November 27, 2016

"In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally."

Tweeted Donald Trump today. Also:
It would have been much easier for me to win the so-called popular vote than the Electoral College in that I would only campaign in 3 or 4-states instead of the 15 states that I visited. I would have won even more easily and convincingly (but smaller states are forgotten)!
Where does he get the idea of millions of people voting illegally? It's not very confidence-building to tweet stuff like that!

ADDED: Is this Trump back in campaign mode — because of the recount? The recounters have their craziness in motion, so he's throwing chaos back at them? He knows how to fight hard. That's how he won. If you provoke the animal to fight, he fights. 

332 comments:

1 – 200 of 332   Newer›   Newest»
Qwinn said...

There are many millions of illegals in California alone, and not only is there no legal penalty if they vote (all they have to do is claim they didn't know they weren't allowed), it's positively encouraged, by every Democrat up to and including Obama himself.

Under those circumstances, I'd be surprised if it was anything less than millions.

boycat said...

There were an estimated 2 million illegal votes in LA County alone.

Steven Wilson said...

I would suppose that he, and many of his supporters, get the idea there is a lot of illegal voting going on because of the Democrats'
resistance to any form verifying voters and insuring people aren't voting in more than one jurisdiction and that illegals aren't voting, But mostly it's that resisting requiring voter ID thing. I don't know about millions, but I'm certain it happens.

Eric said...

The time has come to begin insulting Hillary relentlessly.

I also have a feeling that committing to an aggressive investigation into illegal voting may lead the DNC to rethink the wisdom of their current acttions.

Unknown said...

How does he get such ideas? He is a conspiracy theory buff. Don't forget, he is still an antivaxxer. The Russians, his pals, may have hacked into voting machines and interefered with our election, yet he focuses on "millions" of nonexistent illegal votes.

You people voted for this doofus.

Ann Althouse said...

Okay, if this is really true, point to the evidence.

It comes across as wacky to me.

Lauderdale Vet said...

It has been said in some places, snopes found it to be "unproven", but I imagine it's really just DJT tapping the ongoing narrative out of the hands of the media.

He says like things now and then as the MSM synchronizes around stuff. It's like he's just knocking the ball out of their hands. Making sure they are in the back seat, reacting.

"We must stop letting Trump distract us from the stories he doesn't want covere-OMG DID YOU SEE WHAT HE TWEETED?" - @peterjhasson

Administrator said...

I'm not sure where they came from. Let's ask President Thin Skin Mom Jeans...

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/11/06/cavuto-stunned-obama-prods-illegals-vote-national-tv-secret-cant-catch-408989#ixzz4PK0CcxSr

gspencer said...

"Where does he get the idea of millions of people voting illegally?"

You are aware of the Democrat Party, n'est pas?

Lauderdale Vet said...

This might be the original source:

http://www.infowars.com/report-three-million-votes-in-presidential-election-cast-by-illegal-aliens/

Hagar said...

Over fifty states plus the territories not all that farfetched. We all have counties that go with the old joke: "You have not told us how many votes you need yet!"

Unknown said...

There are not millions of illegal votes by illegal immigrants. However, there may millions of stolen votes from hacked electronic voting machines. Yes the election may have been rigged after all, by Trump's friends in Russia. Who woulda thunk it?

Hagar said...

And this is new now, that the illegals think they actually are morally entitled to vote; never mind the silly laws!

Hagar said...

And, oh yeah, all those counties historically are assumed to be voting Democrat for some odd reason.

HT said...

This is unprecedented fraud. He should have lost the electoral college. We need a nation-wide recount.

Unknown said...

What is Trump afraid of? He should act like a real president and stop whining about a recount. He should welcome it as a way of proving he won the election fair and square. His reaction to the recount is in itself suspicious.

AprilApple said...

Trump's friends in Russia! LOL - get the memo!


Here's the memo Unknown - you might want to read it.

readering said...

Little motivation to bring out millions of non-citizens to vote in California where Trump so far behind in polls. I do think the absence of a Republican Senate candidate depressed Republican turnout. The top two finishers rule is dumb.

Gretchen said...

Seriously Ann, do you think there are NOT millions voting illegally? Probably more than 2 million. When illegals feel there is no chance of deportation and can openly demonstrate against the US by waiving Mexican flags, do you think they aren't going to vote, especially when encouraged by the democrat sanctuary city folks? This isn't their homelands, where such actions would be severely punished. There are no barriers or penalties in states like CA, WA, CO, etc., and it was encouraged by Obama. Trump is just stating what anyone who isn't completely foolish or naive knows is true.

HT said...

The one case I heard of voter fraud was a Trump supporter voting twice.

mockturtle said...

I have no doubt that millions voted illegally. Possibly in CA alone!

Drago said...

Unknown: "The Russians, his pals, may have hacked into voting machines and interefered with our election, yet he focuses on "millions" of nonexistent illegal votes"

LOL

Unknown takes time out from discussing non-existent hacking to protest others making claims that are supposedly non-existent!!

Gk1 said...

How fleeting was my respect for the democrats and Hillary the day after the election. They congratulated Trump, spoke of disappointment but said the were ready to work together and compete down the road. Where the hell did that go? What changed?

Ken B said...

For votes you might need an audit. For registration problems millions is correct. For example http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/pew-center-1-8-million-dead-people-voter-rolls-2-75-million-registered-two-states/
And CA has motor-voter so it seems plausible there are millions of illegal registrations. Trump may not have proof (yet) but "wacky" overstates.

Rae said...

In California, over half of new drivers licenses were issued to illegals in 2015:

http://www.mercurynews.com/2015/07/17/california-most-new-drivers-licenses-go-to-illegal-immigrants/

Does anybody think a California election worker is going to challenge somebody who has a valid drivers license? Isn't gonna happen.

So theres a pool of 400,000+ illegals with drivers licenses in California. The question after that becomes how many voted, and how many times?

Then you can get into the whole zombie voter thing. Dead vote democrat and all that.

Bay Area Guy said...

The thing about Trump is that he hits back hard. Many GOP types don't fight back against the Left. Many Conservative types are too busy reading Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman to see how the real world works and how the Left operates.

To his eternal credit, Trump fights back. That's why I voted for him and why he continues to grow on me.

robother said...

We have an "honor system" of voter registration in virtually all states. We have 60 million plus illegal and legal non-citizens living in the USA. Democrats have resisted any photo ID or other system to verify voter citizenship as "suppressing the minority vote." On the other hand Democrats have been cheerleading open borders specifically to change the electorate for the last 20 years. Given how many non-citizens live in states and localities in which the entire voter registration process is controlled by Democrats, 3 million sounds like it could be a conservative number.

A recount in WI, MI and PN (with all the international and market uncertainty it will bring) should trigger a Republican demand for a nation-wide audit of illegal non-citizen votes in the 2016 election, just to assure the integrity of the election process.

Drago said...

HT: "The one case I heard of voter fraud was a Trump supporter voting twice."

Gee, I wonder why that one case is the only one you've heard of?

Willful ignorance is not way to go thru life.

Drago said...

Gk1: "Where the hell did that go? What changed?"

The realization that "donations" to the Clinton Global Initiative were really, really going to dry up.

Hillary was only able to sell US policy for $2Billion. She and Bill desperately want to get the number north of $5B.

n.n said...

With Democratic efforts to disenfranchise Americans through immigration reform, mass illegal immigration, sanctuary policies, class diversity schemes, judicial redistricting, welfare demographic manipulation, etc., a margin of fraud must be assumed. Perhaps if they placed Americans first... but, that's why they lost the election.

That said, end the social justice adventurism... the progressive wars that redistribute survivors around the world.

End the baby trials that are a first-order cause of anthropogenic deaths in America.

mockturtle said...

From the Orange County Register: Nearly half of all CA Drivers Licenses issued since Motor-Voter Law went to illegal immigrants

All they do is ask if they are citizens. No proof required. This is not carelessness or naivete, it is a political policy move.

AprilApple said...

LOL - MoDo extends some tough love.


Drago said...

I can't wait for unknown to provide the proof that millions of illegals did not vote in the last election.

This is clearly a "reasonable" request per the latest dem rule which requires everyone else to "prove" that the lack of evidence for Russians hacking the election actually means the Russians did not hack the election.

readering said...

3 million comes from fake news. Google Alex Jones.

Unknown said...

"Millions vote illegally", hahahahahahaha! You people are as nuts as Trump.

Craig said...

The comments section here is an incubator for paranoid nutcases: Qwinn, boycat, mockturtle, Gretchen, Hagar...

I would love to see evidence that 100 undocumented immigrants voted. Good luck.

YoungHegelian said...

Okay, if this is really true, point to the evidence.

Well, none yet, because the relevant states have not subjected their voters rolls to any rigorous examination.

But, imagine this scenario:

1) You, Mr or Ms Illegal Immigrant, have a great deal to lose if Trump wins. Your family back home is depending on you for remittances to make ends meet. Trump claims he's going to clog up that fund transfer machinery, & that'll make your life miserable.

2) The President said, sotto voce, it's okay to vote. The local Democrats all the way from local to state level will not prosecute you if somehow you do get caught.

3) Short of getting interviewed on News Channel 7 & telling the reporter "My name is Juan Valdez & I just voted illegally", it's very unlikely you will get caught. The worst that may happen is that you'll be turned away. But, at least, you tried for the sake of your family, & that helps salve your conscience.

4) If HRC wins & it can be traced to the "Latino" vote, maybe she'll be grateful enough to do a "little something" for the illegal community, like pushing through an amnesty bill. I mean, that's the way politics works back home in Mexico, no?

Look at that list and tell me you wouldn't have voted against Trump if you were an illegal immigrant.


SDN said...

Ann, literally dozens of incidents like this one in Issa's district. PS, Craig, here's 83 that got only got caught because of Post Office incompetence.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/03/voter-fraud-california-man-finds-dozens-ballots-stacked-outside-home.html

The 83 ballots, each unused, were addressed to different people, all supposedly living in his elderly neighbor’s two-bedroom apartment.

“I think this is spooky,” Mosna said. “All the different names, none we recognize, all at one address.”

His wife, Madalena Mosna, noted their 89-year-old neighbor lives by herself, and, “Eighty people can’t fit in that apartment.”

Drago said...

Unknown: "Millions vote illegally", hahahahahahaha! You people are as nuts as Trump."

Says the Russian hacker conspiracy-theorist!

LOL

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Where does he get the idea of millions of people voting illegally? It's not very confidence-building to tweet stuff like that!

If it is true, which it is, it doesn't need to build confidence. We don't need FALSE confidence. We are adults. We can handle the truth. Our elections are rife with fraud and incompetent voter roles that haven't been purged of the dead, illegible, no longer even in that area. Decades of crappy record keeping.

The first commentator nailed it. California allows anyone who can fog a mirror to get a driver's license. Illegals are all able to get valid Ca ID/DL AND...while doing so are automatically registered to vote. All they have to do is to lie and say they are legally here. There are NO questions asked. No proof of identity or citizenship.

Get registered to vote, do not pass go. Millions are registered. Did they all vote IN California. Maybe not, but a great many did. Multiply this by the numbers of illegal aliens all across the country. Then add in the duplicate votes. College students voting in Madison and in their home State as well. Then of course there are always the reliable dead who vote Democrat.

Millions of fraudulent votes. Millions.

Trump should demand a recount in any state that has voter/motor registration and in any state where Hillary just squeaked by. The fraud will be uncovered and it will stink to high Heaven.

Scott said...

Regarding the legal vote: I found a site with fairly up-to-date popular vote totals, and did a little calculation:

Clinton won the national popular vote by a margin of about 2.2 million over Trump.

But if you subtract the votes cast for both candidates in California, Trump wins by about 1.7 million votes.

It's probably reasonable to assume that many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people who immigrated illegally from Mexico voted in California. But because of the Electoral College system, one huge state's messed-up politics isn't dragging the rest of the country down with it. Hooray for the Founding Fathers!

Qwinn said...

We demand evidence of voter fraud! Oh, and if you ever made even the slightest perfunctory effort to detect voter fraud, we called you a racist and attempted to sue you into oblivion.

traditionalguy said...

He means The Mexican citizens openly voting in California... I mean undocumented Americans. (See, coulter, ann)

PB said...

Of course illegal aliens vote. it's so easy for them to register and most states don't verify citizenship status. You have to be a fool to believe otherwise. It's the whole purpose of having such lax standards.

David said...

Donald Trump is an idiot and his supporters are fucking idiots.

This is a big problem for America, and it's not clear what the solution is.

Unknown said...

If the shoe were on the other foot and Clinton had won the electoral vote and Trump won the popular vote by 2 million plus votes, who here thinks Trump would've accepted the results? Trump wasn't going to accept any results if he wouldn't have won the election. Such hypocrisy, he did t have anything real to base his suspicions of a rigged election on. Homeland Securitywas saying that they had info that the Russians may hack into voting machines of Election Day, a few days before the election.

Drago said...

This never happens:

The Collier County Sheriff's office is investigating two voters who admit they are not U.S. citizens, yet cast ballots in numerous elections.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/16961885/nbc2-investigation-sparks-criminal-investigation

Never ever ever ever.

Drago said...

Unknown: "If the shoe were on the other foot and Clinton had won the electoral vote and Trump won the popular vote by 2 million plus votes, who here thinks Trump would've accepted the results?"

Shorter Unknown: It's totally not our fault! We cannot control our own actions! Trump made us do it!

tcrosse said...

Donald Trump is an idiot and his supporters are fucking idiots.
They said that a Trump victory would open the floodgates of Hate and Intoleerance, and they were right.

Drago said...

Why, one might ask, did obambi go on TV prior to the election to reassure illegal aliens that no checks for illegal voting would occur and that there are no penalties if identified?

Gee, he's only the chief law enforcement officer in our nation. Laws "schmaws".

Craig said...

SDN, give me a break. Keep working on your story. You don't have evidence of any illegal votes. You have great evidence of a computer system screw-up--that's not gonna be enough. DBQ, what the heck are you talking about? You're either a liar or a buffoon. That is not the situation in California vis-a-vis drivers' licenses, nor regarding registering to vote. Scott, this--"It's probably reasonable to assume that many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people who immigrated illegally from Mexico voted in California"--is idiocy.

Drago said...

8 weeks ago the dems were worried about the loser of the election refusing to accept the results of the American people!

Now we know why!

Qwinn said...

Unknown:

I did not hear Trump say before the election that the loser must unequivocally accept the result of the election.

I *did* hear Hillary say that.

And yet you claim Trump is the hypocrite.

He's a hypocrite because you imagine he would've contested the result, something he never said he wouldn't or shouodn't do. Hillary sayd it's horrific and dangerous to contest the result... then she concedes... and now, she's contesting the result.

And yet you claim Trump is the hypocrite.

Unknown said...

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/heres-how-hackers-could-mess-with-electronic-voting/

"Cyber vulnerabilities exist in all of these locations. Most revolve around the age of the machines and their software. The Brennan Center report estimated 43 states will use voting machines in 2016 that are more than 10 years old. Many of these devices contain outdated software — think Microsoft Windows XP or older — without security updates. Meanwhile, the mainframes of other machines are guarded by easy-to-pick padlocks or by no barrier at all.

“With the kind of stealth and sophistication that’s already out there, why wouldn’t a nation-state, cyber-criminal gang or activist group go into election systems that are completely vulnerable?” Scott said. He offered the example of the energetic bear hack, wherein attackers deposited malware on websites intended for software updates for energy companies. The perpetrators infiltrated energy grids and petroleum pipeline operators across U.S. and Europe and went unnoticed for three years.

Given many states and counties use electronic ballot systems provided by a small number of vendors, a similar ploy used on voter machine manufacturers could manipulate several polls at once. Plus, much of this voting technology is proprietary, so forensic auditors couldn’t independently scrub for and detect malicious software, especially given such code might delete itself after Election Day, Scott said."

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Trump got this from Limbaugh, which I think Althouse knows. Own it. Wacky but not as wacky as the birth certificate business. As a persuasion technique, I'm sure Scott Adams would approve.

coupe said...

Trump is like Kim Jong-un.

A barking dog.

Craig said...

Drago, Obama did not do that. Stop lying.

mezzrow said...

Donald Trump is an idiot and his supporters are fucking idiots.

This is a big problem for America, and it's not clear what the solution is.


Well, there's no arguing with logic like this. That's for sure.

After all, a wise man once said that it takes one to know one.

YoungHegelian said...

@Unknown,

If the shoe were on the other foot and Clinton had won the electoral vote and Trump won the popular vote by 2 million plus votes, who here thinks Trump would've accepted the results?

Trump may not have, but the Trump voters would have, because they were expecting to lose anyway. Also, the Trump side of the house prides itself on fidelity to the letter of the Constitution, including the Electoral College, which is seen as protecting the voting strength of the less inhabited heartland states. It would be a classic case of getting hoisted on one's own petard.

I expect Trump would have been a frothing mess, but the unhappy Trump electorate would have been "Eh. At least you've got all those millions & Ivanka to go back home to".

Otto said...

Trump is correct and maybe this recount will set the tide against illegal immigrants voting.
Wow an animal! Seems as if you are intimidated by a man.

Unknown said...

Trump had nothing to base his accusations of a rigged election on, absolutely nothing but wacky conspiracy theories. The Russians hacking into our governmental electronic systems has been strongly suspected by the country's top security experts.

AprilApple said...

David - Read this - you'll feel better, and maybe learn something.

Drago said...

For Craig:

From the video:

RODRIGUEZ: Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens — and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country — are fearful of voting. So if I vote, will immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?

OBAMA: Not true. And the reason is, first of all, when you vote, you are a citizen yourself. And there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, et cetera. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential in terms of who you voted for. If you have a family member who maybe is undocumented, then you have an even greater reason to vote.

Nope, nothing there at all eh Craig?

Why don't you stop lying?

Oh, right. You are a lefty. 'nuff said.

Don't you have a Castro Wake to attend somewhere?

Drago said...

Unknown: "Trump had nothing to base his accusations of a rigged election on, absolutely nothing but wacky conspiracy theories."

LOL

You really can't caricature these idiot leftists. They are beyond parody.


YoungHegelian said...

@Unknown,

Trump had nothing to base his accusations of a rigged election on, absolutely nothing but wacky conspiracy theories.

No! Trump was basing that charge on the Wikileaks emails that detailed how the DNC tipped the scales against Bernie for Hillary. Remember that?

It's kinda hard to argue against rigged elections when there's documented evidence that the DNC did rig an election against a Democratic candidate in the primaries, doncha think?

AprilApple said...

Unknown - "Top security experts..." LOL!

She cannot name any of the experts - but there are experts, and they know.

HT said...

If he believes this and will not be doing any investigation then he's a crappy leader.

Drago said...

Still waiting for all that evidence of Russian hacking our vote from our resident lefty conspiracy theorists.

rehajm said...

We will point to the evidence when we're allowed to look for the evidence.

An audit keeps everybody honest.

AprilApple said...

Like Tim in Vermont noted -
"This whole "Russian hackers' meme was put out by the Democrats to get the press to give Wikileaks a good leaving alone."

buwaya puti said...

California really is screwed up.
There simply isnt any effort made on the voter rolls, and few polling places do anything to properly check ID.

I am a foreigner, a permanent resident with full paperwork and registration as such. I AM on the SF voter rolls. If I'd wanted to I could have gone with my wife and kids to vote. I am regularly bugged about jury duty, which works off the local voter rolls.

As for the proportion of State drivers licenses and ID's going to illegals - that is a gross underestimate almost certainly, as that condition is self-reported.

There is a reason to turn out - its not about the Presidency as much as it is about the local municipal/county political machines. This is big money. They spend state funds in local healthcare, NGOs of all kinds, school boards, municipal contracts, you name it. CA has expensive government. In the LA basin and getting more so in the Valley, these are the Chicano machines, and they turn out their own by hook or by crook. The corruption is stupendous.

Craig said...

Drago,

You don't know me. Just because I call you on your shitty reading does not mean that I'm a lefty.

And you're misreading what Obama said. The only reasonable interpretation is that Obama is encouraging legal citizens to vote, telling them that they need not worry about being harassed. See, e.g., the last sentence of the passage you quoted, and the rest of the interview. Rodriguez is a citizen (born in Texas). And Obama tells her that she (and citizens like her) will not be harassed just because they voted. He tells her that it might be especially important for her to vote because of her undocumented family member, who will not vote. He goes on, "People are discouraged from voting and part of what is important for Latino citizens is to make your voice heard, because you’re not just speaking for yourself. You’re speaking for family members, friends, classmates of yours in school… who may not have a voice, who can’t legally vote. But they’re counting on you to make sure that you have the courage to make your voice heard."

But even suppose your bullshit read of what you posted was, as far as it goes, correct. Did Obama say "that there are no penalties if identified"? Where do you see that? Or was that just you making up stuff to go with the stuff you're making up?

HT said...

RODRIGUEZ: This has been a huge fear presented especially during this election.

OBAMA: And the reason that fear is promoted is because they don’t want people voting. People are discouraged from voting and part of what is important for Latino citizens is to make your voice heard, because you’re not just speaking for yourself. You’re speaking for family members, friends, classmates of yours in school…

RODRIGUEZ: Your entire community.

OBAMA: … who may not have a voice. Who can’t legally vote. But they’re counting on you to make sure that you have the courage to make your voice heard.

YoungHegelian said...

A take-down by the lefty journalist Glenn Greenwald on the Washington Post's latest "The Russians are Coming! The Russians are Coming" scam.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse (4:20), whether it seems wacky to you has no bearing on whether or not it's true, of course. But still, what sort of evidence would satisfy you? Is there something that could be done short of ordering a full recount in states with high concentrations of undocumented aliens?

tim in vermont said...

Doncha see that you can't look at Wikileaks because Russia!

AprilApple said...

The Russian hacker story is fake news from the left. It's a diversion tactic to give hacks like the Washington Post something to do. They are useless unless they are providing their services to the democrat party.

Illegals voting in CA - we all know it's real, but we don't know how bad it is. Be nice if Trump would make it a priority to fix it.

Qwinn said...

No one has to make up "there are no penalties if identified", because it is already California law.

Craig said...

AprilApple, you're a parody account, right?

Craig said...

Qwinn, California law need not preclude federal law, which is presumably what Obama is the chief law enforcer of, to reference Drago. Nice bullshit try though.

Craig said...

Trump's argument (anticipated by Professor Althouse) that the popular vote was the product of campaign strategies picked by the candidates in light of the importance of the electoral is a good, strong, compelling argument.

The millions-of-illegal ballots argument is bullshit, without evidence, and at best calculated to distract and enervate (as suggested by Professor Althouse), and alternatively evidence amenable to some of the more worrisome theories about the President-elect.

YoungHegelian said...

@Craig,

Qwinn, California law need not preclude federal law, which is presumably what Obama is the chief law enforcer of, to reference Drago. Nice bullshit try though.

In what universe do you live that the federal government enforces laws against individual voter fraud? That's a local or state matter.

The only way the Feds get involved is if it can be proved to be a systemic violation of a specific group of voters (e.g. black voters as a group in a county or state).

sinz52 said...

"The recounters have their craziness in motion, so he's throwing chaos back at them? "

Yes, and it's working.

I've read tweets from progressives saying that Trump's charges of illegal aliens stealing the popular vote are insane, but Stein's charges of Russian hackers stealing 50,000 popular votes are serious. And that progressives need to make both claims from now on.

Qwinn said...

In that interview, Rodriguez early on defines illegals as being "citizens" because "they contribute to this country". Every illegal at that point knew every reference Obama made to "citizens" after that point was in reference to them. It wasn't particularly subtle.

viator said...

"If you provoke the animal to fight, he fights."
Ann Althouse, really.

sinz52 said...

AprilApple said: "The Russian hacker story is fake news from the left...Illegals voting in CA - we all know it's real"

I'm seeing the exact opposite claim from ordinary progressive voters: "Illegals voting is fake news from the right, but Russian hacking is well-documented."

Dueling conspiracy theories.

Maybe the left-wing conspiracy theorists and right-wing conspiracy theorists like you could have a meetup somewhere and work out a joint conspiracy theory that covers both cases.

Craig said...

I live in a universe where the claim that Obama went "on TV prior to the election to reassure illegal aliens that no checks for illegal voting would occur and that there are no penalties if identified" is made true in necessary part by Obama, on tv, prior the election, saying anything suggesting that there would be no penalties if an undocumented immigrant votes illegally.

I suppose you and Drago live in a universe where the claim that Obama went "on TV prior to the election to reassure illegal aliens that no checks for illegal voting would occur and that there are no penalties if identified" is tautological, or something like it, and its truth has nothing to do with what was said or not said during a tv interview.

You guys are divorced from the facts.

HT said...

"You’re speaking for family members, friends, classmates of yours in school…… who may not have a voice. Who can’t legally vote."

You = Rodriguez. American actress.

Gahrie said...

Okay, if this is really true, point to the evidence.

We have Democratic operatives on videotape bragging about organizing illegal voting.

We have dozens of lawsuits against people for illegal voting.

We have instances where more than 100% of the registered voters in a district voted.

The reason the Democrats are so committed to opposing electoral reform and voter ID is precisely because it would provide evidence of illegal voting.

What more evidence do you need?

It comes across as wacky to me.

Why? What have the Democrats ever done to give you the idea that they wouldn't (and don't) cheat? When have the Democrats ever shown the tiniest bit of integrity or ethical behavior?

YoungHegelian said...

@Craig,

The millions-of-illegal ballots argument is bullshit, without evidence,

Craig, the reason there's no evidence is that the people who hold the evidence (i.e. the state voter rolls) won't let the opposition go through them with a fine-tooth comb. Any attempts to do so are greeted with howls of "Voter Suppression!". Why is that difficult to comprehend?

If the defense attorney won't share with the prosecution the evidence against his client, it makes no sense for the defense attorney to say "There's no evidence against my client...".

Craig said...

Qwinn, laughable. Find some evidence that the text was taken that way by the undocumented community, other than your supposition and prejudice.

AprilApple said...

sinz

Why? If the laws in CA allow illegals to vote, then they probably vote. How is this a conspiracy?

mockturtle said...

Craig seems to be the new incarnation of Unknown.

Craig said...

Gahrie, YoungHegelian,

I don't think that the Democrats are without stain. I think that there has been reprehensible behavior on the Democrats's side, certainly (and likewise on the Republic side). I think responsible, open strategies to ensure the integrity of the vote are important to consider and to adopt (though I think that, as with many areas, e.g., the criminal justice system, false positives and false negatives are both bad, and the balance between the two is difficult especially if there is reason to think that errors might be systematically correlated with other issues).

But "dozens" of lawsuits? Hilarious. And "The reason the Democrats are so committed to opposing electoral reform and voter ID is precisely because it would provide evidence of illegal voting."? I think you've mistaken supposition and hope for evidence.

Still, yet to see evidence that millions of ballots were illegally cast. This is comic.

Leora said...

126 million more or less voted. Two million would be a rate of 1.6%. Given motor voter, liberal snow birds and college students with homes in two states, the dead not purged from voter rolls combined with the strong emotional incentives and low risk for illegal voting, a 1.6% rate of fraud doesn't seem totally wacky. Unfortunately there is no way to pick out the illegal votes from the the votes to be re-counted - once the ballots are in the stack there's no way to know who cast them.

It would be possible to figure out how many illegal votes there were with some investigation. I hope AG Sessions is planning on it.

Craig said...

Gahrie, I'm googling to try to find the districts where > 100% of registered voters voted. Got a link? (Not denying it happened, just curious where you're getting that.)

YoungHegelian said...

@Craig,

Still, yet to see evidence that millions of ballots were illegally cast. This is comic.

Then ask for the state of California to do a full audit of their voter rolls. You keep saying "no evidence" & I keep saying "the other side is deliberately withholding the evidence, & that in itself is evidence".

I can't imagine how to say my point any clearer, I really can't.

Clyde said...

I'll say it again: The amazing thing was not just that Trump won, but that he won beyond the margin of fraud.

I'll also repeat what others have written in noting how strange it is that if the Russians were really hacking our election that they didn't also manage to hack enough votes to give Trump the popular vote victory as well. Obviously they're clumsy amateurs, eh?

Tom said...

Love it. His best way to always defeat Hillary is to outwork her. She can't fight on multiple fronts. He fights with Chaos.

Gahrie said...

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden­tial vote margin in Florida in 2000.

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Craig,

It is Rodriguez who specifically, and pointedly, used the term "undocumented citizens." Now, what do you suppose she intended by that? (No need to speculate, really; she spells it right out.)

Craig said...

YoungHegelian,

I read the argument. it's not a very good argument. There are occasions where smoking-out arguments and rebuttable presumptions are apt. But it is not an open assumption.

And, to be honest, I had missed where Trump asked California for the accounting.

Gahrie said...

The lawsuit, filed Friday in U.S. District Court in Baltimore, asserts that individuals who opted out of jury duty because they were not legal U.S. residents have cast ballots in at least three Maryland elections.

Based on the number of potential unqualified voters identified in Frederick County, up to 7 percent of Maryland’s registered voters could be illegal immigrants, according to estimates.


http://watchdog.org/179354/maryland-illegal-voters/

HT said...

Tom, Hillary IS defeated, what in the sam hell are you talking about?

OBAMA: "You’re speaking for family members, friends, classmates of yours in school…… who may not have a voice. Who can’t legally vote."

Craig said...

MDT, Drago didn't make claims about what Rodriguez said. I also know what Obama said. And I know that Drago was claiming something about what Obama said.

You want to claim that Obama--despite focusing his answer on someone who is a legal citizen, despite making abundantly clear that legal citizens should vote to give voice to their ballotless undocumented family members, etc.--was tacitly affirming? I guess, but 1) that's not what Drago said happened, so Drago would still be wrong, and 2) give me any evidence, beyond your own supposition and prejudice.

The Cracker Emcee said...

I see we have a new cohort of Lefty trolls since the Left decided that Batshit is one of the stages of grief. Reds under the bed!

Prior to the campaign, I always assumed that Trump was kind of a lucky fool. I'm seriously coming to believe that he may be a kind of undisciplined genius. It's not just that he's right about the illegal aliens. By inserting them into the recount discussion they now become an inseparable part of the whole issue. Really, very shortly the Left will be wishing they'd just kept their mouths shut. Hillary will resume her defensive crouch, Stein will count her sucker-scammed cash, and the Loony Left will slap more bumper stickers on their cars and trade ever more improbable conspiracy theories on Democratic Underground. Soothing for them, entertaining for me.

tim in vermont said...

I wold rather have Trump shooting off his mouth than Hillary selling us out to the highest bidder.

I just read The Intercepts takedown of that supposed connection between a "private server" in the Trump Tower to Alpha Bank in Russia. It turns out it was spam email marketing for Trump properties. Nonetheless, Slate publishes a story suggesting nefarious payments due to a "two way conversation" between the servers in both countries during their respective business hours. Well, guess what? People click on spam, that's why they still send it. An intermediate company running a server provided a copy of one of the emails, as did Alpha Bank, independently. They were identical emails about one of Trump's luxury hotels.

Still you have election result deniers like Unknown running with this stuff.

Craig said...

For what it is worth, I'd say the same thing about people who assert that Trump supporters' behavior prior to the election suppressed millions of potential Hillary votes. Get some damned evidence. You all have no more (and maybe less) than they have. If you want to just announce, "I hate Hillary, and so I think anything her supporters say is idiocy because they say it," fine, have your psychological soothing. But you're not reasoning.

Anglelyne said...

Wildly implausible, would never happen: significant numbers of non-citizens vote in heavily blue areas where no voter ID or proof of citizenship required.

Perfectly plausible and probably true: cyber fraud (probably by a crack team of Putinista hackers) is the best explanation for the voting patterns that gave Trump the electoral vote.

This is getting funnier by the day. Until the day comes when it ain't funny no more.

I guess it was wishful thinking that the shitlibs and their MSM enablers would work through the stages of their grief like mentally stable adults. But just keep it up, shitlibs. Crank it up to 11. I don't think you'll be happy with the consequences, but I'm sure you'll figure out a way to blame any of the various possible messes resulting from your behavior on everything and everyone but yourselves.

Craig said...

Anglelyne, I never said anything about cyber fraud. I am responding to specific claims of specific people here. Perhaps you're referring to someone else, and you (reasonably) do not mean to deny that the other commentators here I have identified are failing to offer coherent arguments?

tim in vermont said...

Prior to the campaign, I always assumed that Trump was kind of a lucky fool. I'm seriously coming to believe that he may be a kind of undisciplined genius.

Me too, reluctantly. Sometimes I think genius can be about believing what the data tells you, no matter what everybody else thinks, trusting in your own instinct.

Bay Area Guy said...

In 1988, Cal had a population of 28 Million. In the Prez election, Cal voted 5 Mill for Bush, 4.7 Mill for Dukakis.

In 2016, Cal had a population of 39 Million. In the Prez election, Cal voted 7.3 Mill for Hillary, 3.9 Mill for Trump.

According to Pew Research Center, there are 2.4 Million illegals in Cal.

If you think illegals are not voting illegally for Dems in California in massive numbers, you are hopelessly lost.

Original Mike said...

"In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally."
Tweeted Donald Trump today."


I'm warming to this Trump guy.

tim in vermont said...

John Podesta: I think Teddy’s idea scratches the itch, is pretty safe and uncomplicated.
On the picture ID, the one thing I have thought of in that space is that if you show up on Election Day with a drivers license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in Federal elections.
- Wikileaks

AprilApple said...

DBQ - thread winner.

Craig said...

BAG,

You present nine numbers as if they are the sufficient premises for your conclusion. Plainly, however, they are not.

Masscon said...

True story...4 days after the election. Traveling from Murtala Mahammed Airport in Lagos the ticket agent, as she is checking my ticket and passport and noting I am an American citizen, demands to know who I voted for. I informed her that I respect the sanctity of the ballot box and my choice is between me and my conscience. This didn't satisfy her and she again loudly demanded to know who I voted for. I declined to answer and asked who she voted for and of course it was for Hillary. Honestly I have no idea whether she was a legal US citizen (although it seems unlikely) but I can absolutely believe there is massive voter fraud ongoing.

To believe otherwise would require willful blindness on a par with believing the MSM is biased against conservatives.

Anglelyne said...

Craig: For what it is worth, I'd say the same thing about people who assert that Trump supporters' behavior prior to the election suppressed millions of potential Hillary votes.

"Would" say, I'm sure you would. "Did" say, or "will" say, unlikely.

Nobody who uses the phrase "undocumented community" with a straight face "did" or "will" say, when it matters.

HT said...

"Honestly I have no idea whether she was a legal US citizen (although it seems unlikely) but I can absolutely believe there is massive voter fraud ongoing."

But millions. Where are the videos, the photos - the incontrovertible truth? Where are the undercover investigation stories from the alt right media? He's talking MILLIONS. And I now understand that we are talking about California, but we are talking MILLIONS. There should be more evidence than a rando conversation with someone in a different country, a misunderstood Obama conversation, and one story of a Trump voter voting twice.

Gretchen said...

In PA, 2.5 million voter-registration cards were sent to drivers. Some were illegals, and likely according to testimony to the House of representatives they could have easily registered and voted. In Colorado there have been numerous reports of mail-in ballots being sent or left in large piles unattended, In Virginia, over one thousand illegals or legal aliens were registered in eight counties,and were only caught when they self-reported their status upon driver's license renewal, not due to an investigation.

In all these cases, this is what was found. What percentage of people who drive over the speed limit are caught? Probably less than 1%, and we have law enforcement looking to catch them. In liberal states nothing is done to insure illegals don't vote, or that people don't vote multiple times.

So, let me get this right, according to the no illegals vote crowd, even though they have lots of incentive, and zero chance of being prosecuted no illegals vote, but the Russians hacked elections for Trump.

Anglelyne said...

Craig: Anglelyne, I never said anything about cyber fraud.

Wasn't addressing you in that comment.

rhhardin said...

Trump is making the recount cost them more than they were figuring it would cost, in terms of their public reputations.

The same thing he did to the PC media.

tim in vermont said...

The only reasonable interpretation is that Obama is encouraging legal citizens to vote,

LOL. Maybe so, but I would love to see the "reasonable interpretation" standard applied to Trump too, as in when he sarcastically claims that Obama "founded ISIS" The only reasonable interpretation is that he was claiming that Obama's actions led to the creation of ISIS. Yet that is not the interpretation the press went with, is it? Then when Trump said he was being sarcastic, they reported it as "Trump walks it back" or "Trump says he was joking."

This kind of shit is infuriating, but you know what? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Obama really mangled his language there. The same kind of invidious interpretation was applied to Trumps "Rapist" quote. But we know, Obama gets his stuff cleaned up, and Trump gets his stuff made to sound as bad as possible.

Original Mike said...

@Masscon - When I was in Australia I had several people flat out ask me who I voted for. I was taken aback the first couple of times that a complete stranger, in another country no less, would ask such a thing. We had to deal with a minor accident with our rental car and in the process of negotiating with the agent, he asked me and my travel-mate who we voted for. My mate spoke up and said "Hillary, of course". He assumed from my background he was right, I guess. I kept my mouth shut. The agent was happy and treated us well.

mockturtle said...

On the picture ID, the one thing I have thought of in that space is that if you show up on Election Day with a drivers license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in Federal elections.

I've never been asked for my DL or any ID when voting. And now, here in WA, all voting is done by mail.

320Busdriver said...

I do not think the reports of possible fraud in NC from 2012 were ever debunked.

To wit:
"The crosscheck also found 35,570 voters in North Carolina who voted in 2012 whose first names, last names and dates of birth match those of voters who voted in other states in 2012, but whose Social Security numbers were not matched.
"A lot of states don't provide last four SSN, or they don't have that information," Strach explained.

Read more at http://www.wral.com/state-elections-officials-seek-tighter-security/13533579/#hyAaA3rob5ZThc28.99

tim in vermont said...

If the press could under stand how complicit they are in turning out conservative voters by those kinds of tactics, they might revert to a more honest mode of reporting, but they are so deeply convinced of the stupidity of their readers, they can't let it go.

You know who doesn't think his readers are stupid? Glenn Greenwald, that's why conservatives respect him, even though he is a lefty.

EDH said...

Blogger Clyde said...
I'll say it again: The amazing thing was not just that Trump won, but that he won beyond the margin of fraud.

Cheating the Cheater.

Craig said...

Tim -- Without a doubt the "reasonable interpretation" standard should be applied widely, not just to help out the politicians you like. I come to Althouse in large part because she is a good and creative reader, one who can ferret out interpretations I've often overlooked. And I'll agree both that I can see someone thinking Obama mangled his language and that sauce is sauce, goose and gander. If people on the left want to read Trump strictly and Obama charitably, they'd better have damned good reason to do so, or their arguments will be (and for many of them are) contaminated and bad. Accordingly, I'm (not surprisingly) sympathetic with Professor Althouse's suggestion that one potential read of this comment is as animal, another is as rhetorical strategy. I'm also not unsympathetic with Trump supporters who might say, "Meh, liberal critics, we're tired of you holding Trump to accidental speaking foibles, or failing to see obvious irony or hyperbole or the like."

But a number of people here are taking this statement as truth. Those people are on the hook.

MayBee said...

Where are the videos, the photos - the incontrovertible truth?

I don't know....where's the video, the incontrovertible truth about where people who are here illegally work, go to school, live?
Where is the incontrovertible truth about how many are even living here?

Paddy O said...

"There should be more evidence than a rando conversation with someone in a different country..."

My impression from Trump's comment is that he's pointing towards the possibility of more investigation on just this issue. If recounts are made a big deal then there are likely additional issues that can be addressed. Does California want a federal investigation in its voting practices? These are things that can be arranged.

richlb said...

My biggest problem with the "I won the popular vote" argument is that MANY people voted differently precisely because it wasn't a popular vote. I did. I live in a very blue state that easily went to Clinton. No need to vote for Trump, whom I didn't precisely agree with. So 3rd party it was. If the actual vote was truly popular vote wins, I (and some people I know) would have voted differently.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/11/18/election-audit-paper-machines-column/93803752/

"A Washington Post–ABC News poll found that 18% of voters — 33% of Clinton supporters and 1% of Trump supporters — think Trump was not the legitimate winner of the election. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., has called on Congress to investigate the Russian cyberattack on the Democratic National Committee and the election.

There are reasons for concern. According to the director of national intelligence, the leaked emails from the DNC were “intended to interfere with the U.S. election process.” The director of national intelligence, the Department of Homeland Security, and the National Security Agency concluded that the Russian government is behind the DNC email hack and that Russian hackers attacked U.S. voter registration databases.

We know that the national results could be tipped by manipulating the vote count in a relatively small number of jurisdictions — a few dozen spread across a few key states. We know that the vast majority of local elections officials have limited resources to detect or defend against cyberattacks. And while pre-election polls have large uncertainties, they were consistently off. And various aspects of the preliminary results, such as a high rate of undervotes for president, have aroused suspicion.

Computers counted the vast majority of the 130 million votes cast in this year's election. Even without hacking, mistakes are inevitable. Computers can’t divine voter intent perfectly; computers can be misconfigured; and software can have bugs."

AprilApple said...

Tim in Vermont 6:17
Exactly. Hillary Clinton should have been laughed off the stage - BY THE LEFT.
She embodies everything the left claim to hate, with her two-faced mega-money bank speeches, her private server used to stuff her family foundation coffers that runs as a fake charity, her lying... Instead, the media circled the wagons.


Fritz said...

In Maryland, a comparison of voting records, and requests to get out of jury duty based on non-citizenship suggested that up to 7% of voters could be illegal aliens.

http://watchdog.org/179354/maryland-illegal-voters/

And Maryland ain't California.

AprilApple said...

Wikileaks = comeuppance for corrupt liars.

Unknown said...

https://medium.com/@jhalderm/want-to-know-if-the-election-was-hacked-look-at-the-ballots-c61a6113b0ba#.paa3bgw7n

"How might a foreign government hack America’s voting machines to change the outcome of a presidential election? Here’s one possible scenario. First, the attackers would probe election offices well in advance in order to find ways to break into their computers. Closer to the election, when it was clear from polling data which states would have close electoral margins, the attackers might spread malware into voting machines in some of these states, rigging the machines to shift a few percent of the vote to favor their desired candidate. This malware would likely be designed to remain inactive during pre-election tests, do its dirty business during the election, then erase itself when the polls close. A skilled attacker’s work might leave no visible signs — though the country might be surprised when results in several close states were off from pre-election polls."

320Busdriver said...

Blogger tim in vermont said...
If the press could under stand how complicit they are in turning out conservative voters by those kinds of tactics


See the lefts predicament in WI. It's the test case for what just happened nationally.

Francisco D said...

The quality of leftist trolls on this site has really declined since the days of garage mahal and his secret routers. Oh yeah, there's Inga, the psychotic nurse.

Growing up in Chicago, I am quite familiar with how vote fraud works. The precinct captain, usually a no-show city employee, started early in the AM. He would set the lever to "straight Democrat" and pull it a few hundred times. At the end of the day, he pulled it a few hundred more times. Lots of precincts = lots of straight Rat votes.

Times have changed and the methods have become more sophisticated. Let there be no doubt that the Democrat party is the party of Stalinist vote fraud.

clint said...

President-Elect Trump is probably wrong when he says that millions of illegal votes were cast.

Am I the only one who finds that "probably" bothersome?

Shouldn't we *know* that there aren't millions of illegal votes being cast?

AprilApple said...

Unknown - Kinda like bleachbit?

tim in vermont said...

Here’s one possible scenario.

Sure..

 though the country might be surprised when results in several close states were off from pre-election polls."

Well, several states that Hillary won were a lot closer than "pre-election polls" suggested too. Viginia comes to mind, she barely carried New Hampshire, the Republicans decimated the Democrats down ballots across the country. Trump's support was much broader than anomalous results in three states.

But I know, Unknown, Barbie said it all, didn't she? "Math is hard!"

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

I also noticed the Dowd thing April linked to.

Why did DJT open his phone to all the NYT folks (except Dowd) who think he's doing something wrong? Caring about the elite NYT POV probably wouldn't fly w/ a good chunk of the R-base who are anti-NYT trained.

Likewise, Conway pushing the idea that DJT spends time jabbering with BHO seems to not mesh w/ the con-media and R-base accepted concept of BHO = evil/disaster/took-our-country-away/blackenstein/Mooslim/anit-christ/usurper/etc.

Anywho, before the election I assumed that DJT as POTUS would placate his lowly ed and not-rich R fans w/ the squirrel du jour while simultaneously opening the flood gates for trickle up economics. Now, it's concerning to see that he may actually care what lib-support-moocher-type folks (i.e. NYT and BHO) have to say. Hopefully he's just playing them like he did and continues to do to his lowly ed and not-rich R fans.

Original Mike said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said..."Okay, if this is really true, point to the evidence."

Why don't we just look? That's how evidence is developed.

Who could possibly object to looking?

HT said...

I don't know....where's the video, the incontrovertible truth about where people who are here illegally work, go to school, live?


Go to google and type in undocumented worker raids then video (just as a starter)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQbrUcd3LU4
23 arrested


11 detained after immigration raid on tortilla factory in the Heights
http://abc13.com/news/11-detained-after-ice-raid-on-heights-tortilla-factory/902066/

There are too many for me to keep cutting and pasting.

Anglelyne said...

Original Mike: @Masscon - When I was in Australia I had several people flat out ask me who I voted for. I was taken aback the first couple of times that a complete stranger, in another country no less, would ask such a thing.

I've never had a problem with the natives in foreign countries, who, ime, are always very curious about American politics but can discuss it politely. The most annoying people I run into when traveling are those fellow Americans abroad who just assume that one is in accord with their (utterly predictable, lockstep, liberal) views. I mean, I seem nice, I'm not missing any teeth, I have a passport, try to speak the local language, and appear to have serious interest in foreign cultures and history, so I couldn't possibly be one of....them, could I?

tim in vermont said...

In fact, the Republicans almost have enough state legislatures to dictate changes to the constitution. It's that bad for Democrats.

MayBee said...

A congressional investigation into how voter rolls are created and maintained would be edifying.

MayBee said...

Or even a journalistic deep dive....

Drago said...

Hilarious.

Unknown is attempting to make up for the complete and utter lack of any evidence of Russian hacking by simply increasing the volume of innuendo and supposition.

Unexpectedly!

We should probably move forward rapidly with a detailed match up of us citizen voter and records of those who voted in NY and CA given the obvious millions of illegals who voted illegally.

Remember, the Lefty standard is not supportung evidence but the instead the seriousness of the allegation.

Think of it as a necessary voting assessment version of the Dems "October Surprise" investigation.

tim in vermont said...

Dowd was Trump's best friend at the Times.

Bob Ellison said...

I've tried to post this five times. Each time rejected by hmm, blogger powers of some kind.

Trump won by a landslide.

A few points:

1) 2016 is the first voter-ID-required election in Pennsylvania, and the first election won by the GOP since 1988.

2) The county voting map is astounding. Even WaPo can't spin it leftward. Look at that and try to think we don't have an elitist, bifurcated electorate.

3) It's true that Trump is a gamer. If he had wanted the popular vote, he would have focused on CA and NY and FL. He would probably have won the pop vote.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

"In fact, the Republicans almost have enough state legislatures to dictate changes to the constitution. It's that bad for Democrats."

You may want to double check the process before determining that the balance of state legislatures is definitive re dictating amendments.

Just sayin'

tim in vermont said...

She never got suckered by the Clinton spin the way Lyin'PB did.

tim in vermont said...

Just sayin'

Well you guys are running ten Democrat senators in states that Trump won next cycle... Just sayin'

HT said...

No, Bob: he DID win the popular vote.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

TinV,

Still not enough.

sinz52 said...

I wish that both the Democrats *and* the Republicans would stop with the conspiracy theories and heed the words of Benjamin Franklin:

"Three may keep a secret--if two of them are dead."

And in today's Internet-connected world, that's even more true than in Franklin's time.

Jupiter said...

Here in Oregon, if you are registered, they mail you a ballot, and you mail it back. There are no polling places, there is no showing ID, and you had better believe there are *loads* of illegal votes cast.

The Democrats are actually less concerned about Presidential elections than off-year and local elections. Illegal voting probably determines the outcomes of most local elections in areas with a high percentage of illegal immigrants. They are voting for welfare and sanctuary cities. Which is to say, they are voting for Democrats.

Original Mike said...

"The most annoying people I run into when traveling are those fellow Americans abroad who just assume that one is in accord with their (utterly predictable, lockstep, liberal) views."

When I was in Sydney last spring (I've been going to Australia a lot lately) I was standing in line for the ferry and started talking to a pair of couples behind me in line. It quickly developed that they were from Minnesota (I'm from Wisconsin). When we had established where we were from they immediately wanted to know my opinion of Walker. "We're Democrats!" one of the women declared. How strange is that? I mean, "I'm happy for you". However, it was helpful to me that they self-identified. I knew how to stay out of trouble.

n.n said...

The rabid class diversity including racism and sexism that characterizes the Democrat Party, and the active anti-native factions that populate its ranks, both invite a recount in Democrat-controlled districts. This is the precedent set by Democrats, which disqualifies Clinton's inquiry, and invites an audit of Democrat votes.

chickelit said...

Althouse asked: "Okay, if this is really true, point to the evidence.

It comes across as wacky to me."

San Diego county went blue for the first time in the 18 years I've lived here. This seems demography driven and we border Mexico. I saw unprecedented animosity at my polling place, including a "fuck trump" yard sign. Need I divulge the apparent ethnicity of the offender?

A possible metric to verify all of this would be a ratio of provisional to non provisional ballots cast. I guessing that the were more provisionals cas by illegals.

In any case, this will never be investigated by any California state government any time soon.

SukieTawdry said...

Well, the president did practically tell illegals to go out and vote and not worry about any consequences. Surely at least some took him up on it. And I'm telling you, anymore in California, illegal aliens pretty much think they own the joint.

I have a low tolerance for bombast. I hope President Trump is a little more muted than the candidate and president-elect has been.

clint said...

Drago said...
"We should probably move forward rapidly with a detailed match up of us citizen voter and records of those who voted in NY and CA given the obvious millions of illegals who voted illegally."

My understanding is that the required citizenship records do not exist -- that is, there is no official national list of citizens.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...
" "In fact, the Republicans almost have enough state legislatures to dictate changes to the constitution. It's that bad for Democrats."

You may want to double check the process before determining that the balance of state legislatures is definitive re dictating amendments.

Just sayin' "

Look again. There are two different methods described in the Constitution. One requires a two-thirds supermajority in Congress. The other does not.

DavidD said...

Media rebuttal: "It wasn't 'millions'. It was only 1,350,004--and we can prove it. So there!"

wwww said...

Trump is making the recount cost them more than they were figuring it would cost, in terms of their public reputations.


Jill Stein's reputation? Clinton's people? All of these people are going to go away & not be players in the next 4-8 years.

Most likely Russia didn't hack the election & most likely he won the electoral college & the recount will confirm that. Don't get why he's tweeting about this but whatever. Go for it and recount all the states.

"I've been against talk of recounts and audits. But if the President-elect feels that large-scale fraud took place, maybe we should check." Tom Nichols

Bob Ellison said...

There's talk of the Democrat Party becoming a party of two states: New York and California.

That's true. It's even more true, refined: it's a party of urbans (NYC and LA and Chicago, etc.).

No longer a national party.

The DNC poo-bahs are OK with that, because nobody outside the urban areas has a brain.

Jupiter said...

It is a pleasant surprise to see so many Democrats taking an apparent interest in the level of illegal voting. By all means, let's investigate. Or better yet, let's require ID to vote.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

Clint,

That's a good point.

And, it should have been more on my mind, I have been hearing calls for that on con-media.

AJ Lynch said...

Why should Trump provide evidence? Dems say outrageous things all the time and no one demands they provide evidence..

i.e. "Gitmo is a recuruiting tool for ISIS so we must close it down". How many times has Obama and the media repeated that claim? Where is their evidence?

Original Mike said...

"Go for it and recount all the states."

Yawn. Audit the voter rolls for non-citizens, multiple voters, and dead people.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

Clint,

OTOH, I just checked, it doesn't look like total R control of particular state legislatures is anywhere close enough for approval.

So, still = nope.

Jupiter said...

There is also the fact that most Mexicans who become US citizens do not give up their Mexican citizenship, although US law requires them to do so. I would expect that they vote in any election for which they happen to be present, in either country. Of course, here in Oregon, they don't actually have to be present. You can mail it in. From anywhere on Earth.

Bob Ellison said...

Over the Thanksgiving holiday, I heard friends say things like "I never heard that" in response to bland things like Obamacare raising health-insurance premiums and Obama claiming credit for America's relative lowering of CO2 emissions.

"I didn't hear any of that." Stated with incredulity plastered like mustard.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

BTW,

What would cons do to change the constitution? Make the US more like Alabama and Mississippi, or whatever state it is that cons are most strongly in control of the gov?

Sheesh.

Qwinn said...

Erm. Republicans fully control 33 state legislatures. With 34, they can pass any amendment they want. I think one shy qualifies as "anywhere close".

Crimso said...

When was the last time someone took a strop to Occam's Razor? Anyone? No one has? That explains a lot.

Qwinn said...

Well, first amendment I want to see passed is a Voter Integrity Amendment. I laid out what I want to see in it in another thread.

And once Democrats can no longer get away with rampant fraud, they'll never win again

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

Before cons make the whole country more like Alabama and Mississippi and other strongly con dominated states, if you take away the con states where folks can stick a straw in the ground to pump out dough (and other natural resource stuff), what's so great about them vs. the blue (or purple) states that are succeeding in the 21st century?

Just sayin'

Jupiter said...

AJ Lynch said...
"Why should Trump provide evidence? Dems say outrageous things all the time and no one demands they provide evidence.. "

Heh. Perhaps more to the point, all of a sudden Trump has Democrats denying that they commit voter fraud. Well, massive voter fraud. That is, massive, systematic voter fraud. Or rather, Millions? Come on! Not millions. A million is a lot. Geez, if we knew how to steal millions ...

Crimso said...

"Make the US more like Alabama and Mississippi"

Bigots can fuck off.

Dr Weevil said...

I don't have time to try to track this down on the web, and it may not be available any more, but . . . .
I have distinct memories that during the 2000 Florida recount a newspaper found thousands of illegal votes by convicted felons in just the few large South Florida counties they checked. There's no way to be sure how the felons voted, but (as I recall) their party registration was roughly 3/4 D, 1/8 R, 1/8 I, so we can be pretty sure they gave more votes to Gore than to Bush.
Some newspaper (may have been the same one) also checked two or three Florida counties where lots of rich people had vacation homes against two or three counties in New York where rich people with vacation homes in Florida tend to have their primary residences. Again, they found hundreds, or maybe it was thousands, who had voted in both states in the same election, and the vast majority were registered Democrats. Of course, the only way to catch all such people would be to check the voter roles of every county in the U.S. against every other county.
I found the double-voting story easy to believe, because I have been personally encouraged to vote in two states in the same election by a Democratic campaign worker. When I told him that was illegal, he treated me like I was the asshole in the conversation. A lot of Democrats will quite openly tell you that it's OK for (e.g.) a college student to vote at school and at home - at least if they think you're a fellow Democrat.
If the 2000 election had been a clean one, I'm pretty sure Gore wouldn't even have been close in Florida, and Bush would have won the popular vote by a comfortable margin.
One more thing I recall about the 2000 recount: if a ballot was straight party-line but left the presidential line blank, recounters were marking it for Gore. Lots of people intentionally leave the presidential line blank if they don't like either candidate, but vote for lesser offices. George W. and Laura Bush did exactly that this month. Counting them as Trump voters would be a lie and a fraud, and counting those ballots the way they did in Florida was a lie and a fraud.

HT said...

There is also the fact that most Mexicans who become US citizens do not give up their Mexican citizenship, although US law requires them to do so.

https://mx.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/dual-nationality/

Being a dual national and carrying the passport of another country is perfectly legal. Under U.S. law, naturalizing as a citizen of a foreign state will not in and of itself cause you to lose your U.S. citizenship. General information about dual nationality is available here.

The naturalization process in Mexico is managed by the Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores (SRE). There are several methods of naturalizing in Mexico. Generally, Mexican nationality can be acquired by meeting various residency, cultural integration, or marriage requirements. Please contact SRE’s main office for more information on the application procedure.

Ann, you need a fact checker.

chickelit said...

@Althouse: Unless you dispute that there are tens of millions of illegals in this country, I don't follow your reasoning. You assume that a certain percentage wouldn't dare to break the law if they thought that their families were at stake. This situation is going to get much much uglier.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

Just as Cuba and the USSR were test cases for communism, Alabama and Mississippi are test cases for R ideology.

Bob Ellison said...

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said..."What would cons do to change the constitution? Make the US more like Alabama and Mississippi, or whatever state it is that cons are most strongly in control of the gov?"

See, this is the point. That LPBO person whose name is too irritating to try to type is saying yer all yokels and hillbillies. Thus Trump wins.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

The R states w/ natural resources are like Saudi Arabia, they can F-up and still have things work out.

Dr Weevil said...

Clarification:
Recounters were counting top-line-blank ballots with straight-ticket voting below the top line for Gore if the straight-ticket votes were D, for Bush if they were R. As I recall, there were a lot more of the former. Don't know if that was more because Gore was a stuffed-shirt and bore, or because his running-mate was an Orthodox Jew, or a bit of each.

HT said...

Thousands of stories on undocumented students:
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Here-s-how-undocumented-students-are-able-to-10634872.php
Here’s how undocumented students are able to enroll


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/11/25/people-in-us-illegally-no-longer-barred-from-2-georgia-state-universities.html

http://time.com/4575621/sanctuary-campuses-donald-trump-undocumented-students-protect/

http://fortune.com/2016/11/16/sanctuary-for-undocumented-students/

Dr Weevil said...

One more sign of rampant fraud:
A few months ago a college student was arrested in Harrisonburg, VA trying to submit 19 fraudulent registrations. He was only caught because the registrar recognized one name: a well-known local school principal who had died a year or two before. I kept waiting for a follow-up story about how he was being grilled to find out how much his boss and his fellow-workers knew about what he was doing, who suggested that he do it, whether he got paid extra for fraudulent registrations, whether he had plans to vote for those people, how many years in jail he was facing, and so on, but it appears that no one cared enough to ask the obvious questions - or at least no one cared enough to inform the public.

Mark said...

Hillary's lead in popular vote comes entirely from California, where the potential for illegal voting is great since it has been shown that they do not verify identification and citizenship.

Meanwhile, it is not much of an argument to object to Trump's claim of millions of fraudulent votes when you yourself are are claiming tens or hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes in order to throw the election to Clinton.

chickelit said...

Jelly asked what might make con-dominated states more worth emulating. Fertility rates is a good comeback. The deepest red flyover states have a higher fertility rate than the coastal bastions of barrenness. Of course the coastal elite retort is that they'd much rather import population from abroad than raise them.

Bob Ellison said...

Non-citizen voters are zombies. That could be a good movie theme.

Chicago, 2020. Fear walks the streets as fear walks...the streets, I dunno. I'm just a narrator with a gravelly voice. Anyway, zombies are out to claim their due. And their due is...due. Dwayne Johnson stars as Rahm Emmanuel in I Didn't Vote for This!

mockturtle said...

Chickelit says: Of course the coastal elite retort is that they'd much rather import population from abroad than raise them.

Sure! That's the European way.

Robert said...

What we know for sure is that there are millions of illegals in America, Latino illegals as a group were very motivated to try and help Hillary win, and Democrats do not try very hard to discourage or thwart them from voting.

Did millions of illegals vote? I have no idea. But to refute it, you have to determine how many did. And I don't think that's something Democrats want to determine or even discuss. Because even if it's not millions, it's also probably not an insignificant number in the states where Hillary got most of her votes to maximize her popular vote count.

HT said...

Housing and undocumented immigrants

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news/deportations-could-impact-real-estate-market/article_ba2c5ed0-b470-11e6-a973-d7ecc205faa8.html

Sanctuary church
https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2016/10/31/undocumented-immigrants-sanctuary-church/

Housing/blight
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article74446352.html

EMD said...

What if all of the illegals voted Trump?

Jupiter said...

"If you provoke the animal to fight, he fights."

I am guessing that is a reference to the old French song;

"Cet animal est très méchant,
Quand on l'attaque il se défend."

Original Mike said...

"What if all of the illegals voted Trump?"

Irrelevant

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