June 5, 2013

Michelle Obama — unlike Barack — will not be interrupted.

Everyone's paying attention to the way Michelle Obama insisted that everyone pay attention to her or she's leaving. When some lady yelled about gay rights during a fundraising speech, the First Lady said "One of the things I don’t do well is this" and that the heckler could "listen to me or you can take the mic, but I’m leaving" and "You all decide. You have one choice."

The "you" is the heckler when she says "you can take the mic." But the "you" in "You all decide" and "You have one choice" is probably the whole audience. "You all" is a way to indicate the larger group, and she says that after the crowd, we're told, applauds loudly. She doesn't order the throng to throttle the heckler, but she's essentially saying you need to shut this woman up, because obviously, no one there wants Michelle Obama to walk out.

10 days earlier, Barack Obama was famously interrupted, also by a female heckler. He was talking about his military policies, and she was anti-war. Obama — amazing many people — went off script, engaged with her criticism, and even said she — or at least her "voice" — was "worth paying attention to"
Obama departed from his prepared script by responding: "Look at the current situation, where we are force-feeding detainees who are being held on a hunger strike. I'm willing to cut the young lady who interrupted me some slack because it's worth being passionate about. Is this who we are? Is that something our founders foresaw? Is that the America we want to leave our children? Our sense of justice is stronger than that."...

After she was led out of the auditorium, Obama was applauded when he said: "The voice of that woman is worth paying attention to.... Obviously, I do not agree with much of what she said, and obviously she wasn't listening to me in much of what I said. But these are tough issues, and the suggestion that we can gloss over them is wrong."
Obama had his reasons for engaging with his protester. In fact, it could have been planned political theater. It might have made him look good, though it's also easy to mock him for it (or, more aptly, to mock the entire speech for going this way and that, evasively). There's no way the heckler made Michelle Obama look good, especially in contrast to her husband's recent performance. It's all too easy to portray her as arrogant and unconcerned about the interests of everyone who came to the event.

But let's be a little sympathetic. She began with self-deprecation: "One of the things I don’t do well is this." And I hear in that a reference to Barack: He does do these things well. You just saw him make vivid political theater out of engaging with a woman who yelled at him. I can't do that. I can't risk that. 

Even the statements she did make are getting critiqued! She attends these events, gives a dramatic reading of the lines in a competent, actorly fashion, and that's her public role. She can't ad lib policy on the topic of some random person's choice. (In this case, it was some executive order about federal contractors discriminating against gay people.) She only wanted to say: The planners of this event are responsible for keeping perfect decorum, and my appearance is conditional on their meeting this responsibility. They've already failed me, and they need to step up and get it right immediately.

On the spot, she found a way to say that in simple language that did not involve smacking down the heckler or ordering any minions around. She used the language of choice when addressing others and spoke of her own choice as if she were a simple and powerless person who could either continue to speak or stop.

Considering the alternatives, she did pretty well.

149 comments:

TMink said...

I do not think it is fair or productive to critique spouses or children of politicians. They are just family members, they did not get votes, they did not swear to uphold the Constitution. Sure they help out, but they are just family and kind of off limits so far as I am concerned.

Same thing with preacher's kids!

Trey

MayBee said...

Off limits? She was at a fundraiser! She was doing political work.

If you listen, it sounds like she says, "one of the things I don't do" and pauses, as if saying she doesn't "do" being heckled. Then she seems to rethink the attitude and says, "well....is this"
It isn't self deprecating. It's a power move. I imagine her saying it to her daughters when they get lippy.

Peter said...

So, what's this "gay rights" shout/demand? Gays have the same rights as everyone else.

Jay said...

"One of the things I don’t do well is this."

That isn't "self deprecating" at all.

She knows, as an angry black woman, she has trouble controlling her temper. And the result would have been a PR nightmare for the WH.

But you go on believing this ugly (inside & out) woman "handled it well"

What a joke.

MayBee said...

The speech itself sounded like she was just desperate for applause. We have to do this for the children [pause. No applause]. For OUR kids [pause. No applause]. Not for ourselves [pause....and...nope]

Heckle
Stare down
Applause

campy said...

Before 2008 I never imagined I could be nostalgic for the days of Co-President Hillary.

Tank said...

I have no problem with this. People came to hear her, not some heckler.

The "problem" is that "her side," the progressives, don't believe this. They are proactive in preventing conservatives, or anyone they disagree with, from speaking, either by working to prevent their appearances, or heckling.

Chuck said...

Q. How many lesbians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A. That's not funny.

Bob said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bob said...

Best not to piss her off, she might pull your arms out of their sockets. She's been known to do that, you know.

MayBee said...

"Mom, do I have to hold Dad's hand in front of the cameras?"
"Yes, Malia"
"But mom, I'm a teenager. It is so uncool to hold hands with my dad"
"It benefits all of us, Malia"
"I'm not doing it"
"One of the things I don't do well, Malia, is this. I do not do this. You can refuse to hold his hand, but there will be no tennis camp. You choose"

madAsHell said...

It's the white woman hair. I blame the white woman hair.

Lem said...

I have no way of knowing if the heckler was a plant... but the heckling does come at a particularly convenient time.

Convenient in the sense that how they look, how they appear to the public is their central preoccupation.

Seeing how that is taking a beating, what better than a little theatrics to generate some sympathy.

Balfegor said...

I think she did reasonably well. Hecklers are childlike and rude, and ought to be shut up. It's bad enough at public events when they try to shut down opposing speech by behaving badly, but at a private event it's simply unacceptable.

It shouldn't be necessary that she call it out like that for the organizers and the attendees to respond appropriately, but in these days, I suppose it is.

Balfegor said...

Re: Lem -- update to the Buzzfeed article confirms that the heckler was planted by some activist group.

Mitchell the Bat said...

Ellen Sturtz, the heckler, looks okay enough but her lesbian partner's a real dog.

Stephanie Carnes said...

President Obama's recent heckling was definitely political theater. It wasn't some "young woman" who interrupted his speech; it was Medea Benjamin, Code Pink founder and professional heckler. How did she get in? He handled her outburst more deftly than he handles the slightest challenging question at a press conference. Afterwards, she praised him for his response!

David said...

I fault the heckler for not calling her bluff.

jacksonjay said...


From Buzzfeed, from Get Equal:

A federal contractor Executive Order would protect approximately 22% of the American workforce from LGBT workplace discrimination, and has support from the LGBT advocacy community, as well as The New York Times, The Washington Post, 37 U.S. Senators, and 110 U.S. Representatives.

22% of the American workforce is LGBT? This fad is getting a little out of hand!

rehajm said...

I fault the heckler for not calling her bluff.

Winner! Make the enemy live up to it's own book of rules

El Pollo Raylan said...

Balfegor said...
I think she did reasonably well. Hecklers are childlike and rude, and ought to be shut up. It's bad enough at public events when they try to shut down opposing speech by behaving badly, but at a private event it's simply unacceptable.

Althouse does a very good job at covering lefty attempts to counter free speech. The latest example was the Ben Carter speech. He had the grace to decline giving the lefty hecklers a chance but just imagine if he had spoken.

phx said...

I don't like hecklers of any kind. I can't think of any exceptions to that personal rule.

MayBee said...

And really, hecklers are annoying and I don't care how they are handled or if the speaker is rude to them.

(Does anyone else find it really sexist and patronizing for Obama to call Madea Benjamin "young woman"? Surely he recognizes her. Do we imagine him calling a sixty year old man "young man"?)

ricpic said...

A pox on Moochelle. A pox on her "gay" heckler. Yesterday, Becky Gerritson, the voice of DECENCY, was heard in the land. Today back to business as usual. We're supposed to weigh the merits of filth against filth? It's their America from now on? Only if we allow them to shut us up. Becky Gerritson showed the way. No more serfdom to filth.

edutcher said...

How dast she!

She Who Must Be Obeyed does not have to put up with Free Speech!

Christ, this broad has had goodies handed to her all her life and can't take a little pushback?

What's she going to do when it comes out she and ValJar have been running the country and are tighter than the Hildabeast and Huma?

The best part is what she said is the equivalent of taking your ball and going home.

God, those two deserve each other.

MathMom said...

Well, Caribou Barbie is a total nincompoop and a dullard, but she handled hundreds of union members working hard to drown out her message, by talking to them directly.

Caribou Barbie, from the University of Idaho can handle hecklers (warning, may launch automatically) better than a Princeton-and-Harvard educated lawyer. And she can do it in a cold, driving rain, with no one holding an umbrella for her.

Go figure.

ad hoc said...

She is the first lady. She was at a political event - a fundraiser. But,she says

"One of the things I don’t do well is this."

Is that not part of her job description? After 5 years, she has not developed the public speaking skills to respond adeptly to an interuption. I'm not sympathetic.

edutcher said...

PS Was she auditioning for the Queen of Hearts when she told them, "You all decide. You have one choice"?

Who does she think she is?

Colonel Angus said...

She began with self-deprecation: "One of the things I don’t do well is this."

Good grief. That's not self deprecation. That's a polite way of saying I don't deal with rude, obnoxious assholes.

Personally I can't stand Michelle Obama but I applaud her here because I loathe lefty hecklers even more.

Colonel Angus said...

Its lefty hecklers like this that reinforce my view of liberals as spoiled, petulant children that think behaving like rude, obnoxious jerks will get them noticed.

bagoh20 said...

Hecklers are either awesome or complete assholes depending on how you feel about the speaker.

Inga said...

"Who does she think she is?"

6/5/13, 8:59 AM

The wife of the President of the United States? Of course that means absolutely nothing, no respect needed, right?

She not "decent" like Tea Party Becky.

Paco Wové said...

"...depending on how you feel about the speaker"

Personally, I think pretty much all hecklers are jerks.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

This is a link to a film "Heckler" about people who heckle.

SteveR said...

She's got the Hillary, I'm off limits, even though I'm being a politician, because I'm first lady, approach. Having it both ways. And the president's heckler performance was right in his wheelhouse.

wyo sis said...

She said essentially what teachers say when they have an unruly child in class. It's common for teachers to present a choice of two options they themselves can live with. ie "You can stay and be quiet or you can go to the office."
Very straightforward.
I think she did pretty well.
Hecklers are disgusting and childish.

Clyde said...

Plant.

Next.

edutcher said...

Inga said...

Who does she think she is?

The wife of the President of the United States? Of course that means absolutely nothing, no respect needed, right?


Barabra Bush didn't throw a fit when the girls at Vassar (or wherever) threw a hissy fit because she wasn't a feminist to their standards.

Ladybird Johnson didn't go all Marie Antoinette when Eartha Kitt screeched at her about the Vietnam War.

But, yeah, this is different because Moochelle is the wife of the She Devil of the SS' President of the United States.

We must all bow down! She must not be reproached! She need not tolerate Free Speech!

Right?

She not "decent" like Tea Party Becky.

She's the one who's bitched all her life about how mean this country is after she's had an Ivy League education handed to her, been given a $300,000 job for the sole reason her husband was a State Senator in the Chicago Machine, had 5 years' of livin' large on the taxpayer dollar, including luxury vacations, because her husband was able to coat (if not steal) the Presidency on the idea he deserves it because he's half black and no one's allowed to criticize her.

So, no, she isn't fit to polish Becky Gerritson's silverware.

bagoh20 said...

"Personally, I think pretty much all hecklers are jerks."

I bet not. A Jew heckling a Hitler speech, or an endless number of less Godwinesque examples such as a taxpayer heckling at a IRS motivational conference.

Paul said...

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech, be it an Obama or a Joe in the street.

Bush had to put up with hecklers (and shoes), and Clinton did to.

If little miss Michelle can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen (but wait... 'the buck stops here' does not work for her husband either so what the heck...)

edutcher said...

s/b coast, not coat.

Paco Wové said...

Bagoh:
Ok, I will rephrase -- in the context of the current political universe of the United States, I think pretty much all hecklers are jerks.

Inga & edutcher:
Get a room.

Colonel Angus said...

I bet not. A Jew heckling a Hitler speech, or an endless number of less Godwinesque examples such as a taxpayer heckling at a IRS motivational conference.

No. Why would a Jew attend a Hitler speech? Ignoring such a moron is far more effective then giving then the attention.

If you're attending a speech or gathering for the sole purpose of disturbing it then you're a jerk regardless of your political affiliation. A reasoned debate on the merits carries more weight than shouting at someone from the cheap seats.

Balfegor said...

Re: bagoh20:

I bet not. A Jew heckling a Hitler speech, or an endless number of less Godwinesque examples such as a taxpayer heckling at a IRS motivational conference.

I'm make an exception for heckling people who actively advocate killing you, but anything less, and I really have no sympathy at all for the heckler, and kind of hope he gets tazed or something. Such awful people. They probably ride bicycles.

lemondog said...

Arrrrrrrrrr......appears anger management does pay off.

bagoh20 said...

Some of you don't seem to recognize how special this couple is. How hard they worked to get everything they ever had, how much they have accomplished in life, and how much they sacrificed to get where they are.

Brad and Angelina are good people.

Colonel Angus said...

Again, this is standard liberal behavior. If they don't get what they want, rudely interrupt someone like a five year old who was told no more dessert.

pduggie said...

So wasn't it jan brewer who stuck her finger in the presidents face and it was all racism.

Is it racism that a white lesbian thinks she can feel free to interrupt the flotus?

bagoh20 said...

" A reasoned debate on the merits carries more weight than shouting at someone from the cheap seats."

You will never get that from people who abuse power, and if they are advocating destroying your life or what you value including reasoned debate, then I cheer on the heckler. Some people just need to shut up, and they should not be immuned from being told so because their sycophants gave them a pedestal.

Are we really supposed to stand by and listen to someone lecture us about how Blacks or Jews should be rounded up and shot. The Jews politely climbed into the trains and walked into the gas chambers.

I don't think the First lady should have been heckled there, but when I started thinking to myself about heckling in general here, I decided it is sometimes a moral imperative.

Colonel Angus said...

Are we really supposed to stand by and listen to someone lecture us about how Blacks or Jews should be rounded up and shot.

Then don't stand around and listen to a lecture about Blacks and Jews getting shot.

I guess the point is that those listening to such a lecture are not going to be swayed by someone yelling at the speaker in the background.

FWIW

Larry J said...

Peter said...
So, what's this "gay rights" shout/demand? Gays have the same rights as everyone else.


And that's the problem. They want more rights than everyone else. They don't want us to merely accept their private sexual practices but to honor them at every opportunity. We must not only end discrimination against them but vigorously discriminate in favor of them. Movies, songs, TV shows and parades*, all for gay rights.

*One of my coworkers is nearing retirement as an Army intelligence specialist in the National Guard. His unit commander was reprimanded because none of the men volunteered to take place in a gay rights parade, in uniform, of course.

edutcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
edutcher said...

Paco Wové said...

Inga & edutcher:
Get a room.


Paco, take a hike.

bagoh20 said...

A reasoned debate on the merits carries more weight than shouting at someone from the cheap seats.

You will never get that from people who abuse power, and if they are advocating destroying your life or what you value including reasoned debate, then I cheer on the heckler. Some people just need to shut up, and they should not be immuned from being told so because their sycophants gave them a pedestal


Keep in mind, all, the stock in trade of community organizers (ie, rabble rousers) is heckling. They're trained to shout down anybody making a call for reasoned discourse and open debate.

Uncle Saul's rules' entire purpose is to make sure only one point of view is heard - the community organizer's.

This is how Moochelle, riding on Choom's coattails, got where she is. She knows exactly what's going on and she figures she's a carrier - she doesn't take it, she gives it.

"For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country ... And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction."

QED

edutcher said...

Of course, we can all imagine that Hillary!/Moochelle ticket.

Now there would be a cage match.

phx said...

I disdain all hecklers regardless of their party. I'm with Paco Wové, Colonel Angus, Balfegor and others in this thread who seem to agree. I'll be accountable for consistency when my opinion is asked.

But as long as rightwingers are going to heckle speakers, I have no problem tying them and their supporters to the trend of today's GOP and right-wing: rude, offensive, and arrogant.

Go for it.

William said...

The heckler fared better than Joe, the plumber, and, technically speaking, Joe wasn't even a heckler.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Much like the situation with the Sunni's and Shiites, I can only hope that both sides lose in confrontations like this.

Both the heckler and the disgusting tranny first lady Camacho.

Dante said...

Eh. I'm simply looking for another reason to despise MO. This will do.

Colonel Angus said...

But as long as rightwingers are going to heckle speakers, I have no problem tying them and their supporters to the trend of today's GOP and right-wing: rude, offensive, and arrogant.

I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face when such behavior is stock and trade of the left, particularly on university campuses.

I'm going out on a limb here but I don't think the lady heckling Michelle Obama was a rightwinger.

phx said...

I'm simply looking for another reason to despise MO.

Given you've stolen her identity I assumed you do despise her.

edutcher said...

William said...

The heckler fared better than Joe, the plumber, and, technically speaking, Joe wasn't even a heckler.

She hasn't heard about the audit.

Yet.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Somehow Phx the Twat uses a post about leftwing hecklers to project on the right.

Shouting down speakers and heckling are trademarks of the left, and very rarely if ever employed by conservatives.

But you already know that, you sniveling little shit. Just another sad attempt at thread derailment.

bagoh20 said...

We are doomed if we are willing to shut up just because the people in power say we are being rude. Methods like civil disobedience, or even Alinsky's rules are not wrong in themselves. Right or wrong is in what they are used for, what goals they are employed to achieve. This country wouldn't exist and civil rights would have been stamped out without people willing to get rude and impolite when needed.

I believe that civility is very important as long as liberty is respected, but there are times when respecting rules that your opponents do not is simply suicide. So I will not accept that civility is always right or that that incivility is always wrong, and it's important that power hungry people understand that's a potential they need to respect.

bagoh20 said...

The right is demonstrably by nature, and definition, more polite and respectful of tradition, and civility, but that's a preference not an unlimited one-sided suicide contract.

Chip S. said...

I don't do self-deprecation well.

Chip Ahoy said...

The stunt Pelosi pulled with Fluke comes to mind, the theatrics of it. This party is big on theatrics and I do not doubt they feel a part of Hollywood so much of what they do is show and my trust in government is at its lowest of my lifetime and my trust in this couple is nil. I don't believe a word of it.

bagoh20 said...

"Keep in mind, all, the stock in trade of community organizers (ie, rabble rousers) is heckling. They're trained to shout down anybody making a call for reasoned discourse and open debate."

That's right; the left does that, but the right is willing to debate, and will immediately accept that alternative. When speeches are used to shut people up and avoid debate, then it's time to heckle.

John said...

Perhaps a bit off topic but I see where Michelle O! once dated the IRS Inspector General J. Russell George.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/lady-michelle-obama-briefly-dated-inspector-general-audit-set-irs-investigation-report-article-1.1352422

Brings new meaning to the IRS and Obama being in bed together.

John Henry

Colonel Angus said...

Somehow Phx the Twat uses a post about leftwing hecklers to project on the right.

It's possible phx just assumed the heckler was a right winger since it was Michele Obama being heckled.

But that goes to my point. Liberals are equal opportunity boors whose lack of civility and social graces cross party lines. In fact I believe Obamas hecklers come largely from his own side, evidently displeased he hadn't gone full bore Chavez yet.

Colonel Angus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
El Pollo Raylan said...

phx said...

But as long as rightwingers are going to heckle speakers, I have no problem tying them and their supporters to the trend of today's GOP and right-wing: rude, offensive, and arrogant.

How is this statement not a deliberate capture of the facts under discussion, and a reassignment of "roles" in order to blame and obfuscate? Unless of course the mighty phx feels herself a speaker here?

edutcher said...

What I can't get is how Moochelle and a Gay Lesbian Womyn could diss each other.

Isn't Moochelle the Beautiful Black Womyn we've all been waiting for?

Isn't her husband the First Lesbian President?

Isn't it a mortal sin not to approve and applaud everything Gays do?

Hatman must be crushed!

campy said...

In fact I believe Obamas hecklers come largely from his own side,

Well duh. Are wingnutz even permitted in His Sacred Presence?

Baron Zemo said...

I hate it when there is just a heckler. It is only fun when there both a heckler and jeckler and they fly around and fight and shit all over the place.

Those crows are funny.

Baron Zemo said...

Wait a minute?

Is that racist?

Sorry.

Baron Zemo said...

I will admit that her speech sounded a lot better in the original Klingon.

Balfegor said...

RE: bagoh20:

We are doomed if we are willing to shut up just because the people in power say we are being rude. Methods like civil disobedience, or even Alinsky's rules are not wrong in themselves.

Some of those methods are, and some of those methods aren't. Being asked not to heckle is not the same as being asked to "shut up." It's being asked to behave like an adult with a modicum of self-control.

There are plenty of fora in which one can express disagreement, and in fact, many means of expressing disagreement that are not particularly disruptive. One can, for example, turn one's back on the speaker, or get up and walk out en masse during the break before the speaker begins to speak. All of these are rude and should be sufficient satisfy an adolescent desire to be rude, but they are much less disruptive and much more respectful of the host and of the other members of the audience.

Further more, does anyone really think that heckling is effective at getting one's message out? At persuading onlookers that one's opposing message is valid? Hardly! I'm sure many hecklers have, in the back of their heads, a kind of Walter Mitty-ish fantasy in which their overpowering eloquence and thundering voice reveal to all onlookers that the emperor has no clothes and the scales fall from all eyes, and the power of whoever or whatever it is they are heckling is broken for-ever and Sauron departs Middle Earth as a wretched wisp on the wind, but in fact most of us are just embarassed for them making fools of themselves like that.

It's not persuasive. As a mode of argument, it's just one step above those lackwits who think that lying down in traffic and obstructing commutes will endear people to their cause. The most it can hope to achieve (and in some cases, it does achieve this) is preventing other voices from being heard by drowning them out with a ruckus. But mostly, it's just people acting out like their 13 years old and mummy won't let them go to the party. It's just plain stupid. Pathetic.

Balfegor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Colonel Angus said...

Balfegor, very well said. The Walter Kitty / Dayton references were especially well done. Bravo sir.

dreams said...

I don't like her regardless of how well she did and she will not get any respect from me.

Sam L. said...

MO does what MO wants.

Dante said...

Given you've stolen her identity I assumed you do despise her.

I'm not sure how this is stealing. I'm actually advocating for MO, by letting everyone see a part of her personality. I'm helping to spread MO's attitude to Althouse bloggers.

When an opportune time comes along, I'll help to spread some other personae, free of charge. Probably Nancy Pelosi, and Hillary Clinton.

rhhardin said...

She'd be worth listening to if she picked a Don Rickles approach to hecklers.

Otherwise she's just the schmuck she appears to be.

Jim said...

Would have liked to have seen it go down something like this:

Michelle: "Beat her f'n a$$ Emily's List. Get that B."

http://theothermccain.com/2013/06/02/photo-model-citizen-kaitlyn-hunt-helps-sister-in-2-on-1-beach-beatdown/

Bob Ellison said...

No, she did not do well. She is not elected. She is a princess. She should shut up.

Jay said...

phx said...

But as long as rightwingers are going to heckle speakers,


Except the first lady wasn't heckled by a "right winger"

You idiot.

Rliyen said...

Yeah, she handled it well. About as well as a petulant 4 year old who was going to take their ball and go home. She made the masses eject the offender; Michelle wouldn't, or actually couldn't, engage the heckler in a meaningful way.

Dante said...

What one would expect from a Queen:

She came right down in my face,” Sturtz said. “I was taken aback.”

Sturtz said she told Obama she was happy to take the microphone to plead her case, which, Sturtz said, appeared to fluster the first lady.


Attribution link seems to not work, try this if you want to see reference:www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/06/04/michelle-obama-confronts-protester-threatens-to-leave-fundraiser

Rliyen said...

Yeah, she handled it well. About as well as a petulant 4 year old who was going to take their ball and go home. She made the masses eject the offender; Michelle wouldn't, or actually couldn't, engage the heckler in a meaningful way.

edutcher said...

Apparently, the Captial Police are taking their lead from Her Majesty. They are dragging their feet granting a permit for a Tea Party rally.

Forget that First Amendment right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Constitutional Rights, it's a contact sport.

Wayworn Wanderer said...

Can't we just leave First Ladies alone?

Wayworn Wanderer said...

Can't we just leave First Ladies alone?

Cedarford said...

Rliyen said...
Yeah, she handled it well. About as well as a petulant 4 year old who was going to take their ball and go home. She made the masses eject the offender; Michelle wouldn't, or actually couldn't, engage the heckler in a meaningful way.

======================
I personally think it is a great idea - if from time to time a heckler seeking to destroy the right of the speaker to speak - knows the possibility is there that a speaker 99.9% of the crowd wants to speak will leave and blame them directly.

In this case, a stupid bitch who would see MIchelle, the SS, and local cop backup all walk. Leaving her in the middle of a very angry and upset several thousand Michelle Obama supporters,

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Can't we just leave First Ladies alone?

Only if they leave us alone first.

Jeff Teal said...

Hecklers commit lese` majeste police escort them out.The Consort was offended.

Dante said...

Can't we just leave First Ladies alone?

Sure, when they leave us alone. Remember Hillary care? Now it's MO lunches, and MO fat.

El Pollo Raylan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
El Pollo Raylan said...

Michelle Obama once said: Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed.

The incident under discussion here is one of the few I recall where Michelle Obama was in a sense saying that to her own flock. That is a teachable moment and one which phx blew by trying to pin this on the right. For shame.

Methadras said...

The perpetually sneering bitch does her Shawanda routine?

phx said...

My point is that many righties here defend the principle of heckling. As I said I'm against it no matter who is doing it.

But when righties do it, it's correct and effective to tie them to the general coarsening of the right in recent years. I'm perfectly comfortable tying rightwing hecklers to contemporary conservatism. IMO it's going to hurt the right - I think for example that the recent College Republican study talked about the GOP being hurt by the perception of rudeness and arrogance.

Feel free to do what you want with leftwing hecklers. I don't abide them myself. But you guys will lose this game overall IMO.

Darrell said...

Set up.

It's to make Michelle look Presidential. The first shot of the Michelle Obama 2016 Presidential Exploratory Committee. Did it work?

Colonel Angus said...

. I'm perfectly comfortable tying rightwing hecklers to contemporary conservatism. IMO it's going to hurt the right

I'm not sure I understand your concern trolling here considering the two instances of Barrack and Michele being heckled came from leftists.

Oh I'm sure there are right wingers who engage in heckling but I think you should worry about your side's monopoly versus the few number of rightwing start ups trying to break into the market.

Seriously you are either being intellectually dishonest or blissfully ignorant not to acknowledge the coarseness of the leftwing over the last decade plus.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Phx you disengenous little bitch, care to name some incidents of these right wing hecklers that are so prevalent?

Those ultra conservative code pinkers huh?

Those militantly right wing enviornmentalist?

Don't taze me bro?

The Scott Walker and Sarah Palin shout downs?

Every time Coulter speaks at a college?

You are utterly full of shit, and your little "im so moderate, i don't like when anyone heckles."

Again you try to derail the thread with off topic criticisms of the republican party that have fuck all to do with heckling in general, and the topic of the thread specifically.

Eat shit and kill yourself.

Oh, and how is your lawsuit against Jay coming, you stupid twat?

El Pollo Raylan said...

Oh I'm sure there are right wingers who engage in heckling but I think you should worry about your side's monopoly versus the few number of rightwing start ups trying to break into the market.

Phx is too busy digging a mote around her eye.

phx said...

Oh I'm sure there are right wingers who engage in heckling but I think you should worry about your side's monopoly versus the few number of rightwing start ups trying to break into the market.

Seriously you are either being intellectually dishonest or blissfully ignorant not to acknowledge the coarseness of the leftwing over the last decade plus.


I was addressing the people from the right here who were defending the principle of heckling - which I don't subscribe to.

As to the coarseness of the leftwing my impression is that this is more of a problem from the right at this point. And fine if you disagree, but my argument would be that even if you were right it's mostly from the left it's still a bigger problem for the right in terms of PR IMO.

So my overall feeling is, go ahead and heckle righties. The lefties will benefit.

phx said...

"And fine if you disagree, but my argument would be that even if you were right it's mostly from the left it's still a bigger problem for the right in terms of PR IMO." = Doesn't matter as much who does it more, the right suffers for it more.

edutcher said...

Wayworn Wanderer said...

Can't we just leave First Ladies alone?

Too bad you didn't see it that way when it was Nancy Reagan.

Or Pat Nixon.

edutcher said...

phx said...

I was addressing the people from the right here who were defending the principle of heckling - which I don't subscribe to.

Now.

Wait until we see the next Republican Administration.

Or until phx' Messiah tells him to, "Get in their faces. Punch back twice as hard".

Remember?

He was soooo good at that a couple of months ago.

Before he discovered civility.

Methadras said...

phx said...

So my overall feeling is, go ahead and heckle righties. The lefties will benefit.


You are such a joke. Keep clinging to your small things and small ideas. It's all you have left.

Colonel Angus said...

I was addressing the people from the right here who were defending the principle of heckling - which I don't subscribe to.

Seems the majority on this thread disagreed with it.

As to the coarseness of the leftwing my impression is that this is more of a problem from the right at this point. And fine if you disagree, but my argument would be that even if you were right it's mostly from the left it's still a bigger problem for the right in terms of PR IMO

I see. So what you are saying is that conservatives are held to a higher standard. Well that's no surprise and I agree with you. Lefties like Bill Mahr can call Sarah Palin a c**t or wish she was gang raped and lefties including so called feminists titter away. Biden can call Obama a clean and articulate black man and become vice president.

So yes its more a problem with the right because the expectation is that conservatives will act like adults. Good point.

Colonel Angus said...

phx said...

So my overall feeling is, go ahead and heckle righties. The lefties will benefit.


So basically they will flock to heckling lefties. You know what, good. The less hypocrites among conservatives the better, even if were the minority. Principle is more valuable than political power.

But since there are few if any cases of rightwing heckling, I'm not too concerned.

phx said...

There's a lot to castigate people on both sides in terms of lack of civility. By no means is it unfair to make your own complaints.

I'm just saying I think you're losing the game. You can blame the media if you want.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

I predict a childless future with many cats for Phx the Twat. Like Maureen Dowd, without the high salary of shilling for the democrats.

No man would have her, perhaps a Chaz Bono-esque lesbian.

But back to the topic at hand, Michelle Antoinette gets very angry when her majesty is questioned. How dare she be interupted when groveling for political donation?

I'm sure she will need another multi million dollar taxpayer funded vacation to get over how upset she is.

GT said...

Because hecklers are even lower in my eyes than is Michelle O, I thought she handled it reasonably well.

That said, it also seems clear that MO had no real desire to be at this function, saw it as an unpleasant duty, and was immediately prepared to leave once things started to go off script.

Colonel Angus said...

I'm just saying I think you're losing the game.

Why is that do you think? Why do you think conservatives are held to a higher standard while lefties can behave like petulant brats (see the Michele Obama heckler) and that doesn't hurt them?

Honestly curious why you think this is the case? Is it simply because that's the expected behavior from the left?

Methadras said...

phx said...

I'm just saying I think you're losing the game. You can blame the media if you want.


We already know that what you think is without merit and is a delusion, but stick to your fantasies all you want.

phx said...

Honestly curious why you think this is the case?

Well I certainly have my theories but that's all they are, I couldn't say for sure. It sounds like you might agere with the premise though, GOP (or the right) is losing the PR wars?

Colonel Angus said...

Well I certainly have my theories but that's all they are, I couldn't say for sure.

What are your theories? That was my question. Why is there a double standard?



Balfegor said...

Re: Colonel Angus:

Honestly curious why you think this is the case? Is it simply because that's the expected behavior from the left?

I can't answer for phx but, um, yeah? Boorishness and rudeness have been the hallmarks of the Left since the 60's. Épater la bourgeoisie, and all that.

And on the flip side, it's not just that conservatives are expected to act like adults and exhibit self-control -- it's that conservatism is about keeping alive a tradition and a way of life of which self-control and good manners are a fundamental part, supporting a free society in which order is self-sustaining without legions of gendarmes and magistrates and deputy assistant vice-commissioners enforcing pettifogging legal regulations governing every aspect of human life. A conservative activist flouting traditional etiquette is a species of hypocrisy, a hint to the observer that his commitment to the ideals he professes is weaker than his desire to win.

phx said...

it's that conservatism is about keeping alive a tradition and a way of life of which self-control and good manners are a fundamental part

I completely agere with this, I think it's one of the great selling points that the right has. Unfortunately in my mind it was undermined by right-wing talk radio, the behaviors of some of the Tea Partiers at town hall meetings etc., and of course you can see conservatives in this thread who have a different idea how to keep those traditions alive.

I need to think about your question more Colonel Angus.

Colonel Angus said...

@Balfegor

I don't disagree on any particular point you made. My opinion is that the left is so convinced in the rightness of their cause that any behavior is acceptable and justified in its furtherance.

I will agree that the left is better at spin such as opposing illegal immigration is really being anti-immigrant and racist, not insisting that certain people follow the rules everyone else has to.

Naturally the left will always have the PR advantages in that its easy to promise entitlement, particularly when they can use other people's money to pay for it. Naturally asking people to be self reliant and not rely on the State for everything is harder because self reliance can be hard.

Colonel Angus said...

I need to think about your question more Colonel Angus.

Why? If you are certain the right suffers more from hecklers than the left you should have a concrete opinion or theory as why.

Or, and forgive me for saying this, is this another example of your formulating an opinion without actually thinking about it?

Jay said...

phx said...
My point is that many righties here defend the principle of heckling.


The number of instances of you criticizing leftist heckling - and it has been a topic of posts on this blog - remains at zero.

You have no credibility and you're a clown.

phx said...

I need to think about your question more Colonel Angus.

Why?


Because I'm working and multi-tasking.

phx said...

The number of instances of you criticizing leftist heckling - and it has been a topic of posts on this blog - remains at zero.

You have no credibility and you're a clown.



I don't reserve for myself anything I don't reserve for you. If I feel free to criticize right-wing hecklers and tie them to the right in general, you're welcome to do the same with the left. Good luck.

Just like you do your namecalling as a rightie, and as a lefty I prefer to show greater maturity and better rhetorical skills.

SOJO said...

The people who are not in power are always more "coarse".

I remember the "Sarah Palin is a cunt" and "Bros before Hos" (Obama v Hillary t-shirts).

You really can't get worse than that.

In my experience, the right tends to be more civil in public and more coarse on public forums. Go figure. The left the opposite.

Re: this incident: She kept it under control and handled it fairly well. It was dangerous because it could be seen as a modified version of going ghetto, but really our temporary rulers are supposed to engaged the citizenry - who resort to tactics like that in an attempt to be heard and covered by the media.


President-Mom-Jeans said...

"I prefer to show greater maturity and better rhetorical skills."

And occasionally make baseless threats of legal action.

Because thats soooooo mature, right Phx?

Jay said...

I don't reserve for myself anything I don't reserve for you.

You're a silly, ignorant hypocrite who takes to the Internet to say silly, ignorant hypocrite things.

Jay said...

phx said...
Because I'm working and multi-tasking.


Hilarious.

Yet you find the time to make non-sensical replies to me.

You have to "think about" whether or not you have principles.

Bozo.

phx said...

Hilarious.

Yet you find the time to make non-sensical replies to me.

You have to "think about" whether or not you have principles.

Bozo.



Why are you trolling me?

Jay said...

phx said...
If I feel free to criticize right-wing hecklers and tie them to the right in general, you're welcome to do the same with the left.


I don't need to "tie" anything to the left. I could bog this server down with examples of leftist heckling, leftists restricting free speech, and leftists threatening people on the right. It is who they are and what the do.

What is comical is that you reveal you need to "tie" things to "the right" - much in the manner leftists tried to "tie" the Gabby Giffords shooting to "the right" - because it shows you're a dishonest hack.

Of course everyone reading knew that already.

So there's that.

phx said...

What is comical is that you reveal you need to "tie" things to "the right"

Be clear. I'm not talking about tying "things" to the right. I'm talking about tying people like YOU to the right.

It's very effective IMO.

Amartel said...

The heckler is a total jackass but she's their jackass. Michelle Obama is one of the faces of Team Obama and she should be able to exploit/handle the heckler. But "one of the things I don't do well is this." What, listen to other people, deal with the rude, think on your feet? You're in the wrong business, lady. Such a passive aggressive princess move to throw it to the audience.

Methadras said...

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"I prefer to show greater maturity and better rhetorical skills."

And occasionally make baseless threats of legal action.

Because thats soooooo mature, right Phx?


Oh you mean legal action that leftists love to make against their opposition on the internet? Yeah, I remember the threats that Inga made against me like saying she was going to tell on of the alphabet agencies about how I made a threat against Hillary Clinton. I was sorely disappointed because I was waiting for them to show up as I had baked cookies and made iced tea for them. So sad.

phx said...

I see we're at the end of the thread where the three bottomfeeders gather - Jay, President-Mom-Jeans and Methadras.

Jay said...

phx said...
Be clear. I'm not talking about tying "things" to the right. I'm talking about tying people like YOU to the right.


Hysterical

Let us know how that works out for you, dumbshit.

wyo sis said...

As long as the laws of free speech hold we have to deal with hecklers within that law. What we don't have to do is condone it from one side and reject it from the other.
I don't like hecklers but I'm glad to live in a country that allows them to speak.Even when I disagree with them.
And I also think the way you respond to a heckler verbally is part of free speech.
The perceptions of the listeners are their own and they have a right to those perceptions as well. That's the consequence part of speech and it's outside the laws men can make.

phx said...

Let us know how that works out for you, dumbshit.

It's working out pretty well for the Democrats.

El Pollo Raylan said...

It's working out pretty well for the Democrats.

I.R.S. Targeting of Conservative Groups Could Resonate in 2014 by Nate Silver.

Mixed signals, I guess.

Jay said...

phx said...

It's working out pretty well for the Democrats.


I bet it is. Just ask Congresswoman Colbert-Busch.

Inga said...

Meth just buzzes around here with his two buddies, PMJ and Jay, like shit eating horseflys.

The stink of shit and buzzing is all one notices after a while.

sydney said...

Can't say that I blame her for handling it like that. She was speaking at a DNC fundraiser. Probably not something she naturally enjoys doing, the way a person like Bill Clinton does. In fact, she probably considers it a favor she is doing for them. In those circumstances, her approach makes sense. She's not the politician in the family. Her husband is.

Paco Wové said...

"Why do you think conservatives are held to a higher standard while lefties can behave like petulant brats ... and that doesn't hurt them?"

Was Co. Angus' question ever addressed? I don't think so, but I might have missed it in all the back-and-forth.

phx said...

Was Co. Angus' question ever addressed? I don't think so, but I might have missed it in all the back-and-forth.

I think there are a number of reasons but the one from Balfegor you might have misses was,

"...it's not just that conservatives are expected to act like adults and exhibit self-control -- it's that conservatism is about keeping alive a tradition and a way of life of which self-control and good manners are a fundamental part, supporting a free society in which order is self-sustaining without legions of gendarmes and magistrates and deputy assistant vice-commissioners enforcing pettifogging legal regulations governing every aspect of human life. A conservative activist flouting traditional etiquette is a species of hypocrisy, a hint to the observer that his commitment to the ideals he professes is weaker than his desire to win."

I think there's something to that. I also think a lot of people don't necessarily hold conservatives to a higher standard, that there's some play pretending at victimization going on here.

Steve Koch said...

Heckling a scheduled speech is less about free speech and more about denying free speech. The scheduled speaker should be permitted to make his speech without heckling, the audience came to hear the scheduled speaker, not the heckler who is trying to hijack the speech.

Having trained security people eject (if the heckler won't shut up) hecklers seems like an OK way to deal with hecklers. Having the audience deal with hecklers via mob collective action is a bad idea.

Steve Koch said...

phx said:
"that there's some play pretending at victimization going on here."

Clearly dem hacktivists routinely attempt (and often succeed) to deny conservatives the right to present their ideas on college campuses. No false victimization there. Conservatives don't do that to lefties. So wrt denial of free speech, dems are orders of magnitude worse than conservatives. This is exactly what you would expect from lefties, when they gain power, their first move is to suppress dissent, whether it it was national socialists like Hitler and Mussolini or more traditional Marxists like Mao, Stalin, Castro, and Chavez.

It seems dubious that this approach is a net positive for the dems cuz it energizes conservatives (i.e. it confirms that dems tend toward fascism) and appalls any American who values free speech. It also makes a martyr out of the conservatives who are denied their right to speak. It also demonstrates a lack of confidence by dems to win a fair debate.



phx said...

Clearly dem hacktivists routinely attempt (and often succeed) to deny conservatives the right to present their ideas on college campuses.

Yeah, I don't favor that at all either.

Although no points for being victimized if you cancel your speaking engagement ahead of time.

But I won't water my condemnation down because the left or libs are doing. It's plain wrong to heckle in a way that disrupts anyone's free speech.

Steve Koch said...

phx,

Good for you. Glad to see that we are agreeing more with each other lately.

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