January 15, 2013

"In all these cases, and many others, liberals take positions that make them look good and feel good..."

"... and show very little interest in the actual consequences for others, even when liberal policies are leaving havoc in their wake."

This is the tragic flaw of liberals. I have seen it so clearly living in Madison, Wisconsin all these years. I believe these are people who really do care about goodness: They want to be good. If I could get one idea through to them, it would be: Goodness requires vigilance against the pursuit of the feeling that you are good, complacency about the belief that you are good, and satisfaction with the goal of achieving your own personal goodness.

150 comments:

Jay said...

and show very little interest in the actual consequences for others, even when liberal policies are leaving havoc in their wake."

Yes, like ObamaCare.

ObamaCare does the following:

Increases federal spending on healthcare
Increases federal taxation on citizens
Leads to higher insurance premiums
Leads to crappier insurance coverage - companies are also offering fewer insurance policy options.
Leads to fewer insured individuals.

jr565 said...

IS this talking about Aaron Shwartz?

ricpic said...

Liberals are cats who never get past the licking themselves all over stage.

Seeing Red said...

The ideology is never flawed, it's the person implementing it.

We're the ones we've been waiting for, we'll get it right this time!

And the destruction continues.

Shouting Thomas said...

Yes, liberal feel-good theories made a hellhole out of New York City back in the 60s and 70s.

Rudi rode in on his horse, rounded up the bad guys and threw them in jail.

The kids have forgotten the lesson. How long will it be until they try, once again, to make NYC into a liberal Utopia?

bpm4532 said...

It really must be a religion. Such unquestioning of the things they are told are true. Such willing adoption of the fears of the catastrophes they are told are about to befall them and the support for insane solutions.

Unfortunately, in a democracy this dynamic can continue on for quite some time with disastrous results. The people won't believe their desires were at fault, but that they just need a perfectly benevolent dictator to make it all right.

That person will have been sent down to them to save them all.

jr565 said...

It really must be a religion. Such unquestioning of the things they are told is true. Such willing adoption of the fears of the catastrophe's they are told are about to befall them and the support for insane solutions.

A lot of modern day liberals claim to be atheists. As such, the only real morality is their own. So how could they ever be wrong?

Big Mike said...

I think you should add that liberals should be prepared to go back and assess the effects of their policies and regulations and laws on real people.

A case in point is Head Start. Every assessment of Head Start I've ever seen agrees that it is a waste of time of money. ut liberals would rather turn their firstborn sons over to Jerry Sandusky than to consider cancelling the program and applying the savings elsewhere.

Mitchell the Bat said...

A tragic flaw destroys the protagonist.

jr565 said...

The kids have forgotten the lesson. How long will it be until they try, once again, to make NYC into a liberal Utopia?

WHy do most liberal utopias end up looking like cess pools?

Shouting Thomas said...

When it comes to violence, the liberal panacea is that everybody should become a pacifist, and attempt to cultivate a life of gentleness and kindness.

The problem with this theory is... What if even one person won't comply and decides to conquer the others with force?

Quayle said...

And related to this, for the past 50 - 60 years most of our art has been a lie.

It has excelled at vividly portraying only certain passions and emotions, and has totally ignored communicating the burdens and consequences.

How well our artists have portrayed the thrill of sexual passion and desire.

How poorly the pain and degradation of betrayal of the former spouse or lover.

How well we've artistically explored the freedom of no constraints.

How poorly we've explored the pain of young children watching their parents’ divorce.

bagoh20 said...

Even tougher is that good results often require doing things that may make others think you are a bad person, a mean person, and OMG maybe even a conservative. It's a paradox. Do good or look good - do good or feel good. What's a good person to do?

Bob Ellison said...

Your description is good, Professor. But lefties also follow this strange admonition: judge yourself against other people. If you are better than the other person, then you're OK. If you favor carbon taxes even while you drive your SUV to the conference in Manhattan, you're OK.

This feeds the identity-politics motive. I'm black; I'm female; I'm disabled. I'm better than the others, because I have this special quality. Even if I take my pay in cash and lie on my 1040, I'm good. There's no God to judge me anyway. I'm good.

MadisonMan said...

As I read stories about Beijing's current pollution issues, I think that some liberal policies are very beneficial.

Leslie Graves said...

This reminds me of the general quandary of the pursuit of moral goodness; say, through a church.

It's not all that hard to get one's head into evaluating one's moral goodness by checking things off a list and then feeling morally superior if you have a lot of checkmarks on it, as it were.

This is why people object to churchgoers to who pride themselves on their church-goingness and moral righteousness, when things in their family, community, etc., really aren't all that good, and yet that person does not appear to be aware of that or, if they are aware of it, to care about it in any way that would require them to act.

Quayle said...

When it comes to violence, the liberal panacea is that everybody should become a pacifist, and attempt to cultivate a life of gentleness and kindness.

The problem with this theory is... What if even one person won't comply and decides to conquer the others with force?


Shouting is right.

The left exalts the primacy of science and the certainty and beauty of Darwinian processes.

Yet condemns any human act that would mimic the Darwinian struggle.

They tell us it's all Darwin, but they don't want it to be all Darwin.

They tell us that the entire universe was set in motion by an incomprehensively large bang.

But that buying a Prius and getting an additional 15 mpg! is materially significant and so very important and consequential.

One wonders how they keep the whole world view from flying apart, until one sees the huge effort that goes into destroying anyone that dares point these things out, and the amount of calculation that goes into regulations that keep the thing put together.

I can hardly keep from laughing at the arrogance.

AprilApple said...

As soon as the big liberal idea falls apart, the big liberal media move on.
With liberals, It's the original feeling of superiority and the good intentions that matter. The negative consequences can be ignored and then blamed on others.
It's time to move on to the next big idea that will further erode our rights and freedoms.

khesanh0802 said...

I couldn't agree more. When will the pendulum start swinging back toward sanity? Obama is certainly doing his best to alienate the great unwashed in America. He is strong on tactics, but I think others in his party are going to pay for his weakness in taking care of the "strategic" big picture.

The reaction, when it comes - and I become daily more convinced that it will come - will restore some degree of sanity and personal responsibility to our populous.

bagoh20 said...

I hear you Madison Man, but it is a tough call when you consider all the perspectives, like with millions of people living and dying in abject poverty, the Chinese needed radically fast economic activity just to keep their people alive.

Here in Los Angeles, the air quality standards have made an incredible difference, since I arrived here in 1981. You see that every day and it's hard not agree it was a good thing. There were substantial costs, and I saw a lot of people lose their businesses and jobs. The thing is, the activity just moved to China, where they polluted even more. We got the clean air, but lost the jobs. They got the pollution but raised their standard of living a hundred fold. Overall, I'd say it was the right trade off for both societies, but then again, I didn't lose my business, and I'm not Chinese.

I do think it could have been done on both sides much smarter with less sacrificed, but the change was almost inevitable.

Quayle said...

The entire visible and invisible universe - the sun, the planets, black holes, solar systems colliding, supernovae - all if them are being driven by the energy of a fantastic explosion.

But you, there! You in Ottumwa Iowa! Yes you! You better change your light bulbs in your 2 bedroom bungalow or else you are going to destroy us all.

Are these people even sane?

jr565 said...

The problem with this theory is... What if even one person won't comply and decides to conquer the others with force?

You can see this at work with pretty much all the famous pacificsts.

jimspice said...

I've oft said, if forced to describe the fatal flaw of liberals in one word, I would choose the word "naive." For conservatives, that one word would be "mean."

Paul Zrimsek said...

"You will find these very feeling people are not very ready to do you good. They pay you by feeling." -- Dr. Johnson

Seeing Red said...

Don't understand human nature or basic econ.

I told hubby yesterday, Bernake said:

Ben Bernanke: Get rid of the debt ceiling, it has no practical value

So I told him I'm going to get rid of ours and go shopping.

Jay said...

HA HA HA HA!

To Community College of Allegheny County's president, Alex Johnson, cutting hours for some 400 temporary part-time workers to avoid providing health insurance coverage for them under the impending Affordable Health Care Act is purely a cost-saving measure at a time the college faces a funding reduction.
But to some of the employees affected, including 200 adjunct faculty members, the decision smacks of an attempt to circumvent the national health care legislation that goes into effect in January 2014.
"It's kind of a double whammy for us because we are facing a legal requirement [under the new law] to get health care and if the college is reducing our hours, we don't have the money to pay for it," said Adam Davis, an adjunct professor who has taught biology at CCAC since 2005.


ObamaCare: hitting the institutions that support Obama at a 90%+ clip the hardest!

While "bending the cost curve" down, of course!

AprilApple said...

Bagoh - You make a great point.
Made in China: Our Toxic, Imported Air Pollution

TosaGuy said...

The "feel good, look good" liberals are not the problem.

It's the liberals who know that their shit don't work, but pursue it because it brings them power and control. It's these evil bastards who pull the strings of the first group that are the problem.

Seeing Red said...

It's wonderful to feel good using OPM.

TosaGuy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

It's evolution.

Problems that respond well to direct action have already been solved.

What's left is problems that respond to direct action with perverse consequences.

Those are the ones that the left tries again to solve with direct action.

The right mostly believes in perverse consequences, and so is mostly always right.

The right tends to be older and wiser, as the saying goes. They've seen it before.

AprilApple said...

ObamaCare is the largest liberal "feel good" failure of all.

Widmerpool said...

Proposing public policy solely on the basis of sentimentalism is a very bad idea.

X said...

jimspice said...
I've oft said, if forced to describe the fatal flaw of liberals in one word, I would choose the word "naive." For conservatives, that one word would be "mean."


when people start losing their jobs, incomes, and homes due to obamacare, it will be because liberals are naive and conservatives are mean. it must be comfortable to believe this.

TosaGuy said...

Actually, Jim Spice, not only is handing able-bodied people something for nothing very naive, it can also be the meanest and most debilitating thing you can do to them.

bagoh20 said...

So what does this say about educated intelligent liberals? It ain't pretty. Does Krugman really believe that if we just break every window in America we can be prosperous again?

Paul said...

For jimspice this belief allows him to wallow in his smug feelings of moral superiority even while acknowledging that liberal policies result in negative unintended consequences, because naive is better than mean doncha know.

bagoh20 said...

You aren't naive if the facts are yelled at you every day and you just don't care. That is height of meanness. Thinking conservatism is mean is the height of naivete.

Seeing Red said...

--The right tends to be older and wiser, as the saying goes. They've seen it before.--

The right doesn't live in a bubble?

We paid attention to history?

LordSomber said...

They may want to be good, or be seen as good, but it really begins with doing good, which I see little of.

edutcher said...

Tosa's right, of course, people like Chuckie Schumer are like the Communist apparatchiks in the Soviet Union; they gave up on the struggle years ago and are just in it for what they can get.

The interesting thing is that, if it's a religion, Doubting Thomas is not tolerated, so it's more of an Islam thing than anything else. Anyone who disturbs the orthodoxy must be destroyed.

Funny part is, they're scared to death of the people they're most like.

Paddy O said...

This is the best succinct description of liberalism I've read. (the quote and the post).

This is exactly what I've seen hereabouts in California.

One caveat. Not all are good. Some are hucksters to take advantage.

That's precisely why liberals have to be especially vigilant against corruption. The trouble is that so often they are the least interested in dealing with actual corruption.

Which then makes liberalism into an actual evil--stealing from the poor it purports to help.

Conservatives can be corrupt, and hucksters, and evil too, don't get me wrong. Which was why the tea party got started.

Marshal said...

jimspice said...
I've oft said, if forced to describe the fatal flaw of liberals in one word, I would choose the word "naive." For conservatives, that one word would be "mean."


Realistic is the word he's looking for.

Larry J said...

bagoh20 said...
So what does this say about educated intelligent liberals? It ain't pretty. Does Krugman really believe that if we just break every window in America we can be prosperous again?


There's a difference between intelligence and wisdom (hint: being wise is better). There's also a difference between being educated and being intelligent. Today, being educated is more likely being credentialed. It doesn't mean you learned much of anything practical.

One of the key aspects of intelligence is learning from experience. When something fails, you find out why and try something different. If that still doesn't work, you rethink the problem and try again. How can someone who doesn't learn from failure be considered intelligent? Obama and other liberals keep pushing socialist policies that have failed around the world, so it seems they're unable to learn from experience. To my mind, that means they're unintelligent.

Einstein once said that one definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting a different outcome. By that definition, liberals are not just unintelligent, they're insane.

roesch/voltaire said...

Yes another fatal flaw of Madison liberals can be seen in our bike paths which end up being abused by conservative bloggers.

AJ Lynch said...

Bullshit Althouse- they are hateful, resentful pricks like George Packer. Want proof? Mention Texas or Marco Rubio or private equity or Fox News to a liberal and watch the venom drip from their lips.

wyo sis said...

If naive and mean translate to childish and responsible then I agree.
Children always think parents are being mean when they make them do things that aren't easy, but are correct.

LordSomber said...

"Obama and other liberals keep pushing socialist policies that have failed around the world, so it seems they're unable to learn from experience. To my mind, that means they're unintelligent."

Some cynic once said that socialists don't care that the system doesn't work, as long as it just keeps them in power and punishes their enemies.

John Vaci said...

“…tragic flaw in liberals…” comes perilously close to Luther’s Doctrine of Justification. The word “good” comes from the word “god”. Here’s the deal: God is good and so were we…he said that himself. But we just had to have the knowledge of good and evil…just had to be like God. God alone judges what is good but we want to control our destiny because, after the fall, we were hard-wired to try to work our way back in. Our conscience is both a blessing and a curse. It is a blessing that we don’t eat each other but it sure can mess with your mind!
This is the tragic flaw in our human nature—we honestly believe we can be like god and control our own justification. We do good to put points on the board. Time after time surveys confirm that most people when asked say there is a heaven and that they are going there instead of hell because, for the most part, they did good not bad. Hard-wired.
Back to Luther: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8 sorta gets to nub of boasting about good works. The entire chapter forms Paul’s treatise on the subject.
That’s the Reformation in a nutshell which planted the seed of liberty and in turn caused a lot of wackos to cross the Atlantic and to ultimately come up with a government for the people.
I don’t think we can have a true understanding of Western civilization’s inhabitants until we can our heads around the bible fully and its meaning and resulting impact.

bagoh20 said...

The only flaw I can see with conservatism is a lack of vigor and the poor communication of ideas that comes from that. Liberals would likely see the same faults on their side.

Now some things like environmentalism which are actually conservative values are good, but the left's love of totalitarian solutions makes them foul endeavors when they do it.

If we could just get the left to appreciate liberty, we would get along a lot better, and accomplish a lot more good.

Pookie Number 2 said...

jimspice said...
I've oft said, if forced to describe the fatal flaw of liberals in one word, I would choose the word "naive." For conservatives, that one word would be "mean."


You know who else is mean? Oncologists. It's not bad enough that some poor guy has cancer, oncologists actually want to cut him open and expose him to radiation. The only reason is mean-ness!

William said...

After the Communists came to power in China, they rounded up all the prostitutes. The women were "reeducated" and then released. They went back to prostitution, They were rounded up again and executed. Western reporters marvelled at how the Reds had created, almost overnight, a society that was free of prostitution. They attributed it to the equitable distribution of wealth and not to the mass murder of prostitutes......There have been worse crimes in China than air pollution, but you will never hear about them.

wyo sis said...

What word describes the use of liberal naïveté to further totalitarianism?

Brew Master said...

This is the tragic flaw of liberals.

A tragic flaw of liberals? It is naive and ignorant to hold the views they (liberals) do in the face of contrary evidence. This often comes from youthfulness, or inexperience. However, this is exploited by power brokers who care nothing of the people they affect. They use the 'tragically flawed' to gain power. Once in power they then use the tools that power provides to cement as many people as possible in a position where they are recipients of the largesse of power, and who will then provide support for the 'benefactor' maintaining that power.

The promotion of individual liberty is the death knell of power seekers. The consequence of individual liberty is reponsibility for your own outcome.

Thus, power seekers seek to shield individuals from consequences, and by doing so continue to amass more power. This is the death of freedom. We have long passed the point in this country where individual liberty, and its responsibility, are promoted as virtuous behavior. Those that promote the position of liberty are categorized as mean, heartless, or any number of other emotionally rooted terms.

oldirishpig said...

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Now that is succint.

Nonapod said...

It's sad that most people are incapable of changing their political philosophy after a certain age. It's impossible for many liberals to admit that they may be in error, even when the facts are staring them right in the face. We've seen this over the past few weeks on full display during both the fiscal cliff and gun debates. In both cases the hard facts are clearly on the conservatives side, and I get the feeling that many liberals know this, but they still choose to ignore them.

Shouting Thomas said...

The flaw of conservatism is that it is the lack of something.

Conservatism is a catch-all for people who want to be left alone by government, leave tradition be, go their own way without help, etc.

It's not advocacy of something. Which is why liberals have so much trouble understanding it.

Brew Master said...

Shouting...

I disagree that 'conservatism' is a lack of something.

Conservatives very much believe in many things. Often they believe in more things that 'liberals'.

The desire to be left alone from government is not 'nothing', but rather the understanding of the principle of self determination. This is not 'nothing', but rather encompasses many more ideas and beliefs than the entire 'government must do something' crowd.

Liberals may not be able to understand conservatives, but that doesn't mean that conservatives stand for 'nothing.

TMink said...

If my wife needed brain surgery to remove I tumour, I would want her to get it. But if I had attempted 40 years of brian surgeries and none had been successful, I would get some one else to do the surgery, or at least try a different technique.

Not so liberals. Good intentions squish under the feet of the clueless and lost.

Trey

X said...

call me a cynic, but almost all lefties I see benefit monetarily from the politics they support. there's nothing altruistic about calls for more government and higher taxation from government employees and beneficiaries. pigs at the trough screaming for more slop.

Michael said...

I was banging away on the treadmill this morning listening to the Talking Heads and watching CNN without sound. This Soledad woman is very angry and she and her panel are discussing a number of topics but at one point they are talking about how Coca Cola is making everybody fat and how Coca Cola should stop doing that. Their faces were very frowny and then very satisfied because I think they had agreed that Coca Cola had some explaining to do. I seriously doubt, judging from their facial expressions, if any of the smart panelists noted that Coca Cola has been producing Coca Cola for generations. Why now are they making people fatsos when before they were not, or not as many. The idea of personal responsibility gets in the way of feeling good and smug about calling out Coca Cola for making people get fat. Fucking making them. Sad.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

wyo sis said...

What word describes the use of liberal naïveté to further totalitarianism?

Is MSNBC a word?

purplepenquin said...

While I agree with the basic premise, is it really only limited to "liberals"?

For example, the conservative "feel good" policy of our War on Drugs leaves a lot of havoc in its wake. Innocent people gunned down in their own homes, increased corruption in our police forces, shoot-outs in the streets between gangs trying to protect their sales-turf, dangerous drug labs in residential neighborhoods...the list goes on&on.

Same think with Voter ID laws. While I'm sure they are good intentions involved, we still end up with a bunch of nuns who aren't allowed to vote.

AprilApple said...

The communist attempt to stop all greed has boomeranged and now greed and obnoxious selfish behavior is common culture in China. I have some American friends who moved to Hong Kong for a year. They experienced this first hand.

Jay said...

purplepenquin said...

For example, the conservative "feel good" policy of our War on Drugs leaves a lot of havoc in its wake.


Um, dum-dum, the "war on drugs" is a bi-partisan enterprise.

Fail.

Chef Mojo said...

@PP:

Where on Earth do you get the impression that the War on (Some) Drugs is a conservative idea?

In 1935 the president Franklin D. Roosevelt, publicly supported the adoption of the Uniform State Narcotic Drug Act. The New York Times used the headline ROOSEVELT ASKS NARCOTIC WAR AID.

Via Wikipedia, with citations.

The War on (Some) Drugs has been going on in one form or another since 1914, and there's big money invested in its continuation.

ed said...

Or more pithy:

The road to Hell is paved with Liberals.

Michael said...

PurpleP. War on drugs is a giant failure. It is not and has never been a "feel good" project.

ed said...

@ PP

"Same think with Voter ID laws. While I'm sure they are good intentions involved, we still end up with a bunch of nuns who aren't allowed to vote."

Considering the insignificant requirements to vote then these very same nuns must be completely unable to rent a car, rent a hotel room, have a bank account, fly in an airplane, buy alcohol or tobacco products and amongst other things be unable to buy Sudafed cold medicine.

Because having a free legitimate photo identification card is =hard=.

X said...

PerplePenguin, if we could just get the pubsec unions to quit supporting the war on drugs for their own financial benefit we might make some progress.

ed said...

@ Brew Master

"Liberals may not be able to understand conservatives, but that doesn't mean that conservatives stand for 'nothing."

In my experience:

Conservatives think Liberals are crazy.

Liberals think Conservatives are evil.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

call me a cynic, but almost all lefties I see benefit monetarily from the politics they support. there's nothing altruistic about calls for more government and higher taxation from government employees and beneficiaries. pigs at the trough screaming for more slop.

Agreed. Except for a few college kids, all the liberals I know fall into this category.

purplepenquin said...

Where on Earth do you get the impression that the War on (Some) Drugs is a conservative idea?

From Nixon. And Reagan.

*shrug*

The folks who show up at Harvest Fest ain't exactly the Tea Party crowd.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Considering the insignificant requirements to vote then these very same nuns must be completely unable to rent a car, rent a hotel room, have a bank account, fly in an airplane, buy alcohol or tobacco products and amongst other things be unable to buy Sudafed cold medicine.

Yup, the article I read made it clear that these nuns did very little...if any...of those activities.

Plus it is a bad comparison anyways...those other activities don't require the same kind of ID that Voter ID requires. (For example, how is an underage child allowed to fly on an airplane when they don't have a Driver's License or State ID?)

jr565 said...

The other problem with liberals is they are so damn hypocritical. They for the most part don't believe in objective morality, so for them the only true sin is being a hypocrite. Which they have no problem accusing others of being.
Yet they, again and again, live by the "For Me but not for thee" mantra, meaning that they are the biggest hypocrites. For the latest examples you can look to Al Gore selling his station to AL Jazeera which is funded by Qatar, or DIck Gregory holding up a gun magazine on the air, but then not thinking that the law should apply to him.
But those are just tips of the icebergs. Then there's the feminists saying they would bring out the presidential kneepads for Clinton. Again, tip of the iceberg.

mccullough said...

Some people just like having the power to tell other people how to live.

Mick Havoc said...

Bismarck called socialism "government of the house by the nursery."

P.J. O'Rourke once said the main C/L divide is that one side believes in God, while the other side believes in Santa Claus.

Liberals need Conservatives.
Conservatives don't need Liberals.

Brew Master said...

purplepenquin said...

From Nixon. And Reagan.

*shrug*

The folks who show up at Harvest Fest ain't exactly the Tea Party crowd.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yup, the article I read made it clear that these nuns did very little...if any...of those activities.

Plus it is a bad comparison anyways...those other activities don't require the same kind of ID that Voter ID requires. (For example, how is an underage child allowed to fly on an airplane when they don't have a Driver's License or State ID?)


Nice that you overlook Obama in your 'war on drugs is from conservatives' belief. Or all the other Democrat presidents we have had since FDR. Selective much? Name me a Democrat president that has liberalized the use of drugs.

Where is an underage child allowed to vote? Your examples are nonsensical and a product of willful ignorance.

chrisnavin.com said...

I live in Seattle.

Amen.

Good luck with that though. Don't immanentize the eschaton!

Paul said...

".. and show very little interest in the actual consequences for others, even when liberal policies are leaving havoc in their wake."

Just shut up they said. And that is another liberal flaw. They feel their opinion is right and really don't care what you say (and they may tell you that violently.)

purplepenquin said...

Nice that you overlook Obama in your 'war on drugs is from conservatives' belief

So you beleive that each&every policy that Obama embraces are "liberal"?

That's cute. Thanks for sharing...

jr565 said...

"I was banging away on the treadmill this morning listening to the Talking Heads and watching CNN without sound. This Soledad woman is very angry and she and her panel are discussing a number of topics but at one point they are talking about how Coca Cola is making everybody fat and how Coca Cola should stop doing that. Their faces were very frowny and then very satisfied because I think they had agreed that Coca Cola had some explaining to do. I seriously doubt, judging from their facial expressions, if any of the smart panelists noted that Coca Cola has been producing Coca Cola for generations. Why now are they making people fatsos when before they were not, or not as many. The idea of personal responsibility gets in the way of feeling good and smug about calling out Coca Cola for making people get fat."

Coca Cola doesn't make anyone anything.
It's drinking Coke that might make you fat but Coke doens't force anyone to drink their product.
And its not like you're skinny one day and then you drink a single Coke and suddenly you're fat.
How can we blame a product for the choices of a consumer over a lifetime when you don't have to use the product?

chickelit said...

John Vaci said...
The word “good” comes from the word “god”.

Um, false cognate?

The word "good" comes from lefties inserting "O" into "god." More pagan idolatry.

Jay said...

purplepenquin said...

So you beleive that each&every policy that Obama embraces are "liberal"?


You merely asserting that the "War on Drugs" is a conservative idea isn't an argument.

Your ignorance also isn't an argument.

Crunchy Frog said...

Liberals are cats who never get past the licking themselves all over stage.

Q: Why do dogs and cats lick their own balls?

A: Because they can.

Brew Master said...

purplepenquin said...

So you beleive that each&every policy that Obama embraces are "liberal"?

That's cute. Thanks for sharing...


Obama is a liberal, or are you claiming he is a conservative? His record of enforcement on medical marijuana states is out there for all to read, and he is cracking down more so that GWB. Was GWB a liberal because he enforced less?

Please explain to me how you square this with your views that the war on some drugs is a product of conservatism.

You mutate your definitions of what policy belongs in what camp based on partisan political leanings and not on objective facts.

Why is it such an anthema idea to criticize liberals for bad policy?

Bad policy is just that, no matter who espouses it. Once you can figure this out, you will grow as an adult and put away kneejerk defense of partisan politicians. Until you can do so, you are an unserious child.

Sam L. said...

Only (ONLY) intentions count. Results, outcomes: Pfui!

Inga said...

Crunchy Frog,
Why do dogs smell each other's asses? Cause that's how they bond?

fobw12 said...

Some people just like having the power to tell other people how to live.

What, like, “If I could get one idea through to them, it would be: ”?

Shouting Thomas said...

Why do dogs smell each other's asses? Cause that's how they bond?

No, Inga, that's not it.

My dad told me the story when I was a kid.

All dogs are originally from Ohio. That's why their assholes are shaped like Os.

Eons ago, there was a great dog party. Checking one's asshole at the door was required as good etiquette. So, every dog hung his asshole on a coat hanger and checked it at the door.

A fire broke out and the dogs ran in a panic for the exit.

In the panic, the dogs could only grab the first asshole within reach.

Ever since, dogs have been searching... searching for their long lost assholes.

jr565 said...

Brewmaster wrote:
Obama is a liberal, or are you claiming he is a conservative?

I think what our lib friends are recognizing is that Obama is kind of a hypocrite, i.e. saying one thing but then doing another. They seem to think that that makes him not a liberal.
When, as already discussed, hypocricy goes hand in hand with liberalism. If that were a factor that would somehow discount liberals from being liberals, there would be like 6 liberals in the world right now.

purplepenquin said...

Why is it such an anthema idea to criticize liberals for bad policy?

I never said it was. Rather I simply asked if it really is only liberals who make bad policy with good intentions.


Perhaps I've misread ya: Are you saying that conservatives never do as such? Or is your objection to the examples I gave, and instead you have other examples in mind? Please clarify....

Petunia said...

The English word "good" has nothing to do with the English word "god".

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=good

X said...

Inga said...
Crunchy Frog,
Why do dogs smell each other's asses? Cause that's how they bond?


for some reason I'm reminded of Ben Roethlisberger on NFL QB's on facebook

purplepenquin said...

Bad policy is just that, no matter who espouses it. Once you can figure this out, you will grow as an adult and put away kneejerk defense of partisan politicians. Until you can do so, you are an unserious child.

Sorry I missed this the first time. (That personal insult at the end polluted your comment)

That is actually what I'm trying to say as well...despite the picture our hostess is trying to paint, this isn't just a "liberal" thing.


I'm glad to see we actually agree about this after all...tho I wouldn't go as far as you do by labeling the professor an "unserious child".

Tyrone Slothrop said...

In addition to Althouse's dicta, I would add this-- by all means do what you believe are acts of goodness, but have the courage to examine what you have done to see if your ends have actually been achieved. Liberals never do this.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Inga, I'm sure you know very well how bitches bond with one another. Plenty of ass sniffing for you eh?

I disagree with the contention that most liberals are good people who want to do good. Maybe the youngest ones who don't know any better.

Most liberals have a pathological need to look down on and dismiss any ideas that do not conform to whatever the latest collectivist thinking is in vogue. They need to constantly reinforce to one another how "superior" they are morally and intellectually to the dreaded conservative others.

This is because the vast majority of liberals are without any redeeming value or accomplishments, and deep down they know it. Their worldview is one big psychological feedback loop to keep out the reality of their own shortcomings.

purplepenquin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
gerry said...

The liberals screw up an area of the country with stupid policies that delude themn into thinking they are do-gooders, then they move into an area governed by practical conservatives because taxes are lower, it's cleaner, and safer, until they form a majority and then they turn it into shit.

Meanwhile, back in their old digs, things are turning around, so they go back and re-destroy it.

Not very self-aware, are they?

traditionalguy said...

Safe people are still around from 250 years of Judeo-Christian culture; but the secular humanist push to eliminate that influence everywhere and for any reason has hollowed out the strength of American culture. That has been going on for 120 years and infects all thought taught in Educational institutions.

We have become free from faith in God and by that act we became enslaved to faith in a delusional Walt Disney world, Liberal FantasyLand.

Truth is the missing ingredient. Remember that Foucault declared Truth dead soon after Neitzsche and Altizer declared God dead.

Rusty said...

MadisonMan said...
As I read stories about Beijing's current pollution issues, I think that some liberal policies are very beneficial.

Which has what to with us?

chickelit said...

We have become free from faith in God and by that act we became enslaved to faith in a delusional Walt Disney world, Liberal FantasyLand.

I don't easily countenance such off-hand disparagements of Walt Disney regarding faith -- not since Carol_Herman came over and tried to push that agenda. link.

Here's a brief reference to the man's faith: link

The antipathy the left feels for Disney is rooted in the man's politics, not his faith or lack thereof.

Darury said...

Plus it is a bad comparison anyways...those other activities don't require the same kind of ID that Voter ID requires. (For example, how is an underage child allowed to fly on an airplane when they don't have a Driver's License or State ID?)

So you're suggesting that under-age children should be allowed to vote without ID as well?

Rusty said...

A liberal is someone who's life's work is annoying other people. A conservative is someone who want's to be left the hell alone and not annoy anybody.

Brew Master said...

purplepenquin said...
While I agree with the basic premise, is it really only limited to "liberals"?

For example, the conservative "feel good" policy of our War on Drugs leaves a lot of havoc in its wake.

-------------

Same think with Voter ID laws.


The war on drugs is bi-partisan bad policy, not a conservative one as you asserted. I think that you have now agreed?

Voter ID laws are not rooted in emotionalism, but rather in the rule of law. Whether or not you will admit it to yourself, voter fraud does happen (the same with SSDI fraud, welfare fraud, medicare fraud, food stamp fraud, name any government program fraud, fraud is endemic to man and worse when public monies are available for distribution). Wanting to strengthen the instituation of voting is not emotionalism, it is attempting to reinforce the belief that voting matters.

What will happen in this country when faith in voting is gone due to systematic weakening of the institution? Will people be willing to accept the results of elections peaceably when they doubt the integrity of the process?

Your examples are not indicative of emotionalism in conservative policies. Same-sex marriage would have been a better example, THAT is emotionalism right there (and a stance that I disagree with, I personally think government should have nothing to do with marriage, hetero or otherwise).

The professors assertion is that she see's the results in Madison liberalism. Her observation is undoubtedlly clouded due to the environment in which she is immersed.

I do not live in Madison, but I happen to agree. The majority of liberal policies that I disagree with are based more on a desire to feel good about themselves, and are not concerned with the actual outcomes of those policies. (citizen disarmmament, welfare expansion, defined benefit pensions, elective demand abortion, extreme environmentalism, minimum wage/living wage, this list can go on and on)

I do not oppose these because I'm a knee jerk conservative, but rather because I see that they have more negative consequences than positive ones.

John said...

"The Law of Unintended Consequences" is as natural as Gravity - and nearly as consistent.

The more offensive aspect is choosing to accept the consequences - knowing that you won't be affected by them.

TosaGuy said...

Liberals are really good at living in enclaves where they are essentially carbon copies of each other. These usually are quite nice neighborhoods free of the problems that may plague the rest of the city they live in. If the city can pull it off (San Fran), then the poor and underclass are shifted to a whole different city (Oakland)!

If the wrong type of minority or poor person dare enter their sanctuary such liberals reveal the nasty inner part of them that they project onto non-liberals.

It's much easiery for liberals to claim to be for the poor when those poor are a mere concept, not actual people with thoughts, views and behaviors potentially different from our sensitive friends.

Alex said...

Interesting that Inga is into ass sniffing.

Alex said...

One thing I've noticed about liberals is there is never any debate amongst them. They are of one mind, like the Borg.

Keystone said...

The word is that Obama will use children as a back drop for his anti gun initiative. That will make liberals feel good. Conservatives will properly see it as child abuse.

Inga said...

Alex will smell anyone's ass, liberal and conservative, he's an equal opportunity sniffer.

Inga said...

"Liberals are really good at living in enclaves where they are essentially carbon copies of each other. These usually are quite nice neighborhoods free of the problems that may plague the rest of the city they live in.

If the wrong type of minority or poor person dare enter their sanctuary such liberals reveal the nasty inner part of them that they project onto non-liberals."

1/15/13, 1:22 PM

Tosa Guy, perhaps you want to quantify that?

Scott M said...

Wanting to good for the sake of doing good, good for goodness sake, has Proust written all over it and the results end up about as well as loving love for love's sake.

MadisonMan said...

Bagoh - You make a great point.
Made in China: Our Toxic, Imported Air Pollution

Yes. Still, I'd rather have the pollution be produced in China than here in the USA. I recognize there is a cost involved, both job-wise here, and health-wise there.

Seeing Red said...

Start with San Francisco, Inga. The we can move on to was it George Lucas who wanted to donate property for low income housing?

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Madison, Hyde Park, the Upper West Side, most of northwest DC, Coral Gables.

Quantification.

TosaGuy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TosaGuy said...

"Tosa Guy, perhaps you want to quantify that?"

Just about any place east of the Milwaukee River.

TosaGuy said...

The leftiest of the lefty enclaves in the Milwaukee area -- Shorewood -- is pretty good at nabbing people for Driving While Black.

gerry said...

Liberal bullies, generating hate and anger for the betterment of humankind. Yet they feel good. And this is almost too good to be true.

Inga said...

I must be the outlier, I live in Waukesha County the reddest dot on the Wisconsin map.

Inga said...

You should come see the attention black people in cars get when they drive around the lake, by the local cops. So it would seem that conservatives are not all that different than liberals in that regard, I guess.

TosaGuy said...

Lake country is a good place to live, Inga.

TosaGuy said...

"You should come see the attention black people in cars get when they drive around the lake, by the local cops. So it would seem that conservatives are not all that different than liberals in that regard, I guess."

Wisconsin (I'm not a native) does have it's peculier brand of racism doesn't it. But the libs set themselves up to being better than that....they are not.

Inga said...

Yes, Lake Country is a gem, Tosa Guy.

Seeing Red said...

If they wanted to live in Milwaukee, they would live in Milwaukee.

chickelit said...

re quantification: It's cliche and it's true: liberals cluster in cities.

At first glance, any red-blue map looks like JJ Thomson's plum pudding model of the atom. But upon closer inspection, every liberal enclave centers around a nucleus.

chickelit said...

Inga said...
I must be the outlier, I live in Waukesha County the reddest dot on the Wisconsin map.

You are a little solar system unto yourself. :)

Inga said...

Chickie, yup lots of Martian and Venetian conservatives in my orbit.

Seeing Red said...

You choose to live there, Inga. They probably think the same of you.

Inga said...

Seeing Red, well I'm glad if they think the same of me, we happen to like each other and get along quite well. Go figure.

Some of them are even related to me!

chickelit said...

Chickie, yup lots of Martian and Venetian conservatives in my orbit.

Lot of room for the mercurial, the saturnine, the plutocrats and even uranuses.

Methadras said...

Democrats, the party of Easy which can be quantified by the Staples easy button. Go ahead leftards, hit it. It'll make you feel good consequences be damned.

Methadras said...

gerry said...

Liberal bullies, generating hate and anger for the betterment of humankind. Yet they feel good. And this is almost too good to be true.


Leftards of any stripe will cannibalize each other for the betterment of what they believe is the better of the leftist causes.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Chickie, and don't forget about the lunitary types.

kevin soy said...

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Seeing Red said...

Ahhh, the greedy capitalist SIL?

Inga said...

Seeing Red, greedy Capitalist? The two don't need to be paired, nothing wrong with benevolent Capitalism. My SIL is a great guy, a social liberal in many aspects, as are most folks around here, there are the occasional RRs who do not associate with us sinners at any rate.

Inga said...

Anyone here heard of the Quadracci family? They are a big employer in Wisconsin, Democrats, Capitalists and it's a feather in the cap of any conservative resident of this area, to be lucky enough to be included in their social circle.

Inga said...

And no I'm not related to them.

Inga said...

Here is an example of a benevolent Capitalist

CWJ said...

Inga, that link you provided was a very interesting story, and a good idea on quad graphics guy's part. Thank you. However, as the comment to the article implies, it does have something of a "company store" feel to it.

But I see it as similar to the wheels within circles of Ptolomy's geocentric solar system. Its another circle added upon previous circles in order to keep the whole employer provided health insurance/care system functioning. In turn as the lead paragraph suggests, what further wheels and levers will need to be grafted onto Quadmed to make it Obamacare compliant? Where are Copernicus and Kepler when you need them?

Inga said...

Quad Graphic was unique in its healthcare offerings, they are still unique. It's a good model and I hope many other employers can make it work with Obamacare. We shall see I guess. To reign in health care costs, you'll see health insurance companies doing similar things.

Only one complaint isn't bad, I could tell ya horror stories about my health insurer.

Inga said...

Rein, not reign.

Rabel said...

Thanks to gerry for the link at 2:15.

chickelit said...

Inga said...
Rein, not reign.

Reign works as well as rein on the whole.

jamesbbkk.com said...

@Madison Man: "As I read stories about Beijing's current pollution issues, I think that some liberal policies are very beneficial."

Any chance the folks supporting the policies and laws that caused the cessation of economical heavy manufacturing in the US would stop also caterwauling about: how the US doesn't make anything anymore, how the middle class is being hollowed out, how those evil corporations are "exporting" jobs in response, and how there is too much income inequality that is somehow ameliorated by taxing those with higher incomes? NB: incomes are pre-tax by definition.

Joe Schmoe said...

Environmental policies are not inherently 'liberal' or 'progressive'. That hasn't stopped the Demos from trying to co-opt the successes of the conservative concept of conservation. But, since they always overdo shit, now they think we should do more than conserve our resources and landscapes. They think we should euthanize humans and return the earth to Gaia and the animals. Funny thing though. I've never met a prog who was willing to start the movement by taking themselves out of the food chain.

Joe Schmoe said...

Seriously, no conservative thinks polluted rivers that catch fire are good for anything.

This exposes another weakness of progressives. They think something is either conservative or progressive. No concept of something that resonates beyond ideological clanging.

Kchiker said...

Conservatives are so _____.
Liberals are so _____.

How boring.

While I agree that the advice Ann cites is good for liberals, it is also good for conservatives...as this thread proves.