May 24, 2013

"Youth gang riots in the Swedish capital Stockholm have entered fifth straight night."

"Hundreds of mostly immigrant teenagers tore through the suburbs, smashing windows and burning cars in the country’s worst outbreak of violence in years."
“The problem is not from the Swedish government or from the Swedish people,” [said Swedish journalist Ingrid Carlqvist]. “The last 20 years or so, we have seen so many immigrants coming to Sweden that really don’t like Sweden. They do not want to integrate, they do not want to live in [Swedish] society: Working, paying taxes and so on.”

“The people come here now because they know that Sweden will give them money for nothing. They don’t have to work, they don’t have to pay taxes – they can just stay here and get a lot of money. That is really a problem,” Carlqvist added.

“The police could do so much, [instead] they have told the public that they mean to do as little as possible. But they could go there and use water cannons, they could not let people out onto the streets at night. There are so many things they could do within the law – but they don’t do it,” she said.
The police won't protect the people who work and have their money redistributed to people who don't work and don't even like Sweden. It's the taxpayers who should be protesting, but they're humbly cowering hoping for police protection, and they can't even get that.

144 comments:

Matthew Sablan said...

So, the Swedes won the Superbowl AND the Stanley Cup?

hawkeyedjb said...

And David Cameron has announced that the appropriate response to the head-chopper in London is... to advise soldiers not to wear their uniforms in public.

Surrender. Abject surrender.

Astro said...

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

What could possibly go wrong?

Mitchell the Bat said...

The solution is to send all the immigrant teenagers to film school.

Nonapod said...

Lot's of great Captain Obvious quotes here:

“The people come here now because they know that Sweden will give them money for nothing. They don’t have to work, they don’t have to pay taxes – they can just stay here and get a lot of money. That is really a problem,” Carlqvist added.
[...]
“It’s always the same problem. There is a massive refusal by Muslim youngsters of the basics of Western society... and they take any excuse whatsoever to show that with violence – that is where the problem is,” he said.

virgil xenophon said...

Isn't it absolutely wonderful to be
so "culturally enriched?"

ricpic said...

You haven't gone far enough in dhimmitude, Swedes. Submit!

virgil xenophon said...

Or as someone once put it: "There's more to life than having good Thai and Mexican restaurants readily available."

"But think of all the good ethnic restaurants we'll be missing out on if we limit immigration?"

Right..

"Man does not live by bread alone."

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Those darn immigrants from Norway, Finland, and Denmark are always causing trouble.

What? The immigrants were from somewhere else? Funny how they didn't mention that in the article. In fact, you have to get to paragraph 21 ( out of 26 ) before the article mentions the characteristic that these youths have in common that separates them from the non-rioting youths.

jr565 said...

This is how democracy ends, with a whimper, not a bang.

jacksonjay said...


This is so, so shocking! Whoever could have seen this coming?

SteveR said...

Yeah Captain Obvious is busy with this one. I think the recent Western European attitude towards immigration doeesn't work very well and its clearly the model for many in the United States. Assimilation is necessary.

jr565 said...

(though technically, chopping peoples heads off does require a lot of bangs).

Achilles said...

It is time to end the war on terror for sure. These kids are just reacting to the mistreatment of Muslims at the hands of the horrible American army.

jacksonjay said...


And David Cameron has announced that the appropriate response to the head-chopper in London is... to advise soldiers not to wear their uniforms in public.

The once great British Empire reduced to sheltering in place! They civilized the world, now they cower in fear.

pduggie said...

"Althouse's blog became a mirror of Steve Sailer's so slowly no-one even noticed it" - to paraphrase Marge Simpson.

:)

Big Mike said...

The Vikings portrayed on the History Channel would have known how to handle this.

edutcher said...

"The people come here now because they know that Sweden will give them money for nothing. They don’t have to work, they don’t have to pay taxes – they can just stay here and get a lot of money."

What awaits us if Chuckie Schumer gets his way.

gerry said...

But...it's only in one neighborhood!

ricpic said...

The main thing is to never ever have One Ugly Thought About Islam. That way you remain a part of the beautiful ruling class. In Sweden. Here. Everywhere the beauteous ones clamp down in righteous fury on UGLINESS! Then, when darkness falls, and it will, it will be beautiful darkness.

bagoh20 said...

I'm shocked!

It's great when the government actually helps you rob people. The rioting is because, as easy as the robbing is in socialism, it can always be a little easier if the government will just work harder. Like the Occupy thingies, they just want the government to be more effective at the larceny. Is that so much to ask? We don't want you kill the golden goose, just rough it up a little. It's not even bleeding.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

We are all going to die on the altar of Diversity.

Sam Fisher said...

Racist Ann strikes again.

Epiphyte - said...


"The police are running. Allahu Akhbar!"


http://youtu.be/855cMXnCXjU

virgil xenophon said...

I was re-reading the Steve Ambrose book about the Transcontinental Railroad ("Nothing Like It in the World") the other night and asked myself why a young widow post civil-war, with two young twin six-yr-old daughters would feel perfectly safe boarding a train unescorted in St. Louis and traveling alone all the way to Sacramento or S.F. Was it because the Engine was armored? No. Was it because the windows were bullet and arrow-proof? No. Was it because the Army had stationed guards at every train-trestle and tunnel along the route? No. Was it because the Cavalry escorted the trains every step of the way? No. What then, was the reason such a defenseless person would feel safe?

Very simple. We killed all the Indians. Or so many as the remainder were too few to pose a threat and those we herded onto reservations where they could be watched and controlled.

End of homily..

tim in vermont said...

You are all racists, all of you! These "youths" are just victims of "Swedish privilege."

Epiphyte - said...


"The police are running. Allahu Akhbar!"


http://youtu.be/855cMXnCXjU

EMD said...

What? The immigrants were from somewhere else? Funny how they didn't mention that in the article. In fact, you have to get to paragraph 21 ( out of 26 ) before the article mentions the characteristic that these youths have in common that separates them from the non-rioting youths.

The Guardian article I read never mentions this.

SGT Ted said...

They just can't bring themselves to say the word 'Muslim" when talking about who these people are and what exactly motivates their violence, can they?

EMD said...

And David Cameron has announced that the appropriate response to the head-chopper in London is... to advise soldiers not to wear their uniforms in public.

This was extremely disheartening.

BoboFromTexas said...

The Religion of Peace continues to spread it's loving arms across the planet.

Lyle said...

I can't tell you how many academics I know that would love for the U.S. to be just like Sweden.

Scott M said...

We are all going to die on the altar of Diversity.

Not all of us. One would think "diversity" rules would change somewhat if the rioters and their ilk were truly in charge.

bagoh20 said...

It may be cruel, but I hope things get even worse in Europe. It may be the only thing that saves our country. They have long been ahead of us in the leftward march, and now they are ahead of us in the decline that follows. The U.S. is currently doing much better than Europe on nearly every front. It's only because we are just slightly less left.

Obamacare is the biggest single step we have ever taken to catch up to Europe's run to the cliff. It's gonna either fall apart first or drag us over right behind the Euroweenies.

One of many data points

Michael K said...

We need 30 million illiterate immigrants so we can...

rhhardin said...

No immigrants at all from muslim majority countries would be a nice policy start.

rhhardin said...

Lukefisk honor killings are next.

pm317 said...

There are two facets to this problem.
1) Sweden (and many other European countries) have no equivalent to the "American Dream" and do not give room to the immigrants to grow and assimilate (if you are put down at every turn for being who you are, where is the incentive to adopt and assimilate?);
2) Muslim immigrants especially have difficulties in respecting and adopting their host country traditions and culture.

However, it is quite amazing how it works in America even when it does not. I have a guy at work, who grew up here, a fully functioning American citizen in most aspects but had to go to Bangladesh to find a woman to marry -- reason being his parents. Even though they have lived here for decades, they have not adopted the ways of this life and the son feels embarrassed about doing this, feels the chuckles from others behind his back but the family pull puts him where he is today. Still life for him is not too shabby because it is America. Life in Sweden for this guy would be hell I presume with very single minute of his day and night, receiving judgement from his Swedish counterparts. Of course, I have to add that not every immigrant in Sweden is rioting either and some are happy to go along to get along.

pm317 said...

But I will add, if these immigrants do not want to respect the traditions and culture of the country they come to, why go there?

The answer is also staring right in our face, poverty.

Jeff Calvert said...

The irony of Swedes paying danegeld, and finding it's not enough.....

tim in vermont said...

Can I emigrate to a country like Sweden, I wonder? Sounds good to me. I will take the handouts and not even get mad at anybody over it.

El Pollo Raylan said...

bagoh20 said...
It may be cruel, but I hope things get even worse in Europe. It may be the only thing that saves our country.

Be careful what you wish for. Europe, in generations past, has proven able to lurch towards fascism under the right conditions. Right now, the missing ingredient is severe economic downturn.

It's easy to see how Sweden appears out of balance right now and how the failure to do anything about the seething sore only worsens things in the long term.
I wonder if policymakers there and here will ever come right out and admit that assimilation is a virtue and that encouraging diversity for its own sake leads to division and strife. Why is that such a hard concept? Is it because too much is invested in the concept to admit its failure?

Unknown said...

“The people come here now because they know that Sweden will give them money for nothing. They don’t have to work, they don’t have to pay taxes – they can just stay here and get a lot of money. That is really a problem,” Carlqvist added.


There are a lot of Americans who would be happy to move to Sweden for that deal and they would probably be a lot less trouble then the Muslim immigrants they have now.

cubanbob said...

At some point and probably sooner than later-If this continues and worsens Europeans will reacquaint themselves with their inner-assholes. And when they do they won't deal with willfully unassimilated youths with PC platitudes and water cannons.

Paul said...

So folks.. now you understand GUN CONTROL.

See in Sweden what you would see here if guns were very restricted and people relied on the police to protect them.

This is the very thing the liberals and progressives want. That way they can stay in power by allowing 'immigration' from places that would vote for THEM.

They do not care what happens to the country in 50 or 100 years, as long as they have the power NOW.

wyo sis said...

pm317
If I read you correctly you're saying these "immigrants" are rioting because the country they essentially invaded is insufficiently welcoming.

Seeing Red said...

They are the ones they have been waiting for.

It sounds with youth unemployment so high almost everywhere over there, it's gonna be a hot time on the old continent 2nite!

Peter said...

"This is how democracy ends, with a whimper, not a bang."

That's what happens when you give away your country. It wasn't that invaders came, overpowering and then taking what they pleased. It was Swedes themselves saying, "C'mon over- all this can be yours!"

And now Swedes discover it's not theirs anymore.

"Headpiece stuffed with straw, alas! Our dried voices, when. We whisper together. Are quiet and meaningless. As wind ..." saith T.S. Eliot. Hollow men indeed, a people who lost their country- not because it was taken, but because they just ... gave it away.

Unknown said...

Lyle said...

I can't tell you how many academics I know that would love for the U.S. to be just like Sweden.




Well, it seems that Sweden has a pretty sweet deal for immigrants. Perhaps those academics could be persuaded to move there.

Ken said...

Who could have foreseen that this is the endpoint for the so called "progressive" model for government!? If only people had warned against the corrupting influence of redistributing wealth independent of effort on politicians and those who receive this wealth without having worked for it!!

Kirk Parker said...

So Althouse reads Gates of Vienna?

pm317 said...

that encouraging diversity for its own sake leads to division and strife

Yes, especially without a support structure to foster links between diverse groups. What will hold them together? What is the incentive for an Italian to bond with a Bangladeshi? If there is no incentive, can they at least coexist without treading on each other? I think America has perfected (from this immigrant's perspective) both angles, carrot and stick (and rule of law).

I grew up in India and it has the second largest Muslim population in the world. How do they coexist without killing each other? There is a strong carrot and stick for the minority and much like America, they also have perfected that aspect (I must say the diversity in India and how it manages it does not get much recognition).

Jay said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
We are all going to die on the altar of Diversity.


Well, we may, but I assure you I'm going down shooting.

Luckily the state I live in has a shit-ton of guns, and if this happened anywhere near where I live the "youths" would be shot down without anybody losing too much sleep.

AprilApple said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay said...

by the way, the disarmed places such as San Fran, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, etc will be the first to have Islamic city councils who will push to hang gay people.

That is going to be a fun time in America.

madAsHell said...

Diversity is Good.
Taxation is Wealth.
Property is Theft.

pm317 said...

wyo sis said..
-----------

There are problems on both sides. I lived in Europe, so I know what I am talking about, and I was not even one of those refugee type poor immigrant. You could say, why are not the immigrants grateful to be asked to come and live in that beautiful country. Fair enough. But you would be asking them to give up their ignorance, pride and humanity (in some cases) and what they get in return is judgement, harsh judgement. The children of immigrants are acting up.

Also, traditionally, American immigration policy (notwithstanding 'illegal alien' problem) has always been one of bringing in skilled labor from outside(this may have changed in the age of Obama). I remember i my early years here in the late 80s, many commenting before us, that they have yet to see a dumb Indian. that is because of the immigration policy. You decide who you let into your country.

Immigration is a complex issue and Swedes for all their wealth and knowledge don't have it figured out.

elkh1 said...

Jay said...
by the way, the disarmed places such as San Fran, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, etc will be the first to have Islamic city councils who will push to hang gay people.

How about Boston where our fight for independence began? They have a huge mosque, and redistribute enough taxpayers' money to the Islamists that they could afford a $900 pair of shoes?

Mighty glad we have the 2nd Amendment, but let's stock up the ammunitions. Big Sis has tried to corner the market, the nice blue govts who cannot outlaw guns, will control the availability of ammunitions.

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger hawkeyedjb said...

And David Cameron has announced that the appropriate response to the head-chopper in London is... to advise soldiers not to wear their uniforms in public.

Surrender. Abject surrender.

5/24/13, 9:25 AM
___________________________________

I wonder what he'll do when they start decapitating bobbies.

pm317 said...

In the age of Obama, we saw on a city bus while walking around Dipont Circle, a huge banner on the side of the bus that said "Muslim civilization, blah, blah, Smithsonian". My husband was heard muttering, Muslim civilization, there is no such thing in world history, really. It was not a snark comment -- there is no such thing discussed in world history, period. We are reduced to flattering them without getting much of vale in return.

Michael McNeil said...

Time to recall what the late prominent American socialist Michael Harrington had to say almost a quarter century ago when asked “why he thought socialism had never caught on in the United States” (the last of his three points is what I'm referring to):

“I think that's very complicated, but to just tick off a number of the reasons:

“Number one, we're a presidential country, not a parliamentary country. In Canada, so much like us, there's a socialist party which in the polls right now is at about 28-29 percent, which has been 20 percent or better for years. In part that's because in Canada you can vote for your socialist candidate for Parliament, and he or she can then affect the Executive in the Parliament.

“Number two. Because the United States in the period when most European workers were becoming socialist, which was the period roughly from 1880 to 1914 — in the United States that was the period in which it was more important that you were Catholic, Protestant or Jewish, white or black, Italian, Irish, etc. That is to say, our race, our ethnicity, all of those complexities made it difficult to develop a class consciousness when people were much more ethnically and religiously and racially conscious.

“Finally, the most complex of all, in my opinion. There's a sense in which I think America is the most socialist country on the face of the earth right now — which is one of the reasons we don't have a socialist movement. By that I mean that the United States I think has always been one of the most egalitarian, open, non-deferential societies. We've never had any real Tories — any real conservatives — in America. One of the reasons that Canada has a socialist movement is that our Tories went to Canada after the Revolution, and sat around and told the workers that they were human refuse — that they were no good! And one of the things that generates socialist consciousness is having a bunch of upper-class snobs trying to push people down — we've never had it. And, I think, in a crazy way — socially — I've always thought that America is really much more socialist than Sweden!”

(MacNeil-Lehrer Newshour, Robert MacNeil's interview with Michael Harrington, broadcast August 2, 1989; transcribed from videotape by me.)

Perhaps the haughty attitude he refers to — also, in addition to the ideology is Islam — has something to do with the troubles that Sweden and other countries in Europe are having with their Muslim immigrants.

pm317 said...

*Dupont*

*value*

The Drill SGT said...

Colonists is the correct term, not immigrants...

TosaGuy said...

The Swedes in Minnesota are slowly discovering this also.

The Drill SGT said...

why a young widow post civil-war, with two young twin six-yr-old daughters would feel perfectly safe boarding a train unescorted in St. Louis and traveling alone all the way to Sacramento or S.F

add in a moral code that was common among the passengers and enforced by society...

AprilApple said...

“The people come here now because they know that Sweden will give them money for nothing. They don’t have to work, they don’t have to pay taxes – they can just stay here and get a lot of money. That is really a problem,” Carlqvist added.


Coming soon to America.

I have a dead-beat drug addicted/ alcoholic family member who got $7,000 back from the federal government this year. He sells marijuana and doesn't claim any of it as income.

Isn't that nice?

All we need now is tax payer funded free stuff for people who come here illegally, and voter laws that legitimize and institutionalize fraud-for-democrats.

(fixed a bit)

pm317 said...

@Michael McNeil

Appreciate your comment about Harrington.

And I think this is very much why I fell in love with America (and I predict every other immigrant int his country):

"We've never had any real Tories — any real conservatives — in America. One of the reasons that Canada has a socialist movement is that our Tories went to Canada after the Revolution, and sat around and told the workers that they were human refuse — that they were no good! And one of the things that generates socialist consciousness is having a bunch of upper-class snobs trying to push people down — we've never had it."

wyo sis said...

You know who has the immigrant problem figured out?
Muslims.

pm317 said...

wyo sis said...
------------

They should be left alone in their Islamic Republic countries if they are not ready to play by the rules in a mixed society. Historically, they behave when they are in a mixed society with a good dose of rule of law over their head. I hate to single them out like that but no other group as a whole is behaving like they are right now.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
We are all going to die on the altar of Diversity.

Well, we may, but I assure you I'm going down shooting.

Ditto.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

pm317,

1) Sweden (and many other European countries) have no equivalent to the "American Dream" and do not give room to the immigrants to grow and assimilate (if you are put down at every turn for being who you are, where is the incentive to adopt and assimilate?);
2) Muslim immigrants especially have difficulties in respecting and adopting their host country traditions and culture.


Then why go to Sweden? Seriously.

"[D]ifficulties in respecting and adopting their host country traditions and culture" is right. Apparently, for one thing, non-Muslim women are fair game for rape, especially if they aren't "modestly" dressed.

edutcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott M said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott M said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
edutcher said...

virgil xenophon said...

I was re-reading the Steve Ambrose book about the Transcontinental Railroad ("Nothing Like It in the World") the other night and asked myself why a young widow post civil-war, with two young twin six-yr-old daughters would feel perfectly safe boarding a train unescorted in St. Louis and traveling alone all the way to Sacramento or S.F. Was it because the Engine was armored? No. Was it because the windows were bullet and arrow-proof? No. Was it because the Army had stationed guards at every train-trestle and tunnel along the route? No. Was it because the Cavalry escorted the trains every step of the way? No. What then, was the reason such a defenseless person would feel safe?

Very simple. We killed all the Indians. Or so many as the remainder were too few to pose a threat and those we herded onto reservations where they could be watched and controlled.


No, there were plenty of Indians along the right of way - the UP laid track and carried passengers through the worst of the Plains wars, but the Indians didn't have the technology to stop a train (handcar, maybe). That and everybody, including the widows, was armed and would have loved a little target practice.

bagoh20 said...

It may be cruel, but I hope things get even worse in Europe. It may be the only thing that saves our country. They have long been ahead of us in the leftward march, and now they are ahead of us in the decline that follows.

The media ignored Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, too.

The idiots here want their Permanent Democrat Majority and will destroy anybody who gets in its way.

Yeah, there's a war coming here.

40 years overdue, but it's coming.

The U.S. is currently doing much better than Europe on nearly every front. It's only because we are just slightly less left.

The Choom Gang is working hard to change that.

Scott M said...

Maybe the Germans would be better for that though. I hear they know how to handle crowds.

elkh1 said...

pm317 said... But you would be asking them to give up their ignorance, pride and humanity...

Pride in their ignorance.

I talked to a waitress in a Chinese restaurant once, on Oct 1, the Chinese Independence Day. We were commenting on China. She was upset that a lot of Chinese immigrants were not patriotic to China. I said: why the hell are you here if you're so patriotic to China?

I'm an immigrant from Hong Kong. In those days you have to prove that you have enough money in the bank or have a sponsor who was stuck to support you if you couldn't make a living. You're not eligible for welfare for seven years. That's why the immigrants were highly skilled and were very proud of coming to this country.

Alas, those days were long gone, politicians need to buy votes from welfare dependent immigrants with taxpayers' money. If you don't work, you cannot take pride in earning a living yourself. You'll blame everybody else for your laziness and lack of accomplishments. You despise yourself and believe other people despise you.

Richard Dolan said...

Teh Europeans don't know what to do -- understandable, since they have no history of melting-pot nation building -- but at least they seem to have figured out that their good intentions aren't enough. From that article, it seems that some were expecting that immigrants from the Lands of Islam would, upon arrival in Sweden, become Swedish (in the conventional understanding) in short order. Surprise. Our own history shows that creating a nation out of the world's diaspora is no easy task.

Methadras said...

Youth gang riots? Don't we mean bands of roving muslims? The ones that have infiltrated Sweden to join the land of the great multi-cultural experiment? What a joke the dhimmi's have become.

dc said...

After 5 nights of rioting the Swedish police have made their first arrest.They arrested journalist Ingrid Carlqvist for her offensive remarks that offended the rioters.

The Drill SGT said...

edutcher said...
No, there were plenty of Indians along the right of way - the UP laid track and carried passengers through the worst of the Plains wars, but the Indians didn't have the technology to stop a train (handcar, maybe). That and everybody, including the widows, was armed and would have loved a little target practice.


other than to pull a few spikes and cause a train derailment and shoot up the injured? (e.g. French resistance)

Or burn a wooden trestle bridge and allow the train to run itself into a gorge? shoot up injured, etc, loot, repeat :)

Or drop trees onto the tracks forming a barricade?

Peter said...

"Meanwhile, the Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt blamed the violence on 'hooligans' "

The word "hooligan" is most likely derived from the Irish surname "Hooligan" or "O'Hooligan." Of course, it has come to refer to any unruly, usually young, individual.

Yet somehow it seems the wrong word to use here. "Mohammadans" doesn't have the same connotation (and is probably forbidden on sensitivity grounds).

So, I would suggest the best term to describe these "youths" would be, "rioters" or perhaps "insurrectionists."

John said...

I get confused with these headlines about youths rioting.

Is this perhaps Presbyterian youths rioting against their Lutheran elders?

Or what?

John Henry

gk1 said...

Thank god I still live in a country where I can protect my home and family with a rifle like the korean shop owners during the Rodney King riots in L.A. Drop a few of those assholes in the streets and see how quickly the perpetually outraged run for cover.France, Sweden, Denmark they all deserve what they get for not standing up for themselves. Bullies sense weakness, everytime.

pm317 said...

Incidentally, Germany tried to emulate America a few years ago by instituting a green card immigration policy when needed skilled labor. But there were not many takers. Guess why! There was no path to citizenship and full rights. Again, America comes out in front. I worry that both left and right will screw up what is beautiful about America.

Jay said...

elkh1 said...

How about Boston where our fight for independence began? They have a huge mosque, and redistribute enough taxpayers' money to the Islamists that they could afford a $900 pair of shoes?


The sooner we get Elizabeth Warren in a burka, the better. In my opinion...

The Drill SGT said...

Scott M said...
Maybe the Germans would be better for that though. I hear they know how to handle crowds.


LOL, "The Germans may not have law, but they will have order"

a German cop pulls you over for speeding? He asks you nicely once: "Stehen sie auf". If you don't immediately get out of the car, he's coming in through the window with his baton :)

When the Red Brigades bombed the US Army in the mid-70s, the German Federal Police put road blocks across the freeways, with Armored cars and heavy machine guns, then proceeded to search every car.

The wife, an Army Colonel, was TDY in Germany a couple of years ago, and wandered off base between a double line of riot police facing a world cup fan base (of immigrants). trust me, you don't want to be on the wrong side of a line of Politzei

traditionalguy said...

The religion of peace seems to be getting antsy. There is a stronger than usual push to kill infidels and steal their stuff.

They are showing off the power of the Death Penalty. Europe may have outlawed it, but Mohammed said to go use it on anyone that does not submit.

I suspect the ultimate showdown in Jerusalem is not far off.

Michael McNeil said...

No, there were plenty of Indians along the right of way — the UP laid track and carried passengers through the worst of the Plains wars, but they didn't have the technology to stop a train (handcar, maybe). That and everybody, including the widows, was armed and would have loved a little target practice.

Interestingly, Indians did frequently snipe on steamboats making their way up and down the Missouri-Mississippi to Montana* — to such an extent that the pilothouses of such boats received special armoring.

(*Ultimate destination Fort Benton: known as the “world's innermost port”, it was 3,385 miles, on a dangerous, twisty river filled with snags, from there to the Gulf, but which tremendous distance one could nonetheless traverse in some considerable luxury during the mid-1800's.)

pst314 said...

pm317 "There are two facets to this problem. 1) Sweden (and many other European countries) have no equivalent to the "American Dream" and do not give room to the immigrants to grow and assimilate..."

I have read this many times in the last 15 to 20 years, from enough credible sources that I accept it as a valid point. And yet: It's only the Muslim immigrants who are a a problem. Hindu immigrants, for instance, seem to peacefully assimilate, work hard, and achieve economic success.

pst314 said...

pm317 "I grew up in India..."

Then perhaps you have lots more observations that might be pertinent to some of the topics discussed here.

gutless said...

Europeans, my historic people, are among the most war-like and savage on the face of the globe when aroused. See 20th century. If and when the Muslim invasion issue jells- probably not to far off- hold on to your hats. See EDL.

gutless said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
pst314 said...

m317 "I grew up in India and it has the second largest Muslim population in the world. How do they coexist without killing each other? There is a strong carrot and stick for the minority..."

In my limited experience here in America, Indian Muslims do not feel any real respect for Hinduism or other religions, suggesting to me that the "carrot and stick" policy keeps civil order to a large extent but is far less successful at creating genuine ties of respect and fellow feeling.

pm317 said...

pst314 said...
---------

Your observation is valid. There is something to be said about Islam as a religion and if you look at all mixed societies where it is a part of, it is usually with strong rule of law. They more or less have to be cowed to accept others have equal rights. No PC and treating them with gloved hands in the name of tolerance. So what the lefties are doing in this country will lead to more problems than solutions.
(BTW, Hinduism has no strong ideology of one way or another -- it is just more about living a harmonious life with others -- may be that is why it works).

Anglelyne said...

pm317: You could say, why are not the immigrants grateful to be asked to come and live in that beautiful country. Fair enough. But you would be asking them to give up their ignorance, pride and humanity (in some cases) and what they get in return is judgement, harsh judgement. The children of immigrants are acting up.

Any country that decides to allow in sizable numbers of immigrants has got to exercise some degree of "harsh judgment" against the alien ways of newcomers. Any country that values its own culture will have to strictly limit how much and what kind of "exotic" behavior it will tolerate. It may be "harsh" to expect newcomers to conform, but after all they were not forced to immigrate, and that "harshness" is nowhere near as pernicious and destructive as the current cult of "diversity" is to native European cultures. (A recent Swedish minister made the preposterous claim that Swedes "don't have a culture of their own" and should be grateful to Third World immigrants for bringing them "real culture". The English have been bullied with the same vicious nonsense - "there is no such thing as an Englishman". These people are insane, but the inmates have been running the immigration policy for a while now.)

Contrary to current "nation of immigrants" mythology, the U.S. was itself pretty "harsh" in its demands for assimilation, and at times had unapologetic racist/ethnic-quota immigration policies set up explicitly for the purpose of maintaining its existing cultural character. Newcomers did occasionally "act up" (that's inevitable), but they also conformed in pretty short order. And the native majority sure didn't guilt-trip itself over "not being welcoming enough".

Immigration is a complex issue and Swedes for all their wealth and knowledge don't have it figured out.

It's not that complex, at least in the sense that sensible people have known all along what the consequences of foolish immigration policies would be. The situation in Sweden (and the rest of Europe) is not really that different from the contemporary U.S. - truly mindless policies of relentless mass immigration have been imposed on populations that didn't want it and are now becoming severely stressed by it. In the U.S. as in Europe the people pushing this folly either benefit from it personally or are nicely cocooned against its negative consequences.

LarsPorsena said...

"...There is something to be said about Islam as a religion and if you look at all mixed societies where it is a part of, it is usually with strong rule of law..."

Give me your top three examples.

Colonel Angus said...

If they are not willing to adopt the customs and traditions of their new home country then perhaps they should go back to the shithole they came from.

That holds true for immigrants in this country as well.

Colonel Angus said...

Then again what do expect from a country that hasn't had to defend itself for 300 years.

Hard to believe the region that spawned some of the fiercest warriors in history turned into a cowering bunch of wimps.

I'm starting to wonder if all of Europe is on a suicide countdown.

annk said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
pm317 said...

Give me your top three examples.

India, USA (still and will be if the lefties don't muck it up), and dig into some history..I am not a sociologist. So mostly speaking from personal observations.

annk said...

The once great British Empire reduced to sheltering in place! They civilized the world, now they cower in fear.
If you cannot protect your own castle, who is left to protect the entire kingdom?

Dave said...

Hey 'Ignorance is Bliss': my Swedish and Norwegian ancestors checked in with immigration, headed West, got jobs, bought land, built their families, and paid their taxes. They did NOT go on welfare, riot, or attempt to impose their way of life on others. I don't oppose immigration. I just oppose letting in people who won't do what my ancestors did: become Americans.

Colonel Angus said...

Maybe the Germans would be better for that though. I hear they know how to handle crowds.

So do the French. Or did at one time. A 12 pounder with canister can still be useful in the 21st century

Andy Freeman said...

> 1) Sweden (and many other European countries) have no equivalent to the "American Dream" and do not give room to the immigrants to grow and assimilate (if you are put down at every turn for being who you are, where is the incentive to adopt and assimilate?);

While that's commonly said, I doubt that it's actually true.

And, if it's true, either the immigrants are idiots or they think that the support that they get is worth the "abuse".

I write idiots because if they don't like the deal, they're free to go elsewhere.

> 2) Muslim immigrants especially have difficulties in respecting and adopting their host country traditions and culture.

If they have difficulty, it's either because of nature or nurture.

If they're not willing to fix the latter....

The Drill SGT said...

Colonel Angus said...
So do the French. Or did at one time.


still do. walk in a French airport and you see pairs of CRS, both with pistols, one with a BIG Franco-Prussian Shepard, the other with a submachine gun...

The Drill SGT said...

Colonists

By definition, immigrants assimilate, Colonists do not.

edutcher said...

The Drill SGT said...

No, there were plenty of Indians along the right of way - the UP laid track and carried passengers through the worst of the Plains wars, but the Indians didn't have the technology to stop a train (handcar, maybe). That and everybody, including the widows, was armed and would have loved a little target practice.


other than to pull a few spikes and cause a train derailment and shoot up the injured? (e.g. French resistance)

Or burn a wooden trestle bridge and allow the train to run itself into a gorge? shoot up injured, etc, loot, repeat :)

Or drop trees onto the tracks forming a barricade?


'Fraid not.

The best they ever did was put several pairs of warriors on horseback on either side of the track holding grass ropes.

When the train came roaring through, the Indians and their mounts were pulled under the wheels.

Needless to say, they went back to trying to pick off the occasional gandy dancer.

Anglelyne said...

pm317: Yes, especially without a support structure to foster links between diverse groups. What will hold them together? What is the incentive for an Italian to bond with a Bangladeshi? If there is no incentive, can they at least coexist without treading on each other?[...]

I grew up in India and it has the second largest Muslim population in the world. How do they coexist without killing each other? There is a strong carrot and stick for the minority and much like America, they also have perfected that aspect (I must say the diversity in India and how it manages it does not get much recognition).


That India deals well with the immense diversity it was dealt by history is commendable. But that's not the same thing as the recent, artificially-created, and entirely preventable "diversity" problems that have risen in Sweden, Holland, Britain, etc.. There is no reason any of those places should need "support structures to foster links between diverse groups", in an attempt to deal with the stresses of extreme diversity, when the "diversity" should never have been let in such unmanageable numbers in the first place. (There is no reason, beyond the ideological crackpottery of irresponsible elites, that Muslims are rioting in Stockholm, or the English are now a minority in their own capital city, or [fill in the blank]). The natives are justifiably resentful of the bullshit that has been imposed upon them.

The Drill SGT said...

Muslims in India don't assimilate either. India has just codified a 'separate, but equal' system to deal with Muslims

The Drill SGT said...

edutcher,

my point was not what the Indians did, but what was within the range of their tech base if they had thought about it.

Kirk Parker said...

Colonel Angus,

"I'm starting to wonder if all of Europe is on a suicide countdown. [emphasis added]"

You're a little slow, aren't you? ;-)



Jack Wayne said...

Dear Ann, did you just wake up? The Swedes have had a Muslim on white girls rape problem for years. Now they've graduated to rioting and looting. Fuck the Swedes. They've invited these barbarians in, let them get away with all kinds of crap and now they find they don't like it.....

Jack Wayne said...

Dear Ann, did you just wake up? The Swedes have had a Muslim on white girls rape problem for years. Now they've graduated to rioting and looting. Fuck the Swedes. They've invited these barbarians in, let them get away with all kinds of crap and now they find they don't like it.....

pm317 said...

The Drill SGT said...
---------
"On the day that terrorists attacked Sri Lankan cricketers, I had a previously arranged speaking engagement at a university in Delhi before largely Muslim students. I began with the suggestion that every Indian Muslim should offer a special, public prayer of thanks to the Almighty Allah for His extraordinary benevolence - for the mercy He had shown by preventing us from ending up in Pakistan in 1947. The suggestion was received with startled amusement, instinctive applause and a palpable sense of sheer relief. "
From here:
read it and see if you still feel separate but equal.. Do you think Blacks in this country have it as 'separate but equal'?

edutcher said...

The Drill SGT said...

edutcher,

my point was not what the Indians did, but what was within the range of their tech base if they had thought about it.


But it wasn't. Remember, these people had no real synthetic manufacture.

To them, it really was an Iron Horse and the way they did attack it shows a lot about how they thought of it.

In the ultimate sense, they really didn't have a tech base. I read a piece some years ago about Sand Creek in which the author was extremely skeptical of the story Black Kettle ran up a white flag partly because any kind of semi-permanent structure was beyond their comprehension.

Texan99 said...

What? The immigrants were from somewhere else? Funny how they didn't mention that in the article. In fact, you have to get to paragraph 21 ( out of 26 ) before the article mentions the characteristic that these youths have in common that separates them from the non-rioting youths.

Ha! That's exactly what I did: counted the paragraphs until I stopped having to play "Guess that ethnicity." "Rampaging teenagers," "Youth," "Youth gangs," for 20 paragraphs. What could possibly be motivating them?

pst314 said...

Anglelyne "Any country that decides to allow in sizable numbers of immigrants has got to exercise some degree of 'harsh judgement' against the alien ways of newcomers..."

I agree.

See Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" for some facts about immigration over 100 years ago that do not fit into the liberal dogma of "innocent immigrants oppressed by racist America".

ken in sc said...

Somebody burned a convenience store in North Carolina because it was owned by Sikhs. This was a really ignorant, stupid gesture because someone did know the difference between Muslims and Sikhs. They left anti-Muslim graffiti.

My favorite liquor store is owned by a Sikh. He is always playing his Punjabi prayers on his computer. I like liquor and I like Sikhs.

Our governor is a Methodist Sikh, and she's good looking too.

The problem is Islam.

Texan99 said...

I wonder what he'll do when they start decapitating bobbies.

Disarm the bobbies and tell them to quit wearing uniforms on the street.

pst314 said...

Jack Wayne "The Swedes have had a Muslim on white girls rape problem for years."

Sweden, Denmark and other Scandinavian nations used to have very low incidences of rape. The far higher rates today are due to large numbers of Muslims who regard infidel girls as fair targets of any evil that they happen to enjoy.

I'll leave it as "an exercise for the reader" to make conclusions about how the West should view Islam and Muslim immigration. :-)

Ralph Gizzip said...

As I read somewhere way up-thread. It's time to play "Cowboys and Muslims."

Anglelyne said...

pm317 to Drill Sgt:...read it and see if you still feel separate but equal..

It was my understanding that there are differences by religion in some aspects of the civil (not criminal) code - marriage, divorce, inheritance, family law stuff. (I recall some article I read about some Indian Muslim women not being too happy about this.)

Do you think Blacks in this country have it as 'separate but equal'?

Not clear what your point is here. Is somebody disputing that the U.S. has had racially discriminatory laws?

The Drill SGT said...

This was a really ignorant, stupid gesture because someone did know the difference between Muslims and Sikhs.

short version: The Sikh is the one with the neat Turbin and beard

Illuninati said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Illuninati said...

I'm not sure India has solved its Muslim problem yet. Perhaps they are in a temporary truce, hudna, in the main part of India but the was is still hot in the periphery.

Does anyone remember Kashmir? How many Hindus have the Muslims in Kashmir killed? Up to 80,000 killed and counting.

pm317 said...

is a Methodist Sikh,

Haha, I like that. I once had a surgeon whose name was Robert Ahmed and I asked him what the origin of his name was because they are two separate religion and he just laughed and said, he was well covered. All gods from both sides looking out for him.

pm317 said...

How many Hindus have the Muslims in Kashmir killed?

Yep. many Hindu Pundits were killed and scared off of that region (by Pakistanis and separatists). It was a well functioning mixed society until Pakistan started to meddle, death by thousand cuts and all, the Hindu population from there was forced out to make it a Muslim state. It is a Pakistan problem and not necessarily Indian Muslim problem. I am partial to Indian Muslims, I grew up with them and they are no different. Yes, India has shown tolerance to some accommodation with the religion wrt some laws (what do you do with greedy politicians who treat them like vote banks?). By and large they have made a good and productive life for themselves without getting lured into larger 'Islam' problem around the world and creating problems there.

Illuninati said...

PM317 said:

"I am partial to Indian Muslims, I grew up with them and they are no different... By and large they have made a good and productive life for themselves without getting lured into larger 'Islam' problem around the world and creating problems there."

Aren't the Muslims in Kashmir who are killing Hindus Indian Muslims?

David said...

Meanwhile, in Washington . . . .

furious_a said...

Urban Yutes?

It's time to play...

GUESS! WHICH! GREATWORLDFAITH!

furious_a said...

Isn't India's Muslim population larger than that of the "world's largest Muslim nation" -- Indonesia?

pm317 said...

Aren't the Muslims in Kashmir who are killing Hindus Indian Muslims?

Not entirely. There is a lot of Pakistani influence, infiltration, separatists influenced and funded by foreign entities.. lot going on there. I would not put it on Indian Muslims. There are not a lot of Hindus left there either. The exodus happened long time ago when Pakistan first started its Kashmir campaign and thought it could pin prick India to bits, probably in the late 70s or even as later as 80s.

Steve said...

Barbarians pull down civilizations again and again - but only when civilization has decayed.

Socialism and multi-culturism have rusted the gates, now the ever present barbarians breech the gates and take the city.

Sad.

ganderson said...
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ganderson said...

I know a lot of Swedes- I speak the language and visit there a fair amount. I think many of them are surprised- they can't imagine why people would not wish to become Swedes- they figured it would only be a matter of time before the 'youths' (the Swedish press bends over backward to avoid the 'M' word) would be eating lutfisk and watching hockey. It hasn't worked out that way. There used to be a website called Säfflemannen that chronicled at lot of the issues with immigrants- I think it got closed down. I'm sad for the land of my ancestors!

Strelnikov said...

Can't help but notice that, as is usually the case, the 'youths' themselves are not pictured. Something about their appearance we shouldn't see?

Anthony said...

If only Sweden embraced multiculturalism, established a decent welfare system and stayed out of the Iraqi and Afghanistan wars this would not have happened.

The Drill SGT said...

Anthony,

Very late, but very very good :)

ErnieG said...

The rape issue is not a new problem. I posted the following comment in a thread at timblair.blogspot.com back in 2002:

Veils, or at least scarves, may become popular in Germany, Norway, Denmark, and the Netherlands once word gets around that it’s a good way to keep from being raped.

I missed Sweden.

Some time later I saw an article about young women in the Netherlands wearing scarves walking home at night.

n.n said...

Dissociation of risk causes corruption among individuals who lack integrity. Immigration policies which exceed the rate of assimilation have repercussions for the native population. Who is benefiting from advocating policies which ignore the obvious?

The consequences of these policies are further exacerbated through tactics which denigrate individual dignity and devalue human life.

Europe is at a stage where it is forced to review the consequences of unqualified progress.

Good luck, Europeans. The horde is already inside the gates, aided and abetted by subversion from within.

n.n said...

ErnieG:

The women should expose their breasts to protest men, and women, who do not respect individual dignity. That will show the rape-rapists and others who do not share or are incapable of a common morality.

n.n said...

The regime will not provide aid because they invited the horde as a means to increase their democratic leverage. The existing social programs already reached saturation in the native population. What is a democratic leader, faced with increasing internal competition, to do?

ErnieG, you also missed Britain and probably countless others, notably Serbia/Kosovo.

Anthony, you noticed the discrepancy between cause and effect. This will become increasingly obvious as the product of the discrepancy asserts its will for its own purpose.

Duke said...

The passivity of the natives allows the ruling elite to impose their death wish on both. Life on earth is an eternal turf war. The Europeans and Scandinavians have grown weary of the struggle. The Americans maybe not so.