January 3, 2016

"God’s hand of retaliation will grip the neck of Saudi politicians."

Said Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
Despite the rhetoric, however, the Iranians seemed to be taking steps to prevent the dispute from escalating further. Forty Iranians were arrested on Saturday night for the violence — a sign that the authorities were trying to keep public outrage from getting out of control.
Despite the rhetoric.... But the rhetoric could be read to mean: Leave retaliation to God. Don't do it yourself.  I am reminded of the Christian scripture:
Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
And from the Old Testament:
Vengeance is mine, and recompense,
    for the time when their foot shall slip;
for the day of their calamity is at hand,
    and their doom comes swiftly.
I don't know of a comparable passage in the Quran. I am only observing that "God’s hand of retaliation will grip the neck of Saudi politicians" is consistent with an interpretation that Iran will not take revenge.

48 comments:

David Begley said...

AA

The Iranians LIE. Watch what they do; not what they say.

You are beginning to think like Kerry but without the five hones, yacht and mega rich spouse.

Ann Althouse said...

"The Iranians LIE. Watch what they do; not what they say."

I assume everyone lies. And watching what is done and not what is said will leave you watching while things are being done. You need to try to predict what will be done in the future. Demonizing the Iranians is just your go-to position, and it's just pat and ineffective, but you seem to find it comfortable for whatever reason. Here is a big conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran, where Saudi Arabia looks worse than Iran.

Anyway if we watch what they do, as you advise, the main thing they've done is arrest 40 Iranians for the violence that had erupted. They seem to be trying to control the anger among their own people.

So, really, what IS your point -- other than to throw stray insults at me?

Titus said...

I deleted Grindr. I am not much of a social media type person and grindr was becoming addictive and I have an addictive personality. I was only on the app for a couple months. I read that some guys are on for years. I was late to the app and enjoyed my tricks but I want something more spontaneous and don't want to chat with guys....I have friends for chatting.

thanks and tits.

LarsPorsena said...

"Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God.."

Later Christians would call Attila and the Huns the wrath of God.

I think Hellfire missiles are the wrath of God.

Sow the wind; reap the whirlwind.

ironrailsironweights said...

Remember:
The current government of Saudi Arabia is the second-worst government in the world.
The very worst government in the world is whatever replaces it.

Peter

Roy Lofquist said...

This is all part of the preliminaries, the feeling out stage, of the coming Sunni/Shia blowout carnival.

David Begley said...

AA

Didn't mean to insult you. Just the regular banter on this blog.

Iran wants to be the power in the ME and Obama has given them that status with the nuke "deal." The nuke deal never should have been done as it shifts Iran above the Gulf States and we are no longer going to protect them like GHWB did. Iran is too strong and we are no longer the mega counterweight.

I submit the Iranian government was either behind the invasion or allowed it. The Iranian police couldn't stop it? Please.The Chicago cops could have.

This incident is just more of the eternal Sunni v. Shia war and that only means violence as that's how the Religion of Peace rolls.

If the Obama Administration was smart it would "snapback" the sanctions, keep the $100b and put a $20 bbl tariff on OPEC so we could become energy independent from our Muslim "friends."

Ben Rhodes has said that the Iranian deal is Obama's second term legacy item. To anyone thinking clearly, it is a failure. Cut your losses and reverse course. Don't do stupid stuff.

We all love Althouse + Meade.

Paul said...

But beware...

Vengeance is mine says the Lord.

But we are here to do the Lord's work, right?

Besides, two wrongs don't make a right, they do though make us even.

SGT Ted said...

Odds are the Iranian government organized and staged the entire thing. Sure they arrested people. How many of them will actually face trial?

Iranian Islamo-fascists, who kill homosexuals, enforce Sharia and dress women in sacks, prating about "freedom, democracy and human rights", is absurd. Iran doesn't give two shits about human rights. They want Shiite Islamic supremacy and they hate the Sunnis as oppostates.

Mid-Life Lawyer said...

Your point about the scriptures being similar - the rhetoric - is correct. But taken out of the context of the fact that the Muslims are consistently doing the business of God's vengeance whereas the Christians are not, makes your comparison seem very much like the President's finger wagging over high horses and the Crusades.

Amanda said...

I think the Iranians believe that they will be doing God's handy work if they retaliate.

Lyle Smith said...

God's hand will be the Iranian mullahs' hands supporting the Islamic State, Al Qaeda, or other Islamists to overthrow the Saud family. The Sauds are very afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood and the Islamic State, or the Sunni Arab Spring.

chickelit said...

I don't know of a comparable passage in the Quran. I am only observing that "God’s hand of retaliation will grip the neck of Saudi politicians" is consistent with an interpretation that Iran will not take revenge.

It's probably the same Quaran passage that restrained the Charlie Hebdo avengers. Either that or it's prima facie evidence that the Iranians are the true Muslims.

Sebastian said...

"Despite the rhetoric.... But the rhetoric could be read to mean: Leave retaliation to God. Don't do it yourself." It could be. Then again, it might not. Or it might not be, you know, the whole truth and nothing but. It could mean, for example, that the regime will encourage some Iranians or, God forbid, even some of their own operatives, to assist the "hand of God" just a bit. Yes, Begley's Kerry insult was harsh, but your lawyerly/litcritty attempts at "reading" do not in fact assume people/leaders/Muslims/Iranians in particular lie. If you had, you would embed your reading in the history of previous Iranian statements and actions to do a proper fisking, rather than speciously looking for Biblical analogues. We know you can do it. So well, if you'll excuse the suck-up, that you leave your readers a tad disappointed when you come across as taking more or less malicious manipulations, by Progs or Muslims, at face value.

traditionalguy said...

Gripping The Neck is a great move. Once you have someone by the neck, you can control their head and also control what the brain/mind sees until the eyes are put out and life snuffed out into eternal dark.

But putting this Sharia habit together with practicing the stupid dominance "Call to Prayer" screamed out of high towers all over town five times a day is too hard a connection for the Intellectual Elites being funded by petro dollars, such as B. Hussein Obama.

Pookie Number 2 said...



I can't speak for David Begley, or anyone else, but one point is that your own petty and ineffective commentary on Iranian behavior ignores the fact that Iran is gleefully proactive when it comes to the terrorist acts it commits, rather than passively leaving vengeance to Allah.

Adamsunderground said...

No, no. You misheard those lyrics all along. it's "Death to emir--ick, ah!"

Ann Althouse said...

"Besides, two wrongs don't make a right, they do though make us even."

Genesis 4 has God saying that whoever kills Cain in revenge for the murder of Abel will be punished 7 times as much as Cain. God's math class is a bitch. Thinking you know the subject could be the best way to get the worst grade. "Vengeance is mine, I will repay." He's going to repay on His own terms. You think you know what's your due?

traditionalguy said...

If I remember it, the Sunnis say they are the sane orthodox Mohammedan guys and the Shias say they are the supernatural ones being directly descended from Big Mo himself sort of like Apostolic Succession is to Catholics or James the Lord's brother was in early Jewish Christianity. The Hussain guy was the named relative that the Shia swear by as making their brand of insanity real and more supernatural.

One upmanship is a natural development of all legalistic pride religions. Ties go to the biggest tribe.

Ironclad said...

You have to read the Iranian actions in the context of the struggle between Shia and Sunni for dominance in the Islamic world as well as the Iranian desire to eclipse Saudi as the greater regional power. Saudi has money and possession of Mecca and Medina - Iran has the troops and military discipline and the will to expand its power. The oil areas in Saudi are the most heavily populated by Shia (they are the bulk of the workers in the industry). And Bahrain - the island off the coast of Saudi is 90%+ Shia but ruled by Sunnis. (as well as being the US Naval base in the region) .

Most of the Shia in the area claim their theological allegiance to Najaf (Iraq) not Qum (Iran). The Iranians want to change that by stirring up as much political windage as they can from the actions of the Saudis toward the Shia who live there (which is pretty bad in discrimination and political rights) Saudi officials have tried to resettle many Sunnis into the Eastern Province to counterbalance the native population too. This has to be seen in the context of that struggle.

The problem for the Shia in Saudi and Bahrain is that if they protest, they are seen as Iranian stooges. If they don't protest - they are seen as weak and helpless. (And there is the always implicit threat of losing their jobs if they protest) . I have great sympathy for the Shia in the area and fear what the ham-handed guys in Riyadh will do to maintain control.

But all that said, with the price of oil so low, the Saudis will have to play cautious.

Tarrou said...

This is the old Iranian style of responsibility-avoidance here. Some random people are so enraged that they all go get a government bus or fifty, some sophisticated command and control, and invade another nation's sovereign territory and destroy diplomatic facilities. The government is of course shocked by this, and will get RIGHT ON punishing those involved, someday.

I think it's fantastic, and we should emulate it. Perhaps next time the Iranians piss us off, we could lynch a few dozen of their diplomats, and the government could just try its incompetent hardest to find the perpetrators, to no avail.

chickelit said...

Althouse queries: You think you know what's your due?

I think people just want to garner whether you have a sunni vs. a shiite disposition on the matter.

Melissa said...

Appreciating your post and comments Ann.

@David Begley, re Chicago cops, I will just mention past torture of suspects and shootings of unarmed individuals and respectfully ask if you think those are effective long-term policing strategies for optimizing citizen quality of life, and, if yes, when are they good and why, both here and in Iran.

Please forgive me if I seem to have taken your comment too literally.


William said...

Why is Trump's rhetoric inflammatory and this bit about neck wringing so moderate and restrained?..........Also Americans are far less prejudiced against generic Muslims than Muslms are against each other. But Americans are the ones being labelled bigots.

Michael K said...

"Odds are the Iranian government organized and staged the entire thing. Sure they arrested people. How many of them will actually face trial?"

I agree completely. Anyone who doubts this will vote for Hillary

Skeptical Voter said...

Islam is still at that early evolutionary stage in its doctrine--akin to the Christian schism during the Albigensian Heresy where one military commander said (while taking a city of heretics) "Kill them all, God will sort them out."

The Shias and Sunnis have "issues" to sort out. If they could sort them out while leaving Christians and other Westerners alone, I'd say "go to it."

Michael K said...

" I will just mention past torture of suspects and shootings of unarmed individuals "

Amusing to see the BLM contingent. Chicago cops have been corrupt since 1920, if not before. Are you just figuring this out ?

I grew up there.

There have been a few exceptions and the corrupt cops often protected them. One of the honest ones was a friend of mine.

Another is my brother-in-law.

Eustace Chilke said...

You need to try to predict what will be done in the future.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. There's a centuries old war for context. I assume Iran will prosecute the war, hot if they can, cold if their advantages are not sufficient, and justify the bloodletting using this incident added to their long list. So do the Saudis assume. Who is there who does not assume this? (Leaving aside idiots like the Obamunist and company.)

Where's the mystery here? If I had a crystal ball I wouldn't bother pulling it out for this one. And throwing in the Christian scriptures is about as revealing as the ayatollah's horoscope.

Birkel said...

Lectures on religion from Althouse?

This is an amusing Sunday morning.

Birkel said...

Skeptical Voter:
Since death is required for all dissent within Islam, what would that reformation look like, who would accomplish it and would they hide alongside Salman Rushdie?

David Begley said...

Ironclad:

You seem to know this Sunni-Shia stuff. Please explain to me how I would recognize a Sunni v a Shia just walking down the street. Different thing on the head? Different beards? Tats? Accent? Language?

Or is it like Creighton v Baylor in basketball? Two sects of the same religion and one side wears blue and white to the game and the other side wears yellow and green. And please note, Bluejay fans did not behead the Batlor fans after the Bears inflicted on us maybe our biggest loss ever.

Melissa:

Too literal. Any reasonable competent police force could have stopped those clowns. And it is the duty of the host country to do so. The Omaha cops would have stopped them cold and they have no riot experience nor history of brutality and corruption.

n.n said...

There's always a social justice movement. The "Arab Spring" was a successful miscarriage of violent coups, minority intimidation, rape-rapes, and mass abortions, that culminated in a refugee crisis sanctioned by anti-native policies and actions that were presumable pursued in the name of peace.

Seeing Red said...

Red on red. And we have oil! Pass the popcorn!

If the Sauds had to leave, where would they go, England? We'd be nuts to take them in, talk about putting a target on our back or front. The question is will this be more of a slow money bleed, or red?

David said...

" I am only observing that "God’s hand of retaliation will grip the neck of Saudi politicians" is consistent with an interpretation that Iran will not take revenge."

It's always great to start a new year with optimism. Of course having God seek revenge may be worse than the Iranians doing it. God's rules of engagement do not always exclude collateral damage.

walter said...

There's that "moderation" in action:

Titus said... I have an addictive personality.

walter said...

James Taylor has work to do..

Birkel said...

As I remarked yesterday, the Saudis must have anticipated the Iranian response. So they must already have calculated their response. Now official ties between the countries are severed. And the world is more dangerous.

This is what a vote for Obama meant in 2008. Everybody was warned.

Quaestor said...

Despite the rhetoric.... But the rhetoric could be read to mean: Leave retaliation to God. Don't do it yourself.

Yes, but such a reading would run counter to the entire history of Islam.

Barely sixty years after its founding Islam was permanently sundered into irreconcilable camps which wage literal war on each other to this every day. Christianity took more than 1500 years to achieve a similarly bloody schism. The Sunni/Shi'a rift originally arose from a dispute we descendants of Western Christendom wouldn't even recognize as religious in nature. The theological differences between these sects were largely subsequent to the original conflict, which was a what we would see as a political dispute about the succession of leadership after Muhammad. From the very beginning Islam has been drenched in blood shed in the name of god. What we're seeing is nothing less than normal internecine jihad.

jacksonjay said...

I for one will withhold judgment until Imam Obama returns from his pilgrimage to the tropics. Surely he will mount the Muslim high horse and offer up something along the lines of "this is not Islam." "Islam is peaceful. The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam."

BN said...

"Thinking you know the subject could be the best way to get the worst grade."

Kill 'em all and let the Perfesser sort 'em out.

BN said...

"Where's the mystery here?"

"Yes, but such a reading would run counter to the entire history of Islam."

"And the world is more dangerous."

Y'all are missing the point. Shut up and repeat the shit. You want an "A" in this class or not?

"Thinking you know the subject could be the best way to get the worst grade."

It's nothin' but high horses and humble students all the way down.

BN said...

"James Taylor has work to do."

I predict more fire than rain.

BN said...

"Lectures on religion from Althouse?"

It's lectures all the way down.

Amanda said...

"This is what a vote for Obama meant in 2008. Everybody was warned."

What an incredidibly ignorant comment. The Saudis, the Bush's best buddies. So blame it on Obama? What nonsense.

Birkel said...

A vacuum of leadership leads to danger. Amanda is a science denier.

PianoLessons said...

n.n said: There's always a social justice movement. The "Arab Spring" was a successful miscarriage of violent coups, minority intimidation, rape-rapes, and mass abortions, that culminated in a refugee crisis sanctioned by anti-native policies and actions that were presumable pursued in the name of peace.

My response What has NOT been said is that Obama and Hillary actually believed for a few months that they had created the amazingly beautiful solution - their self named Arab Spring - to solve the literally Biblical problem in the Mideast. Those two cocky morons and their Harvard buddies. Good Heavens.

Then #Benghazi happened and both of them have been exposed to their plotting for a new Arab Spring....check out this White House speech Obama gave on 9/11/12 where he was talking to the Arab Recovery Summit in Qater - that very day - where he had Eric Holder in attendance - the purpose of the Arab Recovery Forum being to divide Libya's assets now that Hillary and Obama killed Qadaffi - it's just crazy folks. Both Hillary and Obama and both their teams thought 9/11/12 was some kind of good thing until.....you know .....the killing of our US Ambassador and three others happened.

Obama on 9/11/12 at noon speaking to Arab Recovery Forum in Qatar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ7HK5ns6mE …

He gave this speech at noon on 9/11/12. Before the terrorist attacks happened.

It's not been a vacuum of leadership. It's been a completely crazy group of academics from London School of Economics and Harvard and other leftist academic havens that truly believed they had created a somehow wonderful Arab Spring to solve everything.

It was romantic. It was Utopian in a way. And it was so completely misguided and wrong on so many levels - honest historians will note this rookie group of academics suddenly in charge of the White House - left unchecked - as one of America's greatest failures of leadership ever.

It's not a vacuum. It was elite academic political hubris.

Gahrie said...

Please explain to me how I would recognize a Sunni v a Shia just walking down the street. Different thing on the head? Different beards? Tats? Accent? Language?

It is somewhat possible. Most Shia Muslims are Aryan, live in Iran and speak Farsi. Most other Muslims around the world speak Arabic and are Sunni.

Nichevo said...

Gahrie,

Iraqi Shiites? Saudi Shiites? Syrians?

Not too helpful.