May 21, 2013

"Why not raise the rim, to restore basketball to its proper form?"

"I am a purist at heart for this game, and it galls me to see the players today lack the proper fundamentals in passing, cutting, shooting, setting screens and, above all, proper spacing."

But consider this:
One of the unique aspects of the game, as created by Naismith, was the height of the baskets: when peach baskets were nailed to the railing of the running track at the Springfield, Mass., Teachers College one day in 1891, they were hung at 10 feet -- because that was how high the railing was. There was no more thought given to it than that.
Which way does that cut? You could say the baskets should be raised, because the original height was just happenstance, and nothing profound. Or you could say they should not be changed, because they were never calibrated to the height of the players in the first place.

200 comments:

Chip S. said...

We're just lucky that they stopped using peach baskets before people started dunking.

edutcher said...

The players, starting with guys like Wilt Chamberlain, have been recruited for height and not much else (my father called them "giraffes").

Raising the basket would make it more competitive.

Sam L. said...

And the average male height then was?

"Typical" tall male height, and tallest known?

Go for 12'.

Baron Zemo said...

This is an old argument that his been around since I was a kid. I remember when they outlawed dunking in college ball. Mainly to stop Lew Alcindor and Elvin Hayes from making a mockery of the game by just dunking over everyone.

It is the old controversy of white basketball vs black basketball.

Nothing new here. Carry on.

Baron Zemo said...

There is nothing wrong with the game today. It is a different game than it was when it first began. Let go of the stupid traditionalism bullshit.

If you did it in football they would have leather helmets and no facemasks and lots of spinal cord injuries.

If you did it in baseball you would have a dead ball and no black guys.

Things change. In basketball they changed for the better.

Kevin said...

But...racist!

Original Mike said...

If they raised the rim, I might actually watch.

SteveR said...

I'd rather they move back the three point line, a recent construct that greatly influences how the game is played. Or eliminate it entirely.

JHapp said...

I would like to see a game or two with baskets set at 12' before casting a vote.

Chip S. said...

No need to raise the rim.

Just watch women's bball instead of men's.

Ann Althouse said...

"Let go of the stupid traditionalism bullshit."

There are traditionalist arguments on both sides.

Baron Zemo said...

It actually is one of the few times where I have to say the racialists have a point.

They don't like it because white guys can't jump so they can't compete. Which isn't even really true. White players are too soft nowadays. Except for your Europeans.

Of course they are helped by the Drazen Petrovic Memorial act of 1997 in which a rule was passed that you could not have a white guy on your team unless he was a foreignor or a son of Rick Barry.

Original Mike said...

Maybe we should have 2 baskets. The one at 10' garners 2 points. The one at 12' garners 4.

Baron Zemo said...

This is like the bullshit with the designated hitter. Move into the new century and shut the fuck up Bob Costas you commie douchenozzle.

Don't blame the game if you can't do it right.


Original Mike said...

"It actually is one of the few times where I have to say the racialists have a point."

Your point only extends to players As a member of the audience, I don't give a fuck what color the players are.

Baron Zemo said...

Maybe they can play with a bowling ball too!

That could change the game right there!

Lem said...

Baseball lowered the mound when it looked like pitching was too dominant.

Baron Zemo said...

The problem with the game is the coaching. You see there are really too few competent coachs in the league.

If you don't believe me look at what Mike Woodson did in the last two minutes of the Knicks elimination game. That was a worse abortion than anyone that fucking doctor did in Philly.

X said...

I still say 3 ball soccer is the future.

Baron Zemo said...

Yeah Lem and they almost destroyed the game. Thats when they decided to go on the juice. For the ball. And the players.

Don't break it if it is working.

The NBA has never made more money than it does right now. The level of play is far superior to what it was in the sixties or seventies.

campy said...

Don't raise the rim; lower the floor.

Chip S. said...

They could make the players wear work boots w/ steel shanks.

Original Mike said...

"Maybe they can play with a bowling ball too!

That could change the game right there!"


It would certainly change rebounding.

Baron Zemo said...

I was a big fan of the old Knicks. My first game was in 1973 in the championship year.

Tbat tean would get slaughtered today. They just didn't have the athletes to compete.

exhelodrvr1 said...

THey should make marathons longer, too. They were never intended to be run as fast as they are today.

Chip S. said...

Vary the weight of the players' boots in proportion to their height.

Bring affirmative action to pro sports at long last.

Drago said...

If you think there isn't enough passing, screening etc then you haven't been watching San Antonio.

Baron Zemo said...

Dave Debusshere would have to bulk up to have a David Lee career if he was lucky.

Willis would be a power foward in the mold of Kenyon Martin.

Bradley would not be in the league at all. Too slow. He couldn't even be Steve Kerr because he couldn't shoot enough.

Earl the Pearl would not have lasted because of his knees and the fact that he was also too slow. At best he could be Craig Hodges.

The only one who would have been a star is Clyde. He would have been great in any era. Today he would be an all pro.

X said...

I see the NBA finally modified the travelling rule in 2010 to legalize the travelling that had been ignored for decades.

Lem said...

The level of play is far superior to what it was in the sixties or seventies.

From my perspective, and I'm not a basketball fan, you are making the case for a change.

The way I understand the argument for the change, is that the increase ease, with which a basket is scored, is moving the game away from the essential subtleties of team play to showboating displays more in line with Olympic athleticism.

On the other hand... and this is what I think you are saying... maybe that's what the fans want.

bagoh20 said...

It's irrelevant why it was done originally. If it worked out that it calibrated the game well by accident then that's what it did. If it no longer works well then change it. It's not like the ball, shoes, court or anything else is identical to then.

The problem is legacy. People have been learning with a 10 foot hoop their whole careers, and suddenly they would suck, but it's still fair. It will be a problem for all the millions of hoops around the world that people currently know are just like the pros use. Playing with a lower hoop will make us feel like chumps.

Everyone else is just like me. We all know Kobe Bryant is gonna come to our court someday and challenge us, and we will kick his ass in the Cinderella event of a lifetime. We need to be ready.

X said...

Which way does that cut? You could say the baskets should be raised, because the original height was just happenstance, and nothing profound. Or you could say they should not be changed, because they were never calibrated to the height of the players in the first place.

or you could ponder why he didn't put them on the floor and logically conclude they were originally intended to be out of reach.

bpm4532 said...

Barry will push federal legislation to mandate the lowering of the rim until he can do better than 2-22 at the free throw line.

TosaGuy said...

I didn't know that Bo Ryan, the college king of boring basketball, wrote under a pseudonym.

Rabel said...

You kids get off of my parquet.

I don't watch the NBA, but in the college game it's the hand checks and body contact on the guards that disrupts the playmaking.

I blame John Thompson. And Nolan Richardson.

Others have different opinions on that, but if you deny that athletes are tremendously more talented than they were 40 years ago, you haven't been paying attention. Or haven't been around that long.

geokstr said...

Don't raise the basket, cut a hole in the floor instead and they'd soon be recruiting only midgets, who have been discriminated against for too long. Vertically-challenged of the world, unite!

Baron Zemo said:
If you did it in football they would have leather helmets and no facemasks and lots of spinal cord injuries.


One of the major reasons for head injuries now is that defensive players believe they have no need to worry about using their helmets as spears since the innovation of the face-mask, and that led the many bizarre rules today to protect offensive players (plus the fan desire for more points.)

There has been serious conversation around the league now and then to ban face masks, as the defense would be much less inclined to lead with their heads, and would have to go back to the old wrapping the legs techniques of making tackles.

ampersand said...

Make it a moving basket. Somewhat like that cat toy as seen on TV.

Amartel said...

Leave the rim at the same height that everyone's used to and release a bear or a lion onto the court during the game. Basketball is only slightly more fun to watch than soccer.

Methadras said...

I don't like basketball so I don't give a shit.

AllenS said...

I'm sorry, but I'll have to plead the 5th on all questions about basketball.

Lem said...

Barry will push federal legislation to mandate the lowering of the rim until he can do better than 2-22 at the free throw line.

It figures that Obama would be pushing for the complete opposite of whatever it is that is needed.

John Lynch said...

This is the same discussion that goes on about video games every day. Players adapt to the game as it is, but it's OK to ask if the game should be the way it is.

Generally, I think that when the game evolves into a deeper, more skillful game then change is good. When it becomes simpler and dumbed-down that is bad.

I don't know enough about basketball to have an opinion about where that game is at.

Chef Mojo said...

Raise the baskets just to fuck with their heads.

No, I don't much like basketball, either.

Original Mike said...

Baron: "The level of play is far superior to what it was in the sixties or seventies."

Lem: "From my perspective, and I'm not a basketball fan, you are making the case for a change."


Lem has it right. If the athletes improve, you should make the game harder. Raise the rim and increase the size of the court.

I see the same thing in hockey. A lot of college teams play on an Olympic size rink; 100 feet wide. But their skills, passing in particular, aren't up to it. You get to the pros and they play on a rink only 85 feet wide; much too small for big, fast, highly-skilled athletes. It turns me off to the pro game.

Pogo said...

Make it Calvinball.

bagoh20 said...

A better solution is a 3 tier scoring.

Shots from the paint are worth 1 point. Done. Leave the hardware alone.

virgil xenophon said...

@edutcher. You're wrong about Wilt. The young Wilt was a helluva all-round athlete. In college at Kansas he ran the 440 hurdles and often led the fast-break on the BB court. You should watch his old films. You're probably thinking of the older, heavier, less mobile Wilt at the end of his career with the Lakers.

dreams said...

I don't want the height changed, I think tradition is important. Plus, ten feet high is still high for most basketball players who aren't and never will be college or pro players.

marvin said...

"A better solution is a 3 tier scoring.

Shots from the paint are worth 1 point. Done. Leave the hardware alone."

Basketball would turn into a game of keep away where the ball gets passed around a circle until someone frees up beyond the 3 point line. Great way to make the game spectacularly unwatchable.

Carlos Zimm said...

As someone who has watched and played basketball for a long time I do see the point that is being made about not knowing the basics. BUT its not something that can really be changed. There are always going to be some who are better athletes and others who play the game the right way

The problem is we celebrate the athlete part far more than the players who simply make plays without the ESPN factor. And good luck changing that. In the pro game even the REFS buy into that the way games are called. Look at some of the absurd calls stars get vs non stars. Its all about the marketing.

There are still 4 teams left playing for the NBA championship and I would say 3 of them are far better teams at the fundamentals than the last one is. And yet 80% of the coverage will go to the Heat not the Grizzlies,Spurs, or Pacers.

Baron Zemo said...

Look you guys are just filthy racists. Finally we have something that African Americans can excel at and you want to change the rules!

We need to acknowledge the superiority of certain peoples in certain endeavors in which they are destined to excel.

The Jews handle the money.

The Irish are in charge of drinking and poetry.

The Italians handle food and organized crime.

The Mexicans handle lawn work and anything you need done from stuff you get at Home Depot.

And the African Americans have basketball, dancing, shucking, jiving and making pancakes.

You have to give the devil his due.

Patrick said...

You could say the baskets should be raised, because the original height was just happenstance, and nothing profound. Or you could say they should not be changed,

And if someone hasn't already written this, you could say "who gives a rat's rear end?"

Baron Zemo said...

The base canard about basketball is that the player today doesn't know the fundamentals and is playing the game only with athletic ability. The truth is that that you can be the most fundamentally sound player who ever put on a pair of shorts and still be too weak and slow to play at the NBA level. The talent just overwhelms them and they just take the rock to the hole. I know that Adolph Rupp is spinning in his grave but youse gotz to give it up.

Talent will out. It's that simple.

virgil xenophon said...

There are seeds of several other serious discussions here. The first is the obvious current bias against white American HS basketball players by college coaches. The vast majority of HS basketball stars/record-setters are white, as are the winning State Championship teams. What happens to these kids in college--and thus the pros? It is said that white players don't have the "skills" to play the game, i.e., "white men can't jump.'" OK, so how does one explain all the white/"non-black" Pro BB success stories from around the world? Is anyone going to say with a straight face that Europe, with a population roughly equivalent to the US, can produces scads of competitive white players but the US cannot? How come, how, come, how come? A: The prejudice of American coaches in producing a self-fulfilling prophecy. White players don't exist (statistically) at the college level because college coaches don't recruit white HS BB stars--stars that are otherwise good enough to set State records and lead their teams to State Championships. The mere existence of the European white NBA star in numbers gives the lie to the belief that white Americans can't cut it at the college or pro-level any more.

dcm said...

Jesus. I know that some of you people watch the game but most of you are idiots. The game at its highest level is beautiful. James, apart from being a PR nightmare, is the second best player to ever play. Raise the rim so there are fewer dunks? Dunks are a way of intimidating. I guess we need more screens and the motion offense. And I'm speaking as a twenty two year season ticket holder at Wisconsin who thinks Bo Ryan has done a hell of a job.

dreams said...

Politically incorrect but the players who don't have good fundamentals are the black players who mostly want to dunk the basketball. They want to dunk because they can due to their superior jumping ability, their superior athletism and by doing so neglect the basics whereas the less athletically gifted white player has to learn the basics if he wants to play. Raising the goal to eleven feet won't restore basic fundamentals.

Baron Zemo said...

The difference is toughness virgil.

The Europeans are tough and won't back down like the college white players will. You can still make it in the NBA if you play like Bill Laimbeer. Tough and take no prisoners. But who was the biggest most skilled college player who is the type of guy you are talking about? Christian Laettner.

If a kid is tough enough he can still make it in the NBA. Most college players choose not to tough it out. It is just the way it is.

virgil xenophon said...

PS: I agree with those who say the NHL rink is too small. But of course all the existing stadiums would have to a) be expensively altered and, b) loose fan seating. So the owners will NEVER go for that.

virgil xenophon said...

** "lose" fan seating..

Roux said...

Who cares?

ricpic said...

The game is about no defense and scoring as quickly as possible. Back in the great Knicks vs. Celtics days Bob Cousy would bring the ball slowly up court and call for any one of at least six or seven set plays which would then unfold successfully or not, the most beautiful conclusion of all being the Bill Sharman fade away jumper. Same on the other side with Walt Frazier directing like a general. Now it's all selfish bang bang crap.

Needless to say I don't know what the eff I'm talking about but I've got memories!

Original Mike said...

"Dunks are a way of intimidating."<

Yep. Turns me off.

Baron Zemo said...

It is simply a lie to say that most black players lack the fundamentals. They have them drilled into them from their first day in pee wee ball. The thing is that they just ignore them in service of their athletic ability.

It is the job of the coach to get them to subjugate their innate ability to the team concept. That is what you have to do when you have inferior talent. When you have the talent you can just roll the ball out on the court and sit back and rub your beard and play with your glasses.

You know the full Phil Jackson.

Mark O said...

Bill Russell, Greatest of All Time.

Baron Zemo said...

Bill Russell. Greatest of his time.

I don't think that there is any dispute that Michael Jordan is the greatest of all time.

As much as I hate his fucking guts.

Baron Zemo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Baron Zemo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dreams said...

If they raised the goal to eleven feet, I think small black players like Louisville's Russ Smith and Peyton Siva who are at most 5'11" or 6' tall wouldn't be able to dunk but dunks by the small players are the more exciting dunks in my opinion.

Baron Zemo said...

You know I love nostalgia too.

I wish we were back in the days when all the cops were big bluff good natured Irishman and all the singers on the radio were Italian guys from Jersey and all the comics were Jewish dudes from the Catskills.

But those days are gone forever buddy.

We have to live in 2013.

dreams said...

"It is simply a lie to say that most black players lack the fundamentals."

Its not a lie but a difference of opinion and I've based my opinion from having followed basketball for over fifty years.

virgil xenophon said...

@the Baron/
I'll concede there is some of that, but I still vehemently maintain it is because of the prejudice of college coaches in recruiting. The same goes for whites at the "skill" positions in football. In a four period in the 60s, two All_American LSU football-players, Johnny Robinson and Jerry Stovall (runner-up in Heisman to Oregon's Terry Baker who never even made it into pro-ball as he was cut) BOTH became All-Pro defensive corner-backs for the KC Chiefs and the St. Louis Cardinals respectively. Today, Pro coaches wouldn't even give them a second look. You should check out the data that has been accumulated at a site called "Caste Football." on prejudicial selection by coaches both at the pro and college level (i.e., sitting white atheletes with better measurable times, skills, etc on the pine in favor of less-skilled black athletes, then be "amazed" when they out-perform when given the chance due to injury, etc.)--it'll water your eyes..

The bottom line as to what explains such behavior by coaches? 1) They have come to believe the myths about blacks at the "skill" positions and 2) blacks have come to believe that the "skilled" positions are "theirs" to such an extent that coaches don't want to upset black-dominated teams by starting a white in front of a "brother" in such a "high status" position. I could give numerous examples like Wes Welker who was initially told by "expert" pro-scouts that he couldn't play the pro game, but there isn't time. Go read at the site.

dreams said...

"I don't think that there is any dispute that Michael Jordan is the greatest of all time."

That is your opinion but some people who were around and watched Oscar Robertson play think he is best all time.

Baron Zemo said...


Sorry I didn't mean to say it was a lie in that sense that you lied.
I do think it is an untruth.
It is like saying white players are "smarter" than "black" players. They don't say it as blatantly as they used to but that is still the line that the announcers ply. When was the last time you heard an announcer say a black dude was a really smart basketball player?

It happens just as much as when they call a white guy an imposing physical athlete. Almost never.

(Sorry for implying that you lied. I did not mean that personally)

Crunchy Frog said...

Dwight Howard can't hit a fucking free throw now. You want to make it harder?

God save us from idiots that want to "fix" everything.

marvin said...

"The game is about no defense and scoring as quickly as possible."

Scoring's well down from it's peak in the mid 80's. Teams averaged ~ 110 ppg then. This season, they averaged ~ 98 ppg. This is after all the changes to rulebook to make scoring easier...

Baron Zemo said...

I know you are a fan and I saw Oscar play many times and he is a great player. But my view is that championships determine who is the best.

That is why Bill Russell and Jordan are the discussion.

Oscar couldn't win until he got Kareem. Just like Magic.

Jordan had Scotty fuckin Pippin. A bigger dog couldn't win the National Westminster Kennel show.

(of course it is all personal opinion and I respect yours)

Baron Zemo said...

Actually I think there is too much defense in the NBA right now. The clutching and the grabbing and the fouls are what is bring down the game.

I blame Pat Riley and what he did with my Knicks as well as the old Pistons.

I want to see old time ABA basketball like the Kentucky Colonels and the Virgina Squires played back in the day. Now that shit was fun.

virgil xenophon said...

Another reason white Europeans are successfull in the NBA is that in Europe the game is still coached, played and refereed as a team game the way the college game was in the 60s--as opposed to the typical 2-man isolation pro game. As a result they arrive in the NBA with the full range of basic skills and are far ahead of their US contemporaries. (I've heard numerous pro NBA scouts "diplomatically"/very carefully allude to this fact on numerous radio sports-talk shows.)

Baron Zemo said...

Look for a tough Eastern European kid you have two choices.

Play basketball.

Or kidnap somebody in Liam Neesons family.

So all the tough kids end up in the NBA.

Original Mike said...

"Dwight Howard can't hit a fucking free throw now. You want to make it harder?"

Good point. It's hard to argue for the awesomeness of today's players when they can't hit the basket 15 feet away.

Baron Zemo said...

You know who was one of the smartest players I ever saw play who did more with the team he had than anybody else?

Isiah Thomas.

Baron Zemo said...

I know Original Mike. It's a shame we don't have free throw shooters like Wilt or Chris Dudley anymore.

The game has gone to pot.

Baron Zemo said...

Jeeez.

I have to go.

I think I am channeling Ritmo or something.

Sorry.

Henry said...

Oh bullshit.

Good teams do all that stuff. Bad teams don't.

What Newell is really objecting to is the isolation play, which has nothing to do with the height of the rim. The isolation play puts the ball in the hands of a talented guard -- Durant, Lebron, Bryant, Harden -- while the other players clear out and look to cut on the shot. That's why proper spacing is gone.

And proper fundamentals in shooting?

In the 50s, players were jacking up two handed set shots and missing most of them. The theory was that the team that made the most shots won.

Bob Cousy's career shooting percentage as .375.

He did not have a single season -- not one -- where he shot more than .397.

Dr Weevil said...

It's obviously fundamentally unfair that some people are so much taller than others, but modern technology allows a totally egalitarian solution: have the basket be always 4' above the measured standing height of whoever is taking the shot. It would slide up and down as possession changes, but a six-footer would have the traditional 10-foot basket, while a seven-footer would have to get the ball into an 11-foot basket, and a midget might get a 7-foot basket, which would just as big a challenge and therefore totally fair.

If there were some way to accurately measure general athletic ability - sureness of eye, steadiness of hand, that kind of thing - further refinements would be possible. The hoop could expand and sit still for the blind and the shaky, while shrinking slightly and jiggling front to back or side to side at random intervals for the keen-eyed and stead-handed.

And all this could be enforced by highly-paid government inspectors!

Left Bank of the Charles said...

How about lowering the basket? But the height advantage does not have to do just with the ability to dunk. It also has to do with the ability to shoot over a defender and to block a shot.

Original Mike said...

Increase the diameter of the ball by an inch.

Joe said...

What if each coach is given a dozen golf balls and is allowed to throw them at opposing players?

Or we place a wall of spikes under the basket?

Or the basket moves around.

virgil xenophon said...

LOL, I have to agree with BZ@6:44. When ya got the horses you don't need much else. You can have a pair of offensive tackles with the greatest fundamentals in the world, but if they both weigh 155lbs soaking wet and stand 5'81/2" tall all else is pretty irrelevant.

Bender said...

Thomas was a putz. It was Dumars who was responsible for winning the championships, and the enforcers helped too.

virgil xenophon said...

People here are also forgetting the lax defense, high-scoring college game of the late 50-early 60s where college teams regularly scored in the 100s and 55-48 half-time scores were common. Remember the ""Hurryin' Hoosiers" of Jimmy Rayel fame where they would often lose or win by scores like 114-111? Or Purdue's Rick Mount who never took a shot that wouldn't be beyond the pro 3-pt-line today? And who scored 2323 pts in 3yrs (freshmen couldn't play then) with no 3-pt line and STILL shot a career 51.5 % from the field?

Methadras said...

Baron Zemo said...

Actually I think there is too much defense in the NBA right now. The clutching and the grabbing and the fouls are what is bring down the game.

I blame Pat Riley and what he did with my Knicks as well as the old Pistons.

I want to see old time ABA basketball like the Kentucky Colonels and the Virgina Squires played back in the day. Now that shit was fun.


The NBA has completely given up on calling traveling at all. You see these guys talking a stroll to the rim, 3, 4, 5 steps.

Methadras said...

marvin said...

"A better solution is a 3 tier scoring.

Shots from the paint are worth 1 point. Done. Leave the hardware alone."

Basketball would turn into a game of keep away where the ball gets passed around a circle until someone frees up beyond the 3 point line. Great way to make the game spectacularly unwatchable.


The game is already turning into 3 point mania, which the occasional dunk on for emphasis. Kill the shot clock by half, and make half court shots 5 pointers. Watch what happens.

Methadras said...

Bender said...

Thomas was a putz. It was Dumars who was responsible for winning the championships, and the enforcers helped too.


I see Dumarz as the prototype of what Scotty Pippen was to MJ.

BaltoHvar said...

Scoring averages have not changed since I started watching 50-sum years ago, except for the dunk-ban post Alcindor.

When the game/score averages start breaking out consistently, then maybe.

Paddy O said...

Raise the rim, that'll make it as exciting as the WNBA!

EMD said...

Change the travelling rule back to 1.5 steps rather than raise the rim.

EMD said...

Change the travelling rule back to 1.5 steps rather than raise the rim.

dcm said...

The game at its highest level is the best it has ever been. The crap that is the regular season, which is way too long, is unwatchable. People complain but the game now is beautiful at this point in the season. James and Wade can be poetry. As was Jordan. A brutal poetry.

Paddy O said...

I'd argue that the NBA was at its peak in the 80s and early 90s. Bird, Magic, Jordan, and a much wider cast of varied characters. The rim was the same height. So, what was it?

Lem said...

Raise the rim, that'll make it as exciting as the WNBA!

I was going to call you for traveling or something like that... but at barely 100 comments, I want to commend you for your gallant effort.

DADvocate said...

False dichotomy. There are plenty of other arguments on whether or not the rim should be raised.

DADvocate said...

I'd argue that the NBA was at its peak in the 80s and early 90s. Bird, Magic, Jordan, and a much wider cast of varied characters. The rim was the same height. So, what was it?

Good question. Those three guys were absolute masters at doing something you didn't expect, or didn't think possible. For Bird and Johnson, and a lesser degree Jordon, what the did other than scoring, passing, ball handling, defense... was as amazing as their ability to score.

betamax3000 said...

Now that Traveling is a legal part of the Game we should simply move closer to Rugby: Full Contact allowed in Half-Court. Scrums at the Key. Tackles in the Paint. Elbow to the Solar Plexus: Well Played.

betamax3000 said...

No Rim-job jokes?

Is this not America?

betamax3000 said...

Total Team Height Limit on Court: five players, 415 inches. Parcel them out as the Coach wishes. Will add excitement to the NBA draft -- you will need some short players to average out the behemoths.

Also: groin-punches OK.

marvin said...

"The game is already turning into 3 point mania, which the occasional dunk on for emphasis. Kill the shot clock by half, and make half court shots 5 pointers. Watch what happens."

Long as they can make half court shots at a clip of 20%, I'd expect a lot of half court shots. If they can make 25-30%, I'd expect almost all shots to be half court shots.

Really, the death of the midrange shot is simple statistics. Short range shots are converted at ~ 55% (1.1 pt/att), mid range shots are converted at ~ 38% (0.76 pt/att), 3s are converted at ~ 35% (1.05 pt/att).

When the best midrange shooters (45-50% from mid range, ~ .95 - 1 pts/att) are somewhat less effective offensively than average short range and 3 shooters, it's no surprise that the mid-range shot is a dying art.

Really, I can see two solutions to this. A) Increase the point value of mid range shots (make them, say 2.75 pts/bucket). B) Remove the 3 second rule and eliminate corner 3s.

Lem said...

I thought basketball was for the stars to sit on the stands and pretend to be regular people.

I have so little respect for the sport I cant even summon the will to make fun of it.

But hey... that's just me, I'm not casting aspersions.

Original Mike said...

"Raise the rim, that'll make it as exciting as the WNBA!"

Too late.

betamax3000 said...

Re: "Total Team Height Limit on Court: five players, 415 inches. "

Make it 330 inches. Teams can field 5 on court, or 4, or 3 -- whatever fits.

Get some 5-on-3 hockey action....

.

betamax3000 said...

Re: "I'm not casting aspersions."

I didn't know you were into Dungeons and Dragons.

betamax3000 said...

Marv Albert B-Ball.

From Deadspin: "Fourteen years ago, we couldn't have expected Marv—then 56, charged with forcible sodomy and assault of a longtime female acquaintance, tried in a three-day proceeding that revealed his fetishes for biting, male-male-female threesomes and ladies' underwear, found guilty of a lesser charge, and fired by NBC—"

NBA biting as part of a Half-Court Press, Ladies' Underwear on LeBron...

Lem said...

I don't even know what I'm doing here... waiting for a café that never comes probably... who knows, what difference does an umbrella make at this point.

The Red Sox had two men on base with nobody out in the eight and the rain came... After Carp hit a fly ball to center, instead of bunting the runners over, Big papi hit a little grounder into the first basement's glove for a rally killing double play.

I cant say for certain that they quit because of the rain... but the images of the umbrellas and the speed with which the Red Sox were dispatched after such a promising start to the inning...

When it rains... it rains penny's from heaven.

betamax3000 said...

Re: "I don't even know what I'm doing here... waiting for a café that never comes probably.."

Me too.

betamax3000 said...

If you aggressively pixellated a WNBA Game would you think you were watching a Junior High School Game?

Lem said...

I guess I should mention we lost to Obamas Chicago White Sox... not that that means anything to me... not at all.

betamax3000 said...

Headlines from a Google search of "leBron James rim job"

• Roy Hibbert Stuffs Carmelo Anthony at the Rim

• LEBRON JAMES Shaky Rim Shots Is Why He Faked Leg Cramps ?

• Nate Robinson rejects LeBron James at the rim

• Miami Heat's LeBron James vows to attack rim

• Better finisher at the rim: Julius Erving or LeBron James?

and -- my favorite --

• Miami Heat's LeBron James works on floaters

Hence: Jason Collins wasn't the First.

betamax3000 said...

Cafe Rim Job: it really is about a Peach Basket.

Lem said...

Is WNBA a Wikipedia category?

Lem said...

By putting a W in Front of NBA the NBA is ghettoizing? the women.

I cant believe Obama is allowing this to happen.

betamax3000 said...

I am waiting for the Lem "Rimjob" playlist.

betamax3000 said...

OK, I didn't click on it, but thee is a page for:

RIM JOB BOYS | Free Music, Tour Dates, Photos, Videos - MySpace

I guess Boys being "Backstreet" wasn't far enough.


Lem said...

Ok, maybe just one time...

Blow Danny.

betamax3000 said...

Re: Ok, maybe just one time...

Blow Danny."


Rick James seems to have a Pearl Necklace on his Hair. It must be Special Effects.

Lem said...

I notice a missing tooth.

betamax3000 said...

J. J. Abrams: Lens Flare

J. J. Abrams p*rn: Glans Flare.

betamax3000 said...

Re: "I notice a missing tooth."

Bobby Peru?

betamax3000 said...

Re: "J. J. Abrams: Lens Flare

J. J. Abrams p*rn: Glans Flare."

I should have posted this on a Geekier Site: I'd be rolling in the Thumbs Up.

Lem said...

Did Defoe seem to enjoy that role or what?

betamax3000 said...

Look up "rimjobia" on Google: it is a Wonderful Foreign Hodge-Podge.

Lem said...

I cant do that... I'm in enough trouble with the IRS.

betamax3000 said...

Re: "Did Defoe seem to enjoy that role or what?"

He acted out his Heart, ignoring his deformed teeth -- which probably relates to him acting his Heart out in his Early Years but not getting the Part because he was a Strange-Looking Dude. He was throwing it in the Face of all the Casting Directors he had to deal with: Yes -- not only can I be strange-looking and sexy but -- I can be strange-looking and sexy with fish-grime teeth, and It Still Works.

Lem said...

You mean those were his real teeth?

I thought those were fake.

betamax3000 said...

RE: "Look up "rimjobia" on Google: it is a Wonderful Foreign Hodge-Podge."

Just to clarify: I don't often type "Rimjobia". I was waiting for Ann's Alphabetical Country posts, but we never got there.

Nor Phuckstanistan.

betamax3000 said...

Re: "You mean those were his real teeth?"

I think they were fake. Just the rest of him was real.

Lem said...

He could have been better in that movie with Madonna... but I think she got in his way somehow... it was Her show or something.

betamax3000 said...

For the Playlist:

Luna's "Bobby Peru":

The night that you insulted me
I lay awake thinkin'
Clever things I could have said
My thoughts kept turning to Bobby Peru
How would he handle this one?

betamax3000 said...

Re: "He could have been better in that movie with Madonna... but I think she got in his way somehow... it was Her show or something."

Madonna is the Black Vacuum of Co-Stars: hell, she starred in movies with (husband-at-the-time) Sean Penn and made him Inconsequential.

I really wish Every Sean Penn Movie co-starred Madonna -- the Academy would take the Bastard's Oscars away on Principle.

Lem said...

I just thought of a better headline for this post.

"Why not raise the titanic, to restore basketball to its proper form?"

Lem said...

lol..

Lem said...

I was laughing at the Madonna Penn comment.

betamax3000 said...

When they played Basketball on the Titanic they STILL didn't call the Iceberg for Traveling.

betamax3000 said...

Re: "When they played Basketball on the Titanic they STILL didn't call the Iceberg for Traveling."

I soooo Jay-Leno'ed that.

Lem said...

Poor Jay... all that money and STILL no respect.

betamax3000 said...

We are here to make the Early-To-Bed People* have something to read in the Morning.

*your time-zone may vary.

Lem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lem said...

i'm going to have to delete that.

betamax3000 said...

I feel like the Black Sheep. I love the Allen S's, the Lems, the AriDogs and the Traditional Guys and the Bagohs. I think I may frustrate some of them with excessive (stupid) posts, but they get my brain running with their comments. So I bare my Bobby Peru teeth and ask for a Chiclet.

betamax3000 said...

Re: "I'm going to have to delete that."

I'd respond in kind but I can't delete from Wordpress. Which is why I took Wordpress specifically to comment on Althouse: I have no Delete Function, my Car has No Reverse.

Lem said...

Its good to know what your roll is I suppose...

I was aimless when I first got here... and some people found me exasperating? too.

betamax3000 said...

I Will Not Rest until someone types "Rimjobia" into Google and doesn't Get Immediately Directed to the Althouse portal.

Lem said...

I have no Delete Function, my Car has No Reverse.

Brave?

I suspect one you are accepted or whatever if that is what you want... you are going to change that.

betamax3000 said...

Rimjobia Althouse:

a Re-Direct from the Portugese Writer Meade Alingua.

Lem said...

I've heard of a Lantigua in Lawrence of all places...

Are you titus Betamax?

Lem said...

confess.

betamax3000 said...

Re:
"I have no Delete Function, my Car has No Reverse.

Brave?

I suspect one you are accepted or whatever if that is what you want... you are going to change that.

Don't think so.
Spent years reading Althouse (and the corresponding commenters), spent months getting up the nerve to join. Decided on No Edit. If I can think twice I won't move at all. I'll save the Bipolar Details for a Cafe where Ann says "Biploar Betamax, Tell me the Details". Note: better be on a Saturday Morning -- can't comment from work.



Breathing Room.

betamax3000 said...

Re" "Are you titus Betamax?"

I am not that Focused.

betamax3000 said...

Re" "Are you titus Betamax?"

I am not a Stool pigeon.









(quiet golf clap)



Lem said...

lol.

betamax3000 said...

If only Tiger Woods got the "(quiet golf clap)" he'd still be married.

Penicillin on Rice,



Lem said...

Decided on No Edit. If I can think twice I won't move at all.

There are some smart people here and at first I diluted myself into thinking I could be a part of...

But I was enjoying myself... cant beat that.

Lem said...

quiet golf clap..

The double entendres... that's a good one btw.



betamax3000 said...

Re: "But I was enjoying myself... cant beat that. "

Amen.

Double-down on That, sir.

I get the Night Terrors, so much of what I write comes from the Fear of Sleep. I sometimes think that Ms. Althouse wakes at Three AM and reads the Comments to Fight the Fear. Of course, I Project.

Lem said...

"You got to serve somebody"

Now if only I could penetrate those Dylan lyrics..

betamax3000 said...

Re: "Now if only I could penetrate those Dylan lyrics.."

Penetrate? I broke the Hymen on those lyrics.

betamax3000 said...

Dylan: Hymen
Hymen: Dylan

I will not mention "Blood on the Tracks" except to mention "Blood on the Tracks".

Lem said...

Althouse is always going back to those. At this point Its like rebellion.. not to know anything about them. which Is the opposite effect of I want, countering that a professor doesn't look kindly on willful ignorance, even if it poses as 'rebellion'.

Lem said...

Hymen?

Not like the heimlich maneuver..

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Because "dead to the core is hillarious"

Lem said...

There is also Jesses Jacksons don't let me down.

that would not make it on the air today.

betamax3000 said...

I don't think the Pose is "Rebellion": the Pose is Crate-and-Barrel-Abbercrombie-and-Fitch-and-Young.

By adding "and-Young" I made a Counter-Culture Comment about the Un-Counter-Culture. By the Time I got to Woodstock I was Joni Mitchell's Eye Candy.

Lem said...

I'm too old to rebel.

Rabel's Bolero.

Now those were a pair of tits.

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Lem said...

oh Ravel's Bolero.

that's another thing. I don't have command.. remand.. so I have check words all the time.. that's why I cant have a car with no brakes.

Lem said...

Ravel Bolero

betamax3000 said...

Bo Derek reference. If I mentally Photoshop Dudley Moore out of the Frame I am my Fourteen-Year-Old Self.

If I Photoshop Dudley Moore back in then there is Liza Minelli.

I cannot masturbate to Liza Minelli.

Nor could David Guest.



NotquiteunBuckley said...

"Why not" other than Bud Dry:

Read em an weep

Lem said...

I Photoshop in Susan Anton.

betamax3000 said...

Re: NotquiteunBuckley said...

"Why not" other than Bud Dry:

Read em an weep

Rick Danko's Voice Breaks My Heart.

Thank you.

betamax3000 said...

Re: "Susan Anton."

You are pulling Images from my Memory bank and making me stare at them. Like, really stare at them.



(Morgan Fairchild)

Lem said...

A doll with a voice.

by doll I mean beautiful.

betamax3000 said...

And tall: 5 ft 11 in (1.80 m)*


(*which sorta brings us back to basketball)

Lem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
betamax3000 said...

My Voice-Activated Pants are telling me to Go To Bed.

Never argue with Voice-Activated Pants.


Lem said...

Yea... I got to work tomorrow. Night.

betamax3000 said...

Susan Anton:

In 1978, ABC gave her and country singer Mel Tillis a summertime variety series, Mel and Susan Together, produced by the Osmond Brothers. The pairing of Anton and Tillis was an unlikely one: he was popular in country music circles but hardly a national household name while Susan was barely known at all. The show disappeared after four weeks....

JohnG said...

Here's my proposal: every year, calculate the average points per side per game over the entire season. If that value is over 86, raise the basket another inch. If less, lower it by an inch. Why 86? Same reason as 10ft.

L.J.E said...

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Paco Wové said...

"Titus Betamax" sounds like a character from one of those old swords-and-sandals epic films. Probably a second-string gladiator.

jim murray said...

Now I prefer to watch women play basketball because they have to cut, pass and screen more than the taller men. I also prefer to watch women play softball because I can see the ball better. I also prefer to watch women play tennis because volleys last longer. Hmmm, do you think that maybe I just like to watch women.

ErnieG said...

Why not raise the basket to at least fifteen feet, and reduce its diameter? This would accomplish two things. It would make scores more like soccer or hockey, and it would give short white guys a chance.

Tank said...

Lower the basket to nine feet and make dunking mandatory.

My daughters play in co-ed soccer leagues where it's mandatory to have 3 women on the field at all times. They could do the same in basketball. Or, require three white guys on the court at all times. Then the basket can stay where it is.

Tibore said...

There are times I've wondered if changing the height and making other modifications would have a beneficial impact on the game. For example, I've heard coaches advocate for lowered goals for young children learning the game, so that they don't learn bad habits. I'd wonder if raising the hoop and shrinking the rim for pros would change the game for the better by making things more difficult. It's an interesting thing to ponder.

And after seeing quite a bit of interior clogging in both NCAA and pro games, I've wondered if widening either the lane or the entire court plus the lane would also be of benefit. It has the potential to open passing lanes, reduce interior clogging, and open the game up, but at the same time that's only a potential; there's no guarantee it would result in that. It's something I've thought about enough to where I think the results can only be observed, not predicted.

Weird thing is, I'm an Indiana University fan dating all the way back to the 80s, and it's weird to ponder these thoughts because you'll still find people in this fanbase who are against the shot clock and 3 point line (I myself hate NCAA "alternate possessions". When there's a jump ball, jump the damn ball, and to hell with the notion that it works out even anyway). So being way outside the box by thinking about changing the basics of goal height and floor dimensions is really different.

Joe Schmoe said...

Yes, let's rejigger the whole frickin' sport around the couple hundred players in the country who can consistently dunk a basketball in game conditions. Because Lord knows there aren't thousands and thousands of Division 2 and 3 college players who will never perform an in-game dunk in their entirely too-brief careers.

gerry said...

If they raise the baskets, will made-to-order embryos evolve eleven-feet-tall players?

gerry said...

Lower the basket to nine feet and make dunking mandatory.

I misread that as "Lower the basket to nine feet and make drinking mandatory."

That has possibilities.

jr565 said...

They should electrify the net so that every time someone dunks they get a shock. Not enough to kill them but enough to make them not want to slam every basket. Other ideas, trap doors in the floor with spiked pits underneath that open randomly..
Other ideas, give all players jet packs and play the game up in the air so tht players have to shoot down at the basket from up in the sky. But you still have to dribble the ball.

Give the crowd water guns and let them shoot at the players as they're running back and forth. Or better, paint ball guns. And if you get your color on the player the fan gets to swap positions with the player for five minutes. If he doesn't get at least one basket in those five minutes the team can hold him down piss on his face.
Fan participation! Or how about if we make Basketball Baseketball, like the Trey Parker movie from back in the 90s

Who knows? I can't stand basketball. It should only be two periods not four. Even though baseball is the slower game, I'm much more interested in the drama that plays out there.

khesanh0802 said...

@chip s 5:02 pm.

Absolutely correct. CT v. Notre Dame is a great game. Both teams play tenacious defense, can pass the ball and can score; and there is none of the extraneous BS chest pounding that you see in the men's game. The women play hard and exhibit qualities of sportsmanship lost in too many sports these days.

Herb said...

silly proposal, kids start playing at 10 ft baskets around 4th grade. Just because the best players on the planet make it looks easy there is no reason to change the rules. They were all 4th graders, 8th graders, in high school and had to learn the fundamentals. I also believe everyone bemoans what they view as lack fundamentals and forgets that there are world class players playing defense as well.

Max Alway-Townsend said...

No, i don't think so, it would make the game allot less dazzling without allot of players being able to dunk.