December 3, 2016

"China's reaction is relatively mild. It doesn't want to get off on the wrong foot with Mr Trump."

"And it sees Mr Trump as an inexperienced politician, so for now it's willing to forgive him and not play this up."
It may also be somewhat reassured by statements from the US that its policy on China and Taiwan has not changed. But behind the scenes it's safe to say China is working hard to "educate" the Trump team on not repeating such diplomatic faux pas.
Trump didn't know what he was doing?

ADDED: Trump is in a position to leverage other people's belief that he doesn't know what he is doing. Those not burdened by feelings of inferiority and incompetence can resist showing off how much they know and even lure those who think they're smart into giving away more than they would if they believed their antagonist had superior knowledge and skill.

One used to hear of clever lawyers who got their adversaries to perceive them as just an old country lawyer.

AND: From "So, Why Can't You Call Taiwan?" by David A. Graham in The Atlantic:
As is typically the case with Trump, it’s hard to tell whether this blithe overturning of protocol is intentional or simply a result of not knowing, or caring, better.

There are various reasons Trump might be intentionally poking China. Trump spoke harshly about China throughout his presidential campaign, accusing Beijing of currency manipulation, land-grabbing, and taking advantage of the United States. He also showed a willingness, if not an eagerness, to slaughter nearly every sacred cow of American foreign policy.

Some Trump confidants have suggested existing policy on Taiwan should become one of them. John Bolton, who served as Bush’s ambassador to the UN, has been advising Trump, and Bolton has been a very public advocate of the U.S. cozying up to Taiwan in order to show strength against China....
IN THE COMMENTS: MayBee said:
Remember when Obama made the Dalai Lama go in the back door, past the trash bags? To not anger the Chinese?

Obama's foreign policy is to cower. We are weak, but he talks about how essential we are. I don't know if Trump is going to be a disaster or a delight, but I can't hear criticisms of him right now because I'm too busy looking at the fecklessness of our current president.

112 comments:

JPS said...

I'm starting to be pretty impressed with Scott Adams' predictive abilities.

robinintn said...

Kicking China on the teeth. Diplomats aghast. I'm starting to like this fella.

Hagar said...

I think Ms. Tsai certainly knew what she was doing, and Mr. Trump was not averse to sending a message to Beijing without actually appearing to be the instigator.

Curious George said...

"But behind the scenes it's safe to say China is working hard to "educate" the Trump team on not repeating such diplomatic faux pas."

I think it's safe to say that the author is an idiot.

MayBee said...

Remember in 2009 when China and India told Obama they were leaving a conference, but they really hid from him and talked to each other? Hahahahaha

And remember in 2016 when China didn't have stairs and a delegation to greet Obama on his arrival? hahahahaha


Let's do foreign policy just like Obama instead of this netball Trump who is going to mess things up

Birches said...

This could not be more tempest in a teapot. I had no idea we had no diplomatic relations with Taiwan, which seems silly.

mezzrow said...

My old man used to call that sort of thing an "attention getter"...

Who is playing knave or fool now?

cyrus83 said...

I think Trump knows what he was doing in taking that call. He is not a big fan of China and this is a relatively mild way of alerting the Chinese that he does not intend to be as obsequious as the last several administrations have been.

Note also that it's not the first time he's spoken to Taiwan's president, having similarly called to congratulate her back in January when she won election.

David Begley said...

Has Dylan called Trump?

mockturtle said...

I think Ms. Tsai certainly knew what she was doing, and Mr. Trump was not averse to sending a message to Beijing without actually appearing to be the instigator.

Exactly! Ann's 'country lawyer' was spot on, in fact. The 'bull in the china shop' metaphor may be a handy subterfuge but, in fact, his actions are calculated and strategic.

Sally327 said...

Do the Chinese really think he's inexperienced? Or do they assume that much of what Trump is for domestic consumption only and they needn't trouble themselves unduly. A reaction is needed, yes, they don't want a lack of one to be construed the wrong way, so they react with, oh, he's new, he's inexperienced.

Or maybe they're like the rest of us, scratching their heads and wondering, who is this Trump person and why does he do what he does? Trump reminds me of a quote from Gamal Nasser:

"The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make the rest of us wonder at the possibility that we might be missing something."

gspencer said...


Trump is practicing good foreign policy.

"Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be
unfurled, there will her [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she [America] goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy.[*] SHE IS THE WELL-WISHER TO THE FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE OF ALL. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will recommend the general cause, by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example."

John Quincy Adams, Speech, July 4, 1821 (emphasis added).

[*] This was a time (post-War of 1812 to about 1848, the so-called Era of Good Feelings), well before the period the CFR and so-called neo-cons hadn't wrapped their war-inclined fingers around American foreign policy, and a time when obedience to the Constitution meant something.

MadisonMan said...

Some of the comments I read in my Facebook feed on this -- from acquaintances who are still in the mourning phase of Trump's election -- have been hilariously over the top, as if Trump committed the most severe faux pas.

I'm happy that Trump appears to be unpredictable to the Chinese.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Pretty simple. Obama was clueless or deliberately trying to weaken America. Trump is neither.

Rob said...

I agree with your premise that those not burdened by feelings of inferiority and incompetence can resist showing off how much they know, but I profoundly disagree that describes Trump. He's a walking talking inferiority complex, which he tries to hide by defensive mechanisms. Here's a guy who couldn't get into any college better than Fordham, transferred to Penn in junior year after they just happened to start a real estate program (I'm guessing funded by Fred), whose business record is spotted with failures, who engages in bravado and sexual conquests and bullying. I voted for him, but I have no illusions he's a well-integrated, self-confident individual.

MayBee said...

Remember when Obama made the Dalai Lama go in the back door, past the trash bags? To not anger the Chinese?

Obama's foreign policy is to cower. We are weak, but he talks about how essential we are. I don't know if Trump is going to be a disaster or a delight, but I can't hear criticisms of him right now because I'm too busy looking at the fecklessness of our current president.

iowan2 said...

Does anyone else get the sense that doing what has been prescribed by the experts is not really the way to move communication forward? I fail to see the danger here.
Attempting to divine Trumps motives is a fools errand. Hard to figure out motive if we have no idea of the goal. Which is exactly why Trumps actions dont square with the establishment. For more the 50 years Trump has been a man of action. Decisions, results, evaluations, adjustments, actions, information gathering, decisions, actions, evaluations... sometime repeated 15 times over an hour, sometimes a couple of times over a year. Trump like all successful people are people of action. Make decisions, move. Not every decision works out, but that does not paralyze them. They adapt and make a new decision. Trump is not going to be poured into the mold the media demands. He sees his own way forward. I'm guessing that way is not going to be recognized by a media that thinks history only goes back to events they can remember. It is clear that Trump is a learned man. He has crafted a persona over decades that does not highlight his intelligence, and accomplishments. Yes I know he brags. BRAGS. Everyone takes boasts with a grain of salt. Again a carefully crafted persona.

khesanh0802 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
khesanh0802 said...

As I said in the WSJ "This is a symbolic thumb in the eye for China. They will know exactly what he is doing." He certainly got the Chinese' attention in a hurry. He is going to make it very clear to them that "there is a new sheriff in town". ( It's cliche Saturday!)

MayBee said...

So we're back to talking about Republican Presidents who can only get into the Ivy league because of their fathers, and their daddy issues and stupidity?

Quaestor said...

But behind the scenes it's safe to say China is working hard to "educate" the Trump team on not repeating such diplomatic faux pas.

If anyone is about to be educated it is China on the matter of Scarborough Shoals and international law.

It's safe to say the BBC needs a bit of schooling.

mockturtle said...

In foreign policy, as in poker, one needs to keep one's cards close to the vest.

Michael K said...

I voted for him, but I have no illusions he's a well-integrated, self-confident individual.

You sound like those "life long Republicans" who are always calling Rush Limbaugh to say they are finally done with the GOP.

Forgive me if I doubt you.

robother said...

Trump doesn't let China dictate who he may accept telephone calls from? What's next, letting the Dalai Lama come in the front door of the White House?
There was a sound foreign policy objective for Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush I cozying up to China (defeating the USSR). Sadly, even after that objective was accomplished, Clinton, Bush II and Obama continued to allow China to prohibit POTUS from communicating with Taiwan or Tibetans (to say nothing of one-sided trade deals).

You don't stop China's military expansionism or renegotiate trade deals from a position of weakness. Trump understands this.

rhhardin said...

Fewer US jobs go to China is the first result.

Rob said...

Sorry if you doubt me, Michael K., but I voted for Trump, I take huge pleasure in the hyperventilation of the left at his election and I've been a Republican for decades. That doesn't blind me, however, to Trump's manifest deficiencies. And for what it's worth, I have no problem with his taking a call from Taiwan. Sending a message to China could easily have been something he desired. All I object to is the idea that he's confident with his abilities.

TerriW said...

Columbo diplomacy!

tcrosse said...

Ann's 'country lawyer' calls to mind Sen. Sam Ervin of Watergate fame. He played the pore ole country lawyer shtick pretty heavy for a guy from Harvard Law.

Just an old country lawyer said...

When I hear another lawyer insist that he's "just an old country lawyer" I reach for my pistol.

Virgil Hilts said...

Somewhat off topic (and do not know if Ann has ever linked to these), but there are two guys, one British, one American, both married to Chinese women, who ride motorcycles around Guangdong talking about what it is like to live there. Really interesting stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9eXi3RL8q4&feature=youtu.be&t=55

Ann Althouse said...

"Ann's 'country lawyer' calls to mind Sen. Sam Ervin of Watergate fame. He played the pore ole country lawyer shtick pretty heavy for a guy from Harvard Law. "

Yeah, check where my link goes.

D. B. Light said...

China has gotten used to trolling new American presidents just to see what they can get away with; Trump has reversed the dynamic. He's trolling them, and it was masterfully done.

EDH said...

"One used to hear of clever lawyers who got their adversaries to perceive them as just an old country lawyer."

Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer

Ladies and Gentleman of the jury, I'm just a Caveman. I fell in some ice and later got thawed out by your scientists. Your world frightens and confuses me.

Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my BMW and run off into the hills or whatever. Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine, did little demons get inside and type it? I don't know. My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.


Kristian Holvoet said...

So I guess the question is, is he Inspector Clouseau or Columbo?

EDH said...

Phil Hartman, RIP

Unknown said...

Check Trump twitter. If we are selling military to Taiwan how can it be part of China?

damikesc said...

Why should we cowtow to China? They aren't an ALLY. They are a business partner at best. You should treat them as a business partner. Our ALLIES are very few in number (UK, Canada, and Israel are the biggest) and our relationships should be treated accordingly. If the UK says "Please do not do this", we should abide by their request as much as possible? China? Nah.

We do not tell China "Well, you cannot talk to (fill in useless shithole)". Why should we abide by their demands? Because they own our debt? Their problem, not ours.

Robert Cook said...

"Kicking China on the teeth. Diplomats aghast. I'm starting to like this fella."

Why do want to kick China in the teeth? Why do we want to kick Russia in the teeth? As long as we are in antagonistic relationships with these two global powers, there is always the danger of catastrophic global war.

The above is a rhetorical question, of course. We want to kick our main competitors in the teeth to assert our dominance. As our power inevitably wanes, we will act more rashly to reestablish it. We don't want cooperation with these nations, if it means we must cede some of our dominance to dictate terms. The psychopaths in power believe we can win in outright conflict with them--we can't--and they will take down the world as a consequence.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Isn't Trump's China policy to get them to raise prices? Of course they are going to play along.

MayBee said...

I believe diplomacy is important, but I also think rules have been made around it- kind of like the scoring for tennis- so that people think only the very special people can play.

Quaestor said...

As our power inevitably wanes, we will act more rashly to reestablish it.

Cook has learned nothing nor forgotten nothing. Typical.

Gahrie said...

The phone call was a message to Beijing that there is going to be a different sheriff in town...and they got the message.

Gahrie said...

Why do want to kick China in the teeth? Why do we want to kick Russia in the teeth? As long as we are in antagonistic relationships with these two global powers, there is always the danger of catastrophic global war.

Earth to Cookie....we are in an antagonistic relationship with those two countries because they want it so.

Of course we could just roll over for them, which is exactly what your handlers want us to do.

Steve Uhr said...

Trump should have at least given the administration the head's up before talking to Taiwan. I'm sure he would have expected the same if the situation had been reversed. Maybe official policy re China/Taiwan makes no sense but that doesn't excuse Trump's conduct. He is not President.

Original Mike said...

"Earth to Cookie....we are in an antagonistic relationship with those two countries because they want it so."

Something people far more important than Cookie (cough)Obama(cough) do not understand.

Gahrie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Original Mike said...

"Trump should have at least given the administration the head's up before talking to Taiwan."

Why?

Gahrie said...

We don't want cooperation with these nations, if it means we must cede some of our dominance to dictate terms.

Cede some of our dominance = roll over with our paws in the air

The psychopaths in power

See...your basic mistake is that you don't realize that they are the psychopaths, and we are the good guys.

believe we can win in outright conflict with them--

We have spent 70 years trying to avoid war with them

we can't--and they will take down the world as a consequence.

I don't think China or Putin will....I'm betting they both calm down when the Trump administration begins.

Now Iran........

Bad Lieutenant said...

Curiously, Bob, the Russians and the Chinese have seen no reason to conciliate us (despite your unvoiced but blatant belief that they are the good guys vs. us, who can only be bad), and they don't seem to fear global war. So why be different? We're all animals, right?

Sayyid said...

"ADDED: Trump is in a position to leverage other people's belief that he doesn't know what he is doing. Those not burdened by feelings of inferiority and incompetence can resist showing off how much they know and even lure those who think they're smart into giving away more than they would if they believed their antagonist had superior knowledge and skill."

One of my favorite negotiation ploys to this day is pretending I haven't even read what I'm negotiating before I show up, let alone formed any opinions on it. If the other side doesn't recognize what you're doing, you can get them to argue against themselves.

Sort of like when China argues it's no big deal that the President-elect took a call from someone they don't even consider a legitimate leader.

clint said...

Interesting that this supposedly sophisticated analyst can't see any good reason President-Elect Trump might have done this.

As I wrote last night: "This is the diplomatic equivalent of his tweeting an extreme policy position: it gives him something to "back off" from in future negotiations with China."

Staking out negotiating positions is what Trump *does*. It doesn't say much for David Graham or the Atlantic that the obvious answer never occurred to them.

China, however, appears to get it.

Gahrie said...

Somebody used my cliche before me....

Bad Lieutenant said...

Steve Uhr-->He is not President.

Then there's no problem.

But yeah, talk about knowing your place! At least Trump could have the dignity to run around with a lectern emblazoned with the Seal of the Office of the President Elect. Didn't Obama suggest that Bush should just go home early and let him start running things?

Gahrie said...

We're all animals, right?

Four legs good, two legs better.........

traditionalguy said...

The Art of the Deal meets Chinese Communist rulers who are now posturing expansion mode to find a way to control 20,000,000 surplus single 20 something year old males. But their command/crony economy is as fragile as a house of cards and they know it.

Original Mike said...

"He is not President."

For long-term issues like foriegn policy, he pretty much is.

Steve Uhr said...

Original Mike -- Why? Because there might be certain confidential FACTS regarding the complex relationship between US/China/Taiwan that Trump did not know and that might have influenced Trump's approach. Perhaps not, but he owed it to the administration (and prior administrations including Bush I and Bush II)to get their input.

It is not only about personality and sticking your finger in Obama's eye.

William said...

Here's what I know about Taiwan: It's a democracy with a western standard of living. It has a female president, and she has a pleasant, kindly face. Here's what I know about Red China: Mao murdered 50 to 70 million Chinese citizens, sometimes in the most barbaric way possible. Mao's portrait hangs over Tiannemen Square, and the current leadership venerates his memory.......Here's what I know about the left: They claim that we should not cosy up to murderous dictatorships and that we should respect democracies that abide by the rule of law.......Based on this information, I have my views as to who I think are the good guys and who are the hypocrites.......Every day I feel better about my vote for Trump.

Marc Puckett said...

Agree with Steve Uhr. The telephone call itself is entirely defensible but... on the other hand, perhaps in some way or another Mr Obama's administration is unlike any previous ones.

Original Mike said...

"It is not only about personality and sticking your finger in Obama's eye."

I doubt this had anything to do with Obama.

Seeing Red said...

Do we sell them weapons?

If so, what's the problem?

And the Taiwanese president is a SHE!

Can u imagine if he didn't take the call?

Mysogenistic! Sexist!

Seeing Red said...

Like I said, when the ChiComs have to haul Kissenger's 93-y.o. Ass to China,

I read they don't get Trump cos he doesn't have a political trail.

Bwaaaaaa

Gahrie said...

I doubt this had anything to do with Obama.

You haven't been paying attention...everything is about Obama.

Original Mike said...

Well, for some people.

Seeing Red said...

Besides, a phone call is so much more benign and civilized than forcing down one of our military planes, capturing our crew and making them recite all the words to Hotel California, isn't it?

Original Mike said...

We sell them weapons but we can't talk to them. How fucked up is that?

Seeing Red said...

Putin may already be settling down.

Rantburg is a good place for articles like that.

Seeing Red said...

Exactly, Mike.

Robert Cook said...

"Earth to Cookie....we are in an antagonistic relationship with those two countries because they want it so."

Yes...it's always their fault. The peace-loving and all-beneficent USA must always exercise the restraint only possible due to our saintly nature.

Talk about a low information voter.

Gahrie said...

Yes...it's always their fault.

Please explain how Putin invading Crimea and threatening Eastern Europe is our fault. Explain how China building strategic islands and saber rattling around Asia is our fault.


The peace-loving and all-beneficent USA

I'd say that's a pretty good definition. We are clearly the most peace-loving and beneficent country in human history.

must always exercise the restraint only possible due to our saintly nature.

You guys are the ones who want us to show restraint...I want us to show resolve.

Robert Cook said...

"See...your basic mistake is that you don't realize that they are the psychopaths, and we are the good guys."

Hahahaha!

There are no "good guys" in seats of power, there are only those planning and acting in order to maximize their self-interests. As the post-WWII king of the world, the USA is supremely jealous of its power and will not relinquish an iota of it without a fight.

Gahrie said...

There are no "good guys" in seats of power,

Anybody who cannot see the fundamental goodness of the western democracies as opposed to the evil of the Left's totalitarian collectivism is either willfully ignorant or a tool.

there are only those planning and acting in order to maximize their self-interests.

That is the proper role of government, to operate in the interests of the nations they govern.

As the post-WWII king of the world,

Your handlers in the USSR would have a different opinion of that....

the USA is supremely jealous of its power

You're kidding right? The US desires to be an isolationist nation, and always has. However W.W.I and W.W. II showed how irresponsible that is.


and will not relinquish an iota of it without a fight.

Whereas everyone else is always relinquishing their power without a fight......

Unknown said...

Robert Cook sees the US as the worlds enemy. It's that simple. He wants America to be humiliated. He wants American troops to die. In his deepest fantasies, he wants the Hammer and Sickle flying above DC, with Russian or Chinese troops patrolling the streets, shooting all the "dissenters" who want things like "liberty." He wants this because he, like many other leftists, read the story of Quisling and think that it sounds great. Besides, betraying America is a good thing, not bad.

So of course Robert Cook roots for the evil in the world.... they are opposed to America, so they must be good, not evil! Only when Freedom loving Americans are crushed under a fascist or communist boot is the world safe, right Robert?

--Vance

bgates said...

As is typically the case with Trump, it’s hard to tell whether this blithe overturning of protocol is intentional or simply a result of not knowing, or caring, better. ...[Trump] also showed a willingness, if not an eagerness, to slaughter nearly every sacred cow of American foreign policy.


Earlier from the same publication:

As Goldberg shows, Obama—so self-assured, so rational, so alone—has repeatedly tossed aside what he derides as the “Washington playbook” on foreign affairs.

But it was smart when Obama did it - unfortunately, not so obviously smart as to be understandable by the common American (or Libyan, or Syrian, or Iraqi, or Ukrainian, or &c &c)

Yancey Ward said...

Trump was correct to take the call regardless of the policies of the sitting President and his government; and he should not apologize for doing so, and for doing so without alerting the White House first.

Two things- he isn't a government official yet, so he isn't bound by the official policy, and secondly, come January 20th he will be the government official who can set the policy.

Trump 1, policy journalists nil.

Robert Cook said...

"Robert Cook sees the US as the worlds enemy. It's that simple. He wants America to be humiliated. He wants American troops to die. In his deepest fantasies, he wants the Hammer and Sickle flying above DC, with Russian or Chinese troops patrolling the streets, shooting all the "dissenters" who want things like "liberty." He wants this because he, like many other leftists, read the story of Quisling and think that it sounds great. Besides, betraying America is a good thing, not bad.

"So of course Robert Cook roots for the evil in the world.... they are opposed to America, so they must be good, not evil! Only when Freedom loving Americans are crushed under a fascist or communist boot is the world safe, right Robert?"


Wrong. Sounds like you're having a bad acid flashback to me, (or a perverse wet dream).

The US is the world's enemy today, (meaning, in the post-WWII era), as we are the world's most powerful nation and any "most powerful nation" or empire of any given era will always be the world's enemy. It's axiomatic, as the great power will want to continue to hold fast to and even increase its power and control.

I don't want the USA to be humiliated or for troops to die, (this seems to be the intent of those who send our troops to fight the aggressive wars we keep starting). I want us to come to our senses and realize we live on a warming planet with an increasing population and diminishing resources. I want the USA to realize that only in cooperation and partnership with the nations of the world can anyone hope to survive.

I don't think the above will happen. I think major catastrophes await all of us.

SukieTawdry said...

I bet Ms Tsai 'bout peed her panties when he took the call. Although it probably went something like this: One of Ms Tsai's people reaches out to one of Mr. Trump's people and asks, "If Ms Tsai calls President-elect Trump to congratulate him on his election, will he take the call?" "You bet he'll take the call. He'd love to stick it to that SOB Xi."

We had to listen ad nauseam about the transformative nature of an Obama presidency. Won't it be a kick in the teeth if it's the Trump administration that actually does the transforming.

Unknown said...

So Robert, you essentially admitted I was correct. You do hate the US, you think it should be destroyed.

Plainly, you do not want the US to be the dominant world power. You cried tears of sorrow when the Berlin Wall fell, didn't you? When Gorbachev signed the order dissolving the Soviet Union, you wept bitterly, no doubt.

For if the US is not the dominant power, as you openly admit you desire, then who? The only other choices are Russia and China. After all, I somehow doubt that you long for the return of the British Empire.

So, Russia or China, ascendant. That's what you want. Both countries where human rights don't exist. Where "dissidents" are gunned down without pause. That's what you want, by your own admission!

The United States is NOT the worlds enemy, Robert. True, it is the enemy of evil, fascist/communist dictatorships who desire to rule the world with an iron fist. Rightly, those countries regard the US as their enemy. Clearly you place yourself in that category.

Ask Poland, Romania, South Korea if the US world might makes us their enemy. Ask the South Vietnamese whether they are better off because people like you made the US lose that war. You cried tears of joy watching the fall of Saigon, no doubt. The screams of the women and children being raped and murdered by communist troops, because Democrats forced the US to abandon them: that was music to your ears!

Why does the left desire evil so much? Why do they praise Castro and Che and revile Washington and Jefferson? Pol Pot is a hero, while Harriet Tubman is the enemy.

Leftists long for General Zukhov, while despising General Patton. You hate the idea that people should be free instead of controlled. It's that simple, it really is.

--Vance

SukieTawdry said...

"The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make the rest of us wonder at the possibility that we might be missing something."

I love it!

n.n said...

China can have their sphere of influence, but while America is capable of asserting global jurisdiction, the Chinese will need to reconcile their interests with their neighbors.

rcocean said...

"Ervin was also a staunch opponent of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 which abolished nationality quotas beginning in 1968. He felt that the principle of tying allowed numbers of immigrants from a given country to the number of people who had ancestral origins in that country and lived in the United States should be retained"

Ervin was one of those funny Southern Democrats who did everything possible to stop Civil Rights, the 1965 immigration act, in the SENATE and then everything possible to elect a Democrat POTUS who'd pass everything he was supposedly against. He helped bring down Joe McCarthy and Nixon, although if either had been a Democrat he probably would've supported them.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Tammy Bruce re-tweet:

Normalized relations with Cuba's dictator: HERO!
Made nuke deal with Iran's mullahs: HERO!
Spoke to Taiwan's president: MORON

Lance said...

So the President unilaterally restores relations with a murdering, rights-abusing regime in Cuba but the President-Elect can't take a phone call from the democratic, relatively rights-honoring President of Taiwan?

mockturtle said...

Cookie explains: I want the USA to realize that only in cooperation and partnership with the nations of the world can anyone hope to survive.

And just how likely is this 'cooperation and partnership'? Bless your heart, Cookie. You are an idealist. And, while I seldom agree with you, I like you. :-)

rcocean said...

As trump - does anyone think Taiwan should be part of China? Its been independent for almost 70 years, and hasn't been ruled by China since 1895.

Unknown said...

Oh he knew damn well what he was doing, which makes it even worse. If he were to be even half the President Obama is we will be lucky.

Unknown said...

Vance, you be trippin'.

exhelodrvr1 said...

"If he were to be even half the President Obama is we will be lucky."

That's not nearly good enough. We need him to be much less than half the president Obama has been.

Unknown said...

rcocean: Sure, I think Taiwan and China belong together. With Taiwan in charge. Chiang Ke-shek has just as valid a claim to rule China as did Mao. And they still have that claim.

I wonder if the people of China would prefer to trade in the Communists for the Taiwanese government, too.

But that would make Robert unhappy, since Communism would be losing. Again.

--Vance

Robert Cook said...

"So Robert, you essentially admitted I was correct. You do hate the US, you think it should be destroyed.

"Plainly, you do not want the US to be the dominant world power. You cried tears of sorrow when the Berlin Wall fell, didn't you? When Gorbachev signed the order dissolving the Soviet Union, you wept bitterly, no doubt.

"For if the US is not the dominant power, as you openly admit you desire, then who?"


Feeble, Vance, pretending to misread (or purposely misrepresenting) any part of what I said so you claim I "admitted (you were) correct." Really feeble.

I do not think anyone should be the dominant power. That just transfers the the same conditions of "the great power wanting to hold on to and expand its power" to another entity, thus continuing the damage done by imperial exercise of power. This has been largely the history of the world. The nations should exist in cooperation and partnership, as I said, to mitigate conditions that will lead to annihilation and to better lead to conditions that will allow for survival of humankind.

As I said, I don't think any of this will happen. Catastrophe awaits.

Robert Cook said...

Mockturtle asks: "And just how likely is this 'cooperation and partnership'?"

Not likely at all. I think great and terrible devastation--natural and man-made--is in our near future.

eddie willers said...

I just want him to call it "Formosa".

readering said...

Trump's tweets afterwards did not sound like those of a man who had planned anything (and they are contradicted by Taiwan news report regarding genesis). Foreign Policy by Twitter! (down with cables).

Z said...

I had JUST put a comment on my blog about CHina's mild reaction and what I thought that meant and was thrilled to see your same opinion here...good thinking :-)

Gahrie said...

The US is the world's enemy today, (meaning, in the post-WWII era

Because of course, during W.W. II they were helping Uncle Joe and his merry men survive.

Gahrie said...

I want the USA to realize that only in cooperation and partnership with the nations of the world can anyone hope to survive.

Yeah, North Korea, Iran, Russia, China, Syria, and Islamic terrorists are all about cooperation and partnership...........

Gahrie said...

I think major catastrophes await all of us.

So did Paul Ehrlich, Al Gore and Michael Mann......

Gahrie said...

As trump - does anyone think Taiwan should be part of China? Its been independent for almost 70 years, and hasn't been ruled by China since 1895.

The Taiwanese do. At least the Chinese ruling class. They are just as intractable on this issue as the Chinese are. Both regimes consider Taiwan to be a part of a greater China, they just disagree as to who the legitimate rulers are.

Paul McKaskle said...

When he was a lawyer in Alabama Hugo Black was very successful as a folksy "country lawyer." It is reflected in some of hie Supreme Court opinions. See, e.g., Black's dissent in NATIONAL EQUIPMENT RENTAL, LTD., v. SZUKHENT 375 U.S. 311 (1964),

Alex said...

Do we really want to take sides between the PRC & ROC? Are we willing to go to war over that? Risk our entire economy on some simplistic ideals?

No way, let's just funnel more of that Clinton Foundation cash to the PRC and make nice.

Alex said...

Gharie - fascinating to read about PRC vs ROC. They both believe they rule all of China. Do you think Trump knows any of this? I think Mitt Romney does and Trump needs level heads around him.

Hagar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hagar said...

The idea that the Mainland is part of Taiwan probably is not very real to any Taiwanese under 80 years of age.
Chiang Kai-shek's son, Chiang Ching-kuo, actually did a fairly good job of governing Taiwan and brought about a conciliation of sorts between the resident Taiwanese and the Kuomintang migrants, and after 67 years Taiwan really is becoming a separate nation.
It is the Communists who still do homage to Mao and don't know how to stop.

MikeR said...

Crazy business. There is an independent country called Taiwan. China has no business being upset if we talk to them. Crazy.

mockturtle said...

Taiwan doesn't hold a seat at the UN. But then, neither should we.

Robert Cook said...

"Because of course, during W.W. II they were helping Uncle Joe and his merry men survive."

Like it or not, Russia did the greater work of defeating the German army than did the allies.

narciso said...

They had also purged the better part of their officer corps, trained the German army interwar, of course the pact that split poland

mockturtle said...

Like it or not, Russia did the greater work of defeating the German army than did the allies.

The Russian weather, terrain and the Russian military, yes. I agree. Of course, it was actually Hitler who lost the War in Russia. Certainly, Russia took the biggest toll in terms of casualties. Because we are supposed to hate Stalin [and I do], we want to throw the baby out with the bath water regarding Russia's role in WWII.

mockturtle said...

Oh, but Cookie--Russia WAS an 'ally'. ;-)

Gahrie said...

Like it or not, Russia did the greater work of defeating the German army than did the allies.

Another great example of a Kinsley gaffe....

You forget Comrade Cookie...the USSR was supposed to be one of the Allies.

Gretchen said...

Trump is a negotiator. He knows what he is doing. China is terrified of him because they aren't sure what he will do.

Let's be clear about exactly how much China respects Obama, Obama had to deplane through the belly of the plane because the Chinese declined to give him stairs to deplane, then harassed media and staff, informing them it was their airport. I'll be surprised if they do that to Trump. Foreign leaders are scared Of Trump, and that's okay.

Robert Cook said...

"You forget Comrade Cookie...the USSR was supposed to be one of the Allies."

Of course. I should have said, "more than than the rest of the allies."