June 5, 2016

"So I guess the biggest takeaway is, yes, this election cycle is bizarre. But it's no more bizarre than the election in 1800..."

"... wherein Jefferson accused Adams of being a hermaphrodite and Adams responded by [spreading rumors] that Jefferson died, so Adams would be the only viable candidate. He was counting on news to travel slow! That, weirdly, gives me hope."

Said Lin-Manuel Miranda (creator of the very popular musical "Hamilton") in his Rolling Stone interview, which is also prominently quoted in Maureen Dowd's new column, "John Adams Was a Hermaphrodite?"

Dowd's column is mostly about Hillary's unlikability and Trump's wily fighting style. I'll just quote this, because it made me laugh (and it's arguably genitalia-related):
Trump speculated at his rally that Hillary might share sensitive information with her aide Huma Abedin who might share it with her husband, saying: “I know Anthony Weiner. I don’t want him knowing anything. And I never, ever want him to tweet me.”

So, of course, Weiner tweated [sic] immediately and incoherently: “Wait, is he talking to me. I’ll hit that guy with so many rights, he’ll be begging for a left.”
Anyway... did Jefferson say Adams was a hermaphrodite? I found this:
Jefferson's camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."

In return, Adams' men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father."

225 comments:

1 – 200 of 225   Newer›   Newest»
Ken B said...

So, no then he didn't. Why am I not surprised to find Rolling Stone unreliable?

rhhardin said...

The election cycle of 1800 didn't have the ridiculous collapse of social justice warriors.

It isn't the name-calling. It's the sand in the gears that marks this cycle.

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

Adams also called Jefferson "the unfortunate spawn of a mulatto father and a half-breed mother".

I don't know about Peter Jefferson, but the "half-breed" part was absolutely correct. Jefferson's mother was my Xgreat-grandfather's sister, and it was far from the last time that branch of my family intermarried with Mattaponi in Virginia.

West Texas Intermediate Crude said...

In 1800, the federal government had minimal to no direct effect on the lives of the typical American. Now, it's "3 felonies per day."
Now, from the time you get out of bed to the time you fall asleep, from the day you're born to the day you die, there is a Federal regulation for that. The air you breathe, the food you eat, the clothing you wear- there's a reg for that.
An argument can be made that, on balance, the regulations and laws are a positive influence.
In my opinion, that argument is getting more difficult to make, day by day, law by law, regulation by regulation. YMMV.
Any comparison between the Federal government of today and that of 2 centuries ago is valid only in the most superficial and trivial sense.

Michael K said...

Adams' son, President John Quincy Adams, could not be reached for comment about whether his father was half woman.

traditionalguy said...

Elizabeth Warren is a half breed that has a real chance.

Gahrie said...

The Election of 1800 was notable in a number of ways. It was our only election in which a sitting vice-president ran against a sitting president. The vice-president won.

It marked the first peaceful transfer of power between political opponents in the US. (Adams was a Federalist, Jefferson a Democratic-Republican [not related to either modern party])

It was the first election thrown into the House of Representatives. It also changed the way we elect presidents, leading to the 12th Amendment.

Hagar said...

Jefferson was an Old Republican.

The name Republican for the present Republican Party must have been a gibe at the Democrats for having lost their original "republican values."

The sequences are:
Anti-Federalist or Republican > Republican Democrat > Democrat.
and
Federalist > American Whig > Republican.

buwaya puti said...

They have barely started. Just wait.

Gahrie said...

Nope.

The election of 1824 split the Democratic-Republicans. This was the only party at the time, as the Federalists had completely collapsed. All four candidates in 1824 ran as Democratic-Republicans. In the 1828 election, the Jackson wing would form the Democratic Party. (The one that exists today) The Adams wing formed the National Republican Party. (This party would evolve into the Whigs, who were then defeated and replaced by the modern Republican Party.)

So the sequences are:

Democratic-Republicans -> Democratic Party

Democratic-Republicans -> National Republicans -> Whig

Republican Party

mockturtle said...

As Solomon wisely said, "..there is nothing new under the sun."

Gahrie said...

Let's see, a plain-spoken, out spoken candidate who responds fiercely to personal attacks, is seen as a dangerous and irresponsible demagogue, running as a populist response to entrenched party elites, that managed to kill a political party, form a new one and fundamentally transform the government.

Could Trump be the second coming of Andrew Jackson?

Fernandinande said...

Scott Adams is a lot older than expected.

mockturtle said...

Could Trump be the second coming of Andrew Jackson?

Having recently read a biography of Jackson, I had also seen a parallel.

Michael K said...

The Whigs pretty much collapsed over slavery. The Republicans had a lot of old Whigs but was a new party in 1854 with Fremont as the candidate.

Founded at Ripon, Wisconsin. March 6, 1854.

Bob Boyd said...

The American military, accustomed to fighting conventional wars with clear battle lines, had a challenging time adjusting to being opposed by guerilla tactics.
The Republican party has been fighting the political battle using a traditional ideological campaign against an opponent that is waging an asymmetrical cultural insurgency.
Trump has adopted the tactics of his opponents and is using them effectively. The old guard doesn't like it much. To them it is fighting dirty or something. They want the troops to stand honorably in rows and shoot volleys at one another.
Hopefully Trump won't turn out to be Colonel Kurtz.

Fred Drinkwater said...

So Weiner responds to Trump's "I know him and don't want him to tweet me" with "I'll punch him so many times".
This means the Republicans are the Party Of Violence, right? I mean, it's obvious, innit.
Sheesh. Weiner, what a maroon.

Comanche Voter said...

So Weiner dresses right. Glad to know that.

traditionalguy said...

Trump is acting out Jackson. Both are In a fight with an Establishment with deep ties to world's trade wealth and its Empires.

Both want to defend the USA from an elite that sells us out for money and position. This land is our land. They cannot take it.

Laslo Spatula said...

"John Adams Was a Hermaphrodite?""

I am surprised no one has wondered about which bathroom he would use in today's world.

Because men can use women's bathrooms, and women can use men's bathrooms, now.

As a Hermaphrodite he has reasons to use either.

Maybe not such a big issue back then.

It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world, Except for Lola.

I am Laslo.



Jeff Gee said...

Actually, Lola is pretty mixed up, muddled up, and shook up, too, these days.

Laslo Spatula said...

'Samuel, the Transsexual Alabama Slave.'

"Let me get this right, Samuel. You are now saying yourself is a woman?"

"Yes, Massah. I is a woman on the insides."

"But your outsides are that of a man, and a slave, which is what God in his Wisdom chose you to be."

"I ain't got no argument with God, Massah, I just is what I is."

"So what exactly does this mean for me? Can I still whip you?"

"Sure can, Massah. Whip away."

"So what is going to different?"

"Well, I wanna pick the cotton wit the women."

"But the women don't pick nearly as much cotton as the men slaves. Are you doing this just to be lazy, Samuel?"

"No, Massah, no! I never be lazy, you know that! I still be pickin' the cotton like I always do."

"Well..."

"Yes, Massah?"

"Wait a minute! This isn't because I sometimes have relations with the male slaves' backsides to relieve my glandular tensions?"

"No, sir. You can still put yourself up my backside -- you'll just be putting it up the backside of a woman, that's all."

"This is a lot to think about, Samuel."

"Ain't it ever, Massah, ain't it ever..."

I am Laslo.

mockturtle said...

Despite protests from the scholarly elite, Andrew Jackson was awarded an honorary Doctor of Laws degree from Harvard. After numerous speeches in Latin, Jackson was urged by his critics, who hoped to embarrass him for his lack of erudition, to do likewise. He arose and responded, apparently in good humor, "E pluribus unum. Sine qua non."

Like Trump, Jackson never pretended to be what he was not and his courage and self-confidence provided military leadership as well as popularity with the non-elite.

Curious George said...

"So, of course, Weiner tweated [sic] immediately and incoherently: “Wait, is he talking to me. I’ll hit that guy with so many rights, he’ll be begging for a left.”

That fucker has a twitter account? It's like giving Marion Berry a crack pipe.

mockturtle said...

BTW, Laslo....another masterful post. Or masterly post. Whichever.

mikee said...

That Weiner is still publicly speaking - and being listened to - should be a source of shame and deep thought to any serious person. If we all ignore him, maybe, just maybe, we can get on with better things in our lives.

William said...

FDR built the Jefferson Memorial on the mall as a counterweight to the Lincoln memorial. There was a time when the Democrats embraced the legacies of Jefferson and Jackson. Lately they have been distancing themselves from these two figures. Perhaps if it can be shown that Jefferson was descended from Africans and Indians, he can regain his rightful place in the Democratic Party. He did wear a wig while using the chamber pot so there's that in his favor.......Hamilton was said by his opponents to have had African blood. In his time it was considered a scurrilous rumor, but in our era it is repeated as a point in his favor.

Michael K said...

"Both want to defend the USA from an elite that sells us out for money and position."

I think there is a lot to this concept. Like FDR, Trump is a member of the elite.

It was interesting to me that non of the Republicans on the talking heads TV shows today defended Trump over his attack on the judge in the Trump U case.

But Alberto Gonzales did defend him.

An independent judiciary is extremely important. But that value is not the only one in play here. Equally important, if not more important from my perspective as a former judge and U.S. attorney general, is a litigant’s right to a fair trial. The protection of that right is a primary reason why our Constitution provides for an independent judiciary. If judges and the trials over which they preside are not perceived as being impartial, the public will quickly lose confidence in the rule of law upon which our nation is based. For this reason, ethics codes for judges — including the federal code of conduct governing Curiel — require not only that judges actually be impartial, but that they avoid even the “appearance of impropriety.” That appearance typically is measured from the standpoint of a reasonable litigant.

It is crucial to understand the real issue in this matter. I am not judging whether Curiel is actually biased against Trump. Only he knows the answer to that question. I am not saying that I would be concerned about him presiding over a case in which I was a litigant.


The judge is a member of a La Raza group.

Curiel is, reportedly, a member of a group called La Raza Lawyers of San Diego. Trump’s aides, meanwhile, have indicated that they believe Curiel is a member of the National Council of La Raza, a vocal advocacy organization that has vigorously condemned Trump and his views on immigration. The two groups are unaffiliated, and Curiel is not a member of NCLR. But Trump may be concerned that the lawyers’ association or its members represent or support the other advocacy organization. Coupled with that question is the fact that in 2014, when he certified the class-action lawsuit against Trump, Curiel appointed the Robbins Geller law firm to represent plaintiffs. Robbins Geller has paid $675,000 in speaking fees since 2009 to Trump’s likely opponent, Hillary Clinton, and to her husband, former president Bill Clinton.

I'm just curious why Gingrich or one of the others could not come up with this defense. Maybe they are all too PC ?

Hagar said...

It is the way Trump's mind works, he conflates "Mexican" and "La Raza," and he needs to be more careful to spell out exactly what he is talking about.

Change the terms and see what this is about:
Moshe Abramowitz cannot immediately object on the basis of "bias" just because the name of the judge assigned to his case happens to be Wolfgang von Halbenschwanz, but if there are pictures of His Honor marching with the Neo-Nazis in Skokie carrying a flag with the hakenkreuz, he has got a legitimate beef and can request a change in venue.

Michael K said...

"It is the way Trump's mind works, he conflates "Mexican" and "La Raza,"

He should make it clear that this is the reason he objects.

The others all condemned him and nobody I saw raised the La Raza matter.

If they are going to go on TV, somebody should brief them.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

If it were a black defendant in a lawsuit and the judge presiding was a member of a Sons of the Confederacy group, supported segregation of the races, and had affiliated himself with the KKK, does anyone think that the black defendant wouldn't have a right to challenge the judge for potential bias?

Of course not. The potential of bias due to association with groups that have a racial political composition, La Raza which means The Race, and the well known hatred of those groups toward Donald Trump is a very real thing. The judge doesn't appear to be impartial based on his associations. It is yet to be proven this is the case. Trump has every right to challenge the judge.

If Trump is precluded from challenging the judge on these facts as presented by Gonzales, then he would have a very good chance to appeal a negative decision.

Achilles said...

You guys are missing a big point of this election also. The republican party was never meant to win. It was supposed to be the Washington Generals. Now we have a nominee that actually wants to win.

Cue outrage.

Achilles said...

I also feel the need to define "win." That means actually change the way our government works and who it works for. Republicans manage to lose, I think on purpose, even after they win elections.

walter said...

So, of course, Weiner tweated [sic] immediately and incoherently: “Wait, is he talking to me. I’ll hit that guy with so many rights, he’ll be begging for a left."
--
What's incoherent about that? He wants to play tough guy after becoming a national punch line.
"Diggity!"

buwaya puti said...

La Raza Lawyers of San Diego is a member of La Raza Lawyers of California, which seems to be affiliated with the National Council of La Raza, and several other Hispanic/Chicano organizations. Their pages are linked from La Raza lawyers "links and affiliates" page. Also included are the Mexican American Legal Defense fund.
It seems fair to say they are one of an array of officially or unofficially allied groups. To say they arent is a bit disingenuous.

Char Char Binks said...

@William

Jefferson didn't wear a wig. Yeah buddy, that's his own hair.

Hagar said...

The most bizarre thing about the 1800 election is that it wound up in the House of Representatives due to an electoral college tie between Jefferson and Aaron Burr.
What would the U.S. be like to today if Burr had been elected?

MrCharlie2 said...

La Raza ~= KKK ?

The Cracker Emcee said...


"It is the way Trump's mind works, he conflates "Mexican" and "La Raza," and he needs to be more careful to spell out exactly what he is talking about."

Do liberals in similar circumstances? Or do they just shout "vast right-wing conspiracy" repeatedly? Trump is playing by their rules.

Char Char Binks said...

La Raza can mean "the race", or it can just mean "the people". It can be totally benign, just like when Nazis spoke of the "volk".

Hagar said...

La Raza is kooky, but is not equal to the KKK or the Neo-Nazis.
La Raza advocates for a mythical Erewhon that never was, while the KKK and Nazi evoke all to real historical entities.

mockturtle said...

Those who don't live in the SW section of the US may not be aware of the radical philosophies of La Raza. They are far from moderate.

Qwinn said...

Char char,

Spanish is my first language. La Raza means The Race. No one would use that term to mean "The People" in a generic sense, any more than they would use "The Race" to mean "The People" in english. La Raza is an explicitly and virulently racist organization. I'd think their behavior at the protests would make that fairly evident.

Sofa King said...

I’ll hit that guy with so many rights, he’ll be begging for a left.

Did he - did he just publicly use a Chuck Norris line from [I]Invasion USA[/I]? Anthony Wiener is one strange man.

Char Char Binks said...

@Qwinn

Some folks disagree with you, including Dictionary.com.

la raza

noun, (sometimes initial capital letters) Spanish.
1.
(used with a plural verb) Mexican Americans collectively.
2.
(used with a singular verb) Mexican-American culture.

mockturtle said...

It's what the La Raza members think it means, not the bloody dictionary.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The Spanish term La Raza translates as "the Race", Spanish raza having the meaning of "race, ethnicity; breed, strain, lineage". The term expresses ethnic or racial pride, and is used with somewhat different shades of meaning in Spain and in Hispanic America.

Quinn is correct. The race. It is a racially motivated organization. Like white supremacists organizations it is a racially radical group.

If you were a black guy on trial, do you want a judge who belongs to a white supremacist organization to be in charge of your fate? Why should Trump have to put up with it either.

mockturtle said...

I guess I would compare La Raza with the Black Panthers of the 60's. Some nice little public relations stunts like free kids' breakfasts and a whole lot of thuggery.

Meeeea said...

Qwinn, I don't think Char Char is from L.A. (Or the southwest for that matter.)

The dictionary. Lmao!

traditionalguy said...

Would it help to get real. The reason the Mexicans want to come here is not the climate or the food. It is the wealth generated here by a WASP culture. They want to take it.

La Raza is a Hispanic speaking group dedicated to grabbing control over a chunk of that wealth by taking control over its territory. The trouble with that is they DO INTENTIONALLY EXCLUDE WASPs from an equal shot because they proudly see our existence as the problem.

So Trump is acting as our leader and defending us from the exclusion from inside our own country. Hispanics have their own country called Mexico where we Anglos can be and are totally excluded from power and wealth.

The North American Union is Treason.

Meeeea said...

Michael K, I don't think Trump and Co. were aware of any potential conflicts until the sealed documents issue, which raised a red flag. That's when all this appears to have begun.

And man are they shredding Gonzales in WaPo comments, full bore Bush derangement syndrome in action. And on Instapundit, it is very curious that I called out a master diversionsist for billing their comment time to the case. Seems they stopped commenting. Should there be a post-settlement request for atty fees, I hope someone will try and match up all the cached comments by that person to the billables.

Unknown said...

Dowd says "After floundering, her campaign has now settled on a strategy of painting the mogul as unhinged and thin-skinned, which always really gets under his thin skin." And that from the Trump-loving and Hillary-hating Dowd.

The moniker and hashtag #CrazyDonald has started to rock on Twitter since Hillary's San Diego speech. The Crazy Donald has been framed.

You can argue which is better (or worse) - Crooked Hillary or Crazy Donald, but as the 3 pending fraud cases may well demonstrate, Crazy Donald is not squeeky clean.

Char Char Binks said...

@Meeeea

Only a fool would use a DICTIONARY to define a word!

Michael K said...

"What would the U.S. be like to today if Burr had been elected?"

If Hillary is elected we may find out. She is as corrupt as Burr was.

Michael K said...

"It is the wealth generated here by a WASP culture. They want to take it."

Yup. They and the rest of the left think rich people have a store room where the money is kept.

I've actually seen Bernie supporters say that he'll get the money from the "store of money the rich have."

They think it is a treasure room or something.

Unknown said...

"Could a Muslim Judge Be Trump Neutral? Trump Thinks Not
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/06/us/politics/could-a-muslim-judge-be-trump-neutral-trump-thinks-not.html

#CrazyDonald says that a federal judge cannot be Hispanic or Muslim as it would be a conflict of interest. Extrapolating, A judge probably couldn't be African-American or Asian either. In effect, they could only be white and preferably only of Scottish heritage (from his Mother's side) or German (from his Father's side).

Way to go #CrazyDonald.

buwaya puti said...

Also a native speaker of Spanish.
La Raza most certainly means "the race", and is not something a Spanish speaker outside Mexico would use. It is however not the same sort of racial distinction one thinks of with respect to European style scientific racism. La Raza is and always was a Mexican-nationalist piece of rhetoric, invented as a reaction to scientific racism - i.e., those guys can have scientific racism, we can have cultural-philosophical racism, so there. Rather a lightweight argument.
Its a Mexican-nationalist, or in the US, Mexican-origin tribalist concept, a zero-sum movement to grab more of the pie like most of these, monetizing agitation and government influence.
From what I can see it doesnt translate well at all to non-Mexican Hispanic groups.
It used to be part of a radical fringe with various Black Panther like affiliates, but since has become more of a good old boys network that mainly recruits in colleges. Its an important part of the Chicano political machine and does a lot of feeding at the government trough through its influence in the Democratic party.

mockturtle said...

Char Char, there is nothing wrong with dictionary definitions--they are, after all, usually definitive. The problem here is that the meaning is used in a specific way by a specific group, contrary to what the dictionary says and this is the meaning that is relevant to this issue. No offense was intended. :-)

Qwinn said...

Char char,

Sure, you can use a dictionary to define words. What puzzles me is that you think the dictionary definition backs up your position more than it does mine. Nowhere in that definition do I see "The Generic Population", as you seem to think it does. I see specific reference to "Mexican Americans collectively", though, which sure sounds like "The Race" to me.

buwaya puti said...

I think the whole La Raza thing has gone much too far, and has long since become counterproductive. The problem with that lot is their real goal was to get ahead in the US - jobs, rents, political positions - but they were using rhetoric of allegiance to a country they rejected. This is incoherent, and leads outsiders to the wrong conclusion. The absolute last thing they want is to turn parts of the US into Mexico, because they fled from that. The second and third generation have mostly lost their Spanish.
But Mexican nationalism-irredentism is what, by very loud implication, they say they want.
To reconcile this, at least academically, they say that they need the unity of the second point to achieve the goals of the first, because their enemies are so evil. I kid you not, thats the line taken in California high schools and colleges. But that argument itself alienates outsiders.
It will take a Trump figure to lay down the law here, to tell them to shit or get off the pot - are you Mexicans or Americans?

buwaya puti said...

The problem with definitions in dictionaries you need to be able to trust the definers. With politically loaded terms, you cant trust anyone.

Michael K said...

"Way to go #CrazyDonald."

Way to go crazy unknown.

You either are intentionally acting stupid or...

A La Raza judge would be a bit like the judge in the Prop 8 marriage case in California who ruled the proposition was unconstitutional and then married his gay lover.

Char Char Binks said...

@mockturtle, @ Qwinn and @Meeeea

I only used dictionary.com because I can't seem to post links here. There are plenty of web articles that back up what I said, as do most of the comments here that followed mine, despite what the commenters imply.

It's true, I'm not from the southwest, but mi familia es Mexicana, sort of, in a roundabout way, by marriage, and I learned the meaning of "la raza" de buena tinta.

I think you people are misunderstanding my comment, anyway. It's like a Kinks song, full of ambiguity.

Char Char Binks said...

And so is Lola.

mockturtle said...

@buwaya
The second and third generation have mostly lost their Spanish.

Not everywhere. In some parts of southern Arizona, with which I am very familiar, Spanish is still spoken as the primary languages. In some Walmarts, there are employees who don't speak English and the messages over the PA system are often in Spanish. Young mothers speak to their children in Spanish, as well. It is very difficult to get a job in some areas of Arizona if you don't speak Spanish.

mockturtle said...

BTW, Char Char, if you ever find out how to post a link, let me know. I don't know, either. ;-)

Hagar said...

A century or so ago it was not unusual to speak of the "Chinese race" meaning the population of China proper, the"yellow races" including the Japanese, Mongols, etc., and then, of course, the Churchillian "island race" meaning the Brits and especially the English.

I think "La Raza" is meant to intentionally blur the distinction between our native born "Mexican" citizens and the more recent arrivals, especially those who entered illegally.

Qwinn said...

For the record, Obama's Justice Department is letting Bank of America pay off its mortgage settlement at a rate of $1 for $2 if it gives the money to La Raza.

Which is full blown treason.

Char Char Binks said...

I'm not sure the irredentism of La Raza has any teeth.

eddie willers said...

creator of the very popular musical "Hamilton"

Proves that minstrel shows are still boffo.

buwaya puti said...

Of course their irredentism hasnt any teeth. Its tribal signalling, nothing else. Bullshit for effect. However, the message goes to everyone, not just the people they intend it for. Those other people draw different conclusions. The La Raza types havent figured out the problem yet.

virgil xenophon said...

Unknown@1:54pm unintentionally makes a salient argument for halting ALL immigration--illegal and legal--as well as repatriating all illegals, i.e., history shows balkanized societies never work very well--if at all. When the US was comprised of 90%+ whites (however culturally defined) and a smattering of blacks such dilemmas as unk suggests would never occur. Culturally homogeneous societies like Japan, Sweden (before the Muslim invasion), etc., willingly support large safety net social structures and high education expenses because such outlays are seen as providing benefits to people like themselves who could be ones cousins. (The very LAST thing the Japanese Minister of Education worrys about--if he worrys at all--when he rolls out of bed every morning is whether he has the right racial "mix" in Japans schools.) And just look at the present schism in the Scandinavian countries and the rest of Europe over the level of financial outlays going to the Muslim "refugees" now in their midst.

Or how about the latest work by Harvard sociologist Robert Putnam ("Bowling Alone") which shows (much to the chagrin of the multi-culti community) that the more diverse an American community is, the more divided and suspicious it becomes, unwilling to cooperate with people not like themselves? ("they act like turtles, pulling into their shells") Need I add that because of his findings Putnam is no longer the Darling of the leftist multi-culti academic world?

HALT ALL immigration--illegal AND legal--NOW!!

virgil xenophon said...

***worries v "worrys:----YIKES!!

Saint Croix said...

The La Raza stuff is a classic bait and switch.

I do not think the judge in the Trump University case is a racist who hates white people. Not on the say-so of somebody who did the Trump University scam.

Donnie playing the race card, all the time, is ugly and stupid and ultimately counter-productive. Sure, you can win an election that way. Ask Obama! But you also inspire riots and violence.

Gahrie said...

I think you people are misunderstanding my comment, anyway. It's like a Kinks song, full of ambiguity

Until you watch how La Raza members and supporters behave and listen to them talk.

mockturtle said...

There have been restrictions and moratoria on immigration in the US throughout our history.

Gahrie said...

I'm not sure the irredentism of La Raza has any teeth.

You don't live in the southwest do you?

buwaya puti said...

But the article you cite is wrong, St. Croix.
These La Raza organizations cross affiliate. This is an old boys network. The San Diego org is part of the California org, which does cite NCLR as an allied organization. Its right there, check it out.
And besides that, every one of these is a solid part of the Democratic party coalition.
The Redstate article is disingenuous. It pretends they havent followed California politics for the last few decades.

Saint Croix said...

Does this not ring a bell for anybody? He's yelling "racism!" Why? Money, of course. He's making false allegations of racism, intentionally, because of his greed.

Donald Trump learned this game from Al Sharpton. They are two peas in a pod. Ethically challenged and greedy assholes who use and play the race card all the time, for their own benefit.

I would not vote for Al Sharpton, and damn if I'm going to vote for his white doppelganger.

Gahrie said...

I think "La Raza" is meant to intentionally blur the distinction between our native born "Mexican" citizens and the more recent arrivals, especially those who entered illegally.

Perhaps.

Cesar Chavez condemned them as racists and compared them to Hitler.

buwaya puti said...

Gahrie, if Trump were to, I dont know, propose legislation that said that any border county could secede and join Mexico on a majority vote in a plebiscite, do you think even the idiots you refer to would approve? They would set a land speed record in back-pedaling.

n.n said...

The Democrat sanctioned minority leaders did not reject their homelands, but rather the native structures that deprived them of power, wealth, and status. The dreams of their fathers were about reestablishing an order in a new land for their benefit. It was not about assimilation and integration into established communities in advanced societies.

That said, the dreams of a minority are not representative of the majority. However, the class diversity (e.g. racism, sexism) policies in liberal societies has promoted prejudice through a parasitic process.

buwaya puti said...

You are all Al Sharpton now. Its all tribal warfare, and you will eventually join a powerful tribe, not because someone is making you join, but because the others will drive you there.
Humpty Dumpty is broken, and no glue is going to work.

buwaya puti said...

Cesar Chavez went crazy when he suddenly started making a lot of money from people who didnt really care a rats ass about farmworkers. I dont think he could reconcile these things and it affected his sanity.

Miriam said...

What is bizarre is the willingness of the right wing base to dump their principles to follow a man who is neither a conservative, nor a libertarian. What is bizzare is the obvious blindness to the unstable nature he possesses. What is bizarre is the acceptance of his very vocal plans to put into place policies are are blatantly unconstitutional. This guy will make Obama look like a light weight when it comes to usurpation of the executive branch. Are you people willing to take a chance with someone who has broadcasted his own unsuitability to be the leader of the most powerful nation on earth? If so, that is what is truly bizzare

mockturtle said...

Gahrie, if Trump were to, I dont know, propose legislation that said that any border county could secede and join Mexico on a majority vote in a plebiscite, do you think even the idiots you refer to would approve? They would set a land speed record in back-pedaling.

Which is a good argument for our taking over Mexico. The advantages of US governance and economy [and benefits] without having to emigrate.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

BTW, Char Char, if you ever find out how to post a link, let me know. I don't know, either. ;-)

How to post a link. Start with <a href=" Paste your link with the quotation marks at the beginning and end of the link. Close this portion of it with > then type the text that you want to turn blue acting as the link. Then close the whole thing with /a between two of these thingies <> </a>

You will not understand the La Raza movement and how radical it is if you do not live in the areas where they are prevalent and strong. Straight up racists.

buwaya puti said...

Miriam,
Desperate times call for desperate measures, which requires thinking outside the box.
Perhaps you would care to propose some solution?
It would be interesting to hear what you suggest.

buwaya puti said...

The last thing you want is to take over any part of Mexico. It would instantly turn into a never-ending drain. It would be as bad as Puerto Rico, which frankly you should have gotten rid of a hundred years ago. You all dodged a lot of bullets by getting rid of the Philippines.

virgil xenophon said...

Further notes on race:

It is a well-known and established fact that there is a societal tipping-point when whites and blacks and/or Mexicans/"Hispanics" are involved. Anytime a neighborhood or school system approaches the one-third minority mark, whites flee in droves, leaving only those whites who cannot financially afford to move quickly leading to an 80-95% minority presence. And there are very real-world reasons to do so. Property values automatically go south causing real financial loss; physical disruptive behavior by minorities in the class-room degrades the educational experience of white children, etc. And whites are not alone. Black middle and upper-class professionals and business-owners flee association with the black under-class and Mexicans in general as well.

mockturtle said...

Thanks, DBQ!

Saint Croix said...

You are all Al Sharpton now. Its all tribal warfare, and you will eventually join a powerful tribe

What are you, the Aryan Brotherhood guy at Sing Sing? I am not threatened by brown people, black people or yellow people. They have different pigment. So what. I do not care.

Miriam said...

Puti,
As a non citizen of a country that you've lived in for a long long time ( by your own statements) I think that you should put your money where your mouth is so to speak and either become a citizen or shut up and move elsewhere. I recall that you have said you may not even retire here in this country. Don't use our country for your gain and then then attempt to tell us how to run it, without respecting it enough to become a citizen. You have no right to tell any US citizen what measures to take regarding their own country.

Gahrie said...

What is bizarre is the willingness of the Left wing base to dump their principles to follow a man who is neither a Democrat, nor a progressive.

Fixed that for you.

Char Char Binks said...

@Miriam

That's ridiculous. Not everybody has to become a citizen.

Saint Croix said...

Virgil, B.P., anybody.

How many "races" do you think there are?

And you might want to think about sex and human reproduction before you answer this question.

virgil xenophon said...

"...you all dodged a lot of bullets..."

Probably so, tho I would point out that the most productive and progressive part of Mexico, the city of Monterrey and its environs--the whole state, really--would join the US as a State in a heart-beat as all they ever see from Mexico City is never-ending taxes and no services in return..

buwaya puti said...

To correct virgil x-
From long experience in private and public schools, as an active parent-
Mexican kids arent really disruptive in class.
They are rather well behaved on the whole, though a very large percentage have absolutely no interest in school.
They CAN be successfully educated in K-12, Jaime Escalante did it and it was no fluke, it was a system.
The biggest real problem is that Mexicans vote for liberals, who entrench white progressives to screw things up, massively. Thats who got rid of Escalante, just as one example.

Miriam said...

Char Char, you are right. He doesn't need to become a citizen if he doesn't want to. But he cannot tell a US citizen how to run their own country with any sort of credibility if he doesn't have enough seriousness to become a citizen of a country he acts like he knows how to run. He is full of advice for a country he has no desire to become a citizen of. He loses my respect.

mockturtle said...

@buwaya The last thing you want is to take over any part of Mexico. It would instantly turn into a never-ending drain. It would be as bad as Puerto Rico, which frankly you should have gotten rid of a hundred years ago. You all dodged a lot of bullets by getting rid of the Philippines.

Like Puerto Rico?? I think not. Mexico has huge natural resources, beautiful coastlines and hardworking people. Properly governed, drug lords defeated, it would be an asset. It should be incorporated into the US proper rather than made a protectorate, like PR. PR is an island, sharing no border with the US. Like Hawaii. We could ditch Hawaii as our 50th state and replace it with Mexico. :-)

Hagar said...

For the record, Obama's Justice Department is letting Bank of America pay off its mortgage settlement at a rate of $1 for $2 if it gives the money to La Raza.

This is another thing that burns me. This is the settlement that Bank of America has had to make for the activities of Countrywide and Merrill-Lynch, firms that Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke browbeat BofA to take on after the big bubble burst.
The same goes for Wells Fargo and the firms that bank was made to take over.

So this is
1. Paying off the banks for taking on these rascally firms and saving their sorry butts.
2. Laundering money contributions to favored advocacy movements.
3. Keeping the banks from going public with any sentiments that might cost them more money.

Gahrie said...

That whole post deserves an answer.

What is bizarre is the willingness of the right wing base to dump their principles to follow a man who is neither a conservative, nor a libertarian.

I have already pointed out that much of the Democratic base are supporting a man who is not a Democrat or a progressive. The rest are supporting a corrupt 1%er who makes millions through crony capitalism and political corruption. Hillary is everything the Democrats always accuse the Republicans of being.

What is bizzare is the obvious blindness to the unstable nature he possesses.

No less bizarre than ignoring the evil and corruption of Hillary, or the obvious communist beliefs of Bernie.

What is bizarre is the acceptance of his very vocal plans to put into place policies are are blatantly unconstitutional.

Have you been paying attention the last 7 1/2 years? The Left has been celebrating the unconstitutional actions of Obama.

This guy will make Obama look like a light weight when it comes to usurpation of the executive branch.

That's the first thing you have said that I could agree with. This possibility is what scares me about Trump. Obama, and to a lesser extent Bush, have seriously weakened the separation of powers..which provides an opportunity for someone else to be even more abusive.

Are you people willing to take a chance with someone who has broadcasted his own unsuitability to be the leader of the most powerful nation on earth?

Trump, despite his flaws, is no more unsuitable to be president than either Hillary or Bernie. Both parties (all three if you include the Libertarians) are giving us shit sandwiches this time around.

If so, that is what is truly bizzare

I'd see a professional about that mote in your eye.

buwaya puti said...

Miriam,
I like to think I am much like that famous Frenchman De Toqueville, who has long been required reading on the subject of the United States. What such as we bring to the table is perspective. This can be upsetting, because it is unfamiliar, but Im sure a strong mind can deal with it.
Or for that matter any number of Americans, travellers and expats (there really have been huge numbers of these fellows, who made a living abroad) who have freely given advice, good and bad, on the policies of various foreign countries, both of mine included (I am a citizen of both Spain and the Philippines). So, at minimum, I think turnabout is fair play.

n.n said...

Jefferson described Adams as transgendered homosexual, crossover, etc., which is attributed to orientation, not physiology. Apparently, transgender spectrum disorder is a progressive condition in advanced states of liberalism, which historically precedes the collapse or appropriation of a civilization. The promotion of reactive parenthood, clinical cannibalism, reproductive prostitution, etc. were also endemic to deteriorating population centers.

---

Race, in the class diversity sense, is correlated with reproductive couples and their Posterity. A more meaningful definition would consider correlation with moral and natural orientations and behaviors. This definition is supported by the success of universal religions (e.g. Christianity) to guide and unite people with a common outlook.

Gahrie said...

How many "races" do you think there are?

There are at least three, and perhaps four.

There are at least three and maybe four distinct genetic populations of humans. In the other animals we call these groups sub species. So, even though a Siberian Tiger and a Bengal tiger can mate, they are still considered to be different animals. Hell, a Tiger and a Lion can mate, and they are definitely different animals. There is genetic evidence that modern humans interbred with at least two different types of extinct hominids.

Race is merely the way we refer to genetic sub species of humans.

Miriam said...

Puti, I'm sure the Spaniards and the good folks in the Phillipines will be grateful for all your good advice on how to run those two lovely countries. As a US citizen I don't appreciate you saying that is country needs desperate measures like those of a despot like Trump. That sounds to me like you don't have the best interests of this country in mind.

Gahrie said...

He is full of advice for a country he has no desire to become a citizen of. He loses my respect.

I suggest you pay a little more attention to those anti-Trump rioters in the southwest. You have just described most of them.

mockturtle said...

There is only one race, really, with varying physiological and cultural differences. Whether one believes in evolution or creation, we all stemmed from a common female, per our mitochondrial DNA.

buwaya puti said...

Why not?
Plenty of Americans at various times saw fit to tell the peoples of Spain and the Philippines of the need for despetate measures. Indeed, I believe thats the message Commodore Dewey was trying to put across, first with cannon as he shot at some relatives of mine, and later as his flagships band played "La Paloma" to serenade the city he was besieging. My great grandfather and several great uncles were defending the walls thereof at the time, and no doubt appreciated Deweys gracious gesture.
You give us advice, I give you advice. Fair is fair.

Saint Croix said...

There are at least three, and perhaps four.

oh, wow, science!

what are the three, maybe four?

Char Char Binks said...

Everybody has free speech rights. I see no reason to try to silence or bully buwaya puti at all.

Gahrie said...

what are the three, maybe four?

There is the most pure genetic lineage, which is centered on Africa. This population is the most purely "human" with no or little genetic inbreeding with other hominids.

There is a second lineage that interbred with Neanderthals that is centered on Europe and Asia.

There is a third lineage that interbred with both Neanderthals and a second hominid (starts with a 'D", I always spell it wrong...Denisovians?) that is centered on islander populations, such as the Australian aborigines.

Michael K said...

"What is bizarre is the willingness of the right wing base to dump their principles "

No, what is really bizarre is a group of putative Republicans who want to lose an election rather than take a chance on a successful businessman.

This is all about pulling the cord to stop the train, that is about to go over a cliff. What comes next is less important.

Trump is maybe Danton. Robespierre is waiting for his chance. You want to give it to him.

Saint Croix said...

Miriam, if Donald Trump told B.P. to shut up and go home, what would you say?

Gahrie said...

Trump is maybe Danton

Does that make Sanders Blanqui?

Saint Croix said...

There is the most pure genetic lineage, which is centered on Africa. This population is the most purely "human" with no or little genetic inbreeding with other hominids.

I have to say I'm a little surprised that you went with African as having the most humanity.

But okay!

There is a second lineage that interbred with Neanderthals that is centered on Europe and Asia.

Europeans are Neanderthals?

Are you sure?

buwaya puti said...

Trump, I am glad to say, has no hold on me. I have "anchor children" after all. And my wife may also object, but I may have to be extra good.

buwaya puti said...

Certainly, Neandertals.
My wife just got her genetic test, and I'm waiting on mine. She was a bit under 1% Neandertal. Based on my Basque ancestors I give myself good odds of beating that.
Try it, it's fun.

Gahrie said...

I have to say I'm a little surprised that you went with African as having the most humanity.

Why?

Europeans are Neanderthals?

You have very poor reading comprehension skills.....Europeans are descended from humans who interbred with Neanderthals....which makes them a sub species, or race, of humans.

Meeeea said...

Hagar@3:39, and now Wells Fargo is a sponsor for the Natiinal Council of La Raza's "lideres" summit:
http://lideresummit.nclr.org

Miriam said...

Saint Croix,

Puti thinks Trump is the answer to America's problems. If Trump told him to shut up and go home, I'd say Trump finally came to his senses. I have absolutely no problem with those non citizens who have the best interests of the nation they chose to live in at heart. I don't think Puti does, I think it amuses him to meddle in the affairs of this country to its detriment, as opposed to advancing it. He thinks he knows how to run this country and is often full of advice which is most often very bad.

Gahrie said...

Are you sure?

I assure you nothing I have written concerning distinct genetic populations of humans is considered controversial, or under significant challenge, among scientists dealing with human genetics.

Gahrie said...

I think it amuses him to meddle in the affairs of this country to its detriment, as opposed to advancing it. He thinks he knows how to run this country and is often full of advice which is most often very bad.

You have again described a significant portion of the Democratic base, and even larger portion of Democratic activists.

buwaya puti said...

Like I said, NCLR and the whole hive of related organizations are part of the "family".
These Presidential elections aren't about one candidate, but all their million+ friends and associates.

Gahrie said...

@Miriam

Get back to me when puti starts burning the American flag, advocating the theft of significant portions of American territory, and assaulting American citizens for exercising their constitutional rights.

buwaya puti said...

Yes, it is amusing. As Shiloh says, perfectly accurately, we are just amusing each other here.
I will leave politics to the kids. I have been in one revolution already, and one is enough. You don't want to make a habit of it.

Miriam said...

Char Char, Puti has the right to speak here, the same as you or I. I get to point out he loses credibility by refusing to become a citizen of a country he has so much advice for. I worked with a woman from India who lived here with her son and husband for many years and had a very good life. She said if her son would ever be drafted into the US military, they'd move back to India. How is that respectful of a country that took you in and gave you a good life? I love that this country opens it's arms to refugees and immigrants, but I don't appreciate it when those who benefitted from our generosity disrespect the country. I say with immigration comes responsibility to your adopted nation.

Char Char Binks said...

Were Neanderthals a race, or a social construct? Is it settled science?

Gahrie said...

but I don't appreciate it when those who benefitted from our generosity disrespect the country. I say with immigration comes responsibility to your adopted nation.

You know what...most Americans agree with you...and that is why so many are supporting Trump despite his flaws.

Miriam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gahrie said...

Were Neanderthals a race, or a social construct?

Neither. They were a separate animal. Think Lions and tigers.

Is it settled science?

Very.

Miriam said...

"You have again described a significant portion of the Democratic base, and even larger portion of Democratic activists."

Of course Gahrie, I think you have it backwards, but then again, you're a rightist/ regressive

Gahrie said...

Of course Gahrie, I think you have it backwards, but then again, you're a rightist/ regressive

Really?

Please point out to me examples of rightwing activism in which the rightwing burns American flags, demands the secession of American territory to a foreign government and assaults Americans for exercising their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly.

Michael K said...

"Does that make Sanders Blanqui?"

Different revolution but he is not far from Sanders except Sanders is more like one of Orwell's Socialists.

The typical Socialist is not, as tremulous old ladies imagine, a ferocious-looking working man with greasy overalls and a raucous voice. He is either a youthful snob-Bolshevik who in five years’ time will quite probably have made a wealthy marriage and been converted to Roman Catholicism; or, still more typically, a prim little man with a white-collar job, usually a secret teetotaller and often with vegetarian leanings, with a history of Nonconformity behind him, and, above all, with a social position which he has no intention of forfeiting.

buwaya puti said...

Miriam,
Consider that I am exercising my right to reparations for historic wrongs, just as the NCLR claims, in their case, in order to justify their otherwise frivolous and whimsical positions.
It's just that my methods of collection cut in a different direction, which is reasonable as I come from a much, much smaller minority.
If the NCLR and it's myriad allies are justified, then so am I.

Miriam said...

Neither Clinton nor Sanders advocates such behavior, unlike Trump who calls for violence to protestors at his rallies. If Trump isn't responsible for the nuts at his rallies, neither is Clinton or Samders responsible for the nuts outside Trump rallies.

buwaya puti said...

Consider that you are getting off cheap, simply by tolerating my annoying you. We lot could go for reparations you know. Maybe an alphabet soup activist group to hand favors to. Thank us, for our forbearance.

mockturtle said...

Is it settled science?

No.

Gahrie said...

Neither Clinton nor Sanders advocates such behavior

Perhaps..but the point I was making is that the behavior is only coming from one side...the Left.

The only time that either Bernie or Hillary have had their rallies disrupted, it was by other Leftwing agitators.

Gahrie said...

Is it settled science?

No.


Citation please.

Saint Croix said...

I assure you nothing I have written concerning distinct genetic populations of humans is considered controversial, or under significant challenge, among scientists dealing with human genetics.

It's idiotic.

We breed and have babies. There are no "distinct genetic populations of humans." Your dreams of racial purity are retarded. It was retarded in the 20th century, and the 19th.

If you have sex with a woman, and she gets pregnant, congratulations, you had sex with a human being.

We're all mutts.

mockturtle said...

Gahrie, we could each cite references until we were both blue in the face. What some call 'settled science' today will be turned on its head in the future, as is most 'settled science'.

mockturtle said...

We're all mutts.

So true! Does anyone require citation?

Miriam said...

Now you want reparations Puti, for what? The Spanish American war? Were any Filipinos made slaves by the US? What type of reparations does the NCLR seek? Did you mean the NAACP? I'm not aware of any NCLR demand for reparations. Please enlighten me. I honestly don't know of any such demand.

Gahrie said...

Your dreams of racial purity are retarded

Again, your reading comprehension skills are extremely poor. The genetic subgroups are caused by a lack of "racial purity" and the race that is the most "pure" is the one I would be expected to discriminate against. My race is the product of hybridization.

If you have sex with a woman, and she gets pregnant, congratulations, you had sex with a human being.

Nothing I have written contradicts this. I have never made the claim that the different races aren't all modern humans.

Gahrie said...

We're all mutts.

Oh..you mean like dogs are mutts because different breeds (genetic populations) of dogs have interbred?

I agree.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
narciso said...

Actually if one reads the great upheaval, one finds the whole host of revolutionaries that brought the terror, danton, robespierre, marat, were premature sjws. this is where it ends up,

buwaya puti said...

Well, let's see, we are a forgiving lot, so I don't have a checklist handy.
The NCLR certainly does want reparations, granted in their case by government jobs, the BofE set-aside mentioned above and a host like it, preference in university admissions, business loans, Minority owned business contracts preferences, and etc. ad infinitum.
No, my people are the mestizo-Spanish residents of Manila, once long ago a distinct cultural group, with our own dialect, our own literature, our own government sinecures, and etc. Consider us an urban tribe, whose culture was erased by American cultural imperialism. There are few of us left that have retained all that. Some days I feel like Ishi the last Miwok or whatever he was.
And then there is all that invading and besieging, but let bygones be bygones.
The really bad thing is you Americans, having taken the place, and failed to leave in time for the locals to make their own arrangements (most likely safely surrendering, like the Thais), irresponsibly failed to properly defend it at the time you got yourselves into a war with Japan. Let's say that a good portion of our people didn't survive that, seeing as our home was flattened, and over time that was the death blow to my kind.
But, like I said, we are forgiving sorts, and will merely annoy you instead of doing something nasty like becoming Democrats.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Char Char Binks said...

mockturtle said...
Here is an interesting piece on Pushkin's genealogy, with which most of us are familiar...

That's right, I'm ALL ABOUT Pushkin's genealogy!

mockturtle said...

I'm trying to re-post the link but I'll just provide the web address:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/pushkingenealogy.html

Gahrie said...

Your dreams of racial purity are retarded.

I know..right?

Good thing I didn't start a movement called White Lives Matter, and call people racist when they insisted that all lives matter.

Good thing I didn't start a movement called The Race that was dedicated to promoting the interests of only White people. Or the National Association of White People. Or the United European College Fund.

Because that would make me a racist.

Miriam said...

Puti, so you basically are admitting that you give out bad advice on how to run this country as some sort of revenge or "reparations" for the wrongs America has done to your people? Well that's gratitude for all the benefits that America has given you all these years, huh? I'm glad we all know where you stand now, that makes it easier to reject your very bad advice, thanks.

Saint Croix said...

I agree.

You agree? You only have three races! You identify a land mass, Africa, as a pure race of people. Because there's no genetic distinctions in Africa!

You identify another land mass, Europe, as a hybrid race, different from the pure race of Africa. Everybody in Europe is the same race! Snort.

And then you go, oh yeah, and the Aborigines. And you've classified humanity.

You left off Asia, I think that would be a problem. Another land mass! With people on it! Who do not look like the Africans or the Europeans.

But the main problem, of course, is sex and reproduction.

What is Obama in your "science"? Is he pure race or hybrid race?

And what is La Raza?

mockturtle said...

The fact that black 'blood' was well mixed with white throughout history, not just in the example of Pushkin, disputes any myth about racial purity. Even the Japanese are not racially 'pure'.

Culture and cultural purity is really where the proverbial rubber meets the road.

Gahrie said...

Could you imagine the cries of racism if I got a law passed that gave White people an advantage in getting government jobs, admitted to college and college loans....

I could call it Corrective Action, and justify it as a response to the government and colleges discriminating against me based on the color of my skin for decades.

narciso said...

well the us gave the phillipines independence, was it in 46, although the bell bill was earlier, some dependency theorists would say that was a sham, but then so are most dependency theorists, as it stands now it will probably become a protectorate of china,

buwaya puti said...

Heh,
I'm not giving bad advice, I am merely (inadvertently, but Ill take what I can get) annoying you. Hence the extra sarcasm. Consider yourself honored, you have drawn a special role as a civic duty, you get to pay off part of the reparations!

Gahrie said...

Really Saint Croix...I would sue your High school and English teachers, and your university too if you attended one. Your comprehension skills are atrocious.

You identify a land mass, Africa, as a pure race of people. Because there's no genetic distinctions in Africa!

No..I said that there is an identifiable genetic population centered in Africa, and that this population is the most genetic pure. I said absolutely nothing about genetic variation within that population.

You identify another land mass, Europe, as a hybrid race, different from the pure race of Africa. Everybody in Europe is the same race!

Nope..again I said there is a genetically identifiable population centered in Europe and Asia that is indeed a hybrid or sub species of the African population.

And then you go, oh yeah, and the Aborigines. And you've classified humanity.

Not just the Aborigines...but close.

You left off Asia,

No, I didn't.

Who do not look like the Africans or the Europeans.

Now who's being racist? The genetic subgroups are based on genetics not appearance.

But the main problem, of course, is sex and reproduction.

Why? I have stated that humans interbred with other hominids..why wouldn't we interbreed with each other?

What is Obama in your "science"? Is he pure race or hybrid race?

Definitely a hybrid individual. Races are comprised of more than one member.

And what is La Raza?

We're back to your reading skills again. Go back and reread the thread, slowly this time, and ask somebody about the words you don't understand.

buwaya puti said...

The US could have dumped the place anytime after@ 1914 when it decided it didn't want it. It was sheer incompetence and irresponsibility that left it with a US garrison in 1941. That, as often pointed out by all sorts of people in the previous four decades, amounted to leaving a baited hook in the China sea. We were the bait. You caught your fish. The bait didn't do so well.

Miriam said...

Oh Puti, you have no idea about my own ethnicity or heritage. I will say this much, my family came here as immigrants, became citizens after six years which was the soonest as was legally possible. They expressed their gratitude to this wonderful country for taking them in and giving them the possibility of a good life until their dying day. You are ungrateful, which doesn't speak well of your intentions or character.

buwaya puti said...

Pushkin was one of a very small number. Purity is not a binary condition, or rather it is a fuzzy concept. Let's say purity for all practical purposes. I suggest you get a genome scan, they are quite cheap now and very instructive, and should clarify all sorts of concepts.

Saint Croix said...

Gahrie, I'm not calling you a racist. I'm calling you a racialist. Is that fair?

You think there is this scientific concept called race, a sub-division of humanity. Lots of people feel this way.

It's not true. It's bad science.

Start here.

buwaya puti said...

Did your parents then join an alphabet soup organization, demanding legal and financial benefits? No? That is the subject of this conversation.
My personal qualities, reprehensible mountebank that I am, are neither here nor there. That is indeed an argumentum ad hominem, properly speaking, even if your interlocutor is Satan himself.

Gahrie said...

You think there is this scientific concept called race, a sub-division of humanity

No..I think that there is a scientific awareness of three distinct genetic populations of humans that we popularly refer to as race. I am perfectly willing to use the same language we use for all of the other animals and call these populations sub species.

These populations are indeed subdivisions of humanity, exactly the same way Bengal tigers and Siberian tigers are subdivisions of tigers.

Miriam said...

No Puti, you said that America needs desperate measures and basically said that Trump would provide those measures, in so many words. I called you on your bad advice and duplicitous intentions.

buwaya puti said...

Races are fuzzy concepts but indeed discrete groupings, and over distance something of a gradient. I'm sure Razib Khan will give you all the math you could ever want.
On a population basis the genetic groupings are quite clear. There is some overlap but much less than one would think.
It's very dated in a fast growing field, but Cavalli-Sforza is a good place to start.

buwaya puti said...

Yes, it does need desperate measures.
This bothers you.
My revenge is complete.

Anglelyne said...

Saint Croix: There are no "distinct genetic populations of humans." Your dreams of racial purity are retarded. It was retarded in the 20th century, and the 19th.

There are identifiable and meaningful genetic differences among human populations, just as there are among any large enough population of animals whose members migrate to different environments and undergo selective pressure in those new environments. Humans evolve. If this upsets you I suggest you continue to limit yourself to the opinions of cultural anthropologists (like the one you linked) on the matter and stay well away from the unfiltered news about developments in human genetics.

You're the only one here babbling about "racial purity", SC. A knee-jerk response, I note, that you share with neo-Nazi dimwits.

(Yes, SC, Europeans, and East Asians, interbred with Neandertals and have Neandertal DNA. Sub-Saharan African populations do not. If you're going to get all het-up about human genetics, at least try to keep up with information and opinion a little more recent and informed than some chucklehead "I'm not PC" PC anthropologist citing, lol, Ashley Montagu.)

buwaya puti said...

I'm not sure Razib Khan or Cavalli Sforza would limit anything to three races. It's much messier than that. Do not start like that with R Khan, he doesn't tolerate stupid questions. Best if you just ask him for a good book as a primer.

Miriam said...

Puti,
What bothers me is that you feel you need to seek revenge against me for being an American and my adopted country, America. That's smacks of anti American sentiment and reeks of an ingrate. Just WHY are you here? Your revenge seeking makes you on par with La Raza.

buwaya puti said...

I am here to keep Americans from being stupid, again, and to seek out and exact my revenge on particularly stupid Americans, of course.
I am a discriminating avenger.
Also, to make money, raise children, and live in comfort.

narciso said...

of what I'm referring to,

https://bookpage.com/interviews/8420-jay-winik#.V1SyH7grLIU

they had just finished the pacification campaign, why would we have given it up, much like the mistake we made in iraq,

Miriam said...

LOL Puti. What arrogance. Worse than the Americans you so dislike.

Michael K said...

Gahrie, you are wasting your time with that person.

"Even the Japanese are not racially 'pure'."

Actually, the most "pure" group are the Amerindians who were isolated for 10,000 years. As a result, they had very poor tolerance for "Old World" diseases like smallpox and have a very small number of HLA types. They also have poor tolerance for alcohol due to largely being isolated from the brewing of starches into beer.

The migration from Africa resulted in white skin as Vitamin D synthesis required less sun screen from melanin. Africa is hot and sunny giving an advantage to pigment sun screen. Why some of us have blue eyes is still not understood but it seems to have one mutation in a common ancestor about 9500 years ago.

The same phenomenon is seen in Asia with lighter skin with more northern the population but blue eyes didn't happen in Asia.

The strongest environmental advantage was probably lactose tolerance after childhood and may have caused the Indo-Europeans to dominate. from the Baltic to the Indus River.

The information cascade is so rapid, I am just trying to keep up with a little bit of it. Medicine is going so fast into genetics that Hawaiian politicians are suing drug companies because some people have different tolerance to some drugs based on their genetics. That is pretty close to racial.

Plavix is an anti-clotting medication, used to prevent blood clots that can lead to heart attacks or strokes in certain patients. It only works once it is converted or metabolized into its active form (clopidogrel) by the liver enzyme CYP2C19.

But on March 19th, 2014, Hawaii Attorney General David M. Louie filed suit against the manufacturers of the popular drug Plavix®. Louie claims that the manufacturers knew and did not disclose that the medication would be ineffective or only partially effective in certain patient populations due to genetic variations.

Plavix is metabolized by the drug-processing enzyme CYP2C19. Certain genetic variations can affect the activity of this enzyme. Patients with these variations are at a higher risk of treatment failure or adverse drug events, even on a normal dose.


This stuff is moving so fast nobody can keep up without a full time effort.

narciso said...

the problem is in the mind arson, that is proffered through constructivist platforms, like common core, which is against the academic rigor that jaime escalante provided,

Saint Croix said...

I think that there is a scientific awareness of three distinct genetic populations of humans that we popularly refer to as race.

Gahrie, the popular conception of race is like this: white, black, red, yellow, brown. It's hopelessly unscientific. None of those categories are bound by anything. Human reproduction crosses those lines up, all the time.

You are attempting to ground this popular understanding of race in a scientific principle. Okay.

You talk about the pure race of Africa, and then you talk about the hybrid race of Europe/Asia, and then you talk about the Aborigines.

I asked you if Barack Obama was a hybrid. You said he was. Donald Trump's ancestors come from Europe, so he's a hybrid. Jackie Chan is from Asia, so he's a hybrid.

What you seem to be saying is that Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and Jackie Chan all belong to the same race, the hybrid race.

Yes? Or no?

Drago said...

Miriam: "Your revenge seeking makes you on par with La Raza."

I mean, without all the riots and physical assaults, of course.

Similar to how the Christians are on par with muslims, sans the beheadings, mass sexual assaults, throwing gays off of roofs, throwing acid in little girls faces simply because they go to school, mass executions, etc.

Otherwise, exactly on par.

This is what is known as "logic" on the left.

Miriam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Saint Croix said...

Anglelyne, how many races do you think there are?

Miriam said...

African Americans also have an increased intolerance for Ace Inhibitors. Incidents of Angioedema are much higher in the African ethnicity who take Ace Inhibitors.

Anglelyne said...

Saint Croix: You think there is this scientific concept called race, a sub-division of humanity. Lots of people feel this way.

It's not true. It's bad science.

Start here.


It's always a good idea to learn something about a subject before you start throwing around advice to others to "educate themselves" (as the SJWs say). You could do worse than take buwaya's advice - start with Razib Khan and Cavalli-Sforza. Tendetious hand-wringing articles (even if you find them on sites with "science" in the title) are not the best places for learning biology.

buwaya puti said...

Indeed, I am positively Satanic in my pride!
A model for Milton, unfortunately he never had the benefit of my aqaintance. Who knows where that could have gone.
Anyway, my character, or the lack thereof, is irrelevant. As is that of the rest of the demonic horde of Trumpists, or their allies, admirers, and fellow travellers.
Facts are facts, be they brought to your attention by Beezlebub or Michael the Archangel.
Because, you know, you can have a look for yourself. We Devils know a great deal about sins, being specialists in that line of course. Most of you lot, the Democrats, suffer from a few, notably indolence, being attracted to ease in their mental habits. If you would, I don't know, crack the Web pages of the St Louis Fed, or wherever actual facts and figures are for your current controversy, but no, you wont.

Gahrie said...

What you seem to be saying is that Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and Jackie Chan all belong to the same race, the hybrid race.

All three of them do belong to the same genetic population. I'll write it again..slowly this time...the....populatuions ...are ...based...on...genetics...not...appearance.

Paco Wové said...

"I think that you should put your money where your mouth is so to speak and either become a citizen or shut up and move elsewhere"

Who died and made you God, Amanda / Miriam / whatever you're calling yourself this month?

Personally, I find Buwaya's outsider insights uniquely valuable. It's too bad that your immigrant ancestors' bloodline culminated in an uneducated, incurious scold who just wants to shut up anyone who disagrees with her.

Saint Croix said...

How many races do you think there are, Anglelyne?

Miriam said...

Puti,
Bad facts are bad facts, those who chose to believe them do so at their own peril. Fortunately some of us Americans do think, do research and come to our own conclusions.

Saint Croix said...

All three of them do belong to the same genetic population.

Thanks!

I think so too.

Not sure Donnie would agree.

Fernandinande said...

Saint Croix said...
It's idiotic. [link]


No, you're ignorant.

Link sez: "Race is folk taxonomy, not science. The variables used to organize it, such as skin color and hair texture, are arbitrary choices."

False and false and false.

It's no coincidence that those "arbitrary choices", which aren't really arbitrary at all, enable "a nearly perfect correspondence between genetic cluster and SIRE for major ethnic groups living in the United States, with a discrepancy rate of only 0.14%."

Won't someone think of the Pygmies?

They have more genetic distance from every other population, including other Africans, than the other populations have between each other, so they should be considered a separate race. Maybe Aussie Abos, too, since they've been isolated from other populations for about as long as Europeans...but more isolated than Europeans.

Saint Croix said...

How many races do you think there are, Fernandinande?

Laslo Spatula said...

Saint Croix said...
Saint Croix said...
Anglelyne, how many races do you think there are?

I'll answer that.

White, and then the others.

That's two, basically.

Two is also the correct answer for how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

This two is also the 'other' two in 2 + 2 = 5.

Think of it as the younger brother of Pi.


I am Laslo.

David said...

"how many races do you think there are?"

Depends on the sport. NASCAR has billions it seems. Horse and Iron Horse? Only one that I know of.

If you mean types of humanoids, it depends on what standards you use. Biologically there is but one race, it seems. Politically and culturally we are pretty much like NASCAR. That includes the crashes, the fighting, the cheating and the screaming crowds.

Saint Croix said...

LOL, Laslo

Fernandinande said...

Michael K said...
Actually, the most "pure" group are the Amerindians who were isolated for 10,000 years.


Please insert 25 cents to play again.

Genetic Study Confirms Aboriginal Australians Have Been Isolated For 50,000 Years, and the Australians were more isolated than Amerindians and are also about 5% Denisovan.

Paco Wové said...

How many languages do you think there are, S.C.?

Just because things may not have neat, pat boundaries, does not make those things non-existent or unmeaningful.

chickelit said...

Miriam said...Oh Puti, you have no idea about my own ethnicity or heritage.

I'm guessing Rhineland-Palatinate with a Swabian tongue.

Stimmt das?

Hagar said...

Inga is back.
Please do not engage!

Fernandinande said...

Saint Croix said...
How many races do you think there are, Fernandinande?


Why did you ask that question right after you discovered your linked article was just nonsense?

Non-pygmy Africans,
Pygmies,
Europeans,
N.E. Asians,
S./S.E. Asians,
Melanesians,
Amerindians.

How many ethnicities are there? Are you asking that stupid "how many races" question because you think it'll prove that races don't exist unless everyone says the same thing?

gadfly said...

traditionalguy said...
Elizabeth Warren is a half breed that has a real chance. traditionalguy said...

Elizabeth Warren is a real breed that has a half chance. There you go! Fixed it for you!

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