March 17, 2014

"Obamacare leaves the average 27 year old facing a gender-averaged 47.5 percent premium increase..."

"Even after subsidies, that’s an expense that many Millennials can’t afford. Perversely, such high costs make it even harder for us to purchase health insurance in the future, when we can afford it. By not signing up for expensive plans now, insurance rates will increase as soon as next year — for everyone. That leaves us with two choices: Buy an unaffordable plan now, or wait and buy an unaffordable plan later."

From a piece in the Las Vegas Review-Journal titled "We’re young, but we aren’t stupid."

"Gender-averaged"? I'd like to see that broken down into what the average increase is for a 27-year-old male and a 27-year-old female. The decisions are being made by individuals, each of whom is either a male or a female. I assume that males are looking at a much larger increase and are seeing much less advantage in having the insurance and that this is precisely why they are the most desirable members of the pool.

Young males know better than to gripe too bitterly about the burdens on the male. The above-linked article is written by a male — Evan Feinberg, the President of Generation Opportunity (whatever that is) — and he means to express himself strongly, yet he's bound by present-day gender politesse and only tells us about the "gender-averaged" problem.

With so much gender politics pandering to women, it's strange that men, feel the need to adopt a "gender-averaging" approach to talking about problems. I mean, I understand the desire to be safe and adopt a self-defensive posture, but some of this gender etiquette is utterly obfuscatory.

354 comments:

1 – 200 of 354   Newer›   Newest»
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...


I read his comment as a knock on the mandated gender-averaged Unaffordable Care Act coverage mandates.

Curious George said...

"We’re young, but we aren’t stupid."

Let's see...massive unemplyment/under emploment in your age group. Huge debt that you are going to be force to pay. High insurance premiums to offset the aged.

And you voted for this turd again? Yeah, you're stupid too. I mean even Althouse isn't that dumb.

Ipso Fatso said...

"We’re young, but we aren’t stupid."

You voted for this idiot and you get what you deserve. Hey, but you can still feel like you are so special and enlightened.

EDH said...

The writer gives no indication of the dollar amount for the average percentage increase, either, which in fairness to Obamacare is obfuscatory as well.

Curious George said...

"yet he's bound by present-day gender politesse and only tells us about the "gender-averaged" problem."

If you had printed the whole sentence, you'd see this : "Obamacare leaves the average 27 year old facing a gender-averaged 47.5 percent premium increase, according to Forbes.

The whole premise of this post is likely incorrect, he could just as likely been lazy, and used Forbes because of it's name recognition and it was the first thing he found to support his position of too expensive.

And you, a law professor,

The Godfather said...

Maybe it's not "gender etiquette". Maybe this guy figures that if he says it's an "X% increase for a 27-year old man", nobody will hear another word he says because of all the screaming about a "war on women".

Scott M said...

I mean, I understand the desire to be safe and adopt a self-defensive posture, but some of this gender etiquette is utterly obfuscatory.

Isn't all PC-approved-speech "utterly obfuscatory"?

mccullough said...

Soon it will be considered misogyny for young men not to sign up for Obamacare.

Tom Gallagher said...

With Obama (and most democrats), good intentions are the same as success. As a result, obfuscation and serial lying are the only option they have left to defend failures like obamacare. It's certainly weird, though, that it took five years for people to pick up on this.

Unknown said...

voters must reap what they sow. unfortunately, there is no political accountability for our leaders when they say something like obamcare has an uninsured penalty, which is then upheld as huge potential tax increase by the supreme court. likewise, when there are massive unlawful delays to various portions of law for no other reason than it will hurt, there can be no political accountability. when the president is permitted to lie about keeping your doctors or insurance plans while selling the legislation, there is no political accountability. when voters who lost their insurance are exampted from having to re-purschase insurance on the exchange, there is no political accountability. democracy is premised on the ability of voters to provide political accountability. when the fourth estate is incahoots with the DC leaders, there is no political accountability.

Jane the Actuary said...

I vote for difficulty finding information on the actual impact on men. No one is willing to say that, when young men (who are either older than 26, or younger but aren't able to stay on mommy and daddy's policy because it doesn't cover dependents, or they're uninsured or individually-insured themselves, or on Medicare) decline to buy health insurance, it isn't because they're foolhardy, but because of the human response to refuse to buy even a worthy product if you know you're being required to overpay.

Kind of like university tuition -- as I get closer and closer to having a son in college, it bothers me all the more that an undisclosed portion of the tuition bill will directly subsidize his peers via "institutional financial aid."

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Men, especially young single men, DO face a larger increase because they are being forced to pay, in their premiums, for things that they will not want or need. Pediatric dental. Gynecological and Maternity care coverage. Birth control.

If they were "Free to Choose" they would rationally choose a high deductible catastrophic only plan. But....we are no longer allowed to make those decisions for ourselves. Big Brother or Big Nanny....knows all and makes those decisions for us.

alan markus said...

Why are there only two genders under discussion?

According to Facebook/ABC, there are 58:

Agender
Androgyne
Androgynous
Bigender
Cis
Cisgender
Cis Female
Cis Male
Cis Man
Cis Woman
Cisgender Female
Cisgender Male
Cisgender Man
Cisgender Woman
Female to Male
FTM
Gender Fluid
Gender Nonconforming
Gender Questioning
Gender Variant
Genderqueer
Intersex
Male to Female
MTF
Neither
Neutrois
Non-binary
Other
Pangender
Trans
Trans*
Trans Female
Trans* Female
Trans Male
Trans* Male
Trans Man
Trans* Man
Trans Person
Trans* Person
Trans Woman
Trans* Woman
Transfeminine
Transgender
Transgender Female
Transgender Male
Transgender Man
Transgender Person
Transgender Woman
Transmasculine
Transsexual
Transsexual Female
Transsexual Male
Transsexual Man
Transsexual Person
Transsexual Woman
Two-Spirit

Here’s a List of 58 Gender Options for Facebook Users

garage mahal said...

EVAN FEINBERG

The Creepy Uncle Sam people? LOL

Generation Opportunity, a Virginia-based group that is part of a coalition of right-leaning organizations with financial ties to billionaire businessmen and political activists Charles and David Koch, will launch a six-figure campaign aimed at convincing young people to “opt-out” of the Obamacare exchanges. Later this month, the group will begin a tour of 20 college campuses, where they plan to set up shop alongside pro-Obamacare activists such as Enroll America that are working to sign people up for the insurance exchanges.

TreeJoe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

A neighbor stopped me yesterday because she had heard I am a doctor. Her daughter signed up for Obamacare and found that her doctor won't accept it. Now she can't find a doctor who will. I suggested Kaiser, which has a big clinic and hospital not far away. Apparently, they are not an option. The young women is still looking.

Another neighbor stopped to talk while we were there. The three of us are all Medicare members. Then we got to talking about Medicare Advantage. These women are very aware of the Obamacare impact on Medicare. The daughter is going to write to Obama.

The earth is shifting under he Democrats.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"Later this month, the group will begin a tour of 20 college campuses, where they plan to set up shop alongside pro-Obamacare activists such as Enroll America that are working to sign people up for the insurance exchanges."

You seriously don't see the irony in your quote, Garage?

Michael K said...

OK, garage. If the Kochs are involved my neighbor must be wrong. Right ?

TreeJoe said...

Here's the original set of stats from Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/04/49-state-analysis-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-premiums-by-avg-of-41-subsidies-flow-to-elderly/

One interesting thing is that the post-ACA premium cost for 27 year olds is now exactly the same pre-subsidy. Whereas before, women paid more for men - which made sense, since one of the largest health care costs in the 20s in OB services.

CWJ said...

I keep wondering where all this subsidization of the "old" is. We "old" couple were barely able to keep our coverage. But if we had been thrown onto the exchange, the smallest premium increase we faced was 35%, and it would be 71% for comparable coverage. So who exactly is actually being subsidized?

Mom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott M said...

So who exactly is actually being subsidized?

Easy. Democrat voters that didn't receive waivers.

Bruce Hayden said...

Ann is onto something here. I sold health insurance some 35 years ago, and at that time, young adult males were under half the cost of females their age. Probably a lot less. They mostly don't need to see a doctor unless they are injured, while the females are in their prime childbearing years, and so have "female" problems that males don't face. Female rates didn't increase that quickly as the women aged, up into middle age, whereas male rates started to climb as the males entered their thirties, and maybe crossed the female rates as the females hit menopause. Age rating males probably resulted in their rates growing more than 10x between when they become adults and then were eligible for Medicare. Not nearly that much for females.

And, that is why ObamaCare was built on false hopes and wishful thinking. Believing that these young males would sign up and support everyone else by paying large premiums, and making almost no demands on the health care insurance system. But, they aren't going to, no matter how cool Obama makes it seem.

Many of you have probably heard this story before, but for awhile 6-10 years ago, I was working part time at a large ski resort doing skier (and boarder) safety. What that meant was that we were on our skis and boards all day, rotating around the mountain, getting more slope time than anyone else on the mountain. Most of the paid staff were young males, from 18 to maybe mid twenties (some were looking for the ski patrol, where you had to be 21). The area offered accident insurance for $10 a month, and health insurance for not that much more. So, we had one guy land on his head on his day off, necessitating a trip to the clinic. Doctor wouldn't sign off on his going back on skis at work until he got an CAT scan (or MRI?), and he couldn't do that, because he didn't have any insurance. So, he spent the last month of the season as our dispatcher, riding the lift up and down every day. The interesting thing though was that none of the maybe dozen young males had opted to pay even the $10 a month for an accident policy that would have paid for the required MRI/CAT scan. That was about the cost of three beers, and the three beers were more valuable to them than the insurance. Imagine now their reaction to being pushed heavily to pay probably > 20x times that much a month for the minimal ObamaCare policy, that covers all those female problems, as well as a lot of male maladies that they won't likely face for another 20-30 years. They aren't even allowed to take out true catastrophic policies like my mother took out for a brother of mine when he wasn't employed. Full boat bronze plans, or else...

Sure the Julias are likely to sign up for ObamaCare. They (intentionally) get a lot of freebies. The guys don't. This is just more of the War against Males, and many of them are doing the logical thing - dropping out, and going snow boarding, mountain biking, or just staying in their parents' basement playing video games. Not a good base for reinvention the American medical industry.

DKWalser said...

A 30-second google search would demonstrate for you that women pay higher premiums then men, especially when younger. While both men and women are overwhelming healthy in their 20s, the cost of OB/GYN services and pregnancy-related services in particular are borne predominantly in the 20-30 age bracket.

It's true that young women consume more healthcare than young men. (IIRC, the average additional cost is about 30%.) It's no longer true that they pay higher insurance premiums. Obamacare made that illegal. All policies must be sold without regard to gender or pre-existing conditions. And the policies for a 55 year old can cost no more than 3x (IIRC) the cost of the same policy for a 25 year old.

All three of these changes cause young men to pay more for policies than they should. Two of these three cause young women to pay more for policies than they should. They young are subsidizing the old and men are subsidizing women.

Tank said...

Whatever this O'Care insurance is, it's not insurance. It's a utility regulated by, well, by Zero - he just makes up the rules now as he wishes.

Cool.

Birkel said...

I am old enough to remember when when men were asked to support others and volunteered to do so. It was called "family". And the men were promised things in return for their services.

Now government mandates men support others. And the men aren't promised anything in return.

Surprise! Many men are not willing to volunteer for the new arrangement.

Skeptical Voter said...

He's 27. In 27 year old speak, he should have said--Obamacare--we're boned.

But he was polite and goes the gender average route.

SteveR said...

Garage doesn't care, he has a cadillac plan paid for by someone else with a delayed mandate so its still a plan you can like.

April Apple said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dr Weevil said...

alan markus:
When I read that one of the 58 genders is 'bigender' I misread it as 'big-ender', not 'bi-gender', and thought it referred to someone with a big butt as if that were somehow a different gender.

Jane the Actuary said...

Imagine this: it's required by law to buy car insurance, too (of course, assuming you own a car). Imagine that, instead of being able to buy a minimum required policy that covered damage to the other car, and injury to anyone involved, you were required, if you bought any policy at all, to buy comprehensive coverage. Sure, you're still violating the law if you don't have coverage, but is it just to place this requirement on people?

jacksonjay said...

So, in GarageLand, Koch dollars trump Scarlett Johansson, Funny or Die, and LeBron?

April Apple said...

Like a hypnotist, we were propagandized and lied to by the administration and the collective left about the evils of the insurance companies. "Something has to change", they insisted and thoughtlessly preached.
Now these same insurance companies, who crawled in bed with Nancy Pelosi, are poised to rape us for a lot more. So glad the corrupt and the economic inept are in charge.

garage mahal said...

One interesting thing is that the post-ACA premium cost for 27 year olds is now exactly the same pre-subsidy. Whereas before, women paid more for men - which made sense, since one of the largest health care costs in the 20s in OB services.

You mean to tell me that a paid right wing political operative that goes around college campuses and gets girls drunk trying to convince them to forgo health insurance isn't being honest about ObamaCare? No way!

rehajm said...

People respond to incentives. Unfortunately, the ACA needs them not to.

garage mahal said...

One thing we know is right wingers are dedicated to sticking to facts about ObamaCare. To a fault.

Pogo is Dead said...

Why bitch about this now?

Your youth has little to do with being stupid. Many older than you voted for this crap, too.

Face it, you fucked up. You trusted him.
Now do us all a favor and shut up, stand aside, and never vote again, you goddamned fool.

avwh said...

Isn't it odd, when cost-based or experience-based pricing would have women pay more, like health insurance, the law prevents it?

But car insurance and life insurance still cost more for men than women. It's almost as if there's only a war on men.

cubanbob said...

Who did these young men think was going to provide the subsidies to cover the subsidized? Are they really that stupid? It was plainly obvious to anyone that wanted to see that that wasn't a bug but rather the intent of the scheme. Take a huge chunk of money out of Medicare to subsidize Medicaid and then take an even larger chunk from the privately insured to cover the inter-government transfer. The scheme was never hidden.

Scott M said...

[imagine] you were required, if you bought any policy at all, to buy comprehensive coverage. Sure, you're still violating the law if you don't have coverage, but is it just to place this requirement on people?

Better question. Is it just require insurance companies to pay out comprehensive claims every time some idiot totals their hooptie? If you say, sure, but it would only be the worth of the car, which is next to nothing. Okay, fine, but how does that insure the policy-holder has another car afterward? Isn't that the purpose of comprehensive coverage (in most cases, protecting the leinholder)?

Scott M said...

"Something has to change", they insisted and thoughtlessly preached.

The left, once they have power, seems to operate in that manner.

1 - We have a problem and something must be done.
2 - This is something.
3 - This must be done.

cubanbob said...

One thing we know is right wingers are dedicated to sticking to facts about ObamaCare. To a fault."

Yes garage they are unlike you.

traditionalguy said...

Interesting skill our Community Organizer uses to fire up wars on atheists, and wars on Gays, and wars on Undocumented Hispanics, and wars on women, and war on Israeli settlers, and wars on Canadians, and war on Electrical energy generation, and war on gun owners, and war on Syria, and war on private Health Insurance, and war on the Dollar....all until some one named Putin called his bluff.



Birkel said...

garage mahal @ 10:11am

Idiot reads a comment to have a meaning it does not have.
News at 11.

cubanbob said...

The problem with comparing ObamaCare to auto insurance is that no one who doesn't own a car needs to buy insurance. If auto insurance was equivalent to ObamaCare everyone who has a drivers license or could have a license would have to buy a policy even if they don't own a car just because it's needed to smooth out the rates for the others. Wouldn't it be great if you could buy a policy that didn't exclude DUI or multiple traffic tickets and accidents? It's only fair and it's only fair those drivers who through no fault of their own just can drive as well as the rest of us.

gerry said...

You voted for this idiot and you get what you deserve.

...and good and hard.

30yearProf said...

The average 27 year-old VOTED for Obama. It's pay back time.

They are young, a generation used to freebies, now facing reality. I'm so sorry for them.

The Drill SGT said...

somehow gender and age ratings of health insurance is forbidden, but it's just fine for auto insurance

glenn said...

Yes young man, you are too stupid. You fell for that old "free stuff" scam. Live with it.

Tank said...

The Drill SGT said...

somehow gender and age ratings of health insurance is forbidden, but it's just fine for auto insurance


Who, whom.

CWJ said...

DKWalser wrote -

"They (sic) young are subsidizing the old ..."

Which "old" would that be? Please see my 9:54AM comment above.



Tank said...

Hello various commenters !!!

It's not only those who voted for this turd who are "getting it good and hard." We almost 50% who voted against this are also getting it.

Had a party the other night for Mrs. Tank. Lotta 55 - 63 year olds there. Many want to retire soon, but have had that whole scenario immensely complicated by President no-nothing.

Michael said...

Garage!! The Koch brothers are going to embark on a six figure campaign. Six freaking figures. Dude, do you have any idea how much money that is, how far it will go and how much damage the six figures will do to stop the excellent Obamacare progress?

You amaze.

Larry Nelson said...

There is an inverse correlation comparing car insurance to ACA.
Young men pay way more than young women.
We need a gov't program that makes this "fair" --sarcasm off--

Michael K said...

The Democrats are going to try to tiptoe away from this clusterf**k before November but I doubt it will work. They really should have tried harder to get a Republican or two on board like they did with the "stimulus."

DKWalser said...

Which "old" would that be? Please see my 9:54AM comment above.

Have premiums for those over 55 gone up under Obamacare? Yes. That doesn't mean those higher premiums aren't being subsidized by the young. It just means that the additional costs of Obamacare's new requirements haven't been overcome by the subsidy. Had the law not artificially limited the amount premiums could be adjusted for age, the premiums for those over 55 years old would have gone up even more than they did.

While Obamacare is a bad deal for virtually everyone who was insured before the law went into effect, its a worse deal for the young and worse still for young men.

Larry Nelson said...

Garage,
Who is ActBlue?
Ignore my question if your outrage at money influences is partisan based.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php
(sorry, you'll have to cut and paste, don't have time to figure hyperlink on blogger)

garage mahal said...

Garage!! The Koch brothers are going to embark on a six figure campaign

I just read they are re-calibrating. Seems they can't find any real victims of ObamaCare in their TV ads. Which, if you read the comments here, should be amazingly easy.

jimbino said...

Ben Franklin famously recommended that a young man prefer taking an older woman as a lover over a younger one.

My experience in Amerika and outside it forces me to recommend that a young man:

1. Never work on a W-2. Instead do only contract or independent work. If a contractor, be sure to max out your unemployment receipts in off-periods.
2. Never marry or breed. In spite of the fact that non-breeders support the breeders' brats, marrying and breeding are too expensive, limiting in life experience and leading to unhappiness.
3. Learn to reduce your annual tax withholding so that you can permanently refuse Obamacare and never pay a penalty.
4. Seriously consider studying overseas, where they don't practice "affirmative action," which isn't for you anyway, where they charge much less tuition, and where you'll at least learn another language and be exposed to true diversity.
5. Seriously consider working and living overseas in places like Estonia, Hong Kong, and Singapore, where you will not be taxed to support women and their brats.
6. Convince yourself that your Amerikan citizenship is nowadays a liability, since you are uniquely taxed on foreign income, required to sign up to fight foreign wars, and (justly) subject to kidnapping and other "special" treatment as a representative of Amerikan hegemony and interference overseas.
7. Shut the door when you leave, after taking as many classified documents with you as you can. Once you get your assets out, renounce your Amerikan citizenship as smart guys like Eduardo Saverin and, mutatis mutandis, Gerard Depardieu have done when they faced rapacious taxes by a gumming that didn't appreciate their services.

Big Mike said...

Nice job with battlespace preparation by pushing the bogus "war on women" meme. Shuts the Millenial males up before they can even start to gripe about overpaying for healthcare.

The only way young Millenial males can strike back is through the ballot box. If the author of the piece is right -- and they aren't really stupid -- then they'll work to elect Republican candidates. If they don't, then the writer needs a new title for his article.

Gahrie said...

One thing we know is right wingers are dedicated to sticking to facts about ObamaCare. To a fault.

Really?

A Leftist is going to accuse the Right of lying about Obamacare?

Cluelessness and projection, thy name is Garage.

AJ Lynch said...

Obamacare is one of the all-time sneakiest forms of wealth re-distribution ever devised by our leaders.

virgil xenophon said...

Women fall for the "gender normed/averaged" fallacy every time. In the late 70s the feministas waged war on the insurance industry claiming (correctly) that disability ins premiums were far higher for women than for men.
This was because (duh) women have far high higher claims rates for many of the reasons already discussed. However they got a break on life ins premiums, which were lower than those of men due to their longer lived stats and fewer early morbidity instances. The result of Congressional mandates to "equalize" the rates? The ins industry simply raised rates of men to match women for disability ins and raised those of women to match men for life ins--the worst of both worlds (except for the ins industry)

Bruce Hayden said...

The only way young Millenial males can strike back is through the ballot box. If the author of the piece is right -- and they aren't really stupid -- then they'll work to elect Republican candidates. If they don't, then the writer needs a new title for his article.

I think that they are fighting back against the War on Men in the most practical way that they can - they are voting with their feet, and dropping out. Seemingly more and more every year, and this may speed up their exit from the workplace.

As has been pointed out above, traditionally, males contributed significant amounts of their resources to supporting their families, and gained significant social benefit as a result. The goal of males in society was to support a wife and family. But, that has been taken away from them to a great extent these days, with women essentially earning as much as they do, given equality of education, experience, and hours and years worked, and gaining more college degrees. Uncle Sugar (and his associated state governments) has stepped in and replaced men in this role in much of the lower and lower-middle class. So, on the one hand, we have males being lauded for how many children they can have with how many women, while avoiding having to support or help raise any of them. On the other hand, many guys just seem to be dropping out, and looking out for their own selves, playing more than working, etc. And, why not? Why get involved with women other than for brief sexual encounters, when neither society, nor the women, will appreciate anything more from them?

And, it isn't just bad for the moral structure of this country that males are dropping out at such rates. It must be remembered that most successful inventors are male, as are most successful founders and builders of successful companies. And, these companies are the ones that drive the economy, and create the jobs that everyone depends on. Not the government, and not big companies like GE and GM (though they were built by men). Why are we in the sixth year of the Obama Recession? One additional reason is that their policies, and their participation in the War on Men, has driven a number of men out of the workforce, and stripped them of much of the incentive of taking the risks, and spending the hours, building what could be successful companies that will ultimately support everyone else.

CWJ said...

DKWalser @11:08,

Yours is the logical argument, but from our personal evidence it doesn't seem to track with the facts on the ground.

First, our plan wasn't cancelled so it is essentially already in compliance. Second, the base number for my calculation is our 2014 premium so it already accounts for any premium increase '13 to '14. Third and most important, our premiums for at least the last three years (pre-ACA regulated pricing) never increased more than 10% per year. Fourth, my "comparable" comparison is to my current provider, current network. I don't know how much more apples to apples I could make it.

So, if we are being subsidized, I'm finding it awfully hard to see it in a 71% increase. Perhaps you might tell me how much higher than 71% it ought to have been.

Æthelflæd said...

I love that the freaking baby boomers are complaining about the millennial freeloaders. Neither my daughter, nor her boyfriend, voted for Obama. Her boyfriend is a combat veteran finishing his degree in 2 1/2 years with little prospect of getting a good full time job when he is done. Freeloaders, my eye.

jacksonjay said...

Yeah Garage, Crazy Harry said it, and you believe it, all these stories about victims are LIES!

alan markus said...

@ Garage Mahal:

I just read they are re-calibrating. Seems they can't find any real victims of ObamaCare in their TV ads

They need to recalibrate to finding those who, nevermind Obama's assertion to the contrary, are paying more for insurance than their cellphone bill. That should be easy-picking low-hanging fruit.

Bruce Hayden said...

Cluelessness and projection, thy name is Garage.

I think that it is more projection than cluelessness in a lot of progressives. Deep down, they probably know that they (and the rest of us) were sold a bill of goods by their elected Dem politicians. But, I think that they figure that all politicians lie, and so theirs shouldn't be held responsible for lying while they intentionally crashed our health care system. That is just what politicians do. They do what their paymasters want them to do, and then lie to the rest of us.

alan markus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
richard mcenroe said...

Shut up and pay for my Lipitor, ya little punks! You voted for him. And THEN get off my lawn!

Robert Cook said...

"A neighbor stopped me yesterday because she had heard I am a doctor. Her daughter signed up for Obamacare and found that her doctor won't accept it. Now she can't find a doctor who will. I suggested Kaiser, which has a big clinic and hospital not far away. Apparently, they are not an option. The young women is still looking."

I am not a supporter of Obama or Obamneycare, (as I think we need single payer insurance in this country), but I am curious: as a doctor yourself, can you explain why some doctors do not accept Obamneycare? After all, it is private health insurance provided by private insurance companies. What is more objectionable about it than any other private insurance?

garage mahal said...

Yeah Garage, Crazy Harry said it, and you believe it, all these stories about victims are LIES!

Why can't the Koch Brothers find any real victims for their ad campaign? Aren't there like millions to choose from?

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
alan markus said...

@ Larry Nelson:

Garage,
Who is ActBlue?
Ignore my question if your outrage at money influences is partisan based.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php
(sorry, you'll have to cut and paste, don't have time to figure hyperlink on blogger)


Here is the hyperlink: Heavy Hitters: Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2014

Thought I would make it easier for Garage to respond to you.

The Crack Emcee said...

"With so much gender politics pandering to women, it's strange that men, feel the need to adopt a "gender-averaging" approach to talking about problems. I mean, I understand the desire to be safe and adopt a self-defensive posture, but some of this gender etiquette is utterly obfuscatory."


Like talking about what percentage of blacks are violent vs. whites being responsible for most crime overall,...

Jay said...

Can't afford ObamaCare?

Just cancel your cable and/or cell phone.

Problem solved!

Freeman Hunt said...

Government loves to squeeze dollars out of the poor and the young. Lotteries, sin taxes, sales taxes, SS, Medicare, etc.

n.n said...

Obamacare is a tax on survivors. Unfortunately, it addresses neither affordability nor availability. It is a policy of bubble economics. Similar but more costly than increasing minimum wage. Further, since it causes a progressive dissociation of risk, unbacked by productivity improvements, it is also a sponsor of corruption.

Oh, well. Spoil the child and abort the baby.

jacksonjay said...


How about a citation on what you read, Mr. Garage. Kos or DU?

chickenlittle said...

I don't see the problem here. Young men are just wising up.

Jay said...

Watching garage being unable to square his never ending "support" for the 'working man' who's union opposes ObamaCare rather vociferously is kind of funny.

But also expected.

SteveR said...

This is a group that will value getting laid over most everything else. They are used to it being easy and that means agreeing about politics (e.g. War on Women). There is no thinking involved.

cubanbob said...

I am not a supporter of Obama or Obamneycare, (as I think we need single payer insurance in this country), but I am curious: as a doctor yourself, can you explain why some doctors do not accept Obamneycare? After all, it is private health insurance provided by private insurance companies. What is more objectionable about it than any other private insurance?

3/17/14, 11:44 AM"

Cant speak for Micheal K but as my GP said when he went concierge is that the reimbursements aren't sufficient. Notice the difference- doctors aren't rejecting the patients, they are rejecting the payers. They will see you for cash or accept decent private insurance. They are on the other hand refusing in many instances to accept new Medicare assignments never mind Medicaid and ObamaCare insurance reimbursements are no better than Medicare and along with it comes a credit risk as well.

Michael K said...

"Seems they can't find any real victims of ObamaCare in their TV ads."

You mean besides Julie Boonstra ?

RecChief said...

gender averaged just means that young men are bearing the brunt.

Whatever, in reading the first couple of paragraphs of this blog entry, all I could see was vindication for the analysis I voiced to my friends about how the ACA would raise costs. Hmm what other "unintended consequences" were actually predicted by people not voting for the Democrat Party?

And, I have a feeling that this poor young man who claims he isn't stupid voted for Teh Won more that once.

Michael K said...

There are a few more problems that garage probably doesn't have to deal with.

RecChief said...

"yet he's bound by present-day gender politesse and only tells us about the "gender-averaged" problem."

Perhaps we should dispense with the present day gender politeness and speak more plainly.

Xmas said...

"Everyone is required to buy car insurance...".

But car insurance (mostly) covers damage the driver does to others, not themselves. If you crash your car, and it is your fault, your insurance will not cover the damage. You have to pay extra to cover damage to your own car. And very few people pay extra to cover their own car. Covering the loan owed on a car does not count as covering your own car as that money is used to pay off the loan first.

donald said...

Yeah, Robert Cook, the thousands of posts predicting exactly that results just didn't register with your super intellectual powers.

Math is hard huh?

garage mahal said...

You mean besides Julie Boonstra ?

She appears to be saving money.

When advised of the details of her Blues’ plan, Boonstra said the idea that it would be cheaper “can’t be true.”

“I personally do not believe that,” Boonstra said.


That's what Obama Derangement Syndrome will do to you

donald said...

These. These results.

But they were all troglodyte wingers so right on man.

donald said...

You apparently have missed the response to you're billionaires attempting to destroy a private citizen you fat fuck.

jacksonjay said...

Michael K,

What regular person, in their right mind, would come forward after what they did to Julie Boonstra?

Supporters of President Pen and Phone will destroy anyone who crosses their sanctimonious path! I could give you a list, but we all know who they are!

HoodlumDoodlum said...

The Professor said "I mean, I understand the desire to be safe and adopt a self-defensive posture, but some of this gender etiquette is utterly obfuscatory"

Gee, it's almost like men have internalized the lesson that pointing our (or complaining about) objective unfariness vis a vis women is an invitation for an attack. Like, just to make up an example, being called splooge stooges and having someone laugh in their angry scrunched up faces for pointing out a stark and meaningful example of "gendered" unfairness (in treatment before the law no less).
If you routinely beat an animal with would you be surprised if they flinch a bit when you pick up a stick?
More to the point I seem to remember the Professor encouraging men to make arguments in terms most comfortable for women (to speak their language, etc). The writer of the article seems to be doing just that, and the Professor isn't happy about it.
Women: can't talk to them as you would to men, can't use their obfuscatory p.c. language and framing.

RecChief said...

just how many straw men does garage have stashed away anyhow?

Birkel said...

According to garage mahal Julie Boonstra is saving money.

The fact one of her prescription drugs is not covered matters not.
And out of network doctors will cost nothing, according to garage mahal.

Can't keep all her doctors.
Can't keep her prescriptions.

You know what, garage mahal...
We will save a lot of money when Julie Boonstra dies.
You would line me and mine against the wall and pull the trigger, right garage mahal?
Fucking animal!

RecChief said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bob Ellison said...

I'm a victim of Obamacare. Blue Cross canceled my policy of several years. I tried the exchange; it wasn't working. I called Blue Cross; they were swamped. Eventually they recommended a policy "similar" to my old one. My co-pays went from $0/$0 to $30/$70 (primary/specialist). My deductible went down very slightly, and my monthly premium went way up.

There are millions like me. I played the game. I got insured. And then, after Blue Cross had already canceled my contract (and Mr. Obama, they can't un-cancel it, sweetie), after the deadlines passed, Obama re-wrote his law, unconstitutionally, to say I could pretty much do whatever I want.

I did what I thought was required under the law, and I got screwed.

Michael said...

Garage:

You are right! Obamacare is awesome. I beg you to encourage your cohorts to run on the awesomeness of the plan and make sure that you call all the people who say they are being hurt by the plan as being the lying liars they are. Please. Really, it is a good plan, strategic, like you.

RecChief said...

if we are going to be talking athe supposed Koch brothers "buying America" maybe we should remember what the son of current Senate Majority leader tried to do in the gubernatorial campaign in Nevada . I'm sure his daddy didn't know anything about it though. Next time you hear a liberal bring up the Koch brothers, remind them of this.

RecChief said...

Birkel- Garage doesn't care, he is just making omelets.

RecChief said...

Hey Garage, if the ACA, otherwise known as Obamacare is so wonderful, and all of the horror stories are "lies", why is there a need for special exemptions or delays? Looks to me that the de facto leader of the Democrat Party is withholding joy and happiness by not forcing....er.....enforcing compliance for everyone immediately.

garage mahal said...

Can't keep all her doctors.
Can't keep her prescriptions.


Nope. Link.

At some point that has to become embarrassing?

Curious George said...

OnamaCare is the gift that keeps on giving...it gave us the House in 2010. It's going to give us the Senate in 2014. And the White House in 2016. Thanks for dragging this out Democrats!

Michael said...


garage: there you go!! Shot one down. Awesome strategy for an awesome plan. Keep it up big guy. I wonder why the people with brains in your party are running away from this awesome plan? You need to school em up on the topic.

Bob Ellison said...

garage mahal, WaPo itself has been largely discredited on this. See here for the basic story.

I gather this Boonstra-is-a-liar-paid-by-Koch-brothers thing has been rattling around the leftie echo chamber for a while. Pick up a story and run with it.

Aliens! Aliens came down and canceled Bob Ellison's insurance!

Birkel said...

Uh, you are wrong again, garage mahal.

Surprise.
But then you would line me and mine against a wall and pull the trigger wouldn't you?

Todd said...

In any case, one cannot claim that a plan is “unaffordable” when over the course of the year it will provide you with substantial savings. Thus we are changing the rating on this ad from Two Pinocchios to Three Pinocchios.

So if something that used to cost me $500 per month now costs me $5989 in month one and $1 for 11 months, that is still considered affordable?

Not all of us have the option to just blow the crap out of a monthly budget like the Government can.

Math can be hard, budgets can be harder...

Birkel said...

RecChief:

garage mahal is not just making some omelets.

He's a Leftist Hellbent on murder.
Would that he had the strength of his convictions.

avwh said...

Garage must be following his hero, Harry Reid. Reid says they're all liars, all of 'em.

So Garage will come here and refute every single example of Ocare screwing up any American's finances or health coverage.

Hey, Garage, how about showing us all those families saving $2500 per year thanks to Ocare? That should be easy, since that's what Dear Leader promised.

JHapp said...

The effective marginal tax rate for someone who qualifies for the subsidies is incredible. I estimate it to be at least 25% for my case, that is I loose at least 10k in subsidies if I earn 35k vs 75k. And it all up and I am at 60%.

15% federal income tax
5% state income tax
15% social security tax
25% Obamacare
---
60%

What a country.





garage mahal said...

Boonstra did not speak to me directly, but at my request she relayed details of her situation to me through Scott Hagerstrom of Americans for Prosperity (more on that at the end).

Whoop. Stop right fucking there!
-----------------------

And if, if we can get more clueless women on the air who don't even know their details of their own insurance, we can take the House, the Senate, The Presidency. AND THEN, THEN WE WILL TAKE THE WORLD!!!!!1

Birkel said...

Todd:

It's worse than that when you include out-of-network doctors and uncovered prescription drug costs.
So it blows the budget in the first month on the known, guaranteed, even the dishonest hacks at the Washington Post will acknowledge costs.

And then it gets worse.

Birkel said...

You see, garage mahal knows more about the circumstances of this woman than the woman knows about herself.

He's able to know with specificity things that cannot be known because of privacy concerns.

I wish I had the magical power of Leftists.

Bob Ellison said...

Obamacare is good, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar. "It Must Be So".

garage mahal said...

Birkel
Just admit you don't care about all the lies. It's for a great cause!

THE HOUSE. THE SENATE. POTUS. THE WORLD!!

Todd said...



garage mahal said...
Birkel
Just admit you don't care about all the lies. It's for a great cause!


You mean like "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" and "if you like your insurance plan you can keep your insurance plan"? Those kinds of lies?

Seeing Red said...

GM bailout, 100 years of bankruptcy law down the tubes, I grandma & grandpa bond holders got screwed, the non-union Delphi retirement got screwed, US taxpayers got screwed, with the meltdown, mortgage holders who paid their mortgages on time got screwed, why should people who have insurance be any different? The US taxpayer is bailing out the insurance companies, we're getting screwed again. FORWARD!

Curious George said...

ObamaCare is the club. The hunter is the electorate. And the baby seals are Democrats up for reelection.

RecChief said...

Garage. Please anwer the question asked of you previously:

if it's so great, why delay any part of it?

I see you studiously ignore that time and again.

Birkel said...

As suggested above:

Every Leftist politician run on the "garage mahal" platform.
Call anybody who is paying more a liar.
Tell everybody they are doing better than before.

Let's see if we really have been at war with Eastasia this entire time.

Birkel said...

The problem with Obama-Insurance from a political point of view is that the costs are immediately obvious to people all across the country. This is hitting the middle class. The middle class victims of this law have friends who might believe somebody they've never met before is lying -- you know, the 1%.

But now the person telling them about government-imposed pain is a co-worker. A friend. Or even a family member.

So now people are forced to believe either the "garage mahals" of the world or their own lying eyes and ears.

The redistributive game only works when the marks don't realize they're getting duped.

Larry Nelson said...

garage mahal said...
AND THEN, THEN WE WILL TAKE THE WORLD!!!!!


A bunch of small gov't, anti-authoritarian libertarians take the world?
Are you posting (projecting) from Colorado?

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

ObamaCare is the club. The hunter is the electorate. And the baby seals are Democrats up for reelection

THE HOUSE. THE SENATE. SCOTT WAL.....OOPS!

Birkel said...

Real people are suffering the consequences of the redistributive dream.

Ever has it been thus.

And the Leftists will continue to pursue their agenda.
And garage mahal would put anybody here against the wall for his political agenda.
He means it.

RecChief said...

All caps. no answer.

Par for the course.

Let me word it another way:

"If all the problems with the ACA are lies made up by Koch Brother agents, what is there to fix?"

RecChief said...

If it's so great Garage, why are Democrats running with the slogan, "Fix it, don't repeal it"

n.n said...

Trillion dollar deficits; reduced problem set (i.e. a million aborted Baracks, Harrys, and Nancys); and they still can't make health care affordable. Bubble economics is inevitably a catastrophic anthropogenic change.

Alex said...

Health care costs are spiraling out of control. Increasing premiums is how to deal with it or else you reduce the standard of care. There is no free lunch and fail to see the point of all this bellyaching.

Buck up Americans.

RecChief said...

"Health care costs are spiraling out of control. Increasing premiums is how to deal with it or else you reduce the standard of care."

Actually, if you eliminated co-pays, people would actually see what the cost of their care is. Higher premiums mean you are prepaying, it's not really insurance, especially if your risk hasn't increased. basically what obamacare does is spread the cost of the risk around. talk about collectivism

Alex said...

RecChief - when simple surgeries run $20K that's not something most people can afford. There is something horribly broken about the medical industry.

Simon said...

Your fundamental problem here is that the only millenials who are going to sign up are doing so for political rather than medical reasons, and there just aren't enough young people with more money than sense to make the system work.

Birkel said...

Something is wrong, says Alex, therefore we must explode the entire system.
Brilliant analysis, Alex.

I do sometimes wonder why plastic surgery costs have come down. And why veterinarian costs have been flat.

What ever could the difference be, Alex, you brain surgeon you?

Todd said...

Alex, what do you consider a simple surgery?

I don't believe that it is the doctor's time or that of the support staff for the surgery that runs the costs up it is all of the extras that are part of the process so that the doctor and hospital have cover for when something doesn't go perfect and they get sued. They can show these did everything, every test was performed, every possible piece of equipment was available and all of the bases were covered.

Plus you have to pay for all of the admin staff and what not...

Alex said...

Todd - funny that the British NHS doesn't have to worry about being sued. Everyone in the UK has guaranteed health care. Same as in Japan, Israel and a lot of other countries. Yet somehow America is speshul...

Birkel said...

Todd:
The administrative costs are much more unnecessarily expensive than the insurance. And administrative costs are driven by legislation.

Government identifies a perceived problem. Government "fixes" the problem. Government realizes the "unintended" consequences. Government identifies a perceived problem.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

garage mahal said...

If it's so great Garage, why are Democrats running with the slogan, "Fix it, don't repeal it"

I never even said ObamaCare was great. Just that Republican opposition to it is based on laughably false claims most of the time.

ObamaCare IS our health care system now. What are you going to repeal?

Todd said...

Oh I remember, Paul K. said that all of those horror stories about the UK healthcare system was just a bunch of lies and we should not believe our lying eyes...

The waiting lists, the "suggestions" to go to hospice, the laying about unattended to, all NOT true!

RecChief said...

"RecChief - when simple surgeries run $20K that's not something most people can afford. There is something horribly broken about the medical industry."


But the ACA does nothing to address this fact. Insurance is a transfer of risk, not a transfer of cost.

Looks to me like you would like to go back to a time when a large number of the heart surgeries that are performed now weren't done because they weren't possible.

Let me ask you a question about a different industry but you apply the same logic: Why are cars more expensive (when adjusted for inflation) than they were in 1930? And leave labor out of it (there I gave youa hint)

RecChief said...

"Todd - funny that the British NHS doesn't have to worry about being sued. Everyone in the UK has guaranteed health care. Same as in Japan, Israel and a lot of other countries. Yet somehow America is speshul..."

yeah...where they leave people in the hall do die of dehydration

Birkel said...

garage mahal said "ObamaCare (sic) IS our health care system now."

Which parts, exactly, garage mahal? The parts that Obama unilaterally and unconstitutionally delayed? Or the other parts?

Tell the truth. You would line me and everybody else up against the wall, wouldn't you?

Todd said...

ObamaCare IS our health care system now. What are you going to repeal?

Ok, so then let us fix it. We can start with:

- no minimum policy requirements.
- support for catastrophic only coverage.
- no state mandates.
- no cross-state restrictions.
- no business tax breaks.
- no HSA accounts (the accounts if supported should belong to the employee not the employer).
- full disclosure of hospital fees.

I am sure you have suggestions of your own but I think that these would be a start.

Julie C said...

I have two Obamacare and medicare stories. My mother's doctor has gone "concierge" - Medicare reimbursements too low. She also told me that she can't find many specialists willing to see Medicare patients unless they pay cash up front.

My husband and I own a small business (just the two of us employees). Several years ago our insurer suggested getting Small Business insurance rather than more expensive individual policy. So we did. Imagine - an insurance company trying to save us money!

We've received a notice that due to Obamacare and the subsequent regulations our lovely state put into place, our small business insurance plans will soon be invalid since we are a two person business and we are related to one another. So we will be forced to either go onto the state exchange or find other insurance elsewhere.

And finally, I wouldn't for an instant consider going public with any complaints, having seen what has happened to everyone who dares challenge THE ONE.

Michael K said...

"That's what Obama Derangement Syndrome will do to you"

No, it's what math does to you. I'm sure you won't understand.

Blogger Alex said...

" RecChief - when simple surgeries run $20K that's not something most people can afford. There is something horribly broken about the medical industry."

Alex, I've explained this a few times and I'm not going to give you a mini-course in health care economics.

What you see as "surgeries run $20K" is a fiction that is similar to the difference between wholesale and retail prices. The difference is that insurance (or Medicare) is paying the bill and they don't want you to know the wholesale price.

For example, for years I went to a pain doc for my back. His bill to Medicare was $120. The Medicare EOB (Do you know what that is ? If not why are you posting comments on health care ?), told me that Medicare was paying him $11.

That's more than a 90% discount. If he decided to charge me $11 cash, he would have Medicare prosecute him or just reset his "profile" charge to $11 and pay him 10% of that. Most doctors are getting their income from co-pays, not insurance.

The doctors who are going to cash practices, and a few hospitals that are doing so, are discounting prices to the real payment levels they are getting from insurers or Medicare. You can get package deals on coronary bypass, for example, from heart hospitals, like the one in Tucson that did my bypass, with the total cost a fraction of what you read in the paper.

Those doctors will be seeing patients with medical IRAs or alternative insurance plans that are appearing.

You're out of date.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

Alex said...

RecChief - when simple surgeries run $20K that's not something most people can afford. There is something horribly broken about the medical industry.


Do you even THINK through your trite progressive positions?

I would imagine that many surgeries ARE simple. But medical school isn't. Nor is it cheap. And I bet defending yourself being sued for malpractice, is not so simple, ever. What's your position on a cap on judgements? How about loser pays winners legal fees?

No? I thought not.

RecChief said...

I didn't think it possible but Alex's thinking is even shallower than Garage's

jacksonjay said...


Tort Reform!

Alex said...

The simple solution is to take the profit-motive out of the medical-care industry. Nationalize it like every other civilized country has already done.

garage mahal said...

Tell the truth. You would line me and everybody else up against the wall, wouldn't you?

Nah. I'm a big free speech guy. AFTER you're in the camps!

Birkel said...

jacksonjay:

Try harder, troll.

RecChief said...

"I never even said ObamaCare was great. Just that Republican opposition to it is based on laughably false claims most of the time. "

Ah now you hedge. Except all of the "unintended consequences" were predictable, and were predicted. Again, if all the consequences are "lies" why are there delays, exceptions? why? you've still not anxswered the question. your little non sequitor cannot hide that fact. What do you obfuscate? it's such a simple question. why has our president delayed implementation when you say that opposition is based on "lies". That must mean that it works as intended. so, why delay it? explain simply and directly if you can.

Birkel said...

Alex thinks the profit motive will be removed by government diktat. Don't worry Alex, you won't have to ever understand why you're wrong.

Meanwhile, garage mahal, just admit the truth. Say it loud and proud. Admit that you don't care about breaking a few eggs. After all, a few million early deaths is just a statistic, right.

RecChief said...

"The simple solution is to take the profit-motive out of the medical-care industry. Nationalize it like every other civilized country has already done."

can you refrain from using Daily Kos talking points?

Michael K said...

"Nationalize it like every other civilized country has already done."

Yeah, haven't you heard PJ O'Rourke say, "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it is free !"

Remember Obamacare was supposed to make it cheaper ? You also show a lot of ignorance. I've spent years studying health care economics, even going back for another degree after I retired, and nationalizing doesn't work. Even Sweden has been changing.

For much of the last fifty years Sweden has had a heavily socialized health care system. Almost all of the funding comes from government revenue, and most aspects of the health care system, such as hospitals, primary care centers and prescription drugs, are controlled by the government. Doctors could still have a private practice, although by the 1960s about 80 percent of doctors worked in government-run hospitals.2

The Swedish Parliament first tried to provide comprehensive national health insurance in 1946 with the passage of the National Health Insurance Act. Because of financial restraints, it was not actually implemented until 1955. Since that time, that national government has given increasing authority and responsibility for the health care system over to county governments (commonly known in Sweden as "county councils") to the point where they now have more power over the health care system than either the national or municipal governments. Nevertheless, the national government still plays an important role.


A few years ago, when Sweden's income tax rates were sky high, many senior doctors would only work ten months or so, until they hit the 90% bracket, then go to a Mediterranean resort for the last two months of the year. It well known to avoid the last two months to be sick, if you could.

Many years ago Sweden paid doctors fee-for-service to work in the clinic and salary to work in the hospital. Then they learned that the senior doctors were all in the clinic and the hospital patients and surgery were left to the junior trainees.

Haven't you ever been to the Post Office or DMV ?

Todd said...

Alex said...
The simple solution is to take the profit-motive out of the medical-care industry. Nationalize it like every other civilized country has already done.
3/17/14, 2:00 PM


Right, because unlike every other industry in existence, the medical-care industry will fill up with saintly folks that just want to give back! They won't need a profit motive to change your bedpan or clean up after you. They will do it for the pure joy of helping a fellow human being! Same with all of those drug companies slaving away to invent the next miracle cure. If it wasn't for all of those evil capitalists clogging up the healthcare system, we would have unlimited and perfect healthcare for everyone!

Birkel said...

Todd:

You forgot the final piece of the Alex/garage mahal plan.

In order to get rid of, as you write, "evil capitalists clogging up the healthcare system" it will be necessary to stand those capitalists against the wall.

After that we can have social justice. But first, the murdering times.

Blue Ox said...

Alex,

Why do you believe that being motivated by profit (i.e. if you don't do your job well you will not remain in business) is morally inferior to being motivated by political power?

In detailing the latest Obamacare delay, the NYT freely admitted that it was being done for purely partisan reasons. Obama himself proudly referred to the "input" he had sought and received from Democrats facing tough elections. He identified them by name!

Decisions about your healthcare are now being made by politicians acting purely out of self-interest. Openly and with no shame.

And you're worried that the surgeon who just saved your life is driving too nice of a car?

Brian McKim & Traci Skene said...

Welcome to the new (obfuscatory) normal. Hmmm... I wonder who benefits from obfuscation... which side of the political spectrum? Who has traditionally sought to blur the definition of words and meaning? If only we knew the answers.

gadfly said...

The argument about "gender-averaging" doesn't work simply because insurance premiums (before government decided that insurance costs were unaffected by required payments for maladies such as pregnancy and child birth) have always been assessed by actuaries based upon tracked data for such things as care frequency, cost of care and who is getting the care by age, sex and condition.

Females tend to frequent doctors more and thus tend to do the same for their children so these tendencies were built into premiums. Having said that, we also know that PPACA premiums, co-pays and deductions discriminate against the young when compared to non-ACA rates and that has nothing to do with gender.

But now the required "give-away" freebies that the incredibly smart Democrats built into Obamacare will have insurance companies raising prices across the board because "free" changes the tendencies of the beneficiaries - which is exactly what is happening.

In summary - fake is as fake does - and fake means fake insurance. As they say in the hallowed halls of the Supremes, "It's a tax, stupid."

RecChief said...

excellent analysis gadfly. really well done.

RecChief said...

these comments from Alex and Garage are really an indictment of the education system in this country

Brian McKim & Traci Skene said...

Welcome to the new (obfuscatory) normal. Hmmm... I wonder who benefits from obfuscation... which side of the political spectrum? Who has traditionally sought to blur the definition of words and meaning? If only we knew the answers.

jacksonjay said...

Mr Birkel,

Maybe you don't read all the comments! Did you read the list of changes that Todd proposed? I know you did! Have you read any of my comments?

Surely you are aware of the debate concerning the lack of any tort reform in Obamacare! Of course you know that tort reform was proposed by the Republicans in 2010 and rejected! Of course you know that the trial lawyers are huge Obama supporters. Not sure why you consider me a troll!

Seeing Red said...

We should be like the NHS? Bwaaaa don't you read the English papers?

Israel? Money is fungible. Would they be as good if they didn't get $3-4 billion a year from us?

guaranteed health care. Lololol. Until the budget bleeds them dry.

Seeing Red said...

More like a lack of curiosity of other countries.

Alex said...

Todd... people don't become doctors so they can become millionaires with trophy wives. They do it for the love of helping people.

garage mahal said...

Wall Street Journal:

Taken together, the Obamacare provisions are responsible for about three-quarters of January’s overall rise in Americans’ incomes.

NOOOOOO.

Alex said...

The point is health care is a moral right. It's not something that should be subjected to market forces like an iPhone.

Alex said...

garage - I question those figures. It's not the government's job to increase people's incomes. However I do agree that infrastructure(roads, bridges, airports, health care, communication pathways) are. Can we agree to disagree?

Todd said...

Alex said...
Todd... people don't become doctors so they can become millionaires with trophy wives. They do it for the love of helping people.
3/17/14, 2:56 PM

Alex said...
The point is health care is a moral right. It's not something that should be subjected to market forces like an iPhone.
3/17/14, 2:57 PM


For a minute there, I thought you were serious! Good ones!

Birkel said...

Apologies, jacksonjay.

For some reason I thought you were one of the Lefties.

Again, apologies.

I think tort reform accomplishes relatively little but to each their own.

jacksonjay said...


Why is the iPhone or the Galaxy for that matter good and desirable? Duh, market forces!

Alex said...

Doctors Are Not “Only Out to Make Money”

In a recent post, Dr. Crislip describes medicine as “a calling” and explains that he is motivated by compassion.

jimbino said...

We need to put to rest the canard, oft repeated on this blog, that automobile liability insurance is compulsory.

It is NOT. Not in Texas and not in California. Not in New Hampshire and not in Wisconsin. If someone knows where it is compulsory, please let us know.

Birkel said...

This just in:

garage mahal lied.

I know, you're all shocked.

Go ahead and click on his link to the WSJ. It says the "increase in spending" was caused by Obama-Insurance. Increases in spending are counted as increases in GDP, of course.

Garage mahal is functionally incapable of truth telling.

Larry Nelson said...

garage mahal said...
ObamaCare IS our health care system now. What are you going to repeal?

Back to the future: (But first back to the past, to fix the future).
Prohibition is the law of the land now. What are you going to repeal?

jacksonjay said...

No problem, Birkel.

I think tort reform accomplishes relatively little but to each their own.

The Democrats fight it like the Devil (what am I saying, they don't believe in the Devil) and its seems to have worked well here in Texas. They fight it like they fight the KochBros!

garage mahal said...

Garage mahal is functionally incapable of truth telling.

I copied the text verbatim from the WSJ. Also, I have no idea what your point was.

Alex said...

garage - how is the diet going? The last thing we need is more obesity straining our medical system.

Birkel said...

jacksonjay:

I have no doubt that the current tort system encourages rent seeking. But it's help at the margins. Much more important would be to turn the current system into an actual insurance system instead of the massive redistribution system we have in place.

But I tend to appreciate the laboratories of democracy that are the states and would happily be proven wrong.

Blue Ox said...

Doctors Are Not “Only Out to Make Money”

In a recent post, Dr. Crislip describes medicine as “a calling” and explains that he is motivated by compassion.


So the evil for-profit bogeyman you cited wasn't true? That's good to know.

Care to explain why you're comforted by hack politicians pulling the strings on the health care you will be allowed to have?

Bob Ellison said...

Tort reform is a real issue, and the potential savings are hard to compute. Defensive medicine happens mostly because of runaway lawsuits. Doctors pay exorbitant malpractice insurance premiums. The costs run all through the pipeline. It's not just some person with a bad back winning a famous $5m lawsuit.

The trial lawyers give overwhelmingly to Democrats. That's why they fight tort reform, which should obviously have been part of Obamacare-- in fact, with just that one piece, they might have got one or two Republicans on board. But no, no. Nothing to see there.

Birkel said...

"Obamacare (sic) Effects Account for Most of Income, Spending Increases" is the WSJ headline.

IOW, Obama-Insurance has caused increased spending. That is to say, it's costing people more money. And that's true before the full destructive effects of Obama-Insurance are felt.

Of course more spending means a higher GDP. That's the nature of GDP.

garage mahal is unable to tell the truth. It may be a mental condition.

Alex said...

Blue Ox - it's not the doctors, it's the hospitals and their owners that are raking in the big profits. That's the party I want to cut out of this.

Birkel said...

Bob Ellison,

Your point about decreasing the financial incentives for "defensive medicine" is a good one.

I'm for tort reform. But I'm not sure it's a game changer. I think it's arguing on the margins that distracts from the unjust system we now face.

For me it's about priorities. And tort reform is a secondary issue to me.

Bob Ellison said...

Alex, the relatively few for-profit hospitals would like to know where those fat profits are.

The non-profit hospitals, which are more common, would really like to know, because then they could expand services.

garage mahal said...

IOW, Obama-Insurance has caused increased spending. That is to say, it's costing people more money

Where are you pulling this from?

Alex said...

Bob - if those hospitals are barely making any profits as it is why not just go all the way to NPO?

Mike said...

Here's an easy one Garage: Just list all the people who are "saving $2400 on average" without subsidies now that they've been tossed into Obamacare. Should be simple. The President said we'd all save that much, right?

jacksonjay said...

I'm not sure that Garage read past the headline of the WSJ article.

What does this mean?

"On the incomes side, the law’s expanded coverage boosted Medicaid benefits by an estimated $19.2 billion, according to Commerce’s Bureau of Economic Analysis. The ACA also offered several refundable tax credits, including health insurance premium subsidies, which added up to $14.7 billion."

Medicaid benefits and ACA subsidies boosted incomes! SSI, SNAP, unemployment benefits, etc. boost incomes, too!

Alex said...

garage - and no Pizza Hut Crazy Cheesy Crust Pizza is not an 'on plan' item.

Bob Ellison said...

Alex, is this a game to you? If the chicken pecks at the grain, why does the alpaca spit?

Alex said...

Bob - I can treat it as a game since conservatives are acting like children about health care reform. They stamp their feet about ACA because they hate Obama MORE than wanting to fix our broken medical system. Keep stamping away little children....

Birkel said...

garage mahal couldn't faithfully read his own link.

garage mahal is incapable of honesty.

garage mahal would line any and all of us against the wall. And he would happily pull the trigger.

jacksonjay said...


Here it comes!

Bob Ellison said...

Alex, this ground has been covered. Some people in the past have wondered why the owners of the means of production should be allowed to reap a profit. Let me know if you want some reading tips.

Anyway, Big Hospital is not going to be a winning point for you. Big Hospital is not raking in huge money.

Big Pizza, now, that's a money-maker. They sometimes net 10%!

Birkel said...

Alex:

Please point to the metrics by which I can measure success under Obama-Insurance.

That way, when the great things begin to happen, I'll be able to give you your due.

Be specific, please.
Without specifics I won't be able to follow your superior understanding of all things.

William Chadwick said...

The Dumbest Generation hasn't caught on that the State has the power to do FOR you only to the extent that it has the power to do TO you. Of course, even older Democratic votes haven't caught on to that yet.

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