April 15, 2016

"Given our policies, we are mystified as to why the current administration feels that forcing our club to accept female members would reduce the incidence of sexual assault on campus."

"Forcing single gender organizations to accept members of the opposite sex could potentially increase, not decrease the potential for sexual misconduct."

49 comments:

tola'at sfarim said...

the real question is why the dem presidential contenders want to make college tuition/debt free. Seeing as theyre crime ridden, and full of superpredators/rapists.

traditionalguy said...

The War on Men escalates.

mikee said...

Yeah, that whole sex thing, plus the First Amendment freedom of association. this sort of administrative forcing of diversity has been struck down in courts so often the student gov members and school admins should be ridiculed for their ignorance.

rhhardin said...

Things get weird when women run things, that's all he's saying.

Bob Boyd said...

Do they have any Muslims in the Porcellian Club?

tim maguire said...

How did someone who tries to think honestly and sensibly on a PC topic manage to get in to Harvard?

They're slipping.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

The apology has already been issued: "My personal comments in no way reflect the values and views of Harpoon Brewery."

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Are they going to force the Sororities to accept male members and let them live in the Sorority house?

I thought not.

Curious George said...

"Bob Boyd said...
Do they have any Muslims in the Porcellian Club?"

From the story: “no allegation of sexual assault has ever been made against the Porcellian Club. Sexual misconduct is absolutely unacceptable in all its forms but it is not an issue at the Porcellian Club,”

So no.

Owen said...

Well said but it's a lost cause.

We have yet to hit bottom and part of the Great Change will be not the incremental adjustment of institutions but their utter overthrow. All the brands will burn away and new forms will emerge. I think it likely that we will see a new interest in single-sex schools. If LGBTQ orthodoxy prevails, that could get complicated; but for most of us I think we have an enduring desire for places that honor a clear, coherent identity with good ethical values.

Curious George said...

On the other hand, they would have someone to make them sammiches.

JT said...

As I understand it, these clubs are private and are in no way affiliated with the university, receiving no funds or facilities from Harvard. Therefore, I'm not sure what role some Harvard bureaucrat has in dictating who a private organization allows to be a member.

I think the club president's letter should have simply read, "F#ck off," and let that be the end of it.

Mark said...

Dust Bunny, only if the men are trans. Then sororities would be required to have at least one Klinger per house.

Bob Boyd said...

porcellian
Noun
A member of the Porcellian Club.
Origin
From Latin porcellus (“piglet”) +‎ -ian after the dinners of roasted pig that the club originally held.

The Drill SGT said...

JT said...
As I understand it, these clubs are private and are in no way affiliated with the university, receiving no funds or facilities from Harvard. Therefore, I'm not sure what role some Harvard bureaucrat has in dictating who a private organization allows to be a member.


As I understand it, Harvard's position comes from the other direction. That they will forbid Harvard students from belonging.

Not sure how to enforce that.

And Harvard is private, so the 1st Amendment does not apply directly. IIRC

PB said...

At Harvard, there are 6 men-only final clubs, 5 women=only final clubs, and 2 coed-clubs. Seeking to force the men-only clubs without first converting the women-only clubs to coed would be typical liberal hypocrisy.

buwaya puti said...

They can just redefine themselves as a gun club, or machinists collective, or D&D group, or best of all all three, and they need not maintain any gender rules at all. There simply won't be any women members.

Bruce Hayden said...

There has always been a double standard when it comes to single sex organizations. Men can't have male only colleges, but women can. Ditto for male only clubs, etc. And, yes, it is probably worse on campus, because there women have even more power.

And, yes, I think that it is not good. Single sex schools likely benefit a lot of both sex (and, I don't mean turning a lot of the women in single sex colleges into LUG lesbians). In K-12, this is partly because the schools are now failing the males much worse than the females, and a good part of that is because they are taught by mostly female teachers who often teach in a way that works for girls, and doesn't for boys. Even STEM in college has moved this way - emphasizing group work over individual test scores and individual excellence. The entire education establishment has become a hostile environment for males.

You can still find some male spaces at schools and on campuses in the strictly male sports - the ones that haven't been cancelled in order to give females more opportunities (that they don't utilize nearly as much as the males do).

Rick said...

I can only presume this argument is somewhat mocking of the campus SJWs, which I applaud. Otherwise it seems to be admitting they are what the SJWs think they are.

rhhardin said...

The sailing club would be the place to look for equal opportunities, etymologically speaking.

Hagar said...

You are wrong about the gun thing, Buwaya. The guys in a company where I worked used to get together and go handgun silhouette shooting on weekends. Sometimes a group of women would show up and we absolutely hated it when they did because these women were much better shots than we. They had a little reloader circle and only came to our events to collect money for reloading supplies.

Dude1394 said...

People should be allowed to do whatever the heck they want to do. Single sex, single race, single language..whatever..

Governments are another story. I'm on the fence about businesses.

And the other folks should stay the heck out of it.

rcocean said...

Didn't the judges come up with some convoluted 'Black is really white' reason why Female colleges are OK, and male colleges are not?

Hagar said...

Harvard does not have a "mission." It is simply a business - and a rather profitable one.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

Then they came for the Porcellian Club, and I did not speak out—
Because I'd never heard of it before.

buwaya puti said...

Hagar,
There are women and there are women.
You, where you are, have a particularly fine selection of women it seems. I doubt Harvard is so fortunate.

Owen said...

Hagar: "...a business. And a rather profitable one." It has been (aptly IMHO) as a hedge fund that has captured a not-for-profit and, yes, it is profitable.

That feeds into the immediate issue. People with huge amounts of money are victimized by it: by their conceits, by sycophants and place-seekers. So Harvard and its fellow institutions are besieged not only by alumni hedge-fund mangers wanting to run its endowment, but by legions of "activists" adept at squeezing funds from bureaucracies to vindicate any number of hypothetical (but noisy) groups.

So the game proceeds. The Porcellian Clib is, in military terms, a demonstration. The real game is wherever the real money is.

Kai Jones said...

Poor buwaya! I shoot (have a CHL) and have been running a DnD campaign for a group of 5 men for about 4 years now; before that I was in an all-women DnD group.

Howard said...

Harvard is a private institute. They have the right to do whatever they want.

Buwaya puti: Cambridge is full of hot women... you just can't tell in winter. Come spring, the parkas come off and the trails along the Charles are full of joggeling Co-Eds.

rcocean said...

"Harvard is a private institute. They have the right to do whatever they want."

Actually, they don't. They're subject to the existing laws and have to follow Federal regulations if they wish to receive a dime of Federal money, directly or indirectly.

Sebastian said...

"“The College has for many months made it clear that the behaviors and attitudes espoused by unrecognized single gender social organizations at Harvard College remain at odds with the aspirations of the 21st century society to which the College hopes and expects our students will contribute,” Khurana wrote in an emailed statement." He's right, freedom of association and men socializing with men is at odds with 21st century Prog aspirations, which are to control everything and everyone, and to remake society into Prog paradise. Free association has always threatened such totalitarian control.

Bay Area Guy said...

In the normal world, there would be an easy solution:

1. Allow all male clubs
2. Allow all female clubs
3. Allow all co-ed clubs

The folks who didn't like the all male or all female clubs, could form or join a co-ed club.

The problem is left-wing activists who want to force change, at the expense of free association.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

You can see right away that his logic is both sound and will sink him. The point he's making (that if there aren't any women around there can't be any attacks on women) is true, but the truth isn't a defense against accusations of sexism (or racism, or homophobia, etc).

He'll be called a victim-blamer, for sure, and he'll probably be accused of admitting that the club can't prevent its members from assaulting women--essentially of admitting that the club is full of rapists.

Logic won't save you; truth won't save you; you're either on the side of the Leftists or you're out.

damikesc said...

the real question is why the dem presidential contenders want to make college tuition/debt free. Seeing as theyre crime ridden, and full of superpredators/rapists.

I'm baffled as to why no candidate has been asked about the rape "epidemic".

Are they going to force the Sororities to accept male members and let them live in the Sorority house?

I thought not.


I wonder about self-identified women.


Ladies, let me give you some advice: Sometimes, men don't want to deal with you. It's nothing personal. I'm sure there are times you don't want to deal with us. Let men have time where they can not deal with women and, odds are, they will be more pleasant when they are around you. But giving men NOWHERE to go where they don't have to deal with women is just asking for problems.

Levi Starks said...

I think the young minds are missing the point of the colleges mission.
It has less to do with educating them, and more to do with teaching them a lesson.

Levi Starks said...

There is demonstrable similarity, and difference in how males and females deal with sexual tension. Both groups recognize the benefit of a "safe space" where they can enjoy the freedom of indifference that being in a same sex only environment brings.
But you don't see organized groups of men packing up all they own in order to move to some utopian men only society where they can live lives of fulfillment free of any female influence.

tds said...

It's all about keeping an eye on men. They meet without supervision, they must be plotting something.

buwaya said...

"But you don't see organized groups of men packing up all they own in order to move to some utopian men only society where they can live lives of fulfillment free of any female influence. "

http://www.chartreux.org/en/monks/carthusian-day.php

Hagar said...

Harvard, Yale, and Goldman Sachs pretty much run the Government.

tim maguire said...

Howard said...Harvard is a private institute.

Except for the vast amounts of public money that flow into its coffers.

Cornroaster said...

Bruce Hayden - "There has always been a double standard when it comes to single sex organizations. Men can't have male only colleges, but women can."

Actually, I believe there are four all male colleges left, Wabash College in Indiana (my alma mater) Hampden-Sydney in Virginia, St. Johns in Minnesota and Morehouse in Georgia.

damikesc said...

Harvard is a private institute. They have the right to do whatever they want.

The Citadel believed that.

They was wrong.

If you take any federal money, and Harvard takes a lot, you're not "private".

jr565 said...

Wait, how are they able to have single gender organizations in the first place? I thought that was a no no.

jr565 said...

Dust Bunny wrote:
Are they going to force the Sororities to accept male members and let them live in the Sorority house?

I thought not

men can probably get into a womans sorority now simply by throwing a wig on and saying they are a woman.
It would be Just like the old Tom Hanks show Bosom Buddies. Would any proof be required that they were not a transgender? They could probably be in the sorority and not even lose their penis.
I'm saying this because I'm giving those who want to get into a sorority and bone the ladies some ideas as to how easy it is.
Just dress up like Tootsie.

Fred Drinkwater said...

rhhardin, re: sailing club
Hmm. Way back when, my now-wife was a student at Johns Hopkins and wished to learn to sail, the harbor and whatnot being right there.
There was no JHU sailing club for her to be excluded from, so she formed one and became its first president.
I'm sure I'm missing your original point, but it did jog this memory.

Speaking of jogging: Buwaya, "Joggeling" is my new favorite word.

The Godfather said...

I graduated from Harvard over 50 years ago, so my knowledge about the Final Clubs may be outdated. In my day, these clubs were important to those who belonged to them, and those who wanted to do so. The other 90% of students ignored them. It appears that the Harvard Administration is following a course that will make these clubs more important to more students, and not in a uniformly negative way.

The spokesman for "The Pork" (which was the nickname for the Porcellian, at least the nickname used by non-members) says that members are “elected without regard to socioeconomic background, religion, national origin, race or sexual orientation” and that the Porcellian’s membership “reflects the diversity of the male population of Harvard College.” If that is so, it represents a dramatic democratization of the club since my day.

By the way, the reason that they are called "final" clubs is not because membership represents the final and highest social aspirations of its members, but because the clubs were signatories of the Final Club Agreement, which was "final" in the sense that it replaced earlier or preliminary versions of the agreement.

Michael K said...

" Even STEM in college has moved this way - emphasizing group work over individual test scores and individual excellence."

I noticed this at Dartmouth in a Masters' program in 1994. Medical schools have really gone fuzzy wuzzy but 60% of the students are female so it makes sense. I always g=got along very well with my female students and they seemed to like my dinosaur ways.

One thing I noticed and have pointed out to students, female faculty are much tougher on female students.

For example, they have a practical exam in physical examination in year 2. One female instructor failed a student because she brushed her hair back with a hand during an exam. I would never have noticed.

Drago said...

Howard: "Harvard is a private institute. They have the right to do whatever they want."

LOL

I'm afraid you can't fix this level of ignorance.

Sammy Finkelman said...

The claim or idea seems to be that females are not respected when they are brought into the club, but if some females were members they would be
respected. This proposition is not argued, it is just put out there.