June 12, 2016

"In his remarks today, President Obama disgracefully refused to even say the words 'Radical Islam'. For that reason alone, he should step down."

"If Hillary Clinton, after this attack, still cannot say the two words 'Radical Islam' she should get out of this race for the Presidency. If we do not get tough and smart real fast, we are not going to have a country anymore. Because our leaders are weak, I said this was going to happen – and it is only going to get worse. I am trying to save lives and prevent the next terrorist attack. We can't afford to be politically correct anymore."

From Trump's statement on the Orlando massacre.

146 comments:

Valentine Smith said...

Guess what? He's right.

Big Mike said...

Go Donald! Shame them into admitting reality.

PB said...

Worse, Obama suggested it's we who have to change.

Michael K said...

He won't step down. Trump knows better. He would probably do better to talk about the border and the fact that the shooter worked for a federal contractor.

Valentine Smith said...

Now watch the demos feint to gun control. How long will diversionary tactics work?

readering said...

I'm looking forward to learning about the Orlando shooter and how he was emboldened by the President's repeated failures to use the words radical Islam in his politically correct condemnations of recent terrorists attacks in the United States and elsewhere. The shooter probably decided to carry out the shooting now, before Trump got inaugurated in January and could foil his plans with bold political incorrectness.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Guildofcannonballs said...
Trump doesn't think America was kept safe on 9/11. Part of his reasoning for the causes of the security failures and ruination of vast amounts of life and wealth (and American pride and drive) is political correctness and a fear of being accused of being monstrous by unwitting terrorist enablers like Beldar.

Consider the people who thought the Muslims who attacked us on 9/11 and since, especially the most egregious cases like Nadal Hassan,* who were suspicious of the (verified) monsters but afraid, or at least too cautious, to alert anyone because of potential bigotry labels they might have faced.

Trump wants to obliterate that quasi-suicidal mindset, like any real American wanted to end Jamie Gorelick's wall preventing various federal agencies from communicating with each other.

Beldar, in effect, wants these monsters of Islam to remain able to attack us so Beldar can feel superior about his morals compared to Trump and Trump supporters.

Trump sees his children and grandchildren's future as more important than what people might accuse him of in his efforts trying to protect the country in the face of internal and external enemies that use our sense of decency to keep killing us.

Funny how, like in Christian examples of properly following God's laws not man's, Trump is willing to be condemned as a monster and face potential great loss of stature in order to do what he thinks will Make America Great Again. Think Ross Perot saying POTUS isn't a job he would want but rather a duty he felt he needed to fulfill.

Funnier still, the people making the most vitriolic "to the man" attacks against Trump will argue Trump didn't risk anything by running for POTUS as a Republican, even vitriolic attacks on the internet, as if Trump didn't know politics is polarizing and not "good business." People still claim Trump wants Hillary elected and both of them trusted and trust each other to conspire against the voters knowing exactly how everything will play out, like in a movie or something else made up. The idea is the Most Selfish Business Failure In History could not have figured out how to privately bribe or threaten others to gain wealth and power, but had to resort to running for POTUS to satiate his devilish greed.

3/6/16, 2:59 PM

Guildofcannonballs said...

http://www.mediaite.com/online/orlando-shooters-former-co-worker-says-employer-ignored-unhinged-behavior-because-he-was-muslim/

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-live-former-coworker-i-complained-multiple-1465777922-htmlstory.html

Guildofcannonballs said...

"I'm looking forward to learning about the Orlando shooter..."

Many consider him a heroic martyr, you are not alone.

rcocean said...

"Now watch the demos feint to gun control."

They ALWAYS feint to gun control unless its a killer they dislike, then its all about "Right-wing Hate".

traditionalguy said...

This is going to be easy. Trump has all his firepower truths sighted in and The Hillary Campaign with its Media divisions is stupidly walking into kill zones called Clinton Cash, Benghazi, and Fast and Furious gun running linked to Libya weaponry shipments to the so called Syrian Rebels, now revealed to have been ISIL.

Trump can splain it. That created the refugee Muslim Army now invading the USA at Obama's orders and our expense.

Obama will be forced to give the sign to prosecute to Lynch or President Trump will prosecute both of them for Treason.

eric said...

I don't understand why this guy was a registered Democrat. Does it make sense to anyone else?

Here is how it makes sense to me. Even though it's the Democrat party that pushes the moral degradation on this nation that a terrorist like this guy would certainly oppose, it's also the Democrat party that is afraid to fight back against ISIS and call Islamic Terror what it is.

So, if your choices are to allow a culture to degrade morally and hence increase recruitment, or help those who want to fight back against you, I guess it's a no brainer why radical Islamic Jihadists might choose to join the Democrat party.

Mark said...

Obama has repeatedly said that ISIS is "not an existential threat" to us. Hillary too has said similar things. Tell it to the people in that club who no longer exist.

bagoh20 said...

I really dislike this Trump fella, but how dumb do you have to be at this point to vote Democrat? Probably at least 51%. That's how dumb we are.

Jack Wayne said...

Trump may have realized that he has 2 primary targets in this election. He needs to push Obama's negatives to 45% or below before November. Characterizing him as Cowardly Obama may do the trick. I think if he does that, Clinton's negatives will be amplified.

David Begley said...

Islamists laughing at our so-called leaders.

Obama's speech today was pathetic and delusional. Worst ever.

The issue is not gun control and hate of LGBTQ people. The issue is that radical Islam is at war with America.

narciso said...

well the truth will eventually come out, but not in the times, or even the journal

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html

JimT said...

Got here late. My first thought was, "If the people in club had been armed, it would have turned out like Garland."

eric said...

Blogger JimT said...
Got here late. My first thought was, "If the people in club had been armed, it would have turned out like Garland."

6/12/16, 10:13 PM


It's funny, I don't go anywhere unarmed, especially if I'm wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat or T-shirt.

I'd think if you were gay in America and things are as bad as the news media makes it out to be, you'd not go out to a nightclub without having a concealed weapon with you.

chickelit said...

has repeatedly said that ISIS is "not an existential threat" to us. Hillary too has said similar things.

Well of course. They gambled that if they were nice to the local Imams and badmouthed Trump and his supporters instead that they would somehow hem in, turn in, or otherwise hinder nut jobs like Mateen. They lost that gamble. No wonder Obama looks so pissed-off these days: His legacy is existentially threatened.

clint said...

"Mark said...
Obama has repeatedly said that ISIS is "not an existential threat" to us. Hillary too has said similar things. Tell it to the people in that club who no longer exist.

6/12/16, 10:07 PM"

He's right. It's not an existential threat.

But he's dead wrong in what he means us to infer. It's not just his responsibility to protect the American people from threats like nuclear annihilation.

"eric said...
I don't understand why this guy was a registered Democrat. Does it make sense to anyone else?"

The Democratic Party is a bizarre coalition of disparate groups that frequently disagree with, or even hate, each other. (See: illegal immigrants and blue-collar union workers, or gays and blacks, or jews and pretty much the whole party...) I'd guess he was a Democrat because he thinks Republicans are muslim-hating bigots.

It's identity politics, not idea politics.

sane_voter said...

Amazing, that in a country 240 years old, it is this small minority of peaceful Muslims that have perpetrated the two worst attacks on continental US soil, all within the last 15 years.

Terry said...

If any issue will drive the anti-Hillary people to the polls to vote for Trump, it is gun control. Her words on the topic have been intemperate and hard to walk back. She already has the votes of the gun control people anyhow. This is a mistake that Bill would never have made.
Obama's goal is to calibrate the investigative powers of the FBI and the CIA to keep the actual number of Muslim terrorist attacks one below the number that will trigger an unstoppable popular backlash against Muslim citizens and immigrants. He thinks that is smart politickin'.

chickelit said...

I have to wonder why Rodham supports what looks like a suicidal acceleration of Middle Eastern immigrants. I have to speculate that there is a financial reason for this. She has absolutely no qualms about personally taking money from repressive regimes. She was recently caught peddling jobs in the State Department in exchange for donations: link. I can do the math.

eric said...

BTW,

Am I the only person here who thinks there has to be more than just the 1 guy?

How does 1 guy, even with a freaking tank, kill 50 people? And if he killed 50, there has to be lot's more injured, right?

I've been out of the loop all day so maybe I've got my facts wrong. But, consider me skeptical if the current "facts" are 1 guy killed 50 people.

Paddy O said...

"it is this small minority of peaceful Muslims that have perpetrated the two worst attacks on continental US soil"

The worst attacks on continental US soil were in the Civil War. Muslims have a long way to go to perpetuate more violence than that.

narciso said...

well moslems voted strongly gop in 2000, when W was berating 'racial profiling' on the part of the democrats, that came via norquist who was following alamoudi's lead, by 2004, they found easier marks,

Clayton Hennesey said...

Conservative blogger Rod Dreher took the high road, bemoaning the universal exploitation of Orlando for partisan and personal advantage before concluding

"You probably have your own fears, but I believe that some on the Left will use this as a kind of Reichstag fire, to justify further cracking down on free speech, and demonizing Christians. I hope I’m wrong. I don’t think I will be."

Dreher's latest project is something called the Benedict Option, which offers a response to a culture which demonizes Christians. The greater the demonization of Christians, the more potential need for his Benedict Option as a response.

So there was something for everyone to look forward to today, even blogger Rod Dreher.

Spiros Pappas said...

Out of every thousand Arab immigrants, one is involved in a terror attack? Is that possible? It seems astoundingly high.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Characterizing him as Cowardly Obama may do the trick. I think if he does that, Clinton's negatives will be amplified."

Oh, yes, please.

When it became clear that Trump was going to be the nominee, I swore I would refrain from voting for President this year. The vicious anti-Trump mob in San Jose made me rethink my stance. I don't want to see those assholes win. And I realize that while Trump is no prize, at least he gets a few right things right. The Democrats get absolutely nothing right.

Michael K said...

I'd think if you were gay in America and things are as bad as the news media makes it out to be, you'd not go out to a nightclub without having a concealed weapon with you.

I read "Gay Patriot" from time to time. Gay marriage is not something I am interested in but I am interested in whether gays are interested in self defense. Of course, it would require them to identify with Republicans and that would be too much.

rcocean said...

"Conservative blogger Rod Dreher"

Please, there's nothing really conservative about Rod. He's a moderate/liberal Christian. He's pro-life and dislikes the Christian bashing by the Left, but in everything else he's moderate to liberal.

Mark said...

It is rather curious Clayton, or perhaps I should say that it is rather pathological, that with Christians and conservatives expressing widespread sadness and outrage at the horrific violence in Orlando, that so much of the left and the "LGBT community" should not welcome the solidarity, but instead use this as an excuse to attack Christians and conservatives while effectively giving ISIS terror a pass.

Paul said...

@Spiros,

One out of a thousand THAT WE KNOW OF, but how many assisted by providing for them? How many of them gave moral support?

Sebastian said...

Gays have a chance to learn their lesson: in the Prog hierarchy of Others, they rank below Muzzies.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

I've been out of the loop all day so maybe I've got my facts wrong. But, consider me skeptical if the current "facts" are 1 guy killed 50 people.

I think the fact the cops stayed outside for 3 freaking hours helped him rack up the score.

eric said...

Blogger Michael K said...
I'd think if you were gay in America and things are as bad as the news media makes it out to be, you'd not go out to a nightclub without having a concealed weapon with you.

I read "Gay Patriot" from time to time. Gay marriage is not something I am interested in but I am interested in whether gays are interested in self defense. Of course, it would require them to identify with Republicans and that would be too much.


Here in Seattle Washington, on New Years Eve, a long, long, long time ago (2013) a Muslim man here poured gasoline on stairs at a gay bar and tried to burn the place down while it was packed. There were 750 people in the bar at the time.

Fortunately, the fire was extinguished and no one was killed.

Betcha most people haven't even heard of this incident.

narciso said...

the Benedict option, seems counter to everything paul counseled, we should be' in the world not of it' not versa vice.

Sebastian said...

"how many assisted by providing for them? How many of them gave moral support?" Case in point: Somalis in Minnesota. Many knew what the convicted would-be terrorists were up to, only a few came forward, most bitched about injustice after the fact, none was found by major media afaik to apologize to the U.S.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Blogger Mark said...
It is rather curious Clayton, or perhaps I should say that it is rather pathological, that with Christians and conservatives expressing widespread sadness and outrage at the horrific violence in Orlando, that so much of the left and the "LGBT community" should not welcome the solidarity, but instead use this as an excuse to attack Christians and conservatives while effectively giving ISIS terror a pass.

6/12/16, 10:32 PM

They've got their Narrative and nothing can change it. Just ask Miriam/Amanda, who has been making an ass of herself all day on these threads. Christians are yucky and ha8ers and that's that. According to Miriam, they did and said nothing about anti-gay laws in Uganda (I'm sure every single Christian in America was aware of those laws), so that shows they don't give a shit about gays. Now that they're expressing sympathy and support and offering their prayers - well that also means they don't give a shit about gays, because they must be faking it.

Terry said...

Blogger Bill, Republic of Texas said...
I think the fact the cops stayed outside for 3 freaking hours helped him rack up the score.

I heard one report, this morning, that the police had the guy and his hostages holed up in the nightclub for hours, and moved in after they received 'a communication from inside the nightclub.' Maybe their protocols said to delay and let the negotiator do his work, until they got the communication: 'this guy is killing us by the dozens, help, you morons!'

Jupiter said...

Spiros Pappas said...
"Out of every thousand Arab immigrants, one is involved in a terror attack? Is that possible? It seems astoundingly high."

Not "Arab", Spiros. Muslim. Christian Arabs are only involved in terrorist attacks as victims.

Lauderdale Vet said...

"How does 1 guy, even with a freaking tank, kill 50 people?"

People run for the exits. The exits become congested choke points. It becomes a shooting gallery. I hear the rooms were relatively small.

SWAT didn't come in for hours. Simply injured people who could have been saved bled out.

Tangentially, this NYT Correspondent had a run of tweets today that should really be required reading:

https://twitter.com/rcallimachi

cyrus83 said...

When trying to deal with Radical Islam, gun control isn't going to cut it. Gun control isn't in the Koran and nobody who's gone enough off the deep end into religious zeal to determine to kill lots of people is going to be stopped by a statute. Just as with Prohibition, there will always be a black market and organized crime to supply what is legally banned, it will just make it all that much harder to track.

Whether Hillary and Obama like it or not, Islamic terror attacks are becoming an issue, and they are going to need to acknowledge it exists and come up with something better than gun control to fight it if they want the public to trust the Dems on the subject.

And unfortunately, when it comes to religiously inspired warriors, there are usually only three possible solutions to stop them: convince them that their God/religion is false (conversion), utterly defeat them, or kill them. Since we seem to be loathe to do any of these choices, most likely we will be living with this problem until such time as there is a push to choose an option above or there is surrender.

narciso said...

she's all over the map, otoh, she says it couldn't be an Islamic State directed attack, otoh, she points this is exactly what Abbaoud, planned out,

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Interested to see what effect if any Obama's speech has on his allegedly 54% job approval rating. This president has been caught lying and deceiving the American people multiple times, his foreign policy has led to disaster and defeat, and his domestic agenda is a horrorshow- worst economy since Carter, riots and racial strife, disruption, deception and decay. Is this guy The LightBringer or what?

fivewheels said...

Candy Crowley says yes, he totally did say "radical Islam."

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

how many assisted by providing for them? How many of them gave moral support?

I just returned from Sarajevo. Last time I was there was 12 years ago. I was shocked by how many covered women and bearded men in white I saw this time. When I mentioned tbis, all the nonsecular Muslims praised them and said"they are strong in the faith" no condemnation for the radicals. I fear BiH is starting to go full retard Muslim.

Next month i'll be in Albania and I'll see how they are doing.

chickelit said...

Candy Crowley says yes, he totally did say "radical Islam."

She had the transcripts at her fingertips?

Clayton Hennesey said...

Beyond the universal agreement by Dreher and others that a crisis as rare and profound as this should never be allowed to go to waste lies the virtual certainty that sales of the AR platform will skyrocket, particularly given the rhetorical boost provided by Obama. Gun control? DOA.

An ISIS wannabe who shoots 100 people can't help but telegraph the feeling that a Glock will simply no longer do. Time to step up to that AR chambered in .300 blackout with a nice red dot optic. Look forward to another season of insane prices and shortages.

bagoh20 said...

The threat is not existential.

Gay rights has little to do with the attack.

The restriction of our ability to defend ourselves - whether regulatory or voluntary is all that is weakening us. Nobody spits into the wind for long.

How does one man with a gun overpower and massacre a group of hundreds of young, strong, fit men in close quarters? That would never happen in an airliner because you can't runaway. It would not happen in any biker bar I know either. Why not?

mockturtle said...

Here in Seattle Washington, on New Years Eve, a long, long, long time ago (2013) a Muslim man here poured gasoline on stairs at a gay bar and tried to burn the place down while it was packed. There were 750 people in the bar at the time.

Fortunately, the fire was extinguished and no one was killed.

Betcha most people haven't even heard of this incident.


I remember that, eric. Maybe because I'm a former Seattle-ite. I also well remember how the 'Muslim' element was played down. As it will be in this event. It's already being portrayed now more as a 'hate crime' than 'Islamic terrorism'.

n.n said...

All lives matter.

chuck said...

How does one man with a gun overpower and massacre a group of hundreds of young, strong, fit men in close quarters?

Odysseus killed 108 suitors. Much could depend on the layout of the bar and the ability of the victims to organize themselves. I expect we will hear more about that when the details come out.

Saint Croix said...

I want to vote for Peter Hitchens.

I swear that family says what they think!

William said...

I just don't understand what historical debt we owe to Somalia, Syria or Afghanistan that we should welcome refugees or immigrants from those countries. Why do we actively recruit people who hate America to come live here?

Saint Croix said...

ISIS' official news wire, the Amaq News Agency, has just claimed the Orlando shooting.

Declare war on Isis. Ask Congress first.

chickelit said...

From Saint Croix's link, Peter Hitchens wrote: It has been a mystery to me that these voters stayed loyal to organisations that repeatedly spat on them from a great height. Labour doesn’t love the poor. It loves the London elite. The Tories don’t love the country. They love only money.

That translates fairly well into American English.

chickelit said...

I just don't understand what historical debt we owe to Somalia, Syria or Afghanistan that we should welcome refugees or immigrants from those countries. Why do we actively recruit people who hate America to come live here?

Perhaps, just perhaps, there is a very wealthy country holding a lot of American debt which insists upon it? Just a hunch.

Saint Croix said...

That translates fairly well into American English.

Yes it does!

Interesting that Donald Trump's criticisms have affected the people of England, too.

Although he does have some criticisms about Donnie later down in the article.

Saint Croix said...

When a criminal organization, or a sovereign state, starts murdering innocent Americans, and takes credit for it, you need to fight that fight.

Ask Congress, Declaration of War, on Isis. It's not rocket science.

chickelit said...

Declare war on Isis. Ask Congress first.

The President will dicker over naming the enemy. I don't mean his avoidance of "radical Islam." I mean his solitary insistence on calling the enemy ISIL. If you can't name the enemy even at that level, it's hopeless.
"Little Satan" offers hope. All we are saying is give Trump a chance.

Saint Croix said...

Does he use the "L" because he won't admit "Syria"?

Pathetic!

chickelit said...

Declare war on Isis. Ask Congress first.

The President will dicker over naming the enemy. I don't mean his avoidance of "radical Islam." I mean his solitary insistence on calling the enemy ISIL. If you can't name the enemy even at that level, it's hopeless.
"Baby Satan" offers hope. All we are saying is give Trump a chance.

grackle said...

The shooter probably decided to carry out the shooting now, before Trump got inaugurated in January and could foil his plans with bold political incorrectness.

Straw man alert. Trump doesn’t want to halt Muslim immigration because it would prevent those potential jihadists already allowed in. Trump wants to retard the inevitable crop of home-grown jihadists that future Muslim immigration will inevitably bring. We have a sizeable Muslim population already and we get Orlando. More Muslims allowed in = more Orlandos. To me the logic seems simple and unassailable.

But, on the other hand, if the assumption, spoken or unspoken, is that America can and should “absorb” such attacks without any change in immigration policy I suppose more Muslim immigration is a good thing. Diversity trumps whatever.

As with foreign policy we need to get out of this “unicorn and rainbow” stage of immigration policy we’ve been in since the sixties and start making policy designed to protect the safety and well-being of our citizens.

Saint Croix said...

Chick nailed it, the ISIL thing is insane.

Obama's grasp of reality is shaky. The man is so steeped in his own wannabe world he can't see the world as it is. Yes, they are in Syria, shit-for-brains. They are not the jv squad. You are an idiot.

chickelit said...

Saint Croix said...Does he use the "L" because he won't admit "Syria"?

It's because he insists that the moniker include "Levant" which includes Palestine (and Israel). Not that Obama is anti-Palestine or pro-Israel.

Who knows?


(Probably Valery Jarret)

Guildofcannonballs said...

Rukmini Callimachi ‏@rcallimachi 14h14 hours ago
Those fanning flames of Islamophobia consider this: Largest Muslim org in US is asking 4blood donations for Orlando: http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Breaking--CAIR-FL-to-Respond-to-Florida-Night-Club-Shooting--Urge-Muslims-to-Donate-Blood-for-Victims.html?soid=1103010792410&aid=Jiag7_sUDMk …

Why not take the blood instead of ask? Your cause is worthy and your methods just.

Of course Muslims won't invent blood that humans can live on. Of course. Neither will I alone, which is where my sympathy lies.

But knowing Muslims will take American blood any way they can get it is something to consider. Even from American Muslims. I guess Obama was right America isn't any more exceptional to anyone anymore than Greece is exceptional to the Greeks themselves.

But why worry about Americans when Muslims are dying all throughout the world? America has killed thousands of Muslims, so how can any moral person concern themselves with 50 dead Americans, unless due to lack of temperament?

Saint Croix said...

Those fanning flames of Islamophobia consider this: Largest Muslim org in US is asking 4blood donations for Orlando: http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Breaking--CAIR-FL-to-Respond-to-Florida-Night-Club-Shooting--Urge-Muslims-to-Donate-Blood-for-Victims.html?soid=1103010792410&aid=Jiag7_sUDMk …

I think ISIS wants a holy war. Obama should give them a calm and measured response to this murderous attack. Which means asking the Congress for a declaration of war.

A failure to do so only makes Americans afraid and angry, and puts Donald Trump in office.

Again, ISIS is claiming responsibility for this attack. These are awful people, doing awful things. And (of course!) the biggest victims of their evil has been their fellow Muslims. Obama might make that point as he asks Congress for a Declaration of War.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"And unfortunately, when it comes to religiously inspired warriors,"

Too dumb to know your religion or what a warrior means, your ingratitude for the lives sacrificed to allow you to bash Jesus is different than Allah forcing people to flee any lands his political handbook the Quran directs to be as it is and no better. The wicked flee when none pursueth.

Flee my son, to China. You will find religious warriors, called different names like The State, and your paradise will fulfill you so any mind would boggle.

wholelottasplainin' said...

"Perhaps, just perhaps, there is a very wealthy country holding a lot of American debt which insists upon it? Just a hunch."

I've never understood that line of thinking. Whaddatheygonnado, this very wealthy country?

Call in their loans, in an attempt to ruin us? Well, THEY would be ruined as well, since WE could obliterate them militarily in an afternoon.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"When trying to deal with Radical Islam, gun control isn't going to cut it."

You mean to say gun control won't deal (effectively) with Radical Islam. This isn't what you said.

"Trying to deal" with abortion enriches many folks, trying to deal with poverty is the biggest money maker in the world's history for those doing the trying; not for those in poverty.

You in on it?

cubanbob said...

"In his remarks today, President Obama disgracefully refused to even say the words 'Radical Islam'. For that reason alone, he should step down."
"If Hillary Clinton, after this attack, still cannot say the two words 'Radical Islam' she should get out of this race for the Presidency. If we do not get tough and smart real fast, we are not going to have a country anymore. Because our leaders are weak, I said this was going to happen – and it is only going to get worse. I am trying to save lives and prevent the next terrorist attack. We can't afford to be politically correct anymore."

Considering that Hillary's crimes and treason happened on his watch with his consent Obama should jump at the twoofer to resign immediately and have no fear of prosecution. Soon enough Trumpy will be calling out Obama for his crimes in office.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Blogger bagoh20 said...

"The threat is not existential.

Gay rights has little to do with the attack.

The restriction of our ability to defend ourselves - whether regulatory or voluntary is all that is weakening us. Nobody spits into the wind for long.

How does one man with a gun overpower and massacre a group of hundreds of young, strong, fit men in close quarters? That would never happen in an airliner because you can't runaway. It would not happen in any biker bar I know either. Why not?

6/12/16, 11:07 PM"

Because the paradigmatic men Patton declared we should be glad lived were aborted. People noticed. If those men were aborted, who gives a shit about anything for what?

Of course these men were not aborted voluntarily, American law denied them life.

Because it can. Don't you forget, ever.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Largest Muslim org in US" compared to the largest Christian org's outside the US isn't apt, because the Christians were murdered or fled with chasing demons bellowing the Quran.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Intellectually, because Marxism has caused so many millions of deaths, focusing on the Muslim murders and forgetting the Marxist murder can be construed as biased with some cause.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Why do we actively recruit people who hate America to come live here?"

Because "we" conflate ourselves with true evil, seeking only power regardless of how obtained and the consequences.

Ben Arnold was a pretty impressive guy we liked; until we didn't.

wholelottasplainin' said...

Will someone 'splain to me how Muslims coming here who advocate adherence to Sharia law can EVER become citizens of the US , taking an oath to adhere to the US Constitution?

Or is that just "lying for Islam", taqiya, where they will argue "persecution" if they don't lie???

Trump is right---keep them out!!!

Those who are here? Unless you are willing to police yourselves, expect to be policed!!!!!

Achilles said...

And people thought things were going to end well. It comes.

rhhardin said...

PC prevents the discussion of almost all our problems. Islam is just an illustration.

That's Trump's support.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Looks like I was wrong.

Apologies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E#t=171.075458

tim in vermont said...

"It's not what it looks like!" - Hillary.

She probably learned that from Bill.

campy said...

"He won't step down."

Bold prediction of the decade from Michael K!

/s

Rusty said...


"How does one man with a gun overpower and massacre a group of hundreds of young, strong, fit men in close quarters? That would never happen in an airliner because you can't runaway. It would not happen in any biker bar I know either. Why not?"

You can't assert that with any certainty. Panic begets panic. it takes an unusual person to step out of the chaos and take control. We'd all like to think we'd act differently in this kind of situation. In all likelyhood we wouldn't.
And remember.
The police are under no legal obligation to endanger their lives to save yours. Prepare accordingly.

Unknown said...

The murderer was Muslim and by all currently reported accounts mentally unbalanced according to his first wife and probably an ISIS sympathiser.

What was the problem with the young white man who murdered black church-goers a few months ago. Was he mentally unstable or just a white-supremacist.

What was the problem with the young white-asian man who murdered a bunch of UCSB students a year or so ago. Was he mentally ill or unbalanced because girls would not date him.

And this list goes on and on each rampage of murder with its own characteristics.

What they all have in common is they brought a military grade firearm to do their work for them.

Each year, Americans make it easier and easier to murder fellow Americans at gatherings for whatever reason - race, religion, sexuality and so on.

tim in vermont said...

"White Asian" "White Hispanic" Let's all play 'let's pretend"

AReasonableMan said...

It seems like there is room for a grand compromise here. Let's ban guns and muslims.

grackle said...

I’m watching Morning Joe. They are puzzled as to the motivation of the jihadist. They just cannot figure out WHY he did it. Such a mystery. Oh and they DEPLORE the politicization “before the victims are cold” – this as they eagerly do it themselves. What hypocrites.

I’m waiting for them to quote some Trump tweets, especially the one about Obama NOT using the phrase “Islamic terrorists.” I’m only a few minutes into the recording but I’ll bet you the tweet goes studiously unmentioned. No matter, the Donald has a lot of Twitter followers. The word will get out.

One guest who writes for the NYT is very concerned that the jihadist could easily get an “assault rifle,” the kind “our troops carry into battle.” I’m beginning to believe that the ignorance is feigned. I believe he knows full well that the rifle is not an “assault rifle” and is not a military weapon carried into battle by our soldiers. But the lie serves anti-gun the narrative.

Their narrative is that ISIS did not actually recruit the jihadist; the jihadist “self-recruited,” “self-radicalized.” They have to distort and equivocate on this. If they admitted he was recruited by ISIS that would mean that Trump was right and they were wrong – and the implication would be that their mistake has cost the lives of innocent American citizens. And they must avoid that implication anyway they THINK they can, including Orwellian manipulation of language and outright lies.

I guess we are lucky that the jihadist saw fit to make his motivation crystal-clear.

Clayton Hennesey said...

What they all have in common is they brought a military grade firearm to do their work for them.

I don't believe you help your cause by telling lies. Unless you can explain differently what made Mateen's rifle "military grade", the correct statement is "what they all have in common is they brought a hunting grade firearm to do their work for them".

But the situation is now moot. The 3 million+ AR long gun platforms now at large across all strata of America - liberal, conservative, white, black, Hispanic, gay, straight, male female, and every combination thereof - can no longer be delegitimized. Why, for Heaven's sake, do you think people keep and bear arms per their 2A right? Selfies?

damikesc said...

I read "Gay Patriot" from time to time. Gay marriage is not something I am interested in but I am interested in whether gays are interested in self defense. Of course, it would require them to identify with Republicans and that would be too much.

Read Milo Yiannapoulos. He is beyond pissed. Feels the Left preference of Muslims over gay men led to this.

I think the fact the cops stayed outside for 3 freaking hours helped him rack up the score.

When seconds count, police are minutes away.

Those people deserved protection. They believed they'd have protection. Some eschewed carrying guns themselves because they were promised protection. It is tragic.

I remember that, eric. Maybe because I'm a former Seattle-ite. I also well remember how the 'Muslim' element was played down. As it will be in this event. It's already being portrayed now more as a 'hate crime' than 'Islamic terrorism'.

I'm in the South and don't follow Seattle regularly. Never heard of that at all. You'd think that'd have been a HUGE story, but it was not.

Rukmini Callimachi ‏@rcallimachi 14h14 hours ago
Those fanning flames of Islamophobia consider this: Largest Muslim org in US is asking 4blood donations for Orlando


I love that "group whose adherent murdered tons of people wants to try and clean up mess" means nobody should criticize the group. Especially since this wasn't a one-off incident.

Unknown said...

Fair enough. Change "What they all have in common is they brought a military grade firearm to do their work for them" to "What they all have in common is they brought a firearm to do their work for them". Be happy.

grackle said...

The murderer was Muslim and by all currently reported accounts mentally unbalanced according to his first wife and probably an ISIS sympathiser.

Ex-wifey says he beat her. Nothing “unbalanced” about that. It’s normal behavior in Muslimland. Institutional misogyny is a big part of the culture. The jihadist wasn’t “unbalanced.” He was doing the accepted thing for a married Muslim male. This is a culture that strongly believes in “honor killings.”

Unknown said...

Fair enough, Change "The murderer was Muslim and by all currently reported accounts mentally unbalanced according to his first wife and probably an ISIS sympathiser." to "The murderer was Muslim and by all currently reported accounts an ISIS sympathiser." Be happy.

Clayton Hennesey said...

What they all have in common is they brought a firearm to do their work for them". Be happy.

Let's just all be grateful you're not analyzing the logistics of rape.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Gee, Unknown, good point. Since the marathon bombers and the 9/11 hijackers didn't use firearms, they must not have anything in common with Mateen.

grackle said...

The murderer was Muslim and by all currently reported accounts mentally unbalanced according to his first wife and probably an ISIS sympathiser.

Ex-wifey says he beat her. Nothing “unbalanced” about that. It’s normal behavior in Muslimland. Institutional misogyny is a big part of the culture. The jihadist wasn’t “unbalanced.” He was doing the accepted thing for a married Muslim male. This is a culture that strongly believes in “honor killings.”

Again, ISIS is claiming responsibility for this attack.

ISIS says ISIS is responsible. The shooter claimed allegiance just before the shooting so there could be no doubt about his “motivation.” But for the life of them they just cannot figure out WHY the shooter turned violent. The puzzle of a lifetime. One for the centuries. One more for their Book of Unexplainable Violence.

damikesc said...

I'll note Obama had no problem figuring out why Dylan Root shot up nice black folks at a church.

But why a Muslim dude would shoot up nice gay folks at a club --- who's to say? Who can possibly figure out why?

Meade said...

AReasonableMan said...
"It seems like there is room for a grand compromise here. Let's ban guns and muslims."

Do you think you're cute?

AReasonableMan said...

Meade said...
Do you think you're cute?


Do you think this was a thoughtful sensible comment?

MaxedOutMama said...

I'm not sensing the outrage from the president. And that is what I am feeling. Outrage. Anger. A gut-churning disgust at the ideology that produced this attack, a deeply-felt rejection of it, and a determination to make this country an inhospitable place for those who preach and wish to practice it.

As of now, I support Trump's comment about a temporary halt to Muslim immigration, solely due to the utter failure of the political apparatus to recognize the problem, identify it publicly, and put in place any meaningful steps to limit the damage.

We have no obligation to import anybody who supports sharia law into the country. This is not a religious discrimination issue. Individuals who don't support the American Constitution should not be admitted as refugees. Period.

I am afraid that only when Muslims recognize that they are fouling their own nest they will begin to police their own. The US appeasement campaign has been entirely the wrong choice.

I also note with horror that the rather objectionable father of the perp has shown up in DC (before this) hobnobbing with quite a number of politicians. There's a lot more to this story. I doubt it will be told.

dreams said...

We're doomed, western civilization is doomed.

Saint Croix said...

The religion of the perps is as irrelevant as the sexuality of the victims.

This is an act of war, by ISIS, on American soil.

The only appropriate response is to ask Congress for a declaration of war.

damikesc said...

This is the only article really worth reading on it:

"The Christian Right may not be totally down with homos, and Trump may say things that hurt our delicate feelings, but they aren’t going to kill us or put us in camps. Only Islam would do that — the same Islam that, bizarrely, now stands at the top of the left’s hierarchy of victimhood."

http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/06/12/left-chose-islam-gays-now-100-people-killed-maimed-orlando/

Milo has been calling this shot for a while now. The gay community hates the right and hates conservatives ... but conservatives and the right aren't going to kill them en masse. Islam will.

Meade said...

AReasonableMan said...
Meade said...
Do you think you're cute?

Do you think this was a thoughtful sensible comment?
—————————————————————————
Perhaps I misjudged your proposal. Go ahead, make your reasonable argument for a "grand compromise" banning "guns and muslims." You have my attention.

Saint Croix said...

Obama should talk about his love of Islam, and how he was raised a Muslim before he converted to Christ. "I know Islam, and these fanatics do not speak for Islam." Like that. And then ask Congress for a declaration of war.

Meade said...

"And then ask Congress for a declaration of war."

The trouble with that is, in the minds of many who elected him POTUS, that would be enough to make him a war criminal. Like W.

tim in vermont said...

The Cranberries' song Zombie, about the Irish "troubles" should be played at every memorial, but it won't be, because it is far too honest.

head hangs lowly
Child is slowly taken
And the violence caused such silence
Who are we mistaken?
But you see, it's not me
It's not my family
In your head, in your head
They are fighting
With their tanks, and their bombs
And their bombs, and their guns
In your head, in your head
They are crying


Meade said...

Sorry — W. only asked for an authorization to use military force.

tim in vermont said...

Obama should talk about his love of Islam, and how he was raised a Muslim before he converted to Christ. "I know Islam, and these fanatics do not speak for Islam." Like that. And then ask Congress for a declaration of war.

Obama wrote a passage in his book about how so many people saw in him what they wanted to see. I would have loved a president Obama who thought that he was president of the whole United States, not just his Democrats. We never saw that guy.

AReasonableMan said...

Meade said...
You have my attention.


I already had your attention. The gun fundamentalists and the 'we can act with impunity in the muslim world' fundamentalists are making my life less secure. They should compromise or fuck off.

Meade said...

This guy seems like a very reasonable man: https://youtu.be/Vf2mH-CGQFc

Meade said...

"They should compromise or fuck off."

A "reasonable" ultimatum surely.

AReasonableMan said...

I'm giving you half the argument, we can block immigration from muslim countries if you like, but you still can't concede that our sick gun culture is also a problem. Gun fundamentalists are as big a problem as muslim fundamentalists in this country.

Meeeea said...

eric said... Am I the only person here who thinks there has to be more than just the 1 guy?

There was info last night floating around that some of the people in the club said there were two terrorists, which was denied and attributed to witness confusion, especially due to the amount of shots being fired. Another was a woman after surgery that had been hit several times, and they attributed it to both witness confusion and that she was still full of sedatives from surgery.

damikesc said...

When the SWAT team won't go in...what justification is there for gun control?

exhelodrvr1 said...

ARM,
"Gun fundamentalists are as big a problem as muslim fundamentalists in this country."
You almost have it right. People that honestly believe the above statement are as big a problem as muslim fundamentalists.

Fabi said...

What the fuck is a "gun fundamentalist" ARM? Someone who accepts the second amendment?

I Callahan said...

but you still can't concede that our sick gun culture is also a problem

That's because the "gun culture" had NOTHING to do with what happened. Whatsoever. Using your logic, Anders Breivik really didn't mow down 70 people. Because there is no gun culture in Norway.

You know, it's ironic - gun owners are seen as the cause of so many things wrong in this country, when they had nothing to do with those things that go wrong.

M Jordan said...

"Gun fundamentalists are as big a problem as muslim fundamentalists in this country."

Nope.

AReasonableMan said...

Fabi said...
What the fuck is a "gun fundamentalist"


Anyone who believes that the vast amount of armaments accumulated in this country make us safer rather than less safe. Anyone who can't acknowledge that no one 'needs' an AR-15. Anyone who believes that a document written more than two centuries ago justifies ownership of an AR-15. Anyone who believes that someone on the the no-fly list should be able to purchase as many AR-15's as they want.

AReasonableMan said...

I Callahan said...
That's because the "gun culture" had NOTHING to do with what happened. Whatsoever. Using your logic, Anders Breivik really didn't mow down 70 people. Because there is no gun culture in Norway.

You know, it's ironic - gun owners are seen as the cause of so many things wrong in this country, when they had nothing to do with those things that go wrong.


Anders Breivik was a gun owner.

LarsPorsena said...

"Gun fundamentalists are as big a problem as muslim fundamentalists in this country."

Play at moral equivalence much?

LarsPorsena said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LarsPorsena said...

The gun fundamentalists and the 'we can act with impunity in the muslim world' fundamentalists are making my life less secure.

Yes, of course. Why didn't I see this? We brought this upon ourselves. I guess we deserve it?

The Left loves the whole world but can't stand their fellow countrymen.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

AReasonableMan said...Anyone who believes that someone on the the no-fly list should be able to purchase as many AR-15's as they want.

Wait, isn't that what the law actually says, though? I mean, legally isn't that the case now? So anyone who doesn't want to change that law is a "gun fundamentalist?"


Anyone who can't acknowledge that no one 'needs' an AR-15. nyone who believes that a document written more than two centuries ago justifies ownership of an AR-15.
No one "needs" a blog, or a newspaper, or a Twitter or Facebook account...but the 1st Amendment nevertheless covers those forms of expression. The Constitution even "justifies" ownership & use of these new forms of (mass) communication & expression, even though that document, written "more than two centuries ago" couldn't have anticipated their existence.

Come on, ARM, remember that it's a living document! Also, respect democracy--the people write the laws, and the people have spoken w/r/t firearms. Isn't that the Lefty line on all sorts of other issues--the Constitution has to be interpreted in a way that comports with modern reality & we have to respect the will of the people as attitudes and beliefs evolve. Well, ok--the people have spoken by writing laws concerning firearm ownership (including those that have allowed millions of AR-15 style weapons to be owned throughout this nation) and the 2nd Amendment has to be interpreted in light of the actual modern reality (of widespread personal firearm ownership). Right? Why get all "originalist" now, man? Justice Scalia is dead. Living document, will of the people!

Achilles said...

AReasonableMan said...

"Anyone who believes that the vast amount of armaments accumulated in this country make us safer rather than less safe. Anyone who can't acknowledge that no one 'needs' an AR-15. Anyone who believes that a document written more than two centuries ago justifies ownership of an AR-15. Anyone who believes that someone on the the no-fly list should be able to purchase as many AR-15's as they want."

1. This event happened in a gun free zone. That is why this person went there. People like you are more responsible for this attack that gun fundamentalists like me. My policies would have a much better chance to have stopped this attack than yours.

2. Self defense is fundamental. We have the right, given to us by powers higher than government, to defend ourselves. That right was taken from all of the victims in this tragedy by people like you.

Quaestor said...

The Non-Reasonable Jackanape wrote: I'm giving you half the argument, we can block immigration from muslim countries if you like, but you still can't concede that our sick gun culture is also a problem.

Not can't, won't. Because your claim is crock full of shit.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

ARM said...I'm giving you half the argument, we can block immigration from muslim countries if you like, but you still can't concede that our sick gun culture is also a problem.

Isn't that how the amnesty in '86 went, too? It was a grand bargain--we'd make everyone already here legal in exchange for a real crackdown on future illegal immigration/preventing any future illegal immigration. How'd that work out? How many millions of illegals came here since then--12 million, 20 million, more?

I don't believe you have an intention of keeping your side of any such bargain, ARM; I have excellent reasons not to believe you.

Quaestor said...

Anders Breivik was a gun owner.

He also owned a car, a smartphone, and a Mac. ARM's jejune attempt at a tarring with a broad brush is about as intellectually honest has drawing a parallel between Al Capone and Karol Wojtyła based on their shared Catholicism.

Quaestor said...

Fabi wrote: What the fuck is a "gun fundamentalist"?

ARM wrote in reply: Anyone who believes that the vast amount of armaments accumulated in this country make us safer rather than less safe. Anyone who can't acknowledge that no one 'needs' an AR-15...

In other words anyone who doesn't conform to ARM's prejudices is as dangerous as a Muslim terrorist.

If you're looking for a working example of a bigoted mentality in action one need look no further than the latest AReasonableMan comment.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Quaestor said...In other words anyone who doesn't conform to ARM's prejudices is as dangerous as a Muslim terrorist.

Yep, that's the message we gun-owning people on the non-Left always get--the Media & Left are certain we're the real enemies, we're the real danger, we're the ones who need to be contained & watched. Then they wonder why we aren't more reasonable, more willing to compromise! Mysterious.

Hagar said...

#hen I grew up in Norway, target shooting with the Krag-Jørgensen rifle (6.5x55 Swedish) was the most popular sport after football (soccer to you).

Is it possible to get it into ARM's polished marble cranium that an AR-15 is no more dangerous than any other semi-automatic rifle?

Fabi said...

At the time that document was written, private individuals owned cannon and warships, so go fuck yourself ARM.

Hagar said...

It should be pointed out that there are all kinds of knock-offs made to "look like" an AR-15, but do not have the AR-15 action, which is what makes an AR-15 an AR-15.
Also there are actual AR-15s, i.e., they do have AR-15 actions, made in configurations to look like "hunting-style rifles."

Meade said...

AReasonableMan said...
"Anyone who believes that the vast amount of armaments accumulated in this country make us safer rather than less safe. Anyone who can't acknowledge that no one 'needs' an AR-15. Anyone who believes that a document written more than two centuries ago justifies ownership of an AR-15. Anyone who believes that someone on the the no-fly list should be able to purchase as many AR-15's as they want."

You left out anyone who believes that there is an individual right against the power of the central government to confiscate muskets.

JAORE said...

Anyone who believes that a document written more than two centuries ago justifies...

Believes in America? That 200 year old document, for many of us, is a large part of what sets America apart. It enumerates the rights of the PEOPLE. But, you have a point, things change in 200 years.

Should free speech be limited to pamphlets printed with block type or via town criers?

Should freedom of religion only apply to those religions present in America at the time of the signing of the Constitution?

Rusty said...

ARMs argument sounds like something that's ben honed in a faculty lounge somewhere. A place where thee most dangerous thing is a Kurig.

It's perfectly legal for me to own a black powder six pound brass cannon and a Gatling gun. Hmmm. I think it may be easier to make the Gatling gun. Certainly a more challenging project.

AReasonableMan said...

According to you guys, muslim terrorism is an enormous problem, an existential threat to the nation. To deal with the problem I offer a reasonable compromise, which elicits near hysterical responses. As a moderate I can say with absolute certainty that you will not get a better deal from liberals and you need a deal if you want to stop muslims from entering the country. Either you are bullshitting about the threat muslims pose or you are just bullshitting full stop.

AReasonableMan said...

Fabi said...
At the time that document was written, private individuals owned cannon and warships, so go fuck yourself ARM.


I am fine with with grandfathering any cannon and warships that were extant at the time the constitution was written into any agreement.

Gabriel said...

@A Reasonable Man:no one needs an AR-15

Can you tell me about the capabilities of this superweapon of which you speak, so I can decide if your comment that "no one needs one" is reasonable?

Gabriel said...

@A Reasonable Man:To deal with the problem I offer a reasonable compromise, which elicits near hysterical responses.

Your "compromise" would entail a ban on most rifles. As I alluded to in my earlier comment, which you did not answer, an AR-15 is an ordinary semi-automatic rifle perfectly legal for civilians even in France and Germany. It is not a "machine gun".

Any regulation that would ban AR-15s is either a) based on cosmetic features of the gun, hence useless or b) a sweeping rollback of gun rights that would affect most gun owners in the US and most of their guns.

So which did you intend: a) or b)?

My name goes here. said...

"Gun fundamentalists are as big a problem as muslim fundamentalists in this country."

You know ARM, if you had said that gun fundamentalists (whatever the hell that means) make it easier for muslim fundamentalists to kill en mass you might have actually managed to create a conversation.

Someone might have asked you why is the AR-15 so bad? How is it worse than any other semi-automatic rifle?

AReasonableMan said...

My name goes here. said...
Someone might have asked you why is the AR-15 so bad? How is it worse than any other semi-automatic rifle?


This is a trivial and uninteresting technical question. The ranking of 'existential' priorities, on the other hand, should be of interest to anyone.

Gabriel said...

@A Reasonable Man:The ranking of 'existential' priorities, on the other hand, should be of interest to anyone.

I see, it is the existence of legal guns you object to. SO when you say "no one needs a AR-15" you actually mean "no one needs a gun of any kind".

Be forthright enough to say so.

Gabriel said...

After all we need to evaluate your "reasonable compromise", which turns out, unsurprisingly, to be the total deprivation of an enumerated Constitutional right.

It always does, hence the "hysterical" reaction you complained of.

Rusty said...

AReasonableMan said...
"According to you guys, muslim terrorism is an enormous problem, an existential threat to the nation. To deal with the problem I offer a reasonable compromise, which elicits near hysterical responses."

Since you don't know what firearm laws exist how can you offer a compromise?


" As a moderate I can say with absolute certainty that you will not get a better deal from liberals and you need a deal if you want to stop muslims from entering the country.

Arguing fact not in evidence. The end game of liberal policy is to ban all firearms in private hands. As per "Handgun Control Inc." That is not moderate. You are not a moderate.


" Either you are bullshitting about the threat muslims pose or you are just bullshitting full stop."

There are some people in Orlando that would like to show you. Perhaps you should quit bullshitting us.