November 10, 2012

"If you’re in the con game and you don’t know who the mark is … you’re the mark."

An old David Mamet quote, deployed in the second-to-last sentence in an article titled "Campaign Sources: The Romney Campaign was a Consultant Con Job."

174 comments:

edutcher said...

I'd take anything off RedState with a grain of salt.

The size of Utah.

Erick Erickson and crew spent all year trying to undermine everybody they didn't like.

Except Democrats.

Palladian said...

I love the torrents of sourceless bullshit that flow after a Republican loses a major election.

Bender said...

Consultant con job?

Like I said the other day, much of campaign finance is a scam -- all that money they are "spending" is simply going to enrich the pockets of the campaign staffs and their friends in the political consulting business. Win or lose, they profit.

JohnJEnright said...

“the Obama training manuals made ORCA look like a drunken monkey slapped together a powerpoint”

Nothing brings on devastating recriminations like defeat.

ricpic said...

Does this mean that Michael Barone, the premiere analyst of party strength in the country, at the county level, who called it strongly for Romney, was also conned? Was George Will conned? No. All the indications were that it was going to be another wave election, ala 2010. But guess what? white working class voters were less than thrilled by Romney, despite his much larger than Obama rallies in the last days of the campaign. Romney got fewer Republican votes than McCain! Totally unexpected by the biggest experts out there. No con. Sometimes a misreading is a misreading and nothing nefarious.

Bender said...

The fact is that Mr. "I Saved the Olympics and am the Only Person in the Entire History of the World for the Job" ran a bad and incompetent campaign.

I am still waiting to hear a reason to vote for him beyond "he's not Obama."

Quayle said...

The working class whites did not show up for the guy that reminded them of the person that always shows up and lays off them or their friends.

Romney didn't close the deal.

chrisnavin.com said...

I, for one, welcome our union, rent-seeking, nanny statist, technocratic, tax and spend, green/feminist/old Civil Rights apparatus overlords.

Freedom AND equality are next!

The people have spoken, for now and for all times.

ed said...

Speaking as a professional software developer who is looking at this rather briefly:

1. Looks like a potential market for a phone app for the TEA party crowd.

2. This GOTV app was a disaster in the making in part because you don't go live with a new untried and untested system the *morning* of the most critical day. Evidently reports are that this system went live at 6am on Nov 6th. Utterly insane if that's the case.

Instead the system should have been in constant use and refinement over the past 2+ years as people used it, gave feedback on it and offered potential enhancements.

3. People were expecting an actual mobile app since the software was referred to officially as an "app". In the day and age of mobile applications why it wasn't an app and just a mobile enabled website is frankly beyond me. Doesn't make any sense I can imagine.

4. Supposedly the base website was a SSL enabled "https" site with no forwarding from the "http" URL. Which is frankly evidence of incompetence.

5. Not everyone lives in Los Angeles or NYC and has perfect connections or access to wifi. A web based solution that relies on a webserver to provide constant interactivity is a less optimum solution because if anybody loses their connection then they are pretty much SOL. Additionally the extra bandwidth require to communicate to the GOTV user would potentially impact the userbase adversely.

Meanwhile a mobile app that can store information locally on the smartphone, ipod touch, ipad or android device would enable people to cycle into and out of communications with the central servers updating the database and acquiring new tasks as needed.

So I'm rather curious to see if the Romney Campaign files some lawsuits. Quite a few consultants and bigshots are looking pretty silly at the moment such as Karl Rove.

And I have to agree with the Liberals here that the signal failure of Mitt Romney to hire dependable competent people in such significant positions of authority is a serious argument against his candidacy. The most important job a CEO has is hiring and acquiring the top notch management team needed to accomplish the goals desired. If you can't do that then nothing else is possible since you won't have the necessary executive support to attain those goals.

Not good.

SteveR said...

If you had looked at what happened in 2008, knowing you had four years to change or improve certain things, and knowing all you managed to do was win Indiana and North Carolina, you (meaning republicans) simply failed across the board and anybody who got paid was incompetant, at best. Country first

woof said...

I wonder if the software had a a EULA that stated the software was warenteed for its intended use and not responsible for any damages. It would be ironic if its development had been outsourced to Bangalore.

tim maguire said...

It's ironic if true--Romney's biggest selling point is that, next to him, Obama has the economic understanding of a drunken monkey.

Isn't he an experienced manager?

Phil 3:14 said...

Do "anonymous" sources think this will protect their professional lives and allow to get more work in the future. This is a repeat of the post election recrimination within the McCain in 2008.

edutcher said...

Quayle said...

The working class whites did not show up for the guy that reminded them of the person that always shows up and lays off them or their friends.

Romney didn't close the deal.


Don't think so.

They knew the score and knew what was at stake. Look at the turnouts he got every time in OH.

Just remember, the Lefties project like Bell&Howell and they're always screaming, "Voter suppression!".

Think about it.

virgil xenophon said...

I always heard the saying as "If you're in a card game, look around, and don't know who the sucker is, get up, YOU"RE the sucker."

YoungHegelian said...

Campaigns are notoriously incestuous & ego driven affairs. For example, the Dukkakis campaign had no one in its management circle who was not from Massachusetts.

I go the same vib from the Romney campaign when, on one of the few times anyone from it appeared on TV, they sent Bay Buchanan to appear on O'Reilly. Bay Buchanan's only reason to be that high up in the Romney campaign is that she is a highly-visible convert to Mormonism. The Romney campaign people, including Romney, should have been all over TV, especially Fox, with Romney & Ryan giving multiple interviews. Didn't happen.

I was on the e-mailing list from both campaigns. The Obamaites sent out 20 times as many "touches" as the Romneyites. And, I mean, shit, email is basically free when you get it set up.

I was on the Reagan/Bush I transition team as a computer systems guy. I e-mailed my contact info to the Romney campaign. Did they even follow up with an email or phone call for a resource like that? take a guess.

sane_voter said...

Romney blew it and we have to pay the price. Obama is quickly blocking US oil/gas/coal development, releasing a torrent of Obamacare regulations, planning to raise taxes and generally behaving like he did the last four years. As a result this is kicking off millions of layoffs for the middle class. Great Recession II here we come.
Just think we have 4+ more years of this to look forward to . . .

Rose said...

I took RedSate off all my feeds some time ago. It might as well be the Huffington Post. No kudos for them.

pm317 said...

Erick Erickson?!


That weasel who appears on CNN and can't speak up when he should? Who said we should take him seriously.

pm317 said...

And I have to agree with the Liberals here that the signal failure of Mitt Romney to hire dependable competent people in such significant positions of authority is a serious argument against his candidacy. The most important job a CEO has is hiring and acquiring the top notch management team needed to accomplish the goals desired. If you can't do that then nothing else is possible since you won't have the necessary executive support to attain those goals.


Sounds like concern trolling. We have heard this kind of bullshit before. Obama ran a stupendous campaign but what the fuck is he giving you in return? You are looking at the shiny penny. Romney could look at balance sheets and understand what is in them and get fiscal things under control.

I wonder if there was a mole. I wonder if this product rollout was too ambitious for the time frame they had. We should think about the primary woes Romney went through as well with sickos like Santorum nipping at his ankles which later became cause for Obama's biggest ladyparts campaign.

Bender said...

I go the same vib from the Romney campaign when, on one of the few times anyone from it appeared on TV, they sent Bay Buchanan to appear on O'Reilly

Let's not forget John "Souter" Sununu as a campaign surrogate.

Howard said...

Truth is Stranger than Fiction:

Mr. Slick Corporate Consultant famous for bankrupting companies allows Slick Corporate Consultants to run his campaign into the ditch.

Cost of running for President, $1.5Billion. Choking on your own Bull$hit, priceless.

Howard said...

Wait, no. bm317, you are right. It was a mole that the incompetent fukktards let run free in their inner sanctum that did them in. Anyway you parse it, it's clowns all the way down.

Chip S. said...

If Sean Trende's analysis proves right, that the missing Romney voters were working-class whites, then I'd say a far more important feature of his campaign than crappy software was the almost complete absence of Sarah Palin.

Of course, I don't know if that was b/c he didn't want her, or she didn't want him.

Alex said...

One thing I've noticed since Nov 6th is a flood of new users, every single one a leftist.

pm317 said...

Let's not forget John "Souter" Sununu as a campaign surrogate.

What are you talking about? Sununu was great. He called the CNN fools, fools to their face.

pm317 said...

One thing I've noticed since Nov 6th is a flood of new users, every single one a leftist.

Yeah, it is the ABR crowd on the right or the lefty fools that are piling on Romney. Obama is getting away with murder and mayhem meanwhile.

jr565 said...

ricpic wrote:
Obama rallies in the last days of the campaign. Romney got fewer Republican votes than McCain! Totally unexpected by the biggest experts out there. No con. Sometimes a misreading is a misreading and nothing nefarious.

That is true, but Obama also got less votes than last time, and fewer blacks and women voting for him. John Mcain's numbers from last time would have beaten Obama's numbers this time. In fact Obama had ten million fewer votes.
That is a serious drop off.
The other issue for lower turnout may have been the media's emphasis on the 11 swing states.
Libertarians increased their vote count,but voted for someone who would NEVER win EVER EVER EVER. So thanks for wasting your vote. Luckily those million or so voters weren't enough to edge Obama over, but the republicans have a bunch of Naderite traitors in their midst. Or if not traitors, at least voters who are not sufficiently reliable.

edutcher said...

Chip, the one problem with that is that in '08, people had grudges against Junior - McCain-Feingold, amnesty, etc.

This time people knew what was coming at them - ObamaTax and its inherent death panels, fiscal cliff, Taxmageddon. inflation, more layoffs.

And there were few of the protestations of staying home. The crowds Romney was getting and Zero wasn't. The enthusiasm gap even the network polls conceded was there.

That 4 - 5 point gap a week before the election (which, if you plug the 8 mil into the final vote totals, you get a similar bulge for Romney).

The fact we have Chicago at the national level with 4 years to get the fix in.

And, remember, every state Romney took had a voter ID law.

Think about it.

jr565 said...

pm317 wrote:
Sounds like concern trolling. We have heard this kind of bullshit before. Obama ran a stupendous campaign but what the fuck is he giving you in return? You are looking at the shiny penny.
Did Obama run a stupendous campaign though? It may look that way only because he won. But if you look at the raw numbers he would have lost to Mccain. And Mccain was considered to have run a lackluster campaign.

Chip S. said...

Has any ABR commenter yet told us what other candidate would have won? Newt the bloated loudmouthed corruptocrat? Santorum the defender of the faith? Perry the incoherent frat boy?

If you didn't vote b/c Romney wasn't conservative enough, then you were the problem, not him.

jr565 said...

Bender wrote:
The fact is that Mr. "I Saved the Olympics and am the Only Person in the Entire History of the World for the Job" ran a bad and incompetent campaign.

I am still waiting to hear a reason to vote for him beyond "he's not Obama."

In this election, that was frankly enough. Someone wishy washy on free market principles is a lot better than someone outright hostile to them.

jr565 said...

Chip S wrote:
Has any ABR commenter yet told us what other candidate would have won? Newt the bloated loudmouthed corruptocrat? Santorum the defender of the faith? Perry the incoherent frat boy?

If you didn't vote b/c Romney wasn't conservative enough, then you were the problem, not him.


I have one friend who on Facebook keeps mentioning Ron Paul. SOmeone asked him, "Do you think Ron Paul would have won against Obama?" and his honest answer was "Yes".
I like my friend, but that is delusional.

LEts face it. OBama had a decided advantage being the incumbent. And being a historic president.Even if his record sucked balls, he maintained blind party loyalty. So, it would be very tough to beat him.
Except that Mccain would have. ONly probalby not this election. THe real issue is turout was down for both parties. 13 million people didn't vote this time around, and we were all thinking it was going to be a groundswell of voters on both sides.

jr565 said...

Chip S wrote:
Has any ABR commenter yet told us what other candidate would have won? Newt the bloated loudmouthed corruptocrat? Santorum the defender of the faith? Perry the incoherent frat boy?

If you didn't vote b/c Romney wasn't conservative enough, then you were the problem, not him

With friends like Bender, who needs enemies. He might as well have voted for Obama.

Gahrie said...


I am still waiting to hear a reason to vote for him beyond "he's not Obama."


This should have been the only reason necessary.

Mamie said...

Chip S.:

If Sean Trende's analysis proves right, that the missing Romney voters were working-class whites, then I'd say a far more important feature of his campaign than crappy software was the almost complete absence of Sarah Palin.

Of course, I don't know if that was b/c he didn't want her, or she didn't want him.


---------------------------------------------

Just went over to Palin’s Facebook page and found she had a long post on August 12 congratulating Romney on picking Paul Ryan: “We must now look to this new team, the Romney/Ryan ticket, to provide an alternate vision of an America that is fiscally responsible, strong, and prosperous – an America that understands and is proud of her exceptional place in the world and will respect those who fight to secure that exceptionalism, which includes keeping our promises to our veterans.”

After that it’s pretty much radio silence on Romney. So, I’d say she was pretty upset by the ticket avoiding her like the plague. And I’d imagine all those who turned out for McCain because of her were furious.

pm317 said...

@jr565 Did Obama run a stupendous campaign though?

I don't think so but low info voter is led to think that by highlighting the oppositions' silly little snafus. My point is running a campaign and being a competent president are not even close.

They did the same thing in Dem Primary 2008 about Hillary. If you can't even run a campaign -- yeah, silly you, you didn't think to cheat in the caucuses and run up your delegates, you moron, you don't deserve to be president.

See what I am talking about?

jr565 said...

One reason to vote for Romney is that he said he would overturn Obama care. Now, even if you can argue that he's full of shit on that, the fact that he made that promise means he would have to try to do so, lest he risk pissing off his constituents. Republicans seem far more capable of holding their leaders to accoutn for shortcomings.
Another reason is because he stressed local energy production. Even if you say he was full of shit on this, he was running against a guy who said his policies woudl NECESSARILY bankrupt the coal industry and who's energy secreatary said gas should be 8 dollars a gallon. Just two examples but I could name many more.
ROmney as imperfect a conservative as you could find is still MILES above Obama. And Bender felt this was the time for a litmus test on absolute perfection in conservatism, even though all the people running had major flaws, considering they all lost to Romney in the primaries.

Pogo said...

""If ...you don’t know who the mark is … you’re the mark."

We non-government workers are the marks.

Our first clue that we are no longer a Republic was Justice Roberts (*spit*) declaring a penalty a tax.

The rape of the energy industry and payouts to fake green companies ("solar" and "wind" and "car batteries" ....tee hee) were more evidence.

Benghazi too.

We're the marks. We're meat for their appetite. Workhorses for our masters. Cows to be milked.

The Cloward–Piven strategy won. There's no way out.

I'm a mark no more, however. As a drone for the State, they will get out of me slightly less than they put in, as has happened every other time it's been tried.

Dumb fuckers.

ed said...

@ pm317

"Sounds like concern trolling. We have heard this kind of bullshit before."

May I pronounce myself extremely pleased that you're well experienced in bullshit?

Like I pointed out in the past; I'm a fiscal conservative, not necessarily a Republican. Why? Because the GOP isn't necessarily conservative and I support conservatism. But the one thing refuse to do is sugarcoat anything. If something is shit, then it's shit and that is all there is to it.

You want me to sugarcoat things for you? Yeah *Romney* is going to be inaugurated on January 20th 2013. It just looks like Obama.

Aside from providing overall direction and focus for an organization the most important skill a CEO has is assembling the management team. You are specifically invited to refute this statement. Show me how a CEO can effectively run a multimillion dollar organization without a competent management team. This is basic stuff.

This is also why I severely discounted Herman Cain. He showed me early on that either he didn't particularly give a shit enough to assemble a good management team or he simply didn't have the chops for it. And here's another clue for you; sometimes the person who assembles the management team is a subordinate of the CEO because the CEO doesn't have that skill or ability.

As for the mobile app vs mobile enabled website my criticisms still hold. A mobile app would have been easy to do. Hell if the Campaign had put out a request for a mobile app I would have coded one for free as I those routinely. I would have done it just to not have Obama for another 4 years. I still might for the TEA party folks if one isn't already available.

edutcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
edutcher said...

If we're talking about con games, looks like we've got some newbs running interference for the real one.

Consider

Much of NY is still in the dark, but Zero's back on the links.

PS Nobody thought Axelrod and Plouffe were doing so well much of the year.

Supposedly, Choom had a concession speech all ready.

ed said...

And since I'm being accused of "trolling" let me get a few things out there:

1. WTF is wrong with Romney that he could not or would not fight back on the Bain attacks?

2. Sorry but how is not involving the TEA parties or Palin a winning strategy? I'm not quite understanding how a "get out the base" election somehow is more effective if they don't actually, you know, get out the base.

3. Mitt Romney has wanted to be President for the past 12 or so years now. For someone with $250+ million dollars and over a decade to prepare, plus having campaigned at least once before for the job, he showed pretty much zero competence for the position.

The first debate he did a nice job. But the failure to put Obama on the defensive is frankly strange. If you're not punching back, you're the punching bag. Why this is news to Romney is something I'd like to know.

jr565 said...

O e problem with the perfect republican issue is that it discounts the fact that conservatives can hold the moderate to account for not sticking to the agenda. That won't happen if Obama continues to be president.you may not get a conservative that is the next incarnation of Reagan, but you stop the momentum of Obama. You at least get your foot in the door with someone who vows to end Obama care. Guess what? if Romney then got all wispy washy, voters and house republicans can put him in his place. And if he is concerned with reelection then he would need to please his constituents, which would suggest that he would try to govern more conservatively. But even if he as a squish moderate, this still better than THE GUY WHO PUT OBAMA CARE IN PLACE. If libertarians or third party types are serious about dealing with entitlement reform and you only have two choices - the guy who says he will act on your behalf or the guy who raised the debt by 6 trillion in 4 years, who implemented some of the largest growth in govt in modern times, and who if he wins again will protect those policies for at least 4 more years. If you choose at that moment to demand perfection in a candidate and so vote for some obscure guy in a party that will never win. Why then you are dumber than Obama voters. You have the least right to complain about growth of government.

Joe said...

Don't ignore the impact of the anti-Mormon, anti-Romney Republicans during the primaries. Even when Romney had the nomination sewn up, these people (like John Hawkins) didn't let up. In the end, I believe this election was ultimately lost by social conservatives.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys.

This must be related to Nic Cage in Raising Arizona, who has the coolest scene of celluloided (stealing that newspaper).

Let's just all steal more newspapers, like Nic Cage, to start.

Being more like Nic Cage that is.

ed said...

@ jr565

"O e problem with the perfect republican issue is that it discounts the fact that conservatives can hold the moderate to account for not sticking to the agenda"

1. I voted for Romney. I might have held my nose a bit though.

2. I don't demand perfection. I demand some level of conservatism. I demand competence. I also demand a pumpkin spice latte, some coffee cake and a blowjob from Cindy Crawford. So far today; zip.

3. Conservatives have demanded a wall across the southern border for the past 30+ years. I invite you to show how squishy Republicans have been held to account for that failure.

And in other news ... still no Cindy Crawford.

K in Colorado said...

Ed, I signed up early for Project Orca. When I called into one of the nationwide phone conference training, the whole thing as described was an app not a mobile website. There was going to be a version for every platform, and you were supposed to able to enter info and then leave to find a wifi spot to upload if you needed to

It was never described as a mobile website. When the opened up for questions there was someone who self described as a software developer that asked the very same questions: is this mature, has it been stress tested, will it handel 20000 people uploading at the same time and so on.

After reading about this fiasco I am royally Pi**sed. We should have at least matched McCain! I mean, Obama lost several million votes from last time.

jr565 said...

ed said:
2. I don't demand perfection. I demand some level of conservatism. I demand competence. I also demand a pumpkin spice latte, some coffee cake and a blowjob from Cindy Crawford. So far today; zip.

3. Conservatives have demanded a wall across the southern border for the past 30+ years. I invite you to show how squishy Republicans have been held to account for that failure.

I agree that conservatives have a knack for noth following through. But I was talking more for those conservatives that did not vote for Romney.
When the choice is someone who claims to be conservative but who might be wishy washy about it, or someone who claims and acts as a liberal socialist, now is not the time to fault that conservative for not being conservative enough. It's still a better choice than the lib/socialist/progressive or whatever you want to call them.
Get the "conservative" in the door, then hold him to accoutn for his conservatism. But that's the only chance you'll have to get your agenda passed. You'l NEVER get it if you reelect Obama. And you'll make it harder for future presidents to undo the problems created by Obama who will now have four more years to inflict damage.

AJ Lynch said...

If we are doing Monday Morning Quarterbacking, short of a nuke bomb exploding in a US city during his presidency, I don't think a REPUB could overcome the 247 tongue bath Obama gets from the local and national MSM.

AJ Lynch said...

And let's face it, Obama is barely has the experience to be the mayor of a small city like Harrisburg, PA. But still the folks re-elected him.

Bottom line is we will now have had very inadequate presidents for 16 straight years [2000-2016]. No wonder we are so screwed.

Alex said...

AJ - no that's for 24 straight years(1993-2017).

edutcher said...

ed said...

And since I'm being accused of "trolling" let me get a few things out there:

1. WTF is wrong with Romney that he could not or would not fight back on the Bain attacks?


He wasn't allowed to use that money until he was officially the nominee.

BTW, this nonsense of having the conventions around Labor day is for the birds.

Somebody enlighten me, that only started with Zero, true or not?

Before that, it always seemed one side had their in July, the other in August.

jr565 said...

Joe,
Actually I'm not sure that it was the evangelicals. They came out pretty strong for Romney. At least in terms of the percentage split. 78% went for Romney, only 21% went for Obama. Now, I'm not sure if more evangelicals went for Mccain, or if the number of evangelicals voting was smaller than previous elections.
But if some evangelicals didn't vote for Romney and Obama is now president they should weigh whether they think they won someting versus what they are going to have to pay. It was evangelicals talking about the harm to religious freedom of Obama's poicies. If that harm didn't outweigh their bigotry, then frankly - fuck em.

Pogo said...

"A review of voter registration data for ten counties in Colorado details a pattern of voter bloat inflating registration rolls to numbers larger than the total voting age population. Using publicly available voter data and comparing it to U.S. Census records reveals the ten counties having a total registration ranging between 104 to 140 percent of the respective populations."

ed said...

@ edutcher

"He wasn't allowed to use that money until he was officially the nominee."

Isn't that matching federal funds? Hell even after the Convention I still didn't see much of a pushback on the Bain attacks.

Or how about the "10 years of tax returns" attack? I would have liked to see something of a pushback there where Romney could have said "sure thing. how about Obama's college transcripts in exchange?".

And seriously. No answer to the accusation that he caused a woman's death from cancer by eliminating her healthcare!? They had the information on the guy and the opportunity to hammer him and they chose not to. And being unanswered that attack was treated as the truth.

No excuse for that.

David Davenport said...

Don't ignore the impact of the anti-Mormon, anti-Romney Republicans during the primaries. Even when Romney had the nomination sewn up, these people (like John Hawkins) didn't let up. In the end, I believe this election was ultimately lost by social conservatives.

Then why did Romney carry all the Southern states which have many socially and culturally conservative voters? Old stock Christians in the former Confederate states are traditionally not fond of Latter Day Saint cultists.

I know what you really mean: "I'd like the Republicans better if they abandoned socio-cultural conservativism.... Although I'd still vote Democrat, as usual.

edutcher said...

As far as I recall, he couldn't do anything much wrt ads until the convention - he was short of money.

Most of the ads were third party PACs.

PS I do think there are a lot of people trying to find fault with him when they should be looking elsewhere.

From my vantage point in NE OH, there was plenty of support for him and little for Zero. I think a lot of this complaining about Romney wants not to address the possibility this election was stolen on a grand scale.

YMMV.

machine said...

"...the truth is the consultants essentially used the Romney campaign as a money making scheme, forcing employees to spin false data as truth in order to paint a rosy picture of a successful campaign as a form of job security."

Sounds like they got "Bained"...

machine said...

"And his central campaign message was that he was a better manager than Obama."

sizzle...

edutcher said...

The mindless automaton thinks he's won because Romney lost. Romney was and is the better manager.

Zero couldn't manage a flea circus and the mindless automaton knows it.

All he's managed is the fiscal cliff.

And Taxmageddon.

And ObamaTax.

And is the mindless automaton foolish enough to think he is immune?

(prolly)

Bob Ellison said...

The Mamet quote is glib and cute. Everyone likes it, especially leftists. It starts with the assumption that everyone is evil. If everyone is evil, then your only gate is the knowledge of that fact. Extreme cynicism sells.

But what if not everyone is evil? What if a critical mass of people is not evil?

Leftists tend to assume malevolence. Rightists tend to assume benificence.

I'd rather live in a world where assumption of benificence is valid.

Freder Frederson said...

No. All the indications were that it was going to be another wave election, ala 2010.

No, all indications (which of course just had to be wrong because the pollsters were deliberately skewing the results) were that although Obama had lost some support since 2008, he retained enough of his base to be re-elected.

You didn't like the message so you just made shit up.

All the wishful thinking in the world can't change reality.

machine said...

"Romney was and is the better manager....Zero couldn't manage a flea circus"


Maybe...but they each had one day to show us....and show us they did...


Revenant said...

Romney ran as Obama Lite. That was the key error -- not over-reliance on consultants.

People who wanted Obama voted for him, and people who didn't were turned off by Romney's inability to say exactly what he'd do differently.

Tim said...

Romney lost; he lost for some good reasons, and he lost for some bad reasons.

I'm much more concerned for all the bad reasons.

Voters preferred to double down on failure.

Voters prefer redistribution and dependency to job creation and independence.

Obama's failures are manifest.

If, despite the Obama's obvious failures, one still preferred him to Romney, one is either stupid, or so committed to a failed ideology that it's manifest failure provokes no reexamination or thought, which, of course, makes one stupid, but in a different way.

Revenant said...

Maybe...but they each had one day to show us....and show us they did

Well, they showed us which of the two was better at getting elected. :)

AprilApple said...

There's a a photo of a real con man on Drudge right now.

Revenant said...

Tim,

Here's the problem: yes, Obama was and is a terrible President. Probably the worst since Hoover.

The problem is, it was and is patently obvious that Romney wasn't proposing a real alternative. He was for increased military spending, against tax increases, and against cuts to Medicare and Social Security. Which, objectively speaking, means he's FOR running Obama-sized deficits for the next four years at least.

He ran as socially conservative and economically Obama.

Bob Ellison said...

How will it end? We've got Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Petraeus, and a slew of lesser things like the amazing incompetence of Geithner, Holder, H. Clinton, and Napolitano.

We've got four more years of this, and a Republican House of Representatives. This won't end well.

edutcher said...

Freder Frederson said...

No. All the indications were that it was going to be another wave election, ala 2010.

No, all indications (which of course just had to be wrong because the pollsters were deliberately skewing the results) were that although Obama had lost some support since 2008, he retained enough of his base to be re-elected.


He lost 10 million votes and still won?

If Freder is stupid enough to buy that one, he deserves his Messiah.

Happy fiscal cliff.

machine said...

Romney was and is the better manager....Zero couldn't manage a flea circus


Maybe...but they each had one day to show us....and show us they did...


Ask the people on Staten Island without power.

Or food.

There's Zero's management skills.

edutcher said...

Revenant said...

Tim,

Here's the problem: yes, Obama was and is a terrible President. Probably the worst since Hoover.

The problem is, it was and is patently obvious that Romney wasn't proposing a real alternative


Disagree, but Revenant loves being the contrarian.

pm317 said...

Romney ran as Obama Lite.

That is exactly what the Obama minions wanted you to think. And you did.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

I thought FOX, Rove, Rasmussen and the Republicans were all trying to con Althouse into anticipating an unlikely outcome for the election.

Maybe she was the mark. Or maybe the problem is that the cons are their own marks.

It's what happens when you try to convince yourself of your own BS.

pm317 said...

After reading about this fiasco I am royally Pi**sed. We should have at least matched McCain! I mean, Obama lost several million votes from last time.

Voters didn't need this s/w. They didn't even know it existed. They just needed to go to a polling place and vote and they did that for other republican presidents and other candidates for ages. Why didn't they do that?

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Voters preferred to double down on failure.

Espexially in the House of Representatives!1!11111!!!!11!1

Bob Ellison said...

pm317 said "They just needed to go to a polling place and vote and they did that for other republican presidents and other candidates for ages. Why didn't they do that?"

They did. There weren't enough of them. The takers out-number the makers nowadays.

O Ritmo Segundo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
O Ritmo Segundo said...

BTW, this nonsense of having the conventions around Labor day is for the birds.

Somebody enlighten me, that only started with Zero, true or not?

Before that, it always seemed one side had their in July, the other in August.


Oh, you guys had plenty of nutjobs to sort through! You had to let the process take some time!

And then there was the time it took to figure out which convicted, doe-eyed looking, young Randroidian would offset his smarmily callous social ineptitude with the slightest hint of puritanically pristine economic/social-conservatism.

Too bad he wasn't white enough.

edutcher said...

Obviously, Ritmo doesn't know (surprise!).

So he yammers.

pm317 said...

Bob Ellison said...
---------------

I agree. But these concern trolls are saying that it was all about Romney's ORCA.

Michael K said...

" Blogger Bender said...

The fact is that Mr. "I Saved the Olympics and am the Only Person in the Entire History of the World for the Job" ran a bad and incompetent campaign.

I am still waiting to hear a reason to vote for him beyond "he's not Obama."

He knew how to arrest the decline into fiscal chaos. As HL Mencken said you made your choice and now you deserve to get it good and hard.

Have fun.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

He knew how to arrest the decline into fiscal chaos.

Lol. By FIRING Toledo's autoworkers! Great idea!!!

Maybe just admit that as long as you can no longer rely on pandering preponderantly to a privileged establishment, you might actually have to come up with some sensible ideas?

Bob Ellison said...

pm317, I assume by "ORCA" you don't mean "Optimized Robot for Chemical Analysis". I don't know what you mean.

I think Romney ran a good campaign. Possibly too good-- it ain't beanbag, and Obama showed himself willing to lie and cheat to win, and Romney kept saying things like "he might be a good man". It makes me sad.

Michael K said...

"
After that it’s pretty much radio silence on Romney. So, I’d say she was pretty upset by the ticket avoiding her like the plague. And I’d imagine all those who turned out for McCain because of her were furious."

I'm a Palin fan, unlike most women I know, and noticed that she wasn't asked to speak at the convention. I don't know what effect this has but it was clear Romney was not a fan of hers.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Wait, Michael K. Running the Olympics is a GREAT credential for a world leader!

Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

You could have bs'd as much with his credentials as he did (and the rest of you do) with Obama's. It's just that his ideas (to the extent that they didn't deviate from the party line) were bad.

jr565 said...

O Ritmo wrote:
Maybe just admit that as long as you can no longer rely on pandering preponderantly to a privileged establishment, you might actually have to come up with some sensible ideas?

And what SENSIBLE ideas has Obama brought up to help deal with record unemployment and anemic growth? And to cut entitelemts?
Did he even offer anything but more of the same at the election?
Also, the budget he proposed was rejected by everyone including all dems. His Simpson Bolles suggestion HE ignored when they told him to do stuff that went against his inane proposals. And dmeocrats havent' submitted a budget in 3 years!
So your side has some nerve asking for sensible proposals and suggestions of pandering.

jr565 said...

Ed wrote:
You want me to sugarcoat things for you? Yeah *Romney* is going to be inaugurated on January 20th 2013. It just looks like Obama.

No actually, Romney did not look JUST like Obama. That is farcical. You just accepted an even big pile of steaming shit because you found Romney to be stinky. Enjoy the smell.

jr565 said...

Michael K wrote:
He knew how to arrest the decline into fiscal chaos. As HL Mencken said you made your choice and now you deserve to get it good and hard.

Have fun.

Well said. Bender made the perfect the enemy of the good and so accepted the worst instead.

shiloh said...

"John Mcain's numbers from last time would have beaten Obama's numbers this time."

McCain 2008 = 59,934,814

Obama 2012 = 61,785,502 and still counting

One reason for Obama's lower vote total is Hurricane Sandy as NY/NJ had over 2 million fewer votes than 2008. And several other states along the east coast as well.

Did I mention Willard was a train wreck who inspired no one? He had to run 95% negative ads to beat fellow train wrecks Santo/Newt/Perry/Cain/Paul etc. Too funny!

Kind of ironic Rep voter suppression/disenfranchisement backfired and just motivated minorities even more to vote. Karma!

Revenant said...

Disagree, but Revenant loves being the contrarian.

I'm trying to help you understand how you guys botched up the 2012 Presidential race, ed. Take notes.

As for me being a "contrarian", my contempt for the Republican establishment's spendthrift ways isn't exactly new. :)

m11_9 said...

They lost by a couple percent, it was not a con job just because they didn't win.

This is buying into the BS that it was a mandate/landslide.

It was a close election whether everyone wants to believe it or not.

jr565 said...

More proposals to limit oil shale production on federal land.
http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/267095-interior-proposes-shielding-federal-lands-in-west-from-drilling

I bet, Ed and Bender, that we wouldn't have gotten this from a Romney campaign.
Ohio, Pennsylvania, Colorado, all energy states. And you're electing a president who says he will NECESSARILY bankrupt the coal industry. Who's energy secretary said gas prices needed to be in line with Europe. Namely 8 dollars a pop. An adminstration that wasted billiions of dollars propping up alternative energy companies that all went bankrupt (thus not providing the energy we are supposed to be replacing our carbon based fuels with).

jr565 said...

shiloh wrote:
Did I mention Willard was a train wreck who inspired no one? He had to run 95% negative ads to beat fellow train wrecks Santo/Newt/Perry/Cain/Paul etc. Too funny!

So is it your argument that Obama didn't run negative ads against Hillary and his competitors when he was running the first time?

shiloh said...

So far Willard has 47.9%. hmm, 47% lol

Interesting Dubya "won" er was appointed by the SC in 2000 w/47.9%.

Hey, Willard just picked a bad year to run. :-P

edutcher said...

shiloh said...

One reason for Obama's lower vote total is Hurricane Sandy as NY/NJ had over 2 million fewer votes than 2008. And several other states along the east coast as well.

Did I mention Willard was a train wreck who inspired no one?


Train wreck????

Zero's FEMA op has people still without food or power a week later in one of the most sophisticated urban areas in the world.

4 men are still dead in Benghazi and a clumsier cover-up than Watergate is making the Keystone Kops look like the SAS.

And, of course, the market tanked 500 points in 2 days after the election. in anticipation of Zero's nonfeasance and incompetence in dealing with the fiscal cliff and Taxmageddon.

There's also the not inconsequential round of layoffs in anticipation of ObamaTax in a year.

If Axelrod and Company hadn't obliterated 8 million votes, Barry would be on his way to Leavenworth right now.

So, it's time to ask the little weasel, since he's come sliming back, where were you hiding out 10/5 - 11/5 when the Romster was winning?

Selling sex for gas on Staten Island on Craigslist?

And getting no takers?

His self-esteem must be pretty small (among other things) to have to live through a phony Messiah.

jr565 said...

Ritmo wrote:
aybe just admit that as long as you can no longer rely on pandering preponderantly to a privileged establishment, you might actually have to come up with some sensible ideas?

usually those ideas are found in things like budgets. Last I heard dems haven't submitted ANY. So it's one thing to say that repubs should come up with sensible ideas. How about dems propose ANY? On paper that is.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

wow, jr. so feverishly and copiously you write. you're like a less coherent version of me. (but a more ideologically consistent version of romney).

nyuk nyuk nyuk.

shiloh said...

"negative ads against Hillary"

Not 95%. Hillary ran a terrible campaign as she thought it would be over by Super Tuesday. Oops! And she was out of $$$ by Super Tuesday.

Mark J. Penn, Hillary's pollster received (6 million) ?!? For what, nobody knows. In many ways Hillary was a train wreck as well.

Willard was a terrible campaigner and won the primary by default as he was anointed by the Rep hierarchy much like McCain in 2008.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

oh jr. you are so astute and clever with your discovery of things like "budgets". mebbe next time you will dazzle me with your knowledge of how to quantify stimulative effects, your definition of regulatory capture, your understanding of financial stress tests and many, many other things.

On the other hand, maybe you will not.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

As for me being a "contrarian", my contempt for the Republican establishment's spendthrift ways isn't exactly new. :)

Add "uninfluential" to the ways in which you are unlike Republicans. But they are apparently doing their damnedest to make sure you are not alone!

AReasonableMan said...

Revenant said...
Obama was and is a terrible President. Probably the worst since Hoover.


You seem to be forgetting Bush.

Bush of the biggest financial meltdown since the Great Depression. Bush of the spiraling deficit during a period of high revenues. Bush of the unfunded, unnecessary and ultimately self-defeating crusades.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Guess why Obama got reelected? Because the electorate has a better and much clearer memory than you.

ed said...

@pm317

"I agree. But these concern trolls are saying that it was all about Romney's ORCA."

Dare I point out that ORCA was the point of the original post? And that orienting the discussion around ORCA and the consultants is trying to remain on-topic?

I dare! I dare!

But no it wasn't only about ORCA. Romney got his ass handed to him, along with Establishment Republicans, because in the most important competition on Nov 6th 2012 the GOP showed up unable to play the game or even possibly field a team. Remember that I-demand-competence thingy? Yeah that's a bit important.

I could just rail against the Liberals for being Liberals, but that's an everyday thing. Right now the issue at hand is why did Romney get his ass handed to him by a guy who can only create jobs at the average cost of $4,000,000+ per job?

Now if you got all the answers then step on up to the plate and start swinging for the fences. So far I haven't seen it so I'm rather waiting. Don't keep me in suspense here.

edutcher said...

shiloh said...

Willard was a terrible campaigner and won the primary by default as he was anointed by the Rep hierarchy much like McCain in 2008.

That's the propaganda, but he had to fight hard for the nomination and people's respect. He became a very good candidate.

He could even make remarks without a teleprompter or an earpiece.

Too bad the little weasel's Messiah has never been able to do the same.

And, while we're on the subject of candidates, a few descriptive comments about the real train wreck's malfeasance in NY and NJ off Insta:

A major disaster occurs on the outskirts of one of the most advanced civilizations on earth, and 10 days later there are victims walking 6 miles to find food?

Yep. In Coney Island. “Down on Surf Avenue, businesses are shuttered, leaving local residents unable to get basic necessities like food, medicine, or even do laundry. Once the sun goes down, residents say it’s too dangerous to venture out anyway.”

Plus: “A lot of people are desperate. They don’t know where they are getting their next meal.”

Doctors Without Borders Tend To NY Storm Victims. Just like it was some third-world country. President Bush sent Americans to the third world. Under President Obama, the third world comes to you!


And we still haven't got an answer to our big question, where were you hiding out 10/5 - 11/5 when the Romster was winning?

Candy Crowley's electrolysis?

Or hairdresser?

(bet he's just adorable in heels)

AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said...
where were you hiding out 10/5 - 11/5 when the Romster was winning?


Romney was never 'winning'. That was just noise from the right-wing media-industrial complex. It is sad that you bought into it.

You would have gotten more accurate polling information from the New York Times or incredibly, Daily Kos.

ed said...

@ jr565

"No actually, Romney did not look JUST like Obama. That is farcical. You just accepted an even big pile of steaming shit because you found Romney to be stinky. Enjoy the smell."

Hint: read what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote. Read it!

I swear to God. If I got $1 for every damn person who can't be arsed to actually read what I write I'd be set for stripper tips.

AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said...
(Romney) ... had to fight hard for the nomination and people's respect. He became a very good candidate.


I agree that he was a good candidate in the sense that he put the best possible face on the stinking pile of shit that constitutes the Republican Party's policies. No one could sell that pile of crap. Until they jettison their delusional social and economic policies they are going nowhere.

pm317 said...

ed said...
-------------
As jr565 has valiantly been educating you guys, all you needed to do was vote Obama out regardless of who the opponent was. I used say in 2008, a dog with a Democrat label would have won (and a dog eater did). And in this election all you needed to vote was ABO. Romney was not a bad alternative. He was serious and interested in problem solving and would have got the fiscal house in order. That is all we needed for this time around -- get the fucking GDP up. You are angry he didn't get into the gutter with Obama. I am glad he didn't. All you guys needed to do was vote ABO. You guys failed yourselves, nobody else. I will be fine if the economy sucks to hog heaven. But there are people hurting. You on the opposition team let your team down. Now, don't come back and tell me, that somehow Romney made you do it or he deserves what he got. Shame on you and your ilk.

AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said...
And, while we're on the subject of candidates, a few descriptive comments about the real train wreck's malfeasance in NY and NJ off Insta:


Instapundit is a hack who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. The most recent evidence being all the nonsense he wrote in the lead up to Tuesday's election.

The main man-made problems in NY and NJ have been caused by the incompetence of private industry, in particular the power companies, who's performance has been disgraceful.

phx said...

Sources also said that arrogance played a big role, saying that the Romney campaign was a hostile battlefield of egos in which these consultants viewed any opposition to their world view as coming from an enemy.

from the article

phx said...

I wonder where they get that?

shiloh said...

Willard's campaign was run inside a bubble. Much like many of Althouse flock are still inhabiting.

Indeed, even after Willard got his butt kicked many cons are still delusionally self-righteous!

And so it goes ...

edutcher said...

AnUnreasonableTroll said...

And, while we're on the subject of candidates, a few descriptive comments about the real train wreck's malfeasance in NY and NJ off Insta:

Instapundit is a hack who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. The most recent evidence being all the nonsense he wrote in the lead up to Tuesday's election.


No denial, I notice, only protest.

Surrender accepted.

shiloh said...

Willard's campaign was run inside a bubble. Much like many of Althouse flock are still inhabiting.

The only bubble is the little weasel's.

He thinks cheating is the same as winning.

But we still need to know, where were you hiding out 10/5 - 11/5 when the Romster was winning?

You know, when your boy couldn't even utter a coherent sentence.

When he was digging himself deeper and deeper.

I know, the little weasel was the one feeding canned answers to Choomie's earpiece during the debates.

And he couldn't even get those right.

Wassamatta, Messiah still too deep in withdrawl?

Tell us all about the SCOAMF.

And he is. and you get to defend this miserable mess for the next 4 years.

phx said...

He thinks cheating is the same as winning.

You think winning is cheating. That's not uncommon in people without a sense of integrity.

phx said...

But we still need to know, where were you hiding out 10/5 - 11/5 when the Romster was winning?

I think you were already told - Romney was never winning. Your numbers were cooked.

AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said...
No denial, I notice, only protest.


You are clearly as incapable of reading as you are of comprehending. The man-made problems in NY-NJ are almost entirely due to the incompetence of the power and gas companies. There is no suggestion that the state and federal governments have done anything less than an excellent job. You could argue that the failure to adequately zone and block development in low lying areas is a governmental failure but this is a failure at the city and town level, which has had a predominance of Republican leadership in cozy alliance with property developers. I somehow doubt that you are arguing for more stringent controls on property development.

phx said...

You think winning is cheating. That's not uncommon in people without a sense of integrity.

Losers without a sense of integrity that is.

ed said...

@ pm317

" You on the opposition team let your team down. Now, don't come back and tell me, that somehow Romney made you do it or he deserves what he got. Shame on you and your ilk. "

Yet another retarded jackass who can't be arsed to read what I wrote.

tl;dr: I voted for Romney.

twit

edutcher said...

AnUnreasonableTroll said...

No denial, I notice, only protest.

You are clearly as incapable of reading as you are of comprehending. The man-made problems in NY-NJ are almost entirely due to the incompetence of the power and gas companies. There is no suggestion that the state and federal governments have done anything less than an excellent job


Except that people are cold, afraid, and hungry and Barry and Andy aren't doing a thing to fix it.

So Zer should bring in the military and fix it. But he can't be bothered, 'cause that would make him look bad.

phx said...

But we still need to know, where were you hiding out 10/5 - 11/5 when the Romster was winning?

I think you were already told - Romney was never winning. Your numbers were cooked.


I was told? We just accept what Herr Doktor Goebbels tells us without question?

Too bad those numbers when the Romster was winning made sense.

Yours don't.

It scares you to know it's not working.

And now Little Zero's lies are coming apart at the seams. And his second term hasn't even begun.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. It's all going to come crashing down.

edutcher said...

PS The "Don't blame me, I voted Romney/Ryan" bumper stickers are already selling off the shelves.

edutcher said...

PPS I see they had to bring in the trolls from this morning to do the graveyard shift.

FUD not working?

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Peter Hoh said...

edutcher: And, remember, every state Romney took had a voter ID law.


My neighbor, a conservative blogger and weekend radio host, addressed this on his show today. Chicken and egg, he called it. The only states that have a voter ID law in place are states that are dominated by Republicans. It should come as no surprise that these states went to Romney.

For those of you who don't trust RedState, here's a report from a Romney volunteer posted on Ace of Spades.

AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said...
Too bad those numbers when the Romster was winning made sense.

Yours don't.


It is one thing to be delusional before the election. It's sad but not entirely unreasonable, you at least had plenty of company with Karl Rove, Rush, Hannity and Instapundit. To be so delusional after the election results have been in for a week hints at deeper problems.

leslyn said...

edutcher said,

Except that people are cold, afraid, and hungry and Barry and Andy aren't doing a thing to fix it. So Zer should bring in the military and fix it. But he can't be bothered, 'cause that would make him look bad.

I've been enjoying watching edutcher spit all over himself, but I couldn't let that one go by.

Marines and sailors of the 26th Marine Expedition Unit stepped onto the shore at Breezy Point NY Nov 9th, joining troops from other units. They are partnering with FEMA, the Army Corps of Engineers, and the National Guard.

I can probably get the picture of them coming off the landing craft for you, if you like. They came by sea.

I've been reporting on similar troop actions to my unit for several days now. The DOD puts out a daily update.

Kinda a letdown, huh.

AReasonableMan said...

Peter Hoh said...
For those of you who don't trust RedState,


I have been impressed by RedState's response to the election loss. A significant fraction of the commenters have taken a pragmatic approach not dissimilar to Kos.

Most interestingly there was a long discussion of the declining allure of tax cuts, which were arguably the only clearly enunciated policy in Romney's just finished campaign. Incredibly, there was a broad agreement that the Laffer curve was hocus-pocus, especially given the historically low rates currently in place. They clearly grasped that, at best, there were declining rewards as tax rates fell over time. I have yet to see one right wing commenter on this board acknowledge that the problem is not Romney or McCain but the policies these suckers had to go out and try and sell. Essentially they were on political suicide missions. The RedState people seem to be younger, more intellectually flexible and clearly much more interested in winning elections rather than simply restating Reagan era verities in a louder voice.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Leslyn, wow that is great to hear! It was the Marines birthday, as I'm sure you know. My daughter went to her 1st Marine Ball.... In Afghanistan! I asked her what she wore, hahaha, her ball gown was a clean uniform.

leslyn said...

I'm sure she had cake! You can't have a USMC Birthday w/o cake. Somehow they've managed to scrape a cake together and read the Commandant's birthday message in all places and climes--from the jungles on Guadalcanal to Chosin Reservoir.

237!

Peter Hoh said...

edutcher: BTW, this nonsense of having the conventions around Labor day is for the birds.

Somebody enlighten me, that only started with Zero, true or not?

Before that, it always seemed one side had their in July, the other in August.


It took me all of six seconds to find out that the 2004 Republican convention took place from August 30 to September 2.

Ctmom4 said...

"You are clearly as incapable of reading as you are of comprehending. The man-made problems in NY-NJ are almost entirely due to the incompetence of the power and gas companies. There is no suggestion that the state and federal governments have done anything less than an excellent job. You could argue that the failure to adequately zone and block development in low lying areas is a governmental failure but this is a failure at the city and town level, which has had a predominance of Republican leadership in cozy alliance with property developers. I somehow doubt that you are arguing for more stringent controls on property development."

Really, you can't be serious. FEMA ran out of water. They closed their stations on Tuesday because of the storm. They aren't feeding people. They put people in tents in below freezing weather. People have been begging for FEMA trailers - remember those? No FEMA trailers.

Palladian said...

Love your uninhibited misogyny. Is the source of that latent vagina envy? Don't be depressed, you still have the workout photos of Paul Ryan to cherish.

Ah, ignorance of satire and anti-gay attack, all rolled into one!

There's that sophisticated humor and tolerance that we've come to expect from Democrats!

Ctmom4 said...

@ Leslyn - Took them awhile. Meanwhile, FEMA is pretty much useless, as usual. No water. Running away from the nor'easter. People freezing in tents.

AReasonableMan said...

Ctmom4 said...
Really, you can't be serious. FEMA ran out of water. They closed their stations on Tuesday because of the storm. They aren't feeding people. They put people in tents in below freezing weather. People have been begging for FEMA trailers - remember those? No FEMA trailers.


The primary problem is the loss of power. Almost all the other problems flow from this. There has been some loss of housing but the majority of people affected by the storm are affected because they lost power. Power was lost and has not been restored because of the incompetence of the power companies, private enterprises failing to do their job. We now have the ridiculous situation where a large number of people have or are considering buying generators because they no longer trust the power companies to do their job. It is an incredible waste of resources made necessary by commercial incompetence.

Peter Hoh said...

pm317: Voters didn't need this s/w. They didn't even know it existed. They just needed to go to a polling place and vote and they did that for other republican presidents and other candidates for ages. Why didn't they do that?

Every campaign makes some effort to get out the vote. Romney's team scrapped the models that had been used in the past for their high tech solution.

Might have hurt to have been cheerleading about how Romney was going to win in a landslide. Did that let some Romney voters feel that it wasn't that urgent for them to get out to the polls?

Ctmom4 said...

@ A reasonable man - Except that LIPA is not a private company -" LIPA, a non-profit municipal electric utility, owns the retail electric system on Long Island and provides electric service to over 1.1 million customers in Nassau and Suffolk counties, and the Rockaway Peninsula in Queens. LIPA does not own any electric generation ". LIPA ran out of poles. And, the point is, that FEMA is incompetent - as usual.

Revenant said...

You seem to be forgetting Bush.

I don't think Bush was worse than Hoover, and Obama is certainly worse than Bush. So I don't think I left anything out. :)

Chip Ahoy said...

OT but I don't care.

Sorry. I mean not sorry. But now I'm sorry about not being sorry. Now I snapped back to not caring.

I was thinking about people I know who are so freaking creative it drops off their fingertips. They couldn't be not creative if they tried.

And I thought of a guy like that, but I'm not sure he makes a good example. Because he needs help. Henry Hook. A well known crossword puzzle constructor. Boston Globe. I thought he wrote a weekly puzzle for San Francisco but I didn't notice that online. Respected. Tremendous reputation. Feared. Devious. Evil. Breaks crossword rules. His mind that is vast. He sits down to construct a puzzle, or maybe even does it standing. Starts at the begging and writes it straight through as if copying something already completed and turns it in. He did that once a week, at the time I knew of him, and that was his job. A serf. Who worked 5 minutes a week. And it is the only thing he can do.

A broken man. His wife died. Repulsive personality. She was the only person who could tolerate him. Banned from competition because he's too brilliant. He'd take everything. An unlikely host. Banned for being too rude.

He showed up one day in a forum and was his usual broken self. Another crossword constructor lady said to everyone there, "Well I for one am not going to buy another puzzle if Mr. Hook continues to behave like this." That was all. And he straightened right up.

Good serf maintenance. Lady on genius style.

His puzzles are remarkable. Apparently he knows every word on every subject. His themes are involved. He weaves a remarkably high number of very devious theme entries by breaking a few rules to expand the fun he's having with whatever subject he's abusing. It's like he gets an idea and develops it and keeps getting ideas that could work but don't so in order to include them he'll transgress sacrosanct rules. And you can actually hear him laughing when you're seeing what he's done.

He's impossible to be around. Enie can stand him. Ellen in the photos. They've become friends. There's a game they do in New York that's a hunt by clue thing and the clues are impossible. The trail stumps top solvers and has them running all over NY. With Henry at her side, Enie described how her team flew through the challenge to victory. Henry would allow the team members of top solvers to grind their brains out trying to grasp the meaning of the clue, then Henry just gives them the answer. Step after step after step.

The pictures are old. The people changed. It's the first picture showing but on the page it's on the photo is near the bottom, looks like a mong in a white t-shirt.

Can you imagine that guy going, hmmmm voooomp crossword puzzle. Week's salary.

He caught the attention of NYT puzzle when still a boy. Maleska published what he considered an difficult challenge with a final answer that wrapped around the outside edges, so not standard grid. The solution read something like:

YOU JUST FINISHED THE MOST DIFFICULT PUZZLE IN THE WORLD.

At 14 yrs old Henry jotted off a puzzle in the same style and sent it to him, with a solution that read

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOUR PUZZLE IS SO HARD?




Chip Ahoy said...

Hook

Ctmom4 said...

Then there is this :" In its first mission in the United States, Médecins Sans Frontières/Doctors Without Borders is helping victims of superstorm Sandy which devastated much of the New York metropolitan area. In a makeshift clinic in a laundry room in Far Rockaway, a hard-hit section of Queens, doctors, nurses and medical students assess patients and help them get much needed medication." We are officially a third world country.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Up to the day when the thing might be; abortion.

Abortion is the mark, dummy.

Laugh out loud.

Abortion.

leslyn said...

Ct4mom said

"@ Leslyn -Took them awhile."

No, actually they've been there by helicopter since Nov. 3. The National Guard arrived before that.And FEMA is moving in trailers. It IS a natural disaster. They don't materialize out of thin air.

But since you criticize: Where's your outrage at all those people who didn't evacuate, or at least stock up? Where's the self-sufficiency in that? Why should we taxpayers have to pay for them to be dependent on the government?

It's immoral for FEMA to exist--remember?

It astounds me how people expect to have it both ways. I'd think the cognitive dissonance would be ringing so loud that ears would pop.

jr565 said...

Machine wrote:
Maybe...but they each had one day to show us....and show us they did...

actually Obama had four years to show us, and show us he did not... Is his record or part of the story as to whether he's a good manager?

Bender said...

I am still waiting to hear a reason to vote for him beyond "he's not Obama."

In this election, that was frankly enough.


Winner of the dumb-ass comment of the night.

Obviously it wasn't enough since he lost.

Look -- it takes a special kind of loser incompetence for one to lose to Jimmy Carter the Second.

And just as probably a majority of the Republican vote in 2008 was a vote for Palin, not McCain, if we were to subtract all of the social conservative and religious right votes from Romney (who supposedly did not turn out for him), he probably would have ended up with about 35 percent of the vote, which is about where he routinely topped out at in the primaries.

jr565 said...

Ed, actually you're right about that and I apologize. I saw your initial post and then one from Bender and thought I was responding to Benders post. Sorry.

jr565 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jr565 said...

So who did you vote for Bender? And who do you propose as a better choice?

Bender said...

You might ask yourself why anyone would vote for Obama, why an intelligent person who can see the destruction around us and can connect the dots would nevertheless vote for Obama?

It doesn't seem to make sense, until one understands that people respect the strong and despise the weak. And say what you will about Obama's far left idelogical thuggery, but he is strong and unapologetic in his thuggery and contempt for others. Meanwhile, Mild Mitt is a worm, he's weak, he could never get very excited about anything, even in defending himself against attacks, often responding with saying he was "disappointed" or something not much stronger than to complain that what the Dems said wasn't very nice.

The long history of mankind shows that people respect and will even follow a strong despot, but they abhor and have contempt for wimpy squishes, and Romney was rightly pegged as a squish a long time ago.

Bender said...

I sucked it up and took it in the ass moron, even after vowing I would not, because I live in Virginia and it looked as if it would count. So quit your pissy whining and bitching about me, about how I did not do my part, and direct the blame where it belongs, with the crappy candidate. It's not Bender's fault that Romney was a complete sack of shit as a candidate -- Bender repeatedly warning people that Romney was a complete sack of shit as a candidate is not what made him so, Romney did that to himself.

jr565 said...

Leslyn wrote:

Ct4mom said

"@ Leslyn -Took them awhile."

No, actually they've been there by helicopter since Nov. 3. The National Guard arrived before that.And FEMA is moving in trailers. It IS a natural disaster. They don't materialize out of thin air.

But since you criticize: Where's your outrage at all those people who didn't evacuate, or at least stock up? Where's the self-sufficiency in that? Why should we taxpayers have to pay for them to be dependent on the government?

It's immoral for FEMA to exist--remember?

It astounds me how people expect to have it both ways. I'd think the cognitive dissonance would be ringing so loud that ears would pop.

wow you sou d so reasonable. You must have had some harsh words for dems during the whole Katrina thing, not to mention all those New Orleans residents who never bothered leaving.
all I can say is, heckuva Job Obama.

jr565 said...

O Ritmo wrote:
oh jr. you are so astute and clever with your discovery of things like "budgets". mebbe next time you will dazzle me with your knowledge of how to quantify stimulative effects, your definition of regulatory capture, your understanding of financial stress tests and many, many other things.

On the other hand, maybe you will not.

how is any of that even relevant. Dems haven't submitted a budget in three years. If you don't have an answer for that, then you really have nothing left to offer. But it's nice of you to try making yourself look smart while evading the point entirely. Get back to us when you get over yourself a bit. Or rather, respond to questions directly and on point.

leslyn said...

FYI, here's part of the report from the DOD, just for Nov. 5, for example. It's kind of long. I don't expect you to like it, but you could at least respect it.

Here’s today’s update on DOD’s response to Hurricane Sandy as of 9 a.m. EDT:

Fuel: --Defense Logistics Agency is contracted for fuel support during a presidentially declared disaster to meet local civilian and government requirements after the disaster. The contract is for a complete refueling capability --trucks, retail distribution and fuel. --

--DLA is purchasing 12 million gallons of gasoline and 12 million gallons of diesel fuel. The agency has 260 fuel trucks on contract for fuel distribution.
--First responder fueling locations in New York have changed from armories to five commercial gas stations. New Jersey first responder fueling facilities are still at five National Guard armories.

--DLA is working with the National Guard Bureau to use more than 50 refueling trucks for first responder fueling. More than 430,000 gallons of fuel have been delivered in four days.

Food, Health, and Comfort Items:

--More than two million meals have been delivered to FEMA facilities in West Virginia, New York and New Jersey. Another five million are in production. 500,000 meals are in transit to Lakehurst, N.J., and 500,000 meals are en route to Floyd Bennett Field, NY.

--DLA delivered 1,000 cots and 1,000 blankets to Fort Hamilton, N.Y., and 3,000 cots to Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J., for National Guard members. DLA also delivered 140,000 blankets to Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst.

Pumps and Generators: --107 pumps, rated at 1,500 gallons per minute and up, were delivered Nov. 3 to Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst..

--Five submersible pumps were moved to Craven Point, N.J., in support of Navy salvage.

--51 500-2000 kilowatt generators have arrived or are in transit to Lakehurst, N.J.

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers: The Corps of Engineers has more than 600 personnel supporting Hurricane Sandy response operations. Priority missions include water removal, temporary emergency power, restoration of ports and debris cleanup.

--The Corps of Engineers is working with New York City officials to increase passenger capacity at Hoboken Terminal, N.J. The corps is moving two large generators to the site to support operations, with both expected to arrive today.

--Engineers are currently pumping at the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, the World Trade Center complex, the Montague Tunnel, the Passaic Valley Waste Water Treatment Plant, the Jersey City PATH Train Tunnel, the 14th Street Tunnel and the Rockaway Waste Water Treatment Plant.

--The Corps of Engineers has 176 additional pumps with varying capacities staged or available via contractor as needed.

--The Corps of Engineers has installed 67 generators with another 30 installations in progress. Another 97 installations are planned over the next 24 hours.

--The Corps of Engineers is focused on providing support at 26 sites in Hoboken, including providing power to 12 high-rise apartments. The corps has one generator on site, one en route and one being prepared for transport. Officials said the effort will continue until commercial power has been restored.

The National Guard: --The National Guard continues significant response and recovery efforts throughout the region affected by Sandy, where 7,666 National Guard personnel are assisting in response and recovery efforts.....


It goes on to talk about the National Board's efforts in five states. For example:

--The New York National Guard is supporting power restoration, traffic control, debris removal, wellness checks and food and water distribution throughout New York City. The New York National Guard is the designated water and petroleum distribution agent for all supported state agencies. There are five military police companies conducting presence patrols, traffic control points and augmentation of local law enforcement agencies.

leslyn said...

@jr565:

Katrina was a clusterfuck.

I'm still angry at EVERYONE who was in charge.

jr565 said...

Bender wrote:

I sucked it up and took it in the ass moron, even after vowing I would not, because I live in Virginia and it looked as if it would count. So quit your pissy whining and bitching about me, about how I did not do my part, and direct the blame where it belongs, with the crappy candidate. It's not Bender's fault that Romney was a complete sack of shit as a candidate -- Bender repeatedly warning people that Romney was a complete sack of shit as a candidate is not what made him so, Romney did that to himself.

Obama ran without a record. He was a completely shit candidate. Ad then when he ran on his record it was probably the worst since Hoover. It didn't stop dems from sucking it up and voting for the loser. He maintained about 90% loyalty rate.
Romney may not have won, but he got almost half the votes, just not enough in key areas to win. We're the results lackluster, sure. But who else running this time around could have done better. Give us some names.

We're talking about an incumbent president and the first black president. And an electorate on one side that doesn't care about the record of their candidate. And another side that has a huge chunk sniping at their candidate at every turn.

leslyn said...

Jr565 said,

But who else running this time around could have done better. Give us some names.

That's easy. Jon Huntsman.

Unless you favor Bachmann. Then the election truly would have been an Obama landslide.

jr565 said...

Leslyn wrote:

@jr565:

Katrina was a clusterfuck.

I'm still angry at EVERYONE who was in charge.

except if you're going to make this point:
No, actually they've been there by helicopter since Nov. 3. The National Guard arrived before that.And FEMA is moving in trailers. It IS a natural disaster. They don't materialize out of thin air.
Then why would the same rationale not apply to Katrina which dealt with an entire flooded city. In addition to dealing with all the usual issues they had to also rescue people from their rooftops and flooded houses and could only get to those houses by boat or helicopter. And they were running those rescue operations the day after the storm hit. Oh, and they evacuated more than one hundred thousand to nearby states in ten days.
It was a cluster duck but what kind of response did you expect in the worst natural disaster in modern times with a city that was completely flooded. FEMA can't get its act together dealing with small pockets of Staten Island. Yet you expect some perfect response during Katrina when a city was flooded, they lost all power and communication, had to send the national guard in from multiple states, the local response was completely overwhelmed etc. you're right, things don't materialize out of thin air. And yet dems treated the Bush response to Katrina as if they should.
I have no problem recognizing that after a hurricane Te situation will be FUBAR for many people who don't evacuate. And you're pretty much on your own, FEMA will not get there any time soon and it will look like the response is in slow motion. But Bush's Katrina response was in act the largest response, with the most money spent, and most resources supplied to any modern natural disaster. And yet dems had no problem saying that because it wasn't solved in a week that somehow BUsh didn't care for black people.
Barack himself made that same argument, when still a senator.
Now though, you are acknowledging the point, when it comes to Obama's storm that its a natural disaster, so what do we expect? What did you and other dems expect with Katrina? And why do you have separate standards? If anything the response from FEMA and the other agencies involved would be FAR worse in Katrina, simply because the damage from the storm was so much worse.

In the case of Obama and this storm, it seems like he's not really taking much of a role. He made a token appearance, but seems to have forgotten all bout it. If bush was out golfing two weeks after Katrina, what do you think dems would say?

jr565 said...

That's easy. Jon Huntsman.

Jon Huntsman could not even win against Romney or Santorum, or Gingrich or even Herman Cain. Huntsman is the conservative that the democrats would love republicans to run. But that would be like me saying Dennis Kucinich should have been the nominee instead of Obama.

leslyn said...

Y'all were fools to let Huntsman go just because he wasn't sexy. All the rest were clowns, backed by clowns.

jr565 said...

Actually, maybe the problem is with tea party voters and not evangelicals.
11% or those who strongly identify with the Tea Party actually voted for Obama!


http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2012/11/10/how-many-tea-party-supporters-voted-for-obama/

That's like Inga voting for the most pro life candidate on the ballot despite him saying he'll pass laws where women are executed for having abortions

leslyn said...

The Repubs this election were a clown show. Disappointing, but also entertaining.

jr565 said...

Leslyn wrote:

Y'all were fools to let Huntsman go just because he wasn't sexy. All the rest were clowns, backed by clowns.

he had some SERIOUS drawbacks. First, he was also a Mormon. Which would rule out the crack emcee's of the world. THen he was a moderate republican, the same kind of squish as Romney only without the record. Then he had the history behind him of working into Obama administration. Then he had the attitude or came across like he didn't particularly like his constituents who he was dismissive of. And finally he was as boring as a piece of wood and never had much of a base t all.
Oh and finally, he had a rich daddy, so one could argue he was out of touch with the common man, a charge that dems would be sure to make. Other than Ron Paul, he was probably the least likely to be elected.

leslyn said...

So Huntsman was just like Romney except that he could play with others. Yup, that's a big drawback.

edutcher said...

AnUnreasonableTroll said...

Too bad those numbers when the Romster was winning made sense.

Yours don't.


It is one thing to be delusional before the election. It's sad but not entirely unreasonable, you at least had plenty of company with Karl Rove, Rush, Hannity and Instapundit. To be so delusional after the election results have been in for a week hints at deeper problems.


No delusion, just those 8 million white guys that have gone unaccounted.

Troll really is a useless idiot.

leslyn said...

Except that people are cold, afraid, and hungry and Barry and Andy aren't doing a thing to fix it. So Zer should bring in the military and fix it. But he can't be bothered, 'cause that would make him look bad.

I've been enjoying watching edutcher spit all over himself, but I couldn't let that one go by.

Marines and sailors of the 26th Marine Expedition Unit stepped onto the shore at Breezy Point NY Nov 9th, joining troops from other units. They are partnering with FEMA, the Army Corps of Engineers, and the National Guard.


The pics of the Marines have been all over the Internet, but the Corps of Engineers has a largely civil component, which is there.

One Marine BLT, which is what an MEU is won't stretch very far. You'd need several brigades and scads of support people.

I've been reporting on similar troop actions to my unit for several days now.

Really?

Funny, first time leslyn mentioned it.

Wotta surprise.

AprilApple said...

Leslyn enjoys the fact that our economy is sputtering into the shit can. She enjoys misery. She enjoys malfeasance and corruption.(D) She enjoys Obama's debt.

echo said...

Solution: Let the Dems run up the tax rates, then run on tax cuts next time.

Too easy.

echo said...

Solution: Let the Dems run up the tax rates, then run on tax cuts next time.

Too easy.

leslyn said...

echo, (do you really have to post twice?) you are prescient. That's what will happen in 2013 when the Bush tax cuts expire.

edutcher said...

It's Blogger, sweetcheeks.

The comment doesn't always publish on the first try.

leslyn said...

edutcher, perhaps you didn't see my excerpt from the daily DOD reports. Here's one on the continuing the size of the problem, where you can access them yourself.

...my comment to echo was a play on words.

jr565 said...

Leslyn wrote:

So Huntsman was just like Romney except that he could play with others. Yup, that's a big drawback.

no, he had all of his drawbacks but none of the positives. This is reflected in his poll numbers.there was never a time at any point in the process where he was leading in the polls amongst other republicans.
As such, what makes you think,he could rally the troops as it were to take on the president. It wold be a rout that would make Dukakis feel,vindicated.

shiloh said...

Damn, Althouse 24/7 con whining has already reached critical mass. Shocking! :-P

ok, ok, it probably reached critical mass (4) years ago ...

Althouse, time for a teabagger group hug!

EDH said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
EDH said...

Quickly, back to ORCA...

My admission: I’ve never understood GOTV, largely because I’d never done it. Honestly, never had any inclination. So I’m not talking as an old hand at the game and have no baseline to compare.

That said, observations from my limited vantage:

- ORCA as was not a GOTV strategy. ORCA should have been an information system attached to a GOTV strategy. Not sure there was a larger swing-state GOTV strategy that ORCA was intended to support or complement.

- ORCA seemed overly reactive and back-loaded from the start. I would think an effective GOTV strategy would be built over time and be implemented at the roots, with real time info-gathering and micro-targeting on election day being added as icing on the cake.

- ORCA seemed very centralized. It looked like the training and effort at the roots was built to serve the central command on election day. I do not know the degree to which organizing those field people crowded-out more productive GOTV efforts in the field.

- Command center operations could have been done with fewer people, but maybe they expected more system issues.

- The ORCA info system worked, kinda. Data certainly came in, despite some overloads. I read Romney’s Digital Director said around 15 million pieces of data came in, but they had predicted over 70 million.

In sum, a nice luxury for various campaign decision-makers, but what do you do with this data on election day and how does it help you win?

I think there are two, not necessarily mutually exclusive, views you can take.

- The campaign consultants did a disservice, and Romney and his campaign managers made bad strategic choices. In the absence of a true GOTV strategy, or in substitution for one, they sold a highly centralized system-strategy that emphasized high-end consulting rather than grass roots organizing that served their inclinations and interests rather than the campaign’s needs.

- ORCA was a rational but inevitably inadequate response to the historic GOTV advantage that Democrats, as the party of government, have on the ground where they tend to socialize in larger groups unabashedly based on where they derive their income. Speaking personally, I don’t like to socialize around politics, and I assume that’s true of a lot of conservative/libertarian types.

The Romney–McCain vote totals, however, suggest there was something intrinsically wrong with the 2012 Republican GOTV effort by historical standards.

ed said...

@ jr565

"Ed, actually you're right about that and I apologize. I saw your initial post and then one from Bender and thought I was responding to Benders post. Sorry."

And I apologize for being so easily bent out of shape over a minor issue.