Organizers say they have committed about two dozen of their Washington, D.C.-based staff to poring over the 27,000 pages of emails.....So about 1125 emails per staff member. Guessing at the length of most emails, I say they can get their poring done in 2 days, max.
Larry Sabato, a prominent political analyst at the University of Virginia who had placed Walker atop his early list of Republican presidential hopefuls, said he didn't think the emails and documents hurt Walker.Yeah, also Bridgegate wasn't preceded by years of secret investigation by prosecutors. What do you think would be in there that we haven't heard about yet? Maybe some embarrassing little junky things that people jot down when they're emailing and imagining that they're more or less talking to the other person. We're going to have to get used to reading material like that and being reasonable about understanding this, but maybe everybody needs to see their side burned first.
"I would put a big red asterisk to anything I say," Sabato said, noting the huge number of documents could be hiding something damaging. "It could be Bridgegate. But I don't think it's like Bridgegate. I just don't think it is nearly as serious."
For example — see previous post — what's in all that Department of Agriculture email that the Obama DOJ doesn't want to release in that Shirley Sherrod defamation case against Andrew Breitbart? What bad things did those insiders say in the course of decided to cut Sherrod loose? I doubt very much that it's something like: Now that Breitbart has established that Ms. Sherrod practices racial discrimination, we cannot keep her in her current position of power. It might be something more like: Sherrod is toxic. We can't let that get on us.
Posts
164 comments:
"One, forwarded from Walker’s ex-chief of staff, Thomas Nardelli to Rindfleisch – his deputy – is a joke about an African American “negro” who discovers he is a minority in other ways. “I can handle being a black, disabled, one armed, drug-addicted Jewish homosexual,” the email says, “but please, oh dear God, don’t make me a Democrat”.
Another, sent to Rindfleisch from someone outside Walker’s staff, joked that welfare recipients were “mixed in color, unemployed, lazy, can’t speak English and have no frigging clue who the r [sic] Daddys [sic] are”. “That is hilarious,” Walker’s deputy chief of staff replied. “And so true!”
Regarding the Agriculture Emails, are you certain there isn't something in there that calls Sherrod a "dumb n****r b***h"? That would be par for the "Progressive" Democrats I know.
I appreciate that Soros is paying for the website-ification of the emails. Sunshine is the best disinfectant. Someone should pay for it, why not someone rich?
Some of Walker's minions seem positively dumb if they failed to realize that no email is secret. Never write down in an email something you don't want to see splashed across the front page of the paper.
@Crack
So anybody forwards you some bullshit thing and it counts against you?
That's really scary.
I have people who forward me crap they presumably think is funny, but what the hell am I supposed to do?
I can't make it stop.
MadisonMan,
Some of Walker's minions seem positively dumb if they failed to realize that no email is secret.
They thought they had an occult email system, unconnected to, and unseen by, anyone but the inner circle.
But, yeah, pretty dumb.
Ann Althouse,
So anybody forwards you some bullshit thing and it counts against you?
If your chief of staff answers it with “And so true!”?
Yeah.
I think it was more that any publicity about Shirley Sherrod would be likely to attract attention to Pigford II, which the Dept. of Ag. is proceeding with as ordered by the politicians while knowing full well it is a totally criminal enterprise.
"Regarding the Agriculture Emails, are you certain there isn't something in there that calls Sherrod a "dumb n****r b***h"?"
There must be some scary stuff in there for the govt to be fighting the way it is in that lawsuit. The Ag Dept has its long history with race. There's all that Pigford stuff. Who knows how those people have come to speak to each other, dealing with those things, confronting bad news stories about them?
So Scott Walker fans should accept what's going on now. Take every seeming negative thing seriously. As Larry Sabato says, it's just not that bad. And it will put you on the high ground for criticizing what comes out in the Sherrod case (or whatever else comes out).
I think it's actually pretty good that this light is shone on government.
Consider that the government is spying on us.
"Organizers say they have committed about two dozen of their Washington, D.C.-based staff to poring over the 27,000 pages of emails....."
I keep reading this statement and find myself wondering: "Seriously, is this what our nation and our political processes have boiled down to at this point?"
I know all sides do it to get an edge, but when I when I step back and look at it objectively, it makes me rather sad.
Ann,
Here's the important thing - this was Battlestar Galactica's email system. Only Walker and his hand-picked staff saw this stuff, and they made an effort for everything to be seen by all often, as instructed by the COS. It was also made clear to the staff, by the COS, the boss saw what came through - often.
He's in it up to his neck if he didn't stop it.
Scott Walker fans should accept what's going on now. Take every seeming negative thing seriously. As Larry Sabato says, it's just not that bad. And it will put you on the high ground for criticizing what comes out in the Sherrod case (or whatever else comes out).
That is such a sad way to look at this - just all wrong. Absolutely no feeling for us as a nation at all. Political posturing from right out of the gate. The truth is "negative". Find some ammo now - no matter who's guilty or how or whatnot - I mean, you're white. Prepare to fight, right?
Who?
For what?
What are you defending and why?
I would like to emphasize a point made at a blog I read regularly.
“The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president.
Crack illustrates this nicely.
While you're up there on "the high ground for criticizing what comes out in the Sherrod case (or whatever else comes out)" who are you readying yourself to look down on?
What did they do to you?
Are you leading the attack or following it?
Am I invited - even to watch?
George Soros--typical old white male right-wing plutocrat.
When will those Rethuglicans learn?
What bad things did those insiders say in the course of decided to cut Sherrod loose?
Exactly
I find it refreshing that Crack wants to hold an executive accountable for the actions of his chosen subordinates. I actually agree with him on that. Who you hire says something about you.
Right after the Scott Walker emails, how about we pore over all emails related to Fast & Furious; all IRS, justice department, and FBI emails related to the IRS targeting of conservatives; the "Richard Windsor" emails at the EPA; all emails related to the James Rosen case; all emails related to the AP case; all emails related to the FCC putting monitors in newsrooms; Benghazi; Libya; and Syrian red lines.
Since Crack wants to hold Walker accountable for these statements of Walker's staff, I am sure that he won't have any problem with the above.
Michael K,
Crack illustrates this nicely.
You must be new. I didn't vote for Obama - twice.
Now, can we discuss how attitudes like yours convinced this Republican he was right about the racial situation in this country?
No? You won't consider that, as a white man in America, as you single out a black man - two black men - for criticism? Really? But you're doing your part to heal the wounds of 400 years of white bullshit, right?
Riiiight.
Old spin: There's no there, there!
New Spin: The there ain't that bad. Larry Sabato says so!
RecChief,
Since Crack wants to hold Walker accountable for these statements of Walker's staff, I am sure that he won't have any problem with the above.
I don't see the truth as "negative" so yeah - open anything you'd like, as long as it doesn't threaten national security.
Why would you think otherwise?
I wish you guys wouldn't act like racists, too.
It's bad enough I already think of you that way,...
garage mahal said...
Old spin: There's no there, there!
New Spin: The there ain't that bad. Larry Sabato says so!
You caught that, too? Good one!
I was celebrating by smoking a joint and forgot to mention it,...
So anybody forwards you some bullshit thing and it counts against you?
If people around you are forwarding you racist email maybe you should reconsider who you surround yourself with? And there is this:
Documents released this week show that Gov. Scott Walker told one of his closest advisers "Don't hold back" after she forwarded an anti-Mexican screed to top members of his political inner circle in July of 2010. Link.
I must say that, as an avid admirer of Crack's work, I'm really enjoying this new Althouse/Crack co-blog venture.
I wish you guys wouldn't act like racists, too.
It's bad enough I already think of you that way,...
Again...fuck off.
"I don't see the truth as "negative" so yeah - open anything you'd like, as long as it doesn't threaten national security.
Why would you think otherwise?"
I don't see the truth as a negative either.
But it seems to me that focusing on Walker's emails when there was a 3 year investigation smacks of partisanship.
"I wish you guys wouldn't act like racists, too."
to whom are you referring?
Ahhhhh. Relieved.
I was a little worried about Crack. In the previous thread, he commented, several times and didn't mention how stupid and evil white people are!
Crack is Back!
Gahrie said...
I wish you guys wouldn't act like racists, too.
It's bad enough I already think of you that way,...
Again...fuck off.
ROTFLMAO.
Well, Gahrie, at least I know you're not so racist as to enjoy the accusation.
That's a step,...
RecChief,
to whom are you referring?
The guy who inferred the race man wouldn't be willing to go after the black president's administration, that's whom.
"Here's the important thing - this was Battlestar Galactica's email system"
Actually it was a store bought router to use for non-govt. addresses like gmail or aol accounts. It was not a server, it was not, as Garage refers to it, an "illegal computer network."
Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
True, but if they can't find anything, then they will have to invent something. Remember, Dan Rather's fake-but-accurate document.....and why was Hillary dismissed from the Watergate investigation?
The Crack Emcee said...
The guy who inferred the race man wouldn't be willing to go after the black president's administration, that's whom.
Crack-
I've read enough of your comments to know that you would not have a problem with investigating the President. However, with the amount of racism you've proudly displayed over the last few days, I certainly can't blame someone for assuming otherwise. Not based on your race. Based on your racism.
Nothing says "living in a liberal bubble" like the posts in this thread.
Knock yourself out. The general public is yawning.
Looking forward to the day when a passionate liberal Google employee does a "document dump" of a Republican's family.
Have a Republican candidate who uses an Android? Along with his wife, kids and immediate family members? Off to wikileaks goes every text, email, hangout, web history, etc of ALL of them.
What a wonderful political future.
I agree with The Crack Emcee. These emails are just bad form. If these are my staff members I would insist the use of the taxpayers resources go to improving the effectiveness of government.
Crack Emcee said:
"... at least I know you're not so racist as to enjoy the accusation.
That's a step,...
Agreed, it is a step -- in the wrong direction. No one likes to be slandered, but to back down because of slander is cowardly.
Did they ever get to the bottom of the fake Lisa Jackson e-mail names?
Did Lisa Lehner use fake e-mail names?
The Cracker Emcee: "I must say that, as an avid admirer of Crack's work, I'm really enjoying this new Althouse/Crack co-blog venture.j"
LOL
Crack has clearly given up on the idea that he can drive traffic to his site and has decided to take up residence here.
Think of him as the vanguard of the "Occupy Websites!!" movement.
We can excuse this behavior if we simply consider Crack's squatting here as his own self-enforced "40 pixels and a profile" reparations payment.
Forward!
The emails Crack posted are not in fact racial though. They are indictments of democrats.
For example, the joke about an African American “negro” who discovers he is a minority in other ways. “I can handle being a black, disabled, one armed, drug-addicted Jewish homosexual,” the email says, “but please, oh dear God, don’t make me a Democrat”.
he's a minority because blacks are a minority in this country. As are All the other minorities listed in the joke. And the joke is that he's ok with being all those things, just not the democrat. Who are we supposed to be offended over the one armed black/Jewish homosexual drug addicts? how big is that demographic?
jacksonjay: "Did they ever get to the bottom of the fake Lisa Jackson e-mail names?
Did Lisa Lehner use fake e-mail names?"
There are so many instances of the obama-ites fighting tooth and nail to not reveal legally discoverable federal communications as well as purposely using outside email systems for correspondence related to their official duties (all to hide the discussions, of course a la East Anglia CRU) it's amazing.
Michael ,
Actually it was a store bought router to use for non-govt. addresses like gmail or aol accounts. It was not a server, it was not, as Garage refers to it, an "illegal computer network."
And you're basing that on what, because I've seen two references to something more elaborate.
Ignorance is Bliss,
Crack-
I've read enough of your comments to know that you would not have a problem with investigating the President. However, with the amount of racism you've proudly displayed over the last few days, I certainly can't blame someone for assuming otherwise. Not based on your race. Based on your racism.
See, this is weird, because it implies you can read. And that you've been reading what I've written on this thread.
And yet - only to accuse ME of racism - you glided right by this open and unadorned statement:
"Attitudes like yours convinced this Republican [Obama] was right about the racial situation in this country"
Why did you glide by that in order to accuse me? Because it has to be eliminated. Because without it, the fault is all mine.
With it - the fault is all yours.
There it is - who's the racists again?
400 years of American history says you,...
> Am I invited - even to watch?
Why should you be invited? Said invitation would be be voluntary and Crack has said that whites don't get credit for any voluntary act on behalf of blacks.
Remember, Crack said that whites don't get credit for the price that their ancestors paid to end slavery because said ancestors volunteered. (Some did, some didn't, but I'll let Crack decide whether that actually matters.) The context was that all blacks today are owed because some blacks have ancestors that were slaves.
Just doing a quick Google, I'm seeing nemerous articles referencing "wireless router."
"
The guy who inferred the race man wouldn't be willing to go after the black president's administration, that's whom."
Actually, I made that assumption based on my perception of you as a Democrat and an Obama supporter, and if I was wrong in making that assumption, I apologize.
However, "the race man wouldn't be willing to go after the black president's administration" is your inference, not mine.
It's the policies, the disregard for the law, the hypocrisy, not the skin color.
All the best, even if you ARE a squid.
"No? You won't consider that, as a white man in America, as you single out a black man - two black men - for criticism? Really? But you're doing your part to heal the wounds of 400 years of white bullshit, right?
Riiiight."
Crack, I actually haven't figured out if you are posting parody. Your response suggests that you actually mean this stuff. If so, it indicates the thing I was worried about.
It's actually kind of confused as if you can't figure it out yourself.
Drago,
Crack has clearly given up on the idea that he can drive traffic to his site and has decided to take up residence here.
Message to the rest of you:
When a racist white man tells you what's going on in my mind, you'd probably best assume the opposite.
That's what my whole campaign is about, isn't it?
Opposing him?
Another thread down the Crack hole.
No? You won't consider that, as a white man in America, as you single out a black man - two black men - for criticism? Really? But you're doing your part to heal the wounds of 400 years of white bullshit, right?
Uh huh. Since racism as you practice it is wholey a political constuct and has little to do with ethnicity.
You need to talk to the people over here.
http://proteinwisdom.com/
I don't know if this is Crack Emcee's point, but the nature of these emails changes the subject from what Governor Walker is trying to acheive through policy into a discussion about what his staffers are doing with taxpayer resources.
The Governor won't excuse a waste of $500,000 on a failing government program. He shouldn't excuse the wasting of any resources by his own staff. In fact, his chief of staff should be getting rid of these liabilities and fast.
You cannot provide fuel to your opponents to stand still if you are actively trying to get them to move where you want them to go.
jr565 said...
The emails Crack posted are not in fact racial though. They are indictments of democrats.
WOW - two white people on one thread willingly avoided something to distract from the truth.
First, Ignorance is Bliss avoided quoting my statement it was white racism that's inspired me, and now you're avoiding the second paragraph of my first post here. You had to have seen it - it's the very first post!
But you only mention the first paragraph and scream "Democrats" - why? Here's why:
"welfare recipients were “mixed in color, unemployed, lazy, can’t speak English and have no frigging clue who the r [sic] Daddys [sic] are”. “That is hilarious,” Walker’s deputy chief of staff replied. “And so true!”"
That doesn't say "Democrats" that says racism.
And so does avoiding it.
I think it was more that any publicity about Shirley Sherrod would be likely to attract attention to Pigford II, which the Dept. of Ag. is proceeding with as ordered by the politicians while knowing full well it is a totally criminal enterprise.
And, weren't Sherrod and her husband lead plaintiffs, and already collected in Pigford? I would think that continued employment in an agency that had given her family hundreds of thousands of dollars would appear to be a possible conflict of interest.
Brennan - agreed.
Andy Freeman,
Why should you be invited? Said invitation would be be voluntary and Crack has said that whites don't get credit for any voluntary act on behalf of blacks.
God, you know, if whites didn't take this shit so personally, they'd be less likely to lie and deceive as they try to defend themselves. I don't even know why you try and defend yourselves - 400 years of culture is a long time to try and change. You're not going to do it overnight, you guys.
The Crack Emcee said...
Why did you glide by that in order to accuse me?
Because your display of racism was the only part that was relevant to why someone would think you would support a black President.
Because without it, the fault is all mine.
Your racism is your fault. If I were a racist, my racism would be mine. If other people of my race are racists, that is their fault.
There it is - who's the racists again?
You. Glad we cleared that up.
400 years of American history says you,...
Odd, since I've only been around for the last 46. You must have me confused with someone else.
Look:
Here's a woman, guilty as sin, she can't avoid it and she's not trying.
You guys should try and learn a few things from her.
Oh noez not jokes!
Hey, the emails are public, so they can have at them.
They will turn up ordinary, un-PC things I am sure. There will be much one sided, faux moralizing and Communist inspired calls for self-denouncements and purges by the anti-Walker true believers. Which is to be expected, along with the usual civility bullshit.
Crack, would you mind repeating everything you said after "Message to the rest of you:"?
All I heard was "Cheeseburger".
Ignorance is Bliss,
"Your display of racism was the only part that was relevant to why someone would think you would support a black President."
This is what's funny. This is what's wrong with you. Your own racism isn't relevant, or are you just giving yourself a pass because, as a white person, you have the power to ignore what the black person is saying about you?
How many people, over the last few days, have spoken of me being banned? 3-4? Could grow into a mob.
If I'm right, though, how big will my group get?
It'll always stay just me.
You guys miss everything,...
It could be called CrackHouse. A cutting-edge synthesis of ghetto paranoia and legalistic pedantry.
The Crack Emcee said...
Look:
"Here's a woman, guilty as sin, she can't avoid it and she's not trying.
You guys should try and learn a few things from her."
I'm not sure what Crack thinks white people are supposed to learn. If his point is that white people living today are guilty because of things which someone else did, then no thank-you. Terrible idea. That approach is not one which will lead to racial reconciliation or constructive engagement between the races.
"What are you defending and why?"
I haven't decided but I'm leaning toward:
1. The free speech of the people.
2. Qualified protection for private conversations, in which people speak with greater frankness and freedom than they would use before a general audience.
3. The sophistication of readers of private information that becomes public, so that we give a sensible weight to what we are reading and some leeway to the casualness of private speech.
4. Less aggression attacking political enemies over every little thing.
5. Less complicated and inhibiting rules about what you can say where when engaging in political activity, so that it's not so hard and so risky to engage in active politics.
SGT Ted,
They will turn up ordinary, un-PC things I am sure.
You know what I think is funny?
You think everybody thinks this way or even behaves this way at work,….
Crack: "You guys miss everything,.."
I certainly miss the easy access to superior barbecue since I left Texas some years back.
Is that what you mean?
"garage mahal said...
If people around you are forwarding you racist email maybe you should reconsider who you surround yourself with? And there is this:
Documents released this week show that Gov. Scott Walker told one of his closest advisers "Don't hold back" after she forwarded an anti-Mexican screed to top members of his political inner circle in July of 2010. Link."
You're going to run out of socks.
I'm wondering how we're supposed to judge the offensiveness of jokes from a a paraphrase ("One . . . is a joke about"). An honest person would have provided the actual text of the jokes mentioned in the first comment. (Perhaps Crack did so in his link - I've have to visit his site to find out, and I've done that before, so no thanks.)
I'm also wondering why Crack can't be bothered to put quotation marks around the parts of his comments that are quoted from others. It takes very little effort, and not doing so makes me even more likely to skip over them. It's hard enough to tell what he's trying to say in his own words, even after I figure out which ones are his.
"Here's a woman, guilty as sin, she can't avoid it and she's not trying."
Wait, her family, hundreds of years ago, were slave traders, and SHE is guilty? And all of us northern european descendants carry the same guilt? I can no longer take you seriously.
Ann Althouse said...
"What are you defending and why?"
I haven't decided but I'm leaning toward,…
Why can't you just start with slavery and ask yourself where it fits?
Whether saying that welfare recipients are "mixed in color" is racist depends on what the writer meant.
It could mean all welfacre recipients are what used to be called mulattos.
Or it could mean that welfare recipients come in all colors - that there are plenty of whites and Asians on welfare as well as blacks and Hispanics.
So which did the e-mailer mean? It's hard to tell, but I lean towards (b) because it happens to be true, while (a) is obviously false. If the e-mailer meant (b), that part of the statement is not in fact racist.
If the worst jokes found so far included one that may or may not be racist, depending on how you read an ambiguous phrase, that's just another sign that the whole scandal is a big zero.
Or a big 0.000037, if you want to insist that two mildly offensive jokes are more than nothing.
Having worked for a large Government agency with an official email account, I base my thoughts about what will be found based on my personal experience of what random unofficial emails I got throughout my career. Plus, I know how people are.
I never partook, because I knew that trouble could be had and it wasn't worth it.
Of course, not everybody does it. But I don't doubt that some people do and have in WI Government, at all levels.
The naïve one is you in thinking that the human beings in Government are different than everybody else. Or that some sort of super professionalism drives the culture of government workers. I hate to break it to you, but that's not how it actually is.
> God, you know, if whites didn't take this shit so personally,
We take it personally because you attack us personally.
You want stuff from me because of something that someone you associate with me did to someone who you associate with you. When I point out that the folks actually associated with me did something different, you respond that they volunteered, so it doesn't count. If voluntary doesn't count....
> they'd be less likely to lie and deceive as they try to defend themselves.
I'll bite. What lie have I told?
It's not news that a white person has lied, just as it's not news that some black person has lied, yet Crack only mentions the lies by whites.
If you threw a bucket of water on George Soros, would this happen?
(Margaret Hamilton was a white actress skillfully portraying a woman of color.)
Illuninati,
I'm not sure what Crack thinks white people are supposed to learn. If his point is that white people living today are guilty because of things which someone else did, then no thank-you.
No, I've been telling you you're racists now. Going back to your ancestors confirms where it comes from.
The enslavers were in the South. The slave traders were in the North. So were the manufacturers for the cotton the South produced. Ship builders, the people who made the slaves clothes, the chains - are you positive your family wasn't in there somewhere because the list of slave profiteers is pretty long,...
RecChief,
"Wait, her family, hundreds of years ago, were slave traders, and SHE is guilty? And all of us northern european descendants carry the same guilt? I can no longer take you seriously."
I love how racism works:
Somehow, I've lost credibility with this white man after he admits he doesn't understand something.
I am so sorry you're too stupid to ask for an explanation,...
The Crack Emcee said...
This is what's funny. This is what's wrong with you. Your own racism isn't relevant...
Could you point out any way in which my racism ( if I had any ) is in any way relevant to how someone would perceive your support of the president?
...or are you just giving yourself a pass because, as a white person, you have the power to ignore what the black person is saying about you?
In case you haven't noticed, I haven't been ignoring what you have been saying about me. You've been throwing hanging fastballs and I've been knocking them out of the park. You made a false accusation about my comments, and when I've called you on it and asked you to point to such comment you couldn't. I've pointed out that you have misinterpreted the statistics on your own blog to support your argument, when they clearly undercut it.
So claiming that I ignore what you say about me is just another example of you being wrong.
SGT Ted,
"The naïve one is you in thinking that the human beings in Government are different than everybody else."
No, I was comparing whites and blacks. You know, those people who are so concerned about "giving back" while the others don't care?
Or the ones dedicated to fighting racism while the other one don't care?
Or the one who marched to make a better nation but the other one don't care?
That's what I was talking about,...
You're going to run out of socks.
Where is Desperado? The Unintimidated One. He cut and run out of Wisconsin instead of answering questions.
Governors should be defined not by just what they do and say,but who they surround themselves with. Forward!
the list of slave profiteers is pretty long,...
I wonder why Crack left off the list those who originally profitted by selling the slaves to the White slave traders in the first place?
There was a time beginning in the late 1960s where an accusation of racism really stung. Now it's about as shame-inducing as being accused of bad breath.
Why can't you just start with slavery and ask yourself where it fits?
How about...."in every culture and civilization known to man"?
What distinguishes Western European Civilization from every other is that we eventually realized it was wrong and tried to eradicate it.
Gahrie said...
the list of slave profiteers is pretty long,...
I wonder why Crack left off the list those who originally profitted by selling the slaves to the White slave traders in the first place?
They didn't write all men are created equal.
Why are you always trying to wiggle out?
And yes, that should have been hanging curve balls. Shows how much baseball I know.
Somehow, I've lost credibility with this white man after he admits he doesn't understand something.
What I got from RecChief's comment was not that he didn't understand you absolve the woman. It was that he was incredulous over the illogic.
I think you should put down the doobie and back away from the keyboard until you're reading comprehension recovers..
sure go ahead and explain how she could possibly carry guilt from what her family did generations ago.
Better yet, explain how I can have any guilt in the matter.
garage: "Governors should be defined not by just what they do and say,but who they surround themselves with."
LOL
So now it WAS appropriate to ask about Bill Ayers and Rev Wright in 2008!
Well thanks garage. Of course, that would have been much more honest of the lefties if had said that then!
Oh wait.
That's right.
You really don't mean a single thing you lecture the rest of us about.
Gahrie,
What distinguishes Western European Civilization from every other is that we eventually realized it was wrong and tried to eradicate it.
Lies. Lies told to you by whites.
What distinguishes Western European Civilization from every other is that you eventually made slavery "black" but we blacks eventually freed ourselves - with some white help.
I'd hate to be lied to like that. I mean it doesn't even pass the smell test:
Who could want slavery abolished, or do more to abolish it, than the slave?
No white man was making runs back into slave holding territory like Harriet Tubman,...
garage: "He cut and run out of Wisconsin instead of answering questions."
So, now the flee-baggers were WRONG to have cut and run out of Wisconsin!
Again, it would have been nice if the left had said that then.
Oh, that's right.
Fen's Law, again.
The Crack Emcee said...
Or the ones dedicated to fighting racism while the other one don't care?
I don't think you should get credit for fighting racism while you actively promote racism in your own race.
RecChief said...
sure go ahead and explain how she could possibly carry guilt from what her family did generations ago.
Better yet, explain how I can have any guilt in the matter.
I said check with her - she's white - she'll have the "credibility" you seek,...
I'm just glad to see that garage is back on board the "outside rich guys using their money for political purposes inside Wisconsin" bandwagon again!!
Gee, it's almost like all of garage's complaints about outside money, influence and rich guys was all BS.
Fen's Law.
I think my list of items deserved to be taken a lot more seriously, Crack, but next time you ask a question I will assume it's rhetorical.
Crack,
you seem to have an opinion, yours is just as good as hers. Feel free to enlighten me. I'm all ears.
Crack: "No white man was making runs back into slave holding territory like Harriet Tubman,..."
Hilariously false.
Unless crack means no white MAN was walking like Harriet Tubman.
That's probably correct.
But into slaveholding territory and out again?
Absolutely.
Hey, can we talk about the humanity and rich historical perspective of Idi Amin eating members of his cabinet and as well as at least one of his wives?
You know.
Just. Like. Crack. Would. Like. To.
No white man was making runs back into slave holding territory like Harriet Tubman,...
John Brown
Garage: If people around you are forwarding you racist email maybe you should reconsider who you surround yourself with?
Prosecutor: You were a frequent participant at a blog named Althouse?
Garage: Yes
Prosecutor: And you routinely came across racist remarks by a one Crack Emcee? Including threats made by him to kill white people?
Garage: uh Yes
Prosecutor: And despite this, you continued to associate yourself with that blog and by extension, Crack Emcee, despite the overt racism there?
Garage: [...]
Garage: Yes
are you positive your family wasn't in there somewhere because the list of slave profiteers is pretty long
Crack, your own ancestors are in there as slave profiteers.
You should go flail yourself.
Then demand reparations from yourself.
What distinguishes Western European Civilization from every other is that we eventually realized it was wrong and tried to eradicate it.
Ah. The part Crack streadfastly refuses to acknowledge.
Rent seeking.
Crack is late to the game. Jackson and Sharpton et al have raked in the easy money.
No, I was comparing whites and blacks. You know, those people who are so concerned about "giving back" while the others don't care?
I've been given help and I've given back.
I've signed a blank check out to the nation with "Up To And Including my Life If Necessary" in the pay line and did it for 26 years.
What have you done?
Ann Althouse,
"I think my list of items deserved to be taken a lot more seriously, Crack, but next time you ask a question I will assume it's rhetorical."
Oh, don't be that way, you're right - it's your blog:
1. The free speech of the people.
No one's stopping them from talking. We know who they are now.
2. Qualified protection for private conversations, in which people speak with greater frankness and freedom than they would use before a general audience.
Protecting racists. Come on, you know the poverty in your state - these clowns are NOT helping and deserve no protection from us knowing why.
3. The sophistication of readers of private information that becomes public, so that we give a sensible weight to what we are reading and some leeway to the casualness of private speech.
Like the French, white Americans are so sophisticated, they keep losing the context of slavery in the post-modern.
4. Less aggression attacking political enemies over every little thing.
Slavery in this country is NOT a little thing.
5. Less complicated and inhibiting rules about what you can say where when engaging in political activity, so that it's not so hard and so risky to engage in active politics.
Except for slavery, I don't know why whites can't talk, in private or otherwise, without being racist.
Blacks actually give a damn about y'all,...
Ann,
What these emails are is evidence of White Supremacy. It's white people, in power, seeing everyone else as the "other" - just as that judge in California was recently exposed as doing.
Again - I have no idea why anybody fights about this when it's been a documented fact of American life for 400 years.
Until you quit thinking of yourself as some sort of victim, your problems will never be solved.
So, now the flee-baggers were WRONG to have cut and run out of Wisconsin!
It's becoming clearer with each passing day that leaving the state was the right thing to do.
It's not a *white* thing.
It's a *HUMAN* thing.
You make the same mistake the white racists make; to attribute evil, common HUMAN behavior on superficial characteristics such as skin color, instead of acknowledging that we are ALL fallen.
Blacks actually give a damn about y'all,...
And the vast majority of whites, including myself, care about blacks. Which is why I wish you would stop this. If you encourage blacks to agree with your racism, if you convince whites that other blacks are as racist as you, then you will have done blacks far more harm then the vast majority of whites, alive now or in the future, ever will.
> Blacks actually give a damn about y'all,...
What form dos this "give a damn" take? Is it
Blacks actually give a damn about y'all,...
> What distinguishes Western European Civilization from every other is that you eventually made slavery "black" but we blacks eventually freed ourselves - with some white help.
"blacks eventually freed ourselves" doesn't even pass the giggle test. There are individual British warships that did more than blacks collectively did to end slavery.
As far as "black slavery" goes, it's still being practiced in some black countries.
Today's question is "we've spent lots of blood, we've spent lots of money, why should we spend anything more?"
Hint "you're racist" isn't an answer.
""welfare recipients were “mixed in color, unemployed, lazy, can’t speak English and have no frigging clue who the r [sic] Daddys [sic] are”. “That is hilarious,” Walker’s deputy chief of staff replied. “And so true!”
Mixed in color suggest more than one race. Cant speak English refers to people who aren't normalized citizens I'd imagine. And don't know who their daddy is could be talking about illegitimacy or they don't realize the their daddy is big govt.
If we looked at who was on welfare I'd imagine it would include a lot of the groups so referenced. I think he was describing a group made up of various groups not saying that every member of the group shared all the characteristics. If you add the word AND or OR after each comma you'd get a better idea of what he was saying.
Was it Inartful and insensitive? Probably.
Crack is correct to caterwaul, Raffi Williams proves Crack's way of thinking is in-the-last-stages dodo-like.
Raffi is the young overtaking Crack's old. Nature. D. Corleone.
That being said the emails were in bad taste at first glance. Not showing racism but ignorance of how winners win big time without help like Democrats get from friendlies with powerful bandwidths.
I am not able to do what Walker nor his aides do so I give them credit for trying but insist they try harder and smarter when it comes to knowing how spinmeisters spin and a stupid public laps it up.
NBC will edit whatever they need to without help from GOP aides. I understand that Walker et. al. will get attacked as being racist no matter what they say however that doesn't mean they never make bone-headed misstatements and/or the occasional written glitch.
*Whew*
I thought you said Koch.
Since you said Soros, this is obviously good, clean, and pure as the wind-driven snow.
If the Kochs had done it --- totally political BS.
If your chief of staff answers it with “And so true!”?
And the racism is...where? A black man who can handle handicap but doesn't want to be a
Democrat isn't quite Amos'n'Andy level stuff here.
Professor, you're going to have to ban Crack, because he's ruining your comments section. He needs to be put in the same category as Ritmo and Mary.
Ann Althouse said...
I think my list of items deserved to be taken a lot more seriously,
He doesn't take anyone else's comments seriously, why should they engage his? Especially when his racism accusations are only to get the attention he no longer gets for attacking cults.
Don't ban Crack. The hanging curve balls are good batting practice.
Crack gets a pass. The normal rules don't apply because he's black.
SGT Ted said...
Until you quit thinking of yourself as some sort of victim, your problems will never be solved.
And until you get off the standard conservative boilerplate, we'll never get anywhere because - in case you haven't noticed - nobody's buying it.
Victim? Please.
Do bad things happen to me and mine, because we're surrounded by you and yours, and you're unreasonable? Yes.
But, but, BUT - we've survived you. We're the cockroaches in your tinsletown, but we not only make do, we flourish at every opportunity, flowers growing out of concrete.
Victims? We started so low in this country, the idea that you consider a homeless black person to be really out of luck is laughable - you're using the wrong yardstick, my friend. That man is supposed to be strung up in the town square, are you out of your mind? He should be tied up, covered in honey, and made to sit on an anthill. And you think someone who CAN'T have that done to him anymore - at will - is going to accept your "victim" label?
No, he's kicked your ass. We feel like Ali. We talk like Ali. We hit like Ali.
But you see a victim.
That's how racism works. Grown men used to be "boy". Who said so? Guys like you.
Isn't it fascinating how you think you define these things? Including how I can attain my freedom from you?
That's white supremacy. Nothing else can be right but what you, the white man, says it is. If I say I need "this" I only get it if you agree - fuck the word "need". And so black dreams are allowed to die on the vine because you didn't see the "need".
You're really too smart to be this stupid, sarge,...
John Brown
For the win.
Birches said...
John Brown
For the win.
You're god damned right.
Who gets to decide the standard? More, who gets to decide *who* sets standard? I think is part of what Emcee is trying to get at (apart from what he's already said about his choice of tactics).
The only racism I've seen so far is some jokes in the e-mails and Crack calling white people racist because they're white and making racist comments about white people in general because, uh, well, things they never did were bad and other people with the same skin color did them, so, uh, you're racist if you have that same skin color.
It's hilarious because Crack engenders more racism than even exists in his own heart - which is quite a bit - and he's too stupid to figure it out. Why anyone thinks Crack is intelligent has always been a mystery. He's a bad troll. A good troll wouldn't need the aggressive-aggressiveness to troll successfully. Crack is too unskilled to troll right, it's very sad...
rcommal-
The standard for what?
Who gets to decide the standard? Not white people, and presumably not black people or people of other "races" that are not sufficiently racist to meet Crack's standards. Remember, the point is to be as racist as possible while calling others racist, because in Crack's stunted, racist mind that is the surefire way to get attention.
the only thing I see is that Crack apparently believes racism by whites (not by anyone else) is carried genetically, or maybe spiritually like the concept of original sin. Is that it? If so, please educate me on what your solution is. What act would grant us absolution?
Yep. Thos sound like stupid things for people on Walker's staff to have said.
Ann Althouse said...
@Crack
So anybody forwards you some bullshit thing and it counts against you?
That's really scary.
I have people who forward me crap they presumably think is funny, but what the hell am I supposed to do?
I don't think you would comment "hilarious . . . and so true."
That's the problem.
Fine, Crack.
You win.
I'm a racist. Many of my ancestors owned slaves, a fact of which I'm entirely not ashamed of. I'm descended from Randolphs, Custis's, Lees and other great Virginians. They fought in our wars. In fact, some of my ancestors were slaughtered by Nat Turner in Southampton County, Virginia. And I'm sure even more saw him hanged, along with his other rebels. One of them wrote a letter about witnessing the hanging of John Brown. Words like "scoundrel" and "traitor" were used.
And this is just on my mother's side of the family!
So, yeah. I'm a racist, Crack.
So fucking what? You hold that word up in front of you like a crucifix, and you've used it to the point of it being meaningless to me and a whole lot of other people.
I'm RACIST! I'm going to revel in that word from now on, Crack. I'm going to bath in it, luxuriating in the horrors my ancestors loosed upon the World! I'm going to live the rest of my short life being happy that you're miserable that racists are oppressing you and your people. Why should I feel shame at being taunted with such a meaningless word? Being called a commie pinko fag would would have far more shame attached to it than racist at this point.
And I'm not going to change. I'm not going to give a solid copper penny for reparations. I'm going to stop the charitable giving. After all, I'm a racist! Why would anyone want money from a racist? Screw it. I like things the way they are! I'm not gonna give you shit!. You haven't earned it. News Flash: Your ancestors were enslaved because they allowed themselves to be enslaved. They couldn't hack it. They didn't keep up with the rest of the world, Sparky. Your ancestors were the weakest link, and everyone else figured that out real quick. In a world where slavery was the norm, what the fuck did your ancestors expect?
Hey! Everyone! I'm a racist! WOOHOO!!!
I just don't give a fuck anymore. Black man calls me racist, I'm going to reply, "So? What the fuck is it to you?"
Alrighty then, Crack! I'm racist. So? What the fuck is it to you?
And how long do you think it's going to take before other scary white people start getting wise to your shakedown?
At what point should someone cease being angry about a past wrong of monumental proportions?
Is it time for the Jews to eradicate their anger over the Holocaust? When should the Native Americans cease expressing anger over what they suffered or the slaughters their people endured? Should the Kurds and Armenians now embrace the Turks and dispense with embarrassing discussion of the murder and starvation they endured? How should the Koreans view the Japanese, who exploited and degraded their women during the war? How should my wife's family view the Japanese, who imprisoned her father for four years and nearly killed him through overwork and starvation? Is it ok to still be upset about Pearl Harbor? Nagasaki? The death of 90% of the German prisoners who fell into the hands of the Russians? The treaty granting Palestine to the Jews?
Does the appropriateness of expressing anger over these things depend on context? Does it matter if the evil has been ongoing, in the same or altered form? Does it depend on time and place? Does it matter whether you are a guest in someone's home or having a debate in a coffee shop or bar? Does it matter how much your own family personally suffered or how sensitive you might be to the injustice and suffering? Does an apology make a difference? Recognition of the injustice?
Finally, if someone is angry about something, and the anger is not just irrational, do you want to have a relationship with that person? No one particularly likes to be the recipient of anger, but if that is so, how much right to complain do you have if you do things you know will incite that anger.
Crack is pissed about the raw deal black people have gotten in this country. We all get that. But most white people, even (especially?) the lefty Right On Bro types, don't like being told that we personally have some responsibility for this. We didn't own slaves. We didn't write or enforce segregation laws. We sure as hell didn't lynch anyone. So why pick on us?
But why defend the indefensible, just to argue with him? The joke Nardelli sent to Rindfleisch is insulting. It's also stupid. People at their level should know better. "No more race jokes, please" would have been a good response to Nardelli.
Rindfleisch's "hilarious . . . so true" response is even worse. Much worse. Completely gratuitous, insulting, completely inappropriate. It makes me question their judgment on everything. (Probably pretty easy to do given their other conduct.)
Over 100 comments and very few that acknowledge the comments were foolish and mean spirited. Especially Rindfleisch's.
Does this reflect on Walker? Well, it doesn't help but I'm not prepared to say it reflects on his racial attitudes. It does tell me he had a couple of second raters in high positions.
But why did so many people jump on Crack over this?
Because he brought it up. How dare he.
Chef Mojo,
I'm RACIST!
I knew that already, remember? Now you're going bonkers when nobody's trying to guilt trip you or "shake you down" or anything else. (You'll have to explain how these things happen online, on a blog, another time.) You're like those religious people who think, if they give up God, that means they HAVE to sink into depravity. For you it's, if whites ARE guilty of white supremacy, then you might as well accept being an asshole and really crank it up.
That's what you ought to be ashamed of.
Nobody was asking you for any of that stuff,...
@Crack... You win: "Here's a woman, guilty as sin, she can't avoid it and she's not trying.
You guys should try and learn a few things from her."
My uncle's effort tracing our family back to 1575 in Berlingen, Switzerland through the arrival of my great-grandfather to the US in 1871 means nothing. The fact the he married a woman born in Norway and immigrated to the US sometime in the 1870's (records weren't clear). My grandfather was born in 1888 in Spink County, South Dakota. Family moved to Wisconsin to 'work on a farm - not their own'. My grandfather eventually worked for a utility company followed by my father. Don't get me started on the sausage-making Danes on my mother's side.
Yep. We've long been part of the slave trade and prospered mightily from it.
I humbly accept your disdain and insults thrown rightfully in my racist, slavery-prospering face.
@David:
But why did so many people jump on Crack over this?
Easy. Because Crack won't stop pimping (That's RACCCCIST!!) his reparations shakedown, let alone his website. Every thread he participates in becomes about him and race. Everything must be seen through his cracked lens of race and interpreted accordingly because racism, y'all.
Fuck. We're going easy on Crack. Because racism, wouldn't you know it.
BTW, did you know I'm a racist. That's right. I am. Crack says so.
For you it's, if whites ARE guilty of white supremacy, then you might as well accept being an asshole and really crank it up.
Why not be an asshole and really crank it up? It's what you expect from your enemy. You've proven continuously that you're an enemy to everything I hold dear, and that includes my past and my ancestry. I have every expectation of being an asshole and cranking it up when confronted by jerks like you.
And yes. You are running a shakedown. It's the whole purpose of the slander. No. "Slander" is too nice a word. What you deal in is blood libel.
That's fine, Crack. You're really winning hearts and minds here.
Chief, what Crack says does not make you a racist. It's what you say and do that counts.
Hey look, Crack managed to make a comment that didn't blame people for things other people did solely because they share the same skin color.
Forward!
New Althouse Blogspot tag; "Crack Emcee."
@David:
You know nothing about me. You can't see the 10' of floor to ceiling bookshelves absolutely crammed with books on African-American history and culture. I have a definitive academic library on the subject sitting six feet away from me as I write this. From Levine's "Black Culture and Black Consciousness" to a bootleg DVD of Marlon Riggs "Ethnic Notions" and everything in between. My wife is a former professor in African-American studies. Being a chef, one of my main areas of interest gravitates to African-American foodways. Edna Lewis was a mentor of mine. African-American military history is a particular love of mine.
I present the above so you might have the slightest fucking clue why what Crack does here with the word "racism" pisses me the fuck off.
I'm a dying man, and I don't have time to be nice to jerkoffs like Crack and his cryptic little games.
Again comes the angry negro clown act to the Althouse blog. This is a thing Althouse will not discourage because it increases the page views in the contest for the best of the law professor blogs.
The InstantPundit, he grew large by more honest means, did he not?
#2
The reason the private email system was set up was to circumvent FOI requests. If elected officials and their staff want to do campaigning and racist chit chat on their own time, that's their business. Unfortunately it was done in tax payer funded offices on tax payer funded time. Illegal and unethical.
Political self-annihilation, Mexican stand-off style:
Greg Abbott, the attorney general of Texas and favorite to be the next governor, was campaigning with Ted Nugent, the vulgar rocker who last month called the president of the United States a “communist-raised, communist-educated, communist-nurtured subhuman mongrel.” Abbott wouldn’t criticize Nugent’s abhorrent speech. “That’s just Ted,” Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) said.
Yep, that’s just Ted, referring to President Obama with the same language (“subhuman mongrels”) the Nazis used to justify exterminating Jews. After days of uproar, Perry condemned the remarks, Nugent issued a grudging apology and Abbott finally said he wouldn’t “use or endorse” such language.
Three idiots, taking each other out. One of them (Perry) even has a "Nigger rock" on his property.
But they're not racists,...
Wrong thread, Crack. The unguents thread is the next one over.
But I can see why'd you d be confused, what with all us racists being here, there and everywhere!
My stars and garters - as my racist Virginian grandmother used to say. And she was racist. No, really. Sweetest little segregationist you'd ever care to meet! - how can you stand it!
Crack wrote:
"That's white supremacy. Nothing else can be right but what you, the white man, says it is. If I say I need "this" I only get it if you agree - fuck the word "need". And so black dreams are allowed to die on the vine because you didn't see the "need"."
but I thought you were all about opening the door and getting it yourself. Therefore why should black dreams die on the vine simply because whites say so?
and do you think that blacks are the only people who have their dreams dying on the vine because society says no?
Crack wrote:
"No? You won't consider that, as a white man in America, as you single out a black man - two black men - for criticism? Really? But you're doing your part to heal the wounds of 400 years of white bullshit, right?"
Not 100% sure what crack is saying here, so if I take it out of context I apologoze.
But, why would black people be immune from being singled out, if they deserve to be singled out? Part of judging people by the content of their character and not skin color is that we get to call black people out,same as white people.
garage mahal wrote:
"Documents released this week show that Gov. Scott Walker told one of his closest advisers "Don't hold back" after she forwarded an anti-Mexican screed to top members of his political inner circle in July of 2010. Link."
Wow garage, so you even read what you post? that anti Mexican immigrant screed was calling Mexico hypocrites for its extremely tough Immigation policy while at the same time calling us racists for calling people undocumented. Are people not even allowed to question the basis of the argument if it comes from the left, lest they be branded a racist? Why can't Mexico be criticized certainly America can. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Crack Emcee wrote:
"we're surrounded by you and yours, and you're unreasonable? Yes.
But, but, BUT - we've survived you. We're the cockroaches in your tinsletown, but we not only make do, we flourish at every opportunity, flowers growing out of concrete.
Victims? We started so low in this country, the idea that you consider a homeless black person to be really out of luck is laughable - you're using the wrong yardstick, my friend. That man is supposed to be strung up in the town square, are you out of your mind? He should be tied up, covered in honey, and made to sit on an anthill. And you think someone who CAN'T have that done to him anymore - at will - is going to accept your "victim" label?
No, he's kicked your ass. We feel like Ali. We talk like Ali. We hit like Ali. "
No crack! we invited you to the table. And you're now sitting at the table. There is no fighting except by you. If you're flourishing its not because whites are keeping you down. We have a black president remember. We're not stringing homeless people up for being black. Not even in the racist south.
> One of them (Perry) even has a "Nigger rock" on his property.
Actually, Perry didn't. His family rented a place that had such a rock and they painted over it.
Perhaps Crack will tell us what Perry could have done that would have been acceptable to Crack.
It's interesting that Crack has to invent racist incidents in a world that he insists is full of racism.
Actually, it isn't.
"we invited you to the table."
What does that assume?
What does that assume?
I know exactly what that assumes because I've felt it here too.
It has nothing to do with lunch counters.
Emcee: Perry deserves a whack over his Ted Nugent opportunism. And so do you, over your "that rock" opportunism.
I'm guessing that most of what they find will be masturbation-worthy for garage mahal?
'"We own the table" has nothing to with "lunch counters"?
rcommal said...
'"We own the table" has nothing to with "lunch counters"?
That's right. It has to do with color-blind acceptance.
No mas.
David said...
No mas.
What do you mean "no mas"?
Isn't it clear that Crack has found his "new Romney" to rail against for the next couple of years?
Come on, Crack enablers, step up and join him!
This is going to to be a long 2 years. Fortunately, the mid-terms will intervene.
“I can handle being a black, disabled, one armed, drug-addicted Jewish homosexual,” the email says, “but please, oh dear God, don’t make me a Democrat”.
--- kind of like the piano player in the whorehouse joke. Not racist, politicists. BTW Democrats hate that joke.
----saying that welfare recipients are "mixed in color"
I can't imagine anybody using that phraseology as a slur. Its a clumsy way of saying diverse population. KInd of like "Rainbow Push Coalition"
-----No, I've been telling you you're racists now. Going back to your ancestors confirms where it comes from.
The enslavers were in the South. The slave traders were in the North. So ….----
What stereotyping (dare I say racist?) BS. What about those of us who's forbears came here after the civil war? Just like the occasional white racist you might encounter Crack, you are operating with a false history and false consciousness.
Come into the light of tolerance and love for your fellow man.
---slavery "black" but we blacks eventually freed ourselves - with some white help.
I wish I could help you with this terrible self-image that results in your making up history.
Three hundred thousand white union soldiers died in battle to end the Confederacy and slavery. There were black soldiers as well, heroic but a very small number.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
-----The reason the private email system was set up was to circumvent FOI requests.
The reason the private email system was set up was comply with election law separating political activity from governing activity.
Unkown, it doesn't matter, campaining ( and racist chit chat) was still done in a tax payer funded office on tax payer time. What do you not get about that? Wisconsin has strict laws regarding campaigning. You conveniently skipped that fact.
How does the "joking" of a state employee impugn Scott Walker?
All this talk about slavery. It's a trap. All these people who say their families weren't even here in those days. At least three sides of mine absolutely were not, and of the fourth it's not clear to me when they arrived and in any case that they were ever, in that era [assuming they arrived in or around it], anything other than poor and hard-scrabbling out in the Midwestern frontier.
All that said, there's not a single branch of those four sides who weren't around for the many, many decades of Jim Crow, both the version enforced by law and the version enforced by societal norm. I mean, WTF? What's the point in not just pretending, but willfully insisting, that the reality was otherwise?
It is possible to acknowledge all of that and yet not agree with any particular given, much less forced, solution of redress.
Really, it is.
Also, way earlier in this thread I noted router v. server.
There's no way to make people make distinctions.
Rcommal wrote:
'"We own the table" has nothing to with "lunch counters.?
not per se. Africans were dragged here as slaves. After much wrangling and fighting they were made full citizens with equivalent rights. The table is society, and the rights were afforded to its citizens before Africans got here. Meaning, they had to ultimately be invited to the table. It wasn't theirs to begin with. But now it is.
Rcommal wrote:
All that said, there's not a single branch of those four sides who weren't around for the many, many decades of Jim Crow, both the version enforced by law and the version enforced by societal norm. I mean, WTF? What's the point in not just pretending, but willfully insisting, that the reality was otherwise?
Jim Crow was only in the south. So what about northern whites? What about whites who only arrived in this country about the 1900's went to Ellis island and wound up in say New York. Are they guilty too.
Crack Emcee wrote:
This is what's funny. This is what's wrong with you. Your own racism isn't relevant, or are you just giving yourself a pass because, as a white person, you have the power to ignore what the black person is saying about you?
you have the right to disagree with what a black person is saying about a white person, if you're white. just as you can disagree with what a white person is saying about you as a black person.
This is like the Cindy Sheehan argument. She gets trotted out because her son is killed and sudenly we must listen to everything she says because she has absolute moral authority. But skin tone doesn't give you absolute moral authority any more than the death of her son gave her absolute moral authority.
If you start calling people racists you don't know simply based on skin tone, you are probably going to get pushback.
jr565,
I know your particular brand of solipsism well, and don't plan on honoring it further.
Cheers.
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