May 2, 2013

"Howard Kurtz leaves Daily Beast following Jason Collins column mistake."

Kurtz, whose area of expertise is media criticism, made a mistake in the media that drew some criticism and what looks like swift retaliation.
... Kurtz mistakenly accused Collins of leaving out “one detail” in Collins’s Sports Illustrated essay disclosing his homosexuality. The detail, Kurtz said, was that Collins “was engaged. To be married. To a woman.”...

Kurtz initially amended his Daily Beast story, saying Collins “downplayed” the engagement and “didn’t dwell on it.” But the Daily Beast retracted the story entirely after the mistake and subsequent amendments drew heavy criticism from several Web sites.
IN THE COMMENTS: Bill said:
But Collins did attempt to obscure his engagement. This is what he wrote: "When I was younger I dated women. I even got engaged."

That sure sounds like someone who got engaged young, not someone who cancelled a wedding at the age of about 30 after an eight year relationship. While his statement was technically true (everything in our past was when we were younger), it had to have been intentionally misleading, especially coming from a Stanford grad.
I agree, and you put that so much better than Kurtz did in his correction. This is an important basis for criticism of Collins, who's being hailed as a hero. Giving up on living a lie is a good idea, but it's not heroic. Maybe 30 years ago, it was heroic to be openly gay, but even back then, if you chose to keep your sexual orientation quiet, it was still wrong to delude another person to the extent that Collins apparently did. Collins graduated from Stanford in 2001, and it's just ridiculous that someone who lived in that environment at that time — he roomed with Joe Kennedy and was friends with Chelsea Clinton — would be seriously burdened with backward ideas about sexual orientation. I'll refrain from lambasting the man for his deceit and cowardice, but extolling him as a hero is absurd. I think that's what Kurtz might have wanted to say, but he botched his attack.

It would be interesting to know which powerful Democrats, if any, interacted with Tina Brown over the downfall of Howard Kurtz.

245 comments:

1 – 200 of 245   Newer›   Newest»
Barry Dauphin said...

But Tina Brown wishes him well...

Mark O said...

Add to this the insult that Collins is not even the first acknowledged gay man in team professional sports (so many qualifiers).

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/05/actually-jason-collins-isnt-the-first-openly-gay-man-in-a-major-pro-sport/275523/

mesquito said...

Well. That was fast. If you screw up don't do it while criticizing the gay Jackie Robinson.

ricpic said...

Zero tolerance for the less than perfectly in synch fellow goose stepper.

Lem said...

In its retraction, the Daily Beast said Kurtz’s piece contained several errors, “resulting in a misleading characterization” of Collins. It said it “sincerely regrets Kurtz’s error — and any implication that Collins attempted to hide or obscure the engagement.”

So, in retracting what the Daily Beast characterizes as a misleading characterization of Collins they themselves fail to pin point clearly what factual errors Kurtz's committed.

The firing looks suspicious, for a journalist of Kurt's caliber to commit rookie misstates like that.

There is something they aren't telling.

Lem said...

If you screw up don't do it while criticizing the gay Jackie Robinson.

Althouse pointed out the powerful friends Collins has.

Somebody pulled a string.

Mark said...

This isn't Kurtz's first big fail, but his attempt to rewrite his story without mentioning that post-edit is what will haunt him.

Just apologize. Delete never works once you hit 'publish' on the internet. Silly dinosaur.

traditionalguy said...

Blasphemy of Holy Gays is being set up as we watch, and Kurtz missed the most important party line since an old u-tube started the massacre ii Benghazi. For the time being, Mr.Kurtz is now vacationing in Siberian resorts.

The Obama two step starts with step 1 making being gay a protected status. It then ends with making Christianity illegal.

Got that, Kurtz?

cold pizza said...

Somebody pulled a string.


I'm not sure it was a string that was pulled. Just sayin'. -CP

edutcher said...

Yes, he has now become non-person. His image will be removed from all pictures with Fearless Leader and his name will not be spoken again.

Welcome to the party, pal!

AprilApple said...

Was Brian Ross ever fired?

Lem said...

In firing Kurtz The Daily Beast may have inadvertently added fuel to the fire.

I'm going to tell you how this looks like it went down.

Beast wanted Kurtz to retract key, double and triple checked facts of the story and Kurtz balked.

Kurtz refused to Photoshop it.

Word came back to Beast to "fix it". Beast had no choice but to fire Kurtz and pull the story altogether.

Collins wants to go places and Kurtz was getting in the way.

Marshal said...

ricpic said...
Zero tolerance for the less than perfectly in synch fellow goose stepper.


Firing seems an overreaction. I wonder if he quit. There seem to be a number of journalists who have less than high opinions of Brown (Kaus in particular), maybe he thought he shouldn't be second guessed.

Or maybe it was an excuse:

But sources at The Daily Beast also tell POLITICO that Kurtz was dropped in part because he had been dedicating much of his time to other ventures, including The Daily Download, a media criticism site. Kurtz also hosts a weekend media criticism show on CNN called "Reliable Sources."

Bill said...

But Collins did attempt to obscure his engagement.
This is what he wrote: "When I was younger I dated women. I even got engaged."
That sure sounds like someone who got engaged young, not someone who cancelled a wedding at the age of about 30 after an eight year relationship. While his statement was technically true (everything in our past was when we were younger), it had to have been intentionally misleading, especially coming from a Stanford grad.

AJ Lynch said...

Howie is just one of many many MSM librul jagoffs. That he was fired by alleged moderate and No Labels suckup John Avlon is good to hear.

Avlon, btw, is married to ex Fox commentator Martha Hoover. She and Avlon are both phony moderates who I bet have never voted for anyone but a Dem.

Patrick said...

Was Brian Ross ever fired?

No, of course not. He was wrong, but in the right direction.

He wasn't wrong wrong.

Seeing Red said...

Old white dude - persona non grata.

rhhardin said...

I thought the 8-year woman came out and said that she was rethinking things, that is, that Kurtz's apparent story was essentially true.

The guy was misleading her.

Lydia said...

Wow, that was fast.

Just as we were about to wonder what kind of jerk Collins was with regard to his former fiancĂ©, we’re now given Kurtz to scrutinize instead.

Some kind of evil genius in all this.

ed said...

All pray at the Church of the Holy Gay.

Honestly could this country possibly survive one day without some gay-centric story or some such? How did we survive 270+ frigging years without being bombarded with gay-this, gay-that nonsense?

Could I just eat my fucking waffles?

ndspinelli said...

I like Kurtz.

Big Mike said...

Given all the blunders Kurtz has committed to print over the years, why now?

Oh! He mischaracterized what a "brave hero of the left" wrote. Never mind.

furious_a said...

All that career death over an itinerant benchwarmer with career 3.6ppg/3.8rpg averages. Sigh.

chrisnavin.com said...

Stay on message Kurtz. It's Tina Brown's Daily Beast under an Obama administration under a full gay moon.

Jesus Christ!

chrisnavin.com said...

And you've got Clintons and other political hitters involved.

Jesus Christ Kurtz, think of your career!

SteveR said...

HRC

jimbino said...

Marriage benefits are conferred on those who follow the rules of their state. As far as I know, desire to have vaginal sex is not one of the requirements. Neither are sex of any kind, cohabitation, love, commitment ("death us do part"), financial sharing, procreation, or even friendship.

The only requirements seem to be that you agree to involve the state in your partnership, that neither of you is already married, of the same sex or too closely related, and that you are competent to sign the papers.

Neither of you has to have primary sex organs of any kind, much less have plans to use them, even much less have plans to stick one into the other.

creeley23 said...

Like Bill earlier said.

When I was younger I dated women. I even got engaged. I thought I had to live a certain way. I thought I needed to marry a woman and raise kids with her. I kept telling myself the sky was red, but I always knew it was blue.

That's the whole paragraph where Collins touches upon his eight-year relationship with Moos. It's like Bill Ayers saying, "I was even a student radical."

Kurtz is right -- the story was downplayed. Either the Daily Beast is in throes of absolute political correctness or serious office politics or both.

Youngblood said...

"...extolling him as a hero is absurd."

Wait, what? You haven't been paying attention during the last few decades, have you?

If a gay man does anything these days, it renders the act more heroic (or at least more noble) than it would be if anyone else did the same thing.

Michael said...

Kurtz enjoyed the "conversation" I hope.

Thorley Winston said...

I think we may be missing the real issue here which IMO is: why is Howard Kurtz or any journalist of any reknown covering such a nonsensical excuse for a “news story”? I mean was he taken off the Lindsey Lohan beat?

Achilles said...

Such is the fate of all who stand in the way of EQUALITY. First it was racism. Then sexism. Now what do they call the actions of the reprobates? And how long before another used up minority is shuffled off the pedestal for a new victim to join the parade? What happens when all of those new citizens join the African-Americans in there hatred and are considered more important? Homosexuals are a fairly small group and I expect the to be on the outs from the victim coalition in a year or two.

Greg Hlatky said...

I'm waiting for the hosannas and presidential phone calls when a Berkeley humanities professors comes out as a conservative.

creeley23 said...

Collins's story grows less impresive by the day. Here's the Sports Illustrated story behind the story:

Shortly after 8 on Easter morning, Lidz, a senior writer at Sports Illustrated from 1988 to 2007, phoned me at my home. Representatives of an active NBA player, whom they did not identify, had told Lidz that their client was considering sharing, publicly, that he was gay. While no male athlete in the U.S. playing a professional team sport had ever come out, this was not entirely surprising news. The previous week CBSSports.com had reported that efforts were afoot to pave the path for closeted NFL players to go public. Former Ravens linebacker Brendon Ayanbadejo gave further voice to that possibility during the first week of April, when he said that as many as four players were in discussions about coming out as a group.

This was not an act of courage, but a calculated career move.

However, Collins does have a great smile, big white teeth and twinkling eyes. So it all evens out.

Carol said...

The only requirements seem to be that you agree to involve the state in your partnership, that neither of you is already married, of the same sex or too closely related, and that you are competent to sign the papers.

Yet people fill in the rest, mentally..you can get an annulment for lack of consummation. But overall the laws are so inadequate. It's as if there were some other overlaying assumptions prior to the present era.

caplight45 said...

There are relatively few categories of people left that are safe to criticize with impunity. To name a few:
-Evangelical Christian White Males
-Conservative females
-Catholic priests, bishops, cardinals and popes
-Hetero white conservative athletes (double the impunity if they are Christian Evangelical
-Conservative black males who get upitty on the Liberal/Prog/Dem plantation

tiger said...

Brown was looking for an excuse to fire Kurtz and Kurtz gave her one - as flimsy as it is.

Beorn said...

Score another scalp for the standard bearers of Tolerance.

Jay said...

Man deceives woman for 8 years and the party of feminism takes to the airwaves to say how courageous he is.

I love it.

AJ Lynch said...

Collins attended college with a Clinton and a Kennedy? Then perhaps he learned to lie from two experts.

Marshal said...

Greg Hlatky said...
I'm waiting for the hosannas and presidential phone calls when a Berkeley humanities professors comes out as a conservative.


Gays in Iran will come out first.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

You mean to tell me a black homo was screwing our womenfolk, at the same damn time!? Isn't Kurtz the real hero here?

Lem said...

I mean was he taken off the Lindsey Lohan beat?

Ha!... now you sound like Brokaw.

Chase said...

It would be interesting to know which powerful Democrats, if any, interacted with Tina Brown over the downfall of Howard Kurtz.

That's easy. It came from the top Democrat Leader.

Satan.

Baron Zemo said...

Kurtz: I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a journalist. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face...it looks like Helen Thomas... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies! I remember when I was with Newsweek... seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate some children with left wing tripe. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn't know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it... I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that these were not monsters, these were men... Liberals. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment! Because it's judgment that defeats us.
(Presapolis Now, 2013)

Marshal said...

creeley23 said...
This was not an act of courage, but a calculated career move.


I think the guy should feel able to be out, but it looks to me like he's angling for a media job.

Two months ago to self: "1.5 points on 31% chooting for the worst team in the league. Not looking so good for next year. NBA guys don't know who I am, so what chance to I have at ESPN with my name recognition and Q rating. What can I do?"

Ralph L said...

I hadn't realized Kurtz had left the WaPo. Guess he isn't important anymore.

Chase said...

Isn't Kurtz the real hero here?

Why yes. Yes he is.

Thanks for pointing it out!

Lem said...

Collins attended college with a Clinton and a Kennedy? Then perhaps he learned to lie from two experts.

The story is hydrated... perhaps not as much as Chappaquiddick and White Water. But those were 'real' pros.

Jay said...

Howie Kurtz voted with liberals 99.99% of the time and they kicked him out of the club.

That's today's liberals for you.

Howie Kurtz is a principled liberal, and these fucking wackos kicked him to the curb!

Jay said...

This was not an act of courage, but a calculated career move.

Well of course, and the collective reaction is embarrassing.

Lem said...

It would be interesting to know which powerful Democrats, if any, interacted with Tina Brown...

They usually keep stuff like that off Match.com

Baron Zemo said...

Kurtz: [intercepted radio message] I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving. No matter what we did....Sarah Palin still is popular

(Presapolis Now, 2013)

Chef Mojo said...

Howie will land on his feet. There's always a place for someone like Howie.

Maybe at Salon.

garage mahal said...

Howie Kurtz voted with liberals 99.99% of the time and they kicked him out of the club.

So who did Kurtz vote for the other .01% of the time? I mean, you must know right? You would never pull a stat completely out of your ass!

Bender said...

Can we get back to the point about a "gay" man being able to get sexually aroused and have sex with a woman?

In our relativistic age, are we now redefining what "gay" means? Are we redefining what "made that way" and "not a choice" mean?

Can all men who have had sex with women now assert, "I'm gay too"?

kcom said...

"The real question will come when a gay man blows up a sporting event. Who will be the hero then? It will be a tough call for the Tina types. Ahhh... who am I kidding."

Saint Croix said...

Maybe 30 years ago, it was heroic to be openly gay, but even back then, if you chose to keep your sexual orientation quiet, it was still wrong to delude another person to the extent that Collins apparently did.

Yeah yeah, he was a gay secret agent. Maybe he didn't know he was gay! Maybe he was strugging with his sexuality.

This "born gay" dogma is ridiculous. Particularly since his twin brother is, uh, straight.

I'll refrain from lambasting the man for his deceit and cowardice but extolling him as a hero is absurd.

But casting him as deceitful cowardly villain is equally absurd. I like your old post better, when you were bored. Can we lose the drama? He used to be straight. Now he's gay. Why do we have to have heroes and villains and lies and subterfuge?

Maybe he's on a sexual journey.

You know what would be awesome? If he starts dating women again. The media would shit themselves.

gadfly said...

Kurtz is a liberal heavy hitter. He has spent his life making caustic attacks against conservatives and Republican politicians - often unfairly.

Interestingly, he leads the liberal charge on CNN - America's least-watched news network. We can all relate to their erroneous reporting on the Boston Marathon including the alleged arrest of a "dark-skinned suspect."

Kurtz said on his Reliable Sources show that "CNN owned up to the mistake, took responsibility, I think that was a good thing.”

So the man makes gaffs and irresponsible observations all the time, but that is OK unless he he makes a liberal nutcase look bad.

Rush was right. Jason Collins just wants to insure himself a roster spot in the NBA next season.

cold pizza said...

Welcome to the Heart of the Daily Beast, Kurtz. The Horror! -CP

AprilApple said...

All should be prepared for the coming mob-like media onslaught that will reign down when the pro-Hillary! pimp machine begins to grind.
Jump. Jump.

Hard questions? Screeeeeech. At this point, what diff... er.. off with your head!

James said...

Will Howie interview himself next Sunday as he discusses the week's media events on CNN?

rhhardin said...

I wonder if Kurtz knows about not burning bridges.

Always say how much you enjoyed your last job. Your next employer is thinking that that's what you'll be saying about him.

Aridog said...

Mark O ....in your cited link is all we need to know about this **New** revelation....

Major-league baseball player Glenn Burke was comfortably out to his teammates and friends in 1976—but back then, it was the press that wasn't ready for a gay male athlete.

Thanks for the link.



harrogate said...

It's *almost* as if people here just can't for the life of them understand what the big deal is about an NBA player publicly coming out of the closet.

Jay said...

This "born gay" dogma is ridiculous

The problem is, this is being taught & reinforced in public schools. Many people simply accept this as fact. They actually think "science" has proven it.

Jay said...

harrogate said...
It's *almost* as if people here just can't for the life of them understand what the big deal is about an NBA player publicly coming out of the closet.


It isn't a big deal.

It isn't as if you're trying to make a case as to why it is a big deal.

People knew Martina Navratilova was gay in 1979.

Old dogma: "Don't judge us, leave us alone"!

New Dogma: "Say we are wonderful and courageous when we tell you who we sleep with!"

Jay said...

This tells you about all you need to know about the media:

The media in general and the sports media in particular found Burke's homosexuality an inconvenient truth. He told People, "I think everyone just pretended not to hear me. It just wasn't a story they were ready to hear."

Yep, back then they weren't obsessed with the idea of proving gay people are normal.

So it didn't really matter.

Rusty said...

harrogate said...
It's *almost* as if people here just can't for the life of them understand what the big deal is about an NBA player publicly coming out of the closet.

get back to us when he becomes a point leader.
Oh. That's right. Until he came out his career was all but over.
Lets see what happens to his career now.

Palladian said...

It's *almost* as if people here just can't for the life of them understand what the big deal is about an NBA player publicly coming out of the closet.

Big fucking deal. A rich, politically-connected celebrity "comes out" in 2013 when his career is basically over and after stringing a woman along for 8 years. Oh, the courage!

Listen, I "came out" in my rural public high school in about 1991. If you want to kiss someone's ass for bravery, mine is available.

creeley23 said...

It's *almost* as if people here just can't for the life of them understand what the big deal is about an NBA player publicly coming out of the closet.

harrogate: Maybe you can explain it to us.

What risk is Collins taking, especially compared to the benefits he was competing for?

Go back and look at my 5:31 comment. Collins was negotiating ahead of time to beat out four NFL players to be the first professional sports team athlete to come out.

This is blatant careerism. He probably will force the hand of his team to keep him on for another year, when ordinarily they would have let him go because his stats are so terrible and he is so old for an NBA player. And he will go on to the next phase of his life as a gay sports celebrity, when he would have just been a has-been.

Not to mention that he led his fiancee on for eight years. This is not an admirable guy who took a principled stand.

Jason Collins is an operator.

harrogate said...

"People knew Martina Navratilova was gay in 1979."

If you think that it's the same then you simply know nothing about men's sports generally, or basketball in particular. It's been quite a long time but I still remember high school basketball, the sorts of jokes, the value systems at play, quite well. The affectations of Alpha Hetero Male are through the roof and homosexuality remains, to this day, quite a hotbutton issue just to bring up, in this culture.

But that's why I say it's *almost* as though people don't know this. Jay not knowing it is no surprise, but most here just are waxing willfully blind.

harrogate said...

Palladian,

If it was only about Jason Collins I'd agree that his connections and wealth, etc., matter. But it's not just about Jason Collins' personal life. You probably know this but are too busy with your own political affectations on these threads, to give it the thought it deserves.

As for you coming out in that situation, yes, that sounds like it took real personal courage on a level far beyond what Collins staked. But this isn't about you either.

harrogate said...

Where did I say Collins was taking a personal risk? Anyone? Anyone?

That's what I fucking thought. You are all a bunch of preeners.

Jay said...

harrogate said...

If you think that it's the same then you simply know nothing about men's sports generally, or basketball in particular.


Um, in case you missed it, Collins isn't playing basketball right now. He has no team.

Um, in case you missed it, a baseball player came out in 1982.

What is even funnier about your silly, dipshit, post, is I played sports in college.

I don't have to think back to high school.

Clown.

Palladian said...

If he wasn't taking a personal risk, what the flying fuck is so "brave" about him?

Jay said...

But it's not just about Jason Collins' personal life.

Actually, it is.

You silly little high school thinker backer you.

creeley23 said...

Where did I say Collins was taking a personal risk? Anyone?

You said it was a big deal, and usually in these situations that means someone has stepped up and taken a stand in spite of risks.

You are all a bunch of preeners.

And if you're going to act all cynical, you might get others a chance to respond before unveiling your own personal preening display.

garage mahal said...

If Collins took zero risk in coming out, and in fact, coming out may have enhanced his career path, what does that say about troglodytes like Jay and the battle they've been waging against gays for decades? Keep fighting that good fight Jay.

Jay said...

harrogate said...
Where did I say Collins was taking a personal risk?


Aw, now the silly little high school thinker backer is going to go all semantics on us.

It is "important" but you can't say why.

Don't worry, you like know more than all the current NBA starts, the NBA commissioner, and all the rest tweeting support of Collins.

Really, your high school memories are totally analogous to a current NBA locker room.

And anyone who doesn't understand this is a total homophobe.

mccullough said...

Kurtz is a media critic. He knows better than anyone why he got fired.

harrogate said...

Jay, I'll feed your idiot troll blathering maw one more time. Because it remains a candidate for the top thirty stupidest things you have ever said on Althouse, when you equate Martina coming out to an NBA player coming out.

But more to the point; it is interesting--nay, it is mildly poetic that you say you played college sports. Because add that to all the things you have said about homosexuals on these boards and, well, the nature of what Collins did is thrown into even sharper relief.

harrogate said...

I wonder why other NBA players have not come out before Collins did if it is no big deal. Where are the NFL players, the MLB players, the NHL players?

Or are you all idiots like Phil Jackson who did his best Iranian imitation and said only a couple months ago that there were no gay players in the NBA?

Jay said...

hat does that say about troglodytes like Jay and the battle they've been waging against gays for decades?

When you're dependent on your state check for you meds and it isn't coming until tomorrow, you make comments like that.

Jay said...

when you equate Martina coming out to an NBA player coming out.

It is beyond comical you are claiming some insider NBA knowledge.

You are a fucking joke.

mccullough said...

Isn't Magic Johnson gay?

Jay said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay said...

harrogate said...
I wonder why other NBA players have not come out before Collins did if it is no big deal. Where are the NFL players, the MLB players, the NHL players?


Notice how dumb you actually are:

Major-league baseball player Glenn Burke was comfortably out to his teammates and friends in 1976

Just another silly, ignorant leftist taking to the Internet to opine on a topic he knows nothing about.

I'm shocked.

Jay said...

harrogate said...

But more to the point; it is interesting--nay, it is mildly poetic that you say you played college sports. Because add that to all the things you have said about homosexuals on these boards and, well, the nature of what Collins did is thrown into even sharper relief.


You have no clue what I've said about homosexuals.

harrogate said...

creely spews:

"You said it was a big deal, and usually in these situations that means someone has stepped up and taken a stand in spite of risks."


Actually, no it doesn't "usually" mean that they have taken personal risks. What do you mean "in these situations?", anyway. The WHOLE POINT is that we haven't seen something like this. Unless you want to throw in with morons who compare it to women athletes in the US.

The importance of what Collins did has really, very little to do with Collins' personal life. And it's not cynical to point out that you and other people on these boards know this. It's common sense.

harrogate said...

"Isn't Magic Johnson gay?"

well played.

mccullough said...

I meant isn't Magic Johnson's son gay?

garage mahal said...

When you're dependent on your state check for you meds and it isn't coming until tomorrow, you make comments like that.

If Collins coming out is a yawner, then you have lost the fight. Society has rejected your repellent views.

harrogate said...

"I meant isn't Magic Johnson's son gay?"

No idea. Is he?

Jay said...

Actually, no it doesn't "usually" mean that they have taken personal risks.

In other words, it is important because you say so.

That's touching.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
Society has rejected your repellent views.


You continue to be retarded.

Jay said...

The WHOLE POINT is that we haven't seen something like this.

Um, yes we have, stupid shit.

You were given a link.

Unless you want to throw in with morons who compare it to women athletes in the US.

Except I wan't "comparing" it.

You realize you're fucking dumb, right?

Chip Ahoy said...

Bend over, Buddy. *smooch* That was brave.

harrogate said...

Palladian,

You're arguing with Straw Men. The intriguing thing is, you can't even seem to win on *those* terms.

Jay said...

The importance of what Collins did has really, very little to do with Collins' personal life. And it's not cynical to point out that you and other people on these boards know this. It's common sense.

Its nice that you think repeating something over & over makes it true.

creeley23 said...

And again, Collins was competing with four NFL players also angling for national celebrity by coming out.

This ain't Rosa Parks or Jackie Robinson or even Marina Navratilova.

Jay said...

It's important!!!

We've never seen this before!!

It isn't personal!!

I USE CAPS because it is super duper true!!!

pm317 said...

It would be interesting to know which powerful Democrats, if any, interacted with Tina Brown over the downfall of Howard Kurtz.

Michelle Obama, because she tweeted she had his back.

Michael said...

Mr Kurtz he dead

Jay said...

harrogate takes to the Internet to reveal high school memories and that he can't understand the reference to Martina Navratilova as in: people have been seeing gay athletes on TV for over 30 years.

Why, it is almost as if harrogate is stupid or something.

Aridog said...

Interesting. When I say I really don't give a shit about the whole current hyped hetero/homo debate, I get blasted by some.

Now I find I'm probably going to get laughed at for admiring Martina Navratilova as an athlete...enough so if given one choice of a living athlete to meet and just go to dinner with, I'd pick her. Really.

Navratilova's record is astounding, period. Denigrating it doesn't change that fact. From a much much larger sports demographic, please give me a list of NBA athletes who have even come close to Navratilova's records.

Jay said...

Collins graduated from Stanford in 2001, and it's just ridiculous for someone who lived in that environment at that time — he roomed with Joe Kennedy and was friends with Chelsea Clinton — would be seriously burdened with backward ideas about sexual orientation

No, no, no!

Harrogate knows how BIG this shit all is, dammit!!!

exhelodrvr1 said...

book deal/his own talk show/political career

furious_a said...

Too bad the First Couple can't tweet their support for the people who employ them -- us -- taking the economic hits from their poor stewardship like they can for celebrity, politically-connected pals.

Yo, Jason -- props!

creeley23 said...

Palladian: That was brave. Good on you, mate.

Most of my high school class thought I was gay because I was quiet and repelled by the whole sports-sock-hop scene. The guys were sometimes tense around me, but my best friend was a football hero so they left me alone.

Years later I discovered even my friend thought I was gay and was always expecting me to put the moves on him.

Now I'm a middle-aged bachelor living in San Francisco and some people think I'm gay.

Thank Odin, Jason Collins is making it safe to be thought gay.

Jay said...

If you think this is a "big deal" or "important" (which is absurd) you have no sense of proportion.

But, you know what is a big deal?

The US Secretary of State ordering a security reduction at a US Consolate which is attacked, 3 weeks after pleas by the ambassador and his staff for enhanced security, killing an Ambassador for the first time since 1979. Further, not only did the Secretary of State try to obfuscate her decision, the White House tried to blame the attack on a video. To top it off, the same State Department is now threatening people who want to testify to Congress about what really happened - as in who refused to send in support units and lied about the unit's availability - in the matter as the public has been lied to repeatedly.

Now that is a big deal and if you think an NBA player you couldn't pick out of a photo lineup 2 weeks ago if the grand prize were $40,000,000 announcing his sexual preferences is "important" you're a fucking moron.

somefeller said...

Althouse suggests:It would be interesting to know which powerful Democrats, if any, interacted with Tina Brown over the downfall of Howard Kurtz.

What makes you think powerful Republicans weren't involved in this vast conspiracy? Once again, you assume the worst of social conservatives. The worst!

Nomennovum said...

It is absurd in the extreme for Kurtz to have been fired for such a minor offense. What the hell is going on the the PC world that a liberal such as he is sacrificed to the great god of leftism?

Is this another bloody crossroad, the intersection of race and sexual preference, claiming one more white male victim?

DAN said...

Mistah Kurtz, he dead.

virgil xenophon said...

Not only are the feministas TOTALLY silent about Collins' betrayal of his wife, NOT EVEN MENTIONED are the STD risks he exposed her to if he was active during his "marriage." Talk about a selfish SOB! Talk about moral criminality! But crickets chirping--even here..

Titus said...

I was brave too. Picture it, 1986, Waunakee Wisconsin High School, I came out. Yes, I got the shit beat out of me, had to go to a therapist (per the principal) and make up phys ed by taking the class with the "mentally challenged" kids rather than the boys-that was fun

Rhode Island just became the 10 state to go all gay marriage!

Welcome Rhode Island!

tits.

n.n said...

Nomennovum:

The first rule of Political Correctness is that you never question Political Correctness.

Titus said...

Gay marriage is legal in every state in New England now:

Mass
Vermont
New Hampshire
Maine
Connecticut
and now
Rhode Island

Nomennovum said...

Gay marriage is legal in every state in New England now. -- Titus

Interesting that that is where the Puritans settled and executed witches.

Nomennovum said...

tits = Titus - you?

Renee said...

http://www.rikidscount.org/matriarch/documents/13_Factbook_Indicator_2.pdf

Rhode Island Kids Count Fact Sheet 2013

Economic Well-Being and Family Structure

Economic status during early childhood can have a profound effect on children’s health and development. Stable family structure is strongly correlated with economic well-being. Married-parent families have the highest economic status, followed by cohabiting-parent families, and then by single-parent families. For women, entering marriages or cohabiting relationships (especially with the child’s biological father) is associated with increased economic status. Divorces and exits from cohabiting relationships are associated with declines in economic well-being.12


A state that is losing their middle class and 10%of its child population, too bad they never focused on marriage public policy when they had it.

Renee said...

Vermont which also lost child population and lack of economic growth, is planning to balance it all out with assisted suicide.

creeley23 said...

Interesting that that is where the Puritans settled and executed witches.

They are still puritans. As various commentators have noted, their obsession has shifted from sex to diet.

dreams said...

I've never been impressed with Howard Kurtz, a politically correct liberal, though apparently this time he wasn't politically correct enough.

tom scott said...

Collin's stats may be less than impressive but his backdoor moves were fast. Deceptively fast.
But he did blow a lot of layups.

Pogo said...

The defenestration of Kurtz is fair warning to the way they will deal with dissent once gay marriage is the state religion.

They will permit no other gods before it. It's already begun.

Nomennovum said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lem said...

Pogo, dude, I almost missed your comment.

Your switch of Avatar was unexpected... I hope I wont I need therapy ;)

Nomennovum said...

I was brave too. Picture it, 1986, Waunakee Wisconsin High School, I came out. Yes, I got the shit beat out of me, had to go to a therapist (per the principal) and make up phys ed by taking the class with the "mentally challenged" kids rather than the boys-that was fun.

Picture me. 1972, 6th grade. Suburban NYC. Made a black friend. Went to his apartment in the projects to meet his mother (no dad) and play. Got the shit beaten out of me by his friends for being an upper middle class white on their turf. My friend did nothing to help. Nothing. Went home. Parents asked what happened. "Nothing." No therapist. Parents probably happy I lived. The end.

Hero? No. Brave? Naive? Dumb?

Kids get beat up. It's good when you live. Fuck the thugs.

somefeller said...

The defenestration of Kurtz is fair warning to the way they will deal with dissent once gay marriage is the state religion. They will permit no other gods before it. It's already begun.

But thankfully for all right-thinking Americans, The Resistance will be led by brave Walter Mittys, I mean Patrick Henrys, like you, Pogo. Resist the Velvet Menace!

Lem said...

Very brave of Pogo to come out with a new Avatar.

SteveR said...

Garage says "You would never pull a stat completely out of your ass!"

Pot meet kettle

Icepick said...

Could I just eat my fucking waffles?

Only if they're butt-fucking waffles. Stay on theme!

Titus said...

New England, and yes now even New Hampshire (which used to be conservative/libertairan) is basically the Europe of the U.S.

I think it is because we have been around longer than the rest of the U.S.

Also, the puritan streak is still very strong but now very different.

Also, we are very wealthy...for the most part.

tits.

And Hi Reny!

Icepick said...

It's as if there were some other overlaying assumptions prior to the present era.

Sister, you just said a mouthful.

Pogo said...

Thx, Lem.
I'm all about avatar courage.

Icepick said...

Gays in Iran will come out first.

There are no gays in Iran. Ahmadinejad says so, duh....

Saint Croix said...

the big deal is about an NBA player publicly coming out of the closet.

Liberals have no wit, no sense of humor. Not only is it cost-free for Collins to announce that he is gay, the rewards are huge.

That's why I think it would be hilarious if Collins was straight, and only pretending to be gay. In fact the French made that comedy more than a decade ago.

Renee said...

Titus,

Wealthy, but fewer. Rich/poor gap I think is too severe.

Icepick said...

For tonight's performance, Harrogate will being playing the role of Inga, Jay will be playing the role of Matt, and garage mahal will be playing the role of o ritmo segundo.

somefeller said...

Wealthy, but fewer. Rich/poor gap I think is too severe.

Well, that just shows the poor need to work harder.

Lem said...

That's why I think it would be hilarious if Collins was straight, and only pretending to be gay.

You sure you are not talking about Victor Victoria

furious_a said...

Jason Collins is New Sandra Fluke -- Now with Black and Gay!

The Get-Your-Mind-Right Media will flog his coming-out for as long as he's useful to them, then they'll ditch him like they did Cindy Sheehan and, for that matter, Ms. Fluke

Renee said...

Some feller....

70% of children living in poverty in RI are from single parent homes.

We need our men in the home.

Icepick said...

The defenestration of Kurtz is fair warning to the way they will deal with dissent once gay marriage is the state religion.

They will permit no other gods before it. It's already begun.


Gay marriage will be co-equal with partial-birth abortion for 11 year-olds without their parents knowledge. These will be the unquestionable truths that cannot be questioned.

Phil 3:14 said...

Kurtz has expressed dissatisfaction with deep cutbacks and in his bureau site’s increased emphasis on liberal commentary, including the addition of two former Obama administration officials as columnists.

The multiple epithets against Kurtz because he's a "liberal" indicate many of you have no sense the middle. Clearly, he's not conservative but equally he's no Los.

Icepick said...

And Titus, Virginia was permanently settled first, of what became the original 13 colonies.

Icepick said...

Palladian, who the fuck is Steve Lee?

Also, if we're at this later tonight on this same thread, we should get back to crappy songs. WAY more entertaining.

somefeller said...

70% of children living in poverty in RI are from single parent homes.

And that's totally the fault of teh gayz. If only they'd just stop with their gay stuff, we'd have poverty and illegitimacy licked, I tell ya!

rcocean said...

"I mean was he taken off the Lindsey Lohan beat?"

The tragedy of Howard Kurz. Not big enough for Lohan - not Gay enough for Collins.

Terminated for extreme prejudice.

Matt said...

"Also, if we're at this later tonight on this same thread, we should get back to crappy songs. WAY more entertaining."

My oldest son sang the following at school and continues to sing it way too much. Plus, he is tone deaf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqEG-hZE2QI

Make sure you get to the part way they sing the States alphabetically.

rcocean said...

BTW, I think its brave that only 20 years after "Philadelphia" and Bill Clinton pushing Gays in the Military, a Pro-sport Gay finally had guts to come out of the closet.

I know a lot of us in the 80s were sure Navratilova and gals in the LPGA were all straight.

creeley23 said...

My favorite sleeper crappy song is "I've Never Been to Me" even though I sorta agree with the lyrics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhQWND9jKDA

rcocean said...

It was pretty homophobic back in the 1980s, Gays were almost unknown. we actually thought Elton John, Rock Hudson, and the LA Dodgers were straight.

We were pretty naive.

Kenneth Burns said...

"I'll refrain from lambasting the man for his deceit and cowardice ..."

May you never know the agony of the closet.

rcocean said...

I mean Ron Cey? "The Penguin"?

Pretty obvious now.

rcocean said...

wilt and 10,000 women. Misdirection.

rcocean said...

BTW, is Oprah or Whoppi Gay - or Not Gay?

My black gaydar doesn't work well.

Icepick said...

Wow, Matt, that truly is an awful song! It makes me happy we've decided to home school - I'll teach her Wacko's song about the states and their capitols instead!

RecChief said...

ok what Collins did took some courage. Some. But slow down on the hero talk. He is a journeyman who is near the end of his career. And a free agent. If he doesn't get signed by a team, now he can claim it is because of bias and bigotry. He may not make it into the Basketball Hall of Fame, but he did just make it into the LGBTQ Hall of Fame, and can assure himself of appearance fees at all LGBTQ events for the foreseeable future.

Lem said...

May you never know the agony of the closet.

I've seen a few walking in closets in my day... this was a Mall.

Matt said...

Kenneth Burns said...
"I'll refrain from lambasting the man for his deceit and cowardice ..."

May you never know the agony of the closet.

5/2/13, 9:24 PM

As it happens, many of the folks here probably already live in "the closet" so to speak. It just happens that our closet is the one of not being liberal in an area inundated with liberals.

In this closet, should you happen to reveal your lack of liberal beliefs to the wrong person, you will be told things like, "If it were up to me, you would not be allowed at this table." In this closet, when you have a terribly kind neighbor who also happens to be very liberal, you work extra hard not to accidentally let slip that you disagree on something politically due to the fallout that may occur.

Now, you may say the gay closet is worse than the conservative (or in my case, libertarian) closet and I would tend to agree. However, today, the gay closet is not nearly as necessary as it had been. This shows in Collins case where he is lauded for his "bravery" and "heroism" and, if anyone should criticize him, a barrage of hate will rain down on the speaker.

The risks Collins faces by coming out are far fewer than the potential rewards. The risks I and others face by admitting to not being liberal are worse than any possible reward.

Aridog said...

furious_a said...

Jason Collins is New Sandra Fluke -- Now with Black and Gay!

Thread winner!

Lem said...

The tragedy of Howard Kurz. Not big enough for Lohan - not Gay enough for Collins.

Maybe he can come back some day...

I mean, if Jimmy Swaggart and the Weiner could come back... anybody can come back.

Hey, we even found the Titanic.

somefeller said...

The risks I and others face by admitting to not being liberal are worse than any possible reward.

I don't use the word hero much, but Matt, given the terrible risks you face every day for voting for Republicans and the immense grace that you display under such inmense pressure, I must say: you are a hero. I hope you have one of those cool jpegs on your computer screen of a bald eagle with a tear coming from its eye and the slogan "freedom isn't free", because by God, you've earned it.

El Pollo Real said...

Kenneth Burns said...

May you never know the agony of the closet.

Isn't there a lot of ecstasy there to?

somefeller said...

And yes, Matt, the pressure you face is immense, not inmense, which makes the glory and heroism greater still.

garage mahal said...

This gay NBA gay superhero story isn't adding up. It can't possibly be the strawmen erected by his detractors though' right? This is America!

m stone said...

I think creeley being a straight bachelor in San Francisco is a bigger hero.

Matt said...

somefeller, LOL.

Well, there is little reward to saying your a not liberal to a liberal. Either they shrug it off, shun you or attack you. The best case is no change.

However, in Collins case, the possible reward is another multimillion dollar contract for a career that was likely over plus the admiration and adulation of millions of fawning liberals not to mention the book deals, media appearance, et cetera.

If someone told me I could make millions if I told everyone I know that I was libertarian, I would do so in a second!

Chuck66 said...

The first draft of Rev King's letters from a Birmingham Jail.

"All I wanted was to have another man ejackulate into my anus".

Matt said...

somefeller,

The larger point is that most everyone faces hurdles and obstacles on a daily basis yet we all manage to make it through just fine. But, when a connected celebrity makes an announcement that promises more fame and fortune, we are all expected to praise him for his bravery and heroism.

That is why a lot of us look at this situation and think, "Are you kidding me? Who cares?!"

El Pollo Real said...

Titus said...
I was brave too. Picture it, 1986, Waunakee Wisconsin High School, I came out. Yes, I got the shit beat out of me, had to go to a therapist (per the principal) and make up phys ed by taking the class with the "mentally challenged" kids rather than the boys-that was fun.

Waunakee was always behind Middleton. MHS had an openly gay student circa 1977-78 who was a Carson Kressley doppelganger--maybe you knew him? I forget his name.

Waunakee could still put out the strawberry blondes though. I dated one of them--mmm, mmm, mmm. Sweet memories.

Lem said...

...and [Collins] was friends with Chelsea Clinton...

You mean to tell Ken Starr missed one?

That reminds me - how did Kurtz treat the Clintons during the Lewinsky affair and subsequent impeachment?

What do they say? - revenge is a cold dish from a longs day journey into nigh... or something.

Long knives the Clintons are rumored to have.

Palladian said...

"All I wanted was to have another man ejackulate into my anus".

That's fucking hot dude. Straight men like you always have the hottest, most graphic gay fuck fantasies.

Palladian said...

I think Steve Lee was in Whitesnake. Or maybe it was Poison.

David said...

The Daily Beast "regrets his error."

Memo to editor:

It's your error. You are in charge and therefore responsible. The buck should stop with you, buck passer.

BDNYC said...

I wonder if Collins is truly gay. He either is gay and lied shamelessly to a woman he professed to love, wasting 8 years of her youth, or he isn't really gay, but something else, and is being an opportunist. Heck he could be bisexual.

I have a hard time believing he's a total queer. In any event, he's a creep, I'm afraid. There's no possible way of interpreting the known facts without thinking of him as a creep.

creeley23 said...

Palladian: What makes MacArthur Park such a terrible song to you?

I'd agree that it's histrionic and not to my taste either, but otherwise it's got a clear melody and theme, and it's competently performed, at least by Harris and Summer, the versions I know.

Which is to say it's not the pop song equivalent to Plan 9 from Outer Space.

Lem said...

A little Google digging reveals a very conscientious? reporting by Kurtz countering Clintons WH charges that Starr was leaking grand jury testimony to the press.

Starr Defends
'Background' Talk


I say that put him in the Clinton's... how should we say... persona non grata watch list.

garage mahal said...

Palladian knows of Whitesnake and Poison. No commentary offered other than I think that's awesome, and if Palladian knew me better we would better friends. [It's not like I'm a titus or anything.]

But, I live in Madison and I'm a populist and therefore I have snakes growing out of my head so that isn't possible.

Here is my outreach song.

LOVE Bob Brozman!

Lem said...

... buck passer.

I thought we were talking about an NBA player.

(ok, that's a cheap shot)

El Pollo Real said...

Lem notes: ... buck passer.

I thought we were talking about an NBA player.


IIRC, Lew Alcindor was both.

El Pollo Real said...

garage mahal said...No commentary offered other than I think that's awesome, and if Palladian knew me better we would better friends.

Then buy something from him. You're flush. I found a photo print that was a must have. He sells cheap too--it cost me more to frame it. I will buy more in flusher times.

You're a nobody if you don't own a piece of Palladian's art.

Methadras said...

rcocean said...

It was pretty homophobic back in the 1980s, Gays were almost unknown. we actually thought Elton John, Rock Hudson, and the LA Dodgers were straight.

We were pretty naive.


Why is it naivete if you didn't know? Where we somehow supposed to magically know? You thinking it was naive is pretty naive.

Methadras said...

rcocean said...

It was pretty homophobic back in the 1980s, Gays were almost unknown. we actually thought Elton John, Rock Hudson, and the LA Dodgers were straight.

We were pretty naive.


Why is it naivete if you didn't know? Where we somehow supposed to magically know? You thinking it was naive is pretty naive.

garage mahal said...

Then buy something from him.

What makes you think I haven't?

Stop chirping and assuming.

Palladian said...

Thanks for the plug, El Pollo. I'm still behind delivering a couple of prints to people, everything got disrupted when I had to move abruptly in March. The printer I use is huge, so I didn't take it to my temporary digs, but I've got everything running again.

El Pollo Real said...

What makes you think I haven't?

Well, hallelujah if you have!

Stop chirping and assuming.

I made a chirbit for tonight, but since ritmo didn't show, I won't release it.

Lem said...

Lew Alcindor was both...

What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Sam L. said...

Kurtz did not have powerful friends. THAT's the mistake he made.

Lem said...

You're a nobody if you don't own a piece of Palladian's art.

I got some way back... Like you, I plan on going back for more.

Ralph L said...

You thinking it was naive is pretty naive.
I believe that was sarcasm. No one thought Elton was straight after the late 70's.

William said...

It has long been rumored that many male figure skaters are hetero........Why of all the different variations on human sexuality are gays the only one to have such mystique. Foot fetishists make their lonely way through life without ever making a fuss. Foot fetishists are to sexual minorities what Asians are to racial minorities.......I myself have long struggled with my foot fetish. My particular variation on this theme is that I like to buy women shoes. The more expensive the better. My biggest thrill is taking a girl to an expensive shoe store and buying her two or three pairs.

Bob Ellison said...

This is all way too much inside baseball for me. What happened? Did Colonel Mustard do something in the parlor or something?

Palladian said...

"Palladian: What makes MacArthur Park such a terrible song to you?"

Everything: the meaningless, ludicrous lyrics ("...the birds, like tender babies in your hands" "...in love's hot, fevered iron like a striped pair of pants" ???), the overblown, melodramatic orchestration, the ridiculously unearned emotional crescendos, the fact that MacArthur Park was a seedy, crime-ridden drug haven when the song was written, the sheer length of the song...

It's a testament to the terribleness of the song that many performers choose to perform only the slightly more normal bridge (though the lyrics of the bridge are stupid too: "I will drink the wine while it is warm
and never let you catch me looking at the sun" Warm wine? Catch you looking at the sun?? What!?). Sinatra's recording is only the bridge of the song.

Palladian said...

By the way, I don't think I've ever posted the list of artists whose recordings of "MacArthur Park" I collected for my "MacArthur Park Boxed Set":

K2 Groove
Four Tops
Camouflage
Eduardo Lages
Liza Minelli
Hugo Montenegro
Cast of Priscilla, Queen of the Dessert: The Musical
Long John Baldry
Madison Scouts
Blue Devils
Joe Longthorne
Richard Clayderman
Liz Callaway
Larry Carlton
The Ray Conniff Singers
Glen Campbell
Howard Keel
London Symphony Orchestra
Andy Williams
Variations
Richard Harris
The Band of Yorkshire Imperial Metals
Peter Nero
Julian Byron Conducting the Chelsea Strings
Dionne Warwick
The Four Tops
Percy Faith and His Orchestra
John Rowles
Vic Damone
Mantovani
Ferrante & Teicher
Donna Summer
Grimethorpe Colliery Band
Frank Sinatra
Justin Hayward
Maynard Ferguson
Tony Bennett
Bill Chase
Carrie Underwood
Chet Atkins & Jerry Reed
Stan Kenton
The Templeton Twins with Teddy Turner's Bunsen Burners
Unknown
The Lettermen
Jimmy Webb
Waylon Jennings
Miss Dominique
Elaine Page
Marinierskapel Der Koninklijke Marine
The Queers
Sammy Davis, Jr
Stanley Turrentine
Gitte Hænning
Mike Flowers Pops
James Last
Regine Velasquez
101 Strings Orchestra
Atlantic Bridge
Raymond LeFevre Orchestra
The Three Degrees
The Negro Problem
Peter Hofmann
Horst Jankowski
Gerard Joling
Anita Meyer
Yuki Koyanagi
Beggar's Opera
Jack Fender
Vocal Majority
The Nite-Liters
Andrea Marcovicci
Los Pianos Barrocos

Palladian said...

Man, that really killed the thread, dinit?

El Pollo Real said...

@Palladian: I hope that's not just a simple gripe list. If so, I'm prepared to defend the following:

The Ray Conniff Singers
Glen Campbell
Frank Sinatra
Chet Atkins & Jerry Reed
Waylon Jennings
Sammy Davis, Jr
Beggar's Opera

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