February 7, 2016

Gloria Steinen, disrespecting young women: "And, when you’re young, you’re thinking, where are the boys? The boys are with Bernie...”

Quite the misstep, but she's for Hillary, and when you put politics first, even if you're the biggest feminist in the world, you come out with anti-feminism.

Watch the full interview. Bill Maher lures into other embarrassments, like when she asserts that feminism has no boundaries then characterizes the abuses in Muslim countries as something that needs to be dealt with within those countries, by Muslim women:



ADDED: At 6:36, Maher asks, "Is feminism something that goes beyond our borders?," and Steinem says "Oh, yes, absolutely, it is totally beyond borders." Maher follows up: "Then why aren't [sic] the way women are treated in the Muslim world considered more of a feminist cause?" She says, "It is! Are you kidding me? Of course, it is!" She mentions the women in those countries who see it as a feminist cause, then tries to pivot away from Islam with "All monotheism is a problem." And — wisely — "Islam being attached to the government is the problem." Maher bears down: "40 countries have Sharia law and under Sharia law...." He lists some very burdensome limitations on women. Her response is: "A lot of feminists in the Islamic world are taking Muhammad's words and pointing out that, you know, his first wife was a real estate agent and smarter than him and richer than him." (Maher says: "A real estate agent?! For what? Century 7?) She says that in his day Muhammad was "a reformer on a lot of issues for women." Now, it's "another story." And then: "Only you could get me to defend any monotheism. I can't believe I'm saying this." He says he's not asking her to defend Sharia law, only saying it should be a big cause for the people who fought for civil rights in the 60s and against apartheid in the 80s. She says: "It is, including for the women in those countries."

AND:

79 comments:

Big Mike said...

I think Gloria should go back to bicycling with her fish.

Ryan said...

Bernie supporters need to use this against Hilary Clinton, like Trump haters used the Mexican-hating Trump supporter against Trump. Same idea here, except much worse in this case because a famous "feminist" is out doing the shows trying to drum up other feminists to support Hilary (the Woman Candidate) and actually fucks it all up.

"She's not my feminist," should be the next thing after Hilary not being anyone's abuela either.

Bob Ellison said...

I don't quite get it. Does she mean the girls want to be with the boys, or that the boys want to be with Bernie?

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TWW said...

We have it straight from Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright: Young Men Should NOT vote for Hillary Clinton... And, when your objective is to influence younger voters, bring out the septuagenarians to scold them. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Ryan said...

Bob she means the girls only support Bernie because that's where the boys are. Girls are so superficial they only care about boys.

BTW, It's also an insult against boys, because it implies that the boys are shallow enough to support Bernie just because he's the man, and not Hilary just because she's a woman.

mikee said...

A feminist being interviewed turns out to be incoherently inconsistent?
Quelle surprise!

In other news, Hillary is a corrupt liar and Bernie's political beliefs are ridiculous.

None of these people should be allowed outside their homes unsupervised by adults.

Big Mike said...

At any rate, as I've written on other Althouse thread, if Hillary Clinton is the best that liberal Democrat women can come up with, then They. Have. NOTHING.

Amexpat said...

It more likely that the boys are with Bernie because that's where the girls are (except Lena Dunham). Jennifer Lawrence recently joked about masturbating while watching Larry David's impression of Bernie Sanders.

BDNYC said...

Honestly I think young men are far likelier to feign interest in feminism or some liberal cause than the other way around. I remember in college thinking most of the guys who marched on campus to "take back the night" were just trying to get in some girl's pants.

Sandra said...

Steinem and Albright's comments were ridiculous, and also consistent with Hillary's main campaign pitch. At the last debate, in response to an observation that she was the establishment candidate (thank you Captain Obvious), Hillary said she was a "woman running to be the first woman President" and looked like she truly believed that answers everything. Straight up identity politics with nothing else. But take her at her word: she is only interested in being a woman President, not in being President. If she believes that, every woman voting for Sanders (or anyone else) is a traitor to be dealt with (which seems consistent with Hillary's general paranoia).

Look at Hillary's poll numbers for men/women. She wins women but not by much and men correctly sense that they may be on her infamous enemies list (alongside Republicans). Interesting how this staggering gender gap gets no coverage.

BDNYC said...

Steinem also said women become more radical as they get older because they lose power. That suggests two things: 1. Young women should be more inclined to support Hillary, the more moderate candidate. 2. Young women have pussy power to bring young men to their way of thinking.

So you would expect young people in general to support Hillary over Bernie, right?

Not so.

Bob Ellison said...

I identify as a lesbian female alpaca. That makes me Latina, by the way.

So which corner of the room do I choose? Bernie, Hillary, Cruz, or Rubio? My daddy was a trillionaire, too, so maybe I should go Trump.

fivewheels said...

Bill Maher is an idiot on a variety of topics, but he sometimes can see a point that orthodox libs simply refuse to. And Century 7 is pretty funny, gotta admit.

Fernandinande said...

An inconsistent feminista? Shocking!

Michael K said...

A feminist being interviewed turns out to be incoherently inconsistent?
Quelle surprise!


I am shocked, I tell you ! Shocked !

Laslo Spatula said...

While I have done extensive work documenting Daddy Issues America they mainly have been focused on the heart-rending plight of young girls in our society of broken family structures.

This, however, I believe falls under Daddy Issues for the boys.

Why would young men flee Hillary for Bernie? Are they actually aware of hr corruption? Is Sanders that scintillating?

Or is it that -- in a primal sense -- Hillary represents all-too-well the Overbearing Female Mother Figure that they encounter everywhere in their lives -- but especially in the colleges. Hillary is the Figure that has been smothering them with How They Should Think, and -- at some coalescing level -- they understand that How They Should Think doesn't seem to coincide with their own best interests.

Enter Bernie. Bernie is the Father Figure they have always wanted: he will fight against Mother Hillary, and if he wins he will bestow countless Gifts upon them, his New Sons.

Daddy Issues: these boys are angry that their own Father -- if he is in their Life at all -- did not pay for all of college, and that their own Father did not like their choice of Liberal Studies. Real Father wanted them to study for a future of droning work, or acquiesced to How They Should Think, whereas Bernie represents Freedom from the Drudgery of Business, and possibly the forgiveness of college debts. That last part would be really cool.

Feminism has bitten itself on the tail: now that there is a woman Presidential Candidate the male children raised under her and her ilk's tutelage these past decades want nothing more than a man who will take care of them, baby them, that will be nonjudgmental and generous beyond measure.

Thank you, Sixties.

I am Laslo.

richlb said...

Maher gets the hypocrisy right. He's a blowhard, but an equal equality blowhard.

TWW said...

Madeline Albright failed in another respect: She failed to make Hillary look good in a pantsuit. p.s. My feeling about women's pantsuits is like Alhouse's feeling about men's shorts. Women's pantsuits are like men's leisure suits that never went out of style.

YoungHegelian said...

Wait, I've got it!

Tell the Sanders campaign to drop Simon & Garfunkel's "Look for America" as the theme for the campaign. I've got the song they need right here!

BDNYC said...

"Madeline Albright failed in another respect: She failed to make Hillary look good in a pantsuit. p.s. My feeling about women's pantsuits is like Alhouse's feeling about men's shorts. Women's pantsuits are like men's leisure suits that never went out of style."

I wonder if Althouse thinks it's wrong for a man to criticize what Hillary wears. He should be focusing on her policies and whether she is right for the job, not the way she looks! Feminism!

tim in vermont said...

Steinem has to know the TV lights are cruel, and to submit to the studio makeup artist. No, she'd rather look like a prune.

Maybe she is relieved to not be so hot anymore that that's all people can see.

tim in vermont said...

She dedicated the book to the man who killed her child for her. I support the right to abortion, but I don't have to like it. That made me sick, I stopped watching right there.

Gusty Winds said...

She exposed her hypocritical self 20 years ago during the Clinton scandals acting as Bill's personal feminist icon apologist.

Obviously, Gloria Steinem doesn't represent the interests of all women. Mahar could have toyed with her more, but pulled back.

She was too easy. Like the girls at the Bernie rallies.

Birkel said...

Why did anybody listen to Gloria Steinem in the first place?

David said...

It's what happens when you spend your life countering disagreements and challenges with demagoguery and intimidation. The brain withers so that you don't understand what you are actually saying.

dreams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Saint Croix said...

Bill Maher can be so smug and obnoxious. I imagine a lot of atheists find him embarrassing! And yet he always strives to be honest, and he follows his thoughts wherever it takes him. Here is an amazing interview he does with Charlie Rose.

dreams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
pm317 said...

Agree, this is a major misstep. I put in this comment in the Albright thread before seeing this post:

In fact, I take objection to what Gloria Steinem said more and it was more than insulting, (she said young women were supporting Bernie the fraud to please their male counterparts, (paraphrasing)). Now that is a line that is demeaning, (gruesome!) -- we had a woman English teacher in college who used to say girls take up science so that they are better marriageable material.

AprilApple said...

Steinem makes me sick. I fully expect her to support Hillary. 2 horrid hypocritical women.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Friends do not criticize friends.
The Left believes Capitalism is bad, the West is bad, America is vicious and corrupt and needs to be defeated;so does radical Islam.

The left are defined by what they are against, or more accurately who they hate. So they are drawn to sympathy toward Islam because both hate the West and America in particular. Radical Islam and the Left are both against the supposed evils of the West.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

It seems like a contradiction, but really it's simple: Leftists can't agree that America (or American culture) is superior in any way to other actions or cultures. So even though America plainly is "better" in feminist terms, that comparison cannot be made. To avoid it she changes topics mid thought, changes the scope of the idea under consideration, uses a no true Scotsman ploy to imply that Islam itself really isn't a problem, etc.
It ends up being ridiculous, of course, but that is natural when you MUST avoid the logical conclusions of your premises.

JAORE said...

I did not watch much of the tape. GS and BM are two very unappealing people to me.

So, I gather from the comments, Bill did not grill her on Hillary's actions on Bimbo eruptions. Do you suppose that was agreed to before the program?

jaydub said...

Feminism has to be one of the strangest political movements of all time, and Steinem's waffling is certainly consistent with feminism's usual inconsistencies. Maher is just allowing Steinem to one again prove that feminism doesn't really have any core principles.

Owen said...

BDNYC @ 10:23: "Honestly I think young men are far likelier to feign interest in feminism or some liberal cause than the other way around. I remember in college thinking most of the guys who marched on campus to "take back the night" were just trying to get in some girl's pants."

This. But it is also possible that the girls are going where the boys are, and so the boys see that and go where the girls are, in a self-fueling cascade. Nonlinear system.

Either way, Hillary has problems. I recently dined with four ladies (50-60's, highly accomplished) and all they wanted to do was rip Hillary. So where is the Sisterhood?

Terry said...

Quick! Name a useful thing that Steinem has done!

Steve M. Galbraith said...

"A lot of feminists in the Islamic world are taking Muhammad's words and pointing out that, you know, his first wife was a real estate agent and smarter than him and richer than him.

"A lot of feminists are taking Muhammad's word"? And then from that "his first wife was a real estate agent". Remember: this was in response to the question about feminism and Sharia law and the oppression of women in Islamic countries today.

If you wanted to be more incoherent it would be impossible to do. Well, I guess you could say this all backwards and make it less incoherent; but it would be close.



n.n said...

The alliance of female chauvinists, anti-native advocates, and social justice bigots has meant new and expanded wars, violent regime changes, civil rights violations, human rights violations, a perpetual stream of illegal aliens, a refugee crisis, and the progression from selective-child policy to clinical cannibalism.

walter said...

Blogger BDNYC said...
Honestly I think young men are far likelier to feign interest in feminism or some liberal cause than the other way around. I remember in college thinking most of the guys who marched on campus to "take back the night" were just trying to get in some girl's pants.
--
Ah yes..featuring the motto "Every man is a potential rapist".
Had a roommate who was active in MSR: Men Stopping Rape.
Do the have chapters is Sharia countries? Do they make allowances for raping Christian boys and girls? Men Stopping Certain Rapes.

William said...

Gloria Steinem is not a doctrinaire feminist. She was an enthusiastic volunteer on Norman Mailer's campaign in 1969. A lot of feminists would think that trying to stab your wife to death should disqualify a politician from feminist support, but Gloria sees the larger picture. How much greater NYC would be today if we had elected Mailer mayor back then? NYC would be encircled by a monorail, there would be no public transportation on Sundays, and the police department would be under the control of the local communities. Steinem had the vision and prescience to see how these proposals would liberate women.........The real enemy is bourgeoise western values. There are some prudes who get all hysterical about wife stabbing, but nothing more clearly demonstrates a repudiation of such values than stabbing your wife. Gloria was able to see the big picture when it came to Norman. She even threw in what she described as a "mercy fuck" for him. This is not a woman to be dismayed by Sharia law. She sees the big picture.

mccullough said...

American feminists are afraid of criticizing Islam. Everyone notices. progressives are cowards.

walter said...

Such issues as human trafficking and genital mutilation, which she first wrote about in 1979, once evoked little interest in the mainstream. Yet post-9/11, even Americans have come around to her belief that it is folly to ignore repression abroad. Much of Mohamed Atta’s rage came from being “ridiculed by this authoritarian lawyer father who told him that even his older sisters were more masculine than he,” she says. “He became addicted to proving his masculinity. How clear is that?”
The Future of the Fight for Women's Rights

robother said...

Mohammed's first wife was a real estate agent? Well that might explain how the 6% commission has become cast in stone for residential transactions: it's Sharia! Any agent who negotiates a lower commission will be beheaded.

Mary Beth said...

Where we have Christian theocracies, it's a problem.

Where?

Char Char Binks said...

She's simply, and quite consistently, hewing to the PC hierarchy of oppressed peoples.

Sal said...

When it comes to choosing between rapey Muslims and women, or a rapey Bill Clinton and women, feminists don't choose women.

jacksonjay said...

Muhammad as reformer, hmmmm. Well, Hillary did call Assad a reformer, before she said he hadda to go!

Bob Ellison said...

Mary Beth said...

Where we have Christian theocracies, it's a problem.

Where?


Forget it. She's rolling.

Bruce Hayden said...

"A lot of feminists are taking Muhammad's word"? And then from that "his first wife was a real estate agent". Remember: this was in response to the question about feminism and Sharia law and the oppression of women in Islamic countries today.

Well, not just women are oppressed. A couple of days ago I saw an article about some Muzzie in Europe (I think Germany) raping a young boy at a pool, due to his sexual emergency. Apparently, his excuse is that he hadn't had sex in awhile. I am guessing that he picked the young boy because there weren't any goats, sheep, or unprotected females available. Funny thing is, that apparently male pedophilia is not considered homosexuality (so they don't get stoned to death) where he came from, but rather, merely a sexual release.

Quaestor said...

Maher could driven the stake in harder and deeper by starting the interview by praising Steinem's support for racial equality, first in this country and then in her support of international sanctions against the apartheid regime in South Africa. Steinem would have smiled and nodded, the usual suspects in the studio audience would have loudly cheered and applauded, etc. Only after securing her unqualified support for the idea that racism is an international problem that need to be corrected by international measures applied with whatever vigor is necessary -- something Steinem is quite bright enough to realize is a trap waiting to ensnare her -- only then should Maher have brought up the curious case of feminists and Sharia.

JAORE said...

The left is composed of a large number of splinter groups. These groups are often NOT natural allies. Jews and Pro Palestinians; gays and Muslim; blue collar/union workers and damn near all of the above. But the greater good makes it anathema to point out these conflicts and risk splintering the whole. Is it any wonder there are logical inconsistencies in their messages?

Sebastian said...

"when you put politics first, even if you're the biggest feminist in the world, you come out with anti-feminism." Umm, no. Really existing feminism, the kind that doesn't just exist in the imagination of law profs, always puts politics first, and always has.

@CCB: "She's simply, and quite consistently, hewing to the PC hierarchy of oppressed peoples." But not quite consistently, hence the squirming. Old-time feminists know the drill, the Muslim Other and the Other of color take priority over mere women, but some are not totally entirely comfortable with it. Not enough to actually, you know, denounce Islam (it just has the faults of any monotheism, says Steinem, or it just shows the faults of any "closed culture," as AA has tried to tell us). Not enough to actually, you know, show real consistent solidarity with the women of Rotherham, the women of Cologne, the women of Stockholm, Yazidi women, and, oh, 90+% of the women of Egypt, or some particular black African formerly Muslim mutilated women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Tarrou said...

Mohammed's first wife was richer than he was? That's the feminist defense of islam?

His third wife was six years old.



I keep waiting for a leftist to distinguish themselves from mindless oikophobia, but I guess today's not the day.

Fred Drinkwater said...

Sorry, William, but it's pet peeve time.
The adjective is "bourgeois", (no e) and the class of folks is "the bourgeoisie".
Your regularly scheduled commenting continues now. If this had been a real emergency, a FEMA official would have gone on TV in a week to tell you how good things are.

tim in vermont said...

Where we have Christian theocracies, it's a problem

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" - Jesus


The really big starts go by one name.

boycat said...

mccullough @12:13pm said...
"American feminists are afraid of criticizing Islam. Everyone notices. progressives are cowards."

I don't think that's it. Feminists are first leftists. All of leftism is enthralled by radical Islam's brutality. They love it. Getting in touch with their inner Stalin, they crave the power to jam whatever they want down our throats like that.

Bill said...

Evidently, Khadijah was blonde and drove a Mercedes.

Unknown said...

"disrespecting"

Isn't disrespect a noun? No disrespect intended.

dustbunny said...

Steinem is angry that she isn't still the sexy face of feminism, the one that said its ok for attractive women to be feminists. She made it her life's work and now no one cares. To be reduced to an old Connie Francis song is not the way she wanted to go out.

Lem said...

What if Trump had said the same thing?

Quaestor said...

Funny thing is, that apparently male pedophilia is not considered homosexuality (so they don't get stoned to death) where he came from, but rather, merely a sexual release.

This is particularly true in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Young boys from poor families are routinely sold as sex slaves to wealthy tribal leaders. They don't call the transaction a purchase nor the status of the boy slavery, but that's what it amounts to. The father would say he handed his son to another more powerful man's protection and having received a charitable gift of money from the same man, which is nothing but euphemistic bullshit. Some of these wealthy men own dozens of boys who are prostituted to other men as "dancers". No fashionable party is complete without dancing boys.

One would think that monstrous premium Muslims put on virginity would protect girls from sexual slavery and prostitution, but the reverse is true. Of all the world's major religions, and I include classical paganism, only in Islam do men have an unassailable warrant to hold young girls in sexual slavery or to use them as prostitutes.

Steinem's claim about Mohammad's first wife being a "real estate agent" is both historically ludicrous and irrelevant to the matter of Sharia. To begin with Khadijah was a wealthy widow before Mohammad married her. The wealth came from the estates of her first two husbands which she inherited under the Syrian law and tradition, which wasn't Arab or Islamic at the time -- this was BEFORE Islam was invented. At the time Syria was an eastern province of the Byzantine Empire, the laws and traditions in force there were Orthodox Christian and had been for more than three hundred years. (The Quran and the Hadith talks about the Byzantines and their influence many times, though Mohammad always called them Romans.) Khadijah supported herself and her family partly through the sale of land she inherited under Byzantine law -- the Romans invented our modern Western notion of wills and estates, the idea that a person can dispose of his property as he chooses -- so she wasn't an agent in any reasonable sense. If Islam had been in force its unlikely she would have been in such a position because under Sharia a woman can't inherit unless she has no male relative closer than an uncle.

Steinem made no mention of Mohammad's third wife, which was the second marriage he made under the auspices of Islam and the only one fully relevant to the discussion of feminism and Sharia. Mohammad married Aisha when she was but six years old and took she sexually at age nine! He remained married to her until his death, but he could have divorced her under Sharia by simply saying to her in the presence of at least one witness I divorce thee. I divorce thee. I divorce thee. Also under Sharia a man who desires another man's wife may bargain with him to obtain her. These precepts of marriage make prostitution and sexual slavery legal under Sharia. Today it is routine to rent a temporary "wife", sometimes as young as nine, from her "husband" or "guardian", usually by hour, at the conclusion of which the poor captive is "divorced" and returned to the custody of the so-called guardian -- and this is entirely righteous under Sharia because Mohammad raped a nine-year old girl and divorced four other girls by the quick and easy formula decreed by Allah.

sydney said...

Off topic- but she looks pretty darned good for 81.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Well, it's certainly easy for a dried-up old childless spinster like Steinem to denigrate the idea of mingling and mixed-group socialization. But like everything she champions, it's anti-biology and anti-reality. Apparently kids have a different agenda.

At this point she has about as much credibility to me as a creationist.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
buwaya said...

"Today it is routine to rent a temporary "wife", sometimes as young as nine, from her "husband" or "guardian", usually by hour, at the conclusion of which the poor captive is "divorced" and returned to the custody of the so-called guardian -- "

I don't recall this being a thing when I was in the sandpit.

buwaya said...

Lets say that arrangements were other than as specified.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I'm really liking what Quaestor's saying today. His exposition on Khadijah's fortunes and the legitimization of child rape and female oppression in Islam is very well-explained and astute. Wafa Sultan's book goes into a lot of cultural detail on how this plays out, also.

Brando said...

The defender of our former rapist in chief? Who cares what that tool thinks? She is something but we dare not call it feminist. Unless feminist now mean totally okay with rapists if they support abortion.

Fernandinande said...

Mary Beth said...
"Where we have Christian theocracies, it's a problem.
Where?


Vatican City.

Thirty women suffer horrible oppression "behind the walls."

The Godfather said...

What is this hang-up that Steinem has with "monotheism", the belief in one god? She doesn't reject "theism", the belief in a god or gods of whatever number, so she's not an atheist. I assume that she must be a polytheist, who worships multiple gods. Who are they? A good interviewer would have asked.

The Godfather said...

I wonder if Steinem ever asks herself, in the dark watches of the night, what her aborted child might have experienced and achieved if she had allowed him or her to be born.

Fernandinande said...

The Godfather said...
What is this hang-up that Steinem has with "monotheism", the belief in one god? She doesn't reject "theism", the belief in a god or gods of whatever number, so she's not an atheist.


Conjecture vs 30 seconds of googlosity:
++
The Humanist: Going back to our discussion of self-identifiers, there’s a lot of talk within the secular movement about reclaiming the word “atheist.”

Steinem: If it were up to me, I would not define myself by the absence of something; “theist” is a believer, so with “atheist” you’re defining yourself by the absence of something. I think human beings work on yes, not on no.
...
The Humanist: So we need a more positive and inclusive term.

Steinem: Yes, because it’s not about not believing. It’s about rejecting a god who looks like the ruling class.
++

Hilarious.

ken in tx said...

"Why did anybody listen to Gloria Steinem in the first place?"

Because she used to be pretty hot, especially with those big Hollywood glasses.

BTW, the temporary wife thing only holds in Shia areas. It's one of the reasons the Sunni like to kill them.

Chris N said...

Since performative interpretation is so vital to the revolution:

Scene 1:

-What's all the hullabaloo?

-Mom's in her room again

-Whatcha doin' in school?

-Nothin'. All kindsa stuff. Right now there's...(loud noise from offstage)

-Grab your father some gin.

Scene 2

Old timey Pontiac. Suitcase. Man in a porkpie hat.

-See ya around, kid.

Laura said...

What an ageist! Young women who toe her line are women, but those who don't are horny girls?

Craig said...

She was singing about Bobby Darin. They were an item then.

JamesB.BKK said...

Quaestor: On a hand phone, it's "I D4C U, I D4C U, I D4C U."