June 7, 2016

"Should Western relationship norms be taught to migrants?"

"The BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme attended a controversial class in Norway that aims to teach asylum seekers how to interact with women...."
Preben Svendsen, who runs the refugee centre, does not think the classes stigmatised the men, as statistics show most rapes in Norway are not committed by migrants. "What we do is give them the most information possible about society they just arrived to, so they can be as successful as possible," he says. "It's not just about the training itself, it's about creating a good relationship with the people who live with us, so they can build trust, and if they have any challenges in the future they will hopefully have the confidence to come and ask us for advice if they need to."

The men say they do not feel patronised by the classes. "It's known in society that sexual violence is wrong. Any rational person knows that," one says. "The difference is that you guys talk about it, and we don't. So it's a good thing."...

41 comments:

MadisonMan said...

What is controversial about it? The BBC says it is controversial, but has no quote to back that up. Is it just some group of Perpetually Offended, somewhere, that complained about it?

The participants seem kinda laudatory about it.

David said...

I realize this is a serious topic but "Western relationship norms" is actually kind of funny. We have so many conflicting relationship norms that any immigrant would be tempted to run back to the home country if someone tried to teach them all.

"Normative" is one of my least favorite words. It's usually pretentious and also obscures rather than clarifying meaning. Note to migrants: you are stepping into a minefield. However, some of the mines are clearly marked. Avoid them, but don't think you have made it safely when you do.

n.n said...

Apparently, a case of statistics without consensus.

The difference is that liberals promote a confused gender paradigm, whereas it exists in that state as an exception outside of that ideological bent.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"statistics show most rapes in Norway are not committed by migrants"

Proportionately or totally? I love these kind of statements. They're deliberately misleading but "journalists" never question them.

madAsHell said...

They come for the girls. They stay for the welfare.
In more enlightened times, we called this rape and pillage.

Do you really think this behavior can be managed by a few classroom sessions?

Hagar said...

16.3% immigrants! And this happened within one lifetime - in fact, it is just within the last several years, isn't it?.

Less serious than the Middle East vs. Norway today, but 60 years ago, I can remember American GI's in Europe interacting with European girls who had never been exposed to anything like the American high school dating culture.

n.n said...

Actually, this nominal controversy reveals a larger problem where a failure of assimilation and integration into established nations and communities is actually encouraged. That, and the avoidance of discussing the consequences and advocates of anti-native policies, including the current refugee crises fostered by them.

EDH said...

"Was that wrong? Should I not have done that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorance on this thing, because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing is frowned upon... you know, cause I've worked in a lot of offices, and I tell you, people do that all the time."

traditionalguy said...

What is it about Mohammed's orders that Muslim Believers are not allowed to show respect to infidels except as a trick to set them up for pillage and murder, that the Scandinavians refuse to understand here?

Rick said...

statistics show most rapes in Norway are not committed by migrants.

The Standard of Proportionality sure is jettisoned quickly when it's inconvenient to the progressive narrative.

They just can't help themselves.

bagoh20 said...

Yea, if someone knows what those norms are, maybe they can give it a whirl, but who needs taught anyway? Don't they have a TV?

Rick said...

MadisonMan said...
What is controversial about it?


Do you think a seminar telling people not to commit rape or sexual assault is likely to have any meaningful impact? Do we think "migrants" rape because they don't know they shouldn't? Or do they believe that can get away with it because no one knows them and they'll be gone in three days? And yet this is offered as the best "solution" law enforcement can come up with. It sounds rather like a fig leaf.

bagoh20 said...

I don't think rape is a relationship norm anywhere. Does some culture claim it is? The only groups I know who think it is are SJW on campus and ISIS - both very small groups bent on world domination.

Michael K said...

I can remember American GI's in Europe interacting with European girls who had never been exposed to anything like the American high school dating culture.

Plus the American GIs had also invaded and won a war.

mockturtle said...

Many Muslims boys are taught that women who are not properly covered are free for the taking. I doubt that pamphlets and classes are going the change this very much.

ndspinelli said...

The Netflix series, Lillehammer, dealt w/ this. First season was funny. Then it went downhill from there.

David Begley said...

Easier and cheaper not to allow them into the country in the first place.

And for countries like Spain, Italy and France that are in a demographic death spiral, start paying people to have children. It is working in Japan.

Joe said...

Anyone going to another country should get some cultural lessons. Off the top of my head, I'd say that the top subjects should be language and hand faux pas and greeting/meeting protocols.

Obama needed the latter.

Anglelyne said...

Cracker Emcee: "statistics show most rapes in Norway are not committed by migrants"

Proportionately or totally? I love these kind of statements. They're deliberately misleading but "journalists" never question them.


Examine this statement: "In 2014, 1,266 sexual crimes charges were filed, including charges against 1,099 Norwegian, 20 Afghan, 12 Iraqi and one Syrian citizens."

Those among us who have been honing out Pravda reading skills for the last few years will be inclined to apply the usual salutary skepticism not only to proportional representation, but also to what the "journalists" (and gummint officialdom) are trying to sneak under the radar with the labels "Norwegian" and "migrant".

"Migrants" may not be committing "most rapes in Norway", but I doubt Sven is, either.

Hagar said...

Michael K.,
To this day I am amused by American women studiously avoiding meeting my eyes, and I have been told that this is because, if they do, this is supposed to be a signal my attentions would not be unwelcome.

Fernandinande said...

A male left-wing politician in Norway – Karsten Nordal Hauken – has spoken out about his rape, a few years ago, at the hands of a Somali refugee.
"All of which has occasioned Hauken to speak out about how guilty he himself feels. Guilty because he says that he is ‘responsible’ for the Somali rapist being returned to Somalia. He explains that ‘[I] had a strong feeling of guilt and responsibility. I was the reason that he would not be in Norway anymore, but rather sent to a dark uncertain future in Somalia.’"

Maybe Norwegian are getting what they deserve.

Crime rates by country of origin: Norway

The Godfather said...

If a Nowegian man commits rape, is he guilty of appropriating Muslim culture?

Anglelyne said...

Mohammad, 27, from Baghdad, has been in Norway seven months and would like to meet someone.

Asked if he understood why some Europeans thought he should not be dating local women, he replies: "What's the difference between people? What's the problem?


So Mohammed, you'd be cool with Olaf dating your sister? People are people, right?

Gahrie said...

We can't even teach western relationship norms to American school children any more.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

Relationship with "benefits".

Hagar said...

And Michael K., I also wonder at all the fuss in this country about the "equality" of women. No women in my family while I was growing up thought they were "just like men", but any one of them, and especially my big sister, would certainly have set me straight in no uncertain terms if I should have expressed any doubts as to their "equality"!

Comanche Voter said...

I dunno. Most rational males know it's not alright to walk up and grab a handful of some female cuties backside, Does anyone really need to be taught that lesson?

Hagar said...

My big sister was studing P.E. at the university in Oslo in the early 1950s when the U.S Navy paid the city a visit. A swabbie who must have believed the tall tales about Scandinavian women came up behind her and grabbed her around the waist and started to say something.
He immediately learned that his was a most imprudent action with which to surprise a healthy young woman, swinging a medicine ball by her side.

Achilles said...

bagoh20 said...
"I don't think rape is a relationship norm anywhere. Does some culture claim it is? The only groups I know who think it is are SJW on campus and ISIS - both very small groups bent on world domination."

This is absolutely wrong. Pocket Boys are the norm in Afghanistan. Most Imams have one. If an unmarried girl is raped in Pakistan or Iran or Afghanistan they are generally punished for adultery or forced to marry the male that raped her.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Should Western relationship norms be taught to migrants?

How can we teach them to migrants when we can't even teach them to westerners anymore?

Fernandinande said...

Anglelyne said...
Examine this statement: "In 2014, 1,266 sexual crimes charges were filed, including charges against 1,099 Norwegian, 20 Afghan, 12 Iraqi and one Syrian citizens."

Those among us who have been honing out Pravda reading skills ...


The statement means that a lot of foreign muslims have become Norwegian citizens.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Sweet lord, how innumerate do you have to be to say "most rapes aren't committed by migrants" and think you have proven something?! If migrants make up 5% of the total population and also commit 49% of all rapes it would be true that "most rapes aren't committed by migrants"... but that doesn't mean migrants aren't the biggest problem!
I mean I expect willful blindness from these folks, but they aren't even trying; they aren't even pretending here!

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Good point, IiB. I forget who said it but it was a good line's concerning the futility of these European nations hoping to assimilate these large populations of ME & Arab migrants, he said "Europe can't even manage to turn Greeks into Europeans...what chance do they have of turning Syrians, or Afghans, or Libyans into Europeans?"
Might have been Mark Steyn, seems like a fair, and fatal, question.

n.n said...

The issues with immigration are first, anti-native policies (e.g. abortion rites, dysfunctional revolution, Planned Parenthood); second, population changes that exceed both the rate of assimilation and integration; and, third, the promotion of mass exodus from second and third-world nations (e.g. refugee crises, illegal immigration).

The Drill SGT said...

Michael K said...
Plus the American GIs had also invaded and won a war.


I think the primary reference is to England where the phrase (which you know) was:

The Problem with Yanks is that they are:
- over paid
- over sexed
- over here

Larry J said...

Should I, in a moment of derangement, decide to immigrate to somewhere in the Middle East (say, Saudi Arabia), I would make the effort to learn the local laws and customs. My goal would be to obey their laws and avoid trouble. These "refugees" are insisting on bringing their customs with them. It reminds me of when people were made of sterner stuff:

“Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs."

[To Hindu priests complaining to him about the prohibition of Sati religious funeral practice of burning widows alive on her husband’s funeral pyre.]

― Charles James Napier

Darrell said...

They are not migrants, they are invaders. They take over the first-class seating in trains and force ticket holders out. They loot store without consequence. Locals shrug their shoulders and get back to their uselessness.

Anglelyne said...

HoodlumDoodlum: Sweet lord, how innumerate do you have to be to say "most rapes aren't committed by migrants" and think you have proven something?!

Innumeracy is a prerequisite for employment in the Western MSM. Understanding stats, and being able to convey them to the public in a way that informs rather than obfuscates, would be career death.

I'm sure there is a journalist here and there who understands what numbers mean, and is happy to feign innumeracy For the Cause, but I think most of 'em really are that stupid. They probably didn't start out that way, but a lifetime of cramming your brain into a PC-vise will have its effects.

mikee said...

""Should Western relationship norms be taught to migrants BEFORE THEY MIGRATE?""

FTFY

aritai said...

shouldn't be about relationships but how to acclimate. Taught by "their" people who have already succeeded. Once acclimated their travel rights and other benefits should be less and less constrained, Perhaps including the ankle bracelets or always on iPhone to track and communicate with them, so their ex-country men can advise them that you will regret this behavior before they do it. A local conscience sitting on their shoulder. Would be interesting to know why anyone would object, including a U.S. person vising a Holland has house or red light district, or area of Mexico where they are likely to be pickpocketed or abused in a hostel. What's good for one should be good for many up until the individual is trusted per some social norm for an area. "But we have rights!" not here until the community extends its trust to you. But that's too hard. Get over it. Deal with it. Sign up or don't enter. And this means you're entire family, if you’re coming together. Understand that one can ruin it for another, and you have to wait a year before we let you, invest our time in letting you try again. Good luck, we love having productive people like you come live in our country.