is why the Democrats are still happy, they control academia, media & Hollywood. Political office comes and goes, but they control 100% of the culture.

Alex said...

Ann... yet isn't it ironic that it's the left engaging in actual violence and intimidation through their 'antifa' actions like in UC Berkeley against Milo? Who is really engaging in fear & terrorism in 2017 if it isn't the left?

Jupiter said...

Ann Althouse said...
"Why is Franken joking about terrorism?"

Because Franken thinks terrorism is a joke. Al Franken believes that the upside of bringing Somalians to the US -- namely, more permanent welfare recipients voting Democrat -- more than outweighs the likelihood that some of them will kill productive American citizens. This is actually what the evil little bastard believes. "Vibrant". That stupid little prick.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, if I'm following your reasoning, I would edit to read "successful efforts."

readering said...

So how do you scare people without committing or threatening to commit acts of violence?

By exaggerating the risks of violence against them in order to justify taking unwarranted steps supposedly to prevent that violence.

Jupiter said...

SockPuppet#55 said...
"What useful skills does this 4yo Somali girl bring to the US?"

"Teaching people how to be human."

Really? That's your answer? We need to bring Somalis to the US to teach humans how to be human? One of the very few subjects in which Somalis do have some actual expertise is teaching people how to be fertilizer. The Horn of Africa is not a locale noted for its humanity.

Drago said...

Ann Althouse: "All terrorism is an effort to manipulate people through fear. But not all efforts to manipulate people through fear are terrorism.

So what efforts to manipulate people through fear are not terrorism? I assume the answer is efforts that don't include committing or threatening to commit acts of violence."

This misses the point entirely.

The left is currently defining conservative speech as "violence", which the left then uses as full justification for what they term defensive/reactive actual physical violence.

Any discussion that does not grapple with this fact is basically pointless.


rehajm said...

But not all efforts to manipulate people through fear are terrorism.

Feigning fear of Trump is leftie terrorism.

Drago said...

readering: "By exaggerating the risks of violence against them in order to justify taking unwarranted steps supposedly to prevent that violence."

Yeah, the side that labels simple speech they disagree with as "violence" just offered that up.

Without irony.

Alex said...

What is the 24/7 leftist campaign of hate/boycotts if not a form of terrorism?

SockPuppet#55 said...

"Really? That's your answer? We need to bring Somalis to the US to teach humans how to be human? One of the very few subjects in which Somalis do have some actual expertise is teaching people how to be fertilizer. The Horn of Africa is not a locale noted for its humanity."

Yes, if a 4 year old refugee girl doesn't bring out your humanity you have a problem.

Birkel said...

@ readering

So by your reasoning the fear mongering of CAGW is not terrorism but it is manipulating through fear? Or those politicians who exaggerate threats to clean water? Or clean air? Or loss of the rain forests? Or ozone layer depletion?

Sounds reasonable.

Jon Ericson said...

I wanna know how much she weighs.

Drago said...

sockpuppet#55: "Yes, if a 4 year old refugee girl doesn't bring out your humanity you have a problem"

Yeah, the side that purposely excluded 4 year old Christians (along with all the other ones) from escaping Syria where they were being murdered by the leftists beloved islamists wants to lecture us on humanity.

I'm surprised the lefties have time for their middle east Christian hate with so much time being taken up by their Israel hate.

Alex said...

Yes, if a 4 year old refugee girl doesn't bring out your humanity you have a problem.

So all 2 billion 4 year olds in the 3rd world must be admitted into the United States, in the name of 'compassion'.

Alex said...

I'm surprised the lefties have time for their middle east Christian hate with so much time being taken up by their Israel hate.

I'm surprised Trump hasn't called out the left on their Christian hate. He's normally good on this stuff. Dropping the ball?

Fernandinande said...

Drago said...
SockPuppet#55: ""What useful skills does this 4yo Somali girl bring to the US?"
Teaching people how to be human"


Today I shall give you what you've been missing: Humanity.

Also, all purpose Skub.

Drago said...

Alex: "So all 2 billion 4 year olds in the 3rd world must be admitted into the United States, in the name of 'compassion'."

Only the non-Christian ones, because to the left those Christian ones are "icky".

Birkel said...

@ Jon Ericson
She is lighter than a goose.

I'm not sayin'. I'm just sayin'.

Drago said...

Alex: "I'm surprised Trump hasn't called out the left on their Christian hate. He's normally good on this stuff. Dropping the ball?"

Only so many hours in a day.

mockturtle said...

Drago says my response was the same as option number one but I don't see it that way.

Option one reads:
Yes. JT saw that AF erred, alerted him, and helped him correct the problem on the spot.

From which I inferred that AF made an error which JT helped him to fix. No, Franken meant exactly what he said and Tapper bailed him out. Disgusting. Tapper is no less biased than the other MSM personalities [I refuse to call them 'journalists'].

readering said...

All politicians avoid directly answering the question or they use the question to make their point. Franken's point is that when 4 year old girls are being denied entry as a result of the President's order that's a reductio ad absurdum (to use the rhetorical term). I thought the 5-year vetting was droll, and Tapper was throughout pedantic. I'm sure Franken made a mental note to self, beware humor when being interviewed by Tapper.

The irony is that for his first term Franken stayed away from humor as he didn't want to be dismissed as a lightweight. I can understand if the Trump folks suspect that his growing use of humor (bad or good or whatever) is a sign he's thinking of higher office.

Drago said...

mockturtle: "Drago says my response was the same as option number one but I don't see it that way."

I did not write that.

HT said...

Ann Althouse said...

All terrorism is an effort to manipulate people through fear. But not all efforts to manipulate people through fear are terrorism.

So what efforts to manipulate people through fear are not terrorism? I assume the answer is efforts that don't include committing or threatening to commit acts of violence.

So how do you scare people without committing or threatening to commit acts of violence? In the case of the accusation against Trump, you do it by calling attention to the efforts by OTHER PEOPLE to commit commit acts of violence.
2/12/17, 3:48 PM

____

Your own commenters have one answer. During the election they said if Trump doesn't win, the country would be overrun and Republicans would never have another chance. The demographic shift would be such that Democrats would be in the permanent majority.

mockturtle said...

Drago, I wrote:
"None of the above. He was clearly and intentionally giving Franken a pass."

You wrote:
"That's the first option"

But it doesn't matter, Drago. I was merely saying I thought none of the options addressed the true intent of the exchange.

readering said...

There are only estimated to be 127 million four year olds in the world and maybe 4 million of them are already here.

Birkel said...

@ mockturtle

Althouse wrote that.

Birkel said...

@ readering

Thank you for proving the point. Only 123 million obligations for 4 year olds. And a similar number for 3, 2, 1 and first year kids.

That's only 600 million obligations. All we have to do is invite children to join the United States and bar their parents.

Do you even ethics, bro?

mockturtle said...

Birkel corrects me: @ mockturtle

Althouse wrote that.


I see, now. First was my quote, then her quote, then Drago's comment.

As Gilda Radner was fond of saying, Never mind. ;-)

Birkel said...

@ mockturtle

I wasn't trying to correct so much as hoping to discourage internecine argument. I hope you didn't take offense at my intervention.

readering said...

Birkel: No, I do Tapper.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Calling Trump a terrorist is, of course, an appeal to fear.

Bay Area Guy said...

"I think that Trump and his group are trying to make Americans more afraid. I think that's part of how they got elected"

Franken's misunderstanding is subtle, but important.

1. The American people were afraid of how their country was changing due to Democrat policies. That is why they elected Trump.

2. Franken and the Left are indeed afraid of Trump. Because Trump is trying to undo what they've accomplished since the 60s.

David Begley said...

Would have been nice to have a panelist from Wisconsin who could cruelly and neutrally comment on this stuff in real time. A person who could slap Nerra Tanden silly when she runs her mouth with Dem foolishness.

Birkel said...

Bay Area Guy: "...Trump is trying to undo what they've accomplished since the 60s."

...by some limited definitions of the word accomplished.

mockturtle said...

I wasn't trying to correct so much as hoping to discourage internecine argument. I hope you didn't take offense at my intervention.

Not at all, Birkel! I welcome correction. It makes sense now. But Althouse, not Drago, was wrong, IMO. ;-)

mockturtle said...

Bay Area Guy at 4:39 nails it.

CalisseTabarnac said...

This is yet another reason why it is absolutely pointless to try to compromise with these people. Any hope of consensus disappeared with fist, the endless accusations of racism, and now, the onset of leftist violence, which is tacitly approved by all the bien-pensants.

There is only one solution: Attack, attack, attack, and win, win, win. Use every weapon possible. Punch back twice as hard, and bring a machine gun to a knife fight.

dave72 said...

Tapper helps Franken with a little fake news cotrection.

TBlakely said...

More fake news from a fake news network. Anyone surprised? I'm not.

Lewis Wetzel said...

At this point, if Trump announced that Obamacare was being replaced by something identical to Obamacare, but called Trumpcare, not only would every democrat denounce it as a plan to round and murder Americans and give their money to the Koch brothers, but also that it would start World War Three and cause the Earth to burn to ash within seconds of its passage.
These are the people that believe that GW Bush started the Iraq War to avenge the non-assassination of his father.
I have become more conservative since GW Bush was elected, not because I have grown older, but because the Democrats have become a party of screeching frightbats who hate ordinary Americans, AKA people like me.

rcocean said...

If Ex-Funny man Al franken is the best the Democrats have to offer they're in real trouble.

Hard to think of another state that is so dumb and left-wing that they would elect him Senator.

Minnesota you're in a clown class all by yourself.

rcocean said...

Franken also stated:

In the way that we all have this suspicion that — you know, that he’s not — he lies a lot, he says things that aren’t true, that’s the same thing as lying, I guess,” Franken told moderator Jake Tapper, mentioning the president’s repeatedly false claims of voter fraud.

“You know, that is not the norm, uh, for a president of the United States or, actually, for a human being,” Franken said.


Hmmm... False voter fraud claims? How do we know they're false? Answer: we don't.

Michael Murray said...

More like a pre arranged question and answer exchange to me.

Michael Murray said...

More like a pre arranged question and answer exchange to me.

Big Mike said...

@rcocean, they also reelected him.

Michael K said...

One more reason why I'm disappointed that Dartmouth chose Tapper to be Commencement speaker.

Darrell said...

Funny would be Al Franken falling into an ice fishing hole in Minnesota and not being discovered for two years.

Darrell said...

The average vetting time during the Obama administration? Fifteen minutes. Now that's funny.

HT said...

Lewis Wetzel said...

At this point, if Trump announced that Obamacare was being replaced by something identical to Obamacare, but called Trumpcare, not only would every democrat denounce it as a plan to round and murder Americans and give their money to the Koch brothers, but also that it would start World War Three and cause the Earth to burn to ash within seconds of its passage.

____

Just a suggestion - stop trying to guess what "every democrat" woulda coulda shoulda.

Back in December, when I learned about Ryancare, I said it didn't seem so bad. And it basically uses Obamacare as a base or foundation. I think it may be what a lot of people can live with.

And if you watched and listened to any of the Democrats on the news shows, you would've heard them saying if they keep Obamacare and call it Trumpcare, fine with them.

I guess my question would be, is all you want a change in name from Obama to Trump? Why are you asking that question?

AllenS said...

Let us not forget, a couple handfuls of terrorists caused 9/11.

tim maguire said...

Let us not forget that Franken stole his Senate seat.

Unknown said...

I'm sorry, but these people are scaring themselves. If trump says people are coming in illegally (which is true) they take this to mean they should be afraid. If trump says terrorists are coming from middle eastern countries (which is true) they think it means he is racist and they should be afraid. It is like children talking themselves into hysteria because it is dark.

mistercalm said...

I'll hand it to the left... they are inclusive; every one of these spewing heads is marking themselves to the American people who want Trump to succeed as a speed-bump in his Presidency. They're all going down together in a mass of loathing.

vicari valdez said...

i believe that obama is the founder of isis but also that the president is a terrorist.

Unknown said...

AA> So how do you scare people without committing or threatening to commit acts of violence?

Republicans are going to take away your social security and you be eating catfood.

Paul Ryan wants to take away you health care.

Mexican leaders urge illegals to clog the US court system.

"Make America Sick Again"

Jupiter said...

SockPuppet#55 said...

"Yes, if a 4 year old refugee girl doesn't bring out your humanity you have a problem."

You know what she is a refugee from? Somalis.

Gretchen said...

Unknown,

You forgot Joe Biden telling blacks Republicans wanted them back in chains.

Republicans will ban birth control and tampons (my personal favorite).

Republicans will literally push your grandma's wheelchair off a cliff. (Kind Democrats like Zeke Emmanuel would just euthanize her or cut off health care when they deemed her life to be done)

SukieTawdry said...

Of course it was an assist and even with that assist, he blew the shot. Are the Dems really gonna make Franken one of their front men?

Martin said...

By Franken's definition, he and the rest of the Democrats are the terrorists. They and their media hacks are painting Trump as far more scary than anything he has said about Muslims, immigrants, Democrats, or anyone else.

They and their media hacks are calling Trump Hitleresque, he has not said anything remotely that scary about anybody he has criticized.

Also, it is interesting how 24 years after the first World Trade Center attack, we still don't have a concise, agreed definition for what terrorism is.

Robert Cook said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert Cook said...

Well, it's obviously true that Trump is trying to terrify us...as have many American presidents over the past number of decades. After all, would we sit still to have so much of our money taken and handed over the to War Department to fight "enemies" who pose no actual threat to us? This is just SOP.

William Chadwick said...

Maybe "terrorist" is the new "fascist:" i.e., People who the Hive opposes. (See "Hive, Joseph Sobran.")