"My friend Cesar works the deli counter at my neighborhood grocery store. He is Dominican, an immigrant, early 50s, and listens most mornings to a local Hispanic radio station, La Mega, on 97.9 FM."
Their morning show is the popular “El Vacilón de la Mañana,” and after the first GOP debate, Cesar told me, they opened the lines to call-ins, asking listeners (mostly Puerto Rican, Dominican, Mexican) for their impressions. More than half called in to say they were for Mr. Trump. Their praise, Cesar told me a few weeks ago, dumbfounded the hosts. I later spoke to one of them, who identified himself as D.J. New Era. He backed Cesar’s story. “We were very surprised,” at the Trump support, he said. Why? “It’s a Latin-based market!”
“He’s the man,” Cesar said of Mr. Trump....
Informed by Noonan that he's supposed to be offended by Trump, Cesar said:
No, you have it wrong. Immigrants, he said, don’t like illegal immigration, and they’re with Mr. Trump on anchor babies. “They are coming in from other countries to give birth to take advantage of the system. We are saying that! When you come to this country, you pledge loyalty to the country that opened the doors to help you.... We don’t bloc vote anymore.... The elite have different notions from the grass-roots working people.”
So she says. Read the whole thing. If you're not a WSJ subscriber, the link won't work, but if you Google some text, you'll be able to get in.
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51 comments:
You know who is hit hardest by the criminals coming from Mexico? Could it be immigrants from Mexico?
I live with these people and actually talk to them. They are in fear. It is not something you will see reported in the press for obvious reasons but the cartels are here and in force. It will be impossible for the progressives to hide for long.
It looks like the Google some text back door isn't working anymore. But my attempts to do so indicated that there are a lot of liberals who hate this article.
Anecdotal evidence is always questionable, but at least Peggy is getting out of her ivory tower a bit. I have witnessed a similar phenomenon amongst some acquaintances here in the mid west -scandinavian/german stock. Their take on Trump is he is saying things that they would like to be shouting at the government and good for him.
Peggy Noonan occasionally still turns out a nice phrase. But this column is a waste of bandwidth. She may be the least reliable reporter on Spanish-speaking communities imaginable.
It's all well and good that Peggy is falling into the "data is not the plural of anecdote" trap, but the polling data do not support her anecdotal impressions. Trump has historically high net negatives with Hispanic voters in every legit poll that has come out in the past 6 weeks. No other Republican is within 40 points of his net negatives.
Even Walker, who has an immigration proposal nearly as restrictionist as Trump's, is positive with Hispanics. Why? Because Walker and other Republican candidates are not intentionally being assholes with their rhetoric.
I do find it incredibly racist to believe that "Hispanics" want illegal immigration.
As if "Hispanics" are any kind of group, and as if they aren't people with their own individual opinions.
“When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse” -- Osama Bin Ladin, 2011.
Beldar said...
"Peggy Noonan occasionally still turns out a nice phrase. But this column is a waste of bandwidth. She may be the least reliable reporter on Spanish-speaking communities imaginable."
So who is more reliable? Jorge Ramos?
Trump isn't my first choice by a long shot, but he is saying and doing the right things.
You guys keep trying to tear him down. You keep trashing his supporters just like Romney did in 2012. If you are trying to win an election you are doing it wrong.
We go to a Bible study hosted by a Filipino woman and her white, US Citizen husband. She is an immigrant. The waiting list for her to immigrate anyone else from her family (She has applied) from the Philippines is 17 years.
She really, really, really, really, hates illegal immigration. She is convinced if there weren't so many taking cuts in line, the waiting list would be a helluva lot shorter than 17 years.
The Dominicans have their own problems with illegal immigration, and they have, in the past, handled it with far less charity and forbearance than the Yanquis. Perhaps the man didn't want to be a hypocrite........At any rate, it is possible for both a Hispanic and a non Hispanic to be against illegal immigration without being a bigot. I think the attempt to paint anyone opposed to open borders as a bigot is itself a form of anti white bigotry.
The people I know trying to get in and stay in legally are VERY ANGRY about the idea of amnesty. They feel like if you're going to give preference to people who sneak in, you should have made that clear before they hired their lawyers and paid their fees.
This is why I think any amnesty will have to come with "Automatic green cards for anyone who was already engaged in the legal process."
In America, we don't like 'line-jumpers.'
But I still loathe Trump.
I remain skeptical. His net disapproval numbers among Hispanics are stratospheric. But I remain open to the possibility that, just maybe, his appeal here might be larger than most of us think. Perhaps this might be a potential manifestation of what a Canadian friend calls the Rob Ford effect.
It's like global "warming". The models say one thing, and the science is settled. But the facts don't care.
The "intellectual elites" and "opinion leaders" can only be trusted as to the opinions of their cocktail-party confreres. The facts on the ground - they have no idea.
I think that Trump has real crossover potential. More than any of the other candidates. After perusing Trump’s interviews, campaign speeches and website material I’ve concluded that Trump is a … !!MODERATE!!! Yes, I said a moderate, firmly in the middle of the road on women’s healthcare issues, tax policy, economic issues and foreign policy.
An observation: Trump should hire people to try and take over his podium. Ramos did Trump a favor by acting the way Ramos did. And I predict the polls will reflect it.
With Trump I believe we are witnessing a master communicator.
There’s a custom I ran into while living in NYC years ago: The Dozens.
http://tinyurl.com/q46qyms
I was working at the New York World’s Fair out in Flushing Meadows when I saw it first hand among my New Yorker co-workers. Trump is from Queens and is very good at the political version of the dozens.
"It looks like the Google some text back door isn't working anymore."
Works for me.
I'm not trashing Trump's supporters. I'm trashing Trump -- if by that you mean pointing out the inconsistent facts from his past, his spectacular lies, his lack of coherent positions even at present.
Some of his fans take that as being personal attacks on them. That's unfortunate and unjustified. But I suppose it's hard to point out that a con man is in the middle of pulling his con without some of the people who are being conned finding that disturbing.
I can live with that.
"Blogger eric said...
We go to a Bible study hosted by a Filipino woman and her white, US Citizen husband. She is an immigrant. The waiting list for her to immigrate anyone else from her family (She has applied) from the Philippines is 17 years.
She really, really, really, really, hates illegal immigration. She is convinced if there weren't so many taking cuts in line, the waiting list would be a helluva lot shorter than 17 years."
My wife is another legal immigrant who hates illegal immigration. Her many immigrant friends feel the same way. They played by the rules which makes them chumps. Instead of going through all of the time and expense required to come here legally and become productive taxpaying citizens, they could've slipped across the border, demanded free stuff, and have politicians offer them a fast track to full rights like all the cool kids. What's not to love?
Beldar said...
"I'm not trashing Trump's supporters. I'm trashing Trump -- if by that you mean pointing out the inconsistent facts from his past, his spectacular lies, his lack of coherent positions even at present."
He is pushing immigration front and center. He is telling truths about immigrant crime the media and the establishment are unwilling to let into the open. His personal inconsistencies are utterly trivial compared to Marco Rubio who two years into his term as senator openly broke a campaign promise and tried to pass amnesty.
If you bring up Trump's past that's fine. But be consistent and note that Marco Rubio is a liar and a betrayer. Note that Bush thinks american's are lazy and we need Hispanic immigrants. Note that Chris Christie is pro gun control. Mitt Romney wrote, passed and implemented Obamacare. The last thing we got from a republican president and majorities in the house and senate was a giant new drug entitlement program.
I will take trump over any of that.
Instead of going through all of the time and expense required to come here legally and become productive taxpaying citizens, they could've slipped across the border, demanded free stuff, registered as Democrats and have politicians offer them a fast track to full rights like all the cool kids.
There, fixed it for you.
What Larry J said.
My wife is a naturalized citizen from Hong Kong. Her parents started the process when she was 4. I will have to ask her if she got her papers before she graduated from high school. It was around there.
She does not like illegal immigration.
Blogger Larry J said...
My wife is another legal immigrant who hates illegal immigration. Her many immigrant friends feel the same way. They played by the rules which makes them chumps. Instead of going through all of the time and expense required to come here legally and become productive taxpaying citizens, they could've slipped across the border, demanded free stuff, and have politicians offer them a fast track to full rights like all the cool kids. What's not to love?
I've a feeling there is a silent majority out there of immigrants who are as angry as the rest of us over the illegals.
But what to make of the polls that put Trump at the bottom? I'm not sure yet. Maybe they are polling a lot of illegals? Do the polls factor for that?
I suspect Trump is a moderate, not a conservative. Even so, if he is able to push through immigration reform? Then we can certainly survive his moderate policies. We're losing our country to a very slow invasion. These are good people coming here, but good people often times make wrong headed decisions. And in my experience, they all vote Democrat. Over 90% of them. No matter how good of people they are, if they give us the governments they left behind, we're going to end up turning our country into theirs. And I can't see that as a good thing.
This needs to stop, and so far, Trump is the only one pushing to stop it.
Beldar said...
"Some of his fans take that as being personal attacks on them. That's unfortunate and unjustified."
To continue I will also point out you are dodging what he is saying. By going after him personally you are attacking what he is saying and his supporters like what he is saying. It is widely known and understood that if you want to kill a message one way to do it is you go after the messenger.
You are doing the work of the progressives by attacking trump personally and ignoring what he is saying. I don't take it as a personal attack. I take it as someone who is putting the republican party first over the ideas the base wants dealt with.
William: At any rate, it is possible for both a Hispanic and a non Hispanic to be against illegal immigration without being a bigot. I think the attempt to paint anyone opposed to open borders as a bigot is itself a form of anti white bigotry.
Along those lines, ever notice that when a candidate or party has low approval ratings among minorities, it means that the there is something wrong with the candidate (or the party)? However, when a candidate or a party has low approval ratings among whites, it means that there is something wrong with the whites.
Intriguing, no?
Also intriguing - candidates and parties are constantly being advised that they must appeal to "the fastest growing voting demographic" if they want to win, and be careful not to alienate them. But strangely, the conventional wisdom among candidates and advisors is that not only is there no downside to insulting and shitting all over what is actually still the largest voting demographic, with the highest voting rates, but that it's a winning move.
If this made sense to me I guess I, too, could be a political consultant for fun and profit.
WSJ leaves this access open. It's intended and not a secret.
He views the key political fact of our time as this: “Over 80% of the American people, across the board, believe an elite group of political incumbents, plus big business, big media, big banks, big unions and big special interests—the whole Washington political class—have rigged the system for the wealthy and connected.”
Yup. That's probably what p*ss*s me off the most about Obama, that he inveighs against income inequality while tirelessly working to increase it.
Is Peggy Noonan actually so thick as to believe that Dominicans have natural affinity for Mexicans because of a shared language? Has she ever actually spent any amount of extended time with working class Dominicans or Puerto Ricans or Cubans? They trash Mexicans all day long. Does she have any clue that one of the big political concerns in the Dominican Republic right now is making sure that Haitians stay on their side of the island?
"We don’t bloc vote anymore.."
Blacks vote in blocs, they voted for Dear Leader for his skin color. See what they get... worst unemployment ... illegals to take over their jobs.
I don't care much for Trump. I don't like his egoistic demeanor and think foreigners will find him susceptible to flattery or, should they want a fight, to threats. I don't like his hair. I think he's an asshole.
Now, look at who we've got in office. An incomparible, supernally accomplished asshole. Look at his "opposition". Each and all of them lying, self serving assholes.
Do the numbers start to come into focus now?
A couple of days ago AA said something regarding Trump along the lines of we're so fucked. I don't see any way out of the fucking we're already getting. Fucked left and fucked right. That's us. I may not vote for Trump. But if H! Looks strong in my state I sure as fuck will.
@ Achilles (8/28/15, 5:06 PM): I don't think the Republican Party's base is well served by someone who isn't really conservative, isn't really a Republican, isn't truthful, isn't smart about anything but self-promotion, and isn't capable of beating anyone the Democrats nominate.
I'm not "dodging what he is saying." On any given position he's taking now -- you name it: immigration, healthcare, taxes, Hillary Clinton's incompetence, whatever -- he's very publicly taken the opposite position before. You're attributing vastly more coherence to the man than his actual words will support.
I'd love to see this be about issues. Trump isn't about issues. Trump is about Trump.
J. Farmer said...
Has she ever actually spent any amount of extended time with working class Dominicans or Puerto Ricans or Cubans?
The simple answer is no. She regularly just makes shit up to advance her argument. One of her writing tics is to pretend that she has just had a conversation with some common person. She does provide insight into the thinking of one class of Republican apparatchiks. I read her column most weeks and find her less entertaining than Maureen Dowd, but somewhat similar, although Dowd does seem to know some actual common people, the rest of her family.
People may very well know one or two individual immigrants who think Trump is one the right track, but that means very little in the aggregate. All the polling data from multiple pollsters of a variety of methodologies show the same thing. Trump is toxic waste with Hispanic voters, and immigrant voters generally.
Every other Republican candidate is orders of magnitude more acceptable to non-white voters than is Trump. He's poison to any hope of the Republican party being even marginally competitive with any minority voter demographic.
If I were of a conspiracist bent, I would suspect that the little meeting that Trump had with Bill Clinton back in he spring included discussion of how to be so repugnant to Hispanic voters that he would alienate them from even considering candidates like Walker, Cruz, Bush, Or Rubio. Especially Rubio, who is the exact oppposite of everything that Hillary is.
Hillary, and really any Democrat candidate being considered, cannot hope to replicate Obama's pull with black voters, so the Dems need to keep Hispanics from defecting, too. Especially since it is likely that at least one of the two slots in the R ticket will be occupied by either someone fluent in Spanish, or someone who is ethnically Hispanic, or in Rubio's case, both.
I clicked through Drudge and it opened right up. No subterfuge needed.
Illegal immigration is a violation of Americans' civil rights. It also serves to obscure the consequences of human rights violations, including: "planned" parenthood, and motives for mass emigration.
trumpetdaddy: Trump is toxic waste with Hispanic voters, and immigrant voters generally.
Every other Republican candidate is orders of magnitude more acceptable to non-white voters than is Trump.
But too bad so sad, the donor-favored Republican brand-name candidates are toxic waste to the those ghastly bitter-clinger white voters they absolutely need to have a chance in hell of winning an election.
Why doesn't the GOP just do everyone a favor and crawl in a hole and die? Maybe Trump was sent by a merciful God to put the GOP out of its (and our) misery.
So she says? Well anecdotally, I have friends who were raised by LEGAL Mexican immigrants and they feel the same. So do my German (citizenship through serving in the U.S. Army, many of them) and Polish LEGAL immigrant friends.
Media likes to act like those who insist on documented immigrants are anti-immigrant. Meanwhile, all of my grandparents came to this country the following way: sponsorship via friend or relative who had a link to a job (names and addresses required as well as where the immigrant was going to live), friend/family vowed to be responsible for the immigrant. The men came first, worked, saved (one ship builder, 2 elevator operators and one teamster among them) and older sons came second to work and save more, then the rest came as could be afforded. Mom and youngest last. They also turned around and put up other relatives and people from the old country as house-borders until they got on their feet. No one expected housing and things to be given to them.
How do I know all this for certain? Through ship manifests and naturalization papers at the National Archives. Really neat and extremely well documented (also great because the naturalization paper have specific dates as well as birth dates of all children). Highly recommended. I also got the draft registration cards for the WW1 and 2 (too old to serve in battle) for my grandfathers and one's service in the naval yard building/engineering ships (which he learned in the British Merchant Marines) in the Brooklyn Navy Yard.
"...One of her writing tics is to pretend that she has just had a conversation with some common person."
That's one step above pretending you had a dream.
Peggy Noonan is sounds so New York establishment in this article. It might inform her opinion if she actually new and spoke to a few Mexican/Central American immigrants. They are not as stupid as both Parties treats them. A) They know the border is a mess and a humanitarian crisis. B) That security enforcement is important. C) That immigration reform is not the top their issue.
Jobs and education tops their list... just like everyone else. I suggest she get out a bit more.
Ann Althouse said...
WSJ leaves this access open. It's intended and not a secret.
8/28/15, 6:07 PM
My bad. I find WSJ is more readily accessible the day after initial publication.
Anglelyne said...
Why doesn't the GOP just do everyone a favor and crawl in a hole and die?
"Goest thou and do likewise." - bitch.
Wow, you mean Peggy Noonan is an out-of-touch elitist living in the DC political bubble? The dickens you say! Well, I can only hope that La Peggy makes a weekly adventure of talking to her servants, her driver, gardener, maid, butler, washwoman, cleaning people, cook and the others who can provide her with a sense of the common man. We're sure to see how absolutely and completely clueless this woman is, and what a fitting representative she is of the Royal Political Pundit class. "My goodness, I actually spoke to that woman who makes my meals this morning- Do you realize that she is not Mexican? And she says she doesn't love President Obama! Oh my!"
"So she says."
So now our indefatigable blogress here is implying Peggy Noonan may have just made it up...
And the Salonification of this blog continues unabated.
I don't think the Republican Party's base is well served by someone who isn't really conservative,
Then we'll just have to change the base. What we are witnessing is not only a coup within the Republican party but a fundamental realignment of American politics such as occurred with Jackson, Lincoln, FDR, and Reagan. I'm enjoying every minute of it.
"I'd love to see this be about issues. Trump isn't about issues. Trump is about Trump."
But he is popular because of the issues he raised. No other candidate was able to make the happen. If it wasn't for trump we would be talking about what parts of Obama care to keep and how much less we would grow government and how much slower to grow the national debt.
The only reason to want him gone is to go back to the GOP lies and the backstabbing of it's base that got us here.
What Luke said. It is clear both parties in DC are serving DC not their constituents. The GOP will either become the party that serves the country or disappear. If it takes truMP down like it took Newt down in 2012 it will never win a national election again and there will be a third party.
The children of illegal aliens were never intended to be citizens by the words of the 14th Amendment itself, and the Congressmen who actually wrote it.
This is what Senator Howard, the sponsor of the bill said,
"This amendment which I have offered is
simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by natural law and national law, a citizen of the United States.
This will not, of course, include persons born in the US who are foreigners,aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or ministers accredited to the
United States, but will include every other class of persons.” Congressional Globe, 1st
session 39th Congress, 1866, pg. 2890
This is what the Congressional Research service says that Senator Howard said in its analysis of the 14th amendment as published by the Library of Congress:
"The sponsor of the
language said: ‘‘This amendment which I have offered is
simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is . . . a citizen of the United
States.’’ Id. at 2890.” FOOTNOTE 4, pg. 1672, Congressional Research Service Analysis of the 14th Amendment, Library of Congress
Within the " ..." left out by the CRS is, "is by natural law and national law,"
Of course "natural law and national law" is "law of nations" the original Common Law of the United States, which would never say that the children of aliens are US Citizens, and would also never say that the children of non citizens are natural born Citizens. The CRS didn't want to overtly lie, so it lied by omission, by leaving out "is by natural law and national law," and by leaving out the next sentence,
"This will not, of course, include persons born in the US who are foreigners,aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or ministers accredited to the
United States, but will include every other class of persons.”
I guess that the CRS never thought anyone would go and check what the Congressional Globe actually says at pg. 2860. Now you know. Of course a "Con Law prof" would certainly know this right? There will be no response because she knows that I an right, and she is an Ivory Tower liar.
There are MANY MORE than 30 million illegal aliens within the US (as if 10% of the country is not enough). How many children did they have? I guess it is impossible to put that genie back in the bottle, but they and their parents need to go, and when they are 21 they can claim that US Citizenship that was given to them fraudulently by the traitors in Congress, who have hidden behind the CRS, who has no force in law, if they choose. If they do not it will expire at the age of 22.
The GOP will either become the party that serves the country or disappear
The problem isn't with all Republicans. Republicans are dominating state and local politics almost everywhere, and by most accounts doing a good job.
The problem is with the establishment Republicans in Washington D.C.. If we could get rid of Boehner and McConnell the way we got rid of Cantor things would improve over night.
n.n said...
Illegal immigration is a violation of Americans' civil rights
Really? Which right of yours is violated by someone coming here from another country? When an immigrant rents or buys a place to live, he does so by making a voluntary transaction with a landlord or seller. When he eats, he eats food that he paid for. Same with transportation, etc. As for schooling, if he pays rent, he is indirectly paying the landlord's property taxes, which is true of native renters as well. And property taxes pay for schools and most local governments. Most studies have shown that illegal immigrants who are not on welfare pay more in taxes than they use in services, so no right of yours is violated there, either.
So I'd really like to know: Just where do you get off telling people where they can or cannot live and work? I've read the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence several times, and I don't see anywhere that you have the right to have neighbors who look like you and speak your language. If you want to spend the money to live in an area the immigrants can't afford, go right ahead. It's a free country. Or at least it used to be.
Easier link thanks to syndication: http://patriotpost.us/opinion/37284
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