April 15, 2013

"But, why wasn’t more written sooner?"

Asks Melinda Henneberger at The Washington Post.
One colleague viewed Gosnell’s alleged atrocities as a local crime story, though I can’t think of another mass murder, with hundreds of victims, that we ever saw that way. Another said it was just too lurid, though that didn’t keep us from covering Jeffrey Dahmer, or that aspiring cannibal at the NYPD.

Yet another said it’s because the rest of the country doesn’t care about Philadelphia — that one was especially creative, I thought....
That would explain covering the cannibal cop. It happened in New York. As they say: Only in New York! But who cared about Milwaukee?
I say we didn’t write more because the only abortion story most outlets ever cover in the news pages is every single threat or perceived threat to abortion rights. 
Come on. Add the obvious: The media perceive the Gosnell story as a threat to abortion rights.

By the way, why are we calling what he did "abortion"? Just as a matter of clarity in the language. The grand jury report says that his method of ridding women of their unwanted late-term pregnancies was to induce labor and deliver the child. That's not abortion. That's childbirth. We're not even in the gray area where a strange term like "partial-birth abortion" could be used. It was complete birth, followed by murder. Why don't abortion rights proponents come down hard on that distinction? He wasn't an abortionist (in most of these instances), but an obstetrician-murderer. If abortion rights proponents don't want to talk about that, I'd like to hear exactly why they have a problem.

223 comments:

1 – 200 of 223   Newer›   Newest»
Jay said...

The "colleague" who said it was a "local crime story" went on to say Akin was covered because they covered "policy"

Which "policy" was the Akin gaffe releated to again?

edutcher said...

There were complaints, off and on apparently, for years, but there's another angle here and that is race.

Not only the practitioner, but many of the victims.

Could it be the dirty little secret of the American Left that they agree with Margaret Sanger and want the darker races controlled?

PS Thank you for making this a crusade, Madame.

Tank said...

Why do they have a problem?

I think, because the less you talk about "womens' health care," and the more you talk about what actually happens with abortion/murder the ickier the whole thing gets. An icky thing is not a popular thing.

As soon as you start talking about he mechanics of what is going on it gets very unpleasant.

There are some other currently PC things you're not supposed to talk about the mechanics of too, also because it gets kind of icky.

Nonapod said...

It's funny too watch liberal journalists struggle and soul search with the obvious. It takes an herioc level of cognitive dissonance to be a journalist these days.

Shouting Thomas said...

Did the women know that he was inducing labor to deliver the child?

If so, what is their guilt? Aren't they complicit?

Why do we so routinely try to find a way to excuse women for their actions? If women are deliberately seeking out a doctor to deliver and dispose of a late term pregnancy, aren't they accessories to the murder?

Althouse, you haven't had a word to say about the behavior of these "patients" of the murderous doctor. Why?

Have we just concluded that women are never responsible for their behavior if they are in a stressful, difficult situation?

C Stanley said...

I think in the testimony it was said that he did have his staff administering something that was supposed to kill the babies in utero, but it wasn't effective in many of the cases (if it's even sensible to think of drug efficacy in such Orwellian terms- not inducing a 100% mortality rate.)

So that was abortion, just not done "correctly".

Widmerpool said...

Being influenced by sentiment is A OK for gun control, but not, heaven forbid, for this.

tim maguire said...

No one wants to come down hard on the distinction because there is no distinction. Abortion rights proponents maintain their delusion that they are not vicious savages by not thinking carefully about what it is they support.

Kermit Gosnell removes the veil, exposes the lie, so, obviously, talking about him cannot be allowed.

Colonel Angus said...

By the way, why are we calling what he did "abortion"? Just as a matter of clarity in the language. The grand jury report says that his method of ridding women of their unwanted late-term pregnancies was to induce labor and deliver the child. That's not abortion. That's childbirth.

Leftists have expended so much energy demanding no restrictions on abortion that your demand for clarity was bound to get lost in the debate.

bagoh20 said...

Because the distinction is semantics like calling Jeffrey Dahmer a cannibal, as if he just found the bodies laying around. The mothers were there for abortions, which is killing your child at some point, and all these were at that point just like many abortions are.

If the clinic just did it more professionally, with better use of stainless steel and curtains, the objections would all be limited to the pro-life side. The baby isn't really something else if you only pull out the head to stick in the scissors.

Where is the "out of site - out of mind" tag?

Geoff Matthews said...

If they couldn't distinguish between these acts and abortion, maybe they shouldn't be in support of abortion.
And if they couldn't be in support of abortion, then their friends may hate them. And if they lost their friends, they'd never work in this field again.

AprilApple said...

blah blah excuses..

Gosnell cannot be touched because his late term abortions show everyone what late term abortion is all about. Obama is FOR late term abortion. This is the big fat reason the msm refuse to touch the story.

tiger said...

That's some nice clear writing in headline's last paragraph there Lou.

+1

bagoh20 said...

If you struggle with finding the evil in something this horrific, then the chances are you will put up with a lot of evil, and probably cover up some yourself.

X said...

he appears to be a quack too. affirmative action meets abortion rights.

Jay said...

By the way, why are we calling what he did "abortion"?

Because, as Justice Kennedy noted in GONZALES v. CARHART:

Abortion methods vary depending to some extent on the preferences of the physician and, of course, on the term of the pregnancy and the resulting stage of the unborn child’s development.
...
The doctor grips a fetal part with the forceps and pulls it back through the cervix and vagina, continuing to pull even after meeting resistance from the cervix. .


Also:
Here is another description from a nurse who witnessed the same method performed on a 26-week fetus and who testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee:

“ ‘Dr. Haskell went in with forceps and grabbed the baby’s legs and pulled them down into the birth canal. Then he delivered the baby’s body and the arms—everything but the head. The doctor kept the head right inside the uterus


You simply can not assert with a straight face that what he did was not abortion according to Planned Parenthood, for example.

Martha said...

Abortion rights have evolved into women's rights and women's rights and implications thereof are not to be examined too closely or held to any standard.

The product of conception--aka "the fetus/baby"---has no rights. No right to life, liberty, or right to emerge from the uterus and not have a scissor snip his /her infant spine.

Martha said...

Abortion rights have evolved into women's rights and women's rights and implications thereof are not to be examined too closely or held to any standard.

The product of conception--aka "the fetus/baby"---has no rights. No right to life, liberty, or right to emerge from the uterus and not have a scissor snip his /her infant spine.

Matt said...

"By the way, why are we calling what he did 'abortion'?"

Maybe because of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qEv1afKaLhA

bagoh20 said...

The only people who could have avoided this horror, were the mothers. If the doctor never existed, we still have fetuses past 20 weeks alive with nowhere to go, and a community of wolves circling.

AprilApple said...

Partial birth abortion and full birth abortion are equally evil and must be labeled murder by all sane and good people. (Of course our democrat betters in our repugnant progressive "media" do not fall under the classification of "sane and good" - I'm looking at you MSDNC and CNN)
If the baby is viable outside of the womb, and you kill it, you are killing it. What is that called again?
Oh yeah- murder. but leftists don't have any heart for these children.

speaking of hack media.
Chris Matthews can join Brian Ross at NBC for the "we deliver speculation as news" award.

Kohath said...

Because abortion rights proponents have one objective: end of pregnancy without a living child. Gosnell ended pregnancies and the children died, so that's a success for them. Why nitpick the method he used?

G Joubert said...

Come on. Add the obvious: The media perceive the Gosnell story as a threat to abortion rights.

Don't leave out the racial component. It's a twofer!

Ignorance is Bliss said...

If abortion rights proponents don't want to talk about that, I'd like to hear exactly why they have a problem.

The reason is that everybody understands that, had he performed abortions on these same babies, it would be just as horrific, even though the killing part took place out-of-sight, inside the mother.

mrs. e said...

Come on. Add the obvious: The media perceive the Gosnell story as a threat to abortion rights.

Which doesn’t make any sense, to me, because this is what the pro-choice side is fighting against. Clearly, these women were desperate - desperate enough to risk their lives with an unlicensed provider.

Renee said...

But then we have to talk about proper third trimester abortions, done properly in a medical setting, and that procedure is just as horrifying.

That's why abortion rights activists won't make the distinction. I think they need to talk about why women were waiting past 20 weeks, which is rare for abortion.

Renee said...

How much of Gosnell's practice was third trimester, I'm assuming the majority of his patients were 1st trimester patients?

furious_a said...

Another said it was just too lurid, though that didn’t keep us from covering Jeffrey Dahmer, or that aspiring cannibal at the NYPD...

...or the day-after-day-after-day Wapo front-page Abu Ghraib photo spreads. No squeamishness there.

Michael said...

Mrs E: Gosnell had a medical license

bagoh20 said...

"Clearly, these women were desperate - desperate enough to risk their lives with an unlicensed provider."

But how do end up 20 weeks pregnant if you don't want a child? All I can imagine is severe stupidity, selfishness, and/or sloth. It's disgusting.

Marshal said...

Another said it was just too lurid, though that didn’t keep us from covering Jeffrey Dahmer, or that aspiring cannibal at the NYPD.

Or Newtown.

Shooting kindergardeners is horrible enough to override the constitution but not too horrible to drive 24/7 cable coverage?

Gosnell is a local crime story, but Newtown wasn't?

Be serious, the only reason for the difference in coverage is that one event supports the leftist agenda and the other doesn't.

Original Mike said...

"We're not even in the gray area where a strange term like "partial-birth abortion" could be used. It was complete birth, followed by murder. Why don't abortion rights proponents come down hard on that distinction?"

It's a dishonest distinction.

Pogo said...

We hide what is shameful.

Hidden behind the uterus, we cannot see an infant, so killing the abstraction is made acceptable. Hence the objection to ultrasounds before committing to abortion.

Once the infant is delivered, it is no longer hidden by the uterus,and one is brought face to face, literally, with who we are killing. Same devices, same death. But now no longer hidden.

Ignoring the story is a way to keep the shameful thing hidden. Calling it "not a real abortion" is the same game.

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face."

C Stanley said...

"We're not even in the gray area where a strange term like "partial-birth abortion" could be used. It was complete birth, followed by murder. Why don't abortion rights proponents come down hard on that distinction?"

It's a dishonest distinction.

4/15/13, 11:02 AM

And that would stop the pro -abortion lobby?

Marshal said...

mrs. e said...
Which doesn’t make any sense, to me, because [unsafe medical conditions] is what the pro-choice side is fighting against.


It makes more sense when you understand the goal you mention is what they promote for public consumption. Their true goal is to allow women to do whatever they want with the child.

bagoh20 said...

Abu Ghraib was on the front page for a month straight. People trained to kill, but who only abused without shedding blood.

This story is again peopled trained to kill, but who actually did plenty of it, but did it "improperly".

AprilApple said...

Renee said;;
But then we have to talk about proper third trimester abortions, done properly in a medical setting, and that procedure is just as horrifying.

Agreed. The pro-abortion progressive left do not want to make any distinctions.

Pastafarian said...

Here's the defense that Gosnell's attorney should present:

What difference does it make, exactly, whether or not the abortion doctor first extracts the infant, then kills it; or kills it and then extracts it?

The only difference: One way, we have to hear it cry, and see it writhe.

This particular abortion clinic has been described as a "chamber of horrors" because apparently, a few people had to actually witness what normally goes on every day in every abortion clinic. At those clinics, the doctor has the good sense to shelter us from the truth by doing the exact same things Gosnell did, but inside the womb, so we don't have to see and hear it.

Shouting Thomas said...

Nobody even wants to touch the notion that the "patients" bear some culpability.

Well, a couple of commentators tiptoed very close to that before walking away.

If you are looking for Reason #1 why feminism is a lie and a botch, here you have it...

We won't hold women responsible for any level of outrageous, violent behavior. We always search for a way to excuse them, out of chivalry.

We haven't heard a thing yet from Althouse about Jodi Arias who claims she had the "right" to murder her boyfriend because he was "abusive." And, Arias has found "experts" in domestic violence to back her up at trial.

Renee said...

Aren't they passing new laws, that a woman can safely labor and deliver a baby in a hospital anonymously and leave the hospital without the baby and it isn't a crime.

If you're already pass 20+ weeks and considering an abortion, just wait another 20 weeks and deliver a baby for free and safely!

TosaGuy said...

"Which doesn’t make any sense, to me, because this is what the pro-choice side is fighting against. Clearly, these women were desperate - desperate enough to risk their lives with an unlicensed provider."

Indeed it is...for some. But the pro-abortions side has invested everything in creating the perception that abortion is simply a woman's choice, not a medical procedure where death is an outcome.

Gosnell's horror factory attacks that perception and will attack it even more as the pro-abortion side hamhands its response.

Jay said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay said...

mrs. e said...
Which doesn’t make any sense, to me, because this is what the pro-choice side is fighting against. Clearly, these women were desperate - desperate enough to risk their lives with an unlicensed provider.


False, and false.

Gosnell was licensed.

The "pro-choice" policies of the PA Gov (both Ridge & Rendell) led to this.

Nobody on the "pro-choice" side fought for, or fights now, for more inspections of clinics.

Anthony said...

I'm thinking a better analogy would be the recent kerfuffle over the Oklahoma dentist who was using dirty equipment and junk. No policy, no deaths, but it was all over the news the second anyone heard about it.

MayBee said...


Which doesn’t make any sense, to me, because this is what the pro-choice side is fighting against. Clearly, these women were desperate - desperate enough to risk their lives with an unlicensed provider.


No, this is not what the pro-choice side is fighting against. At least not the planned-parenthood, NARAL, Democratic Party portion of the pro choice side.

This is what they are fighting for. Sure, they want it done well, but come on. What kind of soulless bastard is going to run a late term abortion clinic?
Who is the person who chooses to kill perfectly healthy near-term babies for a living?
Someone ghoulish.

C Stanley said...

Now that they've been forced to cover this, the liberal journalists and bloggers will find all of the narratives that support the policy of abortion on demand. They know though that there's a real risk that the coalition they've built of voters who support more limited abortion rights are going to recoil in horror at what they've helped enable.

bagoh20 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

I have no problem with Althouse's description of Gosnell as an obstetrician - murderer. Thanks for making that distinction so clear.

Jay said...

mrs. e said...
Which doesn’t make any sense, to me, because this is what the pro-choice side is fighting against. Clearly, these women were desperate - desperate enough to risk their lives with an unlicensed provider.


Right on cue:

The Virginia Board of Health voted Friday to require clinics that perform abortions to meet strict, hospital-style building codes that operators say could put many of them out of business.
...
“Board of Health puts politics before medicine, approves Cuccinelli’s outrageous women’s health restrictions,” read a release from ProgressVA, a liberal group.


Isn't that nice?

Inga said...

If the pro-choice crowd was smart they would use this to persuade people like me to who normally want government as small as possible to agree to have government do whatever is unnecessary to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

I would support free birth control, free morning-after drugs, even free very early abortions, if we could prevent developed fetuses from being aborted. Once you have an unwanted pregnancy, there are no good choices.

I hate shouldering irresponsible peoples' responsibilities, but it's not just about her, and the shouldering only gets worse if we don't lift it early.

4/15/13, 11:20 AM

YES! A voice in the wilderness. When I suggested the same, free birth control, of course I was shot down and compared to Sandra Fluke.

MayBee said...

Bagoh- you know free birth control and free early abortions would not eradicate late term abortions.

bagoh20 said...

If the pro-choice crowd was smart they would use this to persuade people like me to who normally want government as small as possible to agree to have government do whatever is necessary to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

I would support free birth control, free morning-after drugs, even free very early abortions, if we could prevent developed fetuses from being aborted. Once you have an unwanted pregnancy, there are no good choices.

I hate shouldering irresponsible peoples' responsibilities, but it's not just about her, and the shouldering only gets worse if we don't lift it early.

Jay said...

We're not even in the gray area where a strange term like "partial-birth abortion" could be used.

Oh, yes, yes we are.

And why, exactly, is "Partial Birth Abortion" a "strange term"?

C Stanley said...


Which doesn’t make any sense, to me, because this is what the pro-choice side is fighting against. Clearly, these women were desperate - desperate enough to risk their lives with an unlicensed provider.


Correcction: this is what the propaganda has convinced people that they were doing. Now the curtain has been drawn back to reveal that they care not a whit about those women. exposing the duplicity of Planned Parenthood, NAF, and NARAL (all of which I believe are EVEN NOW fighting against abortion clinic standards) is likely to damage the prochoice cause.

Tina said...

So, can we finally nail down that the media has a massive bias?

Roger J. said...

Let me second Edutcher's commendation for Professor Althouse. Her work on this blog helps to keep this horrific situation in the public eye.

I would also suggest that strangely absent from the discussions are members of the black community; the churches, the race hustlers--the very community wherein I suspect most of the victims--the young black women-- came.

Shouting Thomas said...

Bagoh- you know free birth control and free early abortions would not eradicate late term abortions.

Folks, whether or not you like pornography, I suggest you start taking a look at porn sites, particularly black porn sites, to see the kind of sexual behavior that porn and easy access to abortion is inducing in young women, particularly in young black women.

Nobody wants to talk about holding women responsible for their sexual behavior. This is not just because of unwanted pregnancies. The other side of the coin is that people want access to the kind of sexual behavior that the abortion/porn environment induces.

No, there is a moral problem in the way young women, particularly young black women, are behaving sexually. And I'm anything but a prude. That behavior is leading us toward a cliff, whether or not it results in pregnancy.

I ask again... Can we demand anything from women in terms of behavior? Can we ever just say "no, you can't have what you want to women?"

The Drill SGT said...

I thought the writer's post was right on when I read it earlier from a pointer in Powerline. I was struck by the fact that even those "pro-choice" defenders, and I think of myself as a weak defender (as in safe, legal and rare) don't see that the Only differences between Dr Gosnell, and the creed of Planned Parenthood, according to its spokeperson is that Gosnell was unsanitary and got caught"


the extremism of some who favor abortion rights, as per the Planned Parenthood’s Alisa LaPolt Snow, who said recently that when a baby somehow survives an abortion, it’s up to the woman, her family and her doctor to decide that child’s fate.

PP would have you believe that everything is all fairy dust and unicorns when that aborted baby is delivered in their clinics. Thrust them to do the right thing. No other oversight is needed...

rhhardin said...

Personhood is determined by birth.

Everybody wants to pretend that there's some obscure line, viability, heartbeat, conception, or whatever, as if it's internal to the fetus.

Conception gets there because of the pretending on the life side, there's no line so the line must be here.

Personhood is determined by convention.

Convention isn't taken seriously enough. It doesn't come from nowhere. It has ties all over, and makes sense of interests and needs.

Neither side trusts it. It's so hard to control.

Jay said...

We're not even in the gray area where a strange term like "partial-birth abortion" could be used.


^That is just a silly lie you need in order to comfort yourself because this story reminds you that you are pro-choice.

Note, from GONZALES v. CARHART:

“ ‘Dr. Haskell went in with forceps and grabbed the baby’s legs and pulled them down into the birth canal. Then he delivered the baby’s body and the arms—everything but the head. The doctor kept the head right inside the uterus… .

“ ‘The baby’s little fingers were clasping and unclasping, and his little feet were kicking. Then the doctor stuck the scissors in the back of his head, and the baby’s arms jerked out, like a startle reaction, like a flinch, like a baby does when he thinks he is going to fall.

“ ‘The doctor opened up the scissors, stuck a high-powered suction tube into the opening, and sucked the baby’s brains out. Now the baby went completely limp…


Which is totally super-duper far away from what Kermit Gosnell did.

Really. It is.

bagoh20 said...

Sorry, for the delete and repost. You people are fast.

"Bagoh- you know free birth control and free early abortions would not eradicate late term abortions."

Not 100%, but that standard would make most tough policy problems unsolvable.

The question is: If you know those fetuses will eventually go to late term abortion, how do we stop as many as possible from happening? If we really find it horrible, and like me, far far more horrible than a very early abortion or paying for Sandra Fluke's cheap ass, then how can we not simply prevent them where we can.

Eliminate other spending and replace it with this, because innocent life is at stake, not just the irresponsible mother's issues.

Inga said...

Expanding on what Bagoh said, I am always amazed when I hear women speaking about the evils of birth control, extolling the virtues of natural family planning, which is wonderful in a committed marriage. These women who are having repeat abortions are not married, not in committed relationships, irresponsible and can not be depended on to even take a pill daily, much less natural methods of birth control.

Give them Norplant implants, incentivize them to use birth control. A clinic in some southern state has been doing this with great results. Stop with the outrage over Sandra Fluke and direct your energy to doin anything necessary to AVOID pregnancy in these irresponsible women.

Lincolntf said...

People don't want to admit what we've all known for years. They've been justifying, financing, promoting and even celebrating exactly what happened in Gosnell's clinic. We've always known the pro-abortion screamers were at best useful idiots, but making that judgment about oneself must be difficult.

Original Mike said...

"people like me to who normally want government as small as possible"

Thanks for the laugh.

C Stanley said...

@ Inga and Bagoh- it's been shown that cost is not the reason most abortive women give for not having used birth control.

Larry J said...

This story exposes the bias in the media more blatanly than just about any other in recent memory.

1. The doctor is black and likely so are most of his patients, so there's the racial angle.

2. Most reporters are liberal and believe in government, but the doctor's "medical practice" had not been inspected for years, exposing that government failed in its responsibility.

3. Of course, there's the fact that this story can be used by pro-life people, so it shouldn't be mentioned. Although I did read that one media person was attempting to say that if only we had universal government provided abortion for poor people, this never would've happened. However, I find that argument unconvincing. If anything, you would've had more Gosnells out there. When you subsidize something, you get more of it.

4. Some commenters have used the word "evil" and that's fitting, but to post-modernists, that implies negative judgment.

C Stanley said...

You really can't fix irresponsibility by throwing more money at it.

Shouting Thomas said...

Stop with the outrage over Sandra Fluke and direct your energy to doin anything necessary to AVOID pregnancy in these irresponsible women.

No, Inga, a complete free-for-all is not the answer.

No, the answer for the predominantly black girls who were "patients" of Dr. Gosnell is to attend the black Baptist church in their neighborhood, and to get out of the hip-hop/porn life they are living.

It's long past time to start saying no to women. That requires a return to strong fathers who have the guts to say no. Your soft "therapeutic" side, Inga, can be quite evil.

bagoh20 said...

After we make it impossible to not avoid late term abortion, by making birth control and early abortion easy and free, I would like to see prison sentences for those who don't do it, and abort late. You want to avoid prison, take care of your baby through birth, and give it up for adoption.

MayBee said...

Bagoh:Not 100%, but that standard would make most tough policy problems unsolvable.
------

True, but I think the problem is already pretty small. I don't think late term abortions are a huge percentage of abortions. It takes a very special woman to choose it, and a very special doctor to agree to perform it.

gerry said...

If you struggle with finding the evil in something this horrific, then the chances are you will put up with a lot of evil, and probably cover up some yourself.

Abortion was immediately available in the brand-spanking-new Bolshevik Russia. And those souls aborted during the USSR's 70-year history aren't even totalled in with the 40-50 million adults and children the USSR murdered to ring in a brave new future. And let's not forget all the female unborn humans murdered in Red China to ensure that humanitarian nation's bright future!

Yep. Progs are willing to put up with a lot of evil. For the good that will come of it.

Renee said...

"Give them Norplant implants, incentivize them to use birth control."

Are you saying that these women are too stupid to use other forms of contraception that they are responsible for using?

Of you're course not, but really.....



If women want to use birth control, it has to be done completely within her own free will and ability with absolutely no 'incentives'.

Yeah, I use NFP, and I understand we're dealing with a group of women in are in unhealthy unstable relationships, even probably in extremely abusive situations.

Norplant or an IUD isn't the solution, it may prevent an abortion but it doesn't treat the woman as a human being deserving of some dignity.

She deserves better.

bagoh20 said...

While you guys stand your ground, it's soaking up the blood of viable babies. Maybe you should reconsider.

Shouting Thomas said...

Fathers, and a strong patriarchy, are the answers here.

The black community has been ripped to pieces by government welfare.

More welfare in the form of free birth control, and a complete sexual free-for-all, are not the answers for the black community.

The answers are strong black fathers, a strong black Baptist Church, and the rebuilding of a strong patriarchal structure in the black community.

wyo sis said...

Calling evil things evil implies negative judgement.

Well, yes, yes it does.

Probably best to ignore evil in that case huh?

Nothing could be more evil than negative judgement.

Unless it's done by a liberal.

MayBee said...

Birth control is already easy and often free. Early term abortions are cheaper and easier to obtain than late term abortion. People are not using those because they don't want to, or just don't care enough to.
Just like the people who won't avail themselves of a free 12 year education.
Make abortion after 22 weeks illegal, unless approved by a panel of doctors, as they do in Europe. Then enforce it.

Inga said...

"Give them Norplant implants, incentivize them to use birth control."
----------------------
Are you saying that these women are too stupid to use other forms of contraception that they are responsible for using?

Of you're course not, but really.....

If women want to use birth control, it has to be done completely within her own free will and ability with absolutely no 'incentives'.

Yeah, I use NFP, and I understand we're dealing with a group of women in are in unhealthy unstable relationships, even probably in extremely abusive situations.

Norplant or an IUD isn't the solution, it may prevent an abortion but it doesn't treat the woman as a human being deserving of some dignity.

She deserves better.

4/15/13, 11:37 AM

Se what I mean? Is this realistic, truly? Earth to Renee, these women ARE stupid, sorry I said it. Yes they are stupid, perhaps one day they will be less stupid, but YES repeat aborters ARE STUPID and irresponsible.

AprilApple said...

Fluke was ridiculous because she can afford her own birth control and yet she insisted the tax payer give it to HER. Fluke used herself as the example and it was ridiculous. Big bad Rush Limbaugh called her a slut and the pro-democrat media piled on to destroy Rush. Sandra Fluke is still an asshole, much like our pathetic progressive pro-democrat hack media elites who won't touch the Gosnell story.

If we want to have a discussion where we all agree to help the poor obtain free birth control-- fine. Sandra Fluke is not poor.
Sandra Fluke is a glittering example of tax payer waste.

bagoh20 said...

"You really can't fix irresponsibility by throwing more money at it"

Which is more responsible, paying for birth control, or paying for late term abortion and welfare kids?

Same question for those who question my small government bonafides? Which is smaller government?

Renee said...

Igna,

:(

Yeah, I used a sad emoticon.

Just because a woman is 'stupid' she shouldn't be treated like a 'bitch' (dog) who needs to be spayed.

Shouting Thomas said...

Se what I mean? Is this realistic, truly? Earth to Renee, these women ARE stupid, sorry I said it. Yes they are stupid, perhaps one day they will be less stupid, but YES repeat aborters ARE STUPID and irresponsible.

Strong fathers know how to say "No!"

You're weak and full to the brim with compassion, Inga. You carry the mother's soft role to the point of absurdity.

Yes, these women are stupid, which is why they need a strong male authority figure to say "No" and kick their asses into compliance.

MayBee said...

Next bagoh says "if it saves just one life!"

You have an idea you think would work. I disagree. Don't get all blood on your hands on me.

Roger J. said...

Please recall, as one poster noted above: when you subsidize something you get more of it--are there not financial incentives for child bearing? what could possibly go wrong with that.

Inga said...

And Renee, the babies these stupid women aborted deserve no to die by "snipping", in a foul clinic that was not inspected because after all, they were just STUPID black women. But even stupid women deserve to have medical procedures done in a clean clinic that comports to any other clinic that does medical procedures.

How about we try to help bring these women up out of their stupidity?

Scott M said...

YES! A voice in the wilderness. When I suggested the same, free birth control, of course I was shot down and compared to Sandra Fluke.

Are you absolutely sure the push-back you got wasn't over forcing private companies to provide that free birth control even if it conflicted with their principles?

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shouting Thomas said...

Time to the restoration of patriarchy.

When the patriarchy was in charge, bastardy was a much less serious problem, and abortion was seldom necessary.

Now that the corrupt feminist matriarchy is in charge, bastardy is common and abortion is prevalent.

Women have failed, completely. Their solutions are always to be soft and compassionate, to let the kids do whatever they want to do. Feminism is a failure.

Our fathers were right. Time for the men to be back in charge.

MayBee said...

Medicaid pays for abortion in 15 states. planned parenthood is highly subsidized and will provide free birth control pills for people with a low income.

It isn't lack of availability or cost.

Bob Boyd said...

Ann said:
"Why don't abortion rights proponents come down hard on that distinction?"

I'm not sure about that distinction.

The women weren't going to Gosnell's clinic to deliver. They were going there to abort.

damikesc said...

Why don't abortion rights proponents come down hard on that distinction?

They don't really care that much about that distinction.

ALSO, let's not forget that pro-abortion groups were WELL AWARE of what Gosnell did and kept it silent. They also oppose protecting children who survive abortion, a position that matches the President's.

This is not any different than what groups like Planned Parenthood vigorously support.

Clearly, these women were desperate - desperate enough to risk their lives with an unlicensed provider.

Can somebody explain why they were not "desperate" months earlier?

And, as mentioned, he was licensed.

When I suggested the same, free birth control, of course I was shot down and compared to Sandra Fluke.

Because it's a waste of money. The "birth control" will have to be paid as well as the baby the woman eventually will want.

bagoh20 said...

Maybe: "Make abortion after 22 weeks illegal, unless approved by a panel of doctors, as they do in Europe. Then enforce it."

I agree. You need a carrot and a stick. We mostly already have the carrot. The stick will encourage people, but also give them justification.

Still, I think some of these pregnancies actually occur for petty financial reasons like she chose the bottle of Grey Goose over the birth control. Despicable, but we are talking about getting highly irresponsible people to do responsible things. We need to make it idiot proof. The cultural controls that used to work, and that S.T. is talking about, are gone. Till they return, we need to stop the carnage.

Jay said...

Ann said:
"Why don't abortion rights proponents come down hard on that distinction?"


I can't believe she actually said that.

Though it appears when she starts talking about abortion, just like race and gay marriage, her IQ drops 50 points...

Shouting Thomas said...

You can see in Inga why the women have failed completely.

Their strategy is to always allow the kids to do whatever they want, then to attempt to put a bandage on the result.

Women have failed. Inga is Exhibit A. And, all she knows is how to compound her failure with more softness and license.

Men know how to tell kids "No!" Men need to be back in charge. The matriarchy is a failure.

damikesc said...

And Renee, the babies these stupid women aborted deserve no to die by "snipping", in a foul clinic that was not inspected because after all, they were just STUPID black women. But even stupid women deserve to have medical procedures done in a clean clinic that comports to any other clinic that does medical procedures.

Yet Progressive groups thoroughly argue against any laws that will hold abortion clinics to the standards hospitals must follow...because it would cause these clinics to shut down.

How bad are ALL abortion clinics in this country?

TMink said...

If he had shot them with a semi-automatic rifle would the story get coverage? Or would "journailst's" heads explode from the cognitive dissonance?

Trey

TMink said...

If he had shot them with a semi-automatic rifle would the story get coverage? Or would "journailst's" heads explode from the cognitive dissonance?

Trey

MayBee said...

Is there anything that's idiot proof?

There may be a lot of women who choose the vodka, but there are plent of women who simply don't feel like taking or using birth control.

Look, we'll find about that soon enough with Oabamacare. Free birth control pills for all are just around the corner.
But you and I both know people make really stupid choices because the long term consequences are somehow a mystery to them.

Inga said...

"Still, I think some of these pregnancies actually occur for petty financial reasons like she chose the bottle of Grey Goose over the birth control. Despicable, but we are talking about getting highly irresponsible people to do responsible things. We need to make it idiot proof. The cultural controls that used to work, and that S.T. is talking about, are gone. Till they return, we need to stop the carnage."

4/15/13, 11:52 AM

EXACTLY. They are not responsible women, did anyone watch the video St. Croix posted yesterday on the Gosnell thread, toward the end of the thread? You must watch it to grasp the level of stupidity and irresponsibility in these women. It doesn't mean that that "stupidity" can't be overcome though.

Inga said...

"You can see in Inga why the women have failed completely.

Their strategy is to always allow the kids to do whatever they want, then to attempt to put a bandage on the result.

Women have failed. Inga is Exhibit A. And, all she knows is how to compound her failure with more softness and license.

Men know how to tell kids "No!" Men need to be back in charge. The matriarchy is a failure."

4/15/13, 11:53 AM

How dare you attack my mothering skills ST. I have four children I raised mostly by myself, who have grown up healthy and very successfully. You are once again talking directly OUT OF YOUR ASS.

bagoh20 said...

"You have an idea you think would work. I disagree. Don't get all blood on your hands on me."

My approach just ends up with less blood on all our hands. You don't get off from culpability by simply saying "people should just be good" is your policy.

The child has no chance to act responsibly to save itself.

Henry said...

"Why don't abortion rights proponents come down hard on that distinction?"

The baseline argument for abortion on demand has always been that if you keep abortion legal, you can make it safe. And that is better than the back-alley alternative.

Yet the alternative lives on. It turns out that legal, safe, late-term abortion provides cover for the illegal, unsafe killing of infants.

In a clinic.

Michael said...

Before abortion was legal there were far fewer procedures than there are today. And why is that? Because it was difficult to get an abortion women, and men, were more careful with contraception, more careful in general to avoid unwanted pregnancies. Because in the olden times if you knocked up someone you would do the right thing and marry her and raise the child together. How quaint.

Oh, and there was another reason women were careful not to get pregnant. Women who got pregnant outside marriage were considered sluts. So judgmental. And shame (in the dictionary still, I think) would fall upon their families. Even upon the families of the guys who knocked up girls and didn't marry them. So judgmental.

This isn't about birth control. This is about a collapsed culture that assigns squishy names to murder.

AprilApple said...

After the horror at Sandy Hook- democrats were quick to not let a crisis go to waste and we are now facing gun registration and limits and restrictions to our access to the 2nd amendment. (limits that will not do one thing to prevent Sandy Hook)

After Gosnell, we get a media black out.
Where is the outrage from our political betters in congress
and from Obama himself?

Where are the calls from congress to make sure abortion clinics are inspected? Where are the calls to make late term abortion illegal?
Lets ask the American public if they think late term abortion is OK?
Oh....dear... we cannot do that. The media and the democrat party already know the answer they will get, and the answer is not acceptable to the progressive bible. Abortion at any time for any reason, no questions asked.

Renee said...

"How bad are ALL abortion clinics in this country?"


Stand alone clinics or hospitals that actually perform abortions.

Hospitals can and do perform abortions, but that is if the woman's health insurance covers it.

In Massachusetts my health insurance covers abortion, after you met the deductible.

Under MassHealth abortions and birth control are free, but so is pre-natal care and delibery of a live baby.

Is this an insurance issue?


But then again, abortion brings shame. Does one go to their regular doctor/gyn to get an abortion referral?

Greg Hlatky said...

I can exercise my Second Amendment rights in a number of ways.  I can use a firearm for the pleasure of target practice.  I can use it to deter or repel a criminal.  I can own it for historical purposes.  Or I can use it to kill someone.  Because of this last purpose, exercised criminally, the bien pensants want to hinder and hem in, if not extinguish, my ownership of a firearm for all the other purposes.

Death is the only purpose of a “woman’s right to choose.”  The right may be exercised for hard reasons (a young girl raped by her father) or frivolously (a pregnancy that would interfere with that European vacation).  But the end result is the same:  death. 

So what if some of the fetuses were born alive and were killed subsequently?  Their being born alive was a complicating factor in the desired end result of a “woman’s right to choose”:  their death.  And our bien pensants say that right can’t be hindered, hemmed in or interfered with.  Whether their deaths happened in a nice, clean, hygienic clinic or Gosnell’s abattoir is just a matter of aesthetics.

wyo sis said...

Abortion brings shame?

Surely not.

Abortion is celebrated by feminists, lefties and the media.

MayBee said...

My policy isn't people should just be good. But lots of money is spent in the name of making people behave a certain way. That's pretty much very liberal program.

The thing is, there is a huge contingent of party funders, activists, and politicians who are perfectly fine with late term abortion. As long as that's true, they are going to exist. And as long as they exist, there will be a contingent of women who avail themselves oF the service.

Lincolntf said...

That these women all considered their babies disposable is because that is what has been drilled into their little heads their whole lives. Planned Parenthood does what it does where it does it for a very specific reason, and that reason is not that Doctors like to work in slums.

Pogo said...

How very strange, that Dr. Carson is more vilified than Dr. Gosnell.

MayBee said...

Free birth control available in Pennsylvania

http://www.familyplanning.org/selectplan.shtml

Inga said...

Abortion brings shame?

Surely not.

Abortion is celebrated by feminists, lefties and the media.

4/15/13, 12:13 PM
A STUPID statement from an intelligent woman. Wyo. Sis, when did I ever "celebrate" abortion? Would you like to point out one single time? Is Maybee a lefty? She is in favor of a European model in which abortion is limited to 22 weeks. I am far less of a Pro Choice advocate than she is, as I've said first trimester and lately even less, to the 8th week. Why do you not attack Maybee as " celebrating" abortion?

Matt said...

Inga,

Planned Parenthood used to sell shirts that said, "I had an abortion."

Duh.

Sigivald said...

The grand jury report says that his method of ridding women of their unwanted late-term pregnancies was to induce labor and deliver the child. That's not abortion. That's childbirth.

You know, I'm pretty ambivalent about "abortion" as such, in terms of my policy preferences.

But that's a ridiculous distinction: "doing that inside the womb is just 'abortion', but outside is murder"*.

Does it matter at all that there was induced labor and the fetus (or baby?) was expelled from the womb before being killed?

If one's Perfectly Acceptable, the other ought to be, too, because I can't see any way it makes a meaningful difference.

(Or, equally, if one's horrible and morally unacceptable, the other should be too.)

Like I said, I've not got a strong preference as to "it's MURDER!!" vs. "yeah, whatever, abortions and stuff" - but I want consistency in the commentary.

(* Legally this might be so. But the law need not make any sense, nor must we respect its claims merely because politicians made it a law.)

Jay said...

A STUPID statement from an intelligent woman. Wyo. Sis, when did I ever "celebrate" abortion?

Hilarious.

Someone says "lefties" and you assume they were talking to you.

You're not that imporant, despite posting 500 comments here (most of them shreiking and incoherent) since Friday...

Inga said...

"Planned Parenthood used to sell shirts that said, "I had an abortion."

Duh."

4/15/13, 12:23 PM
Matt, oh did Maybee wear one? I surely didn't. IF that is even true.

Lincolntf said...

"I'd be happy to give him [oral sex] just to thank him for keeping abortion legal." - Liberal feminist author Nita Burleigh re: Bill Clinton
Not only do some women celebrate abortion, they think it's funny.

MayBee said...

I haven't had an abortion, Inga.

Bob Ellison said...

How did Inga manage to quote bagoh20's comment before he made the comment? Is it a glitch in blogger.com?

...or is it that they're in cahoots? Is Inga bagoh20's sock-puppet?

...or am I dyslexic?

Matt said...

Inga,

Try a Google search you twit.

http://www.lifenews.com/2004/07/30/nat-691/

And YOU are not every leftist though you sure shill for them. Search for "I had an abortion shirt" and then claim getting an abortion is not celebrated.

Inga said...

"I haven't had an abortion, Inga"

4/15/13, 12:29 PM

Neither have I Maybee, but we are both Pro Choice, therefore we must both agree with whatever any pro choice group does, isn't that right?

No? glad to hear it.

Jay said...

Oh look,
Letter Shows Michelle Obama Backing Partial-Birth Abortion


Yes, her and Barry, just like Planned Parenthood, were out fundraising just after Bush signed the Partial Birth Aborton Ban Act.

Freder Frederson said...

The media perceive the Gosnell story as a threat to abortion rights.

The only thing I think is an obvious lesson from the lack of coverage, is that the media generally doesn't care about poor Black people.

MayBee said...

Tiller was considered a hero. His murder was an occasion for a comment by our President. Late term abortion is just fine with a looooot of people.

MayBee said...

Did anybody say either of us has to agree with everything a prochoice group does?

Abortion brings shame to some people, some support it to the point they want no restrictions, some have absolutely no ill feelings about the procedure, some do it and are sad. A whole spectrum of feelings and responses.

carrie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
carrie said...

I hope that someone takes the time to answer the question about how a woman gets to be 20 weeks pregnant and then decides to have an abortion. My guess is that 20 weeks is as long as the boyfriend stays in the picture. Pregnant women don't always look so good after the 20th week and I assume that 99.9% of these women were unmarried--the father wasn't married to the mother so he was free to move on. The poor women probably believed that the fathers would stay and that they would be a "family" and then reality hit when the boyfriend said that he wasn't married and was out of there.

carrie said...

I hope that someone takes the time to answer the question how you get to be 20 weeks pregnant and then decide to have and abortion. My guess is that 20 weeks is as long as the boyfriend stayed in the picture. Pregnant women don't always look so good after the 20th week and I assume that 99.9% of these women were unmarried and the father wasn't married to the mother so he was free to move on. The poor women probably believed that the fathers would stay and they would be a "family" and then reality hit home when the boyfriend said that he wasn't married and was out of there.

Inga said...

"Did anybody say either of us has to agree with everything a prochoice group does?"

4/15/13, 12:37 PM

No Maybee, but they lump a Pro Choicer in with them at every turn.

David said...

"If abortion rights proponents don't want to talk about that, I'd like to hear exactly why they have a problem."

They have a problem because they know damn well that early term abortion is also the taking of a human life. The younger unborn human can scream like the ones who are born alive.

David said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ken said...

The case can't be used to control gun owners, so it's a non-starter.

Shana said...

All this sophistry distinguishing which geographical location the murders took place would be amusing if it wasn't such a serious matter.

Michael said...

If Dr. Gosnell had used a gun to "abort" the live birth babies would that have been better for the pro-abortion crowd? Would the left have climbed on this story if Gosnell was firing a round into the brains of these children? Or would they have called for ear protectors for abortionists?

Saint Croix said...

okay, everybody needs to watch this documentary. Take 20 minutes, sit down, and watch it. Heartbreaking. Sad. Brilliant. It's about Gosnell and his infanticides, but also about the women who went to his clinic. And it's about race, too. Really strong stuff.

Inga said...

Thanks for re posting it, St. Croix.

Jay said...

When you have no morality(get your God out of my bedroom!!!!) how could you possibly say you think what he was doing was immoral? If that is the way you think, is this immoral or wrong?

Nope.

Ken said...

The reality is that all abortion is murder. The distinction between week 22 and week 23 is artificial in the extreme. Nothing magical happens at day 161 that isn't true on day 160. A human life is being snuffed out in one of the most gruesome ways imaginable. No amount of sophistry will change that.

Some people here seem to think the opposition to abortion is big vs small government. It isn't. It's about the recognition that killing for arbitrary reasons is absolutely wrong.

Teri said...

Wiki with links to the case: http://kermitgosnellcrimes.wikispaces.com/

I'm going by what I've read on this. he did mostly late term abortions because the word had gotten out on the street that the clinic was not safe. Women contracted VD from unsterilized instruments. Women died from having unlicensed assistants adminster anesthesia. He kept baby parts in the refrigerator where the workers kept their lunches. The man kept trophies!

He paid workers under the table wages.He deliberately hired unqualified people that were desperate for a job. He lied about doing abortions past 24 weeks, which are illegal. He wrote script for drugs and sold them. He kept a separate waiting room for white clients.

All of this could have been prevented if they held his clinic to the same standards as they would a tattoo parlor. They didn't because of politics. Anyone that is pro choice should also be in favor of women getting safe medical care. They should be after this guy with the same intensity as those who are opposed to abortion.

Renee said...

Pa. doctor testifies against fellow abortion provider

"Benjamin says he has performed 40,000 abortions over a 30-year career. He says he doesn't do them after 21 weeks, or three weeks under the 24-week limit in Pennsylvania.

Gosnell is accused of performing illegal, late-term abortions and running a dangerously outdated clinic staffed by untrained workers.

Benjamin says he performs abortions after 17 weeks gestation in a hospital. That's in contrast to Gosnell, who performed about 1,000 abortions a year at his clinic."

Jay said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael said...

Teri:"All of this could have been prevented if they held his clinic to the same standards as they would a tattoo parlor."

Oh really. I think what you mean to say is that if high standards of cleanliness had been kept then Dr. Gosnell would still be able to ply his trade of killing. Cleaner killing.

Besides "all this" is just too much to talk about isn't it? If Dr. Gosnell had just been a bit tidier then "all this" wouldn't be out here in the open where nice people can see.

Jay said...

Inga said...


EXACTLY. They are not responsible women, did anyone watch the video St. Croix posted yesterday on the Gosnell thread, toward the end of the thread? You must watch it to grasp the level of stupidity and irresponsibility in these women. It doesn't mean that that "stupidity" can't be overcome though



The very first woman profiled in that video got raped, and got pregnant.

I love wathing lilly white children of Privilege like you call black women who have been raped "stupid"

You fucking pathetic loon.

Renee said...

Michael, Yes. If he was tidier, he would of been fine.

AllenS said...

My late girlfriend had a friend that she grew up with who quite proudly would tell you that she had 10 abortions.

Inga said...

Jay, spare me the FAUX outrage. You don't care an iota for any of those women. Your pro life arguments are only a vehicle for you to use to come on this blog and shit.

Sorun said...

If the doctor was white, and his only crime was having separate white & black waiting rooms, this would have been front-paged long ago.

Marshal said...

Freder Frederson said...
The media perceive the Gosnell story as a threat to abortion rights.

The only thing I think is an obvious lesson from the lack of coverage, is that the media generally doesn't care about poor Black people.


A good leftist only supports conclusions that support the narrative.

A great leftist only comprehends conclusions that support the narrative.

C Stanley said...

Accordong to this site, there are over 40,000 people alive in the US today after surviving failed abortion. Do these people not deserve legal protection? Why are the perpetrators not held accountable for attempted murder?

Lots of other information on the site too about women who changed their minds after seeing a live baby, only to have clinic workers refuse to call for medical help for the child.

And the extimated 1270 babies per year who die after being born alive. Gosnell is only one of many. He used scissors, most of them use cold neglect.

Sick, sick, sick.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
heyboom said...

"...his method of ridding women of their unwanted late-term pregnancies was to induce labor and deliver the child. That's not abortion. That's childbirth."

That's quite a stretch. Inducing labor before the due date in cases where the mother is not in danger is not a normal procedure. I would bet my life that no ethical OB doctor would ever do something like that. His intent was to bring the baby out of the mother in order to kill it, not to carry out a live birth.

Those babies were doomed long before they emerged from the womb.

Inga said...

Also Jay, do you really think anyone forgot about your comments during the "rape/rape" arguments before the election? You do not care about a woman who has been raped, do you want me to go and retireive your comments, hypocrite?

R.A. Crankbait said...


Gosnell's crimes are horrendous, shocking and - hopefully - rare. Pro-abortion citizens and journalists are right to be concerned that too much attention on this case could lead to loud calls for a "serious national discussion" about late term abortions. You could have prominent politicians shepherding the surviving mothers and staff from Gosnell's abattoir around to Congressional hearings and photo ops to press for common-sense restrictions and laws to close the "Abortitarium Loophole" and limit the number of procedures that can be performed in one day to, for example, no more than seven. You'd have people condemning the choke hold the NARAL and Planned Parenthood have on legislators and calls for universal background checks on abortion providers and patients and de facto registration of all abortions carried out, including the names of the doctors, the mothers and their home addresses.

Of course, I'm exaggerating. No one would really want to use a handful of shocking instances to demagogue against a fundamental right, would they?

C Stanley said...

Well done, Crankbait

Jay said...

Inga said...
Also Jay, do you really think anyone forgot about your comments during the "rape/rape" arguments before the election? You do not care about a woman who has been raped, do you want me to go and retireive your comments, hypocrite?


HA HA HA HA

HA HA HA HA

HA HA HA HA

HA HA HA HA

Nice projection, you lilly white, lives in the middle of nowhere, but calls black women "stupid" racist.

Nice try to deflect about alleged comments of mine on rape.

You are pathetic, you shrieking racist.

MayBee said...

I wish I had better googling skills. Does anybody remember a common argument from the Emily's List left a few years ago was that there was no such thing as a partial birth abortion?

Matt said...

Inga said...
Also Jay, do you reallY think anyone forgot about your comments durin the "rape/ rape" arguments before the election? You do not care about a woman who has been raped, do you want me to go and retireive your comments, hypocrite?

4/15/13, 1:12 PM

Yes, you should retrieve the quotes. You very casually tried to suggest I made something up when, in fact, it was easily identified as true via a Google search and then you lacked the decency to even acknowledge it when I posted a link.

So, yes, put up or shut up.

Also, you claim to want heavy restrictions on abortion. Out of curiosity, how many have you assisted on as a nurse?

Jay said...

, do you want me to go and retireive your comments, hypocrite?


Please, white woman who calls black women who have been raped "stupid" - retrieve away.

I love this. The lilly white woman of Privilege reeveals here true colors.

Hilarity ensues...

Inga said...

Thank you Jay, I was hoping you would do that. Who is the loon, your hysterical haha's always give you away, now I'm done with you.

Jay said...

I figured it would only take a matter of time until one of the WI posters who live surrouneded by white people at a 90%+ clip would reveal their true colors.

Anyway, since the PA Dept of Health received 3 different notifications of deaths at Gosnell's clinic and did nothing, why in the world is the PA Dept of Health necessary?

Teri said...

What I have been trying to do personally, is to just bring up this case to anyone that will listen. I've tried to do it without getting that knee-jerk "woman's right to choose" from people that are pro-choice. This is not the only abortion clinic with a bad reputation that is uninspected. If the first common ground we can find is that all abortion clinics must meet the same standards as any medical clinic, then at least that's a start.

I remember that whole partial birth abortion argument when they kept saying how rare and necessary it was. The truth is that we have more abortions now, with safer, more readily available birth control than we had in the pre-Roe v Wade days. It's time to declare some restrictions on abortion as a result of that reality.

Inga said...

Matt, none, why would you assume I have? Does every pro choice nurse work in abortion clinics? I'm done with you too.

Perhaps Maybee has volunteered in an abortion clinic, as she is far more pro choice than I am. Does that make any more sense than what you have just said?

Jay said...

Inga said...
Thank you Jay, I was hoping you would do that


And here I thought you were going to retrivie these allegedly damning quotes of mine, you silly little racist.

Note: Inga lacks the self awareness to understand the feelings she harbors towards young black women (they're stupid) are the same feelings that started the abortion movement. A movement started by a firm believe in eugenics.

Inga's beclownment is complete.

Rabel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rabel said...

The motivations behind the failure of multiple media outlets to cover the trial align perfectly with the motivations behind the failure of multiple government agencies to investigate the clinic.

n.n said...

The advocates for abortion or reproductive rights know that the Democrat consensus is formed from women and men who dream of material, physical, and ego instant (or immediate) gratification. They cannot afford to lose their base.

Liberty is only suitable for women and men capable of self-moderating behavior.

Chuck66 said...

We don't hear about this for the same reason we don't hear about the NAACP president in Ohio who said the gal deserved to get raped because she was drunk.

Bob Ellison said...

St. Croix, thanks for the link to the video. I made it to 7:51 and can't go on.

Chuck66 said...

We read much about the anti-abortion wacko who killed the abortion doctor in Witchita.

How many times did you hear about..the same week...a pro-choice activist walked up to a pro-life protestor in Owasso Michigan. Shot him in the head. Killed him. He said he hates pro-life people so wanted to kill this gentle man.

AllenS said...

Gosnell had separate white & black waiting rooms?

Containing different magazine subscriptions, I'll bet.

Chuck66 said...

Serious question...not baiting. I read the advice column in a newspaper this weekend, and a gay guy says he "wants to have kids" with a future gay partner. Now, my thoughts:

A) You and your gay partner are incapable of producing kids

B) There have been several adoptions in my family and circle of friends. I know about the shortage of unwanted babies.

C) Why not have liberal ladies become hosts for liberal gay men to produce future liberals.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"YES repeat aborters ARE STUPID and irresponsible"

And evil.


Excellent description of the Democrat base these days.

Matt said...

Inga said...
Matt, none, why would you assume I have? Does every pro choice nurse work in abortion clinics? I'm done with you too.


Geez, you ARE a nurse, right? Thus, it is possible that at some point you would have garnered first hand experience to draw from, no? It seems like a legitimate question to me! Why so defensive?

Aren't you busy culling old quotes?

Renee said...

Infertile and gay couples use fertility clinics, they want their babies pre-ordered. Big business here in Massachusetts. www.gayivf.com

They're not waiting on some stupid woman, to give up her baby.

Lem said...

An obvious one is that this was a black on black... crime?

You got children, race, poverty, state agencies failures...

This story has so many dimensions, the deafening silence sure does says something about where we are and where we are going.

I bet my bottom dollar, this is not the only one... and probably not even the worst.

gregq said...

Sorry, Ann, but what's the difference?

1: Viable baby in mom's belly, killed because the woman would rather see the baby killed, than put up for adoption.

2: Viable baby partially in mom's birth canal, partially out in the real world, killed because the woman would rather see the baby killed, than put up for adoption.

3: Viable baby out of the mother's body, killed because the woman would rather see the baby killed, than put up for adoption.

The only difference is location. And if you're seriously going to try to argue that your humanity is dependent upon where you're living at the time, well, enjoy that fantasy world you live in.

The partisan and dishonest left / the press don't want this covered because it exposes the fraud that is their abortion position.

Tom Billings said...

I believe that status, and relationships in status may have a lot to do with the press reaction to the Gosnell case.

The cultural group that approves of abortion see themselves as separate from and superior to those who condemn it. Displaying Gosnell's actions, after him and his clinic being associated so long with the pro-choice cultural group, would do several things to the reporters and editor's view of themselves.

At minimum, it indicates their group are quite able to refuse to see real crimes, as long as the individual committing them has the right credentials for doing something that they approve him doing. Beyond that, it indicates that credentialism, which most in the journalistic community depend on for their entre and continuing status, is a hollow idol, that is cracking. Lastly, it shows that they are *not* morally and intellectually superior to their opponents, and can make mistakes that put in the shade, by numbers of victims, all associations they make between pro-life groups and those who threaten or assault doctors who do abortions.

Inga said...

And to be clear, white women who are repeat aborters are also STUPID, but they got preferential treatment upstairs.

Lem said...

The assumption is that the main stream press doesn't cover black on black crime.

Lem said...

"The hardest thing to see is what is in front of your eyes."

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

When we don't want to see something, we will go to great lengths to avoid seeing it.

Chuck66 said...
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Chuck66 said...

Renee, what's sad is that what you say is true. How do my Repbulican (well, at least socially conservative) relatives adapt?

1930s.....from a neighbor who needs to hide an unwanted pregency. Or through contacts at a hospital but its the same situation.

1960s.....adaption agencies, often religous based.

Since Roe....they spend thousands of dollars and it takes nonths, if not years. They go to Phillipines. Russia. South America.

We don't special order our adopted children.

Renee said...

and mothers usually want to keep their babies.

DADvocate said...

Henneberger's as much of the problem as any of the left wing media. She was hating on Christians during Katrina, calling them selfish, etc despite the huge amount of aid given Katrina victims by Christians.

I'd be surprised is any of this bothers that Henneberger that much. She's putting on a facade to look caring and compassionate. Read her stuff over the years. She's another one of the liberated women, like Hillary, who rides her husband's coattails.

Pogo said...
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Pogo said...

We need to update the game of Clue, and remove The Study, but instead have a room called The Uterus.

The new rules would be that anything that happened within its walls was not murder. Outside the walls, it's murder.

Scissors, candlestick, lead pipe, whatever, all are fine. Doctor, Colonel Mustard, whoever, fine.

It would be very instructive for kids, and help them understand abortion.

Michael said...

AlanS: Can't top that one about the subscriptions.

We would be a much safer country if you had been picked out of ranks and promoted to General. You appear to be the only person on this blog who is not insane, this writer included.

Pogo said...

SCOTUS needs to let a woman's uterus have a penumbra, so she can decide what falls within her umbrella of "things that just need killin'".

It could maybe extend out like 50 feet or even 5 city blocks, depending on how she feels that day.

carrie said...

If this is an isolated case and shouldn't be publicized because it could lead to over-reactions and over zealous restrictions on abortion, then shouldn't the Newtown shooting be viewed the same way in terms of gun control?

carrie said...

If this is an isolated case and shouldn't be publicized because it could lead to over-reactions and over zealous restrictions on abortion, then shouldn't the Newtown shooting be viewed the same way in terms of gun control?

Nathan Alexander said...

Inga, I've pointed this out to you several times.

You may say anything you want on a discussion board. You saying you oppose abortion after 8 weeks is nice, but what are you doing outside this forum to push society and law to your 8-week limit?

Because even though you say you want an 8-week limit, everything you've done when abortion comes up as a topic is provide top-cover and support for those who advocate unlimited abortion.

If you truly consider it morally wrong to abort after 8 weeks, you would never vote for a Democrat again in your life. Because the moralities of SSM, taxes, contraception, etc, all pale in comparison with the morality of life and death.

Jay said...

Inga is "pro-choice.

Pro-choice policies kept Gosnell's clinic open despite reports of multiple deaths at his clinic.

Black women were a large cohort of Kermit Gosnell's "patients" In fact, black women are over represented as a % of population in abortions with over 33% of abortions involving black women.

Inga called a young black woman who was raped and became pregnant and who had to go see Gosnell, a man enabled by policies Inga supports, "stupid"

Inga is clearly racist.

Nomennovum said...

Because even though you say you want an 8-week limit, everything you've done when abortion comes up as a topic is provide top-cover and support for those who advocate unlimited abortion. -- Nathan Alexander

The limit is just a pose. All that chin-rubbing is just cover for a frivolous, inconstant, and not-very-bright woman. The pose wouldn't stand up to the mildest of disagreement by one fat, unhappy feminist friend.

JL said...

Shouting Thomas said:
I ask again... Can we demand anything from women in terms of behavior? Can we ever just say "no, you can't have what you want to women?"

I agree with this. The women with the "I had an abortion" T-shirts are a symptom of a sick society. Our culture has made many women selfish and irresponsible.

The reality is that no matter what birth control is available or what restrictions are put in place, some women, out of desperation, ignorance, laziness, selfishness, etc., will seek out late term abortions. But just because some women may turn to "back-alleys" to murder their child doesn't mean we as a society have to condone the practice by making it easier for them. Relaxing inspections and regulations of abortion clinics -- as the pro-choice lobby wants-- will lead to more Gosnells, not less.

Perhaps education/counseling about adoption, or education about what a late term abortion actually entails would have some effect. There could be an ad campaign against late term abortions; it doesn't have to be lurid-- just videos of babies in the womb. But all this is considered right wing propaganda and the pro-choice lobby calls it a "war on women". They enable the Gosnells by demonizing any attempts to reduce abortions, such as through education. We need to have the courage to stand up to them.

Shouting Thomas said:
Our fathers were right. Time for the men to be back in charge.

I don't agree with this. Women are not children or property. And all men are not shining examples of responsible behavior. Someone is impregnating these women-- they are not doing it to themselves.

Some men can be bullies; I would never want to return to a time when a women is at the mercy of some brutish asshole.

wyo sis said...

Inga
I was not specifying you.
If you self-identify with any of the groups I mentioned then you can take it as being directed at you if you choose.

In general, and provably so, as this and other comment threads show feminists, leftists and the media support abortion to the point that any attempts to regulate abortion clinics is greeted with massive outcry about women's rights.

Is it the word celebrate the one you object to?

Dante said...

This seems far too beyond any point to be considered anything but murder.

However, isn't this clinic exactly the kind of place pro-abortionists use to prevent laws against abortion? It's not far removed from the back alley and the coat hanger.

The other issue is that it isn't that much different from Partial birth abortion. If this became serious news, it would bring partial birth abortion center stage.

A discussion of partial birth abortion at the national level must not happen. I can't imagine very many people, once aware of what's going on, would think it moral, and that would put a part of the leftist agenda at risk. Perhaps even the Hispanic vote, too.

Nomennovum said...

I would never want to return to a time when a women is at the mercy of some brutish asshole.

Yes. It is much better living in a time when men are at the mercy of controlling, nasty, hypergamous bitches.

Kirk Parker said...

JL: "I would never want to return to a time when a women is at the mercy of some brutish asshole."

Nn: "Yes. It is much better living in a time when men are at the mercy of controlling, nasty, hypergamous bitches."

If only those weren't the only options available to us!

JL said...

Just be clear where I stand: I don't think abortion is murder or homicide when the fetus is still just a clump of cells. (I fully respect the opinion of those that disagree, BTW.) I agree with St. Croix and others that brain activity should be used to define life. Aborting a fetus that has a nervous system, by suction or cutting or any method, is murder to me, even when it takes place in a nice sterile environment.

JL said...

If only those weren't the only options available to us!


I don't believe it is. But that's a topic for another time.

Marshal said...
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