November 14, 2015

Another debate, this time with only 3 — Democrats, scrambling to adjust their message, post Paris.

1. We shall see if anyone makes a big move.

2. My son John is live-blogging, here (and will probably have much more than I will).

3. Clinton is asked if the Obama administration underestimated ISIS.

4. Sanders still believes climate change is the greatest threat.

5. "Is the world too dangerous a place for a Governor who has no foreign policy experience?" (Dickerson's questions speak for themselves. There is no answer O'Malley can give.)

6. The seething, roiling backdrop is distracting me. I thought I saw the shadow of the land shark creeping up on Hillary.

7. Bernie Sanders says ISIS and al Qaeda want to take the world back "several thousand years," but that would be long before the birth of Mohammad.

8. Hillary made a point of repeatedly saying "jihadi."

9. "The business model of Wall Street is fraud." Bernie Sanders.

10. Debate over. My prediction at item #2 above is very apt.

11. John writes: "Sanders's closing statement is evocative of Larry David's impersonation of him: 'We need a political revolution! . . . Turn off the TV! . . . Please become a part of the revolution!'" When I heard him say "Turn off the TV," I thought it was going to continue: "So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!'"

67 comments:

clint said...

If either of the other "candidates" is really running for the top spot on the ticket, tonight is the night to hit Hillary.

She was Secretary of State when we gave ISIL the space to grow. It was her Libya policy that did it.

If Sanders and O'Malley aren't willing to say that, then they're running Potemkin campaigns.

Original Mike said...

"This can not be an American fight, although American leadership is essential"

WTF?

traditionalguy said...

Sanders needs to remind the audience about the way Mars Attacks ended by the serenading of the aliens with Slim Whitman songs and then do his five minute impression.

That is the only way he will out do Hillary's dominatrix persona.

MathMom said...

Clinton blamed George W. Bush. Idiot.

steve uhr said...

Sanders website -- "The United States cannot and should not lead the effort to defeat ISIS on its own. There are enough capable military powers in the region, and the coalition should be led by Middle Eastern allies."

Not what he said tonight.

Browndog said...

This is so damn complicated none of you worthless fucks can even begin to understand how complex everything is...you stupid idiot fuckers!

Elliott A said...

The good Senator from up north must not be living on the same planet as we. Does he really believe that either ISIL is not that big a threat, or it will affect them at all if they dominate the world? Not only should he not be president, he shouldn't be in any elected office where he has even the remotest effect on public safety. At least Hillary is rational whether you like her, or her policies, or not.

Elliott A said...

Global warming

Meade said...

These three seem to be the jv team.

Original Mike said...

Hillary thinks our government can screen terrorists from amongst 65,000 Syrian refugees. I believe that. Totally believable.

Browndog said...

Muslim invasion screening is the ...er, THE No.1 thing....
10,000...not enough, we need 65,000-

...according to the email I got from Sydney...that is in the system, that I want everyone to read..legally, you know.

Coupe said...

5000 nuclear weapons. Bernie is right. We don't, and will never have the will to use them. They are a welfare program.

Each nuke costs over 400 million to maintain and store each year. Not to mention the launchers (ships, subs, holes in the ground).

The "computers" in the rocket silo's in North Dakota still use 8" floppy disks.

Right now we need WMD like we need ethanol.

Browndog said...

I'm a sucker for "reasonably manageable"

I'm thinking she's the one!

Original Mike said...

"Each nuke costs over 400 million to maintain and store each year"

Times 5,000 warheads that's 2 trillion dollars. I don't think so.

Browndog said...

Coupe said...

A whole lot of bull---as far as the numbers, and floppy disks.

Not sure why.

FullMoon said...

Bernie Sanders is spot on imitating Larry David

Peter Casas said...

Math is hard, dignity is harder...

Coupe said...

Original Mike said...Times 5,000 warheads that's 2 trillion dollars. I don't think so.

Sorry, I forgot the percent of the budget Bernie quoted. I think the budget is .7 trillion, so I was probably quoting purchase price, not maintenance. Probably...

averagejoe said...

And then there was one- I mean, three! *wink*

Browndog said...

Point of fact:

Where does the figure of 11 Million illegals come from?

A 1990 census, that estimated the illegal population to be 11-20 million.

After that census, the democrats, under Bill Clinton barred the Census from conducting that survey.

25 years later, every politician still uses the 11 million figure.

It's almost like they are deliberately being dishonest. Almost.

sane_voter said...

I might consider taking in 65,000 Syrians if they are demonstrably not Muslims. Otherwise no way.

averagejoe said...

MathMom said...
Clinton blamed George W. Bush. Idiot.

11/14/15, 8:19 PM

Ding! Our survey said that would be the number one answer from democrats to any question about the Paris attacks...Other answers would be *Global Warming/Climate Change*...*Gun violence/Control*...*republicans/racism*...*Need more money*...*Need more Syrian refugees*...

Alex said...

Bernie is a fucking joke. Hillary is a twisted fuck and O'Malley is just generic liberal.

Alex said...

Original Mike... you are expecting "The Bern" to be an expert on anything outside of socialist agitation?

Paul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Paul said...

I say the 'refugees' can be housed at Getimo until cleared.


And if they don't like that they can go back home.

Original Mike said...

These people are so unserious.

EMD said...

""Is the world too dangerous a place for a Governor who has no foreign policy experience?" (Dickerson's questions speak for themselves. There is no answer O'Malley can give.)"

If O'Malley could fucking think on his feet his reply could be "Well, frankly, the foreign policy experience of the other 2 candidates on this stage really hasn't amounted to much."

sane_voter said...

O'Malley is terrible at speaking. He is worse than every Republican candidate. I like Bernie's speaking manner, but his content is crap.

Hillary's comment on supporting Obamacare will be a nice soundbite in a GOP general election ad next year.

I love that they keep bringing up gun control at these Dem debates. keep talking about it so no one is deluded when the Dem candidate goes hunting next year.

Achilles said...

Bernie is an honest human being. He is also a retard.

People running for president are usually far more intelligent than people commenting on them give them credit for. Bush for example. Anyone who called him stupid was projecting what they see in the mirror. Every one of those candidates is at least 2 standard deviations above the mean on intelligence.

Not Bernie. He is an average intelligence. He would be a common bureaucrat if he wasn't a politician.

sane_voter said...

CBS is doing a commendable job with the debate moderation.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Google search result for --scrambling--

scram·ble
ˈskrambəl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: scrambling
1.
make one's way quickly or awkwardly up a steep slope or over rough ground by using one's hands as well as one's feet.
"we scrambled over the wet boulders"
synonyms: clamber, climb, crawl, claw one's way, scrabble, grope one's way, struggle, shinny
"we scrambled over the boulders"
2.
make (something) jumbled or muddled.
"maybe the alcohol has scrambled his brains"
synonyms: muddle, confuse, mix up, jumble (up), disarrange, disorganize, disorder, disturb, mess up
"the alcohol has scrambled his brains"

Oh well, any excuse to rhyme Paris with three serves a message with more than pedestrian's muster whether usually or triptychs' 'illy.

This is a link to Earthly Delight's Garden artwork original to its time by one Bosch, as they say.

wholelottasplainin' said...


8. Hillary made a point of repeatedly saying "jihadi".


She was actually thinking out loud about her favorite jehotti, Huma.

Word has it that Donna Shalaylaylayla had her stroke because she was devastated over being replaced by Ms. Abedin.

sane_voter said...

Hillary is asked about the FBI investigation of her emails and she answers with I survived 11 hours in Congressional testimony. Bernie continues to show he is not serious by dismissing it is a serious issue. All those in the audience ought to be nervous rather than clapping.

rogerthistle said...

Coupe says:
"Each nuke costs over 400 million to maintain and store each year. Not to mention the launchers (ships, subs, holes in the ground)".

So Coupe, you just basically make things up based on 'remembering' things that Bernie makes up?

First you say 2 Trillion, then you say the budget is .7 Trillion? That would be $700 Billion per year for our Nukes.

So you thought that 2 out of every 3.5 dollars the gov spends is on Nuke Maintenance? Wow. {and that's without the launchers (ships, subs, holes in the ground)}!!!

Then you had time to think it over and came back with basically 1 out of every 5 dollars is on Nuke Maintenance (but without the launchers..).

What world do you live on where you can have an opinion that we don't need Nukes but think that they eat up 20-57% of our fed budget (and without the launchers)?

This took 15 seconds to Google:

Center for Nonproliferation Studies
Summary
The United States maintains a large and diverse nuclear arsenal to deter potential adversaries and to assure U.S. allies and other security partners. The United States will spend at least $179 billion over the nine fiscal years of 2010-2018 on its nuclear arsenal, averaging $20 billion per year, with costs increasing from $16 billion to $25 billion per year over that time frame. This estimate by no means, however, includes the full costs of maintaining America's nuclear deterrent. The $179 billion includes most of the direct costs of nuclear weapons and strategic launchers, such as missiles and submarines, as well as a majority of the costs of military personnel responsible for maintaining, operating, and executing nuclear missions.

So, Coupe, in summary: Not 2 Trillion per year (your original number), not $700 Billion (your second estimate, the correction of the first) but $20 Billion per year (LAUNCHERS INCLUDED!!).

So you were off by 100 times on your first guess, then got real close - only off by about 35 times.

Missed it by thiiiisss much. A regular Maxwell Smart, you are.

Meade said...

#DumbDebate

sane_voter said...

Bernie says lets make Colleges and Universities into the equivalent of our public secondary schools.

There are already too many people going to college that do not belong there. See for example U Missouri

Michael K said...

Football was much more interesting and important. Stanford-Oregon was worth 20 Democrat pseudo-debates.

commoncents said...

Online Straw Poll - Who won the Democratic Presidential Debate???

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2015/11/online-straw-poll-who-won-democratic.html

sane_voter said...

Tepid audience response to Hillary's Obamacare applause lines.

And Hillary's toughest challenge was deciding to take out Osama Bin Laden. Real tough call, that one.

Browndog said...

Closing statements:

The Burn: Revolucion'!! Follow me, follow me to freedom!
H->: heh- hehe, I win.
O'Malley: I was here. If you don't believe me, check out Youtube a little later.

Guildofcannonballs said...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Hieronymus_Bosch_-_Triptych_of_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights_(detail)_-_WGA2525.jpg

Now I understand, to my own little extent, an extent I assume is tiny yet as extrapolation-worthy as the next gal's, people saying "yeah I see your point but I just don't see it in the artwork here" or similar expressions, expressions uttered with the deep knowledge, formed young and confirmed in ways non-conforming to previously understood to be as conforming as notable others unnote-ed here now in spirit proclaim, and absconding the principle of "and I probably see things in azbycx that you don't, so not only are we all good, we are probably, of course, assuming great synergy such as 2 + 2 = 5 to the power of infinite, both "2"'s defined as underutilized entities with redundant inefficient's body-written profits pre-yielded to make not only a reasonable but Einstein's mind itself boggle.

sane_voter said...

Bernie thinks Billionaires are exerting nationwide mind control via political ad spending, and that is the biggest problem facing America.

pm317 said...

@Althouse, If Hillary were Trump she would have pushed that magic button and made Bernie yell, "I am mad as hell.." Apparently he has a temper.

Bay Area Guy said...

These 3 Dem candidates are a joke and would get people killed due to their incompetence.

Alex said...

If Hillary had her druthers, she'd go all Mr. Burns and press that magic button that made the trap door open underneath Bernie Sanders.

pm317 said...

Hopefully not as many as W did.

David Begley said...

None of them are capable of being president.

Achilles said...

There is a reason the democrat debates are at times when nobody is going to see them.

Bernie isn't the only average intelligence on that stage. Hillary seems... diminished. In 2008 you could ascertain that both Hillary and Obama were intelligent people. Now...

Stroke?

Annie said...

And Hillary's toughest challenge was deciding to take out Osama Bin Laden.

I'd say lying her ass off and covering up her part in getting four Americans killed was slightly challenging.

Funny how taking out murderous genocidal Hussein and bringing democracy (something Clinton fully supported) = bad.

Hillary and obama destabilizing the middle east by taking out Qaddafi and arming terrorists to take out allegedly murderous Assad = *shrugs* what difference does it make?

The woman is dangerously mental.

sane_voter said...

Hillary and the Dems keep saying Iraq was a mistake. Maybe the original decision was in hindsight, but it has only turned into a quagmire because of Obama throwing away the gains and the stability by withdrawing all US forces in 2011. Then they repeat the Bush plan by trying to overthrow the remaining secular dictators in the Middle East to disastrous consequences. the Dems need to be kept away from controlling Foreign policy at all costs.

sane_voter said...

Although overrall they did a good job, CBS still let Hillary off the hook by not asking about

1) signing the Sensitive Compartmented Information Nondisclosure Agreement in regards to the emails. And

2) Huma violating the OF-109 Separation Agreement.

Eric said...

sane_voter:
"Hillary and the Dems keep saying Iraq was a mistake. Maybe the original decision was in hindsight"

In hindsight, knowing what we know now, the decision for OIF was correct. See the explanation of the law and policy, fact basis for Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Also see Recommendation: How to talk about your Iraq vote (advice to Hillary Clinton). Excerpt:
President Clinton was right to strictly enforce the Gulf War ceasefire despite the opposition of the Security Council members that advocated for Saddam in 1998 and again in 2002-2003. Your husband was right to impress the gravity of Saddam's "clear and present danger to the stability of the Persian Gulf and the safety of people everywhere" (President Clinton) upon you as a Senator and his successor in the White House. According to the Iraq Survey Group and the Iraqi Perspectives Project that studied captured regime documents, President Clinton's dire warnings about Saddam from 1998-1999 were correct. But for the regime change, Saddam would have rearmed - was in fact already rearming in violation of UNSCR 687 - Saddam was a terrorist and tyrant, and Saddam's peculiar decision-making, ambition, and the nature of his regime were not reconstructed as mandated by the Gulf War ceasefire.

When the the law, policy, and facts underlying Operation Iraqi Freedom are correctly understood, it is clear that your husband and his successor in the White House were right about Saddam. Your critics and competitors for the Democratic nomination for President are wrong now and they were wrong in 2008. You were right to vote for the 2002 AUMF.

Achilles said...

"I am very optimistic about Iraq. I think it is going to be one of the great achievements of this administration."

Joseph Biden in 2010
Vice President of the United States
Democrat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOcPCrGRs6k

Pulling out and abandoning Iraq to ISIS was the mistake.

rcommal said...

Oh, for fuck's sake, let's make a point of stating it plain:

No, we do not need a revolution. What we do not need is a revolution. Specifically, that which we do not need is this: a revolution. Any one, any person, who thinks that what is needed is a revolution ought to be scrutinized as closely and ruthlessly as possible on account of their personal need for a revolution.

rcommal said...

[... of thinking...]

averagejoe said...

There's not much that's more ridiculous than an 80 year old coot who's been employed in running the government for over forty years, complaining about the government and calling for a revolution. No fool like an old fool.

averagejoe said...

Got to applaud my fellow commenters tonight for their enjoyable and insightful wit and humor. Particular kudos to:

Meade at 8:25 PM, Browndog at 10:02 PM, & rcommal at 2:24 AM. Thank you for the chuckles...

Coupe said...

rogerthistle exposes coupe's math...

I guess the real question, so as to not cause any math uprisings, is 5000 nuclear weapons an asset, or a debit?

Would 1000 be more of an asset, or less of a debit?

If 4000 nukes were retired, what amount of money could be shifted to conventional war programs.

Is 5000 nuclear weapons a non-issue for 2016?

Humperdink said...

Nukes are clearly an asset. They would bring big $$ on Ebay. With the proceeds, the US could make college free and retire student debt. Or do the roads and bridges thingy.

dbp said...

"7. Bernie Sanders says ISIS and al Qaeda want to take the world back "several thousand years," but that would be long before the birth of Mohammad."

Ah, if only Bernie had an "R" after his name. This would get seriously "fact-checked".

Fen said...

7. Bernie Sanders says ISIS and al Qaeda want to take the world back "several thousand years,"

Right. Because that's when the Global Climate was in perfect balance.

ISIS is just taking direct action on Global Warming...

Bruce Hayden said...

I might consider taking in 65,000 Syrians if they are demonstrably not Muslims. Otherwise no way.

Except that there was an article yesterday that Christian Syrians wouldn't be getting political sanctuary in this country - which apparently leaves mostly Muslim Syrians. Never mind that ISIS' jihad involves sexually enslaving and/or killing pretty much all of the non-Muslims in the area, including, of course, some of the oldest Christian congregations in the world.

I would suggest that if this is true, that it is a result of electing a President who was raised Muslim before he started to practice Christianity.

jr565 said...

To Bernie:
You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
Bout when you talk about destruction (socialism)
Don't you know that you can count me out.

Seriously, we already had the revolutionary candidate. How was hope and change? I dodnt want even more extreme hope and change.
But I almost do.
I almost want to get the socialist elected and get his hands on the levers of power just so he can muck things up so bad, we never go to socialism again.
Only, thst won't stop the socialists.

Curious George said...

I'm sure ISIS and AQ watched and said "Business as usual". The left will only learn in the last few seconds of humanity. And maybe not then.

madAsHell said...

Not that much has changed since 1976, and neither has my attitude.
Howard Beale/Peter Finch died in 1977 at 60 years of age.

Char Char Binks said...

I don't care if you're mad as Hell, you're going to take this some more.