June 15, 2016

"Did you see how dark it was? It’s likely that more people would have been killed" in Orlando if the clubgoers had been armed.

Said Bill Clinton.

IN THE COMMENTS: JAORE said:
Oh yeah, I might note that the sights on my carry pistol work VERY well in low light situations.

But thanks for the lesson, Slick. 

105 comments:

The Bergall said...

Seeking relevancy...........

Renee said...

Ban dark rooms, no Constitutional issue then.

David Begley said...

Lights could have been turned on.

How about this Dems? Obama should have kept troops in Iraq after we won. And once ISIS got going, Obama should have crushed ISIS with overwhelming military force. Mr. Orlando killer then never would have joined ISIS if it was wiped out.

The thought of the Clintons running their mouths with their ineffective ideas for four years is dispiriting.

eric said...

Thanks #NeverTrump.

Because of you we will hear this for the next four to eight years.

EDH said...

Gays can't shoot straight?

Obvious homophobia.

Owen said...

Counterfactuals are a dime a dozen. This was just a way for Bill to smack Trump. It could be argued just as plausibly that if the killer had started taking fire from the crowd, he would have had to take shelter and stop firing. When the cop in Bataclan returned fire, it forced at least a few of the killers to do that.

But I guess in Clinton's world it is better to wait 3 hours, bleeding to death, while SWAT tries to summon the courage to break in.

Renee said...

I'll buy a pair of night vision goggles next time I'm the designated driver at the club.

Tank said...

Second possibility: One of the "clubgoers" might have shot the terrorist sometime before he shot more than 100 people.

traditionalguy said...

Believe in sweet old Bill's nonsense and you will end up where all of Clinton's seduced women ended up...raped and humiliated that you were so dumb that you believed a Clinton about anything.

Jim said...

A proper answer to billy bob would be from the gun rights group Pink Pistols. But not the response obama or hillary or the media want to see or hear about.

JAORE said...

Faithful adherence to the narrative.

Wasn't a failure of the Obama/Clinton administration's ISIS policies.....

Wasn't related to Islam.....

Wasn't related to the issue of refugees from the ME.....

Wasn't related to PC dissuading authorities to take the killer seriously over the past few years....

It was the gun, the whole gun and nothing but the gun.





YoungHegelian said...

Are we then to assume that the shooter shot 100 people in the dark by random luck?

If the shooter could see well enough to hit his targets, an armed club-goer could see well enough to shoot him.

JAORE said...

Oh yeah, I might note that the sights on my carry pistol work VERY well in low light situations.

But thanks for the lesson, Slick.

Brando said...

It's hard to say what may or may not have happened--sure, some people with guns would have shot wildly and hit bystanders, and others are responsible and well-trained enough that they would not shoot unless they had a clear shot that was not likely to hit anyone but their target. But where a killer has a mass of unarmed people and has a turkey shoot, it's hard not to wonder what may have happened if there was one responsible armed person there able to shoot back. Even if they missed, there's a likelihood the killer would have to take cover, and not have such an easy time picking targets.

harrogate said...

If we had people carrying guns into bars and nightclubs, there would be so very many more gun murders in bars than already we have seen over the years. And more mass killings, as well.

If you think a nightclub or bar full of people packing heat is a good idea, you're in deep trouble mentally.

Owen said...

Jim said: "...A proper answer to billy bob would be from the gun rights group Pink Pistols…" Amen. Something tells me that a lot of members of that community are going to be visiting gun shops in the near future. An enterprising instructor could even think about offering courses in relevant tactics. "See this table? You can lift the top off and use it as a shield as you charge the shooter. It will stop a 9 mm round, but not a .223. But this other table? It would stop both. Maybe you want to lobby club owners to upgrade their furniture…" Lots of possibilities here.

Limited blogger said...

That's all you got, Willy? Your game has gone soft.

Static Ping said...

It boggles.

cubanbob said...

Being senile Bill thinks gays can't see as well in the dark as gay Islamic terrorists. Did he pick up some disease on pedophile island that has infected his brain?

Twenty five years ago Bill was a much better bullshitter or was it that we were simply more naive then? Don't blame me, I never voted for him. My conscious is clear.

Rusty said...

harrogate said...
If we had people carrying guns into bars and nightclubs, there would be so very many more gun murders in bars than already we have seen over the years. And more mass killings, as well.

If you think a nightclub or bar full of people packing heat is a good idea, you're in deep trouble mentally.

Cop bar?
I like how you can just make shit and expect to be believed.

Rusty said...

I think all that excess sperm has backed up into Bills brain.

Mrs Whatsit said...

The lights were apparently bright enough for the shooter to see his victims -- at least, he seems to have managed somehow to hit quite a few people.

I wonder how that works, that in Bill-Clinton-World there's plenty of light for the bad guy to see and kill his victims, but it's too dark for the victims to shoot back. Do good guys -- or gay people, or Latinos, or however he's characterizing the victims -- have eyes that require more light than bad guys? Or are they just so much worse at aiming than the bad guys are that they shouldn't be allowed to try to defend themselves?

Trying to find some form of logic here, but without much luck so far.

Fernandinande said...

Good thing Billary wasn't there with his armed guards. It coulda been a massacre.

Meeeea said...

How does he know how dark it was?

Was it dark from initial shots on?

Was the bathroom where people were hiding atop toilets and some were murdered dark?

Hagar said...

"Radical Islam," or whatever you want to call it, is at war with everybody - full circle around its center in the Middle East - not just the United States.

There are also a couple, three, or four wars between more or less conventional state entities going, and our troops are being killed in the crossfire there.

We are entitled to a clear exposition from the President as to exactly what he thinks the situation is and what he intends to do about it.

So far, all we have gotten is a cloud of words.

This will not do. We are not just going to hunker down and accept this as the "new normal."

Michael The Magnificent said...

If they really keep the club pitch black, which I find impossible to believe (how would patrons find their way to the bar, to someone they want to meet, to the bathrooms, to the exit to go home at night without tripping over each other?), your eyes would see the muzzle flash clear as a flash bulb, and your ears would be able to tell you the general direction of the gunfire.

I swear, this is the dumbest excuse I've heard yet against CCW. My finger doesn't touch the trigger until I've identified the target, know what's behind my target, and I'm ready to shoot. Until then, my finger is off and outside.

If they insist on flapping their gums endlessly on rationalizations for taking away my rights, the least lefties could do is spend an afternoon getting some remedial gun training so they don't sound so willfully ignorant.

Darrell said...

Bill Clinton says that clubbers should have formed Broadway kick lines to fight the disturbed gunman.

EDH said...

Two words: muzzle flash.

n.n said...

The right to self-defense is an unalienable human right. The right to be armed could have been restricted by private businesses, individually, but that right has been nullified through justice's doctrines of selective exclusion ("="), false sex equivalence, [class] diversity, and other behavior-modifying protocols (i.e. "morality") that undermine reconciliation of moral and natural imperatives.

That said, elective abortion, and certainly mass abortions, are always a tragedy, whether they are planned, provoked, or impulsive.

MrCharlie2 said...

"Cop bar"? That's an argument?

Everyone, at least everyone anywhere near NYC, knows there are lots of late night shootings and stabbings in bars and clubs. Stupid people get drunk, offend each other, best they just have improvised weapons.

That's why big raucous places have bouncers checking for weapons on the way in. To keep a lid on the inevitable mayhem. Mass killings isn't what they were mostly worried about (things change).

No, you don't want stupid drunks (aka good guys with guns) carrying their instant machismo into these places.

Larry J said...

Brando said...
It's hard to say what may or may not have happened--sure, some people with guns would have shot wildly and hit bystanders, and others are responsible and well-trained enough that they would not shoot unless they had a clear shot that was not likely to hit anyone but their target. But where a killer has a mass of unarmed people and has a turkey shoot, it's hard not to wonder what may have happened if there was one responsible armed person there able to shoot back. Even if they missed, there's a likelihood the killer would have to take cover, and not have such an easy time picking targets.


In addition, what often happens when a shooter is confronted by armed opposition, the shooter ends up killing himself to avoid capture. Even if the defender is unable to hit the shooter, shooting back has value. Unfortunately, under Florida law, it's illegal to do either concealed or open carry in places that serve alcohol.

TCom said...

Funny how the anti-gunners want to treat the populace as perpetual children to be kept in permanent kindergarten.

They surely don't think we are competent to choose our leaders, either. Something to consider.

Meeeea said...

Hagar, you might like this article over at thecatholicthing.org, excerpt:

"Orlando is home to Disney World, Sea World, Universal Studios, and the Orlando Magic basketball team. It’s my home. Many of us have felt that, eventually, jihad had to surface here. And it will come calling on any town, your town, any day now, unless we summon the collective courage to face our true enemy.

The “home of the free” is under attack, as is, indeed, the whole world. America cannot defend herself – her children, her workers, her gay people, her athletes, her religious people, or her domestic and international visitors – with false pretenses. Nor can France or Belgium or any nation, as long as our leaders bow to political correctness and refuse to admit that Islamic jihad has declared war on Western Civilization."

Quaestor said...

Bill Clinton says that clubbers should have formed Broadway kick lines to fight the disturbed gunman.

Quite a lot of them could have hummed some appropriate show tunes. (Egad! Homophobic joke! Bad, Quaestor! Bad!)

SteveR said...

Bill is used to getting away with lying and bull shitting. Certain people have allowed he, and Hillary, to do this for so long, and he's never learned. Other people have tolerated this obvious dishonesty for pure selfish political gains or power.

Intellectually honest people would at least admit this.

The Drill SGT said...

harrogate said...
If we had people carrying guns into bars and nightclubs, there would be so very many more gun murders in bars than already we have seen over the years. And more mass killings, as well.


You and Bill need to get out more. You think all the people in all those Harlem clubs near Bill's office drink without packing heat?

You ever been to a Cop bar? A Biker bar? a Western Bar?

Rachel said...

Man With 24/7 Armed Security Insists Unwashed Masses Don't Need Armed Security

There's a more accurate headline.

madAsHell said...

The shooter didn't seem to have any problem finding targets.

Gusty Winds said...

Eyewitnesses are saying someone was blocking an alternative exit. This is from the PalmBeach Post. WTF?

“Everybody dropped to the floor. We were trying to look for an exit. But the main exit was right next to the entrance where the shooter was shooting," he said.

“In a moment of desperation we were all crawling on the floor trying to find a place to exit. I looked to my right and I could see people going through some curtains. We were digging through the curtains and found a door."

But he said the door was blocked by a man. He wasn’t sure if it was a club security person or an accomplice to the gunmen.

“Fifty people were trying to jump over each other trying to exit the place. There was a guy holding the door and not letting us exit. He’s like ‘Stay inside, stay inside.’ As he is saying that, the shooter keeps getting closer and closer and the sound of the bullets is getting closer. Everyone starts to panic. People are getting trampled. Let us out, let us out"

Michael said...

If it was so fucking dark in the club, Billy, then why didn't three or four of those well cut men take a run at the shooter.

Hagar said...

... as long as our leaders bow to political correctness and refuse to admit that Islamic jihad has declared war on Western Civilization."

China, India, Kenya, Nigeria, etc. etc. are not exactly bastions of "Western civilization," but they are under attack just as we are, and even more so in terms of bloodshed.
Not to mention the Moslem states themselves, of course.

AReasonableMan said...

The Drill SGT said...
A Biker bar?


How did that biker bar in Texas work out?

holdfast said...

People who are drinking should not be carrying guns (don't ask me how I feel about off-duty cops who get liquored up and then shoot random stuff). Even if you think you MIGHT be drinking, it's better not to carry. It's also tough for even sober folks who are on the crowded dance-floor or waitresses moving around in tight spaces.

But what about the club manager, the guy collecting the cover charge and the bartenders stationed behind the bar? If they aren't drinking, there's no reason why they should not be carrying (assuming they can pass the background check and want to do so). Unlike a lot of "artificial" gun-free zones, there are good reasons why most of the patrons in a club or bar are usually not armed.

One other thing, if you are going to have armed security (usually at the entrance) have at least 2 guards and put some distance between them so they cannot both be taken out quickly by the same shooter.

MikeR said...

:O Isn't he aware that _fifty_ people were murdered there? I just can't imagine how more could have been killed, how even more than a few could have been killed. Does he picture dozens of people firing automatic weapons widely in all directions? Incredible.

Meeeea said...

Gusty, in another account of the door-blocking, a person that was holding the door shut said the alley which the door led to was packed with people trying to get through a small hole in the fence, and that they held it shut for two reasons, one, to allow those out to get through the fence without getting trampled, and two, they claim they didn't know if the shooter was on the other side of the door. (And lots have asked why didn't people climb the fence, or at least form a human ladder and/or help boost others over.)

David Begley said...

Dad of the killer said club should have had better security. I kid you not.

virgil xenophon said...

Yeah, Obama has a plan to take care of the terrorist problem alright. It's called The Ostrich Plan..

The Drill SGT said...

One other thing, if you are going to have armed security (usually at the entrance) have at least 2 guards and put some distance between them so they cannot both be taken out quickly by the same shooter.

I always liked the Western Movie scene where there is a shootout in the bar and the grizzled bartender drops behind the bar, only to reemerge with a double barreled 10 gauge.

MrCharlie2 said...

Michael said...
If it was so fucking dark in the club, Billy, then why didn't three or four of those well cut men take a run at the shooter.


I've been wondering about that too.

Brando said...

"In addition, what often happens when a shooter is confronted by armed opposition, the shooter ends up killing himself to avoid capture. Even if the defender is unable to hit the shooter, shooting back has value. Unfortunately, under Florida law, it's illegal to do either concealed or open carry in places that serve alcohol."

That's bad, but it's worse here in Maryland. We're one of only a few states to basically not allow concealed carry. And then there's the question of whether some states will honor permits granted by other states.

Rick said...

In any other field advancing speculation as evidence would lead to ridicule. In fact it often does even in politics - but never for the anointed.

Michael The Magnificent said...

If we had people carrying guns into bars and nightclubs, there would be so very many more gun murders in bars than already we have seen over the years. And more mass killings, as well.

The night the CCW application form came on line at the WI DOJ, I dropped my application in the mail. It was issued on November 7, 2011.

So, nearly five years on, I and over 300,000 other Wisconsinites have been able to carry in bars. We aren't permitted to drink and carry. Perhaps you'll have better luck, but I've only found one story of a permit holder being convicted for shooting someone in a bar. VPC reports only TWO, out of 300,000 WI permit holders, as having been convicted for shooting someone, neither case inside of a bar.

holdfast said...

CCW holders aren't perfect, but statistically we're at least as good as cops when it comes to obeying the law. Once you have a CCW, you REALLY don't want to lose it and that usually promotes a level of responsibility that is higher than an average person might demonstrate. Unless you are bonded or professionally licensed, getting in a bar fight is usually not a big deal. If you have a CCW, even if you're not carrying at the time, it's a great way to lose that license for life.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

You can score the stupid thing Bill Clinton said as a gaffe, but only if you admit it's true.

We don't actually know that none of the other clubgoers had a gun. 7% of Floridians have concealed weapon permits (which would be a higher percentage with regard to adults). With 300 people inside the club, the odds are that 21 people had gun permits and close to 100% that someone other than the madman did.

Perhaps they weren't carrying (but I've heard some people carry even in gun free zones). Perhaps some were and didn't draw because of the low light and risk of hitting innocents. Or perhaps they were able to flee and thought that was the best way to protect themselves.

We do know that the officer on detail duty at the scene got off some number of rounds without stopping the madman. He and the two officers that joined him didn't immediately follow the madman into the club, perhaps in part due to the kinds of considerations to which Bill Clinton has alluded.

Drago said...

Harrogate: "If we had people carrying guns into bars and nightclubs, there would be so very many more gun murders in bars than already we have seen over the years. And more mass killings, as well."

#LeftyScience

Drago said...

ARM: "How did that biker bar in Texas work out?"

You mean there are so few incidents that you felt confident everyone would immediately know the incident to which you were referring?

Thanks for inadvertently conceding the point.

Though, for balance, I have appreciated some of ARM's political commentary in recent months even if I disagree with some of his conclusions.

mikee said...

When I want info on how to find a bimbo in the dark, I'll go to Slick Willie Clinton.
On most other subjects, his advice is worth nothing.

Rumpletweezer said...

No one in the bar has to carry. The prospect that SOMEONE might be carrying is the deterrent.

Jack Wayne said...

ARM, please keep up with the news. 4 of 9 dead bikers in Waco were killed by the police. And it was at a Twin Peaks which serves drinks but also food so I think of it as a sports bar/restaurant. And it was in the parking lot. Other than that, good use of a trope.

damikesc said...

Slick Willie has never fired a gun in his life, most likely.

Sitting back and waiting to die was a failed strategy, but one he still subscribes to.

William said...

I hope Disney has an armed, rapid response team at their parks. It would be a good idea for clubs to also have armed security on the premises. Of course, none of these precautions would work if they hired someone like this shooter as security.......It's very difficult to imagine a scenario that would have a worst outcome. Perhaps if the terrorist was forced to use an arson weapon the death toll would have been higher and the deaths more painful.

Curious George said...

Places not dark:

Sandy Hook Elementary School
Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California
Class rooms of Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
Columbine High School
Umpqua Community College
Chattanooga, Tenn. recruitment centers
Fort Hood #1 and #2
Oikos University classrooms

You know what else they had in common?

Billy boy, stick to playing hide the cigar and jetting off to fuck 12 y/o prostitutes.

Bruce Hayden said...

Man With 24/7 Armed Security Insists Unwashed Masses Don't Need Armed Security

My thoughts too. Clinton has had government funded security for probably better than 30 years, and 24 with machine gun toting Secret Service agents. Sure, now he could afford his own, but why bother, since the Secret Service doesn't have to worry about concealed carry or machine gun permits.

Owen said...

Bruce Hayden said: "...Sure, now [Clinton] could afford his own, but why bother, since the Secret Service doesn't have to worry about concealed carry or machine gun permits." Plus the Secret Service has better hooker service.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Shorter Billy Jeff: just submit.

Jason said...

Bill Clinton says that clubbers should have formed Broadway kick lines to fight the disturbed gunman.

HE HATES THESE CAN-CANS!!!!!

Rusty said...

MrCharlie2 said...
"Cop bar"? That's an argument?

"Everyone, at least everyone anywhere near NYC, knows there are lots of late night shootings and stabbings in bars and clubs. Stupid people get drunk, offend each other, best they just have improvised weapons."


Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it illegal to carry in NYC? And aren't cops armed when they're off duty? So it stands to reason that there would be a lot of armed people in a cop bar. By Harrogate's logic there ought to be nothing but dead bodies in the bar.

Betcha half the people in bars in Dallas are packin'. None of the people in bars in Chicago are. Where would you like to be?

Jason said...

The terrorist attack on the "Draw Mohammed Contest" in Garland, Texas sure ended quickly.

A lot faster than 3 hours.

Gusty Winds said...

Here's the guy that held the door shut while people were trying to escape. Here interviewed by Megyn Kelly, and he was also interviewed by George Stephanopoulos on ABC.

His name is Luis Baron, and there is something strange about his demeanor. He claims in the interview that he was with a guy outside the club and saw a bullet "sticking out of his leg" and the guy didn't even know it was there. You can almost see that Megyn Kelly is a little astonished at this guy's story.

At 4:50 in the interview Megyn Kelly clarifies with him that he held the door shut. He feigns emotion, saying he could hear people trying to get out.

Something is not right with this guys story, and it has not been widely covered since the interviews were given the day after.

EMD said...

How did that biker bar in Texas work out?

"Problematic" for the police:

mockturtle said...

Booze and firearms are not a good combination. Soft targets need armed security [EFFECTIVE armed security]. It has come to this.

MrCharlie2 said...

No one is talking about "cop bars".

May be we should be discussing "gay cop bars".

Fernandinande said...

Jason said...
'Bill Clinton says that clubbers should have formed Broadway kick lines to fight the disturbed gunman.'
HE HATES THESE CAN-CANS!!!!!


Only a jerk would say that.

Anthony said...

So a gay Muslim Democrat shoots a place up and it's still the fault of straight white Republicans.

James Pawlak said...

There has been at least one church in which an armed citizen prevented mass murder.

There are many cases in which such citizens have prevented mass murder by shooting the Jihadist or other criminal OR by the "mere" display of a firearm. That appears to be a "better thing" than allowing such critters to kill three-plus to meet the FBI's standard for mass murders.

RAH said...

Bill is just wrong If the victims were armed they would be pointing their guns to the ahooter so all the bullets would go in one direction.

Fustigator said...

how about some of the people in toilet stalls having to play dead while he washed his hands and dried them? Bet they could have used a gun to kill him before he decided to resume killing or making sure the previously injured were actually dead.

I dont envision a scenario where they are shooting wildly and killing a bunch of innocents huddled into closets, bathrooms, dressing rooms etc. Given 3 hours, i suspect they may have had time to differentiate the terrorist from innocents enough that they wouldnt have shot/wounded more than 100+ the terrorist actually did having free reign to do so for over 3 hours.

n.n said...

There is another point that must be considered. The perpetrator of a crime should not be afforded the luxury of knowing that his victims are vulnerable. Part of a security protocol is to manage risk through obscuring the opportunity cost to the offender.

buwaya said...

A quote from the proceedings of the Cortes of Valladolid in 1555 -

“a causa de haber arcabuces pequeños, con ellos se harían muertes
secretas, matando los hombres a traición y que no servían para otro efecto”.

There happen to be small aquebuses, with which are committed murders in secret, the killing of men through treachery, and which serve no other purpose.

Thereupon Phillip II in 1556 banned the manufacture or import of arquebuses with barrels shorter than four palms - i.e., handguns.

Comanche Voter said...

Billy Jeff never had a problem hitting a target in the dark. Especially if she was horizontal and not inclined to argue.

As for "there would have been more killed"--bushwah. There was, so far as we know one shooter. He had maybe 800 targets. He hit 103 of them. So Louie ad Huey, packing heat, break their dance to take pot shots at the shooter. They hit the shooter, and maybe a couple of other guys/gays/girls. But they stop the shooter when he still has 99 targets to go. Net result two or three--including the shooter--dead, and two or three wounded. A better outcome all around than what actually occurred.

But then Billy Jeff knows how to score, but he doesn't do math.

Big Mike said...

You aim behind the muzzle flash.

machine said...

cracking wise about Americans getting killed...this is the gop.

buwaya said...

Earlier - The monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella, during the Cortes of Toledo of 1480 (the Cortes, the Spanish Parliament, followed the peripatetic court in those days), issued an ordinance banning the discharge inside any municipality of "trueno ni espingarda ni serpentina, ni otro tiro alguno de pólvora ni ballesta” - i.e., the discharge of truenos (literally thunderers), espingards or serpentines (all at the time referring to types of artillery), nor any other shot of gunpowder or crossbow.

On the other hand, Ferdinand and Isabella issued ordinances (1492 and 1495) requiring their subjects to procure and maintain arms according to their condition, for "royal service, the execution of justice and persecution of evildoers". The middle estate, for instance, had to equip themselves with cuirass, helmet, sword and dagger, long lance, shield, thirty pieces of shot and three pounds of gunpowder.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Every time I see that argument I want to say, "Worse? How could it be worse? Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah!"

buwaya said...

On the utility of gun control -

In 1618 Philip III decreed that, regarding pistols, in spite of the severe sanctions already imposed on the use of such weapons (by Philip II), nothing had been achieved. On the contrary, the murder rate was still very high. Therefore it was necessary to adopt the necessary measures to punish whomever fired or simply carried them, or the armorers who made them, or merchants who sold them. It would become a new crime to merely possess pistols, even if not carried in public.

Evidently even this did not have the desired effect as in 1632 Philip IV again banned pistols.

And etc., etc., century after century.

coupe said...

Speaking of Clinton, Biden was speaking today and he said "if Al Gore had won the election, and I think he did, things would be different today". Meaning that the 10 year assault rifle ban would have become a permanent ban.

I think he said "and I think he did" jokingly, but he was as serious as a heart-attack, that banning a particular brand of rifle will make America great again.

You know, I don't give a crap about assault rifles. I think people who buy them have too much money. When I lived in Oregon, the Klamath Indians all had AR-15's in their truck rifle racks, because the government gave them $100k each when they sold their Reservation.

I just thought they were retarded individuals, and I still do today. There's so many great guns out there that Minuteman can use to kill our government leaders if they think the apocalypse is upon us.

I believe people who need or want 30 round clips are insane.

I'm not a liberal, I'm just a practical man. A practical rifle suits me just fine. I can say I support the 2nd Amendment, and I don't use weapons of mass destruction (WMD) or invest in companies who sell these products.

I watch videos like Survival Lily and she doesn't need an AK-47 or an AR-15 to survive in the woods. I think we could get by without them in the cities as well.

It's all about insanity. I believe the 1% who own the country are taking our lunch money and having us kill each other for sport, and they hand out pocket Constitutions to these losers, so the can read it after they beat their wives, kids, and dogs.

jr565 said...

If it was light enough to see someone shooting up the club its light enough to point your weapon at him and shoot him. he can see you. Therefore you can also see him right back. Unless he was wearing night vision goggles and the lights went out.

jr565 said...

I love how the shooter somehow can aim his gun and shoot 100 people. and yet anyone who would fire at him would be suffering from some sort of blindness. Because light totally works that way. Only the shooter can see. But if you shoot at him he gains invisibility.

MadisonMan said...

I was going to say something, but Big Mike already said it.

jr565 said...

coupe wrote:
I'm not a liberal, I'm just a practical man. A practical rifle suits me just fine. I can say I support the 2nd Amendment, and I don't use weapons of mass destruction (WMD) or invest in companies who sell these products.

I watch videos like Survival Lily and she doesn't need an AK-47 or an AR-15 to survive in the woods. I think we could get by without them in the cities as well.

a lot of rifles are functionally equivalent to an AR-15. the AR-15 just looks more like a military style weapons. So, a ban on assault rifles will hit a lot of people who don't have AR-15s but have practical style weapons.

mockturtle said...

I guess the weapons problem boils down to this: If the 'bad guys' have these assault-type weapons, won't we be hamstrung if we don't? Personally, I'd like to see some restriction on them but only if it were universally applied. And I don't believe that's possible.

Quaestor said...

Personally, I'd like to see some restriction on them but only if it were universally applied. And I don't believe that's possible.

Heroin, crack cocaine, methamphetamine, and a thousand other things are banned or have been banned. Consequently we have no addicts or organized crime in the good ole US of A. No private citizen in France may own a handgun or a rifle with a self-loading action or a magazine capacity of more than three rounds. We saw the wonderful result of that gun ban last November. Those Muslim fanatics were forced to kill their victims with flint-pointed spears, not having any access to fully automatic weapons...

Break me a fucking give.

coupe said...

Quaestor said...Heroin, crack cocaine, methamphetamine, and a thousand other things are banned or have been banned.

I think we all understand that argument. But if gun stores shelves don't have WMD, then most people will buy what they have. Instead of selling 50,000 select fire rifles every month, they will sell semi-automatic or bolt action rifles instead.

The end game is for the store to stay in business. Most of these dealers could care less what they sell. But they will only sell what is legal.

There will always be an underground. I've been offered drop-in sears for $50 at gun show parking lots. I see them selling all they had. Not being registered these things are a free ticket to jail, but you know, these people would be selling whiskey in the 30's.

There's a lot of insane criminals out there.

Michael K said...

"And more mass killings, as well."

Harrogate is going to tell us about all those NRA members and CCW holders convicted of mass shootings. Or any shootings.

Any day now, right harrogate ?

Clyde said...

Not everyone has a Secret Service detail 24/7 like Bill Clinton does (except for when they are dismissed on visits to Orgy Island). Most people are on their own when it comes to self-defense.

Rusty said...

I'm failing to see how 100 million gun owners are responsible for Muslim terrorism.

Michael The Magnificent said...

Instead of selling 50,000 select fire rifles every month, they will sell semi-automatic or bolt action rifles instead.

You've been taken in by the Democrat Party's propaganda.

The guns on your dealer's shelves are AR-15s, which are semi-automatic. A select-fire rifle, such as an M-16, is a class 3, National Firearms Act (NFA) weapon, is in limited supply, are quite expensive to purchase, and require several hoops to be jumped through.

Abdul Abulbul Amir said...


It really does not matter how well armed patrons would have responded. What matters is that Mateen would have likely chosen a gun free zone elsewhere. Perhaps with fewer victims.

Rusty said...

coupe said...
Quaestor said...Heroin, crack cocaine, methamphetamine, and a thousand other things are banned or have been banned.

I think we all understand that argument. But if gun stores shelves don't have WMD, then most people will buy what they have. Instead of selling 50,000 select fire rifles every month, they will sell semi-automatic or bolt action rifles instead.


Please stop posting about guns, because you don't know shit.

Big Mike said...

@coupe, you give away your lack of firearms knowledge when you refer to an AR as a "select fire" weapon. The definition of a select fire weapon is a rifle that can be switched between semi-automatic and fully automatic modes (plus safety). If you knew anything at all about long guns, as you pretended to in your post of 8:02, you'd know that at the very least. The AR-15 is not a select fire rifle. Period.

An AR-15 chambered in .223 or the military 5.56 round is not suitable for hunting. Period. Let's knock down that straw man right this minute. An AR-15 can be re-barreled for the .300 AAC Blackout round, which uses the same lower and magazines as the .223 version. The .300 Blackout round certainly is suitable for hunting, and people do use it that way, but the use case for an AR-15 in .223 is self defense. Period.

OTOH people do hunt with semi-automatic rifles. They use Rugers, they use AR's chambered in .300 Blackout or .308 Winchester, they use WWII-vintage Garands, and probably others.

Why is the AR-15 so popular? Its design, with a straight line from barrel through firing chamber through butt stock, lowers perceived recoil and the incorporation of a buffer tube into the design lowers actual recoil. Couple that with a stock that can be adjusted so that length of pull can be rapidly changed from that suitable for a petite woman to that suitable for a large man, and you have a winner. Add in the ease of customization, so that a person can choose to change from a red dot sight to a laser or change your iron sights; or could add or remove a forward hand grip, or move it closer to or further from the magazine well; or any of a number of other things and you have a winner. Add in light weight so that a petite woman can use it comfortably, and you have a winner.

So it's a winner. No wonder so many rifles are "AR-style." Other manufacturers want to win, too.

Oh, and that reminds me. The long gun used by young Mr. Omar Mateen in Orlando? Not an AR! It was a Sig Sauer MCX. The MCX has a rear hand grip, a detachable magazine, and features a lot of black polymer, but to me it looks hardly at all like an AR. That doesn't stop the ignorant -- presumably including you, coupe -- from calling it "AR-style." But, as I just wrote, it looks very different from an AR to me.

Thirty round magazines, who needs them? I was asked that very question just the other day. My answer was that if he could tell me how many people would participate in a home invasion scenario, and how often I'd miss, then I could tell him how many rounds I'd need. Home invasions are shockingly common here in the Washington, DC, suburbs. You see, if I want to end an invasion of my home alive and on my feet then it has to end -- has to! -- with ammunition still in my rifle. I don't care whether the invasion ends with no rounds fired and a full magazine, or ends with an empty magazine and one round in the chamber, or any number in between. If it ends with no ammo left in my rifle then I'm probably dead.

I don't own an AR, or "AR-style, rife," but I get why other people do.

Rusty said...

Big M
He's already had this explained to him.
He's either thick or a liar.

Unknown said...

Be kind to coupe, I think he is an insane person. I have not seen one post of his that would make me think anything else about him.

Big Mike said...

@Rusty, I'm "mansplaining" for anyone who doesn't know much about guns and mistakenly thinks maybe coupe does.

Rusty said...

Carry on, Big Mike. I admire your patience.

grackle said...

Be kind to coupe, I think he is an insane person.

The debate so far in my mind is between fruitcake or moby. I know it’s one of the two but my money’s on moby.