October 14, 2016

"If you can’t handle some of the basic stuff that’s become a problem in the workforce today, then you don’t belong in the workforce."

"You can’t be negotiating billion-dollar deals if you can’t handle, like, you know."

Said Donald Trump Jr. in the middle of some chatter on "The Opie and Anthony Show" back in 2013.

Just reading the quote — under the HuffPo headline "Donald Trump Jr: Women Who Can’t ‘Handle’ Harassment ‘Don’t Belong In The Workforce’" — I thought it was awful. Naturally, I linked "harassment" to Trump Sr.'s "Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything." I imagined Trump Jr. saying women who want to be in the billion-dollar-deals workplace need to put up with pussy-grabbing and other forced, physical intrusions.

But I listened to the audio...



... and I think that they are talking about the kind of sexual harassment claim that is based on rough language — jokes and remarks with sexual content — and the photographs of naked women that might get displayed on some guy's computer screen. 

At some point, speech and the display of pictures in the workplace really can properly be seen as creating unequal conditions for women in the workplace, and people who care about that equality should want to think about where that point is. There are also freedom of speech interests on the other side. "The Opie and Anthony Show" isn't a good place to display your knowledge and thoughtfulness on this subject, and that's why it might be a good idea not to indulge in this kind of banter if you're going to get involved in politics.

I'm inclined to shrug this one off. It's years ago, it's Trump's son, and it's casual banter. I'm most uneasy about the idea that women are being too fussy and therefore should stick with jobs that are already designed to accommodate female sensitivities. That's bad, but I can imagine a decent person who might just blurt that out.

I'd like for it to be possible for a free-speaking, real person to run for office. When I've found Trump (Sr.) appealing, it's because it has seemed that he'd broken down barriers and shown that it is good to speak expressively and to come right out and say the things it had seemed we weren't supposed to say. About a year ago, I had a dream in which I thanked him for showing that we don't have to be so repressed.

But at some point, these things accumulate, and you think: That's too much. And yet: Be careful. When a person has opponents, and they know these things accumulate, they can dribble out one thing after another and cause you to think it's too much. There are just so many things! But the things, individually, may, on careful inspection, be nothing. A lot of zeroes are not a lot. They're still nothing.

With Trump, the things are not all zeroes, and we may be so fed up that we don't care enough anymore to look closely to see what is really a zero or close to zero. If so, we empower the dribblers.

They can dribble anything now.

207 comments:

1 – 200 of 207   Newer›   Newest»
mikee said...

Hillary Clinton is using smear tactics to win election to the presidency. She is a totally corrupt, authoritarian politician. And at least half the country, including large numbers of her nominal opposition, seems OK with that.

Keep on talking about the smear used to deflect attention away from her. She will be around for at least four years, we have plenty of time to pay attention to her own problems, as she will be grounding them into our faces 24/7 as long as she is in power.

This place is doomed.

Ann Althouse said...

Writing this post, for the first time in my life, I realized I had no idea how to spell the plural of "zero."

That is, I had 2 ideas, but no idea which one was correct.

I still have ideas: 1. I don't know which is correct, 2. Both are correct.

Birches said...

I always thought it was zeroes...

eddie willers said...

Jeeze...when you get mad, you STAY mad.

Birches said...

Honestly, this all is just piling on now. I believe that most women who were inclined to vote for Trump are still voting for him. The vocal, horrified women were never going to vote for him anyway. All of these stories are just satisfying the media's bloodlust. The Clinton campaign should be careful though, they might be depressing their turn out if they keep spiking the ball like this.

Achilles said...

Boys are being run out of public schools.

Men are being run out of college.

Men are being run out of education schools and are no longer being allowed to be teachers.

Woman don't care about this. They are treating men like shit. But the press makes sure wmoen are weak and pliable and always oppressed.

mccullough said...

It's an interesting issue as to whether we've gone too far the other way in protecting against sexual harassment. Is it good that people are always watching what they say out of fear of being called misogynist (or racist, etc.). If you work at a bigger company or attend school, the best advice is to always keep quiet and keep your opinion to yourself. Be polite but not friendly. Don't let anyone outside your family and close friends ever know what you think.

CWJ said...

Serious discussions of the problems we face as a nation are nonexistent these last two elections. Compared to that, even Trump's ones are zeroes.

Chuck said...

The question that is going to arise now is "Why wasn't this sort of oppo-research done on Trump back when it could have done some good; before the primary season was won by Trump?"

I answer that question with a question; "Would this kind of information have damaged Trump in the primary, the way it is hurting him now?"

Achilles said...

A long time ago Tom Brady was on SNL and they did a skit on sexual harassment.

It is more important who does the act that what the act is

Bob Boyd said...

It's not just a dribble, it's a pump.
The vandals have the handle.

bagoh20 said...

He meant the obvious, and it would be obvious if you drop the victimhood glasses and imagine him talking about men too. Negotiating in business can be very stressful, with threats and big stakes. Some people, both men and women, get emotional and can't handle it. They get scared and look for mommy or daddy to save them from this tough situation. Our current law makes it unfair in that women often have the option to call daddy government, or daddy lawyer to bail them out. Men rarely have that option, they have to just quit and go elsewhere and try again. That makes women's responses a lot more obvious, and thus makes them less desirable in that position. The discriminatory use of the law strengthens the glass ceiling.

David Begley said...

Ann:

This is all a distraction. Move on.

In other news, Yemen (Iran's proxy) fires on our ships. Bill Clinton picks up $1m from Qatar. Qatar funds ISIS. Obama and Hillary exchange emails on her private server. Obama previously said he had no idea about her private server. Obama lied.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, I think they are droolers rather than dribblers, but your point is well taken.

Back when I was a young(ish) software engineer (in the early 1980s) a number of my colleagues posted nudes in their cubicles, generally made by printing and overstriking characters to generate coarse grey scale pixels. Since one needed to generate backspaces in order to create these pixels on the daisy wheel printers of the day, they were regarded as a cool feat of technology.

One of our software developers was a female and she did not like the pictures at all. In response she posted pictures of Michelangelo's David, sans fig leaf. Most of us got the point.

Anyway, I do agree with Trump, Jr. that some people use coarseness and foul language as part of their negotiating stance in an effort to prove how tough they are -- though the really tough generally don't need to stoop to that -- and one of today's Millennial delicate snowflakes probably wouldn't do well in that sort of negotiating environment. I'm seventy years old; I've pretty much seen it all.

chickelit said...

Christopher Hitchens on Hillary: "You either are as tough as [a man] or you are not..." (at around the 5 minute mark).

Big Mike said...

@David Begley, Obama lied and people have died.

sy1492 said...

Its Trump's locker room talk and Bob Dylan all the time for Ann. No post yet on the biggest political story of the century ...WikiLeaks. She voted for Obama and she will end up voting for Hillary.

BrianE said...

I get it. You want free speech, but not too much free speech. And you want to be the one to decide the limits.

eric said...

At this point I've become hardened to the dribbles. Not just for trump, but even for Clinton. My Twitter feed has at least one, "The election is over! Trump just won! Clinton says blah blah blah!" And I don't even bother to look. Because I know it's clickbait.

Am I the only one? I assume there are others like me, even some who are on the fence, and they just don't care about the surprises anymore. They realize there is a certain amount of BS factored in and they just ignore it.

Which is why late night television is able to lock Republican supporters. Because the news media feeds us a regular diet of false accusations against Republicans and most people have learned to ignore it. Then late night TV goes out and makes fun of them for not knowing the terrible things the Republican has said.

Titus said...

There are some Trump women fans wearing t'shirts that say Trump can grab my...with an arrow towards their pussy.

Of course they are hideous looking....and fat, natch.

You would have to find the pussy under the fat, like lift the fat up and put it to the side to get to the pussy....too much work, if you ask me.

grab em by the pussy.

Remorse said...

The pace of change has accelerated - that's not anyone's "fault", it's a reality probably b/c communication is instantaneous from almost anywhere now. So when mores start shifting people who are too slow and who get caught hanging on to the old ways get thrown under the bus. Sometimes really good, decent people (and Trump is definitely not one of those) just get caught hanging on to the wrong flag before they have time to figure it out. That's the way it is and I don't think anyone can fix that. All you can do is have compassion for the fallen.

bagoh20 said...

It's not just in negotiations, it's all day long at work where you have to interact with other people in both stressful and relaxed situations. Imagine if you could call a lawyer when someone in your family pissed you off or treated you unfairly or said the wrong thing. And it's not about power just at work, you have even less options with your family - you can't just quit your family and go get another one. You have to fight back and suck it up. You have deal, fight back, manage, survive. You have to be a grown up. If all that fails at work, you can leave, but you try those things rather than calling a lawyer. That's what men have to do.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

I'm most uneasy about the idea that women are being too fussy and therefore should stick with jobs that are already designed to accommodate female sensitivities.

The issue is not that women are being too fussy and therefore women should stick with jobs that are already designed to accommodate female sensitivities.

The issue is that some women are being too fussy and therefore those women should stick with jobs that are already designed to accommodate their sensitivities.

Men with those same sensitivities should also stick with those same jobs. Gender has nothing to do with it.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I can't imagine any middle to large company in the US would allow the display of naked pictures in the workplace. And they are all going to have written policies concerning how the employees are supposed to comport themselves. Because they are concerned (and should be) about a woman bringing a hostile environment complaint to the EEOC and suing them. With a written (and enforced) policy, they can point at it all on the individual who is accused of harassment.

Certainly, the IT policies all prohibit looking at porn at work and a lot of effort and expense is dedicated to blocking unsavory websites (which are usually a vector for malware anyway.

Chuck said...

sy1492 said...
Its Trump's locker room talk and Bob Dylan all the time for Ann. No post yet on the biggest political story of the century ...WikiLeaks


On a local radio program this morning, a caller was berating the host about how they had not done an adequate job of covering the Wikileaks story(ies). And the host replied, "What is the biggest headline, in your opinion, coming out of Wikileaks that we have missed?" In other words, what is the single most damaging thing to Hillary?

Sy; how would you answer that? And other ForeverTrump-ers; how would you answer?

JRoberts said...

Birches said...
"Honestly, this all is just piling on now. I believe that most women who were inclined to vote for Trump are still voting for him. The vocal, horrified women were never going to vote for him anyway. All of these stories are just satisfying the media's bloodlust. The Clinton campaign should be careful though, they might be depressing their turn out if they keep spiking the ball like this"

I believe you're looking at the wrong demographic. The allegations of Trump's sexual misconduct are not designed to scare off women - that's already baked in.

I believe this is intended to discourage and suppress the Evangelicals and the socially conservative segments of other voting groups - like blue collar union types - that have made up a surprising portion of Trump's support this season.

In 2012, a lot of Evangelicals stayed home because Obama and the MSM successfully painted Romney's Mormonism as "different" and "odd".

rhhardin said...

It plays with women and women vote. That's the problem. Women are stupid.

Instead of men taking into account that women are stupid, maybe women should take it into account for a change.

Like flying on instruments in a cloud of emotion. Go by the instruments, not how it feels.

There's real feminism for you.

Ann Althouse said...

Back when I started this blog in 2004, when I first turned on the comments, I was dogged by commenters who said: Why are you talking about this and not the war in Iraq, which is what's important right now. I let that bother me so much that I turned off the comments and decided I wasn't going to have comments because I wanted to blog about what I felt like talking about and I didn't what to be continually told that what I choose to blog about counts as a statement by me about what I think is most important. I was getting shamed over that, as if I didn't care enough that people were dying.

Later, I put the comments back on. All I'm going to say about this is I have always disliked comments that tell me I shouldn't be blogging about what the post is about but should blog on something else that the commenter is suggesting. I like getting tips on subjects I could blog about and I don't mind getting told I should blog about some subject I haven't gotten to, but I'm always going to be annoyed by comments that say the post I've written shouldn't have been written. Just skip it if you don't like it. I assume that's what most readers do. Saying I shouldn't have written this contains more meaning, and I am making you uncomfortable. Well, good!

Rumpletweezer said...

Did any of the women claim that Trump broke the Steinem Rule?

chickelit said...

What is the biggest headline, in your opinion, coming out of Wikileaks that we have missed?" In other words, what is the single most damaging thing to Hillary?

The biggest headline so far is "Press Ignores WikiLeaks" or "Press Ignores Wiki Leaks, Unwavering In Support of Hillary"

rhhardin said...

My complaint about women in traditional men's jobs is that they don't actually like those jobs. They go about it grimly, where the men just have fun.

You could say they're not happy. That would be useful information.

Instead they wind up on the women's workplace issues committee.

damikesc said...

Funny that he pays his women better as compared to men than Hillary does, ain't it?

Remorse said...

How about "Wikileaks uses Russian hackers to undermine US sovereignty"?

Big Mike said...

Things we should be talking about in this election season:

How could the FBI and Homeland Security have failed to prevent the Boston Marathon bombing and the Orlando nightclub attack despite the explicit warnings about Tsarnaev brothers and Omar Mateen?

If Obamacare is failing in Minnesota, then there is little hope for it anywhere. What parts of the Affordable Care Act are worth preserving and which parts need to be jettisoned in order to put the "affordable" beck in the legislation? How do we get back to the stable environment for private insurance that we enjoyed before Obama, Reid, and Pelosi decided to muck with things?

Are we in Syria for any reason other than Obama's pique at Assad for refusing to step down when Obama demanded it? What are our strategic goals in and around Syria?

What do we plan to do regarding China's turning isolated islands and sandbars into military outposts? Do we have a strategic interest in that area at all?

Can we accept that Obama has utterly botched the healthcare treatment of veterans and discuss what we're going to do to fix it? (I note in passing that application of the phrase "You're fired!" seems to be in order for much of the current top leadership.)

Many knowledgeable economists claim that our true unemployment rate is closer to 12% than to 5.5%. We are looking at an economy that has never, in the last eight years, had an annual growth rate equal to the growth in working age population from the combination of Millennials coming of age plus immigration. Can we see some concrete plans for fixing the economy from either of the candidates?

What we are discussing:

Is Donald Trump a potty-mouth and did he grope all the women who claim that he groped them? (N.B., at least two of the groping claims are demonstrably bogus.)

One last question. Is this the worst political class in history?

damikesc said...

I answer that question with a question; "Would this kind of information have damaged Trump in the primary, the way it is hurting him now?"

"Old news" isn't usually viewed as being super worthwhile to report. But conservatives rarely survive scandals, so they rarely have that option.

chickelit said...

Just to counterbalance my own 9:55 link, here is Hitchens on Trump or at least what he thought of him then.

Big Mike said...

All I'm going to say about this is I have always disliked comments that tell me I shouldn't be blogging about what the post is about but should blog on something else that the commenter is suggesting.

@Althouse, tell 'em to start their own blog. Is there a book or two on Amazon that tells people how to start a blog? You might link to that through your Amazon portal. Just sayin'

Lyle Smith said...

It's amazing and scary how Bill Clinton gets away with rape. The dribbles all add up to zero on him.

chickelit said...

Remorse said...
How about "Wikileaks uses Russian hackers to undermine US sovereignty"?

How do we know it was Russian hackers?

damikesc said...

As far as what the professor posts about, I'll accept the stuff I don't care about (Bob Dylan) because I find her takes on issues I find interesting different and usually insightful.

Larry J said...

"If you can’t handle some of the basic stuff that’s become a problem in the workforce today, then you don’t belong in the workforce."

This is a true statement for both women and men. It seems every week we're seeing new stories about the delicate little snowflakes at college who're getting the vapors over "micro-aggressions*" of one sort or another. The latest I've seen is from the University of Florida offering 24/7 support for students who're upset about someone's Halloween costume. Anyone that delicate (male or female) doesn't belong in any workforce. That person needs psychiatric help to learn how to grow the f**k up and not be such a whinny b**ch (again, male or female). No one should be expected to walk on eggshells to avoid upsetting the perpetually offended. Plus, what about the people you offend?

*By definition, a micro-aggression is one-millionth of an aggression. If something that petty upsets you to the point where you need a safe room, your parents have failed in their basic responsibility of raising an adult.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Presumably Althouse hasn't spent much too time thinking about the plural for "ho."

But, it seems like her recent "noes" jabber should have been instructive.

damikesc said...

How about "Wikileaks uses Russian hackers to undermine US sovereignty"?

Why would US sovereignty by undermined by the hacking of private email servers? There's no indication that the Russians "hacked" government email servers and those are the only ones, legally, that should info that could "undermine" sovereignty.

Mick said...

Of course the media will not report that Podesta, the campaign mgr. of the Crooked Old Lady had a role or knowledge of the HIT on Antonin Scalia.
Who would use the term "wet works"? That is the term Podesta used 3 days before Scalia was found dead. It means "murder" (as in spilling blood-- wet). It cannot mean anything else. He even talks about the Vinyard next to the Texas preserve that Scalia visited.
What are the odds that a SCOTUS Justice dies of mysterious circumstances and then no autopsy is performed. STILL to this day, no one knows exactly what the cause of death was. Now we know he was murdered. Of course the spoiled brat Chelsea talked about "gun control, now that Scalia is gone."

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/wikileaks-uncover-murder-plot-podesta-documents-suggest-scalia-assassination/

Dust Bunny Queen said...

There is a big BIG difference between sexual harassment in the workplace and general normal actions of men being men. Being complimented on your new outfit by one of the guys....gee thanks. Being constantly commented on your figure and other physical attributes....hmmmm. Back off.

Not everything is harassment. Not everything is a triggering event. People are really not that interested or aware of you. Get over it and deal with it like adults. If you, as a woman, don't have the ability to discern between true sexual harassment and normal activities, truly....you do not belong in a workforce environment. Stay home and cocoon

I've spent most of my working life in male oriented workplaces. You have to deal with all sorts of people, all sorts of men. Communication is something that many women could learn to do. TALK to someone if they are making you uncomfortable and explain why it is making you upset. Lots of guys don't know or are totally oblivious, especially the nerdy, analytical types. Other think that they are just being friendly but are overbearing. It isn't just you lady....they are overbearing to everyone. COMMUNICATE instead of expecting men (or anyone else) to be able to read your mind. Use your freaking words!!!

I would far far rather work in a male dominated workplace than with one that is all women. The drama and vagueness at a female workplace is just too much.

buwaya puti said...

The media is a coordinated, centrally directed propaganda machine, a ministry of information of an authoritarian state. I lived most of my life, previous to permanently residing in the US, in authoritarian states. I know what Im looking at.

Thats a difficult switch to make, if you have a different perception of your sources of information. Looking at it realistically, it requires the breaking of all assumptions of trust. There are only lies, from any source, even if they are true, they are meant to manipulate your perspective to some degree away from any objective view of the whole field of truth.

It takes an effort, initiative and some talent to seek unmanipulated information, mainly found in technical information in tangential areas, to get a more accurate sense of perspective.

Achilles said...

" In other words, what is the single most damaging thing to Hillary?"

Donna Brazil's when a reporter at CNN sent debate questions to Clinton

John Harwood, a moderator for one of the debates and reporter at CNBC, bragged about being biased.

John Harwood, one of the people who takes the WSJ/NBC poll, works directly for Hillary Clinton while reporting on the campaign.

Hillary hates Catholics and wants to start a schism.

The unprecedented and disgusting coordination between the Clinton campaign and DOJ during the FBI "investigation" which is proven to be a total sham.


MayBee said...

It's funny to see the "Bill Clinton isn't on the ticket!" crowd attacking the Trump son.

rhhardin said...

I've just sent an email of complaint to Catherine Malabou about her reading of Levinas.

She knows much more than I do as an academic but still...

Ron Winkleheimer said...

How do we know it was Russian hackers?

And even if it is, why should I care?

No matter the source, a great deal of rather interesting info is being revealed.

Sebastian said...

"At some point, speech and the display of pictures in the workplace really can properly be seen as creating unequal conditions for women in the workplace, and people who care about that equality should want to think about where that point is." At what point do women's sensitivities and women's whining and women's legal blackmail and women's fashion choices create unequal conditions for men in the workplace, and why should people who care about equality not think about where that point is?

Michael K said...

I'm most uneasy about the idea that women are being too fussy and therefore should stick with jobs that are already designed to accommodate female sensitivities. That's bad, but I can imagine a decent person who might just blurt that out.

This is just another front in the War on Men. Google, "Repeal the 19th Amendment" and see the huge number of hits.

Lysistrata is the theme for young single women these days. "Cut off those nasty men who won't do what we say."

Then read Helen Smith's book on why men, young men, are rejecting marriage.

Not all, of course, but how much pussy do you think Pajama Boy gets ?

I don't think we have seen the final results in the workplace either.

My work experience is quite limited since I retired but I work a day or two a week. I'm noticing a few things,

BrianE said...

Where is the balance between free expression and offensive speech and should it be one standard for women and another for men?

Birches said...

Re blogging what you feel like. I didn't read yesterday after the first post on Dylan winning the Nobel. I'm glad a lot of people enjoyed yesterday. You go Glen Coco.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

"And even if it is, why should I care?"

Maybe it would cause you to wonder why the Russians want to have DJT installed as the POTUS?

Maybe it's because they like his smile. Maybe it's because they think he sells great steaks.

Anywho, that's all I can think of, it's probably one of those two options.

Chuck said...

No, Achilles; you didn't answer the question. The question isn't, "Summarized the damaging emails;" the question is what is the one "single most damaging thing to Hillary?"

I want to know what is the Scott Adams "kill shot" in all of this? The Hillary kill shot? Because I already know that the Democrats and the media are in bed together, and that they together have contempt for every day working Americans. I know, I know.

Can you answer my question? I think it is a hard question. I wish it weren't so hard.

Original Mike said...

"I like getting tips on subjects I could blog about and I don't mind getting told I should blog about some subject I haven't gotten to,..."

It is striking that you, a law professor!, haven't said a damn thing about the Wikileaks emails.

holdfast said...

When we're negotiating a contract and someone says that we're "down to the short strokes", I tend to cringe if there are women around. It just seems unnecessary, but it's one of a number of business/finance idioms that are based on rather crude humor, and I think that for today at least folks need to be able to tolerate a little gutter humor to get along. To be clear, that's sort of dirty jokes or references said in general - not directed at an actual person present, which would be beyond the pale.

Having pr0n on your computer is another matter - you better own the company if you want to get away with that.

Darrell said...

Computer experts say it wasn't Russian hackers. There was some Russian script used to disable some security features, but it was code that was sold by Russians to a lot of hackers. It's part of their tool kit now. Most of the other script is code not used by Russians. Same with proxy servers.

Birches said...

Megan McArdle induced the vapors yesterday by saying absent aggravating circumstances, men should not get jail time for an unwanted grope.

Chuck said...

btw, Karl Rove nailed it, when he said, "Sex beats finance/influence, and (video/audio) tape beats paper."

In other words, a video of Trump being outrageously lurid is a thousand times more destructive than leaked emails about media corruption and Democrat influence-peddling.

buwaya puti said...

Looking at education, its much less about boys being run out of schools or careers, in those areas that concentrate talent, than of the middle and lower tiers being packed with compliant girls.

The top tiers of anything important are still full of boys. There is only so much that can be done about biology.

Girls do as they are told, or do a better job of appearing to do so.

Girls are more acceptable material for bureaucracies and their purposes.

rehajm said...

Another day of Trump in the CNN Breaking News box. Just a couple more weeks and Hillary's home free!

Original Mike said...

I think the idea that it's the Russians is silly. The Russians are so unsophisticated as to leave their fingerprints all over the hack?

If it is the Russians, they want us to know it was them. What does that do to the idea that this is meant to hurt Hillary?

eric said...

Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
"And even if it is, why should I care?"

Maybe it would cause you to wonder why the Russians want to have DJT installed as the POTUS?


You watch too much television.

The Russians are coming! The Russians!

Achilles said...

Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
"And even if it is, why should I care?"

"Maybe it would cause you to wonder why the Russians want to have DJT installed as the POTUS?"

I remember in 2012 you lefties attacking Mitt Romney because he called the Russians a threat. While Hillary was sec state she took millions from Russia and ok'd the sale of North American uranium in return. We had a Russian reset remember?

Of course not. You don't even bother with critical thinking and just go straight for maximum hypocrisy.

Remorse said...

"The Federal Bureau of Investigation suspects Russian intelligence agencies are behind the recent hacking of the emails of Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman and of a contractor handling Florida voter data, according to people briefed on the investigations.

"Top Russian officials on Wednesday, meanwhile, shifted away from denying a role in a separate hack of the Democratic National Committee. President Vladimir Putin said it is irrelevant who stole the computer records, and the foreign minister said the U.S. hasn’t proven anything so far."

It doesn't surprise me that many Trump supporters feel apathetic or even satisfied that Putin is most likely trying to manipulate the elections in Trump's favor.

eric said...

Blogger Dust Bunny Queen said...

Not everything is harassment. Not everything is a triggering event. People are really not that interested or aware of you.


Oh, I'm aware of you. Very aware. I stare like a schoolboy at that ginormous head of yours. So beautiful in all of its yellow glory. Or those tiny, tyrannosaurous arms. I imagine them holding me late into the night.

Sebastian said...

@dbq: "COMMUNICATE instead of expecting men (or anyone else) to be able to read your mind. Use your freaking words!!!" Why? legal bludgeons and man-shaming work so much better.

Achilles said...

In other words, a video of Trump being outrageously lurid is a thousand times more destructive than leaked emails about media corruption and Democrat influence-peddling."

But videos of Obama being lurid are unimportant because he is a democrat and it would mean democrats are complete fucking hypocrites.

Chuck said...

This is off-topic, but I am watching Obama speaking in Cleveland right now. And it is filthy. I say here and now; Obama is -- personally -- a nastier partisan hack than Hillary Clinton. A tall bar indeed. Hillary, I expect, secretly understands fracking, and national security (when she is not flouting it with a personal email server), and the financial industry.

Barack Obama is a pure partisan spokesmodel; working very hard to blame all Republicans for Trump. And also working very hard to make it an election to vote against all Republicans.

There has never been an election where it is more important to elect down-ballot Republicans. To push back against Obama and to hold Clinton in check.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Ok, I've got another reason.

Maybe Russia is worried about HRC's and BHO's militarism and interventionism, and they'd prefer DJT's less confrontational POV because that looser American involvement would allow Putin to share his love and caring side which he must now hide because the Ds are mean to him.

In other words, Putin knows HRC is a war monger, and he wants a less aggressive POTUS so he can be freed to spread peace and love.

Got it.

Mick said...

Meanwhile the Crooked Old Lady is in hiding while the Usurper and the Transvestite are out campaigning for her rather than doing the work of we the people.
The media breathlessly reports on any "nasty" thing that Trump says, and ignores ALL the criminality being exposed by Wikileaks, that comes straight from the horses mouth. The Usurper is scared to death that Trump will expose the whole sham he has conducted with the help of the Crooked Old Lady, and perhaps expose the fact that he was never eligible to begin with, and has NO ALLEGIANCE to the US.
Wikileaks exposed the fact that pressure was put on Judge Roberts during the Obamacare case (probably threatened to expose that he is a fag and that he illegally adopted his kids).
Obama and his minions even had Scalia killed so that they may be able to push through gun control.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/wikileaks-uncover-murder-plot-podesta-documents-suggest-scalia-assassination/

Rusty said...

BrianE said...
"Where is the balance between free expression and offensive speech and should it be one standard for women and another for men?"

There isn't any and nor should there be, and no.

Chuck said...

Achilles, again you avoided the question. You can't convince me that the media is corrupt and biased against all Republicans, and also Donald Trump. You can't convince me of that, because I already know that, with moral certitude. You just can't engage in any decent argument, can you?

Achilles said...

Blogger Remorse said

"It doesn't surprise me that many Trump supporters feel apathetic or even satisfied that Putin is most likely trying to manipulate the elections in Trump's favor."

1. The FBI has already been clearly shown to be a part of the Clinton campaign.

2. Who wrote the emails is still the same. What they said is still the same.

3. Hillary pushed the reset button and sold uranium to the Russians for donations to her foundation.

Chuck said...

With your Scalia murder conspiracies, Mick, I suspect you're not worth any engagement. But I will be watching for you meltdown when the Trump landslide that you have predicted in a hundred different posts turns into an historic defeat on election night. I am not going to call the suicide prevention hotline for you.

jaydub said...

"You could say they're not happy. That would be useful information.
Instead they wind up on the women's workplace issues committee."

The problem with women in the workplace is the women who are a problem in the workplace - which is not all women, by the way, just those who are convinced that they are not CEO because they have an innie instead of an outie, which is 75% of them. As an EVP of a midlevel company, I spent at least three times the time dealing with the workplace princesses as I did dealing with your standard male prima donnas, and proportionally, there were also three times more princesses than prima donnas. That's primarily why I have such a low regard for feminists - every self-important also-ran who thought she was god's gift to the company was first and foremost a "feminist." They really are their own worst enemy.

Original Mike said...

"This is off-topic, but I am watching Obama speaking in Cleveland right now. And it is filthy. ..."

Iran is sending warships to Yemen. Maybe Obama should be in D.C. doing his fucking job.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Mick is awesome.

Nobody knows more about usurpers.

At one point, long ago, he actually managed to get Althouse to debate his legal POV in a thread.

Cool.

Henry said...

Zero reminded me of Elvis Costello's Less Than Zero, which is about Oswald Mosley. I googled it and learned there are two Less Than Zeros. Costello also wrote a Dallas version for American audiences who misunderstood the Oswald reference. Zeroes.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Who cares? Literally, who cares? We all know the score. My company makes everyone take a sexual harassment training module at least twice a year--I think it may be quarterly now. Everyone in a corporate environment knows where the power is, and it ain't with lecherous old male bosses. One accusation and you're done, everyone knows that. The standards of "evidence" needed to end one's career are pitiful--really an accusation or two is enough to get you fired since corporations are so afraid of lawsuits, everyone knows that. A woman doesn't even need to raise official objections to behavior or actions contemporaneously--she can complain or sue later and say she was too afraid or uncomfortable to say anything at the time (meaning the person she's complaining against may not have known there was a problem or that he was doing anything wrong) and he's still likely to find himself unemployed, everyone knows that. If it's your word against hers and you're a man you'll lose, everyone knows that.

Can we, please, just drop the pretense? Ooh, women are so oppressed in the workplace, they have SOOO little power, whatever will they do? Give me a break. That's now how it works today, and everyone knows it.

Remorse said...

"1. The FBI has already been clearly shown to be a part of the Clinton campaign."

Middle of the road Americans and independent voters are listening to these kinds of slogans - something more like religious beliefs than actual arguments that the alt-righters and Trump supporters are flooding the national dialogue with. They're seeing the whole burn-down-the-house strategy that so many of them embrace now, and they're going to decide to shut almost all the GOP candidates out.

buwaya puti said...

CNN is and has been for most of its existence the epitome of the US Powers-that-be propaganda machine, and thats how its seen abroad. It is the US version of the BBC in foreign eyes, though less informative and trustworthy, though of course many think little of the BBC these days.
CNN is seen as "official".
This is a correct perception.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Especially since Comey is a Republican.

Joe said...

I, for one, am tired of coworkers who get offended at the slightest provocation, real or imagined. I worked at a company which ordered that there be no disagreement--not argument, simple disagreement--at high level planning meetings. I worked at another where my boss was so conflict avoidant that he'd leave the room due anything but the most inconsequential technical disagreement (and sometimes even then.)

During a sexual harassment class at another company, two female coworkers verbally shredded a third for turning every incident, no matter how minor, into sexual harassment or discrimination.

Writ Small said...

I completely agree with this Althouse Trump post. A whole lot of so-called controversies against Trump are ginned-up nothings. Stipulated. But there is plenty that is very concerning. I think a lot of Trumpites focus on the weak critiques and assume all criticism is exaggerated. Given general media bias, that can be forgiven to a certain extent. I think the main thing the Trump tapes did was provide an example that was virtually impossible to rationalize away.

Hagar said...

I am generally with DBQ on this, but women should speak up - not run to to Human Resources, but speak up - against offensive speech in the workplace.

Normal workplaces that is; if you want to get involved with beauty pageants or other low-level entertainment business, you just need to make sure you can take it first.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Yeah, the Left is really big on fighting misogyny and crudeness. How many times has Jay Z visited the White House, again? He's had a few things to say about women over the years, huh? And no one's less crude than the Professor's favorite Lena Dunham, no ma'am.

Why not just admit you've won and drop the sickening bullshit? The Left doesn't give a fuck about crudeness, inappropriate language, or misogyny unless it can be used as a weapon against your political opponents. Sexual harassment and sexual assault aren't big deals when you're voting for rapist Bill Clinton and giving him prime speaking spots at Democrat conventions, but you want to pretend that Trump's words and behavior offend you? What bullshit.
It's unnecessary! You won; you run the Media, you run the Academy, all the good, right-thinking people like Professor Althouse support you--why the pretense? Hillary's going to win big, it's the year of the woman, girl power, hooray! Drop the pretense that any of this is some principled stand.

Mick said...

Chuck said...
"With your Scalia murder conspiracies, Mick, I suspect you're not worth any engagement. But I will be watching for you meltdown when the Trump landslide that you have predicted in a hundred different posts turns into an historic defeat on election night. I am not going to call the suicide prevention hotline for you".


Obviously you support Treason, for the sake of your Democrat "team". The defeat of the political establishment and establishment is coming, and coming big. The Crooked Old Lady is in hiding, letting the media carry her water, because she has no real support, and most sane people hate her, and besides she is very sick (mind and physical). The polls are a lie. For instance, the head of the company that does the poll for NBC (Hart) donated $278K to Clinton's campaign.
Some of the accusers of Trump even work for the Clinton Foundation.
Of course that means nothing to you.

Achilles said...

Blogger Chuck said...
"Achilles, again you avoided the question. You can't convince me that the media is corrupt and biased against all Republicans, and also Donald Trump. You can't convince me of that, because I already know that, with moral certitude. You just can't engage in any decent argument, can you?"

The point is that until we label the media as an enemy of freedom and treat them as such we will get no where. We need to be honest about what we are up against. We need to treat this as a serious fight for survival against a concerted,organized, and deeply committed enemy with no morals because it is.

That means we need to focus on the enemy and on winning. When they attack you you send it right back at them. You don't sit there and discuss the merits of their attack. If they are glaring hypocrites you go right back at them and punch them in the face.

Most importantly you don't let sniveling cowards like Ann Althouse justify a vote for a woman who attacked and slandered rape victims because Donald Trump said pussy. You don't let hypocrites like PB&J have any room to justify their bullshit. They have no moral space to justify a vote for Hillary Clinton and they know they are voting for a disgusting woman. They should feel terrible for supporting Hillary Clinton and succumbing to the media attack because it is easier.

Trump is not my favorite person. But I also am not a perfect person and neither is anyone else. The core issues behind this campaign about who will be in charge of the executive trumps all of this garbage they are pedaling.

Hagar said...

"Take it" to include dish it out - if necessary with a right hook - as well as receive it.

Achilles said...

Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
"Especially since Comey is a Republican."

You are stupid. We get it.

This isn't about republicans and democrats. It never was. The bushes and romneys are clearly in the Clinton camp. This is about the people vs. DC.

Mick said...

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
"Mick is awesome.

Nobody knows more about usurpers.

At one point, long ago, he actually managed to get Althouse to debate his legal POV in a thread.

Cool".

I certainly know more about A2S1C5 than the "Con Law Prof" ("Con" being the operative word. She did correctly cite Federalist 68, but was not brave enough to talk about what it meant (lest she be called a "birther" (gasp)).

"An improper ascendant" means the improper influence of a foreign ancestor. Simple for those that really want to understand. "A child of their (our) own" could not mean the child of a foreigner. Simple for those that want to understand.
Now the Usurper has participated in the hit on Scalia. He is a foreign agent let loose with the reins of the United States, because the Congress of the US have all participated in the treason that allowed him there. Future generations will spit on Hussein Obama, and hopefully he will be buried in his native country not here. The Crooked Old Lady and the media, both desperate to undermine Trump, participated in that Usurpation.

hombre said...

The most transparent thing about Democrats is their commitment to keep the focus on Trump's supposed misdeeds rather than Hillary's corruption and Democrat collusion with the hopelessly biased media.

Beyond that, sequestering emails, lying - including under oath, ducking subpoenas, grifting, registering dead people to vote and the like is who they are.

Wikileaks has provided evidence of a "vast left wing conspiracy" to defeat Trump. I knew all along Hillary was projecting.

Mick said...


"Most importantly you don't let sniveling cowards like Ann Althouse justify a vote for a woman who attacked and slandered rape victims because Donald Trump said pussy. You don't let hypocrites like PB&J have any room to justify their bullshit. They have no moral space to justify a vote for Hillary Clinton and they know they are voting for a disgusting woman. They should feel terrible for supporting Hillary Clinton and succumbing to the media attack because it is easier.

Trump is not my favorite person. But I also am not a perfect person and neither is anyone else. The core issues behind this campaign about who will be in charge of the executive trumps all of this garbage they are pedaling".



THIS^^^^^^^
golf claps.

Todd said...

Writ Small said...

I think the main thing the Trump tapes did was provide an example that was virtually impossible to rationalize away.

10/14/16, 11:03 AM


You are correct and additionally Trump is a crude, loud-mouth, narcissistic blow-hard. He is the ABSOLUTE worst person we could possibly have as President, except for Hillary. She makes the unacceptable preferable. That is where we are today. One will either actively vote for Trump thereby doing SOMETHING to stop her or they will do something else and anything else helps Hillary. That is all there is to it.

chickelit said...

Achilles wrote: This isn't about republicans and democrats. It never was. The bushes and romneys are clearly in the Clinton camp. This is about the people vs. DC.

That's a bingo!

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Chuck said...There has never been an election where it is more important to elect down-ballot Republicans. To push back against Obama and to hold Clinton in check

Why? Let 'em have it. They won, Hillary'll have a pen & a phone and she'll appoint some goooood judges. Let the Dems have the Legislative branch, too. They can run things. They have ideas, Chuck, they know how to get things done. Why fight it now, anyway? Demographics don't lie, Chuck, and this nation doesn't belong to regressive old white men like us any more--we're on the way out, so why make a fuss right now? Why delay the inevitable, just to get shit on as mean, hateful, racist, homophobic assholes for blocking progress for a few years? What do you think the vote counts will be like post-amnesty, anyway?

Naaah, it's theirs. Let 'em have it. Up ballot, down ballot, doesn't matter. Vote for your people at the state level if you like--that might do something for a little while--but understand that Big Momma Federal Government isn't going to look too kindly on wayward states and she's certainly not going to let something like "traditional ideas about federalism & separation of powers" stop her from "helping" people.

Achilles said...

Blogger Remorse said...

"Middle of the road Americans and independent voters are listening to these kinds of slogans - something more like religious beliefs than actual arguments that the alt-righters and Trump supporters are flooding the national dialogue with. They're seeing the whole burn-down-the-house strategy that so many of them embrace now, and they're going to decide to shut almost all the GOP candidates out."

This is so obviously a paid Hillary shill. Nobody says "Middle of the road Americans and independent voters." Probably in the cut and paste folder.

The Hillary campaign doesn't hire the brightest of the bunch.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Maybe it would cause you to wonder why the Russians want to have DJT installed as the POTUS?

Wait a minute, I thought the Russians were our best buddies. Didn't Hillary make them our buds with that big red button present?

My guess is if the Russians want Trump to be president its because they think he is less likely to want to go to war with them. After all, they have seen her email. They know just how crazy she is. Or maybe they think they can play Trump. I don't care.

I suppose I'm supposed to fall in line or hide under my bed when people yell "Russia" but I'm not. Screw it. I don't care. Go try that on an idiot.

Todd said...

Also, I truly believe that all of this is futile. Hillary and the DNC have already stolen this election. Between felons, illegals, multiple voters, absentee ballot fraud, and the voting dead, she has it sewn up.

Chuck said...

Mick, I have only one thought when it comes to you: How can I profit, off of your stupid braggadocio? I have begged you for a private wager on the outcome of the election. You won't do it. You just don't have anything else that is worthwhile for me.

Henry said...

The most transparent thing about Democrats is their commitment to keep the focus on Trump's supposed misdeeds rather than Hillary's corruption and Democrat collusion with the hopelessly biased media.

Trump appears to share that commitment.

Chuck said...

So, Hoodlum...

You are headed toward complete personal despair, it seems to me. With a divided U.S. government in which Hillary Clinton runs the executive branch and Establishment Republicans run Congress. Fighting each other most of the time, making deals on rare occasions. There will be nothing for you in any of that.

Meanwhile, I will be happily rebuilding the Republican Party, looking forward to 2018 and 2020.

I like my side better. Are you going to relocate to the Utah desert, with a five gallon can of gas and a pump shotgun?

Achilles said...


"Chuck said...

"There has never been an election where it is more important to elect down-ballot Republicans. To push back against Obama and to hold Clinton in check"

Seriously fuck the down ballot. If we lose the executive this country is finished. The permanent bureaucracy is all in the executive and it is far more powerful and important than the congress. By design the congress has ceded all of their power to the bureaucracy. Almost every important rule with the force of law comes from the bureaucracy.

This is a ploy by someone who wants all of the power to remain in DC.

damikesc said...

It doesn't surprise me that many Trump supporters feel apathetic or even satisfied that Putin is most likely trying to manipulate the elections in Trump's favor.

Must be the flexibility Obama promised them.

In other words, Putin knows HRC is a war monger, and he wants a less aggressive POTUS so he can be freed to spread peace and love.

Are all conflicts are issues?

Do you want to go to war for Syria? Why? Where is the US interest there? Hillary did a bang up job fucking it all up...why should troops be forced to die for her error when there is nobody in that shithole worth fighting for?

I mean, if you condemn the Iraq War...you cannot be consistent and not vigorously oppose any action in Syria.

Middle of the road Americans and independent voters are listening to these kinds of slogans - something more like religious beliefs than actual arguments that the alt-righters and Trump supporters are flooding the national dialogue with. They're seeing the whole burn-down-the-house strategy that so many of them embrace now, and they're going to decide to shut almost all the GOP candidates out.

I'll bite, remorse.

1) The FBI helped Clinton's people destroy equipment under Congressional subpoena. Why?

2) The FBI offered immunity deals and provided no negative repurcussions when people lied anyway. Why?

3) They immunized Cheryl Mills and let her continue to represent Hillary. Why?

4) The statute in question mentions nothing of intent. Yet Comey made sure to point they could find no intent. Released information also notes that they didn't LOOK for intent, either. Why?

5) Why was Bill allowed on Lynch's plane? You don't really buy the "It was hot out and I didn't want to be rude" excuse, do you?

6) What was discussed? I know Bill says "grandkids", but how much do you trust his word on anything? He has been nailed for perjury.

7) Agents and lawyers said that nobody asked any of them in regards to a charge being brought forward? Nobody buys that NOBODY would issue charges for this since they have done so for dramatically less than this. Why?

Like it or not, if you want be a nation of laws, not of men, then Hillary needs to be punished. She isn't going to be. Which shows that we are a nation of men, not of laws. That is also called a banana republic.

Especially since Comey is a Republican.

So was Earl Warren.

Original Mike said...

"Seriously fuck the down ballot."

Wow.

Achilles said...

"You are headed toward complete personal despair, it seems to me. With a divided U.S. government in which Hillary Clinton runs the executive branch and Establishment Republicans run Congress. Fighting each other most of the time, making deals on rare occasions. There will be nothing for you in any of that."

This is all kabuki where the republicans pretend to stop Hillary or Obama and the bureaucracy passes all of the new rules that control our lives.

The GOPe is merely a tool to trick republican voters into thinking they made a choice. They have done nothing to stop the flood of regulations coming out of the bureaucracy during the obama years and we are getting crushed.

Larry J said...

Achilles said...

"Chuck said...

"There has never been an election where it is more important to elect down-ballot Republicans. To push back against Obama and to hold Clinton in check"

Seriously fuck the down ballot. If we lose the executive this country is finished. The permanent bureaucracy is all in the executive and it is far more powerful and important than the congress.


Don't forget the courts. With Hillary filling the current and future supreme court vacancies as well as other federal judgeships, she'll be able to get anything she wants. Besides, the Republicans have had control of Congress for some time now and have done nothing to stop Obama. Just as any push back on Obama was automatically deemed racist, any opposition to Hillary will be sexist. The Republicans in Congress will cave. It's who they are. It's what they do.

damikesc said...

You are headed toward complete personal despair, it seems to me. With a divided U.S. government in which Hillary Clinton runs the executive branch and Establishment Republicans run Congress. Fighting each other most of the time, making deals on rare occasions. There will be nothing for you in any of that.

The press is thoroughly on her side and will attack any Republicans who will not do what she wants. And they will cave. They always do. If any effort was made by the press to get Merrick approved for the SCOTUS, a few days of stories would've made the GOP cave on that.

Remorse said...

"This is so obviously a paid Hillary shill. Nobody says 'Middle of the road Americans and independent voters.' Probably in the cut and paste folder."

That's one of the key problems with you guys! You're FULL of half-baked conspiracy theories! Hoodlum Doodlum above says some things that are just freaking true, totally understandable, not that difficult to sympathize with. And then the other side creeps out: 'If Hillary wins, America is my enemy!'; the FBI lies about Putin because they're for Hillary'; 'People who go against Hillary end up dead!'

Jesus Christ, for the heirs of a people who built so much of this country, who did the Manhattan Project, the Skunk Works, who designed the infrastructure of America, won two world wars, you guys are failing badly. Your best solution to the crisis facing the United States and your particular class is....Donald Trump? Really? You can't see at this point how much of a fail that is? You can do better than that. Pull yourselves away from the Alex Jones web sites and conspiracy theorists, the proto-fascists and, just for a change, build some bridges with people who really know how to fix things. You're creeping everybody else in the United States out by the company you keep.

Mick said...

Chuck said...
"Mick, I have only one thought when it comes to you: How can I profit, off of your stupid braggadocio? I have begged you for a private wager on the outcome of the election. You won't do it. You just don't have anything else that is worthwhile for me".

I don't "wager" and really don't care what you think. Obviously you are irredeemable and hopelessly anti American. Will you be moving to Canada when Trump wins by Landslide?

Achilles said...

Blogger Original Mike said...
"Seriously fuck the down ballot."

"Wow."

Give me an honest discussion of what you think will happen if Hillary wins the presidency and republicans control the congress.

The executive will run completely unchecked. The bureaucracy will make any rule Hillary wants and it will have the force of law. We might as well not have a republic.

Michael K said...

"if the Russians want Trump to be president its because they think he is less likely to want to go to war with them."

I think this is a factor and might be important. Hillary is going to face trouble because she is perceived as weak, which she is.

Like Obama she will make brave noises and maybe even threaten to do something to someone who pisses her off (everybody basically).

She and Obama are more interested in war with Republicans than with real enemies but mistakes happen. Putin assumes she is weak.

This is how wars start. Plus, of course, the Muslim riots,

Achilles said...

@remorse

You are busted.

You are also not bringing up anything new or interesting. Boring. You have only dealt with these issues in the most superficial manner. Even PB&J has more critical thinking skills than you.

Chuck said...

Mick said...
...
I don't "wager" and really don't care what you think. Obviously you are irredeemable and hopelessly anti American. Will you be moving to Canada when Trump wins by Landslide?


Bookmarked.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I am generally with DBQ on this, but women should speak up - not run to to Human Resources, but speak up - against offensive speech in the workplace

Exactly Hagar. The women who feel that they are being harassed (and usually they aren't being) should calmly speak to the person(s) and explain how they feel. Find out why the behavior. Mostly it is an innocent action that the person is unaware is offensive. (I find myself on that end of the stick quite often. Being the oblivious person that I am, I may need to be reminded)

The media finds it soooo much easier to trot out this fake mysogny stuff than it is to confront the real issues. Mitt Romney, whose picture should be in the dictionary under milquetoast, was supposedly a terrible person with his binders full of women (resumes of women he was considering hiring). Of course the lo-fo voters, women and democrats, eat this shit up.

Instead of dealing with the international failure of our State Department under Hillary, the corruption in the agencies of the government (FBI, DOJ),the failed policies of Obama that Hillary will just double down on, the LITERAL crimes that Hillary has committed WHILE Secretary of State......no lets focus on when Trump was a private citizen and acted like a horn dog or is rumored to have done so.

I don't care about Trump's personal life which seems to be a normal man's personal life.

I care about the Supreme Court. I care about the Constitution and especially the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 10th amendments. Hillary, or whoever will be acting as the shadow President, because she is really just a puppet at this point, probably Huma and the Saudis, will be the death knell of the United States.

Screw the down ballot Republicans too. They had power. We elected their sorry asses several times and the couldn't do anything. WOULDN'T do anything.

Remorse said...

"Even PB&J has more critical thinking skills than you."

When PB&J rebukes me I'll definitely consider his words carefully. But you are one of the ones who ordinary Trump supporters should probably stop listening to. You are failing in your prescription for America, and you have no Plan B other than "Fuck 'em all."

The right can do better.

hombre said...

Blogger Remorse said

"It doesn't surprise me that many Trump supporters feel apathetic or even satisfied that Putin is most likely trying to manipulate the elections in Trump's favor."

It doesn't surprise me that Democrat trolls attack Trump supporters by fabricating data and using straw men. The Russian Foreign Minister denied the hacks and Comey told us the FBI couldn't determine who had hacked Hillary's emails. Neither you nor any other Hillary shills have a clue what Putin is doing. He is an accomplished global player. All you have are Obama, Kerry and Hillary, foreign policy buffoons.

"Middle of the road Americans and independent voters are listening to these kinds of slogans - something more like religious beliefs than actual arguments ..."

By slogans you mean like "racist," "sexist," "homophobes," "black lives matter," "Occupy Wall St.," "vast right wing conspiracy," "burn down the house," etc.

If you want to know what the lefties are doing look at what they accuse others of doing.

buwaya said...

"Even PB&J has more critical thinking skills than you."

He does. He doesn't use them often, or engage with substance, but in the few cases he has, he can.

His problem is not ability but character.

Remorse said...

"It doesn't surprise me that Democrat trolls attack Trump supporters by fabricating data and using straw men."

My quotes came from the Wall Street Journal. I know they're to much to the left for a lot of you but there it is.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/top-russian-officials-shift-away-from-denying-dnc-hack-1476295233

Original Mike said...

"Give me an honest discussion of what you think will happen if Hillary wins the presidency and republicans control the congress."

Less than what happens if she's got the Congress too.

Everybody get's how important the executive is, BTW.

Michael K said...

"The right can do better."

How would you know ?

Remorse said...

"The right can do better."
"How would you know ?"

Because I have faith.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Remorse said...Your best solution to the crisis facing the United States and your particular class is....Donald Trump? Really? You can't see at this point how much of a fail that is? You can do better than that. Pull yourselves away from the Alex Jones web sites and conspiracy theorists, the proto-fascists and, just for a change, build some bridges with people who really know how to fix things. You're creeping everybody else in the United States out by the company you keep

Well, in fairness Remorse, they did nominate someone who specialized in fixing things & building bridges (they being the Republican party). His name was Mitt Romney. He lost and it wasn't all that close. During his campaign Romney was called an extremist, a misogynist, anti-gay, a class warrior against the poor, and so on. It stuck, Romney lost.
It is funny (in a rueful way) to hear the same leftist Media hacks who smeared a decent centrist like Romney now say "if only sensible Republicans would nominate good, morally upright people like Romney!"
Yeah, we did. He lost.

I didn't vote for Trump in the primary, I don't plan to vote for him in the general, and I have expected a Hillary win pretty much since Trump was nominated. The more I think about it, though, the less convinced I am that "any other Republican would be wiping the floor with Hillary."

Achilles said...

Blogger Remorse said...
"The right can do better."
"How would you know ?"

"Because I have faith."

A supporter of Hillary Clinton said this with a straight face.

Anyone who votes for Hillary Clinton is an enemy of freedom and a disgusting human being.

Remorse said...

"Anyone who votes for Hillary Clinton is an enemy of freedom and a disgusting human being."

Listen to you.

Achilles said...

Blogger Original Mike said...
"Give me an honest discussion of what you think will happen if Hillary wins the presidency and republicans control the congress."

"Less than what happens if she's got the Congress too.

Everybody get's how important the executive is, BTW."

That is not an honest discussion. Tell me how the Supreme Court will be different. Tell me how the IRS will be different. Tell me how the EPA will be different. Tell me how the FBI will be different. Tell me how HUD will be different. The congress has zero effect on our lives compared to the bureaucracy.

Anyone who says a single thing about leaving the presidential line empty and voting for the down ballot being ok or acceptable in any way is working to keep power in DC and an enemy of freedom.

Chuck said...

You are so full of shit, Dust Bunny Queen.

As Charles C.W. Cooke points out in National Review, it is a dangerous and noxious myth, that Republicans have done nothing to stop the Obama onslaught.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/435078/republicans-didnt-cave-obama

Without Republican majorities, we'd have a climate change treaty, an end to fracking, an assault weapons ban and federal ammunition limits. We'd have real, true, comprehensive amnesty. There would be union "card check" in federal law. God only knows what the budget and taxes would look like. We'd have Merrick Garland on the Supreme Court already. No wait I take that back; we'd have Goodwin Liu on the Supreme Court.

I am really weary of arguing with Trumpkins. I just hope this election beatdown will shut most of you up or drive you off Althouse.

Remorse said...

"Anyone who says a single thing about leaving the presidential line empty and voting for the down ballot being ok or acceptable in any way is working to keep power in DC and an enemy of freedom."

You sure do like that bullying strategy.

Achilles said...

Blogger Remorse said...
"Anyone who votes for Hillary Clinton is an enemy of freedom and a disgusting human being."

"Listen to you."

Ok.

Hillary Clinton stood on the coffins of dead veterans and lied to their parents about why they died because she was in the middle of a campaign in 2012 because it was politically expedient. That could have been my parents she lied to. Then she threw an American citizen in jail for a year to buttress her lie knowing it was a lie.

I had a TS/SCI clearance in the army. If I did what Hillary did I would be in jail for multiple life sentences. Hillary is only free because she is wealthy and powerful. There are dozens of service members in jail now for far less than what Hillary did.

None of this is debatable and is already admitted to. If you vote for Hillary Clinton you are a disgusting human being.

eric said...

We are done anyway if Hillary gets the presidency.

I don't see how keeping Congress would help.

Original Mike said...

It is an honest discussion, Achilles. Everybody gets the importance of the executive, you insult people to suggest otherwise. But we are where we are because the Republican primary produced a horrible candidate and we need to mitigate what damage we can.

"Anyone who says a single thing about leaving the presidential line empty and voting for the down ballot being ok or acceptable in any way is working to keep power in DC and an enemy of freedom."

I agree. And I feel the same way about someone who does the reverse (votes for Trump and leaves the down ballot empty). Are you in that camp?

EMD said...

"This is about the people vs. DC."

This should've been Trump's campaign message all along. He's touched on it, but vacillated too much with distraction after distraction.

Achilles said...

"Without Republican majorities, we'd have a climate change treaty, an end to fracking, an assault weapons ban and federal ammunition limits. We'd have real, true, comprehensive amnesty. "

We already have card check for all intents and purposes. The EPA is pushing all of the regulations on us the treaty would ask for. The assault weapons ban is not in effect because it would be widely ignored. We have defacto amnesty now because the bureaucracy is selectively enforcing the law.

Republicans in congress have had zero effect on any of the reality we feel out here.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Chuck said...You are headed toward complete personal despair, it seems to me. With a divided U.S. government in which Hillary Clinton runs the executive branch and Establishment Republicans run Congress. Fighting each other most of the time, making deals on rare occasions. There will be nothing for you in any of that.

Meanwhile, I will be happily rebuilding the Republican Party, looking forward to 2018 and 2020.

I like my side better. Are you going to relocate to the Utah desert, with a five gallon can of gas and a pump shotgun?


I'm looking more in the NC mountains area, but I did find out you can get remote satellite internet for about $60/month now! It was closer to $250/month when I checked on it 5 years or so ago.
I didn't say "fuck the down ballot Repubs" like other commenters. I am not rooting against them, but I'm not putting any real energy into supporting them, either. If they lose, they lose. I do view the slide to the Left as pretty much inevitable. I do think that if Repubs hold out in the Legislature it will only delay the decline, at best, and is more likely to result in very modest delays combined with Media/popular opinion blaming the Republicans for the problems that will come up. Think about Obamacare collapsing, pension funds being unable to hide their pending insolvency--things like that. Those things aren't Republicans' fault...but if Repubs hold even one chamber you and I both know that will be the story ("Hardline Republican Intransigence Prevents Pension Bailout - Millions of Seniors Forced to Eat Cat Food" and so on). I do also truly believe that the case for conservatism, especially for my own favored brand of libertarian-leaning conservatism, will not prevail given the current national demographics combined with the amnesty/demographic shift that's all but assured to come now.

With whom are you going to rebuild the Repub. party, Chuck? The establishment Repubs. couldn't prevent Trump so you're either stuck with the weak remnant of them or you'll have to find some way to make common cause with the 40% or so who do support Trump. Most of the conservatives I respect have been consistently against Trump and many of them have been against his supporters, too--who is left? The NeverTrumpers aren't numerous enough to form a party, man. The AlwaysTrumps will lose this election and will have no base of support anywhere. What's left? Sure, there'll be a party named GOP, but who is in it?

My thinking lately is not so much to remove myself from society (ie move to rural Utah) as it is to minimize my interaction with the government & big business as such. It's probably a good idea in any case, but things like not following national politics as much, doing everything I can to minimize the money the Media gets from me, making sure I have independent sources of income (apart from a salary from a large company), those sorts of things.

Big Mike said...

@Achilles, I've held an SCI since '85. You are perfectly correct about people being in jail for far less than what Hillary Clinton admitted to. You are also right about Clinton voters being disgusting human beings. Why shouldn't we despise them? As Peggy Noonan rightly points out they feel the same way about us.

@Chuck, the case for voting for Trump is that he is the opponent with the best chance of defeating Hillary Clinton. He is rude and crude, naive, and apparently possessing poor self-discipline. But he doesn't knowingly violate laws and he has never started a war for no good reason. (Oops! My mistake! According to no less an authority than Barack Obama Libya was merely a "kinetic military action.") Oh, and he's right about our southern border.

And I have no intention of shutting up after the election, regardless of who wins.

Chuck said...

eric said...
We are done anyway if Hillary gets the presidency.


So, what do you do when "we are done"? I keep hearing that from pro-Trumpers. I think a Hillary Clinton presidency will be terrible. It will be a LOT less terrible, if Republicans hold about 250 House seats and about 55 Senate seats. And our task in opposition to Mrs. Clinton will be to block her, investigate her and perhaps impeach her. We won't be "done." What part of that don't you understand? With what part do you disagree?

Chuck said...

Big Mike said...
...
@Chuck, the case for voting for Trump is that he is the opponent with the best chance of defeating Hillary Clinton.


LMFAO. Bookmarked, too.

Achilles said...

"I agree. And I feel the same way about someone who does the reverse (votes for Trump and leaves the down ballot empty). Are you in that camp?"

The ballot is set and yes a full straight line republican vote is what we need to win this battle. 100% agreement.

There are republicans and republicans. We need honest primaries. Sure we need to keep douchebags like Paul Ryan for now but it must be recognized he is part of the problem and he must be removed as speaker immediately.

This is a war that will continue and we must recognize the toadies and betrayers in our midst.

Mom2Es said...

If I were a hostile foreign government attempting to swing the election to Clinton, I'd probably hack a bunch of stuff and leave "accidental" fingerprints to make it look like I really preferred Clinton's opponent. I think Clinton is protesting too much with all the "see? The Russians clearly are more afraid of me!" business.

Big Mike said...

Sure, there'll be a party named GOP, but who is in it?

@Hoodlum, me for one. I've lived in Cook County, Illinois, and I've lived in Maryland, and the GOP was and is worse off in either of those two locations than it will be nationally after November 2016.

Chuck said...

HoodlumDoodlum said...
...
With whom are you going to rebuild the Repub. party, Chuck?

With strong Congressional majorities. With the same broad conservative media that opposed Trump. With a Republican leadership purged of all Trumpers. With big money conservative donors eager to get back to the White House. And with a newly-reconstituted post-Ailes, post-Hanity, post-Bolling, post-O'Reilly Fox News Channel.

Achilles said...

So, what do you do when "we are done?"(sic)

We will start with jury nullification. Once that is organized a widespread tax revolt.

hombre said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chuck said...

Achilles said...
So, what do you do when "we are done?"(sic)

We will start with jury nullification. Once that is organized a widespread tax revolt.


LOL! And plenty of ammo, and MRE's, and training camps in Northern Idaho! Wolverines!

[Not us Wolverines, btw; we have a bye week.]

Big Mike said...

@Chuck, I didn't say his chances are outstanding -- I'm pretty sure you'd shut your pie hole and keep it shut if he was comfortably ahead. But Johnson has no chance and Stein would be even worse than Clinton. Q.E.D., I should vote for Trump.

EMD said...

With a Republican leadership purged of all Trumpers.

You had those guys lose in 2008 and 2012. That same GOPe leadership gave you Obamacare, Chief Justice Roberts, penumbras, potential amnesty, and more!!!!

hombre said...

@Chuck:

"With whom are you going to rebuild the Repub. party, Chuck?

With strong Congressional majorities. With the same broad conservative media that opposed Trump. With a Republican leadership purged of all Trumpers. With big money conservative donors eager to get back to the White House. And with a newly-reconstituted post-Ailes, post-Hanity, post-Bolling, post-O'Reilly Fox News Channel."

Seriously? I'm not a Republican, but this is so arrogant and naive, I can't even think of a comment except, "No wonder Trump...."

hombre said...

Remorse wrote: "My quotes came from the Wall Street Journal. I know they're to much to the left for a lot of you but there it is. http://www.wsj.com/articles/top-russian-officials-shift-away-from-denying-dnc-hack-1476295233"

Let's see, Russian Foreign Minister denied and "top Russian officials shift away from denying..." Do you see a contradiction here? What did I say about Putin being an accomplish global player?

Shall we infer that Russia now wants Clinton to win since they are confirming her strategy (i.e., accuse Russia)?

You dimwitted Democrats assess everything in terms of the next election. You are too childish to deal with Iran and ISIL. Russia continues to eat you up. Uh oh, better call Kerry. Lol.

BrianE said...

"So, what do you do when "we are done"? I keep hearing that from pro-Trumpers. I think a Hillary Clinton presidency will be terrible. It will be a LOT less terrible, if Republicans hold about 250 House seats and about 55 Senate seats. And our task in opposition to Mrs. Clinton will be to block her, investigate her and perhaps impeach her." - Chuck

It's interesting that the republicans most opposed to Trump are the most likely to engage in fantasy or at best wishful thinking.
I think Chuck needs a reality check. Republicans aren't going to have 250 seats in the House, 55 senators and most of all aren't going to impeach her.
So now what's your strategy to containing a leftist president that will continue Obama policies, except for possibly starting a war with Russia?

Chuck said...

Big Mike, even I am voting for Trump! It won't do any good. He's just a complete personal disaster as a candidate and as a campaigner. So you don't need to lecture me about the lesser of two evils.

BrianE said...

BrianE said...
"Where is the balance between free expression and offensive speech and should it be one standard for women and another for men?"

There isn't any and nor should there be, and no.- Rusty

At this point Rusty, I would answer the question:

There is, there shouldn't be, and yes.

buwaya puti said...

No training camps. No need for them.

A thought experiment on the subject of whats next seem to point to a bunch of Andreas Breiviks. That is the natural path of individual radicalization, already common enough out of pure insanity, and a more explicitly political copycat cascade can easily be set in motion. There are also simply dozens of millions of people equipped for it, or who easily could be. Out of those many millions it is a statistical certainty that someone will have this state of mind.
All it takes is one, to be followed probably by many, given the probable state of politics at that point.
After that it will devolve to a sort of tit for tat, increasing in rate as polarization intensifies.

Chuck said...

Read, Brian! I am not predicting that. It is my own wishful thinking. Just like I wrote. But I do predict that Republicans will avoid a complete disaster in this election. Clinton will win, but we will hold the House, and I think we will hold a narrow majority in the Senate.

And the Trumpkins had better be thankful if it isn't any worse. It will be no thanks to Donald J. Trump.

Achilles said...

"LOL! And plenty of ammo, and MRE's, and training camps in Northern Idaho! Wolverines!

[Not us Wolverines, btw; we have a bye week.]"

Cuddle up to that rice bowl while you have it Chuck.

Things that can't go on forever won't.

Jupiter said...

"At some point, speech and the display of pictures in the workplace really can properly be seen as creating unequal conditions for women in the workplace, and people who care about that equality should want to think about where that point is."

Where that point is? Sounds like another rape joke to me!

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Big Mike said...Big Mike said...
Sure, there'll be a party named GOP, but who is in it?

@Hoodlum, me for one. I've lived in Cook County, Illinois, and I've lived in Maryland, and the GOP was and is worse off in either of those two locations than it will be nationally after November 2016.


I understand, Big Mike, but I hope you understand when I say that means the Republican party will have as much influence at the national level as the GOP has in Cook County and in Maryland.

Jupiter said...

Seriously, maybe what we need is separate workplaces for men and women. 'Cause it seems like women can't be around men without being upset about something the men have done, or failed to do, or said, or failed to say, or thought, or might have been thinking, or wore, or didn't wear, or had on the wall, or looked at, or ....

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Yeah, I gotta agree with BrianE on this one, Chuck - I know you said "perhaps impeach her" but realistically there's about a 0.01% chance of that happening. I mean, if the FBI & DOJ will be as brazen as they were recently, under the Obama admin...what do you think they'll do when Hillary Herself is in the big chair? Without any kind of formal investigation or charges there is just no chance of a political impeachment, man; deserved or not. None.

n.n said...

Pro-Choice politics.

Night Owl said...

Hombre said:
"Wikileaks has provided evidence of a "vast left wing conspiracy" to defeat Trump. I knew all along Hillary was projecting. "

Good point.

Wikileaks proves that those of us who have been referring to the media as propagandists and arms of the DNC are not conspiracy theorists. Of course the left just shrugs it off; they're team is winning, so they don't care if cheating is going on. But the next time someone says "what media bias?", it's all there in black and white. The media has been outed and their credibility and objectiveness destroyed. For what it's worth. I agree with the other commenter that aside from confirming our suspicions about the media working with Clinton, and revealing that Dems can be as racist and bigoted in their banter as anyone else, wikileaks has been pretty underwhelming as an attack against Hillary. It's no match for the full frontal media assault being waged against Trump from all sides.

Night Owl said...

There is the possibility that anger resulting from the wikileak revelations may lead to votes for Trump as a protest against the dribblers--to use Althouse's term-- the propagandists, and the sanctimonious bullshitters on the left who promote a pop-culture that degrades women, and enforce a double-standard regarding which politicians, pundits, entertainers, etc, get a pass to mistreat women.

But I don't really think it'll make a difference in the end. The Clinton machine is too powerful, and there are too many dead people willing to vote for Democrats, and too many bags of "missing" ballots marked for Hillary just waiting to be counted. Trump would have to win in a landslide to win at all, and I don't see that happening.

Michael K said...

An interesting sidelight on the Trump "groping" allegation. From a 2007 artucle in the NY Daily News:

"We can watch the whales go by, the pelicans go fishing, the kite surfers. It's an idyllic life...and now Donald Trump comes along and takes that away," said Jessica Leeds, 62, whose million-dollar property was singled out in Trump paperwork as particularly homely.

Is that the same woman who said he groped her in first class?

There is more to the story and it sounds like this woman has a long term grievance against Trump. Now, is it the same woman ? Same age. What are the details on the flight and date ?

Ms. Leeds was 38 at the time and living in Connecticut. She had been seated in coach. But a flight attendant invited her to take an empty seat in first class, she said. That seat was beside Mr. Trump, who did not yet own a fleet of private aircraft, records show.

Date and flight ? What airline ?

Night Owl said...

Here's the major problem with the wiki dumps: It's too much information to go through and absorb. I seem to recall there was some potentially damning stuff about the FBI investigation of Clinton, with maybe Hillary or even Obama being caught in a lie, or something...

It's too much, so people tend to tune it out. It becomes all garbled like background noise. It's just not working. They needed to release simple, clear, direct talking points that people can remember. They are amateurs compared to the leftist propagandists.

Michael said...

Michael K

I rode many millions of miles in first class during the 1980s. Rarely would a person be invited to sit in first class and if someone was it would be a businessman not a random female passenger. Next, she asserts that he raised the armrest to grope her like an "octopus". First class seats then and now do not have arm rests that can be raised. And though Trump may not have owned a plane at that time he most certainly chartered them. I doubt he took a single non-transatlantic flight on a commercial aircraft during the 1980s. Finally this woman is trembling with excitement when she describes this fictional event that she has been storing up to tell lo these decades.

Bad Lieutenant said...

I don't plan to vote for him in the general


What would it take to change your mind, HooDoo?

Night Owl said...

I've been tuning out the latest dribbles about Trump. I just don't care anymore. Our election has boiled down to which alleged molester do we put in the White House. It almost seems like it's a test to see just how debased an election can get before we all collectively yell "ENOUGH!".

As for the October surprise that Trump allegedly groped women, color me unsurprised and unimpressed. If allegations that Trump assaulted women in the past are deemed enough to keep him out of the white house, then the same standard applies to the Clintons. In many ways the Clinton's were worse than Trump because Bill was a public servant -- at times the most powerful public servant-- when he was molesting women, while Trump was just an asshole billionaire playboy.

The DNC elite-- the ones who colluded with the media to foist the Clintons back onto the electorate-- apparently felt the first scandalous merry-go-around, when our president testified to placing a cigar into a young intern's vagina, wasn't cringe inducing enough; they need another spin with the Clintons before they get off. If those Ivy league minds could conclude that it is acceptable for an alleged rapist and his enabler wife to be residing in the White house, then anyone else can rationalize a vote for the alleged molester Trump. What difference does it make?

Big Mike said...

Michael K and Michael are right. I've also read the allegations by Natasha Stoynoff that she was assaulted by Trump while interviewing him with his pregnant wife Melania. It reads false to me, too.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Chuck said...
This is off-topic, but I am watching Obama speaking in Cleveland right now. And it is filthy. I say here and now; Obama is -- personally -- a nastier partisan hack than Hillary Clinton. A tall bar indeed. ...
There has never been an election where it is more important to elect down-ballot Republicans. To push back against Obama and to hold Clinton in check.
10/14/16, 10:49 AM

Meh, you won't even support the GOP candidate for President, how important could anything else be? I asked you if you would not merely vote for Trump but encourage others to do so, you said (I don't pretend to quote verbatim) No way! So you're just not that serious about winning.

It would help to give a Republican president power to achieve, but I doubt your notions of some hard core GOP Congress holding the line against HRC amounting to much.

And I wish I knew how you were going to grow the GOP in following years. Where will those voters come from? Apparently the 40-60m voters who will go for Trump are to be discarded by your way of thinking. How are you going to outbid the Ds for minority votes? Public hangings of white police officers? Drop money out of airplanes over Compton and Bed-Stuy?

Big Mike said...

@Hoodlum, I understand your position.

Big Mike said...

(But note that Republican holds the Maryland governorship. Even Dumbocrats can get p*ss*d off at their party's elite.)

Bad Lieutenant said...

I don't. I have never been more baffled by these people who say WE'RE DOOOOOOMED, Hillary will eat us - THEN say they won't vote for Trump!

Jupiter said...

Chuck said...
"But I do predict that Republicans will avoid a complete disaster in this election. Clinton will win, but we will hold the House, and I think we will hold a narrow majority in the Senate."

Chuck, for as long as couple of centuries, this country has been avoiding lots of complete disasters, and even winning lots of substantial victories. With the result that it is now going down the toilet. An unholy alliance of Communists and plutocrats has effectively staged a coup. The legislature passes laws, and the executive ignores them, and rules by decree. The federal bureaucracy grows ever larger, more powerful, less accountable and more destructive. And the Republicans act as if it is business as usual.

Achilles said...

Blogger Bad Lieutenant said...
"I don't. I have never been more baffled by these people who say WE'RE DOOOOOOMED, Hillary will eat us - THEN say they won't vote for Trump!"

It is not baffling. They are people with no morals or decency pretending to be something they aren't so they can have more influence on a target audience.

Chuck said...

Bad Lieutenant; your problem isn't with me, you miserable asshole. I am going to vote for Trump and he's still going to get schlonged in this election.

I just want it clear that I was never stupid enough to support his candidacy. I knew all along what a monstrously shitty candidate he'd be. If you are as disappointed as I am at the prospect of four more Democrat years in the White House, you should be questioning the mouth-breathers who put Trump where he is now; in the perfect position to take the public beating of a century.

Michael K said...

"THEN say they won't vote for Trump!"

I'm voting for him and have sent him several contributions but I am making plans on what to do if he loses, as I think more likely now.

They involve moving out of California and buying ammo. Aside from that, I'm not talking.

Hillary will probably try to shift to the middle after the election but the left wing she has relied on will revolt. Therefore, I think the NeverTrumper's hopes will be dashed. She will be even more leftwing, her own inclination since Yale, and less competent, if possible, than Obama. Nothing she has ever done has worked, including taking the DC Bar after law school.

The "Cattle Futures" thing was a bribe laundered rather transparently.

I could see us losing a war and could see a breakup of the country along the lines described in Jim Bennett's " American 3.0. although less peacefully than described.

I am going to a red state. California is probably doomed as the bubble is about to pop. It is Illinois with better weather.

Bad Lieutenant said...

"I just want it clear that I was never stupid enough to support his candidacy."

What does that even MEAN?

Why would you vote for someone you don't support? Who would accept that? You have supported them, with your vote. Now go out and support them effectually, with your efforts to GOTV. Or do you prefer to be ineffectual? It's not stupid to support his candidacy, since there is no alternative! I can't even imagine where your head is at.

I can say that the disloyalty you evince deserves to be repaid.

BTW - you think it impossible for some October Surprise sex scandal, or other scandal, to be spun up out of whole cloth against any of the other 16 candidates, in October or at any other time? Or to be real? Remember GWB and the DUI. For that matter, I wonder how your entire life would hold up to examination of the kind you are encouraging.

Michael K said...

"you think it impossible for some October Surprise sex scandal, or other scandal, to be spun up out of whole cloth against any of the other 16 candidates,"

The story of Cruz and his wife is still untold but it would have been.

buwaya said...

"Hillary will probably try to shift to the middle after the election"

She doesn't need to shift to anything. HRC isn't in charge and will never be, as Obama isn't. They are figureheads.
The policy mix will remain the policy mix as we are under at the moment, with such tweaks as they choose to implement via the Supreme Court.

If I were them, and doing their evil bidding, after replacing at least one more Justice (get to a 6:3, which should be OK in a year or two) they should entertain an appeal of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA).

That would neatly render much of the Second Amendment moot. It would remove the whole industry overnight, plus any private commerce in firearms, accessories and ammunition, enforced by a flood of lawsuits and insurance companies.

Original Mike said...

"Why would you vote for someone you don't support? Who would accept that?"

Really? You want a loyalty oath before you'll accept my vote?

Jupiter said...

Chuck said...

"If you are as disappointed as I am at the prospect of four more Democrat years in the White House, you should be questioning the mouth-breathers who put Trump where he is now; in the perfect position to take the public beating of a century."

OK, here goes;

Me: Hey, Mouth-Breathers! You are the majority of Republican voters, and could have chosen any candidate you anted. Why did you saddle the Grand Old Party with a miserable boor and guaranteed loser like Donald Trump?

MBs: Because the Democrats are importing millions of aliens to build a majority with which they will be able to rule our country forever, and none of the Republican candidates are even willing to criticize this policy, let alone do anything to stop it, with the sole exception of Donald Trump.

Me; So, once he loses the election, will you be willing to acquiesce in the theft of your birthright and the destruction of your childrens' future, and go quietly into slavery while Chuck and his friends rely upon your votes to help them "rebuild the Republican Party"?

MBs; Why, sure! Delighted! Jeb! Jeb! Jeb!

(with apologies to Lazlo).

MayBee said...

Wikileaks has Clinton world doing this:

"Mark and Luis – digital created a fake craigslist jobs post for women who want to apply to jobs one of Trump’s organizations. This will be a microsite and we still need to send it to Perkins. Since we will be pitching this, need your approval please."

If they were willing to do that, would they be willing to push other fake Trump sexist stories?

Michael K said...

" they be willing to push other fake Trump sexist stories?"

I assume you are kidding.

I still think the first class story is fake. Maybe not all. After all, he is what he is. No semen stains we are aware of, however.

That's Bill's department.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Bad Lieutenant said...What would it take to change your mind, HooDoo?

I live in GA. I've said it for a while, but if my vote would make a difference for Trump it won't matter--if GA is close then Trump will already have lost big.
I admit that's a cop out, but it's true.

If I thought the GA vote was very close & thought Trump had a chance nationwide I would probably vote for him--well, I'd be voting against Clinton but I'd mark Trump's name on the ballot. That scenario seems very unlikely, though, so I think I'm safe.

HT said...

"and that's why it might be a good idea not to indulge in this kind of banter if you're going to get involved in politics"

But that's at the very heart of Trump's appeal!

HT said...

"Birches said...

Honestly, this all is just piling on now. I believe that most women who were inclined to vote for Trump are still voting for him. The vocal, horrified women were never going to vote for him anyway. All of these stories are just satisfying the media's bloodlust. The Clinton campaign should be careful though, they might be depressing their turn out if they keep spiking the ball like this.
10/14/16, 9:46 AM

But what about the women who are quietly shocked and reconsidering?

This election is bad for EVERYone. It's a result of bad and it IS bad and it may lead to worse. As I've said so many times, the Democrats are next. Atomization.

It may be too early to say this, but I feel like it would have been better to run against Trump had he not had any hint of being a serial abuser. This is just tarnishing everyone and threatening to take the whole boat down.

Trump is Trump because he is wealthy enough to get away with it. Not sure there can be another who speaks as he really feels.

HT said...

Ain't we got fun?

http://gizmodo.com/trump-supporters-claim-first-class-armrests-couldnt-mov-1787749381

Trump Supporters Claim First Class Armrests Couldn't Move in the 1980s

Bad Lieutenant said...

Buwaya,

After that it will devolve to a sort of tit for tat, increasing in rate as polarization intensifies.
10/14/16, 1:09 PM

Also see J0hn R0ss, Un1ntended C0nsequences.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Original Mike said...
"Why would you vote for someone you don't support? Who would accept that?"

Really? You want a loyalty oath before you'll accept my vote?
10/14/16, 4:07 PM

OM, I do not understand you. Perhaps you did not understand me. I mean, that statement seems to me to be on the order of "I was for the war before I was against it." somewhere between confused and pusillanimous. Perhaps instead of "accept" I should have said "believe" or "take seriously." How is your vote not your endorsement? I vote for this guy but I dont care what you do, feel free to vote against, I have no reasons for voting for him that I care to share with you?

How does this compute? I ask in all candor.

buwaya said...

Re John Ross, thanks.

That is much more organized than I anticipate.
The initial acts I think will be by lone-wolf unstable or eccentric individuals.
Much like the mass-shooters that are so familiar, but with more of a purpose, like Breivik.
There are fashions in madness.

Tit for tat will be individuals, again, until organization emerges when the authorities are too busy to be effective against organizations.

The problem with organization is that the state is well equipped to prevent it or make it very risky, if they have the resources to devote to suppressing them.

buwaya said...

"Trump is Trump because he is wealthy enough to get away with it. Not sure there can be another who speaks as he really feels."

These days only a billionaire or a pauper can be free.

Original Mike said...

BL - I take the word "support" to mean "I agree with his policies; I think he would make a good President". I think Trump would be an atrocious President, and I don't even know what half his policies are. What will he replace Obamacare with, for example. Yet, I voted for him. I'm sure I don't have to explain why. But "support" him? Not so much.

Fabi said...

"mouth-breathers" -- keep building that big tent, Chuckie!

Michael K said...

The first class seats thing is now in play. How about a flight number and airline ?

Original Mike said...

"The first class seats thing is now in play. How about a flight number and airline ?"

Really, MK? You think that's a good strategy?

"I didn't do it", followed by the issues. Nothing else has a chance.

Moneyrunner said...

This is how Nazis takes over. Revolting against the Communists. With the enthusiastic cooperating of people who have gotten fucking tired of Ann's version of totalitarians with a smiley face.

Michael K said...

Really, MK? You think that's a good strategy?

"I didn't do it", followed by the issues. Nothing else has a chance.


Oh yes ? Well, Trump now has a witness.

I'm not saying the witness is any more reliable than the accuser but that's what we have,

Michael K said...

I should add that my wife and I flew to Rome on TWA first class about 1983 and I don't remember any first class seat arm rests being movable.

No, I wasn't rich. Those were the days when you could buy first class tickets from frequent flyers.

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