"... as something shameful and incompatible with honor (in the case of Petraeus) or decency (as in the case of Clash)... [Kevin Clash] has not been convicted of a crime, but merely accused of one in a completely unsubstantiated, vague complaint."
Said lawprof Katherine Franke. Kevin Clash, the voice of Elmo, is accused, in a civil lawsuit seeking $5 million, of having "sexual activity" with a 15-year-old.
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119 comments:
Is this lawyer a human pretzel? Because she just found the most convoluted way to twist homosexual marriage in with pedophelia and adultery. Leftism is an ideology of the insane.
At precisely the moment people are finding out again about how giving in to your sex drive can negatively impact your career and the lives of innocent people some idiot finds a way to make it serve their own agenda.
Unexpected.
Katherine Franke, a professor of law and the director of the center for gender and sexuality law at Columbia University, said she worried that Mr. Clash was “the most recent victim of what we call in my world a ‘sex panic.’ ” She named a second recent example, David Petraeus, who admitted having an extramarital affair and resigned as the C.I.A. director earlier this month.
Victim, I don't think this word means what professor Franke thinks it means.
So, if you're for gay marriage you should also be for adultery, deceit, and pederasty. Got it.
Cheating on your spouse should be considered shameful. I'm not saying Petraeus should have been forced to resign, but it's bad to cheat.
Also, a 40-year-old having sex with a 15-year-old is shameful behavior that is criminal in many states.
Freedom also means the freedom to judge others and call out their bad behavior.
I have often suspected that at heart many people believe there are no sexual sins (and I mean sins, not crimes) at all.
One doesn't have to go all mega-Christian (lust in the heart equals the dirty deed itself) to realize that sex really is one of the chief means in which human beings exploit each other.
I would think listening to Bizet's "Carmen" alone would do the trick (so as to speak).
Dont get in a "sex panic" if some grown man tries to fuck your young son.
Dont get in a "sex panic" if some grown man tries to fuck your young son.
Wait. Hold up. Stop that witch hunt. Put away the pitchforks and torches. Somebody's delicate political agenda is in jeopardy.
Intersectionality. Where you arrive at an intersection with someone else's civil rights campaign, the grievance crossroads if you will, and are told to turn around and go back.
So, where's lawprof Katherine Franke's complaint about Jerry Sandusky pre-indictement, trial and conviction?
Kevin Clash apparently paid his first accuser $125,000 for saying that the sex happened after the accuser turned 18.
You do not see that kind of money for "a completely unsubstantiated, vague complaint."
So is she saying this isn't "legitimate rape" or something to that effect?
huh.
Happens to straight white guys all the time.
Welcome to the club, pal.
I guess you have to be a professor of sex culture or whatever to make the ludicrous claim that poor sexual decisionmaking doesn't have negative, hurtful consequences for yourself and others. The important thing is to keep being such a cool person that you're above all that bourgeois sex panic stuff.
"Accusations" that are "completely unsubstantiated" when the perp is a public television puppeteer. Now, if he was a Catholic priest ....
Katherine Franke, a professor of law and the director of the center for gender and sexuality law at Columbia University, said she worried that Mr. Clash was “the most recent victim of what we call in my world a ‘sex panic.’
in my world?
Does Captain Kirk have sex with green skinned Orion slave girls in your world, Prof. Franke?
Who the hell talks like that to the press in an interview? I don't think I want to know how people in gender & sexuality law speak, but I bet involves clicks, high-pitched squeaks, and whale song.
If he had not tried to buy the kid off, then maybe we would having a different conversation.
But the accusations came, he denied it, it comes out that he bought the kid off and then he quits.
The cover up always is worse than the actual crime.
We don't have a sex panic.
We have a problem separating accusation and guilt, and not just with sex issues.
We also have a hypocrisy panic, caused in part by people like Franke, who I would bet could not discern the difference between Bill Clinton and General Petraeus.
The main difference being that Clinton kept his job with the proud help of many feminists.
It's been all downhill since that in the sex panic room.
I thought marriage was more than just sex.
Her world is Columbia University, where a married tenured faculty member fornicated with his adult daughter. Adultery and incest are no big deal at this college on the hill above Harlem
"Sexuality" should be driven back into the closet. It's being poorly served out in the cozy academic world.
I thought "sex panic" was the disappointed feelings I experience when the booty calls back to cancel.
Closets are good, especially at a frat party.
Prof. Franke makes an argument in support of her views that is very similar to the one her opponents make against them.
As Erika noted, this professor is making the assumption that only those who are for gay marriage are for removing most limits on sex.
But when I make that assertion I'm called a bigot.
If this didn't involve an employee of a company that produces a popular, government supported, extremely profitable children's television show, this would not be news.
The culture war is fought on the battlefields of each other's icons. And the locales of these skirmishes can be completely weird. The left brought the battle to Sarah Palin's uterus. The right brings it to Sesame Street.
And the usual suspects blather.
Honestly, who gives a damn?
When did people have sex in closets? I've done wooded areas, open fields, backseats, rooftops, showers, and elevators, but never a closet. Do you hang your clothes up rather than toss them on the floor when screwing in a closet? It seems like the thing to do with the hangers right there. And what about the shoes? I mean I can't do it in the same closet with flip flops or crocks, and what if there is an old leisure suit in there - eeeww!
Closet, SW Missouri State, crowded frat Halloween party, she was a gymnast. Best road trip I ever had.
Franke also espouses Public Sex and (apparently seriously) enlists Anthony Weiner as an ally in this regard.
Really, what is in the water at Columbia?
She does claim the claim is unsubstantiated, but then what do we expect her to say? More than too much, as a rule.
Ya I know, but all female college athletes aren't gay.
As someone the disagrees with redefining public policy on marriage, I know the difference between a same-sex relationship based on mutual respect, love, and caring; and an adult completely manipulating/taking advantage an older troubled teenager (possibly homeless) eager to find approval from an older adult.
Not the same at all!
Look at a photo of professor Franke, your gaydar will red line and it won't be wrong.
A "sex panic" is pretty close to what re-elected Obama. Right wingers grabbing at your lady parts. No contraceptives and Roe v Wade reversed. All imaginary but that's what makes it a sex panic. Just like Elmo.
"sexuality is being driven back into the closet..."
Really, I thought these two cases were examples of sexuality being brought out in the open from the closet.
And rightfully so because both involve illegality and abuse of power.
She seems very stupid. She looks like the stereotype of a lesbian and writes like the stereotype of an affirmative action academic.
"what we call in my world a ‘sex panic.’ "
In my world sex panic is what we call the prospect of seeing Katherine Franke naked.
McTriumph. Whoa! No question about it.
Michael
Stereotypes many times are ground zero.
You can be sure that, if his old sex-partner weren't rich, he would be looking back on that old event with nostalgia.
It's great: charges of wife-beating are putting an end to marriage as we know it. Child support is putting an end to breeding. Charges of stranger child abuse is putting an end to the Roman Catholic church, the Boy Scouts and, sadly, camping.
Professor Franke seems to be quite the party animal.
"It’s time sex pushed
back and resisted a hygienic
sexual politics that aims to cleanse
homosexuality of its raunchier
elaborations, and demanded a
legitimate presence in quasipublic
spaces such as Twitter and
Facebook, along with the more
commonly understood public
space of the street, the bar, or the
bookstore."
bagoh,
"When did people have sex in closets?"
If the closet's a walk-in, don't come aknockin'.
Nambla called and said stop acting like a bunch of prudes.
I thought the accuser of the Elmo guy recanted. Did he un-recant? I confess I'm not following the story all too closely because, well, I have a life.
New accuser, Madison Man.
A Center for Gender and Sexuality Law. Oy.
I'm surprised those aren't more common, as there is certainly a crying need for them.
@Patrick, ah, Thanks. Not to imply that you have no life, of course :)
So, this Kevin Clash guy was sucking more than just the PBS tit?
I will admit, your honesty is painful.
The power of legalism of sexual morality is not being surrendered at all. It is alive and well in Obama land as the means to slander and destroy the opposition.
Weapons like that are too valuable to give up. All that is permissive about sexual morality is a case by case grant of favors to select friends and voter groups.
That is how humans are ruled by high priests: First everything we do is deemed to be illegal/immoral, and than exceptions are granted to favored friends of the Caesar/Pope.
The Reformation of the 1600s was the last attempt to resist that rule by declaring all men equal before the law, which is a rare and unpopular notion.
But really, my wife is at book club, and I've only got a short honeydew list, so I can wait until about half an hour before she gets home.
Problem: not exactly sure when she gets home!
McTriumph said...
So, this Kevin Clash guy was sucking more than just the PBS tit?
Hilarity would ensue if they gave an elmo doll to the accuser and said, "Show us on the doll where he touched you."
You know, with friends like this -- who suggest being OK with gay marriage means you need to be OK with adultery and pedophilia -- the proponents of gay marriage hardly need enemies.
If I were Barney Frank, I'd pay her to STFU.
So academics can say molesting children is merely expressing sexuality but Larry Summers is cast out for suggesting evidence supports the hypothesis that the greater standard deviation in math ability could partially explain their overrepresentation in extremely demanding postions.
Revealing.
Franke seems unable to comprehend that the scandal - such as it is - isn't about Petraeus having sex (the horror!) but about Petraeus betraying his marriage vows. Is such a thing even conceivable in Franke's moral world, which seems to be governed solely by whatever shiny object strikes her fancy at the moment?
It saddens me that such poverty of thought passes for higher education these days.
Here is what I think. It's not scientific or anything, though there are some scientific observations about fetishes that have formed my views.
Young males experience a massive onslaught of testosterone, that comes often at a young age. It's the unimaginably strong imperative to "Reproduce," and the imperative exceeds a lot of social boundaries. Women don't have a clue what it's about.
Just look to the animal kingdom. Reproductive rights to the death, infanticide by the victor, even accidental necrophilia by both otters and ducks. Now, try to take that massive natural force, like a Katrina, or even a Sandy, and that's what a male goes through. But, the state wants to control it.
The butterfly effect can make a difference. A shoe while one is masturbating can lead to a shoe fetish. A picture of a woman doing it with a Shetland pony can trigger a fancy, a fantasy, an obsession.
Women don't experience this. They are "Anything goes." That's why all women are bisexual, and can grab on to Petreaus as an Adonis.
What does this have to do with gays, and gay marriage? Well, I'll tell you later. Simply, it doesn't matter. There is no value to the state, and Religious nuts simply propagate the genes by trying to get the gays to reproduce.
There is no reason for the state to give a rats ass about gay marriage, with the possible exception of ugly or abused "Lesbians" that are raising kids. With values that are quite opposed to the ones that got us here.
Sorry Ann. I find conservatism in the our nature, not in our stupid cerebral cortex.
To those confused, this accusation is being made by a different person,Cecil Singleton now 24, claiming sexual relations with Clash when the accuser was 15.
The first accuser,Sheldon Stephens,recanted , claiming he was pressured and paid $125000 bucks, he is recanting the recant.
This is the dawning of the age of Elagabalus
The next question will be: "What is the age-of-consent for a sheep?".
Did he just say all women are bisexual?
Inga said...
Did he just say all women are bisexual?
If a guy is lucky they are.
Dante said,
"Women don't experience this. They are "Anything goes." That's why all women are bisexual, and can grab on to Petreaus as an Adonis."
Why yes he did.
Can I watch?
"Really? How can you be sure of that? Were you such a youthful participant"
Actually, gays write about these things, and have for a long time. It seems to be common to recall the first experience fondly. More fondly than women remember their first (hetero) experience, probably.
Now if you were a liberal man with dark hair and blue eyes, mebbe.
If you're doin it right, you should be too out of breath to talk politics.
"Isn't a big part of the scandal that the sex activities led to the female lover accessing classified materials, and shooting her mouth that the CIA perhaps had prisoners in the compound?"
In the real world, perhaps, but not in the world according to Professor (spit) Franke: "...sexuality is being driven back into the closet as something shameful and incompatible with honor (in the case of Petraeus)..."
I have a hard time equating the Petraeus situation with the Clash situation. Not remotely connected. Unless one seeks to level the playing field to the level of Peter Singer, accepted speaker at Fordhan... if its a hole, fuck it. Whether it be snake, goat, woman, or underage boy. I know, 51 percent of our country approves, or, if they don't, don't have a choice. It's part of the package, you can't turn it down.
Mc Triumph, that's pillow talk.
Ever notice how, er, scholars of sexuality are just about the unsexiest people in the world?
Yeah, like the rest of us really need some earnest dimwitted frump, who can't grasp the simplest things about the meaning of "honor" and "decency", lecturing us about our alleged "sex panics", lol.
No holes off limits!!!
Politics is pillow talk? When I was doin the law students in the Young Republicans we didn't discuss politics in the bedroom.
Tried sitting on Santa Claus' lap yet?
That was November 6, half the country.
You should get this stuff written up for Penthouse Letters.
My frat bothers and I did, as a committee, got two published back in the early 70s. They are still hanging framed in the Frat.
Gay marriage is like traditional morality in this, at least: sometimes it needs to be saved from its friends.
The Petraeus affair was a trap door that he fell into. OK, it was adultery and wrong for a man in his position, but it doesn't boggle the mind that such a thing happened.....But the Tickle Me Elmo thing is not just wrong and immoral. It is vile and immoral. To make these sins morally equivalent is also vile and immoral.
Inga, just lie back and think of Wisconsin.
Forward!
Well, it appears that Prof. Franke is not just a monochromatic kind of LGBT activist. No sireee, bob.
In her other roles, she gets to hate on Israel and cheer for guys like Hamas, who would murder her for a heartbeat for being a dyke.
Columbia Univ. perfessors sure don't kid around when they become parodies of themselves, do they?
Yes, Ok! Now what yellow feather brain said all women were bisexual?
Seriously, why would someone come to that conclusion? Maybe I'm just old, but it seems reasonable to assume women are bisexual in the same percentages as men. Actually bisexuality somehow doesn't make sense to me, NTTAWWI.
The disjointed comments are now kind of funny to someone who wasn't just here a few minutes ago I bet.
I think he meant that all coke whores can be talked in to it.
@Inga,
Sorry. You can't go ragging on ole' Dante for "bisexual chicks" thing.
It's everywhere, and it sure as hell isn't neo-cons with yellow feathers who are spreading the meme around.
NITTAWWI? Is that a town or lake in Wisconsin?
But Young Hegeleian is it TRUE?
Yup sure is McTriumph, NTTAWWI, WI. :)
Gay people probably not happy to be lumped in with people who have affairs, and both gay people and people who have affairs are probably appalled at being lumped in with middle aged people who have sex with teenagers.
I'm sure he or her has some wonderful myth or history about a great deed. Wisconsin has towns everywhere named for such Native Americans. Madison seems to be the only town named for a WASP.
Closets are a tax... not a penalty.
@Inga
But Young Hegeleian is it TRUE?
How the hell would I know? I'm not a doing research in sexual behavior.
All I know is what I learned from my back issues of Double Dildo Dykes.
I mean, they wouldn't make up stuff like that, would they?
It is pathetic or only bathos perhaps, that this post and thread are even being discussed, given so many more life and freedom threating issues before us. But, so goes the life of the perpetual juvenile, the focus on the now. It's like Berlin in the late thirties, the craziness before the extinction hit. Or something, I don't know anymore, the world, or 51 percent of it, has sunk beneath my feet leaving me weightless and without an anchor. There is freedom there too, I suppose, but of no relevance or worth.
I can only speak to what my gay friends tell me, pedophilia disgust them.
One of the Kelly gals lawyer-ed up with Gloria Allred today.
Huh, odd censoring, that. Not questioning the right of same, just odd is all.
One of the Kelly gals lawyer-ed up with Gloria Allred today.
You can lawyer up but you cannot hide.
Someone's keeping Meade holding on to his deleter tool pretty tightly tonight.;)
Yeah, wayyyy too much lumping in that article.
jr565 said...
Nambla called and said stop acting like a bunch of prudes.
'The National Association of Marlon Brando Look-alikes'?
Surely you jest!
I have posted this before but it bears repeating:
Several years ago, when Tucker Carlson had his PBS show, he had on a Harvard prof who flatly stated that pedophiles should not be send to prison but rather viewed the same as alcoholics or drug addicts and should not be criminally charged but rather 'treated' for the why they were born.
Yup, pedophiles are born pedophiles and should be accepted as such.
And no, I am not making this up.
Several years ago, when Tucker Carlson had his PBS show, he had on a Harvard prof who flatly stated that pedophiles should not be send to prison but rather viewed the same as alcoholics or drug addicts and should not be criminally charged but rather 'treated' for the why they were born.
Couldn't there be an argument here depending on whether they were pedophiles who acted out or not? Should people who are pedophiles because they had illicit fantasies be sent to prison for that?
I gotta agree with ya Tiger, born that way? No. Arrested development more likely.
If you look for sex in the closet you are in the wrong place.
Just saying.
I notice people dont say 'just saying' anymore... is it out? as in back in the closet?
Everything going in and out all the time... the problem is under our nose.
Too many doors.
Did he just say all women are bisexual?
Yes, AllieOopsies IngaLinga,
I have come to this hypothesis through much direct, observational, and heretical observation.
The direct experiences I won't mention due to privacy reasons.
The indirect experiences include Porn and so called "Lesbians." In Porn, it is natural, normal, and expected to have female-on-female sex. Women are large consumers of porn, but it's there, not removed, so it isn't repugnant. No male on male sex, because it is repugnant. Lesbians are by nature almost all ugly, or have had some terrible experience with men in their lives. Excluding the women who have had the terrible experiences, why so many ugly women? Does "Ugly" indicate "Lesbian?" Probably not a very good survival strategy. And to prove it, many gay males are considered quite attractive by women. Including the following potentials: Rock Hudson, Tom Cruise, and Barrack Obama, who once said he could go down all the way, as opposed to his wife.
The high density of ugly, or abused lesbians, argues for some other cause of lesbianism. In fact, it begs the question, if these women were given, in their minds, suitable males with appropriate characteristics, would they prefer them?
Now, on to the final point, which is the heresy. The heresy, and I wish I could find it, is about a woman who decided she wanted to see what it was like to be a man. Now, this woman looked like a man, presumably because she is one of the uglies or abused women. But in this case, her goal was to see what it was like to be a man.
She made herself look convincingly a man, and found how hard it is to approach a woman. How depending on their mood, they will brush you off, belittle you, etc. But she also managed to start up a significant number of relationships. What astounded even her, is that roughly half of the women wanted to CONTINUE the relationship after she told them how she had duped them, and that he, in fact was a she
Now, for the hypothesis part of it.
The hypothesis part of it goes like this. Females in the higher mammals are often subjected to Harems. Male Male sex is verbotten, as it can take away from the dominant male, who may be old and ugly, but still powerful enough. In order to get the small sexual release they need, and to acquiesce to the nasty looking brute they owe sex to, they have diminished their sexual intolerance to appearance, and sexuality. The last bit essentially is all about what to do when you can't get any.
Now, going on further, in the modern day world, women are ashamed of their dependency on men, and so instead they push government to control men, so they can live the Life of Julia, or lesbian sex, etc., without being subjugated by Nasty Man.
An acquaintance, total paedo, license plate was CO 02B19 but he changed it out of embarrassment, told a joke:
I was busted for sexually preying upon a twelve year old kid.
Groans all around.
What? It's not my fault. He looked like he was ten.
I did not understand this joke. I had to have it explained to me then it really wasn't funny.
* cue tender music *
For you see, we have within us a protective instinct toward our young, even the young of other people, and it disturbs us when we discover those among us with predatory intentions toward our own children, usually due to their own inadequacies such as boyishly teeny tiny dangly parts, and we rebuff those individuals and find them not funny at all, nor cute, even with adorable popular puppets, not so much for their deficiencies but for their predation.
But you know what's really gay? This guy's Flicker photostream, that's what. But check out the woman's neckline tailoring if you do look, it's something.
Sorry, Other male sex with the harm is verbotten, . .
For obvious reasons.
Hello we are Sex Panic and we are here to rock you!
I can only speak to what my gay friends tell me, pedophilia disgust them.
Bigots!
Inga wrote:
Yes, Ok! Now what yellow feather brain said all women were bisexual?
Seriously, why would someone come to that conclusion? Maybe I'm just old, but it seems reasonable to assume women are bisexual in the same percentages as men. Actually bisexuality somehow doesn't make sense to me, NTTAWWI.
clearly you don't watch a lot of porn, which clearly shows that women are in fact bisexual. And porn doesn't lie!
Actually, it also shows that pizza delivery guys are getting a lot of tail.who knew?
In seriousness, I think women are more bisexual than men. There isn't that same aversion tht many men have for homosexual sex (if they aren't gay that is) so women experiment more openly without the same hangups.
Are they actually bisexual though, or just emgsging in bisexual sex? Note, this is more true with the younger generation, than with older people.
Many who abuse children/take advantage of older teens have been abused themselves as children.
Just saying...
While adults need to be held accountable and be punished for their acts, whenever criminal, we should also recognize that even the criminal needs help to break the cycle of abuse.
Oh, what a slippery slope the progs have put us on...
I'm not saying Petraeus should have been forced to resign, but it's bad to cheat.
Didn't he resign because of the security risk his affair(s) introduced into his job (blackmail)?
"Accusations" that are "completely unsubstantiated" when the perp is a public television puppeteer
I like "pubic puppeteer" better.
Hilarity would ensue if they gave an elmo doll to the accuser and said, "Show us on the doll where he touched you."
Man, that is funny stuff. Please, someone, photoshop it!
Talking about homo-eroticism, It's 7:27 CT, I'm watching Mourning Joe, Chis Matthews is blowing the ghost of JFK.
I used to like to put a blond wig on my Elmo doll and dress him up like Lady Gaga. His movements were quite sensuous when dressed this way. I had many hours of innocent fun with my Elmo doll, but now this pervert has ruined everything. There sure are some sick people in this world.
Oh, what a slippery slope the progs have put us on.
I blame Emerson and Lake. Palmer? Not so much.
Should I demand apologies from the commenters who demanded apologies from the commenters on the original thread?
I'm not sure how the protocol works.
"While adults need to be held accountable and be punished for their acts, whenever criminal, we should also recognize that even the criminal needs help to break the cycle of abuse."
Well, if we execute every child molester on a first offense, it will at least cut down on the number of people entering the "cycle."
Well, if we execute every child molester on a first offense, it will at least cut down on the number of people entering the "cycle."
I realize this is going to sound really bad. I think the FBI should have every NAMBLA member under surveillance, and I do not condone even Patreas with the younger Broadwell.
However, consider the person who is attracted to underage girls or boys. It's simply the way they feel. I do not think their feelings are different in terms of sex than anyone elses: it's a natural feeling.
But, society tells them it's wrong. They have a tremendous burden in their lives, to go through it having sexual feelings that seem right but they cannot respond to.
I don't know whether killing these people is the right answer, but I don't think they should ever be allowed into society again. It's too dangerous. But I can understand it has to be a pretty crappy life for the pedophile.
Yes, as I finished downloading my HD video of the latest Victoria's Secret runway show, I was musing to myself that sexuality is certainly being driven back into the [lingerie] closet these days.
Emo: My girlfriend said to me in bed last night, "You're a pervert." I said, "That's a big word for a girl of nine." http://tinyurl.com/aw3qajp
Proofreader is absorbing new vocabulary: http://www.religioustolerance.org/sex_devia.htm.
[From my house to Althouse: just an item I saw on the crazy web.]
By signing same-sex marriage into law, the Bible-loving Washington State Governor is helping to fulfill the predicted "days of Lot" (Luke 17) - days Jesus said would precede and hurry up His return as Judge - and she is thus making the Bible even more believable! After swelling up with pride, Mt. Rainier will be having a blast that Seaddlepated folks can share in lava-land!
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