... in a clumsy rush to attack the political candidate you want to defeat. It's too late to expect either side to step back from this disgusting level of discourse. It would be grandiose — though not in a mentally ill way — to think I could persuade many people to cut it out.
And I understand the instinctive resistance — not that I think it's mentally ill — to unilateral disarmament. If Hillary people are going to say Trump is mentally ill, Trump and his supporters are going to think that Trump would be a sucker to restrict himself to earnestly endeavoring to prove he's mentally healthy.
How can he prove he's perfectly sane? He'd have to tone down his personal style and avoid everything that could be called bragging or self-promotion. His opponents would benefit from that. And, even if he tried, he'd never be able to squelch every single thing that could be seized upon and portrayed as evidence of mental illness. Confirmation bias kicks in. Once the theory is known, any damned thing that seems to support it gets noticed and flogged.
So now we have the Trump side promoting the theory that Hillary Clinton is mentally deranged. Every time she misspeaks or mugs or jerks her head around, that's material for videos like this...
... which comes from the Trump campaign itself. And there are less slick viral things like this...
... and this....
If you think that's all in good fun or that we really do need to protect ourselves from the psychos among us, consider whether you would use the Trump/Hillary-is-mentally-ill meme in the presence of someone who you knew has personally struggled with mental illness.
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69 comments:
I have personally struggled with mental illness. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the videos are hilarious.
You may be right, I may be crazy.
I wonder if Billy Joel ever sings that song in front of a crowd, given the possibility that someone in the crowd might have suffered from mental illness.
I have a mental illness. I refuse to be stigmatized or play the victim. That is why such things don't bother me.
"Robot melting down" is going to be in the DSM-VII.
Hilary is either not very bright, supremely evil, or batshit crazy.
I think it would be a source of inspiration for them - anyone who suffers from mental illness can become president of the most powerful nation in the world.
Ann pick up your game.
After the Clinton side fires the first shots, they demand that Trump unilaterally disarm, lest he be considered "mean"?
I suspect that he won't (unlike McCain & Romney)...
Clinton is Pro-Choice. I wouldn't, but the Psychos consider it a stable orientation.
The candidates put themselves out there knowing their every tic, misstep, fashion faux pas, etc. etc would be exposed and examined. Especially so for a Republican candidate. Candidates knew vulnerable family members would be exposed in the same way.
Yet Hillary! and Trump willingly jumped into the arena.
If I were Hillary with all her baggage, her lothario husband, her very young impressionable grandchildren, her sagging visage and expanding midsection, I would be hiding somewhere far far from the spotlight. But Hillary with her history of prevarication, her declining health —those videos look like she is having Jacksonian seizures post concussion brain damage—inserts herself onto the national stage.
Seems like crazy behavior to me.
Trump has a lot of flaws, many more than McCain or Romney. But one flaw he doesn't have is the delusion that there is something he can do, other than lose the election, which will cause him to have positive press coverage.
Trump may say a lot of crazy things, but he is acting sane in a way that no Republican before him has done. He will never waste time trying to curry favor with the press. It may not be enough to win the election, but it is one thing he is doing right.
"tim in vermont said...
Hilary is either not very bright, supremely evil, or batshit crazy."
You forgot:
D) All of the above.
Papoon for President!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Insane_or_Anything_You_Want_To
At this point, I'd probably be good with a guaranteed annual year.
If you think that's all in good fun or that we really do need to protect ourselves from the psychos among us
You want to have a serious discussion about mental illness and you use language like this? What's next, calling developmentally disabled adults "retards"?
You forgot:
D) All of the above.
I left that as an exercise for the reader. But I lean towards a little delusional in a stereotypically feminine way, mixed with "not very bright." It adds up to evil, of course, but that is more the result than her intention, I think.
If you think that's all in good fun or that we really do need to protect ourselves from the psychos among us, consider whether you would use the Trump/Hillary-is-mentally-ill meme in the presence of someone who you knew has personally struggled with mental illness.
This is a perennial campaign for the tone-police. "Stop using crazy/retarded/etc as insults. It stigmatizes the the mentally ill and the mentally retarded."
There's no evidence that it does any such thing, or makes people more callous to real sufferers, but tone-police campaigns aren't big on evidence. Nobody cares, nobody but the hypersensitive and partisan hypocrites.
@Althouse, for the record, your fellow social liberals have been engaging in unwarranted personal attacks on conservatives for decades now, and it only starts to bother you when a Republican fights back effectively. If you can point to old posts where you deplored such attacks by social liberals on Republican candidates, I'll be glad to go read them, but I'm not going to waste a bright Sunday morning looking for what I'm pretty sure isn't there.
For the record, by law Trump can not tell independent creators of video content not to make anti-Hillary videos because that would be coordinating. As a law professor you might hVe known that.
For the record, I really do believe that Hillary Clinton has mental issues.
Just don't say that shit to me when I'm off my meds.
I am Laslo.
I rate this two out of four Uglies®.
Here's a beautiful article by Krit McClean, the gorgeous model who went "mad" in Times Square. http://nypost.com/2016/08/06/a-manic-episode-led-me-to-strip-naked-in-times-square/
Is it degrading to have presidential candidates compared to you? In 2016, definitely.
Anyway, I don't want a person who suffers from mental illness to be in charge of our military and nuclear arsenal.
Hillary hates dogs!
http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/08/military-k9-handler-describes-hillarys-profanity-infused-tirade-about-his-dog/
As A. Einstein, B. Franklin and M. Twain probably never said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over again, but expecting different results."
I guess that applies to Billary running for president again.
So now we have the Trump side promoting the theory that Hillary Clinton is mentally deranged.
The first video, from the Trump campaign, is doing no such thing, although the third video is.
The first video is just poking fun at Hillary in the usual Trump style. No problem there; in fact, the GOP should get a lot of mileage from that raising-taxes-on-the-middle-class statement--not only for the statement, but the response of the crowd, including Warren Buffett.
The third video is over-the-top. Hillary does appear to have some health issues (as does Bill), and sometimes acts like an old lady, which she is.
What if they are both nuts?
It seems easier to believe that Hillary is than Donald. It's easier to believe Trump is stupid. Despite working almost exclusively on getting rich his whole life, he has a very lame lifetime return on assets. Hillary, on the other hand, lies so big, so often, so openly, and often without purpose to the point that it seems pathological.
Hmmm..only feel compelled to watch the actual campaign vid..since the interwebs is full of everything you can imagine...like idot produced videos portraying Walker as Hitler.
So what?
"Short circuit" doesn't have a mental illness connotation. It refers to being a bot or acting like one..with the occasional misfire due to not having any "soul" to draw on, just programming/prompt(er)ing.
It's this kind of ham fisted inetrpretation that makes (most of) Trump's pushback on PC so refreshing. Remember that phrase "learn to exhale".
I was at a charitable event recently that chose to play the Rocky theme while a crowd of mostly overweight, elderly folk very, very slowly walked in tribute to others with health issues. I'm sorry..with that iconic theme conjuring up imagery of Balboa running to the peak of massive stairs to punch the air in celebration, the imagery at this event was just a bit hard to take. I commented later to someone with an otherwise sharp sense of humor about that and got quite the earful about "fat shaming" and her personal struggle with weight. I get that people have weight issues. It was more about the "over the top theme" in combination.
I think maybe SHE has a mental illness.
With Hil, there's long been a robot theme around. Trump's campaign really showed remarkable restraint in that ad.
Based on my personal experiences (With a family member who was "Mentally Ill") and professional (As a Licensed Social Worker) I have been aware of those who:
1. Elected to be "Mentally Ill" as it allowed them to avoid adult duties; Or,
2. To attempt a defense against prison/jail confinement after committing criminal acts against others.
At this point I don't care in the slightest how offensive or over-the-top the expression is: we need to form a mental model of why Hillary! lies every time she opens her mouth. I mean, in terms of her fitness to be President, it doesn't matter (she's disqualified nine ways to Sunday). But it matters in terms of whether I can feel sympathetic toward her. Is she mentally ill? She has my sympathy. Is she one of the most mendacious, cynical, dishonest candidates ever to run for the presidency? Run her out of town on a rail, or, as Dr. Reynolds likes to say, tar and feathers.
So if you don't make fun of it, but you want to make the case that someone is unfit due to mental illness, what is the proper way? Do you make a serious case? That, to me, would be even more hurtful to people who may be mentally ill. There is no way around hurting other people if you are going to make a case for someone being unfit for reasons that are not unique to them. Can I say the candidate is stupid? Is being a congenital liar a protected class yet?
Are you really arguing that we should not discuss the sanity of presidential candidates because some people are crazy?
Would you teach law to someone who had a family member in prison?
We need a crusade against the tone police.
The policing is worse than the annoyance.
The FU, guns-blazing, anti-Hill stuff is the best part of the Trump campaign. Offers some entertainment value, at least tries to attack the opposition, and ridicules the pseudo-PC let's-not-be-mean-to-the-mad tone police.
Freder Frederson said... [hush][hide comment]
If you think that's all in good fun or that we really do need to protect ourselves from the psychos among us
You want to have a serious discussion about mental illness and you use language like this? What's next, calling developmentally disabled adults "retards"?
"A rose by any other name..."
Personally, I am both shocked and dismayed by the obvious absence of blonde jokes..
.
In the 70s, the joke was about a comedian who was berated for telling Pole jokes, Indian jokes, and so forth, so resorted to moron jokes, and now, he said, morons are writing in to complain.
It can't really be done that way, so you have to have their keepers write in to complain.
I gave a talk about artificial intelligence in the early 90s entitled "Can Insensitivity Be Automated?"
Liked the Trump ad. Raising taxes on the middle class so that the poor and the rich can benefit more from government spending is not going to do well for Crooked Hillary. And the short circuit part was cute. But one of the hidden benefits of this ad may be to make her even more paranoid in public because pretty much ch everything she does in public from here out is going to be recorded by her enemies for just this sort of comic gold. It is turnabout, but she is the opposite of spontaneous already, and this sort of thing is likely key to make her even less so, which probably means even more robotic.
The funny thing to me is how quickly the left stands up for some group, like the mentally challenged here, when their candidate is compared to such. This is like white liberals and SJWs talking about white privilege, or males about male privilege. They are taking it upon themselves to talk for someone else, presumably because they see themselves as morally just and overflowing with compassion. Except, inevitably, it is to shut up their opponents. Until and unless you see what they are doing, it works for a bit. But then reality ultimately intrudes, and the emperor is seen to have no clothes on, and the liberal posturing just starts to look opportunistic, and we see such things as an exploding inner city crime rate and assasignated cops in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement. Yet by now, the entire left has seemingly jumped on the bandwagon so that they can virtue signal.
I don't think that she is mentally ill. I think she's a criminal. She needs to be shown for who she really is, which would cause the majority of voters to turn away from her in revulsion. Electing Hillary Clinton as president would be like electing the Joker as mayor of Gotham City.
Americans have gone far in the past--some would say too far--in demanding detailed health records especially in the case of candidates for the Presidency. Tsongas lied about how long he had been in remission, he died during what might have been his first term, there is the old Woodrow Wilson episode, etc.
Hillary suffered a concussion in December 2012, and postponed the Benghazi hearings for three years. I don't believe there has been a full report on what happened. Did she experience severe symptoms during the first six months or so? Were cognitive tests done, and have they been continued periodically to see how she is doing? Experts have suggested that at age 25 this would probably have been a minor event, at 45 not very serious, but at 65 potentially very serious.
If the country does get into a Woodrow Wilson situation, Bill C may think he will take over and serve an unconstitutional third term. He has undergone major cardiac events, including surgeries, and again it would be reasonable, especially at his age, to suspect the possibility of cognitive impairment. Symptoms of this kind were reported in 2008, after one surgery.
For Trump, on the other hand, I believe there has never been an event or diagnosis that would suggest the likelihood of such impairment. His alleged lack of control in his speech has generally served him very well, especially in winning the Republican nomination.
So: we should avoid stereotyping to suggest that mentally ill people cannot hold elective office; but the Presidency is typically held to a high standard, including a standard of good health.
bagoh20 said...
What if they are both nuts?
It seems easier to believe that Hillary is than Donald. It's easier to believe Trump is stupid. Despite working almost exclusively on getting rich his whole life, he has a very lame lifetime return on assets.
To match the S&P 500 over four or five decades, if that's the 'accusation', is not a bad job. You try it sometime.
Hillary, on the other hand, lies so big, so often, so openly, and often without purpose to the point that it seems pathological.
8/7/16, 10:21 AM
I don't think mental illness should be conflated with organic or traumatic brain damage. The seizure in front of the lady reporters is IMHO symptomatic of a condition absolutely disqualifying for the Presidency and her abettors should be castigated. You could invoke the 25th on Inauguration Day with that clip alone.
Maybe it doesn't meet the definition of mentally ill but her compulsive lying shows that Hillary is clearly at a few removes from reality. I've personally known a few people that behaved in exactly the same way. You certainly wouldn't trust them with your wallet, your car, or your cache of nuclear weapons.
Hillary's incessant lying (even when not needed) would appear to be indicative of sociopathology. Is that sufficient to disqualify her on psychiatric grounds? Apparently a rather large number of voters don't hold her criminality and treason as grounds for disqualification for office. Would being shown to be a sociopath disqualify her to those voters? I suspect the people who support her would not find that her being an amoral, criminal, traitor and not all that smart paranoid champagne fascist would disqualify her from the job. We may survive a president Hillary but can we survive with an electorate that can vote for such a person knowing full well what she is?
@Cracker - I personally don't worry nearly as much about her pathological lying, as much as her selling of official favors. I don't really worry as much about her using those nuclear weapons, as much as I worry about her selling them. The Russians and the Chinese have been modernizing and improving their nuclear arsenals, while Obama seems committed to destroying ours. We need to be moving in the opposite direction. The problem with Crooked Hillary is that she has shown herself willing to sell most anything that she can, given enough money ending up in her family's pockets, and has already, essentially, sold off ownership of roughly 1/5 of our uranium reserves to the Russians. I don't worry that she will weaken America for ideological reasons, as Obama repeatedly has, but rather that she do it for monetary reasons.
Paul Snively@10:35am/
Not "or." Tar and feathers AND run her out of town on a rail.
FIFY
Althouse, a Trump lovin' lady via the Gospel of Scott Adams, is a bit late in complaining about the discourse in this election.
Your man started it. And whether or not Trump has a psychiatric condition identified in the DSM-5, the guy is kinda effed up.
Althouse joins the forces of political correctness. Thanks for telling me what I can and can't say, lady.
The Hillary people are the one putting out the videos using CGI to cover the few real seizure videos that have been appearing. The Democrats and their lapdog Media have done their best to hide Hillary's medical problems. Hillary says she "short-circuited" to try and cover her lies, but also to partly cover her butt if the truth ever comes out.
As I will continue to keep posting: Lunacy is becoming the new norm.
Consider: Hillary was "extremely careless" with the emails, but not grossly negligent." The Benghazi attack was prompted by a video. Hillary and Bill went from dead broke to a net worth of $100 million plus due to their scintillating speeches and Hillary's salary a public official. Despite the "lies" Iran is telling about it, Obama gave them $400 million in cash to settle a 40-year old debt, not as ransom. But we should trust the "lying" Iranians when they say they will slow their quest for nukes. A porous southern border and immigrating military age male "refugees" from terrorist infiltrated countries is good foreign policy. An average -3% GDP growth rate and a $20 trillion debt are consistent with economic recovery.
These are things asserted by Democrat leaders and largely accepted as true by Democrats and some others. Believing this bilge goes beyond ignorance and pushes well into delusional territory.
I don't know if Hillary is mentally ill. Is amorality a mental illness?
@Big Mike said...
For the record, I really do believe that Hillary Clinton has mental issues.
As for Trump we are left to speculate about the danger of his narcissism and anger (as the Democrats did in 1964 when spreading fear about Barry Goldwater by altering the Arizona Senator's campaign slogan from "In your Heart, You Know He's Right" to "In your guts, you know he's nuts" and after LBJ issued the infamous Daisy Nuclear Countdown ad, the anti-Goldwater slogan became "In your heart, you know he might.")
P.J. O'Rourke, speaking of Donald Trump, remarked in all seriousness: ""This man just can't be president," O'Rourke said, alluding to the nuclear codes the commander-in-chief takes control of upon assuming office. "They've got this button — this briefcase. He's going to find it."
I'm mentally ill.
No, I've never been diagnosed. I only have a lengthy personal history including more than one consecutive day of what's politely called "suicidal ideation." My birth mother suffered from depression. I had a birth brother who was a "successful" suicide. As the saying goes, it runs in the family.
As for offense to the mentally ill, what can I say? I'm competent to judge for myself what I find offensive. Among the things I find most offensive is other people expressing their offense on my behalf—almost always when 1) they do not themselves suffer from what I suffer from, 2) they don't know me from Adam.
Why would anyone start from the presumption that either nominee enjoys good mental health?
The status quo is safe: We have a pathologically narcissistic sociopath as our current president, and his replacement is guaranteed to be the same.
How do we mention that Hillary is mentally unstable in a serious way?
Other than how it's being done already.
This seems like a lawyerly way of saying, shut up.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/after-a-brain-injury-i-suddenly-displayed-some-behavior-similar-to-donald-trumps/2016/08/05/c8bbbc12-5b55-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html?wpisrc=nl_opinions&wpmm=1
Link to interesting Kathleen Parker WaPo column dated friday sort of on this topic based on personal experience and research for a book.
If people were not anti-Jew, they would simply refer to Seinfeld and the "Am I crazy, or..." guy followed by Kramer going over-the-top in not allowing consideration of potentially useful starting caveats by emphasizing "You are NOT! CRAZY!"
This is why people shouldn't be racist bigots, it allows for hopeful understanding and a viewpoint from/of "all the angles" as somebody in Miller's Crossing might have said given enough tape.
If they woulda filmed that in digital today I bet they would have clips of bunches of people saying it, okay. You feel me here? You know what I am saying, dog?
https://www.reddit.com/r/seinfeld/comments/1skk93/am_i_crazy_or_is_that_a_lot_of_gum/
This isn't what I recall: only the best I can do.
https://youtu.be/0eJzPEh3ZTk
The O.O. train and Sharon and her strings of success disentangle: ergo die.
Not the Trump Train.
The epistemically closed, forcing reality into channels-Hitchens-hated, unnecessary labels simplifying nuance into lazy comfort, but at random intervals so as to give wisdom's timeliness a run for the money as they say, have a strong argument per The Fatal Conceit (an author writes a work brilliant so much so as to inflict upon the readers a sense of knowledge about humans in general, as distinct from Hayek or Mises or Friedman or Tom Coburn readers) which is easily countered as all the above listed have shown.
Except O.O. and his train derailed, then, by God, railed again, so on and so on.
Scott Adams says if Hillary is on some kind of (concussion) medication, with a long list of side effects, such as 'may cause suicidal thoughts', that that maybe something the voters are entitled to know, before pulling the lever or screen touching, whatever the case may be.
Hillary! trying to act like a politician is like me putting on a dress and make-up and trying to act like a lady.
hombre said...I don't know if Hillary is mentally ill. Is amorality a mental illness?
--
At this point, what difference does it make?
;)
@Lem:
Scott Adams should google "concussion medication". All he will see is ibuprofen and acetaminophen.
When I still watched TV, I watched the Clinton's interview with Steve Kroft where she said in response to a question "I'm not like some little ol' Tammy Wynette baking cookies." All these "sophisticated" women were raving about that answer. Me: I thought she was stupid. First, she takes a swipe at Tammy Wynette who, to my knowledge, had never said anything about Hillary Clinton nor was she running for office. Tammy Wynette's sin was that she sang songs people were willing to pay money to hear. Anyway, what's wrong with a woman baking cookies and bringing a little happiness into peoples lives. Later on, as Hillary pulled more and more of these bonehead stunts in public, I just wrote her off as a drunk. When I heard about Ambassador Stevens and the guys defending him, I thought, Oh, she must have gotten pie eyed again. I thought she was getting sloshed while Stevens was set afire alive and otherwise tortured. But, W.C. Fields was right about being drunk. He did get drunk and he was sober the next day (although not for long.) Hillary is crazy and she will be crazy for the rest of her life. But where we went wrong was back in the 1990's. Lots of allegedly intelligent people talked about nonsense like the end of history. History only ends when there are no people left to screw it up.
How the hell does Scott Adams know anything about what medications Clinton is on?
For me, the two most disconcerting symptom of Hillary's mental condition is her laughing at entirely inappropriate occasions and for far too long and the video of her freezing during a rally. In the latter, at one point, her face went completely blank. Worse, it was obvious that she has a handler who knows what is happening and is using known therapeutic techniques to help her.
I don't like Hillary, but she's a person, mother and grandmother and I believe her enablers are killing her. It's grotesque.
cubanbob said...
We may survive a president Hillary but can we survive with an electorate that can vote for such a person knowing full well what she is?
8/7/16, 1:40 PM
I've been wondering the same thing. This administration has lied time and again, and been caught in their lies time and again, and their performance and its effect on America has been disastrous, yet Obama was re-elected. The mid-term elections pillaging democrats gave me hope, yet the tepid acceptance of democrat party and Clinton family crimes has me very concerned for the future of this nation. The emergence of Bernie Bro and democrat party thuggery, the partisan abuse of government power, the democrat party's subversion of the Democratic Process, and the Hitlerfication of such a well-known and popular individual as Donald Trump is reminiscent of Soviet and Nazi politics. It could happen here, and it is.
gadfly said...
@Lem:
Scott Adams should google "concussion medication". All he will see is ibuprofen and acetaminophen.
Oops.
First result, Mayo:
"Post-concussion syndrome"
Amitriptyline
propranolol
Topiramate
Gabapentin
...
To combat anxiety or depression, antidepressants or anti-anxiety medications may be prescribed.
If you have a history of suicidal depression (or even just idle suicidal ideation) then I don't want you flying an airliner. Even if you've been successfully treated.
There are some jobs that medical disabilities (including a history of mental instability) should disqualify you for.
Even if it's not "nice" to say so, it is not unreasonable for American citizens to want a president whose mental health is robust. Because, we don't want a president who may become incapacitated due to mental issues at a crucial time and we sure don't want a president who is not firmly grounded in reality.
Of course, it's all too true that claims that one candidate or the other is mentally unfit are almost always bunk, and deserving of quick dismissal. BUT it's also true that we need not be so polite as to put ourselves at risk by insisting that a history of mental stability should not be a requirement for some positions.
If you live in New York City you could avoid subways (if you can afford car service) but surely it would be far more difficult to avoid elevators?
The Heckler's Veto is illegitimate, whether used by candidates for the presidency or a crazy homeless bum objecting to my characterizing them as such.
Stop trying to inhibit my laughter at the current presidential candidates, it is all that is keeping ME sane.
I made the last video, along with many other pro-Trump and anti-Crooked videos. I never use sanitized terminology such as "mentally ill." I prefer to keep things real. Thus in the copies of that last video I use words such as "nuts," "bonkers," "mad," and "diabolically disoriented." I like to keep things real; really real.
Crooked must be stopped. If it takes stooping low to stop her, so be it. I do admit that I have lots of fun making such videos. Am I evil?
I will be 70 on my next birthday. I am not a senior. I am old. I'm good with that.
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