January 22, 2017

"Ignorance allied w/ power is the most ferocious enemy justice can have."

A James Baldwin quote* on an excellent painted placard at yesterday's Women's March in Manhattan, caught in an excellent photograph by my son John Althouse Cohen.

2 more photographs by John here, one of police interacting respectfully with the crowd and one of a little boy with a sign that reads "Too young to vote/But not too young to care."
______________________

* That's an abbreviated version of the quote. Here's the extended version, from "No Name in the Street" (1972), is:
Well, if one really wishes to know how justice is administered in a country, one does not question the policemen, the lawyers, the judges, or the protected members of the middle class. One goes to the unprotected — those, precisely, who need the law's protection most! — and listens to their testimony. Ask any Mexican, any Puerto Rican, any black man, any poor person — ask the wretched how they fare in the halls of justice, and then you will know, not whether or not the country is just, but whether or not it has any love for justice, or any concept of it. It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have.

161 comments:

Achilles said...

Ignorance allied with power.

That succinctly describes the progressive movement.

Sebastian said...

Almost true. Good thing we got rid of O, who, among many other things, showed his ignorance on voting rights just before leaving office, asserting that the U.S. makes voting harder than other countries. Of course, the ignorance serves the political calculation that race-baiting about voting rights will be the right recipe to fuel the foundation's shakedown and keep O the go-to guy on the left. So I'm with Baldwin: the coming exploitation of that ignorance will keep O a ferocious enemy of justice.

mockturtle said...

If justice were truly served, there would be far more in prison than there are now.

Fernandinande said...

A slogan a day keeps the thinking away.

Drago said...

Wow. Should speak to Christian bakers as well.

No need to speak with Muslim bakers of course. No issues there.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

That quote is really pretty stupid. Ignorance allied with power is probably the less dangerous combination.

Moral certainty allied with power is more dangerous. Power for power is most dangerous (ie Soviet Union). Show me one example where the mass graves were based on a mistaken assumption?

David Begley said...

Nice organization on the March. Some clever signs. But what about the sign of Putin and Trump kissing under an umbrella of a golden shower? That was a picture at Isthmus.

Let's get to the facts. Trump won Wisconsin. He won the Electoral College. More people pay good money to see the Badgers smash sad Big Ten teams than went to a free march.

The numbers favor Trump. The Left is great at putting on a big show but they lost. The Forgotten Man now runs the show. Deal with it.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

That is a great picture of the kid. He looks completely bored and uninterested! Keeps in line with Althouse's prescription to not appropriate kids for your politics.

David Begley said...

I should clarify. John took his photos in NYC and Chris was in Madison. Isthmus is a Madison publication.

But I stand on my main point: these protests are tiny as a percentage of the population.

Seeing Red said...

Well, after 100 years of pain destruction and death, vile Progs still think socialism will work, so I agree.

Seeing Red said...

And they're so much more vastly credentialed than we deplorables.

Fernandinande said...

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
That quote is really pretty stupid.


The extended version was even stupider.

On the other hand, my Mexican friend got ripped off in court when his now ex-wife got half his 80 acres of land plus $1000/month for anti-child support since he also raises their two kids.

mockturtle said...

Isn't it funny that...
1. The Left hates and fear Russia so much? Now?
2. Feminists have embraced Sharia law?
3. Progs fly to the defense of the CIA?
4. Hollywood is a source of wisdom and intelligence?

A novel with such unlikely situations would be tossed aside with contempt.

Gahrie said...

It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have.

Sounds like a description of the progressive movement to me

YoungHegelian said...

It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have.

You've gotta give the protestor points for at least being literate. While not as pithy, her sign gives one more cause for hope than a sign that says Cunt Power!

Darrell said...

Ask them how they fared in the Hellholes they came from, then tell them to kiss the ground.

David Baker said...

How much I must be missing by not clicking on Facebook.

Michael K said...

Even the Daily Mail published the 8AM photo of the inauguration crowd and got called for it in comments. The media seems determined to destroy what is left of their credibility.

The left is digging a deeper hole all weekend.

Gahrie said...

On the other hand, my Mexican friend got ripped off in court when his now ex-wife got half his 80 acres of land plus $1000/month for anti-child support since he also raises their two kids.

That didn't happen because he was a Mexican, it happened because he was a man.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Ignorance allied with power.
Examples abound: Socialism. Countries with Islamic governments. The media.

EDH said...

"Well, if one really wishes to know how justice is administered in a country, one does not question the policemen, the lawyers, the judges, or the protected members of the middle class."

For too long a small group in our nation’s capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost. Washington flourished but the people did not share in its wealth. Politicians prospered but the jobs left and the factories closed. The establishment protected itself but not the citizens of our country. Their victories have not been your victories. Their triumphs have not been your triumphs. While they have celebrated there has been little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land.

That all changes starting right here and right now because this moment is your moment. It belongs to you. It belongs to everyone gathered here today and everyone watching all across America today. This is your day. This is your celebration. And this – the United States of America – is your country. What truly matters is not what party controls our government but that this government is controlled by the people.

traditionalguy said...

Ignorance allied with power gives us a Government mandated Transgender Industry. They don't know what a man and a woman are. Those basics are over their head.

MackM said...

That is an excellent photo and great art work on that sign. Historic numbers of people participating in that march in New York yesterday, well in numerous cities actually. Quite amazing.

mockturtle said...

The problem here is power, itself. It is not Trump who wants to wield power but the MSM and the Left. It is they who want to tell people what to think, how to think and when to think it.

Robert Cook said...

"If justice were truly served, there would be far more in prison than there are now."

No, there would be many fewer, but more of them would be the criminals in government service and corporate leadership who do the greatest harm to society.

Gojuplye said...

Ignorance allied with arrogant self righteousness is even worse - and is exemplified by the progressives.

MackM said...

"Feminists have embraced Sharia law?"

No.

Robert Cook said...

"That quote is really pretty stupid. Ignorance allied with power is probably the less dangerous combination.

"Moral certainty allied with power is more dangerous."


What do you think underlies moral certainty?

William said...

One wonders why so many Hispanics, Muslims, and Africans make such enormous sacrifices and take such perilous journeys to come to a land where ignorance is allied with power.......Further cause of wonder: Africa has any number of despots and tyrants. Why is Mandela the only sainted figure to have resisted tyranny with wisdom and forbearance on that benighted continent?

MackM said...

"The problem here is power, itself. It is not Trump who wants to wield power but the MSM and the Left. It is they who want to tell people what to think, how to think and when to think it."

Sheesh lady, could you possibly take off your Trump sunglasses at some point?

Paul Zrimsek said...

What we saw yesterday was ignorance mourning the loss of its alliance with power.

Otto said...

Is your son campaigning to change the voting age to 12 years old?
Well we have had elites with power the last 50 years, so how has that worked out.

Robert Cook said...

"The extended version was even stupider."

Perhaps it offends you at its suggestion that America may be an unjust nation.

Heck, there's no "may be" about it.

Bob Boyd said...

“It’s frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what is going on.”
Amos Tversky

robother said...

So, to restate as a positive formulation of Baldwin's Progressive politics:

AI + Power = Justice. Literally looking forward to our robotic overlords.

AllenS said...

Conversation overheard at local march --

I am woman, hear me roar. Where'd I put my pussy hat?

David Begley said...

Otto

I suspect John shares his mother's distaste for children in politics. It is wrong and I think Ann has so written here before.

William said...

If Obama had a grandmother she would look like a Luo. This tribe is a minority in Kenya. The Kenyan president has spoken out against the Luo people. There have been several massacres. Many of the Luo live in refugee camps where the women are subjected to extremely rapey-rapes by the security forces that are supposed to be safeguarding them. If Obama has spoken out against Kenyatta, it has not been reported in the media. Only some kinds of ignorant power merit protest.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

What do you think underlies moral certainty?

The desire for power to tell other people what to think and how to live. With the added benefit to smugly snark how stupid the others are. In other words the leftists and evangelicals.

Fernandinande said...

Gahrie said...
That didn't happen because he was a Mexican, it happened because he was a man.


Well, yeah, and the goofy sloganeers in this sad tale support and applaud those unjust results.

"Ask any Mexican..how they fare in the halls of justice" - OK! He actually fares quite nicely in the halls of justice as a Mexican: county commissioner and such over the years, and usually wins the associated court/whatever battles he volunteered to fight.

Michael K said...

Historic numbers of people participating in that march in New York yesterday, well in numerous cities actually. Quite amazing.

What would be even more amazing would be a march in a Muslim country. Wouldn't you think so ?

Or are your lefty blinders too big ?

William said...

White people are malleable and infinitely perfectable. When white people reach an elevated level of wisdom, tolerance and generosity such as is seen nowhere on earth, then the rest of the world will fall in line and everybody will live happily ever after.

Big Mike said...

It seems to me that "ignorance allied with power" is a good summary of the past eight years. For all of his alleged IQ and his Ivy credentials, Barack Obama has been a profoundly ignorant man.

Drago said...

MackM: ""Feminists have embraced Sharia law?"

No."

Actually, Yes. For others, because it makes them feel good.

But for those who have to live with it? They pay the price for Lefty Good Feelz.

Lefties never intend for any of their positions or policies or laws to effect them personally.

Achilles said...

Robert Cook said...
"The extended version was even stupider."

"Perhaps it offends you at its suggestion that America may be an unjust nation.

Heck, there's no "may be" about it."

We know you aren't going to be able to actually engage intelligently but lets pretend you are capable of critical thinking.

Please provide an example of a nation that is more just than the united states.

Achilles said...

MackM said...
"Feminists have embraced Sharia law?"

"No."

This is the moment MackM realizes his position is morally unjustifiable.

Achilles said...

Robert Cook said...

"No, there would be many fewer, but more of them would be the criminals in government service and corporate leadership who do the greatest harm to society."

We are in total agreement on this and our hero Trump is going to make it happen.

Oso Negro said...

I will believe in the Women's Movement the day they march for equal rights for men and fathers in family court.

AprilApple said...

More scenes from the "I hate you daddy, but you must pay for my abortion" pussy riot.

AprilApple said...

They are so upset over Trump's 2005 private vulgarity, their response is to up the vulgarity by 1000.

Robert Cook said...

"We are in total agreement on this and our hero Trump is going to make it happen."

Boy...you really have been taken in by this guy, haven't you?

He's a liar and a swine, and his cabinet picks make up a Vulture's Dozen.

jaydub said...

More white people. Weren't any women of color participating?

Michael K said...

"He's a liar and a swine, and his cabinet picks make up a Vulture's Dozen."

Cookie, we tolerate you as a pet here. Nobody pays any attention to your brief petit mal eruptions.

If I took you seriously, I would wonder why you are here and not in some paradise like Russia or North Korea.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Althouse, your son looks a bit like Aaron Rodgers.

That little boy looks bored and sad because unlike that 8 year old in DC he had to stand around holding a sign instead of getting to set a fire and telling a Fox News reporter "Screw the President." The DC brat got the fun gig.

There is nothing that I would have found more boring at age 8 than politics. Well, probably church.

exiledonmainstreet said...

MackM: ""Feminists have embraced Sharia law?"

No."

I dunno, this one seems cool with it:


http://ace.mu.nu/archives/Womens%20march%202.jpg

MackM said...

"Cookie, we tolerate you as a pet here."

Says the guy who seems to indicate he has some "ownership" here. I think he's just a commenter like the rest of us, no?

David said...

I am an admirer of Baldwin's writing and of the way that he lived his life. He was a powerful voice but he also saw and expressed nuance and contradiction. His observations about justice and how you measure its existence ring true to me, but we have added a more recent twist that I think Baldwin would have illuminated. That twist is the commodity politicization of injustice outrage, largely though not exclusively by whites who either have a political agenda of increasing their power, or a personal agenda of convincing others (and themselves) of their virtue.

We generalize this by calling it political correctness. Political correctness has an insidious effect of diminishing our willingness and ability to distinguish between real injustice and commodity outrage. The demand for political correctness is divisive in itself, but the diminished distinction between actual and commoditized injustice puts a sharp point in this divisiveness. Real injustices get dismissed by many along with the fake, with unfortunate results to the powerless.

We have never been a perfectly just society, and in many respects we have been brutally unjust at times. We are human and therefore imperfect. We also tend to focus on the injustice that matters most to us personally. American feminism, which was able to organize and produce an impressive protest this weekend, is an example. It's tremendous energy, quite often directed at perfecting the rights of the already privileged, was on display. But it is forgotten that a majority of white women (the cohort of most of the marchers) voted for Donald Trump. Are a majority of white women in this country racists, or drowning in false consciousness? I don't think so. They have their own sense of injustice and worry, quite different from those which have been at the top of the list in public discussion until recently. Many in this female majority believe that the (formerly?) culturally ascendant dismiss their concerns. It is hard to argue that they are wrong in thinking this.

A perfectly just society will always elude us. That is because it is unenforceable. Any system which pretends to enforce perfect justice will end up creating its own tyrannies. There are many different legitimate forms and expressions of justice. We will always fall short in achieving them in some respects. But until we accept that our group's concerns are not exclusive or primary, and cease denigrating the concerns of others as inferior or invalid, we will fall far short of our goal.

gadfly said...

So James Baldwin, the black but gay writer who roamed the streets of Harlam and Greenwich Village decided to test the common black discrimination back in 1948. So he walked into a restaurant, and when asked to leave, attacked the waitress and busted the bar mirror. He then left the country and moved to France. Maybe these women protesters could seek a similar solution to their vexing problem.

And perhaps their friends will become famous - Baldwin was visited abroad by Sidney Portier and Harry Bellefonte. Baldwin died in 1987 and you thought that "dead men tell no tales."

Achilles said...

Robert Cook said...
"We are in total agreement on this and our hero Trump is going to make it happen."

"Boy...you really have been taken in by this guy, haven't you?

He's a liar and a swine, and his cabinet picks make up a Vulture's Dozen."

Another opportunity for cook to learn something lost. You really are dumb. And it is noted that you still haven't come up with an example of a country more just than the united states.

Steve Uhr said...

I actually thought that President Trump just might act a little more presidential than candidate Trump or President-Elect Trump. Wrong. Every chance he gets to appear presidential and take the high road, talk about how this is the greatest country on earth for free speech, etc., he blows it.

James Pawlak said...

I must wonder if the "parents" of the little-boy fire-setter would be the subject of a police investigation or one by "protective services".

mockturtle said...

All we are saying...
Is give Trump a chance.

Gee, the guy has only been President since Friday!

n.n said...

An Unplanned child holds a sign demonstrating solidarity with a cult that advocates for Planned children. Too young to vote. Too young to understand.

A Pro-Choice religious/moral philosophy is a first-order cause of catastrophic anthropogenic cultural corruption and civil rights violations.

Denying life unworthy anywhere is denying life everywhere.

And, of course, ignorance and immaturity allied with the double edge of a scalpel is the cause of an unprecedented denial of scientific knowledge and human rights.

The female chauvinists really need to examine their premise for political progress.

walter said...

Driving to Chicago yesterday, I listened to AM720 hosts impressed by the size of the crowds but unable to find "an ask". After some MOS/WOS phone calls the best they could come up with was "putting the Trump administration on notice"
The male host got quite emotional saying though he didn't vote for him, Trump should be more "inclusive" at this point.

walter said...

"Too young to vote. Old enough to be exploited"

Anglelyne said...

mockturtle:

Isn't it funny that...
1. The Left hates and fear Russia so much? Now?
2. Feminists have embraced Sharia law?
3. Progs fly to the defense of the CIA?
4. Hollywood is a source of wisdom and intelligence?

A novel with such unlikely situations would be tossed aside with contempt.


I'd love to think that all this indicates that we've reached Peak Clown World, but I fear the ride is a long way from over, and is going to get a lot rougher.

Michael K said...

"I think he's just a commenter like the rest of us, no?"

So ?

Cookie is on your side of the sanity wall so I assume you are trying to defend him ?

What's your point?

Achilles said...

Steve Uhr said...
"I actually thought that President Trump just might act a little more presidential than candidate Trump or President-Elect Trump. Wrong. Every chance he gets to appear presidential and take the high road, talk about how this is the greatest country on earth for free speech, etc., he blows it."

You mean when he said it didn't matter which party was in power that the most important part was putting the people in charge of DC?

Oh I forgot presidential to progressives means empty lies like Obama told us while DC gets rich. Carry on.

exiledonmainstreet said...

So James Baldwin, the black but gay writer who roamed the streets of Harlam and Greenwich Village decided to test the common black discrimination back in 1948. So he walked into a restaurant, and when asked to leave, attacked the waitress and busted the bar mirror"

That happened in tolerant, cosmopolitan NYC? Goodness, I thought incidents like that only happened south of the Mason-Dixon line. That's what the NY Times tells me.

mockturtle said...

David @12:20, well-reasoned and eloquent post. Thank you.

rhhardin said...

Ignorance leads to thinking power is the name of something, as if you could gain it, have it or lose it.

It splits into officium, auctoritas, imperium and potestas, if you want to get closer to something definite. I see wiki goes on about them.

Ignorance and auctoritas would be my favorite combination.

exiledonmainstreet said...

David @12:20, well-reasoned and eloquent post. Thank you.

1/22/17, 12:42 PM

Yes, David, that was excellent.

Curious George said...

"jaydub said...
More white people. Weren't any women of color participating?"

There aren't many black lesbians, and no free shit.

Achilles said...

MackM said...
"Cookie, we tolerate you as a pet here."

Says the guy who seems to indicate he has some "ownership" here. I think he's just a commenter like the rest of us, no?

You are new here. Cook has been around for a long time. He has no critical thinking ability and hates the United States. He constantly says unjustifiable crap and is incapable of engaging or learning s the above exchanges attest.

You seem to be in a similar category. You clearly lived in a bubble before and now you are here. Progs roll in and wash out of here constantly. Most of you are really dumb just like Cook. In general you completely lack critical thinking skills. R&B is the only prog on here with a combination of critical thinking skills and intellectual honesty. LyingPB used to show flashes but lately he has just turned into a boring bitter troll.

You have been introduced to ideas that do not fit your paradigm. I expect you to refuse to engage these ideas, plug your ears singing "lalala," and eventually disappear back to HuffPo. It is what most of you do.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Reported by the NY Times: The Soros ties to over 50 groups who protested in DC:

http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2017/01/20/billionaire-george-soros-has-ties-to-more-than-50-partners-of-the-womens-march-on-washington/

Yep. Just a spontaneous display of righteous anger.

Steve Uhr said...

Achilles -- So we are to believe that when Trump said he didn't care which party was in power that he meant it? Want to buy a bridge?

MackM said...

"....the diminished distinction between actual and commoditized injustice puts a sharp point in this divisiveness. Real injustices get dismissed by many along with the fake, with unfortunate results to the powerless."

So when Trump painted America as a "carnage", he did just that very thing.

wwww said...


Trump will be judged on the state of the economy, jobs, health care, security -- national security, local security, personal security.

There is an emotional component to all of it. Do people feel more secure with Trump as President? Do his actions as Commander-in-Chief and head diplomat worry you or comfort you?

Do you feel stress when you see him on TV? Or do you feel comforted?

People don't like stress and worry. He'll be judged on the level of stress and/or comfort invoked by his statements, his actions and his personal performance.

Larvell said...

I'm more worried about certitude allied with power.

traditionalguy said...

Cookie (Robert Cook) is my friend.

sunsong said...

That's a great quote - and the whole quote is even better. Right over the heads of most of your commenters, though ;-)

Michael K said...

Achilles, the difference between this blog and the lefty blogs is that we tolerate other opinions, even if they are kind of dumb.

I used to read and comment at lefty blogs, like Washington Monthly. I followed Kevin Drum from his own blog to Wash Monthly, then to Mother Jones.

I like Kevin even though we agree on almost nothing. He was honest back in 2004 when the fake GW Bush TANG "memo" was circulating. He did some research well before CBS got in to it and concluded there was no story. He wanted it to be true but found no truth.

Then Wash Monthly banned me because I would not support single payer and had a series of posts on my own blog on health care reform that did not support single payer. I happen to have an advanced degree in that topic.

Anyway, the lefties at Wash Monthly got angry and banned me. Then, after Kevin moved, Mother Jones banned me for no specific reason I could figure out.

That is the big difference between the right and the lefty trolls we see here. We tolerate them.

traditionalguy said...

And speaking of Power, when the Preacher lead prayers this morning and he got down to "Our President Donald Trump" it was surprisingly powerful, not routine at all, but powerful spiritually speaking. We are watching mighty history being made.

MackM said...

"That's a great quote - and the whole quote is even better. Right over the heads of most of your commenters, though ;-)"

Exactly!

boycat said...

In this context, true ignorance within individuals is both a constant and a variable, necessarily co-existing alongside subject matter, and within politicians it ought properly be seen as an opportunity to educate. That's what lobbyists do, after all. If it isn't working for you, it just might be you.

Simon Kenton said...

"...ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have."

Isn't this a perfect description of the alliance of gangs and politicians in Chicago, and its results?

Steve Uhr said...

Micheal K -- You really have no choice but to tolerate views different than your own on this blog since you don't have the power to ban anyone. If you could I bet you would ...

Bay Area Guy said...

I like Lord Acton's quote better: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

When the Left spouts slogans, I'm always thinking, "2 legs good, 4 legs bad" or "Here comes the new boss - same as the old boss"

Rance Fasoldt said...

So the women who were outraged by the crude things Trump said in private and in jest are celebrating the crude things women said in public, in protest?

Jupiter said...

Achilles said...

"Cook has been around for a long time. He has no critical thinking ability and hates the United States. He constantly says unjustifiable crap and is incapable of engaging or learning [a]s the above exchanges attest."

I tend to side with Michael K. Cookie is a pet. I have been studying him, trying to identify the species, but he is like one of those solitary bats that nest no-one-knows-where. His basic position is that the society in which we live is deeply flawed. Pretty hard to argue with that, now isn't it? But he is canny enough to go very light on the details, as to how it might be improved. I *think* he is an unreconstructed Bolshevik, a party-line Marxist, but if so he is remarkably quiet about it. Just, everything is corrupt, everyone is corrupt, all is corruption ....

Maybe he is a Baptist?

Jupiter said...

As to the "more just country" issue, I would guess Finland would be considerably juster than the US. Iceland. The Scandis, before they imported a boatload of crystalline Muslim injustice.

It is much easier to have justice when you have a homogeneous population with high intelligence, mutual trust and sympathy, and relatively low inequality. Multiculturalism is a recipe for injustice. Not sure what's up with Japan. I suspect they aren't terribly concerned with "justice".

walter said...

Simon Kenton said...Isn't this a perfect description of the alliance of gangs and politicians in Chicago, and its results?
--
Hmm.. I think more driven by self-serving corruption.

Jupiter said...

Rance Fasoldt said...
"So the women who were outraged by the crude things Trump said in private and in jest are celebrating the crude things women said in public, in protest?"

It was not the crudity of Trump's remarks that outraged the feminists. It was their manifest accuracy.

buwaya said...

An interesting question - next weekend is the annual March for Life. Recently attendance has been over 500,000. I wonder how it will be covered.

It would no doubt be telling if Trump were to address them.
They have not been personally addressed by a US President in decades I think.

Jon Ericson said...

Lovely

Hagar said...

The U.S. is a tumultuous place.
It is 800+ years since Norway had a civil war.

Paco Wové said...

"You are new here."

As a rule of thumb, whenever a "new" commenter pops up here spouting the standard lefty talking points, you can assume the commenter has been posting here for a while as one of the "Unknown"s. "MackM" is one such, having sockpuppeted under a variety of names since last summer. I don't know why they do it; maybe they think it gives the appearance of more support for their DNC FUD-spreading.

As far as the quote under discussion: I agree with Larvell that certitude, especially smug unthinking we're-on-the-right-side-of-history certitude, is far more dangerous when combined with power than "ignorance".

walter said...

Jon,
That sign is evergreen.
If only it could be harnessed to fight CAGW.

walter said...

I guess part of the approach here is to get in on the reduction of women to their genitalia.

Peter Irons said...

James Madison wrote, "Democracy without an educated and informed populace leads to either tragedy or farce." Yesterday's loud whining with claims of victimhood sure looks like farce.

And why was the crowd so overwhelmingly white? Isn't that worth some analysis and commentary?

53% of white women voted for Donald Trump.

Only 37% of whites voted for Clinton. that number is pretty close to the 30% of Hispanics who voted for Trump.

Achilles said...

Jupiter said...

It is much easier to have justice when you have a homogeneous population with high intelligence, mutual trust and sympathy, and relatively low inequality. Multiculturalism is a recipe for injustice. Not sure what's up with Japan. I suspect they aren't terribly concerned with "justice".

I was waiting for him to make that point. I would have continued the conversation without him eventually but you helped me out. It is sad that we can make their own arguments better than they can.

Of course the obvious response is that it is easy to be more juster than the US when you live under the umbrella of our military protection.

The best part will be when the fascism constantly descending on the US lands in Germany again. Merkel is going to lose resoundingly and be replaced by something very German that objects to German women being constantly sexually assaulted by immigrants.

Achilles said...

Steve Uhr said...
Achilles -- So we are to believe that when Trump said he didn't care which party was in power that he meant it? Want to buy a bridge?

If you missed it the GOPe is not particularly fond of Trump and many of the machine apparatchiks are siding with the democrats. Clinton won 93% of the vote in DC. Do you really think there are only 4% republicans in DC?

What Trump understood was that the people of this country don't like the mandarins in DC. He also correctly noted that republican voters weren't as stupid as democrat voters. We tossed our monarchical Bush family out as well as the rest of the oligarch tools. Democrats went with another Clinton.

Your attempt at a joke is embarrassingly dumb at this point.

walter said...

Madonna appeared to be wearing a black pussyhat.
Diversity.
Didn't deliver the blow jobs..won't blow up the WH.
Yet..she blows.

chuck said...

I think the quote falls into the category of fake erudition. Ignorance of what? All of us are ignorant of many things and even the most erudite will be ignorant or arguably wrong about some things in their specialties. And this is to ignore the fact that assholes may be found at all levels of intelligence and education. And what is the justice referred too? Is it an even handed application of the law, or is it along the lines of "social justice". The quote sounds to me like a variation of the pedestrian "all who don't act as I wish are stupid".

Mark said...

ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have

And therefore . . . if your group historically has not had power, you cannot be unjust.

walter said...

I note Dems place no particular value on being informed during GOTV activities.

Basil said...

How about "Collectivism, allied with the power of the state, is the greatest source of genocide and abuse possible."?

Injustice, in the criminal justice context, is not even in the same ball park with the evils of collectivism.

hstad said...

".....Bill, Republic of Texas said...Show me one example where the mass graves were based on a mistaken assumption?" The classic example is Karl Marx’s “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.” That particular "mistaken assumption" has literally cost millions of lives. Incredibly, despite having been proven false time and again since its first utterance, it continues to spread. The last time by Pol Pot which caused 20% of the population to die horribly in the re-education camps where they were sent to learn how to think correctly. Therefore, the low-information processors have so tightly embraced the 'Chicken Little' idea that the sky is falling due to the degradation of the environment, and that the governments of the world have responded by spending hundreds of billions of dollars fighting a fiction.

Michael K said...

"you don't have the power to ban anyone. If you could I bet you would ..."

Steve, I did not realize that you are a lefty. Lefties are into banning other opinions. The NRO site, or example, is over run with lefty trolls. The HuffPo "moderated" my comments for a long time but since they went nuts about Trump I have had no interest in going there. There is no conversation. Just hysteria.

I just think you are into projection. And I will note your hostility.

buwaya said...

Norway and Sweden had civil wars in 1814 and 1905-06, Norway attempting to secede from Sweden. They succeded in 1906.
It was as if the Confederacy won in 1862.

Also interesting is the Swiss civil war of 1847.

Little-known European wars.

Steve Uhr said...

Achilles - I agree with your last point. I don't think anyone not named Clinton would have lost to Trump.

Bruce Hayden said...

I agree with Dr K about Cook. Cook and Freder have been our pet leftists for quite some time. Many years, in fact. Both sometimes say things that are somewhat rational, but more often hew to left wing dogma. The thing is, they do try to think things through, and that shows in many of their comments. Sadly, this doesn't seem to be the case with most of the newer crop of leftists who have come here over the last several months. And, to them, I will suggest that they don't try shaming and the like, or spouting liberal talking points. Both are quickly recognized, and their purveyors quickly ignored. And to the poster who questioned Dr K's credentials here - he is well known and respected here, and you are not. We assume that you are a millennial living in your parents' basement, with nothing better to do, and know that he continues to practice medicine into his 70s, has served this country in uniform several times (and has done enlistment physicals even in recent years). He is also extremely well read, in a number of subjects (I have never been disappointed in the books that he has suggested), and is an expert, among other things, in the provision of health care.

Back to Cook - his comment about prison inmates is typical of his posting. He does apparently acknowledge that there are those, at the top, who are too powerful or too well connected to be held legally accountable for their actions (Crooked Hillary being a prime example), but then goes astray with what appears to me to be the typical leftist trope about racist justice. The reality is that very few are in prison for merely smoking pot. Mostly, it is for either violent crimes, or being actively involved in the sale of illegal drugs (and typically, not at the bottom) or having engaged in serious financial crimes. That said, the system is rigged, not against Blacks or Hispanics, but against the poor in particular, and the non-rich in general, simply because the state (which liberals love, and want to grow) has many more resources available when prosecuting people than are available from the same state when defending, for free, criminal defendants. That said, most of those in prison are very likely guilty of crimes, just maybe not the ones they plead to. That is because the same state actors are continuously engaging in triage, given their own limited budgets (including the costs of incarceration).

Jupiter said...

chuck said...
"I think the quote falls into the category of fake erudition."

As far as I can discern, fake erudition is pretty much what Baldwin provided. His popularity, such as it was, was an early instance of affirmative action.

YoungHegelian said...

@Steve Uhr,

I don't think anyone not named Clinton would have lost to Trump.

I would have agreed with that statement before Nov 6. Now, after seeing the electoral map, I'm not so sure.

I doubt Sanders would have won. Old, being the weird Jewish uncle most gentiles never had, socialist, & honeymooned in the USSR would have taken their toll as the election wore on. Who else? Slow Joe? Maybe, but Biden's run before, & he just doesn't set the river on fire for Dems or Repubs. I know that the Left likes Elizabeth Warren, but does anyone else? It would be like electing the Library Lady who spent her days shushing you & your buds.

There is probably some make-believe Democratic candidate who could have beaten Trump**, but among possible Dems, I'm not sure who that would be.

** make-believe, as in a 3rd term for Obama or Bill Clinton, both of whom could have beaten Trump.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bad Lieutenant said...

Robert Cook said...
"That quote is really pretty stupid. Ignorance allied with power is probably the less dangerous combination.

"Moral certainty allied with power is more dangerous."

What do you think underlies moral certainty?
1/22/17, 11:23 AM


Nobody on this planet perhaps, certainly nobody on this blog, Robert, evinces more moral certainty than you! So un-self-aware.

Otto said...

I guess one good thing about being a blogger with comments it prevents you from living in a bubble. You have just seen how divergent people's view of the Baldwin quote is that from yours. You should write a book about blogging.

n.n said...

Certainly not "social justice", which has historically been derived from internally, externally, and mutually inconsistent principles.

So, the middle class is the beneficiary of policies that grow the lower class and the upper class, thereby squeezing the middle class. It seems that both redistributive change and capitalist markets are designed to extract blood from the bulk of humanity. Perhaps the middle class is composed of masochists in dodo dynasties.

The middle class is raped by the Left and exploited by the Right. Principles matter.

Meanwhile, another delivery by the stork was chosen, reduced to a colorful clump of cells, and cannibalized for political progress. Some men were reduced to sperm depositors. Some women were reduced to womb banks. And others were reclassified as taxable eunuchs in service to the upper and lower classes.

Only in the twilight zone.

mockturtle said...

Bruce, another of Cookie's positive traits is that he posts on a variety of topics. Pulling all to the left, of course, but he's not a one-horse commenter, unlike our resident 'lifelong Republican' who is here only to bash Trump. I don't mind someone bashing Trump but I tend to tune them out if that's ALL they do.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

I will also defend Mike K.

Looking at his very round headshot, you may think the dude is fat. That sorta rounded head v an oblong head is often a sign of fatness, e.g. Christie.

But, w/ all his military experience, I'm sure that Mike K's headshot doesn't represent his bulkiness, or lack there of.

Unfortunately defending Bruce's mustache is too much of an ask. Sad!

Fabi said...

I rarely agree with Cook, but I find him to be sincere and generally polite.

Jon Ericson said...

Hey Bruce! Pee-Wee just raised its leg.

boycat said...

...fake erudition is pretty much what Baldwin provided. His popularity, such as it was, was an early instance of affirmative action.

In the 60s James Baldwin was required reading in my college English Comp class, Notes of a Native Son in particular. Overall I believe it added to my education, and I am better off for having read it. That said, activism, not writing, was Baldwin's main calling card.

Clyde said...

Might have been true in 1972, before political correctness and affirmative action. These days, not so much.

Anglelyne said...

Fabi: I rarely agree with Cook, but I find him to be sincere and generally polite.

Yes, he is.

Hagar said...

No, no buwaya,
We split from Denmark in 1814, or possibly you might say we were split from Denmark and "given" to Sweden.
Actually, iirc, we already had split from Denmark on our own and had even gotten ready to select a Danish prince, who had been serving as viceroy and was well liked, as our new king, when the Congress of Vienna intervened and arranged for us to be in a personal union with Sweden, i.e., have king and foreign service in common, but otherwise completely separate governments. I think this was Great Britain's idea to make sure the Sound no longer would be dominated by Denmark. Besides, Swedens new king, Karl Johan, otherwise known as Marshal Jean Baptiste Bernadotte of France, had joined the war against Napoleon on the Allied side and attacked Denmark-Norway and needed to be rewarded.
This arrangement did not work very well since, in the first place, Swedes and Norwegians are hereditary enemies going back to the Viking age, and secondly, Sweden is a Baltic nation while Norway faces the Atlantic and has shipping interests all over the world which the Swedes do not have any understanding of. So in 1905 we split from the Swedes as well. There were indeed threats of war, but this time "the Major Powers" worked to our advantage, what with Agadir and all, and told the Swedes to sit down and just let us go.
The connection with Denmark goes back to the Black Death, when the royal lines died out in Sweden and Norway and these two kingdoms were inherited by Queen Margarete of Denmark. Sweden rebelled and separated under a new royal line after 150 yers or so, but Norway remained united with Denmark. However, this was always a personal union, i.e., the king in common but separate governments. This was so even under the so-called autocratic monarchy after 1660. Norway and Denmark were always separate countries, so there could not be any civil war.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

Hagar gets all 17th of May-y.

Jupiter said...

Fabi said...

"I rarely agree with Cook, but I find him to be sincere and generally polite."

Cookie is kind of difficult to agree with. What he dislikes is clear, what he favors less so. Much less. And while it is true that he does not get angry, neither does he reveal anything of himself.

I am liking the bat metaphor more and more. He flies over our heads, deposits his opinions, and returns to the shadows, leaving us none the wiser as to whence he comes or to where he returns. Perhaps it is best not to inquire too deeply. Most mysteries prove to be tawdry at bottom.

Big Mike said...

@Bruce Hayden, count me out in your affection for Cookie. The bastard has called me a racist, and I have never forgiven the son of whore for it.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

Learned that lesson at the local J.P. Court.

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

My overly sensitive wife is feeling sorry for Green Bay. She also wants to know what The Packers pack. That's a hard one. Maybe meat, pork and beef packed into Brats.

The Falcons new coach has done an amazing rebuilding job to a bad team. He left Seattle and Atlanta has taken their place in football teamwork.

Trump needs to hire Dan Quinn for something.

tim in vermont said...

True, and a bunch of rich spoiled brats in Hollywood are a case in point.

JML said...

@Steve Uhr,

I don't think anyone not named Clinton would have lost to Trump.

Trump ran against Clinton. If he ran against Bernie or Biden, he would have run against them. Meaning, he would have campaigned in a way to beat them, not to beat Clinton. Remember, he did not campaign to win the popular vote, he campaigned to win the Presidency.

mockturtle said...

Trump needs to hire Dan Quinn for something.

Quinn used to be our [Seahawks] defensive coordinator. We hated to lose him but I'm happy to see him so successful. Coach of the Year, I should think. Slam-dunk.

buwaya said...

Hagar,
I concede to the Norwegian amour-propre on the issue.
This was actually a colonial war of liberation against the Swedish hegemons.

Paco Wové said...

"what he favors less so. Much less."

Cookie favors a government by angels. No earthly government will ever be pure enough for Cook.

campy said...

Packers seem poised for a comeback for the ages. And Matty Tepid Water is just the opponent to help them with it.

JML said...

campy, I sure hope so!

Birkel said...

Paco Wove:

That is almost the measure of Robert Cook. However, Cook believes when those angels should be jailed when they fail to be angels, as defined by Robert Cook.

In other words, Cook wishes to be dictator. He wishes to impose his views of angel-ness on others and punish them for calling short of his vision.

Robert Cook has evil beliefs. Given power, Robert Cook would commit evil acts.

Jupiter said...

Paco Wové said...

"Cookie favors a government by angels. No earthly government will ever be pure enough for Cook."

Who could could be so churlish as to find fault with government by angels? Or the next best thing, old, white males? Glad to know Cookie and I are on the same supremacist page. :)

hombre said...

Nitwits reconstituting one of the fascist elements of the Democrat Party that was disrupted by the election - feminist activists and their tools. Financing courtesy of George Soros, Communist organizations and Islamists.

Silly vagina brains.

Hagar said...

buwaya,
Norway and Denmark have both had their periods as "hegemons" in the northern countries, but Sweden never (though they created lots of trouble in Poland and neighboring countries for a while).

sinz52 said...

Mockturtle said: "Isn't it funny that...The Left hates and fear Russia so much? Now?
A novel with such unlikely situations would be tossed aside with contempt."

There was such an "It Can Happen Here" novel: "Come Nineveh, Come Tyre," in 1971, by Allen Drury.

In it, the usually dovish liberals are stunned when the new POTUS allows himself to become a Russian puppet. The POTUS accepts Russian "help" to defeat his political opponents--which includes both traditional liberals and traditional conservatives.

And all of a sudden, the Left discovers just what Russia is capable of--and why they have to stand up for America against Russia.

But you're right, the novel didn't sell very well. An American POTUS accepting Russian help against his political opponents seemed way too far-fetched back then.

Maybe they should reprint it now.

narciso said...

I thought Edward Jason, was much more like Obama, the battlefields were Panama and a thinly dusguisef Congo, gorotoland, Jason disarmed the military and intelligence service to the cheers of the press, notably Walter dobius

Greg Hlatky said...

Maybe they should reprint it now.

Now available as an e-book.

Drury's novels were derided at the time but were quite prescient in some ways, especially the MSM promoting an empty suit with ambition and the right views.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

Y'all are funny. As if we haven't heard your spin before:

"No puppet, no puppet.

You're the puppet.

No, you're the puppet."

Carry on.

Birkel said...

Is it content-free Sunday again, Lyin'PB?

Mark said...

I don't think anyone not named Clinton would have lost to Trump

An awful lot of people not named Clinton lost to Trump. All of them Republican, to be sure, but most of them some flavor of Establishment (which puts them in Hillary's neighborhood).

One thing that Trump's election should bury once and for all is that foolish, self-defeating idea of nominating "only the most electable conservative," which invariably meant nominating a squishy Establishment backstabbing moderate like Romney, McCain, Dole, Ford, et al.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

Same as the other six days, every week.

It's jarring when I see that some folks here don't get the joke that these threads are.

Anywho, please do carry on w/ your brilliant content.

Birkel said...

Not my thread.
Others have my attention.

But chops will not bust themselves.

n.n said...

#TwilightHumor

SukieTawdry said...

I find that quote a little muddled. Of what are the powerful ignorant?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

I dunno. Stalin wasn't ignorant of the suffering and death his exercise if power caused. Nor was Mao. Nor was, sorry, Hitler.

Certitude combined with power seems likely to be a pretty vicious enemy of justice.

damikesc said...

Reported by the NY Times: The Soros ties to over 50 groups who protested in DC:

http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2017/01/20/billionaire-george-soros-has-ties-to-more-than-50-partners-of-the-womens-march-on-washington/

Yep. Just a spontaneous display of righteous anger.


As said elsewhere, the Left truly believed the Tea Party was astroturf because ALL of their protests are astroturfed.

Perhaps it's time for a deep dive into Soros.

Quaestor said...

As has been pointed out several times on this blog the Women's March has dealt traditional feminism a crippling if not fatal blow.

To keep it fair I propose an equally dissonant and cacophonous "Men's March on Washington," complete with suitably objectifying iconography. Giant papier-mâché phalli thankfully remain too gauche even for D.C. sensibilities. A gargantuan crocheted brain might do the trick.

mockturtle said...

Giant papier-mâché phalli thankfully remain too gauche even for D.C. sensibilities.

Nah. They would think it was a Gay Pride parade.

Known Unknown said...

Anyone remember the movie Network?

Quaestor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Quaestor said...

Jamali meets the largest Neo-Nazi group in America

All two of them.

William Chadwick said...

Well, you can't get much more ignorant than the average "liberal" under Obama. They're still trying to repeal the Law of Supply and Demand. Imagine, if you will, President Berne Sanders . . .