Jeralyn Merritt says this is "the correct ruling":
A defendant raising self-defense may introduce evidence regarding a victim's reputation for a particular character trait like violence to show that the defendant was not the initial aggressor, even if the defendant did not previously know about the victim's reputation. Here's the Munoz case the Judge cites from, which quotes the Dwyer case....
The judge is not saying the records are relevant or admissible at trial. Her ruling is in response to a discovery request, and the issue is whether the records could lead to relevant and admissible evidence.
From
the Christian Science Monitor article on the ruling:
On Friday, Martin’s parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, called Judge Nelson’s decision to allow the school and social media subpoenas a travesty, suggesting that by opening up Martin’s records it would allow defense attorneys to “make a dead child seem as if they’re the perpetrator.”
In other words, the defendant is allowed to defend himself. Obviously, his only defense is that the "dead child" was the perpetrator. But the parents aren't legal experts (as Merritt is) and what do you expect them to say?
Posts
50 comments:
and what do you expect them to say?
Wjhatever makes it most likely for them to win a huge civil suit against somebody......
The defendant is waiting for election results. If Obama is re-elected, he is as screwed as the cops in the Rodney King case were screwed.
What will they find? Given his parents reaction, they'll find evidence that Travon was not exactly a blameless choir boy.
It's unfair to expose his history of thuggery, fight clubbing, crime, and drug use.
Much more fair to use the cartoon the family and media drew of an innocent pre-teen.
Zimmerman should have to defend himself against a Chicago gradeschool picture book version of MLK.
And check the "whitey" box.
It's only fair.
Will these records stay sealed, or might they be open for the media as well, I wonder.
For once, a reasonable ruling.
"...as if he is the perpetrator", not "...as if they're the perpetrator". I know the latter is the common usage in speech, but it's just grating to see it in print.
Ah yes. We'll soon likely learn that Trayvon was a gangsta wanna-be, and a thief.
Puts a little more credibility into Zimmerman's suspicion that he was casing the neighborhood, and Trayvon's anger that he was spotted.
"Will these records stay sealed, or might they be open for the media as well, I wonder."
They were available but no one was interested. The best source for the truth is a site called The conservative tree house, which had a long thread last spring that I spent an entire day reading. They have videos and reconstructions that show what happened. There are several other excellent sites but they are linked at that site,
Here is a thread about Trayvon. I don't know how hard it will be to find the material I spent a day reading several months ago but it was an education.
They are looking for references to this:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/24/police-aim-to-crack-down-on-violent-new-trend-knock-out/
This is a little off topic but this post got me thinking. What is it about this administration that almost routinely ends up with bystanders (innocent and otherwise) being chewed up by the power of the state and media. First, Joe the plumber, then the policeman in the Gates incident, then George Z, then film guy. Perhaps I've missed a few, but they all have the President personally sticking his nose into their lives. For the representative the party of the little guy, there sure seems to be a lot of collateral damage.
This is my prejudgement of the case. GZ was a cop wannabe and TM was a gangsta wannabe....All damaging info on GZ has been released, and lots of reporters actively tried to dig up more. TM has a problematic record, but I get the sense that the media retains a tactful silence about it and does not further try to damage his reputation. Perhaps I'm wrong about this, but that's the sense I get.......But here's an argument against GZ. Perhaps the reason why he was not able to defend himself better against TM was because he was reaching for his gun instead of trying to push TM off. That doesn't make him guilty of murder, but I don't think GZ is totally blameless.
Violent 3/5ths, suspended from school, hides his identity and cases houses for burglaries late at night in a neighborhood he doesn't live in, then attacks local neighborhood watch guy for daring to observe his criminal activity, knocks neighborhood watch guy down, gets on top of him, and goes for his gun.
Neighborhood watch guy draws his gun and shoots the worthless thug dead in pure self-defense, and removes a worthless piece of trash from circulation.
Naturally, to you lefties, the bad guy is clearly the neighborhood watch dude. And Easy Annie A. gives president Affirmative Action a free pass for fanning the flames on this case.
May every lefty meet a Trayvon late at night in a back alley. And may it be Garbage Pail, O Ritmo, and Inga the Lying Obama Whore first.
Even if Zimmerman were unarmed and dead from the attack, some people would still blame him for causing it. People are incapable of giving full victim status to people even when they deserve it. There is always a "but".
Gahrie said...
and what do you expect them to say?
Wjhatever makes it most likely for them to win a huge civil suit against somebody......
=============
There will be a Apr - May "stand your ground" Hearing before the trial in June ever starts, if it does start. I think that Hearing can look at all the stuff relevant to Stand Your Ground - including Zimmerman and Martin's past that might lend credence to a proclivity for aggression/bad judgment.
The "Saint Trayvon Martin" family lawyer will howl if it is all tossed then, and Zimmerman is found to be within the law.
1. No appeal.
2. Permanent legal immunity for all civil lawsuits.
3. No trial.
Of course, if Obama and Holder are still around, expect the black race baiters to demand and get Federal Civil Rights charges from Holder's Justice Dept "Civil Rights for Negroes Only Division".
(Another part of the Fed Government ripe for elimination - based on no longer being necessary and fiscally too costly)
Back in the day of breaking and conflicting stories in this killing, the factor that Zimmerman defenders wanted most to be true was evidence on Z of a broken nose and bumps on the back his concussed head.
That was why Z pulled his weapon and killed Martin.
So where are the medical records proving that convenient story?
".But here's an argument against GZ. Perhaps the reason why he was not able to defend himself better against TM was because he was reaching for his gun instead of trying to push TM off. That doesn't make him guilty of murder, but I don't think GZ is totally blameless."
A very brief summary for those who don't want to follow the links. Trayvon's facebook page showed his gangster wannabe side including some comments that suggested he was selling drugs. He also was writing about a drink popular in the south among blacks called "purple drank." It is made from codeine or dextromethorphine cough syrup mixed with Arizona ice tea fruit drink and Skittles. The mixture causes, besides a high, slow walking and trouble with balance. The drink is sipped ("sippin") and drinking it too fast will cause overdose and death. Several rappers have died from it.
There is a video, edited by ABC news including speeding it up, which shows Trayvon moving very slowly in a 7-11 store and asking the clerk for something kept behind the counter. Cough syrup is now kept behind the counter in those stores since the "purple drank" fad started. The clerk refused whatever was requested.
The time line shows slow transit time from the girlfriend's house to the 7-11 and back, even though it was raining. The father and girlfriend were out, leaving the boys alone and the father did not know that Trayvon had not come home until morning when the cops told him.
GZ was a security patrol and had asked the cops to meet him and call him when they got to the condo complex so he could tell them where he was.
"Purple drank" has a known tendency to sudden rages. One theory is that GZ's cellphone rang as Trayvon was approaching him and the startle reaction became a rage.
There is a lot more, including witnesses, but that is the bare bones of the story.
@Cedarford:
2. Permanent legal immunity for all civil lawsuits.
---Um, what?
Unfortunately, even if Zimmerman is cleared criminally, it will not grant him "immunity" from civil action.
Remember that even though the Sainted Black Hero O.J. was found not guilty (and blacks cheered because whitey deserves to die), he still lost a civil suit for wrongful death.
Never paid it though. Typical black guy: refuses to cough any court-ordered pay.
Read the law, "whore". Florida got sick of burglars and thieves suing the homeowner, store owner, or mugging victim that badly injured them.
So the Florida legislature, having the power to immunize certain classes from torts arising from their actions, did so in Stand Your Ground.
Zimmerman is found to be within the law - HE IS IMMUNIZED!!
This is just a judge giving the defense permission to use things in court that are already out there in public.
Namely, TM talked quite openly online about making "lean", which is a liquid mixture containing promythazine and codine from cough medicines mixed with candy and sprite.
In his school records they will go over the various detentions and suspensions involving theft. At one point TM was caught with woman's jewelry and a large flat head screwdriver (logically used to pry into lockers, etc).
I can understand his mother not wanting this stuff broadcast int he news, but it is information that the defense should be allowed to present.
@Cedarford:
Commendable.
Unfortunately, that only applies to Florida state laws.
Ever hear of "violation of civil rights"? 1983 suits? It's a vague federal suit that often the lefties bring to steal money where they can. The wording and law is so vague that you can actually sue someone who killed someone for "depriving you of your civil rights.
The civil right being the right to live.
And given the lefty filth already covering this case, no doubt the bottom-feeders of the SPLC are sharpening their daggers already.
whoresoftheinternet
re:
May every lefty meet a Trayvon late at night in a back alley. And may it be Garbage Pail, O Ritmo, and Inga the Lying Obama Whore first.
Don't assume that because garage and Inga are liberals who annoy us we want them to be mugged in an alley.
I like Inga. I even sort of like garage. I can't say the same for you. You know how it is with family. I can kvetch about them, because I love them, but you should remember who you're talking to.
"purple drank"
My parents ran a drug store in Seattle for 22 years. It was near the University, and at the time, all white people.
Most every Friday night, and Saturday, we would have a visits from African-American blue collar men. They would buy Terpin Hydrate & Codiene, Cheracol w/ Codiene or Histadyl E.C w/ Codiene. Of course, the purchase required identification, and that they sign a log book to mitigate abuse.
After they secured the cough medicine, they would go to the liquor store, and buy a bottle gin. The two ingredients were mixed, and consumed.
As I once heard in Mississippi...."You ain't lived until you've been a ______ on Saturday night".
That guy Crump is an attorney. He could properly advise Trayvon's parents better, but he's hustling for himself and them so he won't.
"Lean" is another name for "purple drank."
Heavy users tend to lean and weave as they walk.
@wyo sis:
Don't assume that because garage and Inga are liberals who annoy us we want them to be mugged in an alley.
----But I do.
And I never said "mugged." I said they should meet a Trayvon---the attempted murderer.
I like Inga. I even sort of like garage.
---They are the scum of the earth. And you are a quisling.
. I can kvetch about them, because I love them, but you should remember who you're talking to.
---Oh no! What ever will you do! I am so scared!
whores
Once again shows he/she/it is a troll.
The media has already decided George Z is guilty, so he will be found guilty by an all-black jury.
the factor that Zimmerman defenders wanted most to be true was evidence on Z of a broken nose and bumps on the back his concussed head. ...So where are the medical records proving that convenient story?
They're out an in the public domain. Photos taken after the assault show cuts on the back of Z's head. The medical report said he had a broken nose. The autopsy showed Martin had lacerations on his knuckles.
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg
Althouse, Meade... ... ... can't you make whoresof go away?
If mommy and daddy's little angel wasn't the perpetrator, then this really shouldn't be an issue. It's pretty obvious they are objecting only because they don't want the truth to come out.
Jeralyn Merritt is a treasure, btw. In case Freder at al wonder why they're held in such contempt here, just contemplate this person of the left who is, nevertheless, not a doctrinaire repeater of talking points.
While I would hate to second-guess the collective wisdom of the conservative blogsphere I have to wonder how a bunch of armchair criminologist just KNOW that some suburban teen is not just a burglar, but a burglar ready, willing, and prepared to kill someone - with their bare hands, no less - rather than just walking to his nearby home. If he's a burglar, he's a bright enough burglar to have not gotten caught (but stupid enough to get in trouble at school) and yet he's willing to drop the neighborhood watch guy right in the neighborhood he's been successfully working. And Martin would have to be the world's worse wannabe thug, to not have his own weapon, considering how readily available illegal weapons are, and again, our armchair criminologists tell us that Martin was undoubtedly a drug dealer/burglar, which makes his lack of a weapon of any sort almost exceptional. Perhaps he was a violent thug, who however took a principled stand against firearms? And knives, presumably. Or maybe his gat was in the shop.
Unless Zimmerman had full and perfect knowledge of Martin's school records, it has zero relevance. After the fact it's a lot simpler to assassinate the character of the person you killed, but the question is did Zimmerman have a reasonable belief that his life was in danger at the moment he pulled the trigger. Not months later, after he's had a chance to rationalize and get his story straight. If the roles had been reversed, and Zimmerman was dead, and Martin's family was bringing up Zimmerman's arrest(s), I'm going to bet that the people that think this is awesome would no longer think so.
Being a less than well behaved teenage boy isn't a capital offense; I'm consistently amazed that dancing on a teenagers grave has become a conservative pastime. You carry a weapon, not to dispense justice, or to go around dispatching 'thugs'; potential, wannabe, or hypothetical. Stay in the car, no one dies. Maintain tactical awareness, no one dies. Present your weapon as soon as the threat appears, no one dies. Even if Martin was out to do mischief, the only reason the situation escalated to a violent confrontation was a series of incredibly bad decisions and tactics from Zimmerman.
I heard Zimmerman has gained 40 to 50 pounds in recent months. If he doesn't want to go to prison he better lose all that fat(and more). Otherwise the prosecution will be showing photos of a 12 year old Trayvon and asking the jury if it's reasonable that such a small slender kid could have beaten Zimmerman so badly he had to pull his gun to save his life?
"While I would hate to second-guess the collective wisdom of the conservative blogsphere I have to wonder how a bunch of armchair criminologist just KNOW that some suburban teen is not just a burglar, but a burglar ready, willing, and prepared to kill someone - with their bare hands, no less - rather than just walking to his nearby home."
You're getting those proofs backward.
The only way to *know* that someone is willing and prepared to kill you with his bare hands (or rape you, or whatever) is to wait until it happens.
No self-defense law requires you to wait until after it happens to defend yourself from the possibility.
Stop being willfully stupid.
"Present your weapon as soon as the threat appears, no one dies."
Just wanted to say that this is an excellent way to die.
Never, never, never, do this.
"Purple drank," which Wikipedia says is made with soda and Jolly Ranchers not tea and Skittles, depends on codeine and promethazine for its high. Is Florida one of the states where prescription-strength cough syrup is dispensed without a prescription?
Unless Zimmerman had full and perfect knowledge of Martin's school records, it has zero relevance.
The relevance is this: Zim's defense is that Martin attacked him, so the jury has to decide whether they believe his story. If Martin has a history of assaulting people, or even talking about assaulting people on social media, it makes Zim's story more plausible. Remember that Zim does not have to prove his innocence, only raise reasonable doubts as to his guilt.
If the roles had been reversed, and Zimmerman was dead, and Martin's family was bringing up Zimmerman's arrest(s), I'm going to bet that the people that think this is awesome would no longer think so.
Obviously, if the roles had been reversed, Martin's lawyer would do the exact same thing and rightfully so. But then again, if Martin had killed Zim, none of us would know anything about this story, it'd be on page 12 of the Orlando papers.
“make a dead child seem as if they’re the perpetrator.”
If the dead 'child' was not a 'child' but a little thug yes show the records. But if they show he was not a problem, let that be on record to.
@Kirk Parker
Meade, and Althouse should NOT make whores of the internet "Go away" It is easy to permit speech that we aprove of, that which we find offensive is that which is protected by the 1st amendment. And yes, the professor would be well within her rights to ban someone from her blog, but thankfully, she has a larger view of free speech than others. Hell, she ain't banned me yet, and I can be down right annoying.
And Synova is right about showing your weapon to "avoid" a situation. Besides which, you pulling any weapon before a physical confrontation immediately makes YOU the aggressor.
The Trayvon case is clearly defined as self-defense because Trayvon had Zimmerman down on the ground, beating his head against the concrete. Even though Martin did not have a weapon, Zimmerman was in fear of losing his life. This case goes to the jury because of 2 things. The DA wants a scalp of a "racist" to flash as credentials for a political run, and the Society of the Perpetually Aggrieved were clamoring for the scalp of the defendant for reasons of their own racism.
With a mildly competent lawyer, this will get plea bargained out to say the face of the DA, because if it does go to the jury, there will be a finding of innocent, and that's something the race baiters cannot allow.
And Trayvon's mother is only saying what most mothers would say about their dead son. I got no problem with her. The Society of the Perpetually Aggrieved though, I despise.
An Innocent verdict would probably play nicely for the Society of the Perpetually Aggrieved. Just think of all the outrage.
What, you think it would cause them to rethink their premises or something?
Carnifex,
It's right there in the first paragraph of the posting instructions: "What we delete are bad faith comments, comments that we believe have the ulterior motive of destroying the conversation and driving people away from this forum. "
Surely whores... comments fall under this.... surely???
@Krik Parker:
lol. I'm sorry telling the truth about Trayvon is verboten in your world. I'm sorry telling basic facts about the degenerate nature of blacks is grounds to burn the first amendment and lock me up for life. "Bad faith", indeed.
You and Inga the Lying Obama Whore must have a lot to talk about.
"Remember that Zim does not have to prove his innocence, only raise reasonable doubts as to his guilt."
-- He's making an assertive defense (whatever the technical term is), so he actually has the burden to prove his shooting was justified, I thought.
Also: If Zimmerman's background (incident where he pushed a cop, etc., etc.) is worth putting in, than so is Martin's. Though, I believe I'm on record, here at least, saying all that matters is the 3 to 4 minutes that transpired with the two of them together. If Martin punched him, mounted him and beat his head into the ground, it does not matter if Martin was a saint and Zimmerman routinely went to Michael Vick's dog park. -Actions- are at issue, not character.
(Likewise, if it turns out that Zimmerman was the aggressor, it doesn't matter if Martin broke into a house just a few minutes ago. All that matters is that short window of time the two people were interacting with each other.)
I would think that the jury not having the truth before them would be the real travesty.
Trey
Post a Comment