May 6, 2016

"It's a nuisance, it's a distraction, because he can't win the nomination and every dollar that he spends and every time she has to defend against an attack or answer some accusation of his..."

"... is money and time not spent defining Donald Trump and the Republican nominee. That's all it is at this point. I think people gave him a wide berth when he had a numeric chance but there is no math that ends up with his being the nominee, so at this point I think even the wins don't do anything but continue the inevitable problem of he can't get there from here."

Said Joe Trippi, disrespecting Bernie Sanders and all he has done. And it's simply not true that "there is no math." If Sanders keeps winning, it's possible for him to get ahead of Clinton in the non-super delegates. If that happens, the super delegates could flip.

ADDED: With all the help she had, all the money, all the name-recognition, what Sanders has done is truly astounding. If he overtakes her in the democratic process, how can the supers not respond. He'll only need half of them to win. In a year of unlikely occurrences, that seems almost ordinary.

AND: From John Cassidy in The New Yorker:
In the weeks ahead, the calls for Sanders to wrap up his campaign are likely to become more explicit. He seems certain to ignore them, and he has at least four reasons to do so. First, most of his supporters want him to keep going. Second, he still has a (very) slim chance of obtaining the nomination. Third, there isn’t much evidence that his dropping out would affect the result in November. And fourth, back in 2008, Clinton herself did something very similar to what Sanders is doing now, extending her primary contest with Barack Obama well beyond the point at which most commentators had concluded that she had no chance of winning....

Since the primary season began, Sanders has won more than nine million votes and finished ahead of Clinton in eighteen states. (Clinton has won more than twelve million votes and won twenty-three states.) Sanders continues to attract large crowds—on Thursday he will be campaigning in West Virginia—and he seems likely to win more primaries in the coming weeks, including in West Virginia, on May 10th, and Oregon, on May 17th. If he were to end his campaign now, many of his supporters would be furious, and even some Democrats who aren’t necessarily backing him would be disappointed. According to new poll from NBC News/Survey Monkey, fifty-seven per cent of Democrats and Democratic-leaners want Sanders to campaign until the Convention, and just sixteen per cent think he should drop out now. Eighty-nine per cent of Sanders’s supporters said they wanted him to keep going until July. More surprisingly, perhaps, twenty-eight per cent of Clinton’s supporters agreed....

68 comments:

MayBee said...

It's not just disrespecting Bernie Sanders, but all of the people who support him (many of them fervently).

Tank said...

Without the supercrookeddemocratdelegates, the count is:

Clinton 1683

Sanders 1362

So, just about even. If he wins the next few primaries, as he might, and overtakes Clinton in actual delegates won, he'll have a better-than-Trump argument that they are trying to fix the nomination and steal it from him.

How much fun would that be?

Curious George said...

" And it's simply not true that "there is no math." If Sanders keeps winning, it's possible for him to get ahead of Clinton in the non-super delegates. If that happens, the super delegates could flip."

Fucker will be Fort Marcy Parked before that happens.

MayBee said...

The real problem that Trippi doesn't want to talk about is Bernie in the race keeps pulling Hillary to the left.

$15/hour minimum wage, free college, free healthcare, no deportations, Black Lives Matter- all make the Democrats seem too absurd for the American voter. But Bernie pulls her there and makes her talk about it.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Henry said...

George,

I like that Fort Marcy Parked line but it does not trip lightly off the tongue.

Can we abbreviate it to FMP'd? Pronounced "fumped"

John Henry

edutcher said...

If Hillary keeps defining herself the way she did with her first anti-Trump ad, she'll do herself in.

pm317 said...

If Bernie was a young Black senator without experience they would have given him her delegates and called an end to his nonsense.

pm317 said...

I dare the Dems to nominate Bernie at the convention. Hillary should dare them and call his/their bluff.

MayBee said...

Is there anybody in the world talking about a Clinton/Sanders ticket? Why not?

and ha hahaha, pm317. Exactly

Gahrie said...

but there is no math that ends up with his being the nominee, so at this point

Surely an arrest and/or indictment could change this...isn't that the stated purpose of superdelegates?

John Henry said...

Hilary! has had one stroke already. Her husband said recently that it took her 6 months to recover. A couple months ago she was seen wearing the fresnel lenses in public. (In Las Vegas, IIRC) She never wears glasses in public so I am guessing she really needed them.

I think her dropping out for health is a real possibility. Both for real health issues or as an excuse if Bernie passes her in regular delegates.

The question is, will the Democrats let Bernie be the nominee? I don't think they have a choice but I also think it would be pretty stupid.

I've been wondering if Bernie is actually a member of the Democrat party and a few weeks ago I looked into it. Wikipedia says he joined the party in December last year. His Senate website does not say whether he is a D or not but does mention that he has been the longest serving independent in Congress. A bit ambiguously about whether he still is or not. His campaign site does not mention D affiliation but doesn't mention independent either.

Hilary! alluded to this a month or 2 back saying something like "We don't know if he is a Democrat or not".

Might this give the party an out? "How can we nominate someone who is not a party member? Let's go with Biden."

A bit hard to do at this point, though much easier last year or before Iowa. He could credibly claim that they were changing the rules. Having allowed him to get this far without saying something, can they start now?

The other thing is that he could simply join the Democrat party if he is not already.

John Henry

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Oh, come on. We all know that Republicans are the only divided party. CNN tells me so every night. The only time they mention Bernie is when he wins another state.

Actually, I think the Trump win may encourage Democrats to take a flyer on Bernie. Since common knowledge says the crude and brutal Trump can't win, they no longer need the leviathan that is Hillary. They have been freed from inevitable if they choose to be.

pm317 said...

Everybody is wondering why Trump is selling? You just have to look at the headlines on Memeorandum: for example,

David Samuels / New York Times:
The Aspiring Novelist Who Became Obama's Foreign-Policy Guru

His name is Ben Rhodes and he is the brother of one the news networks bosses and he is lately for some odd reason bragging about how Obama played the reporters for fools with his Iran deal.

But why Bernie is still in the game? Because of the same fools who elected Obama. Those headlines should be more than cautionary.

coupe said...

I'm not a doctor, but Clinton has been chronically obese for years. This leads to two facts: high blood pressure and diabetes.

With a distended abdomen like hers, there's also the fatty liver, which is probably filling her blood with glucose even as she takes handfuls of Metformin to keep her gut flushing.

I had a friend on Metformin, and he had to run to the bathroom, and finally started wearing Depends before he had a stroke and died.

The high blood pressure and Kidney failure is usually what gets obese people. They drop like a birdstrike on an airliner - pow! Right in the kisser. Broken teeth and everything...

Sebastian said...

What if Bernie pulls a Cruz and announces his VP now? Specifically, Liz Warren? Does he, do they have the guts?

traditionalguy said...

Hillary and Bernie are competing to see who has the Coal Miners taken out and shot first. The only thing that will stop these two Communists is armed citizen militias. Those coal miners are in their way to immense corruption from the faked Global Warming Hoax.

But now the coal miners have them a champion, and yon Paul Ryan with his lean and hungry look will not stop him except by killing him.

Hagar said...

Joe Trippi is a Democrat operative, so his job is to get Democrats elected, but there are bigger things in life.

I consider Bernie Sanders to be an unhinged crackpot, but an honest unhinged crackpot.

Curious George said...

"coupe said...
I had a friend on Metformin, and he had to run to the bathroom, and finally started wearing Depends before he had a stroke and died.

The high blood pressure and Kidney failure is usually what gets obese people. They drop like a birdstrike on an airliner - pow! Right in the kisser. Broken teeth and everything..."

Before that is it extremely painful?

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Clinton has been chronically obese for years

Uh, what?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Actual CNN chyron "headline" (as seen from the muted TV in the elevator in my building) on Sanders:
"Sanders Wins Indiana: Does it Help?"

Levi Starks said...

All socialists are a nuisance, right up until people start dying.

Rae said...

Bernie has to stay in the race until Hillary is cleared of charges.

Levi Starks said...

I listen to a fair amount of NPR, and the Bernie narrative from day one has been - when Bernie looses, he looses, and when Bernie wins, he also looses.
I would dearly love to be a behind the scenes witness to back room hand wringing strategy sessions at NPR, as they work to create a narrative of Hillary the nominee, while at the same time not alienating the Bernie supporters (which represent the bulk of their listenership).
Maybe I could get rich by creating a click bait site "one weird trick to get Bernie voters to stop hating Hillary"

Unknown said...

If you go by the realclearpolitucs polls, sanders is the strongest candidate.

Levi Starks said...

And once again, why all the hand wringing over Hillarys campaign since she's already been assured a landslide victory over Trump?

Bruce Hayden said...

Trippi is not only a Dem operative, but a long run Hillary surrogate. She is pissed off that Trump has pivoted to attacking her, and she has to keep campaigning against Sanders, and cannot spend the time and effort to reply. Simple as that. It was supposed to be locked up this time around by now, and isn't. Tough.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

I saw it on some middle-aged guy, wearing a sweatshirt: "Respect Everyone. Fear No One."

Not bad, I thought, so far as mottos go. More aspirational than inspirational.

Some sort of athletic coach, was my surmise.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said...With all the help she had, all the money, all the name-recognition, what Sanders has done is truly astounding. If he overtakes her in the democratic process, how can the supers not respond.

It's a bad year to ask "how can improbable/unexpected thing X happen?"

How can the Dem leadership really not be worried about Clinton facing some sort of official (law enforcement) consequences for her actions while SecState? Just kidding, that one's easy to understand (but damn difficult to swallow, if you'll pardon that idiom being used about something Clinton-related).

Tommy Duncan said...

Bernie is a true believer in the socialist utopia. He is attracting huge crowds who cheer wildly in response to his socialist proclamations. He is adored and praised while spreading the progressive religion. He knows Clinton is dirty and is himself quite pure.

Why would he abandon his campaign? He's having fun and people are actually listening to him.

veni vidi vici said...

But the Republicans are teh divided parteh!

sunsong said...

Bern on

JRoberts said...

After Bernie's Indiana win, the Democratic establishment must be very concerned about the California primary and want Bernie out before then.

Imagine the optics at this point if Bernie wins California - possibly big - but Clinton gets the nomination anyway due to super delegates. That doesn't even take the "FBI primary" into consideration.

YoungHegelian said...

One of my FB homies started on his "Bernie Should Go" claptrap, & I posted the following:

"X, we've lived through this before, with Ted Kennedy's challenge to Jimmy Carter in 1980, and it'll probably end the same way. I'm sure that Bernie's speech writers are already working on the the barnstormer of a speech he'll give at the convention, just like Ted Kennedy did (I remember watching the speech on TV in 1980 & it was an amazing speech).

Remember, that Bernie is the leader of the Social Democratic (& now even further left) wing of the Democratic Party. He has to fight through to the end so that, as a condition of his support for Clinton, his partisans end up with their share of positions in the Clinton administration. I mean, those folks have volunteered & worked loyally for Bernie, & he just can't leave them in the lurch & go home to sulk in peace. Personnel is policy, & the left wing of the Democratic Party wants its piece of the action in the Clinton administration. "

His response was to get snippy to what I saw as a very reasonable point.

Quaestor said...

Sanders is officially an independent who votes with the Democrats, which is mighty peculiar. What's the point of being independent if you're in lockstep with a party? Sanders also claims to be a socialist. What the hell does that mean?

Lenin, Trotsky, Bukharin, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, and George Bernard Shaw all claimed to be socialists — yet the only thing these men had in common was a visceral dislike of certain hats. There's an interesting bit of film of newly-appointed Chancellor Adolf Hitler walking to the Reichstag to be officially installed. Protocol required formal attire for the occasion, including a silk hat. However the self-identified socialist (I love that term, don't you? Self-identified, it means instant authenticity even if self-identifier is a total fraud.) knew his fellow socialist hated toppers, so he carried it instead of wearing it.

Anybody who isn't fundamentally stupid knows that socialism is a word without meaning. It's just virtue signaling. It's alleged opposite, capitalism, is also a meaningless word invented by socialists (two of them, actually) as a means to define an enemy. And yet a sizable majority of humanities professors self-identify as socialists, which ought to tell you something about the state of higher education in this country. Effectively a socialist is somebody who wants everything you've got — your money, your property, but especially your autonomy. A capitalist just wants your money, and in order to get it, is willing to trade something of his for it, which distinguishes the capitalist from a common thief, but not always. There are lots of different flavors of socialism, however the differences just boil down to at what level the guns come out. Many socialists try to bore you into submission — Surrender your liberty, neo-colonist scum, or dangerous tedium will ensue! — others just start shooting immediately.

The thing I don't understand about Sanders is why he's hasn't joined one of the dozens of self-identified (there's the magic word again!) socialist parties and just run for the presidency honestly, rather than contest with Hillary for the nomination of the thoroughly corrupt Democratic Party. Won't he be tainted by the party label which he has for all these years eschewed?

Quaestor said...

sunsong wrote: Bern on

Isn't that special?

eric said...

I know I've been harping on this in several threads, but this is why Hillary is running ads against Trump.

She wants to appear like it's over. Her commercials are meant for primary voters, not the general.

rcocean said...

I have no idea how Bernie and Hillary differ other than Bernie wants Free college for Everyone and Hillary just wants Free College for some.

Maybe some Bernie Bro can lay out the significant policy differences.

Howard said...

Quaestor: at least Sunsong doesn't vomit up pop philosophy theories and sophomoronic intellectual claptrap in a desperate attempt to hide the low self esteem of an armchair pontificater.

Howard said...

As long as Bernie and Trump supporters remain divided, Hitlary, Barry, Ryan and the Bushes win. That means that the bankers and the offshore whores win.

buwaya puti said...

I don't think there are enough regular Dem delegates still outstanding to get Sanders a majority in these. Even if he wins most primaries from here on Clinton will certainly get a proportion of delegates, and she will win a few primaries also.

We can assume the super delegates will start to flip if Sanders gets a majority of the proper ones, but that would be a necessary condition which seems extremely unlikely.

Curious George said...

"I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
Clinton has been chronically obese for years

Uh, what?"

You could show a movie on her ass. Well, if it wasn't so wrinkled that it.

tim in vermont said...

The press keeps the pillow over his face, never reporting on him. Still he wins.

tim in vermont said...

Just win baby, the rest will sort itself.

tim maguire said...

Anybody who's been pay attention or has an ounce of common sense knows that calls for Sanders to drop out are inversely proportional to the relevance of his campaign. After Hillary's big run in the Northeast, she was full of respect for the senator and his supporters. Then he came right back and beat her in Indiana and, all of a sudden, he can't win he needs to drop out!

Joe Trippi thinks you're stupid.

Levi Starks said...

While thinking about the absurdity of a 3rd party candidate, it occurred to me that there is a 4th option that would really blow up the system, a kind of MAD.
It works like this, Bernie and Ted agree to become the 3rd and 4th party candidates, assuring that no candidate will walk away with a majority. Imagine the hilarity that would ensue. Call me crazy, but I'm going to guess that in such a scenario you might easily have 4 candidates with each receiving about 25% of the vote.
Because that's just how divided we actually are.

Levi Starks said...

The race I would prefer to watch would be Bernie vs Trump,
A cage match pitting capitalism vs communism.

Kyzernick said...

Spoke with three more BernieBros on FB yesterday. I'd been waiting for two to reply, only one did, but I remembered 2 more that I'd seen post Bernie shit that showed up in me feed (nobody seems to be posting Clinton stuff - like, at all). I'm still trying to think of others that I've seen post (I'm not gonna go blind-hunting, but I'll follow a hunch).

Anyway, the one I got a reply from my original queries is also hoping Bernie makes the convention messy, and either forces Clinton leftwards or wins outright somehow. If Clinton takes it, he says he'll probably stay home. Not a Trump fan whatsoever, but it also didn't sound like he disagreed with Trump's opinion on illegals (which is all I queried him about, then we started talking about music).

The next guy said he was planning to vote for Trump. I asked him about his Bernie support, and his response was that his girl was a Bernie supporter who has switched to Clinton, and he was posting that stuff on her behalf. Seemed like he had considered Feeling the Bern for awhile, but realized pretty quickly his economics were fucked, so he's in Trump's camp. Can't stand Hillary. Once he began looking at the GOP he actually preferred Ben Carson, of all people, but he likes Trump's brashness and attitude (weird because they're polar opposites in that regard, meaning Carson and Trump). He's also half Puerto Rican (maybe Dominican - high school friend in NY from ages ago), so take that for what you will.

Last guy is the kicker, because he kinda/sorta supported Hillary until Bernie came along, like back in 2014 and before. He warmed to Bernie soon after he jumped in the race, and even went to a few debate watching parties. He still thinks Bernie has it, but if Hillary takes it away, he wants to register his displeasure at the process. He did not know much about superdelegates and establishment/insurgent candidacies, but as he learned he grew angry at the perception that the Dems are keeping Bernie down. Like Cryin' Simon, he plans to vote a punishment if his candidate isn't selected, and that means Trump over Clinton.

I will admit, still anecdotal. For all I know, these cats are lying to me (although after connecting with my car friend yesterday, we actually chilled at his house last night and talked shop. This guy already has a Trump hat, and I know he's being honest.). Some of the others I haven't spoke to in person since 2005. On the other hand, they also have no reason to lie to me, since we're cordial online and like/comment on each other's stuff from time to time (which is the whole reason they ever pop up in my news feed on FB). And on the gripping hand, maybe they're all conspiring to fuck with my perception, even though only 2 of the six even know each other as far as I know.

Gabriel said...

I don't know why anyone bothers with saying the delegate "math doesn't work out". Trump wasn't supposed to work out, and everyone (e. g., Nate Silver) who said so was wrong.

Math, like any other form of logic, is only guaranteed to derive correct results from correct premises. It can, with less than 100% certainty, derive mostly correct results from somewhat correct premises, but once you've gone that route you can't just say "because math" like it's 2 + 2 = 4.

Big Mike said...

And fourth, back in 2008, Clinton herself did something very similar to what Sanders is doing now, extending her primary contest with Barack Obama well beyond the point at which most commentators had concluded that she had no chance of winning....

Shorter Clintonista: Do as we tell you to, not as we've done.

Sanders should win West Virginia pretty easily -- the UMW rank and file remember who vowed to kill all coal jobs. She'd like to walk that statement back but there's no reason for Sanders or Trump to let her, not is there any reason for UMW rank and file to believe her when tries to "clarify" what she meant.

And Sanders has a fighting chance in California. If he wins California ...

mtrobertslaw said...

Along with the transcripts of her Wall Street speeches, Mother Clinton should release her weight. Is she obese or is she not?

buwaya said...

In the Sanders case it is 2+2=4 pretty much, unlike the case with Trump, which was based on polling.

There are 913 non-super delegates still available.
To get a majority of the primary delegates (2026 out of 4051)
Clinton needs 343 of these (37.6%)
Sanders needs 664 (72.7%)

Clinton can lose very badly in the remaining states and still hold a majority.
And there are several primaries coming up that she seems likely to do well in - New Jersey, Puerto Rico, etc.
And because most if not all of these aren't winner-take-all, delegates will be split.
Even in Indiana Clinton took 38 out of 83 (45.8%).
If she does that badly in the remaining primaries she still wins.

Richard Dolan said...

Wasn't it only yesterday that Drudge was leading with a story about Huma's being interviewed by the FBI, with Hillary! and several others still to come? Lots of leaks have been coming from the FBI, as well as critical commentary from former FBI guys with excellent connections to agents still in the bureau (e.g. John Good's piece a few weeks ago, arguing that the bureau would irrevocably tarnish its reputation if it didn't proceed -- he was the lead agent in the Abscam prosecution, among others). That's all a pretty good indication of how the agents working the case view it. However that ends, it will not be good for Hillary!.

The Dems would be well advised to expect the unexpected.

CStanley said...



The thing I don't understand about Sanders is why he's hasn't joined one of the dozens of self-identified (there's the magic word again!) socialist parties and just run for the presidency honestly, rather than contest with Hillary for the nomination of the thoroughly corrupt Democratic Party. Won't he be tainted by the party label which he has for all these years eschewed?


Well you could say the same about Trump, although in his defense I don't think there is an official "Making This Shit Up As We Go Along Party".

buwaya said...

" I don't think there is an official "Making This Shit Up As We Go Along Party"."

That's been the nature of politics since the Athenians started marking potsherds.
Whatever works this very moment.
Was just looking at some stuff on the South Sea bubble and Robert Walpole. Oh boy.

chickelit said...

Big Mike wrote: And Sanders has a fighting chance in California. If he wins California ...

I'm toying with voting for Sanders. As a registered Non Partisan, I can vote for D's but not R's in the primary. Go figure.

Robert Cook said...

"While thinking about the absurdity of a 3rd party candidate...."

Why, absurd? Frankly, given the choices provided by the two major parties, anything other than a 3rd party candidate is absurd. There isn't anyone who has put themselves forward as a candidate for the Presidency from either major party who is worth considering for even a nanosecond, who isn't contemptible. Bernie may be the least bad of a wretched lot, but he isn't worthy of the office, given his support for our campaign of mass murder around the world.

Achilles said...

Sanders is extremely popular on the west coast. He will win Oregon going away. California the same. A lot of Bernie supporters out here. He won Washington state with more than 70% of the vote in the caucuses.

mikee said...

Bernie? VP, to honor his lifetime devotion to Socialism, which Hillary also has, but has had to hide a bit from public view until she is dictator.

Venezuelan economics, here we come!

buwaya said...

"California the same.'

I wonder.
California has a huge black/Mexican vote that Oregon doesn't.
If you want a similar situation as far as the makeup of the local voters, especially in SoCal, consider Arizona and Nevada.

Michael said...

Robert Cook

You go, dude. Bernie on the 3rd party ballot. Virtue. Virtue. Virtue. Yes. The left's Ted Cruz.

Robert Cook said...

No Bernie. Jill Stein of the Green Party. I voted for her four years ago, too.

Gahrie said...

No Bernie. Jill Stein of the Watermelon Party

There, fixed that for you. By the way, I'm sure your handlers approve.

Robert Cook said...

Gabriel, I'm sure you think you're being clever, but I cannot detect any sense in your would-be quip.

Robert Cook said...

By Gabriel, of course I mean Gahrie.

Gahrie said...

Oh..then the sense is that the Green Party are a bunch of Commies who pretend to be green...(green on the outside, red on the inside) and that your handlers would approve of you voting Green.

Why is the Left's answer to every single problem in the universe to cripple the economy, enslave the people and empower the government?

Nichevo said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
kentuckyliz said...

I was enjoying this beautiful day driving around the mountains, and had libtard radio on...and a lot of callers are Bernie or Bust, Never Hillary, and will vote Jill Stein if Hillary gets the nomination.

Couldn't the Bern It Down people just wage a write in campaign?