April 12, 2013

"Why Dr. Kermit Gosnell's Trial Should Be a Front-Page Story."

"The dead babies. The exploited women. The racism. The numerous governmental failures. It is thoroughly newsworthy."
"Bureaucratic inertia is not exactly news. We understand that," [says the grand jury report]. "But we think this was something more. We think the reason no one acted is because the women in question were poor and of color, because the victims were infants without identities, and because the subject was the political football of abortion."...

Is it even conceivable that an optometrist who attended to his white patients in a clean office while an intern took care of the black patients in a filthy room wouldn't make national headlines?

But it isn't even solely a story of a rogue clinic that's awful in all sorts of sensational ways either. Multiple local and state agencies are implicated in an oversight failure that is epic in proportions! If I were a city editor for any Philadelphia newspaper the grand jury report would suggest a dozen major investigative projects I could undertake if I had the staff to support them....
That's Conor Friedersdorf at The Atlantic, challenging the news media to explain their noncoverage.

526 comments:

1 – 200 of 526   Newer›   Newest»
Leit Bart said...

It was a well-written story. He must write really fast.

John Cunningham said...

The Party and its media stooges will never cover a story like this monster Gosnell. First of all, nothing can be printed or aired showing negative things about abortion. Even more so, Gosnell is a Genius of Color. nothing casting a bad light on People of Color can be shown.

LarsPorsena said...

Conor Friedersdorf is going to find himself viewed as a non-person by the MSM and its leftoid acolytes.

BarrySanders20 said...

What is there to report? The leftists who control the content in newspapers and on TV believe these are just women controlling their own bodies, making health care choices.

They believe the lines like: If you don't like abortion, then don't have one. And: This involves nobody but the woman and her doctor.

So big woop.

bearing said...

You can thank an organized Twitter campaign for this (everyone tweeted on #Gosnell over two days and got it trending). Several journalists at major news outlets tweeted that they hadn't heard a thing about it before.

edutcher said...

How about mass murder, flavored with the kind of sadism the world saw briefly with the Husseins, but hasn't really seen more widely since the ideological dictatorships of (Godwin Alert) and Uncle Joe?

bagoh20 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BarrySanders20 said...

Plus, who wants to get punished with a baby? Abortion is great! Celebrate it!

Moose said...

I like how Sandy Hook was a national story and Kermit Gosnell is a local story. Which one plays better to the intended audience?

bagoh20 said...

" This involves nobody but the woman and her doctor."

Exactly. Victimless. Not news.

bagoh20 said...

It's pretty much an unremarkable natural occurrence among that particular culture. Just because it's bad to us does not make it bad to everyone. People have different beliefs, and values.

Bob Ellison said...

It is horrific.

Rabel said...

To my suprise, that article showed up in my Yahoo news feed.

But here's the quote from Friedersdorf that boggles my little mind:

"Until Thursday, I wasn't aware of this story."

MayBee said...

Dr Tiller was such a hero, Obama issued a public statement about his death.

His position with the "feminist" left is good insight into why Gosnell cannot be mentioned.

Achilles said...

This story just underlines how womens issues and race hustling have been twisted by progressives to smear their enemies and hide their own intentions. These clinics are supported by planned parenthood and other well heeled leftist NGO's. Of course they recoil with horror when it was brought to light, but these people are the ideological and in many cases direct biological descendants of the Eugenics movement.

Just as these were the people that forced sterilizations of the undesirables, now they fund the abortion of undesirables. Condescension towards minorities underlines nearly every policy of the left. Racism is the present and the legacy of the progressive left.

AprilApple said...

Journalism is dead in this country.

garage mahal said...

Journalism is dead in this country.

So....where was conservative media before this week? Talking about FLOTUS vacations and ObamaPhones?

chuck said...

Over 1100 comments at the Atlantic.

I didn't realize the story wasn't being covered. That's what I get for not watching the news or reading newspapers, I know news I shouldn't know. I denounce myself.

chickelit said...

Althouse has posted on this for 3 weeks now: link

Thank you

Achilles said...

garage mahal said...

Journalism is dead in this country.

So....where was conservative media before this week? Talking about FLOTUS vacations and ObamaPhones?

4/12/13, 5:51 PM

Could we just change his name to "SQUIRREL!" please? His schtick is actually getting a bit tiresome.

bagoh20 said...

Someone who agrees with this became President primarily by winning the female vote.

What happened to that emotional I.Q. thing, or was that reason? Something is evil - that's for sure.

C Stanley said...

Lots of reversals and at least mild mea culpas on this today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/04/12/washington-post-pledges-gosnell-coverage/

And Andrew Sullivan has a horrifying photo.

I'm trying to be charitable and give space for these folks to have a change of heart, or grow a heart. The cynic in me is expecting to see several new memes cropping up in the next few days. The gist will be explanations of how the vicious anti-abortion movement is actually responsible for Gosnell.

Already I saw that VA has passed new regulations on abortion clinics and the commenters universally condemned this as an attempt to put abortion clinics out of business.

chickelit said...

The MSM is evolving.

Achilles said...

bagoh20 said...

Someone who agrees with this became President primarily by winning the female vote.

What happened to that emotional I.Q. thing, or was that reason? Something is evil - that's for sure.

4/12/13, 5:58 PM

I remember when Obama's votes on "Post-Birth" abortions in the Illinois legislature came up. I wonder if he was against if after he was for it now? Can he count on the idiot vote now with some of those pictures coming out?

Saint Croix said...

The reason it's not a front page story is that it implicates our legal authorities in a mass murder. And people don't want to believe that, or think about it.

Add that to the fact that 99% of journalists are pro-choice. So they automatically argue (as Instapundit did earlier this week) that Dr. Gosnell has nothing to do with Roe v. Wade, or abortion.

In other words, it's a local story of one rogue doctor who went bad. No national implications. Nothing to see here.

But Althouse covers the story relentlessly. So Instapundit throws up some links. And then there's a story in USA Today. And now a big story (with photographs!) in The Atlantic.

This is the first photograph of an aborted baby published in a mainstream news magazine, unless I am mistaken.

This might end up being what Instapundit calls a "preference cascade" in the news media. Suddenly, more and more people are aware of what is going on. And talking about it.

Ann Althouse said...

I posted back when the arrest was made, but I didn't make a tag until today, and if I didn't put the name in the post, it's hard for me to find now, because the "abortion" tag and the "murder" tag and the "law" tag have so many posts.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

You would think that even Bitchtits the Uneducated could agree that the murder of multiple newborn children is a bad thing.

But not, the evil fuck can't even bring himself to that if it looks like it might in any way harm the leftist cause.

I hope the fat fuck chokes to death on whatever fried food he next stuffs down his gullet.

bagoh20 said...

"So....where was conservative media before this week?"

You mean the same people who have been telling you about this kind of thing for years as your side denied it and claimed it was paranoid exaggeration designed just to destroy Planned Parenthood? So you never heard of such a thing from the right wing?

mentilsoup said...

Who would want to host this fight in the national media? Who would hazard the attempt at disentangling the inevitable political constructions that will be erected upon the wasteland this psychopath has cleared? Who wants to unpack all the prejudices and detritus this commands?

And what's the gain? Do you really want to sell advertising on this story?

Maybe it's not in the national media because there are limits to ghoulishness among journalists, and it took something truly unspeakable and incomprehensible to find them.

I don't know. I'm just not satisfied with the simplistic invocation of partisan bias.

chickelit said...

mentilsoup said...
Who would want to host this fight in the national media? Who would hazard the attempt at disentangling the inevitable political constructions that will be erected upon the wasteland this psychopath has cleared? Who wants to unpack all the prejudices and detritus this commands?

Someone with foresight, a little hindsight and a human soul?

Achilles said...

mentilsoup said...

I don't know. I'm just not satisfied with the simplistic invocation of partisan bias.

4/12/13, 6:06 PM

Are you serious? With a president that personally voted against a partial and post birth abortion bill? A President that gets slavish devotion from the same media?

Amartel said...

"So....where was conservative media before this week? Talking about FLOTUS vacations and ObamaPhones?"

There's a point here: I've turned on Fox twice this week. Both times: Jody Arias trial. Which I'm not sure why a murder trial is national news other than the fear that we're going to have another "girl gets away with murder of family member" story. Surely, if Arias is national news on that basis, the Gosnell horror is also a national story. But then, I only saw Fox twice this week and it was the morning news.

Baron Zemo said...


This story is not being covered because the news media is in the business of protecting abortion and abortionists. As well as President Obama.

We know that President Obama agrees with this process. He signed on to the bill when he was in the Illinois legislature that would allow babies to be killed if they survived an abortion. If this trial was given any day light this would come out and more people would be aware of it.

chickelit said...

I hope the fat fuck chokes to death on whatever fried food he next stuffs down his gullet.

That was mean, PJM. Don't you know it's Friday Fish Fry in Madison?

victoria said...

Really, I've known about this story for weeks. Horrible horrible man and what he did. Where was the right wing media? Someone said talking about FLOTUS and vacations and such. Where is the indignation? No no, for the right wing press this is not "sexy" or "Obamay" enough. they can't handle a real story about government abuses and a man run amock. They'd rather cover crap that no one cares about.

Ann, you keep talking about this and blogging about it. Some day someone will get as disgusted as I am.

Vicki From Pasadena

bagoh20 said...

"I don't know. I'm just not satisfied with the simplistic invocation of partisan bias."

Newtown didn't have any problem getting coverage. Lots of kids killed. Very ugly. This is all political bias. There is no way that if some NRA employee was found killing kids for a profit that it would not get coverage 24/7, be blamed on the NRA organization, and the second amendment. It would lead quickly to legislation, and reversal of any law that was a pro gun version of Roe V Wade.

Matthew Sablan said...

I like the photo of the media section of the trial. It's... enlightening.

chickelit said...

@victoria: You would take an olive branch and snap it in two.

Bitter

garage mahal said...

Could we just change his name to "SQUIRREL!"

I concede MSM didn't cover this story.

Again, where were conservative media outlets?

Shouting Thomas said...

I don't think this slaughterhouse is the only one that exists. I suspect that Gosnell's business model is pretty prevalent.

Just my guess.

While I am Catholic, I am in general in favor of that much derided concept... "hypocrisy."

I think that official opposition to abortion, and "hypocritical" access to it when it is really necessary (which is to say, the status quo pre Roe v. Wade) is probably better.

Matthew Sablan said...

"So....where was conservative media before this week?"

-- I've heard about this case for, what, a year? Year and a half? It's not my fault if you just follow the tabloid conservative media that aims to be equal to MSNBC and HuffPo.

Baron Zemo said...

There is not act so heinous that the main stream media would ever condem when it involves abortion.

On the other hand call somebody a name you used to hear on the playground and they will string you up.

Abortion is a sacred cow. Nothing can touch it. The murder of these children is just the logical extension of the abortion process.

Shouting Thomas said...

In a similar vein, Jodi Arias is arguing that she had the right to murder her boyfriend because he "abused" her.

Is there any limit to what we will allow in order to give women what they want?

Seems to me we're reaching the point where we have to decide.

Matthew Sablan said...

Yeah; the arrest was reported in 2011 and the grand jury's recommendations came out that year too. So, about two years, actually, that this story has been out there.

But, hey. Just a local murder story. It isn't the news worthy killing of a kid the president said might look like his son if he had one.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"That was mean, PJM. Don't you know it's Friday Fish Fry in Madison?"

I'm afraid that I don't know too much about the local customs in Wisconsin, with my experience limited just a few days at a client's office as well as the Milwaukee airport and a La Quinta Inn in Waukesha.

As to being mean, well, guilty as charged.



mentilsoup said...

Are you serious? With a president that personally voted against a partial and post birth abortion bill? A President that gets slavish devotion from the same media?

Thanks for proving my point. This story isn't about abortion rights. The interpretation of Roe v. Wade has less than zero to do with the insoluble evil on display here. In much the same way as Sandy Hook has nothing to do with the Second Amendment, partisan drones with no incentive to be circumspect have no compunction smearing themselves in the blood of the dead to shriek their slogans in an attempt to emotionally hijack any issue it serves.

You think if abortion were illegal - as it was in the case of so many of the murdered children bloodying Dr. Gosnell's hands - he wouldn't have found ways to torture and slaughter innocuous human beings?

Then you're a fool with an agenda, nothing more.

Hitchens is dead, and the rest of the few journalists with courage are on the foreign policy beat. Even Friedersdorf didn't push into dissection (forgive the connotations) of the story at hand.

Evil is an insoluble, concomitant fact of human life. Why do you need the news to fix it for you?

Aridog said...

chickelit said...

Althouse has posted on this for 3 weeks now: link

Yes, she did and it is the first place I read of it anywhere. It has had scant coverage elsewhere...however, worthwhile commentary here. Credit given where it is due, so thank you Althouse.



Shouting Thomas said...

garage, I've been reading Mark Steyn's coverage of this story for a long time.

Don't know when he first wrote about it.

garage mahal said...

As to being mean, well, guilty as charged.

You're not mean. You're just a disturbed child acting out for attention. I've never taken it personally.

virgil xenophon said...

This lack of coverage has to be "explained?" Must be more cave-dwellers around than I thought. The nature of the MSM "explained?"

Saint Croix said...

Althouse hits the story here and here and sort of here and covers his arrest here.

She's not a journalist and not a pro-lifer, and maybe covers abortion more honestly and openly than anybody in the country. Yes?

Writ Small said...

Conor was also one of the first lefties who attacked his own side for giving Obama a free hand on drones.

People respect him because by not strictly cheerleading for his side, he shows he is not a partisan hack.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Eat up fatty, don't bother chewing.

: )

Inga said...

Althouse hits the story here and here and sort of here and covers his arrest here.

She's not a journalist and not a pro-lifer, and maybe covers abortion more honestly and openly than anybody in the country. Yes?

4/12/13, 6:29 PM

YES.

Sam L. said...

The ATLANTIC has just put a big target on itself.

dreams said...

Sarah Kliff tweeting her answer to Mollie Hemingway asking why she hasn't covered the trial.

"Hi Molly – I cover policy for the Washington Post, not local crime, hence why I wrote about all the policy issues you mention."

Big Mike said...

So it turns out that pro-choicers are perfectly okay with abortions by rusty coat hanger, as long as they take place inside and unsanitary "clinic" versus a back alley.

Who knew?

BTW, Republicans in my state came under fire for insisting that abortion clinics meet the same standards as any other licensed medical clinic. So I infer that Democrats are perfectly okay with Gosnell and who knows how many other abortion clinics that fail to meet even the lowest standards of medical care.

virgil xenophon said...

O.K., Kudos to Conor for going where no one in the MSM has dared go before, but he has to pose "questions" of his fellow "journalists?" Why not a hard-hitting, scathing "j'acuse" -type indictment of the MSM for suppressing the intuitively obvious?

Saint Croix said...

So....where was conservative media before this week? Talking about FLOTUS vacations and ObamaPhones?

That's a very good question. I think conservative media is dominated by pro-choice Republicans, or Republicans who think the issue is embarrassing. And also they think it hurts the party. We should talk about economics and money.

The Republican base is far more pro-life than the Republican establishment.

AprilApple said...

Garage - If you don't watch Fox News eeek scary!)
you wouldn't know that Megan Kelly has been covering this story for days.

Paul Zrimsek said...

In much the same way as Sandy Hook has nothing to do with the Second Amendment, partisan drones with no incentive to be circumspect have no compunction smearing themselves in the blood of the dead to shriek their slogans in an attempt to emotionally hijack any issue it serves.

Very well then: the stories are parallel. Except that in one, the press joined in the slogan-shrieking themselves, while in the other: omerta. These never-before-suspected limits to ghoulishness sure turned up at an ideologically convenient time, didn't they?

AprilApple said...

Garage - what conservative media?
Besides evil Fox News - who? what?

Scott Pelly - CBS
Brian Williams - NBC
Dianne Sawyer - ABC
All partisan pro-Democrat agenda pushers.
Matt Lauer
Catie Kouric
All of MSDNC

What "right wing news" are you talking about?

AprilApple said...

Obama is pro-late term abortion. The media cannot touch this.

dreams said...

Planned Parenthood speaking to congress about botch abortions.

“If a baby is born on a table as a result of a botched abortion, what would Planned Parenthood want to have happen to that child that is struggling for life?” Snow replied: “We believe that any decision that’s made should be left up to the woman, her family and the physician.” She added, “That decision should be between the patient and the health care provider.” To this, a Florida legislator responded: “I think that at that point the patient would be the child struggling on a table. Wouldn’t you agree?”

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/04/12/the-lethal-logic-behind-the-abortion-rights-movement/#more-822500

Baron Zemo said...

She wouldn't agree. It is just an inconvenience. Not a baby.

Amartel said...

I've known about this for a while but only because I read conservative blogs. (This is not a conservative blog, don't faint.)

"The Republican base is far more pro-life than the Republican establishment."

Definitely. But this isn't even an abortion issue. This guy killed babies after they were born. It's grotesque. And at least one woman/girl died by his hand. No government oversight at his clinic. They let this go on and on for years. Just proves the point that "Planned Parenthood" is, and always will be, a racist organization, and that racism permeates even to other black people. Not just Gosnell, who prioritized Caucasian customers over Black and Asian customers, but also all the government officials who averted their eyes from this horror. For years.

Also, I think Fiedersdorf, and other liberal journalists, knew about this for a long time. As observed in the first comment here, "he must write really fast." Yeah, that's a long and researched article for someone who just discovered this issue. He's like Kirsten Powers - he gets some credibility and face-time in conservative media for making the occasional easy score off absurd lefty journalistic/governing practices. Then he goes right back to toeing the party line.

chickelit said...

Sam L. said...
The ATLANTIC has just put a big target on itself.

They used to publish exclusive stuff by Mark Twain, didn't they?

mentilsoup said...

These never-before-suspected limits to ghoulishness sure turned up at an ideologically convenient time, didn't they?

I don't know. People seem to enjoy reading about mass killings with guns; we've had enough of them for the shock of their awfulness to saturate the conscience. I don't know if serial murder of babies with pinking shears shares that degree of acclimation.

Look, I honestly don't know. I don't want to pretend like I know. What we're experiencing is the same dull sap of humanity Hannah Arendt must have endured writing Eichmann in Jerusalem. To me, the story is even less about the murders themselves than about the staff; my lab gets worked up about upcoding UTIs to pyelonephritis, I can't even fathom playing games with anesthesia or escorting patients to toilets to deliver. It is an ugliness beyond my ability to reason.

Tim said...

"Abortion is a sacred cow. Nothing can touch it. The murder of these children is just the logical extension of the abortion process."

More than a sacred cow, B.Z., it's sacrament of the Democrat Party.

Don't embrace it as a Democrat running for office?

Then, you stand no chance.

Clinton set the tone for the Party with Gov. Casey of PA at his '92 convention.

sydney said...

From the grand jury report quoted in the article:
But all the employees of the Women's Medical Society knew. Everyone there acted as if it wasn't murder at all.

They all knew, but acted as if it wasn't murder. The prochoice movement's willing executioners.

Saint Croix said...

The interpretation of Roe v. Wade has less than zero to do with the insoluble evil on display here.

In Roe Justice Blackmun discusses a theory that newborns are not alive (see footnote 22), and argues that the word "person" does not apply to babies, who cannot vote, run for office, or get arrested for crimes. He also uses the Latin word "fetus" which means "newly delivered," and discusses the infanticide practices of ancient Greece and Rome.

Indeed, the Supreme Court's viability doctrine comes from Plato and Aristotle, who were defending the ancient pagan practice of abandoning newborn infants to die. They can't survive on their own, thus it is right to kill them.

The Supreme Court in Roe invited all medical doctors to violate their Hippocratic Oath, which forbids abortion and the killing of innocent human life.

Abandoning babies to die apparently happens in abortion clinics every day. President Obama notoriously fought against a Born Alive law in Illinois, arguing that these newborns had been marked for termination.

Of course in Planned Parenthood v. Casey, a Pennsylvania case, the Supreme Court smacked down the state authorities, who promptly stopped all health inspections of abortion clinics. Apparently Dr. Gosnell's clinic went 16 years without a health inspection. We would not even be aware of his crimes if the feds had not gone after him for drug pushing.

You can certainly argue that Dr. Gosnell had a good faith belief that what he was doing was protected under Supreme Court case law, which described incredibly brutal and vicious murders of babies outside the birth canal (see Carhart and Carhart II). Our legal authorities used words like "decapitation" and "dismemberment" while simultaneously claiming it was a constitutional right to kill these children.

Dr. Gosnell might be forgiven for not seeing a moral distinction about moving a baby out of the birth canal and onto the operating table. True, he is a murderer, but it's our legal authorities who invited his action, who sanctified it and dehumanized the victims.

dreams said...

A little something to think about for you all you high minded liberal pro choice elitists.

"About all this I wanted to make several points, the first of which is that this is the kind of brutality many people in the pro-life movement warned was at the end of the lethal logic behind the abortion rights movement. If we accept–and in some quarters, celebrate–abortion as a modern emancipation, you end up with people like Kermit Gosnell, who view an unborn child that has been targeted for abortion as marked for death even after birth. And before you dismiss Gosnell’s views as rare among those who champion abortion rights, consider the views of representatives of Planned Parenthood, an organization which (a) receives $500 million in government subsidies and (b) is the most conspicuous abortion rights group in America."

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/04/12/the-lethal-logic-behind-the-abortion-rights-movement/#more-822500

chickelit said...

Mentilsoup = Dr. Vibes

Saint Croix said...

Yeah, that's a long and researched article for someone who just discovered this issue.

It's almost entirely quotes from the grand jury report.

dreams said...

Can anyone deny that the liberal media controls the narrative? This is just another example.

Saint Croix said...

Pennsylvania, by the way, had one of the most prominent pro-life Democrats as governor (the famous Casey in Planned Parenthood v. Casey). The health inspections of abortion clinics stopped under the pro-choice Republican, Tom Ridge.

Don't forget that Roe v Wade was written by a Republican. And Casey was written by 3 Republicans.

Also, Ronald Reagan signed a pro-abortion law when he was governor of California, allowing any woman to get an abortion for "health" purposes.

I have no doubt when our grandchildren are reading about these atrocities, Republicans will be blamed.

dreams said...

I consider liberals and the Democratic party leaders to be sick and decadent people. We're living in a sick and decadent world.

virgil xenophon said...

@chicklet/

Shows how out-of-touch I am--I had to google "Dr. Vibes." LOL

mentilsoup said...

"True, he is a murderer, but it's our legal authorities who invited his action, who sanctified it and dehumanized the victims."

This is laughably preposterous. Sanctified? It's akin to saying that Castle Rock v. Gonzales is responsible for every murder committed in the United States.

chickelit said...

AprilApple said...
Obama is pro-late term abortion. The media cannot touch this.

Is there a pro-Kermit constituency? They should speak up.

Now

Amartel said...

Palace Guard Media finally covers Gosnell:

"Philly Abortion Clinic Workers Saw Few Options"

http://news.yahoo.com/ philly-abortion-clinic-workers -saw-few-options- 204953578.html

Disgusting.

mentilsoup said...

Also, I have no idea what Dr. Vibes is; google tells me it's a black empowerment radio show. Which means I'm doubly lost.

Cedarford said...

Moose said...
I like how Sandy Hook was a national story and Kermit Gosnell is a local story. Which one plays better to the intended audience?

================
The problem is the liberal and progressive Jewish pupetteers that control the media, and thus the persuasion of the masses, have narratives and agendas they collectively feel must be promoted and news either serves or disserves the promugation of the agendas and narratives.

Newton was perfect - even better than Saint Trayvon and the evil White Hispanic who usurped the place of only hero uniformed government employees being the agency allowed to protect the masses.

Dr. Gosnell disrupts the advancement of agreed to narratives and agendas, thus the liberals and progressive jews suppress that news as much as is feasible....

The higher goal is the transformation of America into a multi-kulti, hardcore socialist land.

garage mahal said...

What "right wing news" are you talking about?

I don't know, where do you get your news? Fox? WSJ? Weekly Standard? NRO?

We're they talking about this much before yesterday?

bpm4532 said...

It would force them to ask very uncomfortable questions, like:

1. Why is 24 weeks a cut-off?
2. Why wouldn't 20 weeks be a cut-off?
3. Why wouldn't 10 weeks be a cut-off?

They don't want to discuss the nature of life and unalienable rights bestowed by a creator, when the only right they believe in is "choice" (death, actually).

Amartel said...

"It's almost entirely quotes from the grand jury report."

Okay. Even so, I think my point stands. This is a front page national story and has been for some time. MSM journalists knew about it and refused to inform the public. WaPo tried to frame it as a local story, unworthy of national coverage. Now, MSM is trying to frame it as a victimization of the workers story. The murdering racists who plugged their ears while babies screamed ... had few options.

ErnieG said...

The paradigm I think of is the old conundrum of the tree falling in a deserted forest. Does it make a sound? Any story that goes against The Narrative is just a tree falling in a forest.

chickelit said...

Garage notes: We're they talking about this much before yesterday?

It's a Friday thing by tradition. Dump and run.

Enjoy your weekend!

lincolntf said...

One of the biggest barriers to MSM coverage is Obama's personal support for the "let children die" legislation he co-sponsored in IL. If Barack Obama was a doctor, he'd be Kermit Gosnell.

Baron Zemo said...

Women want the right to choose.

This is what they chose.

They have to live with it.

edutcher said...

victoria said...

Really, I've known about this story for weeks. Horrible horrible man and what he did. Where was the right wing media? Someone said talking about FLOTUS and vacations and such. Where is the indignation? No no, for the right wing press this is not "sexy" or "Obamay" enough. they can't handle a real story about government abuses and a man run amock. They'd rather cover crap that no one cares about.

There is no "Conservative" media, sweetie, as we all well know. People like Mark Levin and Bob Belvedere have been screaming about this for weeks, but they're not "media", as such.

However, if you really want to understand how corrupt the Lefty Ministry of Propaganda is, all you have to do is look at this story.

And the word is "amok".

chickelit said...

That photo? Empty pews at the church of truth.

AprilApple said...

Garage - You can check out NRO yourself.
National Review

Wall Street Journal is financial inside baseball and not at all equivalent to a major media source like ABC, CBS, or NBC news.

As already mentioned, Megan Kelly on FOX has been discussing this case for last few days.
Abortion trial blackout

Rabel said...

Chicklit:

"Is there a pro-Kermit constituency?"

These guys

Mom said...

"Bureaucratic inertia is not exactly news. We understand that," it states. "But we think this was something more. We think the reason no one acted is because the women in question were poor and of color, because the victims were infants without identities, and because the subject was the political football of abortion."

Who is on this grand jury? These people ought to get medals.

chickelit said...

Mentilsoup stirs: This is laughably preposterous. Sanctified? It's akin to saying that Castle Rock v. Gonzales is responsible for every murder committed in the United States.

I agree that "sanctified" is an inappropriate verb. But looking the other way from atrocity has a long history which most people recognize and revile. It's quite likely that authorities--people in charge--looked away in this case.

AprilApple said...

This "Doctor" spread venereal disease with unwashed tools, killed live babies in the most vicious cruel and sadistic manor, killed 2 women, cut into bowels and wombs. Philly - who votes for who in that town? 100% the one.

chickelit said...

Philly - who votes for who in that town? 100% the one.

Ouch

Hagar said...

"Conservative news media" would be pretty much Fox News, which is not all that conservative, and possibly the WSJ editorial page, which is opinion rather than "news." In any case both get their "news" like everyone else, from AP, UPI, Reuter's, etc., unless they happen to stumble across it on the internet from the local news.

MadisonMan said...

I also didn't realize this hadn't been covered. I guess I need to read/watch more msm so I know what I'm missing?

Something like that.

Revenant said...

We're they talking about this much before yesterday?

National Review has been mentioning the case regularly for over two years.

Shana said...

They aren't reporting much on the same thing at a Delaware clinic either:

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/10/video-delaware-planned-parenthood-clinic-closed-after-whistleblowers-go-public-about-conditions/

sydney said...

This really is an atrocious and sickening story. Even a diehard pro-choice, partial birth abortion supporter should be outraged about this. Look at the first picture at The Atlantic link. That's an exam table - caked with old blood. The grand jury report says that there were fetal parts and whole fetuses stuffed in all kinds of containers including old cat food boxes. And one body was in the employee food refrigerator. (Hello, OSHA?!) There were cats walking around the place and cat feces in the hallways. This place was visited by inspectors of various agencies on more than one occasion and yet nothing was done. The average street food vendor is held to higher standards.

Patients died, unqualified employees administered medications, other physicians complained to the state medical board about him, yet nothing was done. Atrocious.

Saint Croix said...

"Is there a pro-Kermit constituency?"

Just in the Ivy League. Peter Singer (Princeton) argues that parents should have up to 2 years to kill their children.

Ronald Dworkin (Oxford and NYU) writes, "a human being has no moral right to life...until sometime after birth."

Justice Blackmun (Harvard), in footnote 22 of Roe, recites a pagan theory that newborns are not alive.

These Ivy League intellectuals are full of theories about why it's okay to kill children outside the birth canal. They are the intellectual architects of savage butchery.

AprilApple said...

The democrat party forces our taxes to flow to Planned Parenthood.


Saint Croix said...

They aren't reporting much on the same thing at a Delaware clinic either:

Delaware has no health inspections of abortion clinics. None. Zippo, until somebody complains.

It's unbelievable.

Can't wait for Mentilsoup to tell us this has nothing to do with Roe v. Wade. It's like this regulatory breakdown and disregard for human life is a coincidence or something.

Any libertarians want to opine on what an "abortion free of interference from the state" is like?

chickelit said...

Just in the Ivy League. Peter Singer (Princeton) argues that parents should have up to 2 years to kill their children.

That's not even allowed for pets. Who funds Singer and why?

DADvocate said...

Searched for Gosnell coverage over at MSNBC. Nothing. Exactly nothing. How sick is that?

http://tv.msnbc.com/?shows=&s=gosnell

Adam Lanza was a sick, deranged person. Dr. Kermit Gosnell is a sane, rational man killing babies for fun and profit. The MSM avoids the story because it might bring and outcry to control the precious "right" of a woman to kill her unborn child.

Inga said...

Greed is also a sickness, of the soul.

Chip Ahoy said...

All of the right wing blogs have been covering the case for as long as there's been anything to cover. Claim to not having heard of it until recently or now speaks to your selection of sources and your own flow of information. It speaks to your filters. It is an important story no matter what your stance, it affects everything else under discussion, guns, marriages, adoptions, race, immigration, everything.

John Lynch said...

" After 1993, even that pro form a effort came to an end. Not because of administrative ennui, although there had been plenty. Instead, the Pennsylvania Department of Health abruptly decided, for political reasons, to stop inspecting abortion clinics at all..."

What could go wrong?

John Lynch said...

A common pro-choice argument is that banning abortion would mean a return to back alleys and dead women.

Ahem.

Birches said...

I'd have to contend with the argument that the "right wing media" hasn't covered this.

Breitbart has stuff from way back in March.

Just because Fox News isn't leading doesn't mean the coverage hasn't happened.

Saint Croix said...

Claim to not having heard of it until recently or now speaks to your selection of sources and your own flow of information.

Conor Friedersdorf is a liberal, I think? Certainly not a right-wing Republican.

I was very impressed with his article on Obama and drone strikes. That was really strong stuff.

And I'm glad to hear that the Washington Post is finally going to start covering the story. See this from Erik Wemple.

DADvocate said...

I'm certain Gosnell killed more children than Adam Lanza and we heard the faux outrage over that. It's not about the children. It's about government control over us.

Inga said...

The government didn't control the clinic, they stopped inspections. Too little government interference, too much greed.

Methadras said...

Hey, it doesn't fit the narrative of the left. That abortion is a right to kill another human being much less an innocent baby human being. Nope, why paint the institution and act of abortion as nothing more than a genocidal infanticide. It's the untold American Holocaust and no one on the left gives a shit.

Saint Croix said...

The interpretation of Roe v. Wade has less than zero to do with the insoluble evil on display here.

An abortion doctor is being prosecuted for murder for killing babies in an abortion clinic.

I think a lot of journalists are seeing a rather close connection between this case and our national abortion practices. Which is why a lot of journalists do not want to cover this case.

chickelit said...

Gosnell violated all three aspects of Bill Clinton's abortion mantra: safe, legal, and rare.

Inga said...

So libertarians still think less government interference is a good thing? It's obvious when it comes to life and death what the answer should be.

Saint Croix said...

The government didn't control the clinic, they stopped inspections. Too little government interference

First the government dehumanized the babies. And then they left the abortion clinics alone.

So, yes, it's a libertarian means ("choice") but it's for a socialist ends. They want to remove unwanted infants from our society. See, for instance, Justice Blackmun's dissent in Beal v. Doe, where Justice Blackmun reduces a baby to a cost estimate on a balance sheet.

the cost of a nontherapeutic abortion is far less than the cost of maternity care and delivery, and holds no comparison whatsoever with the welfare costs that will burden the State for the new indigents and their support in the long, long years ahead.

Justice Blackmun goes on to compare the poor to a "cancer." And he sees abortion as a mechanism for removing this cancer from our society.

I think that short opinion is perhaps the most vile thing Blackmun has ever written. And he's so oblivious to his own evil, that's the horrifying part.

Inga said...

No one should get away with dehumanizing these unborn babies, St Croix. They are human and it is murder after a certain point in development. When is that point? 9 weeks?Neural activity? We have laws governing brain death, based on lack of activity on an EEG.

exiledonmainst said...

Inga, I suggest you actually read the Grand Jury report rather than swallowing the lefty spin on this story.

According to the Grand Jury, there was lack of oversight because because pro-choice forces pressured state officials to not enforce any law relating to abortion.

A rather inconvenient truth, that.

The moral of this atrocious story is not "We need more government!"

Saint Croix said...

That's not even allowed for pets. Who funds Singer and why?

Singer would protect pets, dogs, all adult animals. He's a radical animal rights guy. That would just make him odd. But it's his dehumanizing project, his desire to reduce humanity to just another animal, and to remove the unwanted ones, that's what makes him really special.

He's funded by Princeton. Steve Forbes (an alum) has cut off any support to his school after they hired Singer.

Singer is not just a professor, by the way, but he's the head of their bioethics department.

Roger J. said...

As Chip Ahoy notes, this story has been out there since Gosnell was indicted IIRC in 2011 If the low informati.on people that make up our electorate have not noted it, then they are abysmally ignorant. But then....

Roger J. said...

Can any sentient human not read the facts that have been presented in trial and not be repulsed? If not, then you are not human beings. You are in fact animals at the same level of Gosnell. Shame

DADvocate said...

So libertarians still think less government interference is a good thing? It's obvious when it comes to life and death what the answer should be.

Killing babies is a left wing thing. The left wing government didn't care about babies getting killed. The only reason they found out is because of possible illegal drugs.

You just don't want to face the outcome of your political philosophy. You're the supporter of baby killing.

This libertarian believes the essentials are life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. To enjoy the last two, you have to have the first. Liberals don't believe in the first two.

You resort to the lie that libertarians are anarchists, or your just plain stupid. I'm betting you're both.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Exiled we can't trust private enterprises whose bottom line is money, look at Gosnell's greed. Why are hospitals and nursing homes so heavily regulated? As they well should be.

Pogo said...

Gosnell's clinic is the model for Obamacare for the elderly and disabled.

Inga said...

Libertarians are all over the map on abortion. Look at the Libertarian plank. We discussed this at length yesterday on a very long thread.

Saint Croix said...

No one should get away with dehumanizing these unborn babies, St Croix. They are human and it is murder after a certain point in development. When is that point? 9 weeks?Neural activity? We have laws governing brain death, based on lack of activity on an EEG.

Inga, thanks for the softball pitch!

Under current law in all 50 states, and Washington D.C., human beings die when we lose all activity in our cerebral cortex and brain stem.

Thus, if we recognized the baby's humanity, and applied our death and homicide statutes to her, abortion would qualify as a homicide 6 weeks after conception (usually 8 weeks after last menstrual period).

Of course states are free to change their death statutes. But that is our current understanding of the biological circumstances of a person's death. And I feel strongly we should apply our death statutes to all people, including babies, born or unborn.

DADvocate said...

Libertarians are all over the map on abortion. Look at the Libertarian plank. We discussed this at length yesterday on a very long thread.

Then why are you attacking libertarians? It's women who primarily support abortion and who go nuts at the slightest interference of their right to kill children. Just the other day a woman from Planned Parenthood was saying it was OK to kill live birth children, aka post-birth abortion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ5e6N9itVA

Having trouble facing up to what you and your friends are?

MisterBuddwing said...

Better late than never?

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/tonight-on-ac360-doctors-house-of-horrors/?hpt=ac_mid

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roger J. said...

Inga--If I may--dragging political philosophy into a discussion of cold, calculated murder of new borns does nothing to further the debate--this trial it seems to me is about a man who deliberately murdered human beings. Is that not obvious?

the "philosophical issues" IMO take second place to the facts of the case--neither liberals, libertarians or conservatives should abjure their philosophy and look at what Gosnell did.

Inga said...

Perhaps now is the time to have a national discussion on Life Statutes for unborn babies, it's time, past time. I think even pro choice people would agree, we do need to DO SOMETHING. And libertarians can come along in the discussion or balk at "doing something".

Inga said...

Roger YES, of course it's obvious, what do you think I'm talking about?!

Roger J. said...

my pardon, please--please delete the word neither in my foregoing post.

Roger J. said...

Inga--it wasn't clear to me why you introduced "libertarians" into the debate--if I understood your point (and I know you have made your position clear) why it became an issue political philosophy

Roger J. said...

what Gosnell did was evil pure and simple--a political philosophy incapable of recognizeing evil is a terrible philosophy

pm317 said...

This is sickening and horrifying -- this in the country with the most wealth and rule of law, the envy of the world. The liberals and Democrats have failed themselves -- law of the land makes abortion legal. Instead of focusing on making them safer and rare, they are fighting some politically contrived battle. They should be ashamed of themselves.

{And, yeah, go Kirsten Powers! We need more like her.}

Inga said...

Revenant, who is a libertarian says the government needs to keep out of abortion. So do other libertarians.

I as a liberal and pro choicer think we need to have laws that defines when life begins and as we do for when it ends in order to avoid such scenarios as Gosnell, don't you understand?

I believe St Croix agrees with me.

Inga said...

Roger I agree with you.

Shana said...

Many libertarians are pro-life be cause they see abortion as a violation of the most basic human freedom - life.

chickelit said...

I missed the rationale for Inga's most recent obsession with libertarians. Somebody please give the executive summary.

Thanks

sane_voter said...

If Gosnell aborted the babies with a gun . . .

chickelit said...

I think she nodded the other night when Ritmo called revenant a "glibertarian."

Is it just personal?

Inga said...

Ther are several kinds of libertarians. There are also ones like Original Mike, who I respect and like, who also thinks government should stay out of controlling abortion.

At any rate I don't want to get off topic and get yelled at by DBQ.

Mark said...

Garage, I thought the "right wing media" was to be scorned and reviled, and the MSM was to entrusted to inform society of the important stuff.

Motes, beams, etc.

Mark said...

And FWIW, I like it that all the movers have decided to hate on Libertarians. Shows we're doing something right.

Saint Croix said...

I think she nodded the other night when Ritmo called revenant a "glibertarian."

I don't if that's right, but it's definitely funny.

Roger J. said...

Miss Inga--I regard myself as a libertarian/conservative with not enough time to explain the differences--And like Original Mike and others I believe that the less government interference is personal choices the better off we will but. But in this particular case, Gosnell murdered newborns pure and simple, and I don't think any libertarian, liberal or conservative should think otherwise--this is not a political debate--this about murder--cold calculated murder and it is heinous

Revenant said...

Too little government interference, too much greed.

Glad to see Inga's building bridges with the social conservatives. I'm sure they can all agree a strict regime of abortion-clinic inspections is needed.

I, on the other hand, would observe that the government already promised to do that. They passed the laws requiring it. They collected the taxes to fund it. They hired the inspectors to do it. And then they said "thanks for the money, suckers" and took a twenty-year coffee break.

This is normal government behavior.

See, Gosnell is rich, politically connected, a member of the locally dominant ethnic group, and running an business in an industry that donates vast sums of money to the local ruling party. He's the kind of person we're told we desperately NEED government to protect us from -- rich, greedy, and immoral. And, predictably, the government did nothing. Actually that's not true: they gave the public a false sense of security, so that people who might have said "this clinic seems filthy, something must be wrong" could be reassured that everything must be ok since the government had Top Men keeping the place in line.

Oh, they did plenty of OTHER inspections (which is why it is funny to hear the problem described as "not enough inspections"). The people making sure you buy a license before you start that sideline business selling Beanie Babies on eBay? They're plenty busy. But keeping poor people from dying on the operating table just isn't very lucrative for government employees.

chickelit said...

And FWIW, I like it that all the movers have decided to hate on Libertarians. Shows we're doing something right.

I'm a self-described conversative.

Inga said...

Libertaraians need to come down to earth. Pie in th sky and unicorns won't keep babies from dying. Liberals and pro choicers need to be HONEST with themselves, face the music, do the right thing.

Saint Croix said...

I like to call myself a libertarian, until I get into a conversation with a libertarian, and he starts bitching about health inspections, or fire departments, or public libraries, and that's when I sigh my sad sigh, and realize that I'm a Republican.

Shana said...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/12/Woman-Dies-in-Partial-Birth-Abortion-Performed-by-Doctor-Linked-to-Sebelius

He's killed at least two women, besides the whole stabbing babies in the back of the skull and sucking their brains out part. Gosnell is not an outlier, and it isn't libertarians protecting these ghouls.

Roger J. said...

Inga--libertarians I am sure should come down to earth--as should liberals, progressives, conservatives, anarchists and the like. don't see it happening unfortunately and the result will be gosnells abortion clinic.

Inga said...

Shana, yes libertarians are as complicit. Less government, private enterprise is KING! Oh, a little greed won't hurt anyone.

Revenant said...

I missed the rationale for Inga's most recent obsession with libertarians.

She noticed that it was a good way to get people to pay attention to her.

Shana said...

When they tried to pass a partial birth abortion ban - who was beating the drum? NARAL and Planned Parenthood, that's who. Libertarians are a dirstraction and you know it. War on Women!

Roger J. said...

Inga--it really isn't about greed--its about being left alone. That is my brief summary of libertarian philosophy

Inga said...

Also, as I said yesterday, so many of you want to be libertarians, why aren't you happy with being conservatives? They are more principled.

Inga said...

But Roger, look what happened when Gosnell's clinic was "left alone".

C Stanley said...

Inga, you are mistaken if you think that the lack of oversight is a libertarian thing. The prochoice lobby routinely protests any regulation whatsoever of abortion. If it is a law requiring abortion clinics to meet the same standards as other medical facilities, they protest that there is no need for that and prolifers are simply trying to shut down clinics. Don't take my word for it, go look at Think Progress blog which has been all over this in recent weeks as a few states are passing legislation like that.

The people leading these protests and putting pressure on the politicians are Democrats, Inga, not libertarians.

Shana said...

Why do we have to only identify as one thing? I am a conservative with libertarian leanings. I think war on drugs has been disastrous, for instance. Very few people are pure ideologues.

Inga said...

Whatever Revenant, you want it all, to be left alone and thrive in a society of greedy unscrupulous people, pie in the sky foolishness.

Roger J. said...

Inga--conservatism at least Edmund Burkes conservatism is my lodestar. I regard libertarianism as an off shoot of Burke's political philosophy. The two are related but not mutually exclusive.

C Stanley said...

I know there are all varieties of libertarians and some are more hardcore than others but I've never heard one say that the issuing of medical licenses shouldn't be regulated by the state. Assuring that abortion providers abide bynthose same rules is no different than that.

Revenant said...

Libertaraians need to come down to earth. Pie in th sky and unicorns won't keep babies from dying.

We can speculate about whether a libertarian government could "keep babies from dying", I suppose. Maybe it wouldn't.

On the other hand, we have in front of us objective proof that liberal government doesn't keep babies from dying. We don't need to speculate; we have positive proof that your political philosophy is a failure in that regard. :)

Roger J. said...

Miss Inga--I would suggest, contra your opinion about society, that most people in society are decent, care about the fellow persons and are altruistic. There are, of course exceptions, but I prefer my world view.

Inga said...

I'm being VERY honest here, as I said its past time for pro choicers to do the right thing.

Define when life needs to be protected by Life Statutes. I think you might be surprised that there are more pro choicers who feel as I do.

Shana said...

"It isn't feminists who are responsible for chopped up baby parts in refrigerators, and dead girls and women. No, it is those all-powerful and influential libertarians. Look, squirrel!"

- Inga

Inga said...

So is yours Rev.

C Stanley said...

Define when life needs to be protected by Life Statutes. I think you might be surprised that there are more pro choicers who feel as I do.

And you might be surprised that there are many who don't.

exiledonmainst said...

"The people leading these protests and putting pressure on the politicians are Democrats, Inga, not libertarians."

Inga, you are being dishonest by not admitting that fact. This story is not about "libertarian greed."

Liberals - your team, Inga - is wholly responsible for this. Stop trying to shift blame onto others.

Inga said...

Shana you're being foolish, I said no such thing.

Carnifex said...

I'm sorry but the abortion apologists are just excusing evil. It is wrong to take a human life. Even capital punishment is evil. NO one should have the hubris of thinking they have the wisdom to decide who lives or dies.

You can make an argument for abortion to save the life of the mother, but that is it. And it's only an argument.

I've lived long enough to know that I can't see the inherit evil or goodness of someones soul, so I how could I make a final judgement one way or other?

As far as media coverage, it was out there on the alternative media to be found. If you didn't find it, then perhaps you didn't want to find it?

As an aside, when my wife and I first started dating she was pro-choice. During a discussion with her about partial-birth abortion, she believed I had made the practice up, she finally saw the light of how evil an act it is. Since then she has evolved all the way to pro-life, like myself.(except I'm still working on her attitude about capital punishment)

Tim said...

Roger J. said...

"Miss Inga--I would suggest, contra your opinion about society, that most people in society are decent, care about the fellow persons and are altruistic. There are, of course exceptions, but I prefer my world view."

Yes, except for those who want to leach off the earnings of others, and use the power of government to do so. Not much altruism there.

Boundless selfishness? Yes.

exiledonmainst said...

Opps, that should be "are wholly responsible for this."

I always notice typos the second I hit "publish."

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Exiled I didn't say it was, I said it was about Gosnell's greed.

Libertarians play into it by their hands off philosophy, which may not have been a factor inthe Gosnell case, but could be in some future endevor that requires health inspections by...... GOVERNMENT.


Tim said...

Carnifex said...

"I'm sorry but the abortion apologists are just excusing evil. It is wrong to take a human life. Even capital punishment is evil. NO one should have the hubris of thinking they have the wisdom to decide who lives or dies."

Yes, but some people seek to be immunized from the consequences of their choices, and there are votes to be gained from ensuring little or no consequences for bad choices.

chickelit said...

Define when life needs to be protected by Life Statutes. I think you might be surprised that there are more pro choicers who feel as I do.

Science will nibble and eat at the outlying fringe of when that is, pushing it ever closer to conception, IMO. In the meantime, Gosnell personifies a practitioner beyond the limits of legality and morality but who still has apparent political support. That's the trending data.

Roger J. said...

Tim--appreciated your comment, but on a blog it is difficult to convey one's political philosophy--I do agree with Thomas Hobbes although I think he was far too pessimistic. There is evil in the world. So I also adhere to the sage of Malmsbury's admonitions about man in the state of nature

Revenant said...

Whatever Revenant, you want it all, to be left alone and thrive in a society of greedy unscrupulous people

All societies are societies of greedy unscrupulous people. :)

Libertarianism is about limiting the ability of greedy and unscrupulous people to band together. Objectively speaking, most of the murder and theft in human history has been carried out by governments.

Shana said...

And once again, name one abortion clinic that hasn't been inspected because a libertarian prevented it. Pro-choice activists and lobbyists prevent the inspections. Feminists. The Vagina Costume Brigade. Sandra Fluke fangirls.

Revenant said...

So is yours Rev.

Philadelphia has a libertarian government? What an amusing delusion!

Tim said...

Health inspections to stop murder...

As if it were merely a food safety issue, or a stray, dirty surgical instrument, instead of a pair of scissors to a newborn's throat.

Over and over again.

I wonder if Inga is smart enough to wonder why people here think she's dumb?

Carnifex said...

Inga makes the common liberal premise that if your conservative or libertarian, that you are by definition, an anarchist too.

We are not saying NO government, we're saying there is too much and it needs to be trimmed.

Do we really need a Dept of Education for instance? Really? Don't we all want the best education possible for our kids?

I'm not going to go through the litany... ain't worth my time.

exiledonmainst said...

"Greed" is the least of Gosnell's sins.

This is a man who cut off the feet of the babies he aborted and kept them in jars in his office, like hunter's trophies.

chickelit said...

Yes, but some people seek to be immunized from the consequences of their choices, and there are votes to be gained from ensuring little or no consequences for bad choices.

There should be a concomitant acceptance and forgiveness towards a mother that "yes, you made a bad choice, but you can live with giving an adoptive family more choices."

Inga said...

Shana, you're being dishonest. I didn't say libertarians prevented inspections. BUt the libertarian philosophy is HANDS OFF GOVERNMENT. Get it?

The government of PA that neglected to inspect the clinc/ clinics are to blame. If they were pressured by the Pro Choce movement then damn the Pro Choice movement, get it?

Can't we try to stop fighting each other and DO SOMETHING?

Tim said...

"Objectively speaking, most of the murder and theft in human history has been carried out by governments."

94,000,000+ killed by the International Socialists running states.

Thank God Communism is dying out.

Soon though, the number of unborn children legally aborted will match that number.

Hooray for us.

Inga said...

Tim, I think you are a stupid as a box of rocks, I never wonder.

Tim said...

Well Inga, that only goes to show how little you really know.

C Stanley said...

Would you be willing to work in opposition to those in the prochoice movement who fight against regulation of abortion in any form, Inga?

Revenant said...

94,000,000+ killed by the International Socialists running states.

And the sad thing is that the 20th century was actually the *least* bloody century on record, in terms of government-sponsored killing.

Roger J. said...

Inga--please. do not conflate basic libertarian philosophy with specific events. IMO most libertarians do ascribe to government some basic tasks.

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