October 3, 2016

If fat-shaming is wrong...

... what about basement-living-shaming and barista-shaming?

110 comments:

buwaya said...

Good point.
On the other hand the hypocrisy is less important than the megaphone.

damikesc said...

And she was talking about men, by and large, and it's always OK to insult them.

Leigh said...

Well, there's "outdoor experienced, fit" privilege, too, and this privilege shames unfit, fat, agoraphobes. This privilege is so exclusive and unfair that a college hiking club felt compelled to cancel their trademark, annual mountain climb because some students may not be comfortable in their bodies or physically fit enough to do the climb. And no, this story is not from the Onion.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440560/claremont-college-outdoor-club-cancels-event-over-concerns-inclusive-speedo-hike

readering said...

Silliest Althouse blog of 2016.

Big Mike said...

I wouldn't shame baristas. I'd shame anybody who paid that much for a cup of coffee.

sojerofgod said...

How about Stupid Shaming? Every one of these stories has a common thread... These people are so F*cking stupid its a wonder they're still alive!

Brando said...

What's shameful about living in a basement? I mean basement living must suck, with the damp and cold and lack of sunlight, but in high rent areas that may be all you can afford. And barrista is honest work.

Fat, though--it's objectively unhealthy and more people need to lose weight.

And is this what this election is about? I shouldn't be surprised it's gotten so silly, but I guess last time it was about Romney giving his employee's wife cancer and Obama not being born here, so I guess that's the direction we're going in.

Can't wait to see what the 2020 election will be about.

MayBee said...

All the shames!!!

buwaya said...

There is no right and wrong, there are only higher and lower settings of the volume knob.

MayBee said...

The problem with the Democrats defending the Hillary Barista comment is this--

Why is it the way it is? Obama has been president for almost 8 years. Hillary is running on his record. So why are so many young adults trapped with little chance of getting a better job and moving out of their parents' basements? Hint: Getting free college does not get them a non-barista type job.

tcrosse said...

Fat-shaming is only wrong when applied to People We Like. It's perfectly OK to fat-shame, say, Chris Christie. Because STFU.

zipity said...



Basic Rule of Thumb: If it's being done by Democrats, it is by definition allowed, acceptable and beyond reproach.

Howard said...

No, only jesus-shaming permitted.

Sebastian said...

Depends. If fat-shaming is used by cons, it's bad; otherwise, good. If basement/barista-shaming is used against progs, it's bad; unless it's used by libs to advance the party's power, which is good.

Brando said...

I think society is guilty of "shame shaming". That is, making us feel shameful about shaming. Shouldn't some things be shamed?

Unknown said...

Come on, seriously? It is only wrong if a republican did it. MLK would be labeled a racist if he were a republican.

rehajm said...

Ends always justifies.

David said...

Basement living shaming--No

Barrista--No

Unless they are conservatives.

Unknown said...

I'm sympathetic to a person who is carrying extra weight, it's hard to lose. But it is that person's responsibility, it's not a disability where the sufferer has no choice--that 75 extra pounds was five at some point. So, a coach, a boss, a friend, whatever isn't doing anything wrong holding a fat person responsible for his (her) condition. I had to maintain my weigh (and general physical fitness) within standards when i was in the service, and I wasn't even Mr Universe. I don't think whining about being "shamed" would have counted for much.

Quayle said...

The new absolute truths:

Good = me and mine go up, and/or you or yours go down, or some unspecified mix of both.

Evil = you or yours go up, and/or me and mine go down, or some unspecified mix of both


The most advanced form the new absolute truths (coming soon to a society near you):

Good = you and yours are robbed of all you have, robbed of every future opportunity, destroyed reputationally, silenced from any speaking, berated emotionally, beaten physical, and if necessary, tortured and killed. And if that isn't enough, burned and you ashes scattered on the heads of anyone who ever said a nice word to you.

Evil = you or yours said something to me which, for any or no reason at all, I didn't happen to like, including your saying or doing any other unspecified greater offense.

rhhardin said...

My Doberman is on a diet. Reduced from 4 cups of kibble to 3. Nibbles between means continue.

William Chadwick said...

A few years ago there seemed to be an odd trend among the pro-statist commentariat--always fond of the Ad Hominem argument to begin with--to mock every libertarian comment by saying he or she was some unemployed loser living in his/her parent's basement. This stereotyping interested me not only because, based on my experience, it has little relation to reality (when did that ever stop "liberals"?), but because for decades "liberals" and "progressives" have depicted themselves as the Enlightened Ones, far above such things as class- and status-consciousness.

MPH said...

Do you have multiple authors on this blog who got their wires crossed?

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2016/10/am-i-only-one-who-likes-hillary-lot.html?m=1

Hari said...

“Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy?

Kerry: "You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."

Clinton : You end up working as a barista and living in your parent's basement.

David Begley said...

Howard Schultz is the CEO of SBUX. He is a big Hillary supporter. She just stabbed him in the back.

Comanche Voter said...

What about deporable shaming? Exclusively engaged in by despicable pantsuit wearers. Bad, bad, bad.

Strick said...

Let me get this straight. The Obama non-recovery left my kid with no alternative to living in my basement and Hillary is shaming my kid for wanting a change?

buwaya said...

Re SBUX - that won't hurt them.
All these guys are fine with it, the Dems can campaign as, somehow, the patrons of the poor and be all class warfare, while being owned and operated by the billionaire class.

William said...

I don't think anyone in the history of the world has been more relentlessly fat shamed than Chris Christie. He takes it with good humor, but it's never ending......Now we're into meta-shaming. We shame the people who make fun of fat people, but there's a hall pass for making fun of Chris Christie. You can continue to make fun of him because he's campaigning for Trump .......You can no longer make fun of Lindsay Graham's mannerisms. He came out against Trump, so he's cool until after the election........Someone should print a definitive list of who we can shame and what we can shame them for. It's hard to keep up.

Writ Small said...

There is a difference between insulting the weight of a specific person and saying that Americans as a whole should lose weight. Same thing with insulting a specific person for working at a Starbucks and saying college grads as a whole are under-employed.

Trump did the first thing and Clinton did the other. That fact will not stop Trump true believers from self-pity theatrics.

Char Char Binks said...

I draw the line at sham-shaming.

rehajm said...

I would've thought fat shaming to be an excellent dovetail to the whole socialized medical insurance thing.

buwaya said...

"Trump did the first thing and Clinton did the other. That fact will not stop Trump true believers from self-pity theatrics.'

The only difference here is in ones opinion as to who is to be master - that's all.

Brando said...

"Come on, seriously? It is only wrong if a republican did it. MLK would be labeled a racist if he were a republican."

MLK was originally a Republican. He stopped being racist when he tacitly endorsed JFK.

n.n said...

It's not fat shaming. It's a [voluntary] contractual obligation, assisted recovery, and functional role models, as opposed to something like Obamacare and the health penalty tax, social justice adventurism, and congruence.

As for the basement dwellers, trickle-up poverty, excessive immigration, regulatory disparity, and dysfunctional lifestyles have consequences.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

First...you can't shame someone for something that they, themselves, DON'T think is shameful. So if she feels shamed about being fat, then that is because she knows that it is something that she should be ashamed of. If you are not ashamed it is hard to BE shamed.

Second. Calling someone out for not fulfilling the duties and restrictions of their JOB, which the title of Miss Universe is...a job, is not shaming. It is the responsibility of the boss to call you to task. Could he have been a bit more gentle about it. Maybe. Or...possibly being harsh about her getting fat was the only way to get through to her.

Why should we care about this in any case?

Henry said...

Good people don't fat shame. They shame the unhealthy foods that seek out the blameless.

We live in a proxy society.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

Or, none of them is wrong, per se.

I am responsible for my own words. You are responsible for your response. I have agency. You have agency.

buwaya said...

"They shame the unhealthy foods that seek out the blameless."

Its those evil, autonomous people-seeking-guidance-system equipped foods.

Much like all those autonomously-driven guns just leaping into peoples hands and messing with their minds, making otherwise blameless people shoot other people, when they would rather not.

PB said...

All Shaming Matters.

buwaya said...

"There's no shame in being a peasant."

No there isn't. Traditionally your peasant was an economic asset, a self-supporting, revenue-producing fellow. Not a lot of revenue, individually, but that's why you needed lots of peasants. And besides which they, on their own, produced replacement peasants and various surplus farm boys for cannon-fodder as needed.

On the other hand, the unemployed or under-employed urban lower class WAS shameful. Even Marx hated them, because they weren't the "workers" but the "lumpenproletariat".

Armed Texan said...

It's OK, because they're the righteous ones correcting the incorrigible deplorables.

(Altruistic punishment is always to be given, never received.)

Fabi said...

If fat shaming is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Big hit in the seventies.

Jedag said...

All this "shaming" talk reminds me of an episode of the Beverly Hillbillies. The local banker wants to get his potentially cringe-inducing neighbors, the Clampetts, out of sight. His assistant proposes a trip to Palm Springs where Elly May Clampett can compete in a beauty pageant. The scheme begins to unravel when her skeptical mountaineer father doesn't go along: ". . . [W]e already know you're the prettiest--why shame all those other girls?" Who knew that half a century later the cultural vanguard would be aligned with Jed Clampett?

Left Bank of the Charles said...

What about shaming-shaming?

buwaya said...

I don't know where the basement-dwelling baristas fit in the Marxist taxonomy - from "18th Brumaire"

"..decayed roués with dubious means of subsistence and of dubious origin, alongside ruined and adventurous offshoots of the bourgeoisie, were vagabonds, discharged soldiers, discharged jailbirds, escaped galley slaves, swindlers, mountebanks, lazzaroni, pickpockets, tricksters, gamblers, maquereaux [pimps], brothel keepers, porters, literati, organ grinders, ragpickers, knife grinders, tinkers, beggars—in short, the whole indefinite, disintegrated mass, thrown hither and thither, which the French call la bohème."

I suspect they do fit in here somewhere. Heck, maybe I fit in here somewhere.

On the other hand, if they have the grace to be morally depraved, non-white or perhaps merely fat, they do have a role in neo-Marxism, as per Fanon and Marcuse.

vicari valdez said...

are people who are ok with fat-shaming also ok with shaming people for smoking cigarettes? why or why not?

wholelottasplainin' said...

Aren't "interventions" for drug use a form of shaming?

I always liked Christopher/Michael Imperioli's reaction to his Sopranos family confronting him about his cocaine addiction: the vile curses, the upraised fingers, the knock-down eye-gouging fights, and especially the [very Italian!] "Fuck you, Mama!"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_peSCECc4I

Beach Brutus said...

When I do it it's shaming; when you do it it's consciousness raising.

A33Master said...

I see Althouse getting desperate, repeating uninteresting and unintelligent ideas.

tim in vermont said...

I see Althouse getting desperate, repeating uninteresting and unintelligent ideas

Proving a negative is a pretty high bar. But I am sure you are so "super smart" that you knew that already.

harrogate said...

"Fat shaming" is just borne of a desire to feel superior and to be unkind. All the "but it's unhealthy to be overweeeeiiiight!" in the world doesn't change that simple fact.


"basement-living-shaming and barista-shaming?" are just more of the same.

buwaya said...

Oh come, they are merely doing what they must for their no doubt pitiful wages. They do what they must in the service of their evil, blood-sucking patrons.

A33Master - consider organizing and agitating against your exploitative employer, who is no doubt underpaying you and your comrades for your exhausting labor and, of course, your estimable wit. Such leeches must be driven from this earth! Raise your proletarian fists and demand your rights as human beings! Arise, ye prisoners of starvation ...

buwaya said...

But its unhealthy to be overweight.
It also harms physical performance and, beyond a certain point, physical attractiveness, which is not a survival characteristic, nor is it good for Darwinian fitness, as it reduces the likelihood of successful or favorable mate selection.

HT said...

And what about sudafed-purchasing attempts-shaming?? CVS, I dislike you intensely, telling me a temp ID is no good, BS, and you know it.

....is someone attempting to shame people for living in basements and parental housing? Should we be? What's the thinking here, I need to get current on this. (I was going to say up to speed, but I need time to shed the shame/feeling that I am a meth-head for wanting to breathe.)

Leigh said...

Althouse's entire blog is nothing but a vehicle calculated to shame people who are intellectually deficient. Ann lures them in with her breezy style and convinces them they are clever. Confident in their abilities, they post unintelligible remarks. When these people -- at times, sizable in number -- realize they have failed to comprehend her writing, or recognize her subtlety, sarcasm, humor, and nuance, they are embarrassed and feel ashamed. Psychologically victimized, they become despondent. What's worse, some subset of her IQ-deficient readers are obviously oblivious to their genetic-lottery loss, and Ann's intelligent fans quickly pounce -- revealing and "otherizing" the hapless fools by pointing their blather out.

Colleges and universities are no longer allowed to draw distinctions between those with varying degrees of intelligence in the admissions process. The SAT has already made the required adjustments. Academia's grade-shaming methodologies are next on the chopping block. There's a reason common phrases -- like, "those with discriminating taste" or "only the most discriminating of buyers" -- cannot safely be spoken these days: the free-speech shaming by the social equalizers holds increasing sway.

It's a wonder this blog, unfettered and untethered, has been allowed to go on for so long.

Jon Ericson said...

Obvious satire. or a cry for help. Your call.

tim in vermont said...

Good = me and mine go up, and/or you or yours go down, or some unspecified mix of both.

Evil = you or yours go up, and/or me and mine go down, or some unspecified mix of both


It has long been regarded as a truism on this blog that "all of the assholes are on the other side."

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Someone pointed out yesterday that CNN, which was all over Trump "fat-shaming" Machado, had done the same thing at the same time. There was a line to the effect that the universe was expanding, and she was expanding right along with it. Cute, right? Not.

Do I think Trump ought to have called Machado "Miss Piggy"? Nope. But CNN is in the exact same "basket of deplorables."

HT said...

“And is this what this election is about? I shouldn't be surprised it's gotten so silly, but I guess last time it was about Romney giving his employee's wife cancer and Obama not being born here, so I guess that's the direction we're going in.”

Yessir. Maybe everyone beyond 30 will always complain about the trivialization of this or that, but regarding my newspaper, the Post, I feel like I can remember when it happened, the day it became all about the clicks: when they started putting the latest buzz from American Idol on their homepage, and heavier, more relevant news was relegated who knows where. I complained, to no avail. They did it because they could.
____________________________
David said...

Basement living shaming--No

Barrista--No

Unless they are conservatives.
10/3/16, 2:25 PM

Are there conservative barristas?

__________________________

Unknown said...

I'm sympathetic to a person who is carrying extra weight, it's hard to lose. But it is that person's responsibility, it's not a disability where the sufferer has no choice--that 75 extra pounds was five at some point. So, a coach, a boss, a friend, whatever isn't doing anything wrong holding a fat person responsible for his (her) condition. I had to maintain my weigh (and general physical fitness) within standards when i was in the service, and I wasn't even Mr Universe. I don't think whining about being "shamed" would have counted for much.
10/3/16, 2:26 PM

The thing about fat is, it’s easier to not gain more than it is to lose what you have. As Taubes points out, fat is not metabolically inert.

___________________________

vicari valdez said...

are people who are ok with fat-shaming also ok with shaming people for smoking cigarettes? why or why not?
10/3/16, 3:57 PM

The two are very different, in terms of approach. Doctors may nontactfully talk to patients about their weight, but there is no excuse needed to bring up the need to quit smoking. The key is to find out that psychological sweet spot, very challenging with 7.5 minute appointments. What, call this 800 number for support?

Jon Ericson said...

A new voting bloc! 64 oz Slurpees for all!

Jon Ericson said...

Which side of the "Leigh equation" do you fall on?

Jon Ericson said...

Somebody go first.

n.n said...

The New York Times received tax records without consent of an authorized agent in Mailbox-gate. JournoLists selectively shame people for the good of the Party.

n.n said...

Clinton displaced responsibility for the Libya-ISIS Affair to an American citizen. She and the JournoLists shamed him, attacked him, imprisoned him for their social justice adventurism and progressive wars.

Mark said...

Shaming?

Hillary and the rest of the left don't know the meaning of the word.

n.n said...

The [white] [Hispanic] American was attacked by civil rights leaders and JournoLists for defending his life. Obama, JournoLists, and the civil rights industry shamed him and others in his diversity class, and individuals with tenuous and non-existent associations.

The transgender/homosexual activists blamed Mormons for the votes of Democrats, Catholics, Hispanics, blacks, etc. They came to Utah in order to shame Mormons for the independent acts of Democrats and unrelated individuals.

walter said...

Is she really shaming with those comments? She seems to think their circumstances and idealism explain that Berning feeling.
She can spot the symptoms but makes for a bad doctor.
More leeches.just need more leeches...

Jon Ericson said...

And exercise.

Jon Ericson said...

A boot camp might be the solution for certain "irredeemables"

Jon Ericson said...

Just remember to smile all the time.

Jon Ericson said...

Its not a lie if you beleive it.

rhhardin said...

This just in from the W1AW code practice announcements: aurora may be visible from Tasmania and southern Victoria.

YoungHegelian said...

Am I the only person who read the title of this post "If fat shaming is wrong' & starting singing ...I don't wanna be right

Jon Ericson said...

No, absolutely not.
Fabi @334 trumped us all.
Heh.

YoungHegelian said...

Dammit! Sorry Fabi, I missed your comment above when I scanned through.

At least I wasn't the only one with that strange association.

Jon Ericson said...

Hey, It's only a blog.
And I'm sure dozens of us thought the exact same thing!

Rhythm and Balls said...

Deep thoughts, there.

Yes, we all know: Where does it end.

So enough of this never-ending tit-for-tat. Who's worse, etc., etc. They're both bad.

The question goes beyond either of them, and beyond what they can/will do. Or can't/won't do.

It's about who's getting left out of the American dream and which candidates would be most effective standing against each of them, getting around them, and meeting those real, relevant objectives.

Jon Ericson said...

Thanks! from all us deep thinkers. Have another bowl!

Rhythm and Balls said...

Why should we care about this in any case?

'Cause Hillary has nothing else to run on. So she thinks we owe it to her to allow these new, updated distractions of the day to boost her over the finish line.

Jon Ericson said...

Skreek Engrish!

gadfly said...

Until I looked it up, I had no idea what a barista was, having never spent any time in a coffee shop driking over-sweet or over-bitter coffee drinks. And I prefer Mickey D's prices and flavor to Starbucks for black coffee - not even a contest.

But why would working for bucks as a barista at Starbuckeroos be shameful? The politically correct world has passed me by! Is this something akin to not 'liking" someone on Facebook?

Fabi said...

Great minds, YH.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Gadfly, since you are a neverTrumper I don't know if you're worth the time, but if you're genuine about your Starbucks incredulity I will attempt to explain it to you. If you're just posturing, well played.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

I see what you did there, Althouse

Mike said...

Shame makes a fat man tip things over
Shame him in line and make him follow
Shame puts you there where thoughts are hollow (Shame)
Shame, don't use your brain, we'll light the flame
That burns your need to act all insane (Shame)

Shame, (Shame) what you like is in the limo
Shame, (Shame) what you get is no tomorrow
Shame, (Shame) what you need you have to borrow (Shame)
Shame, (Shame) it's mine, it's mine, it's just his line
To bind your time, it drives you to crime (Shame)

Jon Ericson said...

Is it any wonder?

Annie said...

There's a video from 20 years ago. CNN fat shamed the fat Miss Universe. Trump came to her defense. And he's the bad guy.

Jon Ericson said...

Link, pretty please?

wildswan said...

To me this is all a fad like stuffing as many people as possible in a telephone booth. Similarly, "shaming". Who can we shame for "shaming"? Someone says she was called Miss Piggy. Oh, shame. Someone else is called a "basement dwelling barista". Not shame. You see, there are hidden shamer rules.

I believe one rule is you have to say or imply at least - "I'm hurt, so hurt and sad." Then you can work toward a Shamergate Hall of Fame award. If you say: "Consider the source" or "I'd be insulted if you liked me", then no shame no matter what was said. That's why it seems like a fad; there's no real objective standard. Only in the old days fads were fun.

"Old? Old days?" "Ignore her, my aunt is always bringing up the old days."
"Oh, Oh, I'm so hurt, so sad - age shaming, age shaming"

Jon Ericson said...

Vote for Trump and make sure the kid in the basement does too.

Jon Ericson said...

Go ahead, shame me.

walter said...

gadfly said...why would working for bucks as a barista at Starbuckeroos be shameful?
--
It's not, depending..
But I bet it's painful if you've buried yourself in debt with an unmarketable degree..or a degree that is not marketable in thus red hot recovery.

But good grief..try a made for you Americano at bucks and see if that $1 McSwill truly measures up taste-wise. but then, you might be one of those guys who swears off micro-brews based on some sort of social stance.

Robert said...

I looked at the Hillary Clinton comments in context and I didn't feel she was attacking people. It seemed she was speaking with empathy for people who have suffered in the recession caused by George W. Bush. Althouse claims to be neutral but she was being a tool for propaganda on this one.

rhhardin said...

Yohoo email puts the yohoo email warning of the 2014 break-in into the spam folder.

tim in vermont said...

It seemed she was speaking with empathy for people who have suffered in the recession caused by George W. Bush.

LOL! How many years of the past quarter century have been Democrats and how many Republicans? But the blame for the trajectory of the economy always stops on the Republican. George W. Bush's policies were kind of similar to Bill Clinton's in a lot of ways, except Clinton signed into law the repeal of key banking regulations, as a lame duck, because Bush wasn't going to sign it. People like Barack Obama, who personally led the occupation of a branch of Bank of America, for instance, to force them to give loans to people who honestly could not repay them had more to do with the collapse.

Not to mention that the collapse is measured from the unrealistic heights of an economy that had been pumped up by the massive spending subsidized by the greed of bankers and the power lust of politicians like Barney "Let's roll the dice a little longer" Frank.

And you know what? Telling an aspiring beauty queen, who had signed a contract to maintain a suitable weight, that she should lose weight is also compassionate in its way. It would be completely different had Trump made such a comment publicly about some woman who worked for him in some other capacity. Your view of Trump is just as jaded and you are just as much a part of Hillary's propaganda machine.

tim in vermont said...

And I prefer Mickey D's prices and flavor to Starbucks for black coffee - not even a contest.

Well Gadfly and I finally agree on something, "it's not even a contest." But how he can drink that foul, overheated brew that McDonald's serves is beyond me. For years I used to go into McDonald's in the morning and buy a breakfast sandwich, then get my coffee someplace else. Even on those days when McDonald's was giving it away for free.

But why he is all in for Hillary is beyond me.

tim in vermont said...

Jeff Bezos's Amazon thinks I am all in for Hillary "based on my browsing history," BTW, and even suggests a pro-Hillary T-Shirt with the image I use as an avatar.

For the record, when ARM managed to create the association of a drooling idiot with an image of Aristotle, I figured I can attach some of the genuine stink of the Clinton machine with the hagiographic image of Hillary their campaign is putting out.

Chuck said...


If fat-shaming is wrong...
... what about basement-living-shaming and barista-shaming?


I guess it all goes back to Master Persuasion. Due to the mysteries of human emotions, the difference between "basement-living-shaming and barista-shaming," and fat-shaming is that fat-shaming is colossally stupid. It's the one that will stick in the craw of the mainstream media and women voters.

tim in vermont said...

Hey Chuck! I see you are still all-in for the career politician! I hope you are happy when she gets elected, at least someone will be!

Brando said...

"LOL! How many years of the past quarter century have been Democrats and how many Republicans? But the blame for the trajectory of the economy always stops on the Republican. George W. Bush's policies were kind of similar to Bill Clinton's in a lot of ways, except Clinton signed into law the repeal of key banking regulations, as a lame duck, because Bush wasn't going to sign it. People like Barack Obama, who personally led the occupation of a branch of Bank of America, for instance, to force them to give loans to people who honestly could not repay them had more to do with the collapse."

Or more fundamentally--what did Bush do that caused the recession? I get that politically he gets blamed for it because it happened at the end of his watch, and voters simply make that association. But how did he actually cause it?

Dems generally point to two things Bush did--tax cuts (which frankly weren't all that massive by historical standards) and the wasteful Iraq War. So arguably this caused deficits to rise. But how does that translate into people overvaluing real estate and making risky decisions on lending and borrowing based on it?

And if you think "well Bush at least should have stopped that" then what exactly could he have done? Even if he had the political pull to tighten lending standards, this doesn't stop the underlying issue--overvaluing real estate--which made the prices go up and the demand for credit go up so much in the first place.

The Dems are going to keep using this trope, and with success for at least a while, but it's complete crap. Regarding the recession and housing crash, Bush just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Chuck said...

tim in vermont said...
Hey Chuck! I see you are still all-in for the career politician! I hope you are happy when she gets elected, at least someone will be!


Is there some mass-psychology syndrome that is applicable to this phenomenon? One after another, commenters going out of their way to accuse me of supporting the Democrat after I have repeatedly gone out of my way, to declaim any such support?

If it were true -- it assuredly isn't -- that I was a Hillary supporter, would my criticism of Trump (an historically rotten candidate) be somehow less valid?

I think this is a central feature of today's warring political factions. The far right thinks that the left is utterly useless and non-credible. The far left thinks that the right is insane, delusional and of course non-credible. There are no longer any studied arguments. No foundation, and no boundaries, for debate. No right and no wrong.

You see, the big reason that I can't abide Trump is that I can't defend him. I am forced to concede too much. Of course, the same should be said of Mrs. Clinton. I think she should be under a federal indictment by now. I don't know how the Democrats can defend her, either. Strike that; I know how they do it. By being essentially dishonest. As they always have been. That's a status for which I have no aspiration.

Brando said...

Forget it Chuck, it's Chinatown. Or as Trump would pronounce it, "JINatown."

Rip on Hillary, and people accuse you of backing Trump. Rip on Trump, they'll accuse you of backing Hillary. Many simply cannot grasp that a person can be revulsed by both, even though a lot of them are the same people who imposed this hilariously awful choice on the country.

One of them will win, and the criticism about them will ring true. Who wants to say "I kept silent because their opponent was just so terrible that I didn't want to make it seem like I preferred them"?

damikesc said...

And if you think "well Bush at least should have stopped that" then what exactly could he have done? Even if he had the political pull to tighten lending standards, this doesn't stop the underlying issue--overvaluing real estate--which made the prices go up and the demand for credit go up so much in the first place.

He sounded warnings on the issue years before it collapsed. The Dems weren't interested in hearing it as they ran Congress at the time.

Kirk Parker said...

Brando,

"One of them will win, and the criticism about them will ring true. Who wants to say "I kept silent because their opponent was just so terrible that I didn't want to make it seem like I preferred them"?"

That's the dumbest thing I've read so far today. Yes, yes, in a choice between a greater evil and a lesser evil, I definitely DO want the lesser to win. It's Chuck's exclusive focus on trashing Trump that has led to the criticism.

tim in vermont said...

Is there some mass-psychology syndrome that is applicable to this phenomenon? One after another, commenters going out of their way to accuse me of supporting the Democrat after I have repeatedly gone out of my way, to declaim any such support? - Chuck

Yeah, well the Clinton's victim bashers "declaim" any direction from the Clintons too. Your biggest fan here is the Clinton troll "Unknown." Do you ever wonder about that? Why does she think you support her candidate for some reason.

I think you believe that your rice bowl as a "Washington Generals" Republican will be safe under Hillary as it won't be under Trump. Well guess what? Your rice bowl is likely gone. Your wing of the Republican Party has killed it trying to hang on to their precious little sinecures. It's over. Good riddance!

tim in vermont said...

BTW, does it bother you that the IRS is now so corrupted, never mind the hundreds of returns they sent to the White House last election, but now so corrupted that they leak tax returns? You want more of that? Of course you do Chuck! If you don't want more of that, you have an awful funny way of showing it!

Daniel Jackson said...

What about "apartment shaming" as in "your place is dump; you don't do the dishes or sweep the floor, and there are dust devils in your computer room the size of tornados in Iowa."

I get this a lot.

I am SO ashamed.