June 19, 2016

"We're not going to be... rebroadcasting his pledges of allegiance. We're trying not to revictimize those who went through that horror."

Loretta Lynch, speaking this morning on ABC's "This Week," where the moderator, John Karl, is very much helping her keep the focus on gun control and off ISIS and Islamic extremism.

Why is the government not going to be rebroadcasting Mateen's pledges of allegiance to ISIS?
 
pollcode.com free polls

ADDED: Lynch also appeared on "Meet the Press," where she said that the government will be releasing partial transcripts of Mateen's negotiations with law enforcement. Asked what's being left out — why only partial transcripts? — Lynch said: "What we're not going to do is further proclaim this individual's allegiance to terrorist groups and further his propaganda."

AND: When questioned about gun control, Lynch spoke of adhering to "due process and the current workings of law." The current workings of the law... what a phrase! What does it mean? I, a law professor, think it means: We'll meet the standards the courts impose, but we're part of the process of defining those standards, and if we can get a bill through Congress, we expect the courts to interpret the Due Process and the Second Amendment in a suitably responsive manner. 

165 comments:

surfed said...

"Hey Mateen where you going with that gun in your hand..."

jr565 said...

Because its gun control 24/7. Finding out that he dedicated his loyalty to ISIS is just crazy talk.

Virgil Hilts said...

It makes sense if you realize that that when she says "revictimize those who went through that horror" she is referring to the Obama administration and the Clinton campaign.

Chuck said...

Why is "Both" such an unpopular choice?

I voted "Both." Not because I have any Democratic sympathies; and not because I have any soft views on terrorism. Rather, it is because I can see people like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld saying, "We don't want to give this terrorist, and whatever twisted and terror-provoking cause he may have attached to, any more publicity." And that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld would all vote "Both" in this poll.

In fact, one of the twisted things about the Charleston AME church shooting was the exhaustive, breathless hyping of the kid's online photos with a rebel flag, etc.

Tank said...

On my way to the golf course yesterday, I listened to 75 minutes of NPR radio, all of which consisted of different segments about the Orlando Islamic Terrorist Murderer.

In no segment did anyone say any of the following words: Islam. Muslim. Radical. Terrorist. Immigration. ISIS.

Not one time.

Are we living in the most dishonest times ever, or has it always been like this?

EDH said...

Wouldn't releasing that tape be a state or local freedom of information issue?

Wouldn't the media typically sue to obtain release?

Laslo Spatula said...

LonelyWebcamGirl15:

I'm scared, people. I'm now getting horrible hate messages from Muslims about my WebCam shows.

"You are what is wrong with America and why it must die."

"Infidel woman, you will get yours, Allah willing."

"Burka or Death by Stones, American Slut. It is you to choose."

"American girl, I will rape you in your rape-hole with my immigrant Syrian Cock."

And then there are some in that weird scribbly writing: I don't even want to know what those ones say.

I mean, if it offends them so much why do they even watch? I'm just a girl in her upstairs bedroom, expressing my innermost thoughts and showing my breasts: I don't think I should die because of that.

I don't feel like taking my top off, but if I don't show my breasts it will mean the Terrorists have won.

Meanwhile, did anyone read the poem I wrote? Anyone?

Anyone?

I am Laslo.

Michael said...

Chuck

You explain what you don't get. Stunning.

traditionalguy said...

All we need to do is outlaw terror killings. Why did no one think of it before?

damikesc said...

Lunatic Muslim, with long history of violence and threats, kills many.

Obviously, Americans need to lose theor rights.

Laslo Spatula said...

It is Pravda all the way down.

I am Laslo.

Fritz said...

damikesc said...
Lunatic Muslim, with long history of violence and threats, kills many.

Obviously, Americans need to lose theor rights.


A little more work and you could make a haiku out of that.

mockturtle said...

Dana Bash's interview of Lynch on CNN was more focused and it seemed clear to me that Bash was frustrated with the AG's repetitive evasions of the questions.

Achilles said...

This election is the last chance to peacefully take control of the country back from the oligarchs who currently dominate both parties.

Chris N said...

People are binding themselves within activist logic, at the highest levels of government and many media outlets, for all to see.

It's taken much longer, and quite a few deaths, to have it become so plainly obvious.

Cath said...

Because his pledge specifically called out Obama's drone strikes as one of his primary motivations.

damikesc said...

Last year, the Confederate flag shot a bunch of folks.

Since then, Islam hasnt killed anybody.

"Why do I need to say 'radical Islam'"

Because the intenational attempt to deny reality is upsetting. Instead of blaming Islam, we have to blame freedom and due process.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Traditionalguy:

That's simply not going to have any effect. None of these events have been terror killings, so they wouldn't have been illegal. They were just lone wolf attacks by people of unknown background with no discernible motives except maybe homophobia. Oh and workplace violence.

Not a single one was a terror killing. I know because my government told me so.

Texas Annie said...

From Insty:

The point of the pivot to gun control is to distract from the undeniable truth that Obama’s failed Middle East policies, and failed counterterror attacks at home, have cause scores of Americans to be killed by Islamic terrorists. And the news media is happily complicit in this, because it promotes their political goals.

MayBee said...

They don't mind revictimizing them when they want to talk about how he attacked the gay community or was able to buy a gun. Obama didn't mind revictimizing them when he went to Orlando and talked about how Republicans won't change gun laws to save things like this from happening again.

So no, they only want to direct the channels into which the victimization can go.

MayBee said...

Remember when Obama's face and name was supposed to make them love us? Or at least like us? Or at least not hate us?

Talk about a failure!

Unknown said...

Home Should Not Be a War Zone
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/opinion/home-should-not-be-a-war-zone.html

By Gen. Stanley McChrystal. A former commander of U.S. and international forces in Afghanistan and of the Joint Special Operations Command

“... this past weekend, at least 121 people across the country were fatally shot. The tragedy in Orlando wasn’t even the only mass shooting; in Roswell, N.M., a man was charged on Sunday with shooting his wife and their four children to death on Saturday. The oldest was 14; the youngest was 3.

In 2014, 33,599 Americans died from a gunshot wound. From 2001 to 2010, 119,246 Americans were murdered with guns, 18 times all American combat deaths in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.”


An insensitive survey showing a remarkable lack of facts.

damikesc said...

How many of those were suicide?

How many of the remaining shootings were self defense?

damikesc said...

And a lot more Amerricans died in te US than in Afghanistan?

No shit.

A few more Americans here than were ever in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Can he explain why more died in Chicago, which strict gun control, than in either theater?

Anglelyne said...

damikesc:

Last year, the Confederate flag shot a bunch of folks.

Since then, Islam hasnt killed anybody.


Nicely done.

Anglelyne said...

Michael:

Chuck

You explain what you don't get. Stunning.


That post was chuck-tastic! The chuckiest chuck post yet.

Laslo Spatula said...

LonelyWebcamGirl15:

I realize not all Muslims are bad. In fact, a Muslim viewer sent me this nice message:

"LonelyWebcamGirl15, not all Muslims are bad."

But then he went on about the things he'd stick in my ass if we were ever to meet. Then there was some more of that weird scribbly writing -- I don't even want to know what he was saying there: I know it isn't good...

I mean, I have enough problems with the regular American Sickos, without some Middle Eastern guy saying he'd like to put a bottle of Pepsi up my butt. I don't even drink Pepsi, the sugary drinks make you fat.

Still, there are good people out there: several of my viewers have volunteered to come be my bodyguard if I were to tell them where I live. I hope it doesn't come to that: I don't know how I would explain it to my parents.

Oh -- yeah: do you want to see me in my new underwear?

I can do this: I am an American Girl.

Meanwhile, did anyone read the poem I wrote? Anyone?

Anyone?


I am Laslo.

tim maguire said...

How does Lynch's explanation even make sense? It will revictimize the victims to talk about Islamic radicalism, but it will not revictimize victims to Talk about gun control?

Is she saying the NRA, gun possession, even gun violence are actually irrelevant? It's ok to blame them not because they are guilty, but because they are innocent?

Michael The Magnificent said...

The combination of Obama wanting to flood the country with 100,000 "Syrian" refugees per year, to the near blackout of Islamic Jihad, and immediate swing into gun control leads me to believe this is just Fast And Furious II.

MayBee said...

Unknown-
The homocide rate is different than being killed with guns
Homocide data by weapon

In 2014, 248 people were killed by rifles. Rifles would include “assault weapons”. Thus, more people are killed by knives than by assault weapons. Indeed, more than twice as many people are killed by “hands, fists, feet, etc.” than by assault weapons. (Some of these numbers could change slightly with “Firearms, type not stated” although most of these are probably handguns).

I am fine with a push for sensible gun control. Let's hear what the ideas are, because none of them ever ever ever address what the people pushing them are upset about at the moment.

coupe said...

There is no depth a Democrat will not stoop to, to serve socialism and the national debt.

As you know, since we left the gold standard, the increasing debt allows us to print more money.

Immigrants from third-world countries increase the debt the fastest. Even if they don't have a visa or passport.

You can vote now in America, without being a citizen. This is why you don't want to have a vote to disarm the country.

tim maguire said...

Thanks for the excerpt, unknown. I agree that McChrystal engages in some grade A cherry picking there. I also agree that someone who thinks in terms of war zones is likely to have a poor perspective on safety and rational decision-making in a home environment.

CWJ said...

We don't want to revictimize them by bringing up ISIS, which is not the real cause of the attack.

We want to talk about the real cause which is gun availability. Talking about the real problem 24/7 in no way revictimizes anybody.

Hey...wait a minute.

Also, what Maybee said @10:06.

MayBee said...

Last year, the Confederate flag shot a bunch of folks.

Since then, Islam hasn't killed anybody.


We are always always always supposed to learn the following lessons:

The Charleston shooting was evidence of how much racism there is in this country.
The Pulse shooting is evidence of how much homophobia there is in this country.
Calling it radical islam is evidence of Islamaphobia, and we must guard against backlash.

n.n said...

The abortionist/murderer was Muslim and transgender/homosexual. The anti-native factions are uncertain how to spin the narrative.

2014 murder statistics

11961 abortions/homicides
8124 abortions committed with firearms

CWJ said...

And tim Maguire.

HT said...

I'm listening to CSPAN radio and Donald Trump. Does he seriously think that neither Obama nor H. Clinton understand that radical islam is a problem? In what world is he living? I'm mystified by his focus on radical Islam, when he would probably have a lot more support for doing something about the people who are already here who are proponents of radical Islam. Honestly I think people are way more concerned about that than they are in need of convincing that radical Islam exists. I'm pretty sure we all know at this juncture that it exists. Um, September 11 anyone? Speaking of, he says that all terrorists' records of immigration should be released "since" September 11. I would amend that to INCLUDE September 11 (and before).

MayBee said...

When it's terrorism, Obama tells us it kills fewer people in our country than cars. It isn't existential. Where is that speech now?

Michael K said...

"Home Should Not Be a War Zone"

I assume McChrystal is planning on running for office as a Democrat, like the admiral in Pennsylvania.

I watched MTP this morning and Chuck Todd tried, not very hard but he did try, to get Lynch to say she would consider a Special Prosecutor if the FBI comes back with a recommendation on Hillary. She would not say she would and kept evading with "nonpolitical" BS.

coupe said...

More people are dying from no affordable health care, than queers in a bar.

Ever since Obama destroyed this countries fragile health insurance system, he left millions of Americans to join the rest of the third world slums.

Doctors are leaving, because they are not getting paid by the few insurance companies left.

Michael K said...

"I think people are way more concerned about that than they are in need of convincing that radical Islam exists."

Not Democrats. Only 10% called Terrorism a serious concern. Less than that care about Islam as a threat.

"Radical Islam" is an effort to reach out to them. The real threat is Islam itself.

Curious George said...

Loretta Lynch: "As you note, he was in a gay nightclub. This was an act of terror, and an act of hate, targeting against a community; the LGBT community, the latino community, and of course the LGBT community is so far too often the victim of these types of crime"

Seriously? Is there any indication he targeted these communities, especially the combination of them? I going to kill me some gay latinos! I mean you could just as easily said he targeted the left handed and right handed community. And really, the LGBT community is too often the target of large scale terror attacks? Can you name one other? This women is a disgrace.

n.n said...

The mass abortion committed by a transgender/homosexual Muslim calls into question disarming Americans (first they literally disarmed the babies), anti-native policies (e.g. refugee crises, illegal immigration), denigrating individual dignity with [class] diversity policies (e.g. racism, sexism, Affirmative Action), and debasing human life through selective-child policy and clinical cannibalism (e.g. Planned Parenthood).

Michael K said...

"Doctors are leaving, because they are not getting paid by the few insurance companies left."

They are leaving Britain but here they are trapped. The ones I talk to are on salary to vertically integrated hospital chains which include big medical groups.

I'm starting to see the equivalent of "the Gig Economy" in medicine appear. I know several young docs who have several jobs, one with an Urgent Care, another with the VA and another with some other organization.

The days of opening an office and waiting for patients is pretty much gone except for those going to cash practice and that requires no big student loan payments.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

If ISIS is the enemy, why would we rebroadcast their proganda?

Terry said...

Lynch, like her predecessor and her boss, divides the world into two classes of people: the American people, and victims of the American people.

Anglelyne said...

Tank: On my way to the golf course yesterday, I listened to 75 minutes of NPR radio...

Why, Tank, why? Why do you torture yourself like this?

...all of which consisted of different segments about the Orlando Islamic Terrorist Murderer.

In no segment did anyone say any of the following words: Islam. Muslim. Radical. Terrorist. Immigration. ISIS.

Not one time.


At least it got them off the tranny-palooza/Syrian "migrant" binge they were on. At least, that's what my husband tells me. (Like you, he tortures himself with NPR on his morning commute. God, the merciful, the all-compassionate, broke my car radio speakers, so I am spared the temptation.)

Are we living in the most dishonest times ever, or has it always been like this?

Oh, there have been times as low and dishonest as this one, just not in my lifetime. Right now there is a disturbing, and growing, undertone of hysteria in the MSM, that goes way beyond standard press bias and dishonesty. To describe them as "losing their shit" wouldn't be hyperbolic.

chickelit said...

There must be serious money behind the Administration's "Muslims First" policy. It can't be ideology-driven.

Message: We CAIR

MayBee said...

Left Bank of the Charles said...
If ISIS is the enemy, why would we rebroadcast their proganda?


1. Information is not propaganda
2. If you don't want to rebroadcast their propaganda, that's no reason to rebroadcast the administration's *own* propaganda

MayBee said...

Remember when the head of NASA said his main mission from Obama was to make Muslim nations feel good about themselves and their scientific histories?

Tank said...

Anglelyne said...

Tank: On my way to the golf course yesterday, I listened to 75 minutes of NPR radio...

Why, Tank, why? Why do you torture yourself like this?


Because I find BS interesting, and there is A LOT of BS on my local Black, Commie, Queer (their word), anti-American, antisemitic hate NPR.

It's why I became interested in black people (as a group). The amazing never-ending BS.

Also, you should listen to the other side to see what they are saying. Even if it drives you to drink. Hey, isn't this national martini day or something?

MayBee said...

From The Telegraph:
Charles Bolden, a retired United States Marines Corps major-general and former astronaut, said in an interview with al-Jazeera that Nasa was not only a space exploration agency but also an "Earth improvement agency".
Mr Bolden said: "When I became the Nasa administrator, he [Mr Obama] charged me with three things.
"One, he wanted me to help reinsure children to want to get into science and math; he wanted me to expand our international relationships; and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering."
He added: "It is a matter of trying to reach out and get the best of all worlds, if you will, and there is much to be gained by drawing in the contributions that are possible from the Muslim [nations]."

Matthew Sablan said...

Odd. NBC had no problem showing the video tape from the killer of the VA Tech shootings. Hard to believe that was so long ago, so it may not be a perfect parallel.

rhhardin said...

They broadcast the narrative that their regular audience wants to watch.

Rae said...

I've seen a lefty arguing on twitter that because he *may* have been gay, he couldn't be a Muslim, therefore this was homophobia and not terrorism, therefore it was Christians fault.

I gave up.

rhhardin said...

Do not ascribe to evil what can be accounted for by love of money.

Paco Wové said...

"If ISIS is the enemy, why would we rebroadcast their proganda?"

"Acknowledging their existence" does not equal "rebroadcast[ing] their pro[pa]ganda".

Aside from the "we must scapegoat other Americans" aspect.

MayBee said...

Come on, lefties....

What are your proposals for "common sense" gun control that would have stopped these publicized mass shootings? What is your proposal for "common sense" gun control that would stop gang-related killings?
What is your proposal for "common sense" gun control that would reduce the number of suicides? Are you against suicide?

Tank said...

ADDED: Lynch also appeared on "Meet the Press," where she said that the government will be releasing partial transcripts of Mateen's negotiations with law enforcement. Asked what's being left out — why only partial transcripts? — Lynch said: "What we're not going to do is further proclaim this individual's allegiance to terrorist groups and further his propaganda."

LOL. This is great. To further our propaganda we will not be furthering his propaganda!

Anglelyne said...

tim maguire: How does Lynch's explanation even make sense?

It makes perfect sense if you understand it the way it was intended. See: boot, face, forever.

(Ever feel like we've reached the stage where the PTBs shovel bullshit at us just for the tyrant's pleasure of watching us being forced to eat it?)

Tank said...

As fun as this is, I must go home and start drinking Father's Day Martini binis.

Happy Father's Day to yous guys.

Terry said...

The Democrat plan to fight terrorism:
More Muslims! Fewer means of defense!

Matthew Sablan said...

During the Tuscon 2011 mass shooting, the media was perfectly fine to invite motives for the shooter, even if it meant re-victimizing people.

Matthew Sablan said...

"And really, the LGBT community is too often the target of large scale terror attacks?"

Maybe not in the U.S., but in some places in the Middle East, they do still burn homosexuals to death and throw them off roofs.

MayBee said...

I mean, talk about propaganda:

The women's pay gap statistics Obama cites are a sham
The college rape statistics Obama cites are a sham
The bankruptcy rates for medical expenses Elizabeth Warren came up with were a sham
The "common sense" gun laws argument that they would stop gun violence is an obvious sham
The 97% of scientists agree with AGW statistic is a sham
If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor was a sham
Everyone that is killed in a drone strike is an enemy combatant is a sham

Is it that you like his goals, and so it doesn't bother you that he lies/ spreads propaganda?

tim in vermont said...

If ISIS is the enemy, why would we rebroadcast their proganda? - Left Bank of the Charles

Well, Imagine if in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor the president when on about airplane control and refused to acknowledge the responsibility of the Empire of Japan. Suppose that we had recordings of pilots declaring their love for the Emperor while attacking. Would it be forbidden to broadcast it?

Clearly you simply do not believe that ISIS is the enemy, so you are concern trolling. Whatevs.

MayBee said...

Michelle Obama should take a stand. SHe's traveling to Morocco at the end of the month. Being Lesbian or Gay is illegal Morocco.
She should cancel that trip unless they change their law.

Matthew Sablan said...

"What are your proposals for "common sense" gun control that would have stopped these publicized mass shootings?"

-- I'm not a lefty, but I'd be willing to consider certain legislation, but only AFTER we actually properly enforce the ones on the books and see if that works. For example, both this shooter and the VA Tech shooter had histories of violence that should have been a flag to keep them from buying a gun. But, in both cases, the government dropped the ball and approved the sale.

What's the point of MORE regulations and legislation if the government will just screw it up? Let's enforce what we have, do it properly, and then we can readjust and see where to go from there.

Anglelyne said...

MayBee quoting: "One, he wanted me to help reinsure children to want to get into..."

"[T]o help reinsure children to want".

Wut?

HT said...

I'll be interested in reading responses to Matthew Sablan.

Meantime, regarding the transcripts, why doesn't someone start a petition to release the FULL transcripts? That is, if people are really serious about their complaints.

MayBee said...

SHe's also going to Liberia, where being gay or lesbian is illegal.

Cancel the trip where LGBT people aren't safe, Mrs Obama!

Michael K said...

"the PTBs shovel bullshit at us just for the tyrant's pleasure of watching us being forced to eat it?"

This is the essence of communist rule. It is also in "1984."

Humiliation is essential to discourage those who might rebel.

I'm not sure it's ever been successfully tried in a country with 300 million civilian guns.

MayBee said...

I agree with Matthew Sablan.

I believe Dylan Roof was also not eligible to buy a gun, but his background check didn't show that.

Matthew Sablan said...

MayBee: You're right, at least according to Wiki, which quotes FBI Director James Comey saying that "Roof "'as able to purchase the gun used in the attack only because of lapses in the FBI's background-check system.'"

Sebastian said...

Looked it up on NPR:

"He said Mateen also apparently posted the following messages:

"America and Russia stop bombing the Islamic state..I pledge my allegiance to abu bakr al Baghdadi..may Allah accept me." (Baghdadi is the leader of ISIS).
"The real muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west."
"You kill innocent women and children by doing us airstrikes..now taste the Islamic state vengeance."
And finally: "In the next few days you will see attacks from the Islamic state in the usa."

Of course, rebroadcasting has nothing to do with "revictimizing." Progs just want to keep their eye on the ball.

MayBee said...

Yes.

The Atlantic

How did Dylann Roof pass a criminal background check to buy a gun? Initial reports suggested that Roof’s purchase of the gun he used to murder nine people at Emanuel A.M.E. Church in Charleston, South Carolina, was legal. But now FBI Director James Comey says that’s wrong: Roof should have been prevented from buying the .45 caliber pistol, but something went awry during the background-check process.

Federal laws prevent certain people from purchasing guns, including those facing charges that might result in a prison term of at least a year. Roof was charged earlier this year for the possession of a drug called Suboxone, a misdemeanor offense that did not meet that threshold, and so would not have barred him from making the purchase. But the rules also bar anyone “who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance” from buying a gun. When he was arrested on March 1 for possession, Roof told investigators that he had used the drug, which should automatically have disqualified him. Somehow, that crucial fact never made it into the background-check database.

n.n said...

The transgender/homosexual, minority diversity class aspect of this mass abortion has posed a real challenge for them to spin their narratives.

Still, since people accepted redistributive change (i.e. centrally managed involuntary exploitation) and progressive debt in order to acknowledge that human life begins with spontaneous conception, the liberalization (i.e. divergence), albeit selective, of reality itself was a baby step forward in social evolution.

Curious George said...

"Matthew Sablan said...
"And really, the LGBT community is too often the target of large scale terror attacks?"

Maybe not in the U.S., but in some places in the Middle East, they do still burn homosexuals to death and throw them off roof."

How is this anyway pertinent to Lynch's or my statement.

mockturtle said...

Remember that a Muslim wipes his ass with his left hand.

coupe said...

Christina Grimmie was killed by the same people who are killing the innocent in America. The free-ranging insane.

Little Connie has a beautiful tribute Sailing Safe

Gusty Winds said...

At this point, even the Democrats' claims of concerns for the victims seems like lie.

"How come you won't let the American people hear the whole thing and make up their own minds"

"When it comes to protecting the victims and children, we can let anybody make up their own minds"

Rusty said...

damikesc said...
How many of those were suicide?

How many of the remaining shootings were self defense?

Are telling those "reasonable" restriction don't always work?
Get out. Really?


33,000 die of gunshot wounds in America.

roughly half. 15,000 are suicide
Of he other 15,000 About 10,000 are drug/gang related
about 900 are accidents.
about 1,800 are "justified"
The rest are homicides not related to any of the above.


Rusty said...

I guess the usual suspects are waiting for their marching orders.

MayBee said...

Ben Rhodes already admitted the Obama administration uses certain members of the press to carry their chosen narrative, even if it is a lie.

So there really isn't that much to guess at here, is there?

khesanh0802 said...

Have to agree wholeheartedly with Anglelyne's 1048 about the MSM. Glancing at the WaPo font page is scary stuff. Most journalists are smart enough to know that they are not following the story, but shilling for the administration. It has to be painful to their sense of self after a while. I have been looking for Trump's actual statement about Orlando all week. I read it last Sunday, perhaps here. It was lucid and sympathetic. It has disappeared from the cosmos so that only the dumb tweet is there to talk about.

hombre said...

In a recent Gallup poll 60% of Democrats said the Orlando shooting was about "domestic gun violence AS OPPOSED TO Islamist terrorism.

It helped me remember why I am a former Democrat. Still, I am hard pressed to believe even Democrats are that deluded.

The "solution," of course, is tighter controls on gun sales to people on watch lists. These are evidently Americans who believe that only people, not guns, cross our porous borders and that terrorists, like criminals, have to buy their guns from Cabelas.

The stupidity is staggering. It is the same mentality that causes people to lie on the floor waiting to be slaughtered by terrorist gunmen.

Greg Hlatky said...

The shooting occurred in a gay nightclub but there's no evidence that Mateen targeted gays specifically. If he had, you'd wouldn't be hearing anything else.

MayBee said...

Right on cue, The Atlantic follows up on the Dylann Roof story with the idea that this was a loophole in need of closing:

Two months before Dylann Roof gunned down nine people at Mother Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, he went to buy a .45-caliber Glock pistol at a gun store in a rundown strip mall. The 21-year-old should have been barred from purchasing the gun due to an earlier drug arrest. But the sale went through because of a loophole in the National Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, the FBI later said.

Roof was able to buy the weapon after the investigator assigned to complete his background check wasn’t able to find his police record, which contained a confession for drug possession. Under federal law, NICS has three business days to finish vetting a gun buyer, or the sale can proceed. When the deadline expired with his background check still incomplete, Roof got his gun.


See? A loophole!!!!
So.....what would have made the investigator "able" to "find" Roof's record?
And what if, say, a president who didn't like guns told the NICS to pull a LoIs Lerner on gun background checks?

hombre said...

coupe: "Christina Grimmie was killed by the same people who are killing the innocent in America. The free-ranging insane."

You are dangerously uninformed.

Alan Anderson said...

"Right now there is a disturbing, and growing, undertone of hysteria in the MSM, that goes way beyond standard press bias and dishonesty. To describe them as "losing their shit" wouldn't be hyperbolic."

Agree, this past week I had two occasions to hit the wrong radio button and hit AM820 the local "progressive" radio in Chicago.

The first a stammering caller read what he called a Treason statute and then demanded that all NRA and gun owners be charged with Treason...

The second the radio host ruminated that "they (?) are trying to organize a white insurrection"

And no I am not making this up..

khesanh0802 said...

Matthew is right. Until the Feds prove they can effectively enforce the gun laws on the books additional laws should not be passed. That goes for immigration as well. There was a headline in a MPLS paper yesterday that Trump's deportation plan would screw up the dairy farmers. Apparently they need illegals to milk the cows; the cows will not give milk for citizens. Aren't employers supposed to check immigration status?

grackle said...

Wouldn't releasing that tape be a state or local freedom of information issue? Wouldn't the media typically sue to obtain release?

Things can happen to tapes. Tapes can disappear. Or they can have mysterious erasures and jumps in time – all just glitches, failures of technology.

From coupe:

There is no depth a Democrat will not stoop to, to serve socialism and the national debt. As you know, since we left the gold standard, the increasing debt allows us to print more money.

Vaguely rightwing but a bit off and slightly strange – as if someone were trying to imitate rightwing rhetoric. And then the rest of the comment:

Immigrants from third-world countries increase the debt the fastest.

Again, kind of rightwing but not really …

Even if they don't have a visa or passport.

Just strange …

You can vote now in America, without being a citizen.

Probably true in some areas. But …

This is why you don't want to have a vote to disarm the country.

… the follow-up sentence is incoherent – makes no sense, it doesn’t really fit in with the “vote now in America” part of the statement.

More from coupe:

More people are dying from no affordable health care, than queers in a bar.

Typical Moby move. “Rightwingers are homophobic” is the message.

Ever since Obama destroyed this countries fragile health insurance system, he left millions of Americans to join the rest of the third world slums.

Again, the first part about Obama and the health system is typical rightwing stuff but after the comma it’s all “rightwingers have contempt for poor people,” which is NOT typical of rightwing thought.

Doctors are leaving, because they are not getting paid by the few insurance companies left.

Followed up by something, while probably true, is mere window dressing for the real message: that rightwingers hate the poor and homosexuals.

So far in my mind the debate has been between whether coupe is a fruitcake or a moby. I think we have our answer.

The moby method: Team a valid observation or almost valid observation with a totally off-the-wall conclusion. That way you discredit the valid observation.

I'm listening to CSPAN radio and Donald Trump. Does he seriously think that neither Obama nor H. Clinton understand that radical islam is a problem?

Yes. And quite a few of us share that belief. We believe that Obama and Hillary are resigned to these attacks and think that America can “absorb” these attacks. It all seems to be about the idea that there’s no sacrifice too great for diversity.

http://tinyurl.com/ngdybgl

grackle said...

The shooting occurred in a gay nightclub but there's no evidence that Mateen targeted gays specifically. If he had, you'd wouldn't be hearing anything else.

I do not think it was a random selection of a soft target that just happened to be a gay nightclub. Not when gay-hatred is so much a part of the Muslim culture.

Quaestor said...

Aren't employers supposed to check immigration status?

An acquaintance of mine used to argue with me about his use of illegal immigrant workers in his business. They're efficient and skilled, he said, the jobs he needs done cannot be handled by citizens, lazy and drug-addled as they are.

He began to change his tune when $10K of his inventory disappeared along with an employee. "I've stopped hiring Mexicans," he said, "too many of them are thieves. From now on I'm using Guatemalans exclusively."

That was last year. The camel's back was broken and a new Trump voter minted by the latest incident. On Tuesday he received a sheaf of registered mail containing a police report, a court summons, and a demand from an insurance adjuster over a hit-and-run collision involving one of his trucks, a lawful Korean immigrant laid up with a neck injury, and an unlawful Guatemalan immigrant disappeared somewhere south of the border.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

Everyone should listen to National Propaganda Radio(NPR) occasionally to monitor how our tax dollars are being spent. I listen often and NPR is going much further than Tank mentions. Dina Temple-Raston their go to reporter for this incident has been increasingly insistent that law enforcement can find NO terrorist ties. That Mateen did NOT show increasing signs of radicalization or religiosity. That his religiosity did not "increase" because he was raised as a radical who pilgrimaged twice to Saudi Arabia is ignored. They are reporting he was "bullied" in school, not that he was expelled for taunting his classmates that America deserved 9/11. No terrorism - period. Just a man who fits the profile of a "mass shooter". Based on their comment section - the vast majority of the NPR audience believes. Propaganda is effective, that is why NPR is government funded. The insane thing is how Republicans keep the cash flowing. Funding an entity whose goal is your destruction seems crazy. Then again these are the same Republicans leading the charge against their own nominee.......

Michael K said...

The second the radio host ruminated that "they (?) are trying to organize a white insurrection"

This is why I fear mass rioting in Cleveland this summer. First, summer is riot and flash mob season in Chicago, and second the left is stirring up a lot of paranoia among their foot soldier types.

Riots and assassination are real concerns this season. Right up until the election.

Jupiter said...

"We're trying not to revictimize those who went through that horror."

That's why they never mention gangs at the trials of gangsters. To mention that the killer was a member of a gang, and was flashing gang symbols, would revictimize the people he killed.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

Democrats gun grabbing obsession defies reality. Heroin has been illegal throughout the entire USA for over a hundred years. Heroin is illegal in most countries. After a hundred years of heroin being illegal and decades of a "war on drugs" heroin is widely available for purchase illegally in every state. In fact, the drug is so prevalent that addiction has become a major campaign issue. Yet we are supposed to believe gun laws will stop criminals from obtaining guns.

Char Char Binks said...

We're on a need-to-know basis. We can trust AG Lynch, can't we?

Real American said...

I'd be more interested in (and shocked by!) Obama's pledge of allegiance to America.

Fred Drinkwater said...

Tank, Angelyne: Yeah, I listen to NPR for the same reason. Besides, it's good to practice critical listening, even though their skill at propaganda is typically middle-school level.

MayBee: My father retired as Director of Aircraft Operations and Chief Pilot at NASA Ames Flight Research Center, in the late 80s. I occasionally visit the facility, which has mostly been chopped up for various non-NASA purposes. It break my heart to see it now, and I am glad my father died before he had to see it be degraded so much.
Just last week I attended the memorial service for his predecessor at Ames, George Cooper. During the long, well-attended service, I heard NO ONE mention what was going on at Ames these days. It was like there was a blanket prohibition against admitting that that part of their legacy had been trashed. (I never advertise this site, but: http://californiasempster.blogspot.com/2013/07/ufo-over-mountain-view.html#links )

HT said...

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

Everyone should listen to National Propaganda Radio(NPR) occasionally to monitor how our tax dollars are being spent. I listen often and NPR is going much further than Tank mentions. Dina Temple-Raston their go to reporter for this incident has been increasingly insistent that law enforcement can find NO terrorist ties. That Mateen did NOT show increasing signs of radicalization or religiosity. That his religiosity did not "increase" because he was raised as a radical who pilgrimaged twice to Saudi Arabia is ignored. They are reporting he was "bullied" in school, not that he was expelled for taunting his classmates that America deserved 9/11. No terrorism - period. Just a man who fits the profile of a "mass shooter". Based on their comment section - the vast majority of the NPR audience believes. Propaganda is effective, that is why NPR is government funded. The insane thing is how Republicans keep the cash flowing. Funding an entity whose goal is your destruction seems crazy. Then again these are the same Republicans leading the charge against their own nominee.......
6/19/16, 12:34 PM

What draws people to terrorism? What propels them to commit mass murder? We asked these questions back in December after a self-radicalized couple shot and killed 14 people and wounded 22 others in San Bernadino, California. This past weekend, the carnage continued. The rampage at The Pulse, a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida is the deadliest mass shooting in recent U-S history. In a 911 call from the club, the perpetrator, 29-year-old Omar Mateen, pledged his allegiance to ISIS. One of the San Bernadino shooters had done something very similar. She'd pledged her allegiance to ISIS on Facebook.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/14/481911436/the-psychology-of-modern-terrorism-what-drives-radicalization-at-home

HT said...

khesanh0802 said...

Have to agree wholeheartedly with Anglelyne's 1048 about the MSM. Glancing at the WaPo font page is scary stuff. Most journalists are smart enough to know that they are not following the story, but shilling for the administration. It has to be painful to their sense of self after a while. I have been looking for Trump's actual statement about Orlando all week. I read it last Sunday, perhaps here. It was lucid and sympathetic. It has disappeared from the cosmos so that only the dumb tweet is there to talk about.
6/19/16, 11:49 AM


It's not hard to locate. I just listened to it on the radio.

buwaya puti said...

" It has to be painful to their sense of self after a while."

Most have been at it for a very long time, and nearly all were educated in loyalty to the tribe their whole lives. No, their sense of self is dependent on being with the program, the opposite is what is painful. They are entirely unable, with few exceptions (Sheryl Atkinson, and a very few others), to break out.
You can cite facts, that they will acknowledge, and they will blank them out instantly. There is literally no ability to argue in a dialectic.

Amadeus 48 said...

A few thoughts:
As to the MSM, is there any doubtvas to how they prioritize their narrative agenda? Their mindset exactly coincides with the Dem party line.
As to Attorney General Lynch, is there any doubt as to her partisan loyalties? Is there any doubt as to the way justice is administered by the Obama Administration? The corruption runs all the way to the bottom. I suspect it was the same way in the FDR adminstration.
As to Obama and Islam, is there any doubt that his goal is to rebalance the view of Islam in the US to get Americans to focus on the vast majority of Muslims who want to live their lives in peace? Is there any doubt that Obama hurts his own cause with his dishonesty?

HT said...

khesanh0802 said...

Matthew is right. Until the Feds prove they can effectively enforce the gun laws on the books additional laws should not be passed. That goes for immigration as well. There was a headline in a MPLS paper yesterday that Trump's deportation plan would screw up the dairy farmers. Apparently they need illegals to milk the cows; the cows will not give milk for citizens. Aren't employers supposed to check immigration status?


The owner of the gun shop where Omar Mateen, the shooter in the Orlando nightclub attack, legally bought two guns called the assailant "an evil person" who had passed a full background check.

Ed Henson, owner of the St. Lucie Shooting Center, held a brief news conference Monday afternoon, saying if Mateen "hadn't purchased them from us, I'm sure he would have gotten them from another local gun store in the area."

Henson said he used to be a New York City police officer, had worked at the twin towers in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks and retired in March 2002.

He said Mateen had multiple security guard licenses, one armed and another unarmed, and passed the background check required under law. He said he doesn't recall exactly when Mateen made the purchases of a long gun and a handgun, but that the weapons were bought separately in a period of about a week.

Henson bristled at reports that he said suggested that Mateen benefited from a cursory background check. "There's no such thing as an abbreviated background check," he said. He also said reports that Mateen bought body armor at his gun shop were wrong. "We've never sold body armor, and we don't currently sell body armor," he said.

Henson acknowledged that he had seen Mateen in his shop but said that he didn't know the gunman. He referred to Mateen several times but never directly by his name, only as the "evil person."

"I'm just sorry he picked my place," said Henson. "I wish he had picked no place."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/13/481938884/gun-shop-owner-evil-person-bought-weapons-legally-before-orlando-attack

ndspinelli said...

They edit out tough questions from State Dept. briefings. This is the Orwell Administration.

Cornroaster said...

But..But...Isn't this "the most transparent administration ever?"

HT said...

Cornroaster said...

But..But...Isn't this "the most transparent administration ever?"

6/19/16, 1:54 PM

Definitely not. Most Democrats I know do not conclude that it is.

n.n said...

They teach abortion rites, selective exclusion, progressive confusion, and class diversity in our public schools. Lynch's credibility is extremely strained when she rationalizes the administrations' orientation and behavior with pro-choice policy. As if their advocacy for selective-child policy did not already require suspension of disbelief, now they don't want to report on what may be inconvenient or unwanted by the administration.

damikesc said...

Let's be honest...Left does not want gun control. They oppose common sense reforms (punish people convicted of illegal possession of guns in federal court with far harsher punishments (Chicago punishes illegal firearms possession as a misdemeanor).

Char Char Binks said...

@damikesc

Of course. In addition to supporting gun control, one of the biggest tenets of liberalism and leftism is being soft on crime.

Mark said...

They are "not going to further his propaganda" because they have their own propaganda to further.

Robert Cook said...

"In no segment did anyone say any of the following words: Islam. Muslim. Radical. Terrorist. Immigration. ISIS.

"Not one time.

"Are we living in the most dishonest times ever, or has it always been like this?"


It has always been like this. Every time in which humankind lives is a dishonest time, as lies are the universal human lingua Franca. However, Mateen's atrocity was not Islamic terrorism, but was the violent eruption of a person who was a disturbed and violent failure throughout his life, and possibly a conflicted and closeted homosexual. His claim to being a warrior for ISIS was a pretense at being something more than a pathetic coward and loser.

Matthew Sablan said...

"And what if, say, a president who didn't like guns told the NICS to pull a LoIs Lerner on gun background checks?"

-- Which is why there's a three-day timer. If the government doesn't think properly doing background checks for gun purchases is a high enough priority to get it done in three days -- I can get my credit score from transcript from college faster! -- then maybe they need to reconsider their priorities.

Matthew Sablan said...

In 2013, Mateen claimed to have ties to Al Qaeda and to be a member of Hezbelloah. During the shooting he told hostages that it was a political act to get the United States to stop bombing "his country."

Now, we know that's somewhat contradictory. So, he might ALSO hate homosexuals. He may be mentally unsound. I firmly believe that many of these mass shootings are done by people with a few screws loose and mental problems. But, you can't ignore what they're telling you. We didn't ignore the South Carolina shooter's obvious politics, even if he was also a racist nut job; we tried to create political motivations for the Tuscon shooter, even though we learned he was a nutcase first.

So... why in very specific cases [this shooting, the Fort Hood shooting] do we strenuously object to allowing people to weigh in on the political statements made by crazy people -- when in OTHER cases, we are perfectly fine letting crazy people's political statements stand, and invent them for other crazy people? It's that inherent intellectual dishonesty that is the problem with Lynch and others on the left.

If they were consistent, it wouldn't be a problem to again say: Yeah, he made some political claims, but foremost, you have to remember the shooter had several mental disorders. Instead, in every other instance of a mass shooter with mental disorders, they've said: Yeah, he might have had some mental disorders, but listen to his political statements.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

@HT
Note I said "increasingly insistent". Initially the story line was "we are not sure." Definitely guns, but could be related to Islamic terrorism. Now Democrats have fully united around the meme that this had NOTHING to do with Islamic terrorism. Note the date on the article you linked was 6/14/16.

On 6/16/16:
"the evidence is beginning to suggest the killings may have more in common with a traditional mass shooting than an ISIS-inspired terrorist attack."
"Aside from that, there's nothing that indicates he had any terrorist ties much before the attack."
http://www.npr.org/2016/06/16/482362948/investigators-provide-more-background-on-orlando-nightclub-shooter

On 6/18/16:
"officials say it is possible the shooter in this week's attack on an Orlando gay nightclub mentioned ISIS to cover for the real reason for the attack."
"So investigators are suggesting to you that Omar Mateen's post about ISIS might have been what amounted to a cover story for some other motive.
TEMPLE-RASTON: A cover story or maybe a story of convenience."
http://www.npr.org/2016/06/18/482594653/orlando-shooter-update-few-warning-signs-point-to-radicalization

The NPR website has one article that notes Mateen visited Saudi Arabia twice, that was never reported on air. Nowhere has NPR reported that Mateen worshipped at the same mosque and was friendly with Moner-Muhammad Abu Salha an American who went to Syria in 2014 where he did a suicide bombing. That a mosque of only 200 has produced two terrorist in two years should certainly be newsworthy and very relevant to this incident. NPR is purposefully misleading their audience.

Moneyrunner said...

This is worth repeating because this uses Team Obama logic.

Enough: After Orlando, We Must Defund Planned Parenthood and Rethink Gay Marriage Ruling

Last weekend, a 29-year-old Islamist radical slaughtered 49 innocent people at a gay nightclub in central Florida. In response, Congress must immediately strip taxpayer funding from Planned Parenthood. This well-funded special interest group generously finances friendly legislators' campaigns, in exchange for which those politicians obstinately oppose any and all common sense restrictions on abortion -- regardless of strong public support for increased regulations. They are on the wrong side of history. The American people are horrified by Planned Parenthood's business model, which relies on the unregulated killing of unborn humans. This systematic extinguishing of human life fuels a culture of death in which Orlando shooter Omar Mateen marinated for nearly three decades. Planned Parenthood has contributed heavily to this morally-polluted environment, which devalues and dehumanizes innocent life, just like radical Islamism does.

There is a word for Planned Parenthood's role in this form of terrorism: complicity. Democrats in Congress must be held to account for their routine legislative defense of this organization, which should be stripped of all taxpayer funding as soon as possible. The pro-death atmosphere Cecile Richards' outfit helps create continues to put Americans at risk. Have we learned nothing from these acts of terrorism? An all-male Supreme Court may have ruled that abortion is a constitutionally-protected right, even though our founding document is silent on the issue, but that supposed "right" is killing us right now. Granted, cutting off public funding for Planned Parenthood may not have prevented what happened at the Pulse nightclub, and it may not stop future atrocities. But it we can save just one life, not to mention the countless lives targeted by abortionists, it will be worth it.

Read the rest here: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/06/17/after-orlando-we-must-defund-planned-parenthood-and-reverse-gay-marriage-ruling-n2179544

Robert Cook said...

"This election is the last chance to peacefully take control of the country back from the oligarchs who currently dominate both parties."

You're mistaken. It's too late; the oligarchs own the country. The people have been disenfranchised. Don't expect Trump, even if he wins, to make any changes.

Matthew Sablan said...

At one point, people were trying to turn one mass shooter's stopping at Chic Fil A into a political statement! In fact, his statement of where he got the targets was often downplayed!

So, tell me again: Why in this case are we suddenly NOT concerned about political actions and statements?

Fernandinande said...

Unknown said...
Home Should Not Be a War Zone
By Gen. Stanley McChrystal.


Are we supposed to think that he doesn't have at least one gun in his house?

“... this past weekend, at least 121 people across the country were fatally shot."

Typical is about 33 per day, so "this past weekend" was atypical and misleading. An oversight, I'm sure.

"in Roswell, N.M., a man was charged on Sunday with shooting his wife and their four children to death on Saturday. The oldest was 14; the youngest was 3."

Juan David Villegas-Hernandez (Trump was right!) His wife was filing for divorce, so perhaps you can blame the feminist court system, the only thing which has ever gotten me to fantasize about shooting people.

"Our leaders can start by doing more to keep guns out of the hands of those who cannot be trusted to handle them responsibly."

Blacks. Not crazy people, not terrorists, etc. So it's politically impossible - he couldn't even say it.

"Between 1993 and 2000, the gun homicide rate dropped by nearly half, from 7.0 homicides to 3.8 homicides per 100,000 people.
...
Despite these trends, most U.S. adults think gun crimes have increased."

Fernandinande said...

surfed said...
"Hey Mateen where you going with that gun in your hand..."


"I'm goin' way down south
Way down to Orlando way"

buwaya puti said...

Robert Cook, you may be right; still, looking at it dispassionately, it seems to be worth a try, there being no remaining safe options.
I am a bit surprised you arent on board. Cultural issues?

Robert Cook said...

On board with what? Trump? I'd never vote for him, though I think I prefer he win than Hillary, who is more dangerous, given her Washington bona fides. I'll be voting for Jill Stein, as I did in 2012.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Guy murders black church members in Charleston and has a photo of a confederate battle flag in one of his accounts = non-stop coverage of "racist flag issues," immediate classification of the murderer as a racist white supremacist--including smearing anyone the Media disliked (republicans, southerners, white men, etc) as dangerous, violent racists.

Possibly-gay Muslim democrat murders a lot of people in a gay bar in Orlando= his religion and beliefs had nothing to do with it, the issue is only gun control, publicising things he said or posted would cause some people to blame innocent members of communities to which he belonged, and that is just wrong because collective guilt is bad and unAmerican.

Too damn bad, assholes. If collective guilt is good enough when you wrr smearing me, it ought to be good enough when some group you like might get smeared. Alternately you could knock if off in all cases, but since we know the Media will never do that,here we are.

The Government choosing what facts it allows its citizens to know (and which truths it allows its citizens to hear) when talking about a public event (not some classified state secret or something) is about as contrary to the notion of American transparency as you can get.
Government isn't your mommy and doesn't get to choose when you find out the truth about the Tooth Fairy. It is bad enough that the Media refuses to cover things (like the truth about what ISIS really does, the actual beliefs of these poor Muslim "refugees," etc) but it really is unacceptable as official government policy.

Anglelyne said...

khesanh0802: There was a headline in a MPLS paper yesterday that Trump's deportation plan would screw up the dairy farmers. Apparently they need illegals to milk the cows; the cows will not give milk for citizens. Aren't employers supposed to check immigration status?

Hahahahahahahaha.

Sorry, khesanh, no insult intended, but I'm always amazed that there are people out there still shocked by examples of this decades-old, country-wide, entrenched ignoring of immigration law.

This is what happens as soon as you look the other way when a few businesses in a few industries start engaging in some shady labor practices. Soon the law-abiding businesses become unable to compete with the cheaters, and join the corruption. Next on board are all the "nice" people who don't want to think too hard about the externalities, economic and otherwise, that accompany all those lovely, hard-working (and now affordable for them!) maids and landscapers who started appearing all over the country in the wake of the meat-packers, farmers, and dairy-men becoming addicted to illegal labor.

In this relaxed atmosphere, immigration-related corruption and abuse now flourish, far beyond the industries of the original scoff-laws. And they all have their excuses for why it's all right for them to break the law. (And absolutely none of these people will ever hold themselves responsible the breakdown of the rule of law that's the inevitable consequence of their behavior.)

Greg Hlatky said...

We will start to take this seriously when terrorists start targeting politicians, journalists and professors.

Terry said...

The idea that Mateen was a practicing homosexual is gaining currency (see Cook's post, for example). I have seen no convincing evidence that this is true. There is a lot of hearsay about his occasional presence at the club, nothing definitive.

Levi Starks said...

Must.protect.Mohammed. and his religion of peace.
At.all.costs.

Original Mike said...

Robert Cook said..."However, Mateen's atrocity was not Islamic terrorism, but was the violent eruption of a person who was a disturbed ..."

This, folks, is why they won't release his statements.

Lydia said...

Good for Dana Bash. She was able to get Lynch to say that Mateen never once mentioned gays in his conversations with negotiators:

Attorney General Loretta Lynch: It will contain the substance of his conversations. And there were three conversations between this killer and negotiators.

Dana Bash: He was, of course, in a gay nightclub. Did he talk about his feelings about gay Americans?

Lynch: You know, he didn’t get into that. So we’re still exploring why he chose this particular place to attack.

He didn't get into that. No wonder Lynch et al. are so busy, busy working to change the focus -- Mateen himself was no help at all.

Robert Cook said...

"The idea that Mateen was a practicing homosexual is gaining currency (see Cook's post, for example). I have seen no convincing evidence that this is true. There is a lot of hearsay about his occasional presence at the club, nothing definitive."

I said he was "possibly a conflicted, closeted homosexual." I didn't state as fact Mateen was a practicing homosexual. However, attendees at the club reported having seen him there numerous times,and it is reported he had gay dating apps on his phone. I believe at least one person claims Mateen tried to initiate a date or some kind of encounter with him, which the claimant turned down. It was also reported his wife said Mateen had homosexual tendencies.

It's also been reported he was an awkward, socially isolated individual, as many mass killers are.

Whatever set him off, it seems "Islamic extremism" was more a post hoc justification than a driving motivational force.

Matthew Sablan said...

Based on what Cook?

The evidence we have is that he says X caused him to do this. During his talks with authorities, Y never came up. He's been stating X for years, even if they have been weird statements, such as supporting Al Qaeda AND Hezbelloah AND ISIL/S at the same time.

Over the years there have been... zero reported stories about him feeling conflicted about homosexuals, save one statement from his father about him seeing two men kissing that drove him over the edge. A statement that, as far as I know, has no corroboration and is from someone who is not trustworthy.

Have I missed something since the shooting happened that demonstrated we should look beyond Occam's Razor here?

Terry said...

Cook, you've said that Mateen was "possibly a conflicted and closeted homosexual." That can be said of virtually anyone. If you don't believe it, why mention it?
You've also said that Mateen was "disturbed and violent failure throughout his life." No evidence for this. He completed community college, and had began a career in security. He owned real estate. His violence, aside from words, was (apparently) inside his previous marriage.
The evidence that Mateen's primary motivation for his murder spree was Islam is overwhelming. He said so himself.

Paco Wové said...

"Whatever set him off, it seems "Islamic extremism" was more a post hoc justification than a driving motivational force."

It couldn't have been too post hoc, what with him being dead and all.

He already said why he did it. "...real muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west... You kill innocent women and children by doing us airstrikes.. now taste the Islamic state vengeance." (By the way, this guy was born and raised here and he could torture English into "doing us airstrikes"? Great job, FL. public schools.)

The workings of your mind are a wonder to behold, RC.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

"It's also been reported he was an awkward, socially isolated individual, as many mass killers are."

That description fit the Planned Parenthood shooter who lived alone in a shack. However, it does not fit Mateen at all.

He was NOT "socially isolated". He was married, his wife even drove him to the gay club to case it on at least one occasion. He has family. He was close enough to his sister that he signed his house over to her a few days before the shooting. His friendship with Moner-Muhammad Abu Salha the American born Syrian suicide bomber was one of the incidents that got him on the terrorist watch list. He attended mosque four times a week. He was able to function and work. Expressing hatred for America and support for Islam are sentiments shared by millions of muslims. Labeling those beliefs as "mental illness" is classic leftism but completely wrong.

HT said...

Wait, what was the question again?

Well anyway, going to a club and shooting people who are about as harmful as teddy bears is not something that strikes me as a particularly robust display of Islamic strike-back.

Robert Cook said...

"Post hoc" in that he declared his "allegiance" to ISIS in the midst of (what he surely knew was) his suicide killing spree. As for those who doubt his being an angry, contentious person his whole life, with few or no close friends, always seen by his peers as an oddball, read some of the news reports about him, rather than just the headlines.He fits the profile of the alienated, isolated loner who goes off on a killing spree.

Paco Wové said...

Yup, RC, just the kind of person we need a lot more of in this country. No evidence of radicalization at all. Who would have thought? Surely that ISIS talk was just cover for all that gay-killing thirst.

Matthew Sablan said...

There's also people who report him as nice, not having problems with homosexuals, etc., etc.

And, at the moment, Wiki is quoting: "On June 16, 2016, The New York Times reported that "the F.B.I. is increasingly skeptical of reports that Mr. Mateen was gay but “closeted,”", and the FBI added its skepticism that the terrorist had made use of homosexual bars or apps.[60] On June 18, the same source added that "federal officials say they have found no evidence in his effects or online presence to back them up."[61]"

So, right now: Maybe not gay, but no evidence that he had homosexual apps on his phone or online presence.

Matthew Sablan said...

So, right now we have: Eyewitness reports claiming this guy did a lot of things.

We must contrast that with: Eyewitnesses who claim they've never seen this guy before AND the FBI saying their search, thus far, has not found any evidence on his online presence or in his personal effects. Unless the Wiki is out of date, which is possible, I find it hard to decisively say either way, but the safer bet is the side that shows there's no digital evidence.

Paco Wové said...

Maybe he just targeted that bar because it was one that he knew about, and it was likely to have a large crowd in it. Gay/straight, irrelevant. All about the bodycount.

Terry said...

"As for those who doubt his being an angry, contentious person his whole life, with few or no close friends, always seen by his peers as an oddball, read some of the news reports about him, rather than just the headlines.He fits the profile of the alienated, isolated loner who goes off on a killing spree."
So he's no longer a "disturbed and violent failure"?
We've gone from Mateen being "a person who was a disturbed and violent failure throughout his life, and possibly a conflicted and closeted homosexual."
to Mateen being "an angry, contentious person his whole life, with few or no close friends, always seen by his peers as an oddball"

Which is a person like millions and millions of others in the US. Except for the Muslim part.

Paco Wové said...

Has any ISIS "terrorist" (use whatever word you want to here) announced their intention to commit jihad in the West before doing so? This seems like a huge tactical error.

narciso said...

he cased a number of sites, both in person and online,

http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/19/lynch-shifts-blame-gun-shop-owner-didnt-give-us-anything-to-id-orlando-terrorist-video/?utm_campaign=thedcmainpage&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social

HT said...

Perhaps Loretta Lynch's saying that they will only release the edited portion is serving the FBI line that Mateen was not gay. While the liberal media says he is closeted, the conservative media just as strongly and widely says he was not. It's not like these two points of view aren't out there for everyone to see and reinforce their own positions with.

Who knows anything.

mockturtle said...

Just as the 9/11 terrorists went on a strip-club spree prior to their act of terror, I believe Mateen, who probably had some bisexual leanings, dabbled in the gay bar scene.

themightypuck said...

This is the canary in the coal mine. Lynch is completely in the tank and is nothing but a political actor. Hillary indictment chance just hit zero.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

NBC news reported that Mateen's father and wife have been placed on the "no fly" list. Odd, if Mateen is just a mass murderer motivated by his hatred of gays - why place the family on the no fly list?

HT said...

Link?

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/feds-add-orlando-gay-club-shooter%E2%80%99s-father-wife-to-no-fly-lists/ar-AAhdXeL

Original Mike said...

"Who knows anything."

We know the Obama Administration is hiding the killer's statements and we know they want to downplay the culpability of Islam. Seems pretty simple to me.

JAORE said...

Let's see Mateen should never have been able to get a gun because o the no fly list that he was NOT on. Mateen should not have been able to get a gun because (at least) two reviews by the FBI led to the conclusion he wasn't a risk.
His frequent attendance at a Mosque with at least one other recognized radical, his trips to the Middle East, statements of acquaintances and co-workers that he was a militant Muslim, his clear pledge of allegiance to radical jihad all count for nought.

Rumors or statements by self-serving relatives that he hated gays (no connection to Islam there, no siree) or anti-hispanic .... THOSE, those are important.

Solution: Gun control-especially for those ever on the no-fly or other "bad" lists, soothing words of sorrow for the pain caused to the Muslim community.

And many, on the left, smile and nod.

narciso said...

by george I think you've got it, any second thoughts from the senators who confirmed her?

Michael K said...

"He fits the profile of the alienated, isolated loner MUSLIM who goes off on a killing spree."

FIFY

MadisonMan said...

A little more work and you could make a haiku out of that.

Lunatic Muslim
Shoots up Orlando Night Club.
Citizens Lose Rights.

It would be tempting to put this on my facebook status and challenge the commenters to reply in like form.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

All Law is provisional and contingent to the Left, Professor. It should not surprise you to hear that expressed by so senior an official--deep down most people on the Left believe it. (Of course rules they like are sacrosanct, naturally.)

Even the Constitution is infinitely flexible and malleable to the Left (they believe it can prohibit something it explicitly permits, and that it requires any number of things it does not mention, for example), so why should something as minor as simple laws or regular statutes trouble the Left or constrain their official actions in any way?

Hey, the country voted for it. What're ya gonna do?

mtrobertslaw said...

The narrative that the NRA was the sufficient and necessary cause of the Orlando shooting must be kept alive at all cost

Rusty said...

MadisonMan said...
A little more work and you could make a haiku out of that.

Lunatic Muslim
Shoots up Orlando Night Club.
Citizens Lose Rights.

It would be tempting to put this on my facebook status and challenge the commenters to reply in like form.

I'm stealing this.OK?

Bruce Hayden said...

The Administration got caught with their pants down again, and they are covering like crazy. This refusal to disclose his full 911 calls is just part of it. The shooter was an acknowledged home grown Muslim terrorist. Islam teaches against homosexuality, and in many Muslim countries, homosexuals are routinely murdered brutally. Shooter may have been a closet gay, trying to reconcile his feelings about other men with his Muslim religion, or may have been fascinated with what much of Islam considers western debachery in the form of the open celebration of a gay lifestyle. It doesn't really matter. What does is that the Holder/Lynch DoJ repeatedly screwed up in regards to this guy, and did so because he was Muslim. No different than with Ft Hood or San Bernadino. They intentionally ignored repeated warnings because of his religion and nationality, maybe the most recently having been when he tried to buy body armor. This is a pattern with the DoJ - people repeatedly warn about someone because they look more and more like a Muslm terrorist, willng to kill for their religion, the Administration intentionally ignores those warnings because the people being warned against are fundamentalist Muslims, and then they kill a bunch of people in the name of Allah. So, instead of fixing the problem, Lynch and her DoJ are hiding it, by excising this shooter's claims to have done his murders in the name of his Prophet.

damikesc said...

Why isn't the press going ballistic about the Executive Branch saying they will only hand out heavily edited transcripts of a news story?

Nixon was impeached for this stuff.

...oh, wait, forgot. We have a Democrat in the White House. Never mind.

Michael K said...

It is bizarre how far this administration will go to hide Muslim terrorism. It feeds the conspiracy theories about Obama as Muslim.

Why does he do this ?

I doubt they can prevent a leak of the rest of the transcript.

At least as interesting is the obsession of Democrats in following the twists and turns of his policy.

It reminds me of the communists in Hollywood when the Germans signed the non-aggression pact with the Soviets, then invaded two years later. There are a couple of books about the ridiculous twists in communists' declarations.

First, it was "The Yanks are not coming"

Then it was "Second Front Now !"

I think the Obama supporters could probably make that look easy.

damikesc said...

It is bizarre how far this administration will go to hide Muslim terrorism. It feeds the conspiracy theories about Obama as Muslim.

That's the whole thing. "He's not a Muslim". Got it. Don't care about his religion. He has managed to avoid churches well for his entire Presidency and amazingly missed a virulent racist preaching at the "church" he attended for "twenty years".

If he WERE one though, what, precisely, would he be doing differently than he is doing right now?

I doubt they can prevent a leak of the rest of the transcript.

Couldn't the FL Governor release it? The FBI, I don't think, was involved. I cannot figure out why the Dept of Justice thinks it has a role in this at all.

It reminds me of the communists in Hollywood when the Germans signed the non-aggression pact with the Soviets, then invaded two years later. There are a couple of books about the ridiculous twists in communists' declarations.

The tortured mental gymnastics were impressive.

EMD said...

"Are we living in the most dishonest times ever, or has it always been like this?"

Ask Walter Cronkite. Or that Duranty fellow.

gerry said...

They've released the call, un-redacted.