October 4, 2016

It's the big Vice Presidential debate!

Watch with me. Comment away. I'll join in if and when I've got something to say. Meanwhile, my son John Althouse Cohen will be live-blogging as he tends to do, which is very well, beyond what I'm likely to do. I'll probably take notes and then expand on things when I've got a transcript to quote.

UPDATE, 8:11: Kaine is plugging in memorized material, not listening to the question.

8:13: First interruptions comes from Kaine. And it's very disruptive.

8:16: Quijano interrupts Pence to say "We need to move on" then lets Kaine speak at length. Pence tries to speak again and Quijano immediately says "We need to move on" again! The moderator seems completely biased.

8:38: I can't believe the way Kaine is allowed to break in, to make a long speech with a series of attacks on Trump, and then Pence gets zero opportunity to respond, but Quijano insists on moving on to the next question. Kaine is interrupting so much, it's making me feel terrible. It feels so unfair.

AFTER THE DEBATE:

Who won?
 
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222 comments:

1 – 200 of 222   Newer›   Newest»
Rob said...

Kaine has two glasses of water to Pence's one. What do we make of that?

320Busdriver said...

I don't like co kaine

What a dick

Matthew Sablan said...

I was neutral on Kaine; he's incredibly rude and smarmy.

Pence is about what I expected. Average.

Hagar said...

I can believe Tim Kaine has been a trial lawyer.

TreeJoe said...

Wow so this is what normal debates sound like. I kinda missed this.

So far Kaine looks awful and Pence is surprisingly good.

Big Mike said...

I was neutral on Kaine; he's incredibly rude and smarmy.

I've been telling you folks that Kaine is smarmy. How about you pay attention to a Virginian when I'm writing about a Virginia politician.

Rob said...

So it's a choice between a you're hired president and a you're fired president. Thanks, Clinton campaign, for that incisive bit of political advocacy.

Matthew Sablan said...

I'm an adopted Virginian; I just never paid this attention to him.

traditionalguy said...

Kaine literally smirks with an entitlement look that says he expects to have the moderator totally on his side. It's all openly rigged again. But like Bob Wright said, the Media now do it with no subtlety.

Matthew Sablan said...

I don't know; the moderator knocked him down a few times.

Matthew Sablan said...

Wow. Pence actually brought up OTHER taxes besides income tax. That's... awesome.

Michael K said...

I watched a few minutes. Kaine is following the Biden precedent and the moderator is letting him do so.

Constant interrupting. A smirk and nonsense.

Matthew Sablan said...

Pence asked if he takes the deductions he's allowed to.

Pence... is awesome at this.

Matthew Sablan said...

And total pages listed too. He's really in control of this.

traditionalguy said...

She is still interrupting Pence for Kaine's benefit, at Kaine's command, again and again. She is openly biased at Kaine's'command.

walter said...

Wow..moderator actually says something about stepping on each other...

320Busdriver said...

Good mod. Good Questions

On SS....of course Kaine says increase taxes/cap...

1 trick pony

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Pence is ahead on substance, but he's light years ahead on personality.

Matthew Sablan said...

I like how Pence explains things. He's a nice contrast to Clinton's mechanicalism, Trump's raw emotionalism and Kaine's jerkiness.

320Busdriver said...

Pence has discipline

Kaine not so much

cubanbob said...

When is Pence going to stop be mister nice guy and flat out demand when is Hillary going to released her suppressed draft criminal indictment? He should pin Kaine and ask him how can he support and run with a criminal and traitor?

Rob said...

The scourge of gun violence. That's the 2016 successor to the scourge of psoriasis.

Matthew Sablan said...

The shooting at VA Tech wasn't caused by a lack of background checks.

The government didn't put the guy on this list. The government -failed- the community in that shooting.

Bill said...

Lidokaine is more annoying than I thought he'd be, pandering left and right like a typical Democrat pol.

walter said...

Ooh..Holocaust survivor killed by "gun violence"..polished delivery.

Matthew Sablan said...

Pence isn't that bad. I feel comfortable with him now-ish.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Quijano is TOTALLY in the bag for Kaine

walter said...

To this point, Trump better reframed the "scourge" as being a much larger problem in gun controlled Chicago.

Tommy Duncan said...

I listened to Kaine (not) answer a question. I need a shower. The man is vile.

Pence is measured and in control.

The moderator is literally worse than useless. "Useless" is normally a neutral term. She is not neutral and she cannot do her job in a competent or fair manner.

This sucks and America knows it.

traditionalguy said...

The moderator is joining Kaine in debating Pence about whatever strong points Pence makes.

This much unfairness is hard to watch.

Matthew Sablan said...

I like how Pence is handling things. He said: "That is not what I said" when Kaine accused him of saying a thing he didn't say.

He's now hitting back about "insult-driven campaign."

He got the moderator to agree, "This is the governor's time."

That's awesome.

Matthew Sablan said...

Though she really pushed back against Pence now. I don't know; she's better than Holt so far.

walter said...

Deportation Nation!

Bill said...

Jaltcoh is one heck of a live-blogger. Thanks for the referral.

320Busdriver said...

Hillary says shes sorry ...a lot... for a lot of things...

She sure is sorry

How many refugees does she want to admit?

Matthew Sablan said...

Pence can't get a sentence out without Kaine interrupting.

Amadeus 48 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

I wonder if Kaine's filibuster is going to turn off voters?

He goes on and on and the "moderator" lets him do so. She needs a buzzer and a microphone cutoff but I doubt she would use it.

It's Biden 2012 all over again. Play the fool.

Chuck said...

I have tried to put myself in the position of Pence, having to defend the myriad Trump outrages. Can't do it.

That said, Tim Kaine has always done that interrupting and talking-over thing. He's done it on every tv talk show whenever he's been challenged. He's a pro at it. It always leaves me wanting to punch him.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Bin Laden is dead" is really one of the few talking points Kaine was told to get out there, huh?

Matthew Sablan said...

His five point plan ... "We have to win"

Mac McConnell said...

Tim Kaine reminds me of why we loved kicking the shit out of Rockhurst HS students. They never shut the fuck up, with the exception of having a Benedictine's dick in their mouths.

Matthew Sablan said...

Wow. This entire answer is ridiculous.

traditionalguy said...

It's a one, two, three dance step. Pence speaks some powerful point, kaine quickly interrupts, and when Pence starts to respond, the paid creep stops Pence from speaking as she demands they go on to another subject.

One, two, three.

One, two, three.

Matthew Sablan said...

Kaine is a clown.

Tommy Duncan said...

The only difference between Tim Kaine and a bag of dog manure is the bag.

Matthew Sablan said...

Pence: "Policy. What's going on in the world."

Kaine: "TRUMP IS MEAN!"

Big Mike said...

The moderator is previewing Anderson Cooper in the next debate. Hope Trump and Kellyanne are taking notes and creating counter strategies.

Rob said...

Kaine can't help that he looks like the prototypical parochial school bully. What he can help is acting like one.

MikeR said...

Can someone remind me, which one is Trump's VP and which one is Clinton's?

buwaya said...

Ahem,
Does anyone still doubt the MSM is a single coordinated mechanism?

320Busdriver said...

I think Hillary will make immigration possible if you donate to the foundation. Thats reform.

Matthew Sablan said...

Kaine: WE WON'T DISCRIMINATE, BUT WE'LL LOOK AND IF WE DON'T KNOW, THEY WON'T COME IN! YOU'RE A RACIST!

MayBee said...

It's absurd to say you can't discriminate in immigration based on the nation you are from.

We do that all the time. Come here as a UK citizen vs come here from the Philippines. What kind of visa do you need and how do you get it?

Amadeus 48 said...

Buwaya--Journolist didn't go away, it went underground. Message coordination is intact.

Matthew Sablan said...

Did anyone else catch Kaine try and conflate Mexico with Muslim nations?

320Busdriver said...

Oh thats bad bias...in the tank

Matthew Sablan said...

Pence hit it right there that their sons would be court martialed.

alan markus said...

Clinton was interrupted 51 times by Trump. Because that is what men do to women - Trump hates women.

Someone should put together an ad - every time Clinton's mouth is in motion speaking overlay something Kaine is saying during this debate.

Amadeus 48 said...

Althouse: "It feels so unfair."

Ann, what did you think was going to happen tonight?

walter said...

Aleppo..
Gary takes a deep hit...

Bill said...

Tweet from Mona Charen:

Pence is winning, but in an oleaginous way.

Tommy Duncan said...

Kaine and the moderator lack self awareness. They both are acting badly and don't know or care.

Matthew Sablan said...

Whoa, wait. Pence doesn't get to respond to Kaine's attacks and lies about the taxes?

Matthew Sablan said...

"Do you not take deductions?"

That's a powerful line.

Jon Ericson said...

It's not funny.

walter said...

equating hil going to washington for 911 $$ support with tax deductions.
That's a weird brain fart.
I hope that was spontaneous.

320Busdriver said...

45% of the deplorables have no or a negative federal income tax rate anyway. They don't support the military either. Do they.

cubanbob said...

Pence should remind Kaine the last time a Clinton was in the White House North Korea got nuclear weapons.

Mac McConnell said...

Kaine, Hillary will expand our cooperation with our friends sharing intel. Pence should have answered, Sure like Hillary did with our friends Egypt and Libya.

walter said...

Blogger Matthew Sablan said...
"Do you not take deductions?"
--
Better: Do you pay more than you owe?

Matthew Sablan said...

Pence is really fighting back; he just sounds sick of it now.

buwaya puti said...

Journolist was (mostly) amateur.
Getting outed certainly was amateur and small time. The dorks were coming up with their own messaging.
These guys these days are run by a general staff dealing through their corporate management.

Temujin said...

Jesus, what an annoying fuck Kaine is.

cubanbob said...

Wow! I thought that Joe Biden was the ultimate political idiot until I saw Tim Kaine.

Matthew Sablan said...

Kaine has talking points, and Pence just called him out on using the same line. "This is the grade school thing, right?"

Rob said...

Pence accuses Hillary of being feckless. Nobody ever accused Bill of that.

Oh, sorry. Feckless!

Barry Dauphin said...

A focus group being conducted by CBS News contributor Frank Luntz believes Democratic vice presidential nominee Tim Kaine is interrupting Republican nominee Mike Pence too much during the debate.

320Busdriver said...

Is Kaine so stupid to ask us to believe Trumps u.s. tax returns will tell us all we need to know about Trumps Russian biz entities..

Wow! He's that stupid.

walter said...

Man..allowing bought and paid for Clinton campaign allude to foreign influence..wake up.

320Busdriver said...

Thanks for the foundation attack Pence..about fn time

Bill said...

Tweet from Megan McArdle:

Someone called Clinton a “front row kid”. Kaine’s doing his best impression of kid in the front row who waves his hand in the air all period

Matthew Sablan said...

Pence is hitting this very hard about the foundation vs. rumors.

I like this.

Matthew Sablan said...

The State Department investigation is worthless. It needs to be an external investigator.

walter said...

Finally..excellent

Mod: Governor please

Matthew Sablan said...

Wait -- no response allowed about accusing Trump of divided loyalties?

MBR said...

Pence is landing far more substantive blows than Trump ever did in the first debate. Trump should study and learn.

narciso said...

I disagree buwaya, they were integral to moving obama up, and keeping rivals like the huntress off balance, and they still operate the same way, although some like chris cilizza, are mindnumbing stupid,

sane_voter said...

Kaine is a turd.

The Godfather said...

What Pence proved is that a persuasiive and coherent case can be made for Tromp's policies -- including those I disagree with -- and I wish that Tromp would do so.

Birches said...

I can't see how anyone could like Tim Kaine

Bill said...

Kaine: "I'm not going to change my religious practice to get one vote."

WTF???

Barry Dauphin said...

Pence should just say that the next four years of a Clinton administration will be exactly like the debate tonight. Government intrusion into your space all the time.

sane_voter said...

I have lost alot of respect for VA voters that elected this guy multiple times.

sane_voter said...

But of course VA elected the slimy Terry McAuliffe. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

AReasonableMan said...

I don't believe anything any politician says about religion.

Amadeus 48 said...

Birches: "I don't see how anyone could like Tim Kaine."

My brother lives in Virginia and says the same thing. He calls him a smarmy dope.

Rob said...

Time to play Jeopardy.

Pence tries to spend some time his knees every day.

How is Mike Pence similar to Monica Lewinsky?

traditionalguy said...

Joe McCarthy's style was very similar to Kaine's. I watched the McCarthy Army Hearings. The smirk while making wild false accusations is identical. Do they teach that duping people smirk in Jesuit Catholic Schools?

Seriously, he is a McCarthy twin.

sane_voter said...

ARM

I generally agree with you.

Matthew Sablan said...

Does Kaine have anything to say beyond his minor circle of "ways to insult Trump?"

Matthew Sablan said...

"Why don't you trust women?"

I think Pence should just say: "Have you no shame?"

Matthew Sablan said...

"We have to bring this country together you racist hater morons."

Sebastian said...

"I can't believe the way Kaine is allowed to break in" A little late to break out the I-can't-believe faux surprise shtick. I can't believe it's so unfair!

But just as you don't believe that people believe what they profess to believe, I don't believe that you don't believe what you profess not to believe. You know the drill. Progs gonna do what progs gonna do. It's who they are.

PB said...

I think we should have the Nickelodeon folks involved for the next debate. When a candidate interrupts his/her opponent a big bucket of slime should be dropped on their head.

Kaine just can't STFU.

320Busdriver said...

Never a better case made for drowning it all in the bathtub...the federal behemoth that is.

Matthew Sablan said...

Pence won this on points and poise.

He was so totally average compared to Kaine's "I'm an asshole" position.

walter said...

Took the bait on abortion...

cubanbob said...

I have to admit the moderator is quite attractive but all the same she ably demonstrated why CBS stands for See B.S.

Limited blogger said...

My daughter is not political... she called Kaine a weasel.

YoungHegelian said...

The Republicans have to stop being dupes & demand a 50/50 split for the moderators --- one Republican choice for one Democratic choice. They gotta be hard-ass about it, too. The networks will cave. These debates are ratings magnets, & the networks will sacrifice reporter pride for the ratings in a heartbeat.

Mac McConnell said...

I apologise to the Benedictines, my mistake, it was Marxist Jesuit's dicks in Kaine's mouth.

traditionalguy said...

Kaine was pompous and condescending. He must think American voters are all stupid.

mockturtle said...

Kaine came across as more of a puerile annoyance than anything else.

Big Mike said...

@sane voter, the Commonwealth of Virginia used to be a true two party state, and life was good. But between Clinton, Bush, and (especially!) Obama the counties in close to DC, Fairfax and Arlington, have turned incandescent blue as a result of (1) Democrats being brought into the government as the federal bureaucracy expanded (yes, Bush too) and Marylanders plus Nrw Yorkers who moved to Virginia for a superior life, but brought the same stupid voting patterns that wrecked the places where they used to live.

buwaya puti said...

There was a separate team working in 2008 beyond Journolist, not least among the consultants in McCains campaign and the networks. Those were the pros. Difference after that was they are now all pros.

readering said...

It will be interesting to see what the tv numbers are on this debate and even more to see how many people switched off with a headache midway through. Hard to imagine anyone made up their mind on whom to vote for based on these 90 minutes let alone changed their mind (maybe a few Putin admirers for Trump who were devastated by Pence's betrayal).

ALH said...

Biggest winner tonight is Mitt Romney--- Russia must be our biggest geopolitical adversary, cuz' they sure did talk about Putin a lot

readering said...

Kaine doesn't appear to think voters are stupid. He appears to think they are professional stenographers.

David Begley said...

Kaine was an annoying liar. I wanted to puke when he cited his Jesuit education.

How did Kaine win a single election?

William said...

Kaine really did look a little smarmy. Sort of like the kind of gregarious priest you wouldn't want to leave your kid alone with.......His wife is much more overweight than Pence's. I hope Donald mentions that n a tweet later tonight.

Jupiter said...

Hey you guys! Kaine went to Harvard, and you didn't. So there.

The Cracker Emcee said...

Incredible to think that, in all likelihood, sometime between 2017 and 2020 Kaine will be sworn in as President of the United States. Just when you'll be sure that it can't get worse, it will.

buwaya puti said...

I dont think Kaine can be blamed on the Jesuits. Sometimes good trees bear strange fruit. He also comes from a generation before the general foolishness.
I myself went to the Jesuits for grad school (two different Jesuit schools), and I guess that was long after Kaine was done with them.
Granted, being a La Sallite born and bred, my conviction is the Christian Brothers have always been more straightforward and practical. No points for trying to creatively wiggle out of things.

Unknown said...

I love how Pence threw Trump under the bus. Pence is setting himself up to run in 2020.

Jupiter said...

The Cracker Emcee said...
"Incredible to think that, in all likelihood, sometime between 2017 and 2020 Kaine will be sworn in as President of the United States. Just when you'll be sure that it can't get worse, it will."

Nonsense. I'd take Kaine over Hillary in a heartbeat. Hell, I'd take Adolph Hitler in the flesh over Hillary. In a heartbeat. It's not the bag, it's the baggage.

Prosecutorial Indiscretion said...

The Silver Fox absolutely crushed it. He's the most presidential person in the race. I hate that this is his only debate. Maybe if Trump gets the sniffles again, we can see Pence vs. Hillary.

Mutaman said...

Max Boot ‏@MaxBoot 47m47 minutes ago

Pence has delivered more criticism of Putin tonight than Trump has done in his whole life.

David Begley said...

Smary. Smug. Typical Harvard.

Limited blogger said...

Hope this means Pence gets more screen play.

Unknown said...

Pence wants to force women to give birth, that will surely get Trump elected President.

Unknown said...

My father will restore respect....OR ELSE!

walter said...

Hear "news" summary already honing in on Kaine outlining worldwide tentacles of Trump foundation. Soundbite achieved.

walter said...

Unknown said...
Pence wants to force women to give birth,
--
Said too much for a Veep candidate. Not his or Trump's call.

Unknown said...

Trump is going to get a phone call from Putin, ordering him to shut his running mate up about Russia being an aggressor.

William said...

I think Pence won the debate by a wide margin, but I doubt that he won over a single vote.......I don't understand Trump's style, but he wins votes.

mockturtle said...

buwaya asks: Does anyone still doubt the MSM is a single coordinated mechanism?

I don't doubt it. There is an obvious and well-orchestrated effort to keep Trump out of the White House. We now have a monolithic propaganda machine and I think most people are aware of the fact.

walter said...

Basically Hil and Tim aim to deflect the more potent criticisms with "I know you are but what am I?"

EMD said...

"Pence has delivered more criticism of Putin tonight than Trump has done in his whole life."

Is Putin on the ballot? Oh, in progconspiracyland he must be.

Unknown said...

Why couldn't Pence defend Trump? When he tried he fell flat and was very unbelievable, it was canned. Pence really took advantage of tonight to distance himself from Trump on the Russian connection...where there is smoke there is fire.

Eric Trump says his father will be himself at the Sunday debate, lol, oh goody!

Mac McConnell said...

buwaya puti
Kaine went to Honduras and other countries in the region to pursue the Liberation Theology being practised in Central and South American Marxist Jesuit priests, they were his heroes.

Unknown said...

Putin is Trump's real running mate.

buwaya puti said...

Maybee,
No need for a visa from the UK or for that matter the EU countries (mostly). As I travel on my Spanish passport, even if I werent a permanent resident I could come and go to the US as I please. If I were to use my Philippine passport however, this requires a visa, applied for at the US embassy. No doubt, given the circumstances, they would give me a pretty much wide-open multiple reentry visa or whatever they do these days for VIPs. An ordinary Filipino has little chance of getting a US tourist visa.

Oso Negro said...

Unknown - Who the fuck are you? Are you a paid shill, or just a shill?

Matthew Sablan said...

"Why couldn't Pence defend Trump?"

-- Why did Kaine insist on attacking someone who wasn't there instead of debating his actual opponent? It was mean spirited gossip and mud slinging. I know some of the accusations he made were false, so I kind of tuned out his attempt to turn the debate into a five minute hate.

Gk1 said...

Its hilarious to hear how desperate the democrats have become about Putin, Russia and Trump's supposed allegiance to them. No one buys it and its not sticking. Try another one, quick!

chickelit said...

The question shouldn't be "Who won?" It should be "who looked worse?" Kaine looked worse by a lot. Kaine looked bad. Asshole bad.

chickelit said...

Oso Negro said...
Unknown - Who the fuck are you? Are you a paid shill, or just a shill?

It's obviously Inga.

traditionalguy said...

Who else was claiming to have proof that the Russians were secretly inside of our Government positions and demanded proof his accusations were false, or else?

It was Kaine's twin, the Catholic Senator from Wisconsin, Joseph R. McCarthy.

Drago said...

Unknown: "Trump is going to get a phone call from Putin, ordering him to shut his running mate up about Russia being an aggressor"

LOL

LOL

LOL

Limited blogger said...

Another debate with no mention of Benghazi?

BDNYC said...

Anyone who buys into the Putin-baiting is a fucking moron. Intelligent Hillary fans must know how weak that sauce is.

holdfast said...

Buwaya said "Journolist didn't go away, it went underground. Message coordination is intact"

Actually it now transmits in the clear - that's what Twitter is - the trick is to know at any given moment which Dem Operative is calling the tune and which ones are dancing. That's where you need your secret decoder. It's like when the Allied forces would embed instructions to the Resistance in BBC programming.

narciso said...

the journolist is the institutionalized version of what tyrell called the kultursmog, like klein, yglesias and say beutler, are increasingly too vapid, but they sold obama's agenda from healthcare to somelives matter to benghazi,

chickelit said...

It was Kaine's twin, the Catholic Senator from Wisconsin, Joseph R. McCarthy.

There is a physical resemblance, and after tonight, a common demeanor.

cubanbob said...

Unknown said...
Pence wants to force women to give birth, that will surely get Trump elected President.

10/4/16, 10:06 PM"

Why should I have to pay for your birth controls and birth control? Why should other people have their religious views disrespected by being forced to pay for other people's abortions?

Pence was too much a gentleman to ask Kaine how in good conscious he could be a criminal's running mate.

Unknown said...

It's always "weak" until it's not. Just like Trump's taxes. No one wonders why he won't realese his taxes to the public? No one sees any odd behavior on Trump's Putin man love? You people really are dupes.

Unknown said...

Cubanbob, so what about Trump doing business with Castro during the embargo, good stuff, huh?

Matthew Sablan said...

"Cubanbob, so what about Trump doing business with Castro during the embargo, good stuff, huh?"

-- Did anything come from that story besides more unproven innuendo?

Look: I don't like Trump. But for the last few weeks, all I've heard are accusations, insults and innuendo. He's got a lot of things about him that really make him a bad choice! So why do I keep hearing things that aren't proven?

exiledonmainstreet said...

BDNYC said...
Anyone who buys into the Putin-baiting is a fucking moron. Intelligent Hillary fans must know how weak that sauce is.

10/4/16, 10:31 PM

Yeah, but we don't have any intelligent Hillary fans here. Witness Unknown/Inga's hysterical blathering.

buwaya puti said...

Klein and Yglesias and Kos and Drum were always pissants. Marginalia. The big deal were the networks, the big newspapers and CNN, and of course all their components. The coordination in messaging now is between them. Whatever their biases used to be, back in 2000 say, you could expect hostility but not uniformity or detailed cooperation with the Democratic campaign or whatever the big deal of the day was supposed to be. Now its uniformity.

traditionalguy said...

Have you no decency Senator Kaine? At long last have you no decency?

narciso said...

yes it was a wider network, but the messaging began there, the black lives matter movement with coates, blow, the daisy chain involving the rhodes road show, (j street, plowshares)

Michael Fitzgerald said...

William said...
Kaine really did look a little smarmy. Sort of like the kind of gregarious priest you wouldn't want to leave your kid alone with.......His wife is much more overweight than Pence's. I hope Donald mentions that n a tweet later tonight.

10/4/16, 9:57 PM

LOL! That's gold, William- Gold!

narciso said...

more like joe isuzu, 'you can trust me' waiting for the lightning strike,

buwaya puti said...

There always were those guys, the SEIU purple gang, Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, etc. But they werent coordinated.
Big diff now is that it seems there is centralized consistent funding with, in the case of BLM, a coordination office that has swat teams on retainer ready to run into an exploitable situation, such as NC. All for GOTV agitation of course.

Derek Watson said...

Watching Hannity on Fox... What happened to Jesse Jackson? He seems like he has declined a lot since I last heard him on TV.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Pence won, I think. Kaine simply smirked too much. And broke in too often into Pence's speech.

Mike said...

Drago has the links that tell the Putin story better than Kaine and Clinton. Of course it's the exact opposite of the story they tell, but this one is the truth. Barrack ("I'll be more flexible after the election") Obama and his flexible secretary of state Hilda Clinton gave Putin wide berth in the Crimea and she turned a profit on it while giving away our strategic uranium assets. That's what has already happened.

All Clinton Kaine and the Unknown dupes here have is rumor and innuendo. In the end, what we KNOW about Clinton will prove much more distasteful to the body politic than what you fear about Trump. Not even Clinton believes her own bullshit. She's only fighting Trump this hard because she has a raw desire for PERSONAL power and wealth.

Mike said...

It's always "weak" until it's not. Just like Trump's taxes. No one wonders why he won't realese his taxes to the public?

No one cares. That's a TRADITION. Your candidate breaks LAWS. That type of comparison doesn't help Hillary. Only idiots who don't remember her taking tax credits for donating Bill's used underwear will think a perfectly legal carry-forward is more interesting than her world wide shake down scheme for personal enrichment.

Remember Unknown fool, she's the one claiming to be a Public Servant. A "servant" who lives the life of a duchess on an alleged "charity's" dime, selling access to her throne. Donalkd was a for-profit executive. Yet he looks so much less greedy and grasping than her highness, doesn't he?

coupe said...

I'm just glad the Honduran peasants only had to suffer Kaine for 9 months. I bet they are all Protestants now...

Bought and paid-for asshole.

As my whimsy leads me.. said...

Kaine was a pain.
Pence was able. This time Able beat Kaine.

cubanbob said...

Unknown said...
It's always "weak" until it's not. Just like Trump's taxes. No one wonders why he won't realese his taxes to the public? No one sees any odd behavior on Trump's Putin man love? You people really are dupes.

10/4/16, 10:38 PM
Unknown said...
Cubanbob, so what about Trump doing business with Castro during the embargo, good stuff, huh?"

Innuendo regarding Trump's so-called Cuban dealings versus Clinton's 33,000 counts of obstruction of justice, 33,000 counts of violating the Freedom Of Information Act, 33,000 violations of the Federal Records Act, 33,000 counts of misprision of felony and as yet undisclosed number of violations of the Espionage Act. Then there is the graft. Then there is the tax law violations of her foundation. Speaking of releasing old documents, why hasn't Hillary released the draft of her White Water indictment? And as for taxes, do you take deductions? Or are you living off the taxpayers?

walter said...

Derek Watson said...What happened to Jesse Jackson? He seems like he has declined a lot since I last heard him on TV.
-- 8 years of not being the first black president..still wants to cut O's balls off.

narciso said...

Capitol Hill Cubans pointed what near beer that was, and the fact that eichenwald, who came up with the texaco kerfluffle 20 years ago, makes it even more squirrel than usual,

walter said...

Limited blogger said...
Another debate with no mention of Benghazi?
--
This...

Comanche Voter said...

I had a business meeting so missed the wrestling match. Wife watched. Said Pence looked good and reasonable; she thought the moderator did a better job than Lester Holdt at the Trump-Clinton pas de deux. Said Kaine was a smarmy interrupting jerk.

Now my sweet wife swings from the right side of the political plate, so I'd expect good reviews of Pence. But her take on Kaine was that he was a vile weasel--and she's not normally harsh in her judgments of other people.

walter said...

Imagine Pence commending Kaine for his son's service..then asking him about leave no man behind and if they ever discussed Benghazi.

coupe said...

Best comment I heard tonight: "Kaine was unhinged>"

Yep.

coupe said...

I saw a picture of Quijano leaving. She looked like both of those guys just ended her career.

walter said...

Hey..she does have great diction.

narciso said...

she might lauered for her trouble,

walter said...

"#Kainewreck"

chickelit said...

I saw a picture of Quijano leaving. She looked like both of those guys just ended her career.

She did a terrible job. Indefensible, really. I'd feel for her, if she were put up to it, but how will we ever know?

Andrew Pardue said...

The media will kill Hilary by overplaying their hand. They are so heavy handed in this thing it is bound to backfire. The thrill that went up Chris Matthews leg in 08 is looking like restraint about now.

coupe said...

walter said...Hey..she does have great diction.

I think she must be gay, because she seems to have no experience controlling her children.

Achilles said...

Blogger Amadeus 48 said...
"Buwaya--Journolist didn't go away, it went underground. Message coordination is intact."

No. This is beyond message coordination. For example NBC is owned by General Electric. General Electric doesn't pay taxes because it has lobbied so hard for green energy subsidies and other crony loopholes. General Electric is run by J. Imelt. Imelt is on numerous "special counsels" to Obamas economic development teams. General Electric and Imelt are huge donors to Clinton. They are the machinery behind cronyism in this country.

NBC, CNBC, and MSNBC are tools of the aristocracy to maintain their power and influence by keeping the right politicians in power and forcing the expansion of the crony state. CNN is owned by a similar group. ABC and CBS are the same. The NYT is owned by a person named Carlos Slim. He is a very rich and very corrupt Mexican National. The NYT does what he wants. He is not interested in news.

rcommal said...

Both VP candidates threw themselves on spikes, not just willingly but also deliberately.

M Jordan said...

I liked the moderator. She seemed pretty fair to me, though she did somewhat make equivalence between the two on interrupting. I was glad Kaine interrupted so much. He not only lost and lost big, he provided Trump with a mirror that he might be able to look at.

Lesson for Trump: Be like Mike. Disdain Kaine. Live and learn.

Guildofcannonballs said...

I would like to acknowledge trad Guy's consistent bigotry against Catholics, to the point even when proven correct (Joe McCarthy via the Venona Papers and M. Stanton Evans) in history's eyes trad guy still cannot contain his need to attempt to harm this group and these people. It is so pathetic and Quixotic I feel pity for our little trad fella. Cannot someone rid this diseased thinking out of mercy and a "there go I but for the grace of God" Christian charity?

Patton would have loved every time Joe fought the stinkin' rat bastard Commies that had invaded our government and various complexes, because Patton loved America and not just himself like trad guy blindedly cannot help himself from doing.

Hate the Church trad guy, but do it for the right reasons, Barnhardt-style.

Otherwise your hate just makes folks laugh at you and not the objects of your unconstrained Othering. You appear decrepit, old but desperate to be seen as hip or at least not senile. Like Hill, who hates McCarthy as much as you and all America-destroying Leftists.

tim in vermont said...

Why does Hillary pretend that was a hard choice? Was she on the fence about it??

No, Hillary has always been bloodthirsty. This time, like a stopped clock occasionally, she was right. It was Obama who had to be dragged into it, which she is tacitly acknowledging, even though all of the leaks that pointed that out at the time were called lies.

tim in vermont said...

What I don't get is when the Democrats went back to being the war party. Why are their trolls pounding the war drums against Putin? Why the fuck shouldn't we get along with him? It's not like it's our place to choose Russia's leader. But Hillary Clinton, World Police is on the job!

Guildofcannonballs said...

Kaine will be murdered by Hillary's order if they should lose this race, probably his whole family will get whacked in some auto "accident" or synchronized "suicide" ergo I withhold judgement on his debate skills.

Trump doesn't have a (massive as it were) body count like Bill and Hillary so it is only natural Pence would be more relaxed and/or less neurotic in these types of settings.

Alternatively, throw either Pence or Kaine a hatchet and shovel and demand they chop up a corpse and Pence would look like a fish out of water whilst Kaine's demeanor would appear perfunctory.

tim in vermont said...

Michelle throws Hillary under the bus!

“We need someone who’s honest and plays by the rules.” - Michelle Obama

Brando said...

I've been spoiled by the entertainment of the Trump debates so didn't bother watching this one. Though considering the relative ages of the presidential nominees, the VP debate should be more important than in previous years. Still, either Pence or Kaine would be an improvement over Trump or Clinton, so it doesn't matter much.

Bob Ellison said...

198th!

Rusty said...

199!

Humperdink said...

Kaine has said that his Catholic faith would have no relevance to his public life.

Faith?

MadisonMan said...

Missed it. Oh well. Probably worth a bucket of warm spit.

Will said...

Clear win for Pence. Kaine turned off a lot of people who knew little about him.

Moderator was a complete biased embarrassment. People notice when it is that obvious. Shameful!

Normally a VP debate will not swing too much impact except to solidify comfort level with the preferred head of the ticket. But I think this one may resonate more for two reasons:

1) due to the ages and health and, frankly, actions, of Cllnton and Trump. There is a higher-than-normal chance one of these guys will be President. I think it as quite obvious who would be better. Frank Luntz' dials made it quite clear.

2) Secondly, the unique pool of undecided this cycle. I saw many #NeverTrump comment on twitter that Pence was a pleasant surprise and they took back previous comments on his choice as VP. To the extent that Pence could pull back some #NeverTrump then his obvious win may resonate a lot more than normal. I doubt Kaine did the same for any Bernie fans.

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