October 30, 2013

WaPo Fact Checker gives 4 "Pinocchios" to Obama's promise that you can keep your health care plan.

Glenn Kessler rejects the excuses and weasling:
[A]s White House spokesman Jay Carney put it: “It’s correct that substandard plans... are no longer allowed — because the Affordable Care Act is built on the premise that health care is not a privilege, it’s a right, and there should be minimum standards for the plans available to Americans across the country.”

But such assertions do not really explain the president’s promise — or Jarrett’s tweet ["FACT: Nothing in #Obamacare forces people out of their health plans. No change is required unless insurance companies change existing plans."]. There may be a certain percentage of people who were happy with their “substandard” plan, presumably because it cost relatively little....

The president’s statements were sweeping and unequivocal — and made both before and after the bill became law. The White House now cites technicalities to avoid admitting that he went too far in his repeated pledge, which, after all, is one of the most famous statements of his presidency.

160 comments:

Jason said...

Where was Kessler in 2009 / 2010?

We don't need "fact-checkers" now that the truth is blindingly obvious. That's like paying a fire alarm company to notify the Fire Department after they've put out the fire already!

augustus said...

What difference, at this point, does it make?

Strelnikov said...

Gee, it's nice of WaPo to notice this. Now, not when it mattered.

augustus said...

I'm not interested in anything such people have to say unless it includes some retrospective acknowledgement of their role in this debacle, and the abuse they heaped onto people who were ultimately correct.

Hagar said...

He was lying then, and he is lying now.

rhhardin said...

They could have added that everything Obama says is a lie.

Dave Schumann said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
madAsHell said...

Health care is a right??

This kind of thinking is fraught with unexpected consequences.

Michael K said...

The party line is "substandard plan." We will hear that from now on. No maternity benefits for a 60 year old man ? Substandard.

I don't think it will fly with the most dull of the LIV.

jacksonjay said...

Whatever!

jacksonjay said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chuck said...

he went too far

Well, isn't that nice, he was the little engine that could. Pinocchio got the nose for lying, why can't Kessler use the proper word? Is that not the key to good writing?

Archie said...

Lying sack.

Oso Negro said...

But lying seems so acceptable to Democratic voters. Wasn't someone even calling lately for the kind of honesty that Clintons bring?

Scott M said...

The talking point is going to be "only 5% of the people" etc, etc. This should be troubling for a supporter of the administration. It sets the bar pretty low. 5% is, what, roughly 15 million people?

For instance, why not enact sweeping deportations of illegals? Maybe not all of them. Just 15 million of them.

On the other hand, how many percentage points of the American population do same-sex marriage laws actually affect?

Etc, etc.

Unknown said...

To paraphrase Smarmey, my satellite provider won't allow any individual channel choice programs because _ _ _!
Thank G-d I'm on Medicare and my Dr. won't be retiring until I'm ashes.
BTW, he's an Obama supporting Lefty, while practicing the whole abandoned "country doctor" scenario.

Tom said...

It worked on stupid people. That's why it shouldn't be delayed -- even if the website isn't working. The law says there's a penalty next year and that needs to hold. America voted for this and reelected this mess. We own it. Unless we feel the pain of our collective poor decision, we've demonstrated we won't learn. Why rob people of the wisdom that will be borne from this experience? Isn't this entire mess due to some people thinking they know what's best for everyone else and a large of group of people willing to outsource their thinking to these do-gooders? Well, if we didn't want to think before, now we're forced to think of how we're going to pay for this mess. And that's hopefully going to cause some significant paradigm shifts.

David53 said...

Read my lips........

Freeman Hunt said...

My "substandard" plan that's being eliminated is a "Gold" plan. Lies, lies, and more lies.

jr565 said...

I'd give him 4 pinocchios for each Obamacare lie. So at the end of the day that would be about 100 pinocchios on a scale of 4.

roger said...

"Why rob people of the wisdom that will be borne from this experience?"

I understand what you are saying here. But I work at the Food Stamp office. The type of people who could really stand to gain wisdom from this extraordinary debacle will never learn. It is a fruitless pursuit.

Best regards.

eric said...

If only we had a real news media in the United States with real journalists, instead of Democrats with bylines (As Instapundit likes to call them) someone may have asked Obama in 2009, or in 2010, or in 2011, or in 2012, "How can you keep telling people they will get to keep their plan if they like it, when clearly they won't be able to?"

El Pollo Raylan said...

I'm getting a "page no longer available" message from WaPo on that link, Althouse.

Anybody else?

Maybe that caught an error?

Paco Wové said...

No kidding. NPR had some grovelling cocksucker named Jonathan Gruber on today, doing the "well, they weren't good plans, so it doesn't matter that they were eliminated" dance. Could not stop shouting obscenities at the car radio.

Paco Wové said...

Just want to emphasize:

MIT's Jonathan Gruber = grovelling cocksucker.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Most brilliant talking point since Marie Antoinette pointed out that bread is just substandard cake.

Paco Wové said...

The WaPo appears to be trying to memory-hole this one, but for the moment at least you can get to it at:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDAQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fblogs%2Ffact-checker%2Fwp%2F2013%2F10%2F30%2Fobamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan%2F&ei=aadxUur3HOG9yAGZu4CYAw&usg=AFQjCNG-_y_TnE8nMAVeWdG4VVVin1RKrA&sig2=E6p4rJPBFU3UPzmm9LMU2w&bvm=bv.55617003,d.aWc&cad=rja

Bob Loblaw said...

It was always a lie. They wanted to force the self-insured people onto the exchanges so they didn't have to rely on healthy young'uns, many of whom are unemployed and living with their parents.

I bet many self-insured people are small business owners. This is a demographic voting bloc that probably skews more Republican, so Democrats are happy to stick it to them as much as possible.

I hate this administration.

Bob Loblaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Biff said...

I had been skeptical of the press for a long time, but their failure in 09, etc. to question such an obvious, repeated lies as the "if you like your coverage/doctor" bullshit or the "average family will pay $2500 less for insurance" crap pushed me from skepticism to contempt.

Seriously - anyone with basic math and a little curiosity could have seen that these were lies back then. Similarly, Sibelius made a remark in her testimony today that was along the lines of "no one could have predicted the problems that have arisen." (I'm paraphrasing from memory.) Nonsense! Lots of people predicted the failure of the Obamacare website, but all warnings and criticisms were dismissed as being politically motivated, even when they were expressed in purely technical terms.

Dammit. I never thought I'd become someone who yells at the TV set.

jacksonjay said...

Frank Sinatra Farrow said that Americans are looking for honest, believable leaders like the Clintons! You really can't make this stuff up!

Rick said...

What's with this "went too far"? Obama is a liar. What is so hard about admitting that?

Illuninati said...

As I understand the situation this lie is much worse than most lies. It appears that Obama has latitude under the law to grandfather in all existing plans but is deliberately setting the standards so that most private plans will be lost. This is premeditated malevolence.

Glen Filthie said...

LOL.

You were warned, America...you were warned.

I hope it hurts, quite frankly.

Original Mike said...

To think he didn't know is to think he's stupid. I don't think he's stupid. Ergo, he lied.

It's really pretty simple.

Hagar said...

I wonder if Obama's problem fits a defintion of some pathology.
He was still going on in the same vein in Boston today. Is there something in him that makes what he is saying the truth for him regardless of all evidence - and as well known to him as to the rest of us - to the contrary?
If so he is going to take the Democratic Party down to its biggest dunking since the 1860's.

augustus said...

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Kelly said...

My sister, fool that she is, was happy with her substandard plan. The closest policy to her old one raises her deductible from 5000 to 12,500 and she gets to pay thousands more!

She's such an ingrate that she's angry about it. I think someone from the government needs to have a talk with her.

n.n said...

Neither health care nor medical insurance are a right. Both are provided through the voluntary or involuntary exploitation of other people. Characterizing health care or more correctly medical insurance as a right grossly mischaracterizes its nature.

As for affordability and availability, it's medical insurance, not health care. The two concepts are not equivalent in theory and certainly not in practice.

Obamacare is Medicaid on steroids, presumably to compensate for economic policies which have depressed real wages and opportunity. Obamacare sponsors progressive corruption, when people wait for a "preexisting condition" to participate in an insurance pool. In addition to ignoring the progressive inflation underlying medical care services and products, Obamacare will necessarily increase premiums and deductibles because of those two classes.

That said, it is not viable; it is a burden; dismember it; vacuum it; flush it. We need Planned Government because neither Obama, Reid, Pelosi et al are prepared to accept responsibility for the clump of policies and regulations known as Obamacare, and the web pages and scripts constituting healthcare.gov.

Hagar said...

You should have heard - and seen - Juan Williams flail around with this on Fox News with Bret Baier tonight - not to mention the expression on the other panel members' faces.

That it was - and is - not a lie because it only is a lie to 5% of the population, or, it is not a lie because the cancellations were made later by the insurance companies (as required by my law, but shut up!) is something that even Bill Clinton would not try to work his magic on, but that seems to be the only line the Administration has given out so far.

Elliott A said...

What is truly amazing is that at that bastion of conservatism (sarc) Huffpo, the comments look exactly like these. I have never seen that before.

William said...

It's ok to lie about sex, health care, and prior service as a Soviet spy. People who understand the nuances of civilization tell tactful lies about these subjects all the time. I don't understand what's the big deal here.

Big Mike said...

Looks like Glenn Kessler found himself trapped. Any fewer than four Pinocchios would leave him looking like a fool.

I see that today in Boston Obama said that healthcare should be a no-brainer. That should get another three or four Pinocchios from Kessler, but it does suggest a reason for the magnitude of the debacle -- they assigned people without brains to build it.

Hagar said...

Also, this is only the first wave. Sometime between now and Groundhog Day the AHCA is going to work its way through the various corporate bureaucracies, and their plans are going to drop all over the place. It is going to be a lot more than 5% of the people that will be affected by this!

El Pollo Raylan said...

Elliott A said...
What is truly amazing is that at that bastion of conservatism (sarc) Huffpo, the comments look exactly like these. I have never seen that before.

So where do left-thinkers like Inga go to find agreement? Facebook?

Is Facebook still a seething bed of Tea Party animus?

pm317 said...

Haha..Page Not Found!

VJ spanked them silly and they cowered and hid the article. Just like what NBC did to Lisa Myers story yesterday.

El Pollo Raylan said...

VJ spanked them silly and they cowered and hid the article. Just like what NBC did to Lisa Myers story yesterday.

Interesting if true.

pm317 said...

Video: White House intimidating insurers into staying quiet on the ObamaCare debacle?

Tank said...

Breaking news !!!

Zero is a liar.

Duh.

Pathetic.

Con man. Con man ...

Henry said...

Pinnochios is a stupid unit. How about four Iagos. Or three witches and Hecate as a bonus:

...be these juggling fiends no more believed,
That palter with us in a double sense;
That keep the word of promise to our ear,
And break it to our hope.

Original Mike said...

The engineers of ObamaCare needed people to lose their health insurance, so they had to migrate to the exchanges. The economics of their plan requires it. The lie was told with this goal in mind.

These people are real fuckers.

Original Mike said...

"Where was Kessler in 2009 / 2010?"

The Wall Street Journal editorial page has been on this from the beginning.

Big Mike said...

There may be a certain percentage of people who were happy with their “substandard” plan, presumably because it cost relatively little...

Also, Mr. Kessler, because they chose plans that didn't make them pay for services they don't need -- like single men or post-menopausal women paying for maternity care. That sort of stuff.

Mark said...

The correct URL:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/

Works for me anyway. Still might disappear in the night.

Mark said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica

Paco Wové said...

"Democrats are happy to stick it to them as much as possible."

This, as they say. Heard a pair of interviews this afternoon. One, white, male, middle-aged small business owner (farmer) = premiums doubled, deductible doubled. The other, young, female, worker for non-profit = premiums reduced, deductible not mentioned. The Dems know who their people are, and who aren't. If you're not one of them? Well, fuck you - they won, remember?

Drago said...

Simply noticing that obama has been lying about this from the beginning is racist.

And ugly.

And likely to drive AA into Hillary's arms in 2016...you know...so the dems will "own" it...or something.

pm317 said...

@Mark.. yes, the link is working and the article is still there.

It is Althouse's fault. But I am not going to apologize to the woman, VJ about what I said.

there is a typo in Althouse's link (see below), a single quote at the end that is screwing up things -- may be Althouse didn't want us to find that article, subconsciously, you know, as in protecting Obama.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/'

Paddy O said...

Our plan was one of the ones that got cancelled.

Fortunately, a full time position provides benefits starting Jan 1, but for a while we were very worried about the loss of a plan and being told the closest replacement would be $350+ more a month.

Scott said...

Healthcare is a right, huh.

I cannot think of any other right where the government fines you if you don't exercise it.

It's like the old Soviet Union. Everyone has a right to a job. And if you don't have one, you go to prison.

Kent said...

Jay Carney should have worked for Marie Antoinette:

Marie Antoinette: "So the poor complain about the price of bread? Let them eat cake!"

Jay Carney: "What the Queen means to say is that cake-eating is a basic human right and bakers should not be allowed to sell inferior bread in place of cake."

Julius Reincarnate said...

All we need to do is upgrade the Intellilink to the Cenurion package...

In the meantime, just accept that we're all gonna get queefed in the face.

El Pollo Raylan said...

Hail To The Queef?

Original Mike said...

Four Pinocchios = Whoppers

From the Washington Post website.

pm317 said...

So they needed 7 million healthy people to enroll in it.. how do you get that many that quickly? Kick them out of their current plans, make them panic and run to the exchanges and enroll! Problem solved. But there was just one glitch, yes glitch (!) that no one, I said no one, saw coming. :)

Scott said...

My COBRA plan costs me $600/month. One of my providers is going out of network at the end of the year. I could get some coverage under my COBRA plan. But to replace it with a plan with similar benefits would cost me $800/month.

If the United States had a parliamentary system, Obama and his cronies would face a no-confidence vote and the government would probably be swept out of office by early next year. But because of our vaunted separation of powers, we're stuck with this clown show until 2016.

Thank you, Democrats.

pm317 said...

@Kent, hey hey.. whom are you calling queen?

Julius Reincarnate said...

THAT was the ne plus ultra of commentary on Obamacare.

TosaGuy said...

Looks like the usual suspects here don't have their talking points yet.

Jason said...

Has anyone checked on Inga? I would think she's on suicide watch.

Original Mike said...

If healthcare is a right, it follows that healthcare workers can be compelled to provide it.

I thought we abolished slavery.

El Pollo Raylan said...

TosaGuy said...
Looks like the usual suspects here don't have their talking points yet.

I intercepted one such message on a different frequency and decoded it. It basically stated that complaints about ObamaCare are now coming from geographic zones outside of the New Confederacy and that therefore bigotry was more general in the US than previously believed. It urged true believers to keep fighting and to await further instructions.

Inga said...

Why would I be on suicide watch? You righties see things through a very distorted mirror. Republicans disgraced themselves today at the hearing. Sebilius was articulate and kept her demeanor. There's really nothing to say to people like you folks anymore.

Original Mike said...

The Washington Post as "righties".

Julius Reincarnate said...

The Washington Post as "righties"

...and Matt and Trey are disgraceful Republicans...

El Pollo Raylan said...

@OM: It's a no brainer to imagine Inga to the left of the WaPo.

Original Mike said...

You'd think when the Washington Post is calling Obama a liar, Inga might think to look at her own mirror.

Remember when Obama wouldn't tell us what (if any) actions he took during Benghazi, Inga? Even you found that dismaying.

Edmund said...

If healthcare is a "right", the the government has the duty to ensure that we all get it. So, to make it cheap, they can go beyond what PPACA requires:
- require that all insurance companies make no profit.
- require that all hospitals, pharmacies, drug companies, etc. make no profit.
- require that all healthcare providers work for minimal or no wages

As far as I can remember, the rights enumerated in the Constitution are guarantees of individual actions and associations. None are rights that have to be paid for by others if you can't afford them.

El Pollo Raylan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
El Pollo Raylan said...

OM wrote: Remember when Obama wouldn't tell us what (if any) actions he took during Benghazi, Inga? Even you found that dismaying.

I remember her vehemently defending the imprisonment of the filmmaker and basically siding with Cedarford.

Kansas City said...

This is so nice to see because the Post and their fact checker show some integrity that has been missing from so much of the media during the Obama years.

People are asking how could Obama lie about such an important thing? It seems obvious that he is a politician who has gotten away with lying throughout his career and thought he could do it again. Examples: the lies in his autobiography, the lie that he was not in church on the particular Sundays when Wright made his rants, the calculated lies about Benghazi, the lies about his family during the campaign (like how his mother had health insurance problems), his opposition as a state legislator to the bill requiring care for babies born in failed abortions, etc.

Mark said...

Inga, whatever.

Mark said...

Seriously, it is funny how the TPM crowd seems to have discovered baseball tonight.

rcommal said...

.

poppa india said...

Sebilius was articulate and kept her demeanor? That's supposed to assuage the worries of all those whose insurance plans are being closed? Will that re-work the failed website? I'll bet the passengers on the Titanic were comforted by the calm demeanor of the captain as the ship went down in the frigid North Atlantic.

rcommal said...

There's no way to put too fine of a point on the ACA. It's that gross.

Lionheart said...

Inga: There's really nothing to say to people like you folks anymore.

Please follow through on this logic and Say No More.

Kirk Parker said...

Paul Z,

I think you've got that exactly backwards. Marie Antoinette's statement makes no (internal) sense otherwise.



Paddy O,

"a full time position"

Well, congratulations!

Kirk Parker said...


Inga,

Republicans disgraced themselves today, not Sebilius??? Ah, well, I suppose Baghdad Bob had his groupies, too. I don't know what's the more dismaying thought though: that you're being paid to spout this nonsense, or that you aren't being paid to spout this nonsense.

Mark said...

The paid shills are absent because the contractors paying them aren't getting the talking points (or getting conflicting sets of talking points) and none of them want to jeopardize their relationship with the payor or (more importantly) payments in the pipeline.

Julius Reincarnate said...

I have an individual plan that will be cancelled at the end of December. At first I was a little worried about this. But then I took Jay Carney's words to heart. Although I was entirely satisfied with my insurance plan, I now know that the insurance was absolutely substandard and unacceptable. So good riddance!

Look, folks, we Americans have to realize that we can't just trust our own judgement and our own seemingly-rational choices. We need to let go of this silly fantasy of self-determination. I thought my insurance was just fine but, in fact, it wasn't. My stupid brain thought wrong.

The people we've put into office-- through the ballot box or through appointment-- are not "elected representatives", they are rulers. And, let's face it, you and I want to be ruled. We want top-down black-box Keith-Alexander-style government-by-decree that makes decisions for us, lifting the responsibility for those decisions from our shoulders. I'll let you be my ruler... I can call you queen Bee, and you'll rule... you'll rule... you'll rule... let me live that fantasy.

So the powers-that-be decided that my health plan sucks balls. I accept their determination and you should accept it when they decide for you too.

rcommal said...

Inga, Inga. OMG.

rcommal said...

Eh, ya no.

El Pollo Raylan said...

So the powers-that-be decided that my health plan sucks balls. I accept their determination and you should accept it when they decide for you too.

I hear an echo of two previous voices. First, DEVO: Freedom of choice, is what you've got; freedom from choice, is what you want

Second: Man is tormented by no greater anxiety than to find someone quickly to whom he can hand over that great gift of freedom with which the ill-fated creature is born.
―Fyodor Dostoyevsky, "The Grand Inquisitor"

Hyphenated American said...
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Hyphenated American said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hyphenated American said...

Remember when Sarah plains warning about death panels wad called "lie of the year" by politifact in 2009? And in 2012, same politifact declared romney's warning that jeeps will be built in China? Well, I wonder if politifact will call obama's "if you like you insurance, you can keep your insurance" as lie of the decade. Probably not.

rcommal said...

Inga, for you, there's never enough that other people ought pay for not agreeing 100% with you. Agreeing partly won't do. Sure, that's all true on the flip side. But you're not responsible for the flip side. You ARE responsible for your side of it. But you won't take responsibility even for that. You just refuse to even see the possibility of the justice o' that.

Julius Reincarnate said...

@ChickenMan -

Did you know that there are El Pollo Loco locations on El Camino Real in Encinitas (of course!), San Diego, Tustin, Sunnyvale, and Santa Clara!!!

I always get a craving for chicken quesadilla when I see you commenting here.

cubanbob said...

It's Sebilius's fault. A person of character would have resigned and a person with intelligence never would have taken the job. No brain and no honor. Just a bimbo who got on her knees for Zero. And to think that 53% of electorate is composed of fools, knaves and idiots. God help us all.

I amazed that anyone is shocked the Obama and the Democrats lied. It's not like they ever have been truthful.

El Pollo Raylan said...

I remember her vehemently defending the imprisonment of the filmmaker and basically siding with Cedarford.

To which I'd add that the Althouse archives support this AND, more importantly, I'm emphatically not trying to hush Inga; rather, I just want her to own what she's said over the years here--as I do, and as any decent person would.

El Pollo Raylan said...

Did you know that there are El Pollo Loco locations on El Camino Real in Encinitas (of course!), San Diego, Tustin, Sunnyvale, and Santa Clara!!!

There's one in Oceanside across from the HS on Mission Ave. We used to eat there more frequently.

I also understand that there is also an El Pollo Real restaurante in Albuquerque, NM.

Julius Reincarnate said...

In the old days of absolute monarchy-- more so on the Continent rather than in, say, England-- the formal understanding was that the Law applied to everyone except the King. The King, after all, was the Law. The King couldn't, by definition, be in violation of the Law.

This principle occurs to me as I reflect on the fact that there was no admission by Team Obama that they, for instance, underestimated the degree by which individual policyholders would be affected by the new ACA regulations. Team Obama didn't make any mistakes-- you did, you idiot! You just didn't listen carefully to what Team Obama had been saying all along. You misinterpreted their words. Everything is unfolding exactly as those in charge intended it to. Team Obama didn't make any errors-- by definition!

Alex said...

I don't understand what the problem is. If a person is on a sub-standard plan than they end up having to go to the emergency room anyways and we all end up paying more in insurance premiums. Republicans are just anti-Obama and do not want to discuss the cost structure of health care and what to do about it.

Yeah, rationing. It sucks, but it's what needs to be done.

Julius Reincarnate said...

@ Alex -

If a person is on a sub-standard plan than they end up having to go to the emergency room anyways and we all end up paying more in insurance premiums.

It's amazing-- and wonderful!-- how you know my "substandard" insurance plan better than I do. After all, I am only the nominal policyholder, while you have God-like omniscience.

Of course, while my "substandard" plan covered emergency room visits with only a small co-pay, it didn't cover "substance abuse" and "behavioral health", and I think that's why it was cancelled.

Still, you know my plan better than I do, so I defer to your opinion...

Carnifex said...

HNIC--"What I meant to say was "You can keep your plan if I like it." If you were smart enough to have a decent plan, you would have known this"

What this country needs is an old fashioned stalinist purge with guns, bullets, executions and hangings of every fucking democrat in the country.(a solution posed by my wifes grandfather 70 ears ago)

I'm felling magnanimous tonight...give 'em 48 hours to get out of the country.

That includes all the illegals.

rcommal said...

This is something I do remember, and I am with the Martin Mull character about it.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

Perhaps when Obama, Reid, Pelosi et al give up their demand for sacrificial rites, then we can have a proper discussion of earned rights in addition to the unalienable (i.e. intrinsic) rights of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

No right to Life implies no right to health care. As if the two are equivalent or of equal significance.

rcommal said...

I mean, screw all silliness--

and that includes the insouciant bullshit that Carnifex just posted, for example.

Annie said...

Well rcommal, isn't that what the stalinists want to do to those who disagree with them? Some are calling for it. And those at the top are setting the stage by dehumanizing the opposition with media help.
They're street fighting and their targets are naively still following the rules, taking hit after hit.
If only there were a one party rule and everyone was lockstep. Then there will be true freedom with unicorns and candy mountains and Nurse Ratchet-Ingas who will be good little soldiers in their powerful new roles of palliative care givers of anyone who was ever a registered republican.

tim in vermont said...

"If we like your plan, you can keep your plan."

"Substandard plan" = plan that doesn't include contraceptives.

tim in vermont said...

It doesn't matter that Obama lied because he, like all liberals, knows what is best for us.

Rusty said...

Alex said...
I don't understand what the problem is. If a person is on a sub-standard plan than they end up having to go to the emergency room anyways and we all end up paying more in insurance premiums. Republicans are just anti-Obama and do not want to discuss the cost structure of health care and what to do about it.

Yeah, rationing. It sucks, but it's what needs to be don


Yes. Indeed. Pretty soon we'll all have substandard plans.

What does "rationing" always lead to, Alex.

(see my comment on markets in another thread)

damikesc said...

So, Kathleen did great...even claiming the site never crashed while the site had, in fact, crashed. And had to admit it had massive security problems.

Bob Loblaw said...

Sebelius today under oath said the web site never crashed, even as CNN runs a split screen showing that the web site is down even as she says it.

The credibility gap became a chasm early on in this administration, but now you can't even see the other side.

Sorry; these folks can't be trusted to clean up their own mess. If your surgeon FUBARed your operation, would you not only go back to that same surgeon to let him or her fix it, but also pay them for both operations? Because that's what we're doing.

jim murray said...

He lied? I'm shocked!

jim murray said...

He lied? I'm shocked!

Brennan said...

I think Sebelius thinks that there is another government position in her future. Her leadership of an executive agency is probably the worst in the last 70 years.

But hey, when your boss is President Dithers it's not like you should be scared about your job. Just distract him with Chicago Bulls water cooler talk.

Brennan said...

If a person is on a sub-standard plan than they end up having to go to the emergency room anyways and we all end up paying more in insurance premiums.

There isn't any data to support this claim.

Tank said...

The Zero Legacy:

If you like your plan, you can keep it, period.

and

I know NOTHING.

Hey, now that everyone except Inga agrees that he's a lying liar, can we call him a liar without being racists, or are we all, except Inga, racists?

pm317 said...

Kathleen Sibelius was one of the first ones to run to endorse unvetted Obama in 2008 Dem primary against Hillary. At that time she was a rising star in the Dem Party. She was the one who gave that awful response to Bush's SOTU. That didn't diminish her though because she jumped on the Obama bandwagon. But she is done now.

Tank said...

pm

Respectfully, I doubt Sebelius is anymore "done" than Susan Rice.

She failed up from her documented lies.

SGT Ted said...

Oh so the ACA is a fraudulent contract, sold with lies?

Then it should be disregarded as non-binding by moral people.

pm317 said...

@Tank, agree she is not done in the O admin but in the bigger picture, she is done.

Bob Ellison said...

My Blue Cross contract will go down on 12/31/13. I've had it since 2006. Too bad.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Tank,
He was driven to lying by our racism. But don't worry, that syndrome will be covered under your new insurance policy.

LilyBart said...

The party line is "substandard plan."


The wanted the control and the power. That's why we have Obamacare and for no other reason.

SGT Ted said...

No, they got their talking points.
It's just that their talking point lies are so idiotic that even the WaPo cannot stomach them


"Only %5 of ppl will lose their plans" etc.

Most of the koolaid drinkers cannot bear to repeat the lies, except Inga. She too dumb to see when she is being lied to.

She thinks she is educated too, which compounds the dumb 10 fold, much like most of progressivism, sold by educated liars to those educated in those lies.

SGT Ted said...

People who think healthcare is a right are morons.

LilyBart said...


Many of us saw through this from the beginning, we could see what was coming and tried to warn others - but we were vilified and told we didn't like Pres Obama of his skin color.

You won't like the future 'delivery' of healthcare either under government control: You'll find appointments and treatments harder to get.

betamax3000 said...

Sebelius = "Sprong Ze in Paniek Op"

Hagar said...

When UW-Madison swaps all its medical insurance plans for plans complying with "Obamacare", will the lie have been to AA or to the University?

Can the University be considered a "person" for this purpose?

Marshal said...

Tank said...
Respectfully, I doubt Sebelius is anymore "done" than Susan Rice.


She's done. Her function from now on is as a tar baby - attract as much of the criticism as possible so when she goes under the bus Obama can claim to have enforced accountability.

Sebelius screwed up in a way directly impacting many Americans so the impact cannot be obfuscated or spun.

Marshal said...

Brennan said...
If a person is on a sub-standard plan than they end up having to go to the emergency room anyways and we all end up paying more in insurance premiums.

There isn't any data to support this claim.


It's ridiculous for Obamacare supporters to complain about others bearing healthcare costs. That's exactly what their plan enforces, only up front and on a larger scale.

Larry J said...

LilyBart said...

Many of us saw through this from the beginning, we could see what was coming and tried to warn others - but we were vilified and told we didn't like Pres Obama of his skin color.


It's amusing how the self-proclaimed "Reality-based Community" is so blind to actual reality. Millions of us could see through Obama all along but only now are some of his supporters coming to realize that the Emperor is naked.

betamax3000 said...

If You Like Your Constitution You Can Keep It.

Unfortunately, It's Definition of Rights Has Now Been Deemed "Substandard" and You Now Must Enroll Under a Bronze, Silver or Gold Constitution. Read the Fine Print.

Tarrou said...

Well it's nice that Mr. Kessler had a thought for his reputation, four years too late. It's always cute when whores try to convince people they are reformed.

betamax3000 said...

Do Not Worry: Even the Bronze-Level Constitution Contains Numerous New Penumbras Not Available in Your Cancelled Constitution Plan.

betamax3000 said...

The Gold-Level Constitution Contains the Right to Not Be Bothered By the Little People. This Plan is Very Expensive, and Only Avaialable to a Select Few. We Select the Few, of Course.

betamax3000 said...

If You Chose to Opt Out of the Bronze, Silver or Gold Constitution Plans You Will Be Levied a Fine. Excuse Me, Its a Tax. Perfectly Legal, You Criminal.

betamax3000 said...

Realize, Of Course, That We Need to Enact the Bronze, Silver and Gold Constitutions to Find Out What Is In Them: Standard Procedure, That.

betamax3000 said...

Ann Should Do a Post Asking Readers What Rights They Would Expect to See Added -- or Removed -- in the Prospective Bronze, Silver and Gold Constitutions.

Betamax3000, Helpful as Always (if No Longer Front-Paged: it Is My Shame).

betamax3000 said...

If You Like Your Constitution You Can Keep It.

For Instance:

Bronze Constitution: It Skips from the (Modified) First to the Third Amendments.

Silver Constitution: Nope, Still No Second Amendment. Sorry.

Gold Constitution: You Can Hire as Many Armed Bodyguards as Your Pursuit of Happiness Requires.

Leit Bart said...

Given the Obama Administration's continuing, concerted deceptions and outright lies, the governors who rejected its suspect claims about Medicaid expansion were pretty darn prescient.

@Hagar, yes the cancellations being reported for individual policies do seem to be just the tip. This Forbes article shows employer group plans are about to take a big hit, as well. Big big big.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/30/no-david-axelrod-the-vast-majority-of-people-in-this-country-are-not-keeping-their-plan/

And as more workers with employer-sponsored health insurance discover that their spouses and children are automatically ineligible for premium subsidies, the outrage will grow (and so might divorces).

jr565 said...

Inga wrote:

"Why would I be on suicide watch? You righties see things through a very distorted mirror. Republicans disgraced themselves today at the hearing. Sebilius was articulate and kept her demeanor. There's really nothing to say to people like you folks anymore."


This is what happens when one side refuses to take responsibility for their actions and/or policies. For most leaders, the buck stops with them. But for Obama and the left, the buck stops with everyone else.

Its really sickening. And this is why "speaking truth to power" is now outdated. Because speaking truth to power would require holding Obama to account. As we can't have that.
The only thing that Obama needs to do is call something The Affordable Care Act, and therefore its affordable. No means testing required. No questioning of the premise. when it was Bush, they demanded absolute accountability.
For their guy, not so much. Not at all in fact.

Glen Filthie said...

Well boys n' girls, you can't blame Obutthole for this. The blame for this lies with We The People, not They The Politicians.

Good grief, Stretch Pelosi went on public record and proclaimed 'We have to pass the bill to see what's in it...'. Shouldn't have THAT been a clue that MAYBE these idiots don't know what's best for the country? And of course the Repubs screamed bloody murder but you didn't want to listen because FREE HEALTHCARE!!!

What did you think was going to happen? Now would be a good time to grow up and notice a few other things like
- who ISN'T bitching about this idiotic program? The coloured race trash in the slums who will be getting the free health care! YOU will get the bills! Enjoy!
- who else? The rich, the cronies, and the bedfellows of your politicos! Obuttholecare doesn't apply to THEM and they probably won't have to pay for it either.

If you start now, you should be sober enough to vote in 2016.

damikesc said...

She's done. Her function from now on is as a tar baby - attract as much of the criticism as possible so when she goes under the bus Obama can claim to have enforced accountability.

Obama still has Rice and Holder on the payroll. He will not fire Kathleen.

He isn't a believer in accountability.

jr565 said...

Tank wrote:
Hey, now that everyone except Inga agrees that he's a lying liar, can we call him a liar without being racists, or are we all, except Inga, racists?

Sadly there are many people like Inga. we could hit the iceberg, taken on water and have people jumping into the ocean, and they'd still be saying the titanic is the safest ship ever to set sail. When pointed out there aren't enough lifeboats, they'd say that there were, or say that the lack of lifeboats is actually a republican idea.

And if this were Hillary instead of Obama, we'd all be sexists, rather than racists. This is soviet agit prop theater forever and ever.

Tank said...

Glen

Obutthole ????

Not bad, but using Zero gives you

Ze Butthole.

A nice European flair, no?

Marshal said...

Sebilius was articulate and kept her demeanor.

I think we can all put partisanship aside to express our universal outrage over this sexist statement.

Big Mike said...

There's really nothing to say to people like you folks anymore.

And if only you'd stop trying to say it anyway, what a wonderful world this could be.

Hyphenated American said...

What's the best nickname for Obama? President "glitch" or president "I did not know"?

Marshal said...

Hyphenated American said...
What's the best nickname for Obama? President "glitch" or president "I did not know"?


Speaking of which, we're not going back far enough in the list of things Obama was unaware of. He was also famously unaware "shovel ready" didn't mean shovel ready during the stimulus fiasco, even though it was pointed out nonstop for months.

This isn't a new tactic or outome. It's who he is. Lie to pass, claim ignorance afterward.

tim in vermont said...

"There's really nothing to say to people like you folks anymore."

Inga is right here, there is nothing she can say to convince anybody who doesn't already believe what she believes, and doesn't ignore the same set of facts that she ignores, to come over to her side on this.

tim in vermont said...

"people like you.."

We are the "other" in Inga's world, beneath contempt, and not worthy of consideration.

donald said...

I'm a small businessman, Im a widower. I have no children. I'm 53, my insurance went from $176.00 to over 700.00. I let it go, cause I really don't give a flying you know what anymore.

So, after successfully operating through 16 years of Clinton and Bush, I gotta tell ya, the business and citizenry hatred of the Obama administration has been like looking at the proverbial car/train wreck in slow motion.

Trashhauler said...

Elections have consequences. I read that somewhere.

donald said...

Oh, and after hiring a few dozen scumbag thieves who stole me blind, you know real salt of the earth working man types who just wanted to be treated honestly and like the grown ass men that they were, well that's ok. I was a sap. I deserved it.

Hyphenated American said...

Tbe mark of an honest man ... Is that he means what he says, and knows what he means.
Ayn Rand.

“That means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health-care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health-care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.”
Barack Obama