August 5, 2012

Romney's Israel ad.

"The commercial then features footage of Romney appearing in the Jewish state, meeting with Israeli voters, wearing a yarmulke and visiting the Western Wall":



What do you think of that ad?
  
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85 comments:

Carnifex said...

It's nice that Mitt supports Israel's right to exist, but that ain't a reason for an American to vote for him. There are plenty of other reasons for that.

Ps.

Countries do not have "special" friends or relations with other countries. At best they have convergent interests. Anyone who believes anything else is naive.

edutcher said...

I don't know that he needs it after Netanyahu bitch slapped Choom in front of the entire world, but, yeah, a good ad.

mdbernie said...

That will show those culturally inept Palestinians. And, why did Mitt leave off the part about how good the Israeli (nationalized) health care system is? These were both important points he made on his trip there!

sydney said...

He should design all of his ads with these kinds of visuals. Start off with a picture of Obama acting angry, or tilting his head up in that Mussolini style, then show clips of friendly, happy, reasonable Mitt. I really don't care so much what Mitt thinks about Israel, but I thought he came across as the superior temperament in that commercial.

Tarkwell Robotico said...

Canada and the United States are "special" friends. To pretend otherwise is delusional.

Friendships flourish from convergent interests. Especially when the degree of convergence is especially intense and the number of convergent interests especially numerous.

By the way, corporations are people too. And corporations can have special friends too.

edutcher said...

mdbernie said...

That will show those culturally inept Palestinians.

They want to act like barbarians, they get treated like barbarians.

And, why did Mitt leave off the part about how good the Israeli (nationalized) health care system is?

Maybe because it's a throwback to the days when they wanted to be a socialist paradise?

cold pizza said...

Several thoughts:

1. Why should Obama visit Israel when there are no golf coursss and it would take time away from his busy fund-raising schedule?

2. As a Mormon, Mitt sees Isreal as holding a special place in the world, the chosen people of God.

3. re Carnifax, call me naive. We certainly have "special" relationships that with other countries that go beyond merely "convergent interests." American culture as a whole (or considered as a melting pot instead of a fruit salad)shares a common linguistic background, political history, ethos, logi, and moral foundation centered on individual rights winding back 2000 years to a fusion of religious and philosophical beliefs. Look at WWII's "Lend/Lease" program as an example. Look at NATO and (formerly) SEATO. Yes, nations will mostly act due to self-interest (just as people do), but I propose there are bonds of history that connect and unite democracies in ways that dictatorships can never match.

4. The ad was okay. But as long as Iran or Hamas doesn't cause a major incident until AFTER the elections, I can't see any significant portion of the Jewish community turning towards Mitt.

5. Of course, the ad is aimed at convincing the evangelical Christian community (which also has a disproportional view of the importance of Isreal in God's eyes) that Mitt, while not sharing their regilious beliefs, would still be a champion for the Holy Land, which assurance Obama seems unable to provide.

-CP

mdbernie said...

<>

As I said, that's why Mitt PRAISED Israel's nationalized healthcare system while he was in Israel. I can only conclude, as Ann said recently about Obama, that Romney must be a socialist.

shiloh said...

Obama won the Jewish vote 78/21 mainly because Jews are much more secular than the average American.

In any event, like Asians, Jews comprised 2% of the electorate in 2008. It should help Obama a tad in FL, much like 2008.

Romney can pander now 'til kingdom come re: Jews to no effect. mittens ad nauseam contradictions on every major political subject notwithstanding.

tim maguire said...

Seems heavy handed. Support for israel is important to me, but not at the cost of other interests in the area.

Big Mike said...

I tell my Jewish friends that when the pogroms come to the United States -- and I no longer think it's a question of "if" anymore -- the pogroms will come from the left and not the right. They can't believe it.

traditionalguy said...

This is a blunt warning to the Jews who support Israel that the Obama's re-election will have serious and likely deadly consequences for Jews living in the Jewish state.

Whether that will be noticed or not is an open question. But the warning has been made.

Peter said...

While the Jewish vote may not be large enough for Romney to derive significant benefits from this ad, the Islam-will-Conquer-the-World panty piddling paranoid constituency is far larger. This ad will help him among that group, granted many already were supporting him.

edutcher said...

The Jewish vote does seem to be wising up to Choom.

It's like his losses among blacks and Hispanics - it's only going to take a little in key states to turn this.

And Asians now constitute about 5% of the US population.

Tim said...

American Jews will still vote, overwhelmingly, for Obama.

Stupid like that is hard to fix; worse yet, the Democrats know it, and do just enough to foster mindless dependency.

This will resonate much more so with Christian fundamentalists honoring the First Covenant; no doubt the Romney campaign knows that too. Any defecting Jewish voters will just be gravy.

Tim said...

"...mittens ad nauseam contradictions on every major political subject notwithstanding."

Even if that were true, voting for the least experienced candidate ever nominated by a major political party for president was an exercise in demonstrating willful stupidity; given Obama's all-to-obvious and manifest failures, voting for him again conclusively proves one an idiot of uncorrectable degree. You and other parasites may "win," but in so doing, you'll only hasten the demise of your host, America. Hooray for you.

The Crack Emcee said...

No mention of American indians who, according to Mormon "faith," are the lost tribes of Israel?

These guys really don't know how to sell it,...

P.S.

We're very likely going to have a president who's a bigger nutjob than the present one.

Outta be fun,...

shiloh said...

Someone please inform Althouse's personal pet, edutcher, the difference between electorate and population. TIA

Tim said...

"P.S.

We're very likely going to have a president who's a bigger nutjob than the present one.

Outta be fun,..."


While I'm certain you are wrong on the "nutjob" assessment, I hope you are right about the change.

I'm not so hopeful; voting for Obama in '08 was an act of defiant stupidity, much like a teenager's acting out.

I'm not so optimistic stupidity like that is correctable.

As for the "nutball," nothing in Romney's record suggests any public effect whatsoever; nor have you ever demonstrated it to anyone's satisfaction but your own.

Dante said...

We need oil, until we can get BO, MO, JO, and other Democrats out of office and drill for our own.

Until then, if this lessens the chance of the Jihadists from destabilizing the region, I'm all for it. Unfortunately, who knows. BO's approach doesn't look like it helped much, and the Democrat idiots seem intent on stopping the use of our and Canada's oil.

shiloh said...

Not to worry, if by some miracle mittens is elected president. He'll be whatever his neocon puppeteers want him to be.

Much like Bush43.

Synova said...

"Countries do not have "special" friends or relations with other countries. At best they have convergent interests. Anyone who believes anything else is naive."

This is both true and untrue.

Our relationships with other countries are illustrative of our own character. Are WE faithful?

Or do we participate in something like the formation of the Israeli state and then abandon the, shall we say, children of our own actions?

I think that it's true that nations don't have *friends*. But we do have obligations and we have allies. And since we desire faithful dealing from others when it comes to us, we have to show faithful dealing when it comes to them.

Who do you (any "you") trust more? The person who is honest and faithful and courteous to people you dislike, or the person who snubs the person you dislike in order to curry your favor?

Bruce Hayden said...

Why are the Jews important here? With under 2% of the population? I think mostly the answer is money. They have long been the prime financiers of the Democratic party, probably since maybe FDR's time. And, yes, the brains too. But, mostly, I think, the money.

I was looking up the religious affiliation of politicians, and was unsurprised that there were 12 Jewish Senators, with maybe 1.7% of the population. This, I think is typical, and a they are mostly Democrats. And, Obama was, I think, the last Black Senator - despite blacks being a significant percentage of the population. Hispanics are also mostly unrepresented (and the Republicans seem much more willing put put them in prominent seats - including hopefully the election of Ted Cruz this November).

But, back to this election cycle - Obama and the Dems are apparently freaking out right now because of their money problems. Last time, Obama was able to easily bury McCain by his spending - apparently picking up the contributions of those too young to vote, the dead, those in prison, here illegally, or, not here - we really don't know because they turned off credit card verification. They didn't bother to turn it on this time around, and are still getting beaten financially - the Dems are collecting less and spending more, the Reps the opposite.

The panic in the funding by the Dems and Obama seems to be getting more and more pronounced. If the Jews would just pay their fair share (i.e. most of the money), things would be fine. But, they won't because Obama hasn't had their back over the last 3 1/2 years. Rather, in regards to Israel, he has consistently taken the side of their enemies, and disrespected their leaders. Moreover, he has not distanced himself from the parts of the Black leadership that have become ever more increasingly vocal in their antisemitism.

So, yes, Romney is wooing the Jewish community. Maybe less for their financial support, than to keep it out of Obama's coffers. The more observant have his stand on Israel, contrasted to the reality of Obama's actions. And for those in business, he is able to say to them that he has worked with a lot of them over the years. He, being a Harvard MBA and very successful in building and running companies, as well as in finance understands business far better than a community organizer from Chicago. Besides, Mormons empathize with Jews, being persecuted minorities.

It doesn't have to bring in a lot of votes - it just has to keep more Jewish checkbooks closed to Obama, and that seems to be working.

deborah said...

You needed 'hilarious' as a choice.

Cedarford said...

Carniflex - Countries do not have "special" friends or relations with other countries. At best they have convergent interests. Anyone who believes anything else is naive.

-----------
With rare exceptions like US-Canada-UK, or within the UK itself, or Scandanavia.

Otherwise, best beware when some country or it's boosters start talking about Our Special Relationship/Our Special Friendship. Usually it is a sign they are out to take more than they plan give.
Same with morons like Bush II talking about his Special Friendship with his Dear Friend Ahmed Karzai of Afghanistan ...

As for Israel somehow deserving a personal visit from each President as "our Bestest Friends" - you don't hear that sort of shit about longterm allies that we actually fought alongside us in war and are far more cooperative on fugitives, not spying on us...
You won't hear about the Presidential Obligation to visit Chile, Thailand, New Zealand, Ireland, Poland, France, Columbia, Liberia, etc., etc.

Synova said...

As for Romney's foreign trip: I don't like it any more than Obama's foreign trip while he was campaigning. We ridiculed Obama for having a huge campaign speech in Germany, and rightly so. At least (I don't think) Romney did that, but I still don't think that meeting with foreign governments is appropriate when you're not the guy who is supposed to be doing that.

Is this foreign tour for candidates a usual thing that I just never noticed before?

wildswan said...

When the LSM media and polls are both so dishonest how can we tell what is influencing people? Look at how Gov. Walker was supposedly losing in Wisconsin ... but actually support for the union position was disappearing to the point that Kathleen Falk, the union candidate, was pushed aside in the union-sponsored recall election.

A similar scenario might be going on in the general election.
I think I have read that it would only take a continuation of the present slow bleeding away of support for Obama among the Democrats from now till November to cause a Romney landslide. And what will stop that bleeding? A couple more Chik-Fil-a kiss ins?

edutcher said...

Asians are the fastest growing immigrant group in the country.

Somebody whistling past the graveyard may want to remember that.

This ain't '08.

And I'm still waiting for rebuttals on any of the topics covered Friday.

deborah said...

That particular footage of Obama can be seen as racially charged, and Mormons have a history of racism.

edutcher said...

So does Choom ("typical white person").

shiloh said...

"Asians are the fastest growing immigrant group in the country."

Continuing edutcher deflections aside, please provide a certifiable source for your opinion.

>

And let the record show edutcher is definitely confused, as per usual, re: the difference between electorate and population.

The Crack Emcee said...

Tim,

As for the "nutball," nothing in Romney's record suggests any public effect whatsoever; nor have you ever demonstrated it to anyone's satisfaction but your own.

What part of Mormonism, being the most secretive "religion" in America, don't you understand? I have shown he consults with Mormon leaders on policy. If you follow Mormonism, then you know they've always been more-than-politically-active.

What you DON'T want to do is engage with that:

Tom Cruise says he's not in a cult? Fine - it's not a cult.

Scientology won't openly admit what they're up to? Fine - they're not up to anything.

That's your attitude. And it's stupid, short-sighted, and can only be described as the patriotism of morons.

If voting for Obama was dumb - and I agree it was - then voting for Romney is Dumb and Dumber.

Why don't you just admit that, as far as you're concerned, a surface-level understanding of Mormonism is good enough for someone too lazy to dig into it and see for themselves what's behind the curtain they work so hard to keep raised?

You're idiots,...and hypocrites:

We know all about Obama's finances - but you don't want to see any more of Romney's tax returns than he'll give you - a total reversal of "We The People" if there's ever been one.

We know all about Obama's church - but Romney's is off limits.

Romney has made insane comments, like Jesus returning to Missouri or American indians are the lost tribe of Israel, but nobody can factor such nonsense in, when questioning his commitment to, say, making sure kids get a proper education.

No - he can say any crazy bullshit in the world, and you asshole liars will still be there, declaring he's as normal as the sun rising and anyone who notices his crazy talk is a bigot.

It's a cult, turning your brain inside out, and you don't even care,..

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
deborah said...

Just making an observation, ed. Obama is a race-baiter extraordinaire, I know.

edutcher said...

shiloh said...

Asians are the fastest growing immigrant group in the country.

Continuing edutcher deflections aside, please provide a certifiable source for your opinion.


Black Rock, LA Times, SFGate.

The little animal never puts up any verification of his droolings, but there's mine and there's plenty more including the US Census.

And I'm still waiting for those rebuttals.

edutcher said...

Synova said...

As for Romney's foreign trip: I don't like it any more than Obama's foreign trip while he was campaigning. We ridiculed Obama for having a huge campaign speech in Germany, and rightly so. At least (I don't think) Romney did that, but I still don't think that meeting with foreign governments is appropriate when you're not the guy who is supposed to be doing that.

The Romster and Netanyahu are old friends (I don't think a family breakfast constitutes negotiating with a foreign government) and Walesa is a private citizen.

rcocean said...

"This will resonate much more so with Christian fundamentalists honoring the First Covenant"

The US really is a land full of religious and political nuts.

Roger J. said...

Re fastest growing ethnic group, an article from the LA Times:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/18/local/la-me-asian-americans-20120619

jr565 said...

Crack,
We looked at Obama's church not because of what Christians say about their religion and how kooky/crazy it is, but what the pastor said about AMERIKKKKKKA. THat was the fundamental issue. Since Obama was running for President of America, it's kind of important to understand how he views this country. Does he view it the way Rev. WRight does? WHy was he in that church then for 20 years?

But if you want to go into some kooky bible verses there's this:
http://listverse.com/2008/01/31/top-10-bizarre-biblical-tales/

Should we start asking all Christians running for President what they think of Balaam and his talking donkey for example, or whether Jonah was really swallowed by a whale or whether Noah really got 2 of every animal and insect known to man and put them on his ark.

Yes Mormons believe in some crazy shit. As do most religions. Despite this fact, we've had religious presidents who believed in God yet also were able to run the country.

Chip Ahoy said...

It's cynical. To me it makes the trip to Israel look like it was for the purpose of making an ad like this and maybe it was. I'm fine with that. I have lived through a Democrat controlled everything and come to accept deep cynicism as natural.

Bruce, you said pretty much everything right there.

And hey, looky Everybody, Siloh knows a word, 'neocon.' Isn't that wonderful?

wyo sis said...

"Not to worry, if by some miracle mittens is elected president. He'll be whatever his neocon puppeteers want him to be.

Much like Bush43."


If we have to have a puppet (and I disagree with you on that point, Romney is nobody's puppet) better a neocon puppet than a Soros puppet.

Saint Croix said...

Not to worry, if by some miracle mittens is elected president. He'll be whatever his neocon puppeteers want him to be.

By "neocon," shiloh, do you mean Jewish?

Much like Bush43

Kind of like this?

creeley23 said...

When it comes to Western Civilization, I consider Israel the canary in the coal mine. If Israel is destroyed, we're in trouble, and the US is next in line for the world's full fury.

It's not only right to support this brave, democratic ally, it's in our self-interest.

I'm glad that Romney went to Israel.

ricpic said...

Couple of good points made in this thread:

sydney, at 10:42, pointing out that the ad highlights Romney being reasonabe vs. Obama showing anger. Before voting against an incumbent president they're not happy with most Americans have to be fairly confident that they're not handing the reins to a "scary guy." That's all Romney really has to do, show that he's nonthreatening and he's in.

Big Mike at 11:27 points out that Jews have a total blindspot when it comes to seeing, or if they see it acknowledging a threat from the Left. Books have been written trying to explain this phenomenon. Suffice it to say it's tragically so. I'd be surprised if Romney cracks above 30% of the Jewish vote.

Cedarford said...

creeley23 said...
When it comes to Western Civilization, I consider Israel the canary in the coal mine. If Israel is destroyed, we're in trouble, and the US is next in line for the world's full fury.

It's not only right to support this brave, democratic ally, it's in our self-interest.


=================
By that logic, we should have supported Serbia in it's conflict with the Islamoids...since if canary in a coal mine Serbia lost, we'd be next.
Or that we are obligated to support India as a "frontline nation" facing the Islamoids, regardless of how anti-American and socialist India was before recent years.

Not that your argument does not have merit. The biggest canary may actually be the Euro countries that stupidly let 10s of millions of fast-breeding 3rd Worlders in, mostly Islamoids - Who are now poised to overwhelm the native white population in several nations demographically - unless they do a Breivik or sensibly end "one man one vote" democracy.

But yes, Israel is surrounded by hostile and somewhat irrational Islamoids. It was a huge mistake for Hertzel, Rothschild and Balfour (suitably bribed) to create the new Zionist Israel right athwart two sides of the Ummah in the 1st place.
But there it is. Facts on the ground.
You can't use a time machine to cancel out 1917 and put the Jews in a more suitable "nation location" - like in Siberia, Madagascar, Uganda, Newfoundland or Labrador Canada.

You can make it a better situation if you end Zionist colonization on the West Bank, the Islamoids recognize Israel in it's pre-1967 Borders with adjustments - with peace and declaration that anti-Jewish terror ops end. Israel recognizes 2State solution in turn. The Jews and Palis end the "Right of Return" garbage.
And the Jews compensate the Palis for land and goods they stole, less what the Arabs stole from the Jews in response to the Jewish thievery.

Seeing Red said...

Obama's attempting to disenfranchise the military's vote.

Nichevo said...

C4, sigh.

1 Yeah, maybe squashing the Serbs was the wrong play. Or were you being ironic?

2 When Pak was useful and somewhat loyal they were ok. Now they're not. I change my mind when the facts change. When do you, sir?

3 There is no point giving anything whatsoever to the Arabs, instead it is best to hurt them till they ask you to stop hurting them. Ask the Ottomans. Nobody gave them any crap. At least not for long. Promoting concessions marks you as stupid or insincere.

4 Boy, you're itching to end democracy. Wonder what you would replace it with and would you be on the inside or the outside?

Dante said...

Why don't you just admit that, as far as you're concerned, a surface-level understanding of Mormonism is good enough for someone too lazy to dig into it and see for themselves what's behind the curtain they work so hard to keep raised?

Crack, I'm having a hard time following. Are you saying you would rather have BO again?

Or do you think there is any chance of anyone other than BO and Romney?

Insofar as being secretive, I do not trust BO at all. I trust Romney more.

Here is what I could imagine BO doing. Keeping the unemployment rate up. Using other means to damage the economy. Continue to damage our military might. Continue to damage our culture.

What are you concerned Romney will do?

Bill said...

Guys, I'm confused.

How many times did Reagan visit Israel? How many times did Bush I go? What about Bush II? When, during his presidency, dig Dubya check out Israel?

We (Jews) aren't buying this. We're not buying Romney, at all. He's annoying. He's shallow. His flip-flopping makes Kerry look sane.

Sorry, no go.

Bill said...

And, as a follow-up--BO visited Israel when he was running for president. Romney is doing the same thing now.

This commercial is silly.

wyo sis said...

History has borne out the prophesies in scripture about the Jews. As a Judeo Christian nation it makes sense for the United States to pay attention to what the Bible says about the fate of the Jews. Romney has it right from that perspective.

The Crack Emcee said...

Dante,

Crack, I'm having a hard time following. Are you saying you would rather have BO again?

No - I want them both kicked to the curb. Mitt and the Mormons are like Obama and his billion unelected Czars - people holding power who are answerable to no one. This idea that we have to be repeatedly stuck with these losers - with their cults attached - is bullshit. But, if that's the way it's got to be, then at least know who the cults are, what they're up to, and put them on notice we're on to them and watching their every move.

Or do you think there is any chance of anyone other than BO and Romney?

Out of a nation of 300 million? No, there couldn't possibly anyone else - especially not someone hooked up with a cult. It just couldn't happen.

Insofar as being secretive, I do not trust BO at all. I trust Romney more.

This isn't just about Romney - he's got a cult behind him. You shouldn't ever speak about him without including them. Everyone agrees that's the core of his being - so we should know everything there is about it. Not just whether they seem "nice" or not. (Ever heard of a cult that didn't?)

Here is what I could imagine BO doing. Keeping the unemployment rate up. Using other means to damage the economy. Continue to damage our military might. Continue to damage our culture.

Agreed.

What are you concerned Romney will do?

Bring more power and influence to his cult. While we should be dismantling these groups that are determined to control us, you guys are electing them to power. You did it with Obama and now you're doing it again - and I can't understand why. What is the attraction of cults? That Romney is in one is the first sign of his weakness - shit, it's a fucking beacon - but you guys choose to ignore it, like they don't exist and all we've got is a battle between two men. We don't - it's always been Obama and Oprah's NewAge Movement Vs. Mitt and the Mormon's NewAge movement. To say "I trust Mitt" and leave out the Mormon "church" is both ignorant and naive. Mitt doesn't do shit without church approval, so who are you really electing?

I say you don't know, and you don't want to know either, which hardly makes you guys patriots,....

Nichevo said...

Hey, Bill, assuming you really are Jewish, you're not the only one, and who's "we?" Got a mouse in your pocket? This Jew wants Obama gone.

The rest of your claptrap is more mush from another wimp.

The Crack Emcee said...

jr565,

Crack,
We looked at Obama's church not because of what Christians say about their religion and how kooky/crazy it is, but what the pastor said about AMERIKKKKKKA. THat was the fundamental issue. Since Obama was running for President of America, it's kind of important to understand how he views this country. Does he view it the way Rev. WRight does? WHy was he in that church then for 20 years?


The current Mormon "prophet" said they were at war. With who? For what? You don't care. But isn't that a "fundamental issue"? Especially if they have the kind of hold on Romney as reported?

Since Romney was running for President of America, it's kind of important to understand how he views this country. (Fuck any politicians words - what is the truth?) Does Romney view it the way his "prophet" does? (With Mormons as better than all the "gentiles" around them?) WHy has he been in that church then for his entire life?

I stated the truth here and I'm still standing by it:

You're hypocrites,...

Nick Carter M. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nick Carter M. said...

What's wrong with being afraid of Islam? It's a terrifying religion.

jr565 said...

No - I want them both kicked to the curb. Mitt and the Mormons are like Obama and his billion unelected Czars - people holding power who are answerable to no one. This idea that we have to be repeatedly stuck with these losers - with their cults attached - is bullshit. But, if that's the way it's got to be, then at least know who the cults are, what they're up to, and put them on notice we're on to them and watching their every move.

Crack, the idea that Obama will have his czar's who are unelected and answer to no one is an absolute given. THe idea that Romney will suddenly get all culty and enact mormonism all across the country, is not. Nor is it even a probably proposition. We know this because we have examples of when he ran a state.
If anything, conservatives have to worry about him being a squish on issues, but very little on him becoming theocratic.

And for your perusal, Romans used to refer to Christianity as the "cult of Christ". Meaning, any religion could be deemed by some to be a cult. Christianity has more history behind it, but if you want to look for wacky ideas, you'll find plenty of them in the Bible. So, perhaps Christians shouldn't cast stones towards others in cults.If you view all religions as cults, then how is Mormonism all that much crazier than say Islam. At least Mormons are not strapping bombs on their chest in the name of their god.

ANd last I heard, being a christian hasn't exactly been a disqualifying characteristic for a president.

At any rate, whether you want both Barack or Mitt to go is no longer the point. It's going to be one or the other. So, your choice should reflect that reality.

I have every reason to believe that Obama will continue to be Obama, and very little evidence to believe that Mitt will somehow act other than how he's acted up till now, in terms of his faith. And his mormonism has not mattered much to me, nor has it really made it's way into policy that I can see (except perhaps on the most generic of levels). As such, it's not really a pressing,simply because he's a mormon. If you lived in boston at the time he was governor, you may have questioned his policies, but noone suggested that he was some radical theocrat, nor crazy, nor crazy religious, nor that he even wore his religion on his sleeve.

jr565 said...

Crack wrote:
The current Mormon "prophet" said they were at war. With who? For what? You don't care. But isn't that a "fundamental issue"? Especially if they have the kind of hold on Romney as reported?


I'm not sure what this is referring to. I'd have to see the context.

Mark Nielsen said...

@jr565: Crack and context don't get along so well -- you're not likely to see both of them in the same comment.

jr565 said...

You do have to take him at his word of course, but Romney had this to say about his religion the last go around:

I will put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office and the sovereign authority of the law. A president must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States."

Instead of discussing the specific tenets of his faith, he said that he would be informed by it and that, "Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone."

Romney strikes me as far less of a religious person, outwardly than say a George Bush, a Mike Huckabee or a Santorum. (and all three would be preferable to Obama)

Fen said...

Crack: You're hypocrites

Said the guy who went after that Mormon Reid who's been 3rd in line for the Presidency for the last six years.

oh wait... never mind.

Paddy O said...

Crack, mildly off topic, but not entirely, what do you think of Seventh Day Adventists?

rcocean said...

"As a Judeo Christian nation it makes sense for the United States to pay attention to what the Bible says about the fate of the Jews."

Sounds kinda nutty and certainly violates "separation of church and state". In any case, I'll let God look after Israel and vote based on what's good for the USA.

Akiva said...

As an American ex-patriot Jew living in Israel, I can say Romney's visit was very popular here. There's around 300,000 American ex-patriots in Israel as well as another 50,000 American's in religious studies. Last election they not only swung heavy for Obama, they were very very organized in voter registration prior to the election, which included pre-filled absentee ballots for Obama.

This time the Obama support is no where to be seen, and there's some moderate absentee voter registration drives with Romney support. No pre-filled absentee ballots this time around.

Even as an American ex-patriot, I still say America should do whatever is in it's best interests - and I expect the President of the United States to do exactly that.

WHAT I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND is, after trying a "new direction", dumping on allies to open up relationships with those whom you've had poor relationships in the past, and having the whole thing FAIL and land like a turd in your lap - why Obama & Clinton don't shift direction. I would respect "we tried, it didn't work, now we're shifting."

What's seriously troubling is ideologues who strongly hang on to their position even when it's collapsed around them.

BTW, to the commentor who noted Jews are "more secular". That demographic is dropping fast, as the very secular Jewish segment is in their 2nd or 3rd generation of having 1 child families, while the very religious Jewish sector has been averaging 3-8 child families. In New York City, 65% of Jewish schoolchildren are now from the very religious sector.

The Crack Emcee said...

jr565,

Crack, the idea that Obama will have his czar's who are unelected and answer to no one is an absolute given. THe idea that Romney will suddenly get all culty and enact mormonism all across the country, is not.

Did I say that's what Mitt would do? Where? You're replacing your ideas for mine, again, jr. Meaning you're still an idiot. Learn how to address what's said - not your interpretation of it - and then we can talk.

Perhaps Christians shouldn't cast stones towards others in cults.

Since I'm not a Christian, I have no idea what you're getting at.

At least Mormons are not strapping bombs on their chest in the name of their god.

Yeah, "at least" that, huh? (God, you set the bar low, man.)

At any rate, whether you want both Barack or Mitt to go is no longer the point. It's going to be one or the other. So, your choice should reflect that reality.

It does - I'm voting for neither.

I have every reason to believe that Obama will continue to be Obama, and very little evidence to believe that Mitt will somehow act other than how he's acted up till now, in terms of his faith.

But you don't even acknowledge what that "very little evidence" is or means, or how it fits in with the word "secretive." You're an idiot, jr.

And his mormonism has not mattered much to me,…

And you're all that matters, right, jr? The kid, terrorized because they found a hole in Mormon "theology," they don't matter - to you - right? No, that's as it should be because jar's conscience is clear. You're an idiot, jr.

Fen,

Said the guy who went after that Mormon Reid who's been 3rd in line for the Presidency for the last six years.

oh wait... never mind.

Ever checked my blog for posts on Harry Reid, Fen? No? Then shut-the-fuck-up, you idiotic moron.

Paddy O,

Crack, mildly off topic, but not entirely, what do you think of Seventh Day Adventists?

Not much. My mother and sister (who I haven't seen since I was a baby) are currently not speaking because, amongst other things, one goes to church on Sunday and the other on Saturday. That's enough for me - I dropped them both. As with all religious types, they can't see they're behaving in a non-religious manner, or that their "teachings" drove them to this place, or that the result of their belief (in two different religions) is the opposite of what we're told it should be. They just kept trying to convert me.

Sigh.

Death is going to feel so good,...

Nichevo said...

Sigh.

Death is going to feel so good,...

8/6/12 7:15 AM


Well then, what's keeping you, big talker? Go ahead and die, woe-is-you. No religious bias against suicide I trust? But maybe suicide is quitting to toy. So, you're all hard-core war/gang veteran, go take out Romney if he's so dangerous. That'll get you dead quick. I don't have to tell you about going after Obama.

Or go to the Middle East and try to infiltrate a cell somewhere. Or hijacking a plane and crash it into the great Mormon temple. Volunteer for medical testing. Offer yourself in a hostage exchange. Go out into a perilous Detroit courtyard and offer succour to a nine-year-old boy who also thought death would feel good.

Make your death useful. Or live. But whatever you do, quit whining!

The Crack Emcee said...

Nichevo,

Whatever you do, quit whining!

Look who's talking! I complain about organized groups, out to control everyone's life - and who have already had a profound effect on mine - but you're all twisted in knots OVER ONE GUY ON A BLOG!

Feeling like a hypocrite yet, asshole?

Rather than handing out advice - or even talking -you might want to practice getting a grip ON YOURSELF, maestro,...

Fen said...

Crack: Hyprocrites

Said the guy who went after that Mormon Reid who's been 3rd in line for the Presidency for the last six years.

oh wait... never mind.

Crack: Ever checked my blog for posts on Harry Reid, Fen? No? Then shut-the-fuck-up, you idiotic moron.

Why do we have to go to your blog? You post 24/7 here on Althouse about how Romney is some kind of Mormon cult threat. Not once have you posted anything here about Reid over the last 6 years, even though he's 3rd in line for POTUS and Senate Majority Leader.

How do you explain the discrepancy? Other than calling people names, of course...

Fen said...

My mother and sister (who I haven't seen since I was a baby) are currently not speaking because, amongst other things, one goes to church on Sunday and the other on Saturday. That's enough for me - I dropped them both.

Thats really sad. You should get counseling. You're becoming what you hate: a cult leader. You've just chosen your own brand of "religion", and you are obsessed with it.


As with all religious types, they can't see they're behaving in a non-religious manner

A dip into philosophy wouldn't hurt you either. Most religious types are well-aware that they don't live up to the values of their religion. Its a work in progress.

jr565 said...

crack wrote:
And you're all that matters, right, jr? The kid, terrorized because they found a hole in Mormon "theology," they don't matter - to you - right? No, that's as it should be because jar's conscience is clear. You're an idiot, jr.

what hole in Mormon theology? I'm not trying to find a hole in anyone's theology. I don't believe in Mormonism, but if others do, who am I to judge them, except by their deeds? Romney is no crackpot, despite your bogeyman assertions. He's mainstream.
I wll say up front that Mormons have wacky beliefs. But then again so do most religions? What are their values? Most people who know Mormons say they usually are extremely niceand work hard. what SPECIFIC things h.ae you found out about Romney, other than your bogeyman assertions that would suggest he's his nefarious extremist. I know I know, he's a Mormon.

I think your hatred of cults has made ou turn rabid.

The Crack Emcee said...

Fen,

Why do we have to go to your blog? You post 24/7 here on Althouse about how Romney is some kind of Mormon cult threat. Not once have you posted anything here about Reid over the last 6 years, even though he's 3rd in line for POTUS and Senate Majority Leader.

How do you explain the discrepancy? Other than calling people names, of course...


Do you think you're the first person to say this? Or that I haven't commented on Reid - or didn't link to my blog (something I'm often criticized for, placing me in a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't position) OVER 6 YEARS to prove otherwise?

Just because you missed it doesn't mean it never happened.

Two more things:

#1 - Electing a member of a "secretive" group to power - and letting him get away with demanding nobody ask him questions about it - that's simply crazy. Funny how you cheerleaders miss the obvious:

What is ailing Romney? In addition to the gaffes and attack ads, our survey results suggest that the former governor may suffer from an honesty deficit. When asked “How honest do you think Mitt Romney is with American voters,” 29.4 percent of respondents replied with “slightly honest,” 26.6 percent offered a lukewarm “moderately honest,” and 26 percent said “not at all honest” (ouch). Furthermore, 30.4 percent of those surveyed believe Romney hides his true political opinions “about half the time.”

#2 - I am an INDIVIDUAL, who has been ravaged and tormented by cultism, but I not only have to take that, but I - the INDIVIDUAL - am also forced to deal with the bullshit all-comers (another group - the cult apologists) deliver to protect them.

Meanwhile, the cults who want to control INDIVIDUALS get your support, and you're electing their so-called "White Horse" to lead a country founded on a principal of the sanctity of the INDIVIDUAL.

It's the most cock-eyed, inverted, backwards behavior imaginable. Backwards, because you 21st Century inhabitants are clearly using 12th Century "logic" to get there.

Who, in their right mind, even talks about a "White Horse"? Only Mormons. (Osama bin Laden talked about the "strong horse," so there's that - which is also an example of 12th Century "logic.") Mormons also speak of "mecca" (like Islamists) and "gentiles" (like the Jews, though Mormons include Jews in their definition) and can't get simple archeology straight.

But they're members - who include that moron, Harry Reid, who's rarely ever said anything correct - are found to be perfect to lead the country. Why?

Because you assholes would rather bust my balls than theirs.

Oh, you motherfuckers are brave.

In your dreams,...

jr565 said...

Did I say that's what Mitt would do? Where? You're replacing your ideas for mine, again, jr. Meaning you're still an idiot. Learn how to address what's said - not your interpretation of it - and then we can talk.

You've certainly suggested some nefariousness will come, hence your venom directed at him simply because of his religious views. You're painting with a broad brush, and in conspiracy theory broadness, not with any specificity about ROMNEY himself.if you don't know what MItt will do, why all the venom?

Since I'm not a Christian, I have no idea what you're getting at.
rick perry got in trouble for doing exactly what you're doing, insinuating that Romney was part of a cult (well technically it was one of his advisors, and had to come out and say he didn't believe that. So Christians who make the argument should really stuff, since we can always hold their views under the same scrutiny. Br I notice you, despite not being a Christian, don't hold Christians to the same standard of cultish behavior despite them holding such similar crazy beliefs. And I'd imagine you voted in the past. If you did, you probably voted for someone who believes god turned a woman into a pillar of salt, in talking donkeys, in Joshua being able to stop the sun, etc etc. so why would you vote for any person who attends church?

Yeah, "at least" that, huh? (God, you set the bar low, man.)
What I'm saying is, Mormonism is not expressing itself through any extremist actions, so as far as religions go its benign. It doesn't mean I'm going to join the sect, but it does mean live and let live.



It does - I'm voting for neither.
That's your prerogative of course.



But you don't even acknowledge what that "very little evidence" is or means, or how it fits in with the word "secretive." You're an idiot, jr.
Very little evidence is what you're presenting, when it comes to Romney. It means exactly that. You're making a straw man argument against someone I don't even recognize (based on your argument) your characterization is so far off. I wouldn't vote for your straw man Romney either, but thankfully, that guy isn't running.

The Crack Emcee said...

Fen,

Thats really sad. You should get counseling.

I don't need counseling. I'm a foster child. I grew up alone, I'll live alone. Especially if the alternative is to spend my time with two harpies, arguing over what day to go to church, to get their marching orders over what to fight about.

You're becoming what you hate: a cult leader. You've just chosen your own brand of "religion", and you are obsessed with it.

You idiot - in order to be a cult leader, I'd have to have a cult. But, since I'd straighten out anyone who decided to follow me, that can't happen.

Man, you're a moron.

As with all religious types, they can't see they're A dip into philosophy wouldn't hurt you either. Most religious types are well-aware that they don't live up to the values of their religion. Its a work in progress.

If "Its a work in progress," then that's even more reason not to hitch your wagon to it, idiot. Religion's been around for - what? - 2,000 years?

Considering the behavior of most religious types - bending our ear while acting as though they don't believe the crap they say - I wouldn't hold out much hope they're gonna sort it out anytime soon,...

jr565 said...

Both harry Reid and Romney are Mormons, yet they seem to espouse entirely different policy goals. So which one is taking their marching orders from the mormon Vatican?

I can find plenty of reasons to hate Reid, but being a Mormon is way down on the list. Being a complete douche is much higher. Policy goals are much higher. If Reid's Mormonism itself wasn't a Disqualifier for Reid to serve in office, why should it be for Romney?

The Crack Emcee said...

jr565,

what hole in Mormon theology? I'm not trying to find a hole in anyone's theology. I don't believe in Mormonism, but if others do, who am I to judge them, except by their deeds?

I was talking about Mormons who find a hole in the theology - what do you care for them? You don't. If they get tormented, so be it.

Romney is no crackpot, despite your bogeyman assertions. He's mainstream.

Mainstream people don't claim Jesus is returning - to Missouri.

I wll say up front that Mormons have wacky beliefs.


Just not Mitt, right?

But then again so do most religions? What are their values? Most people who know Mormons say they usually are extremely niceand work hard.

They also led a massacre, took over a state through nefarious means, demanded nobody drink coffee or alcohol, judged anyone not like them as less-than, labeled blacks as unholy, and will lie about almost anything - until the "prophet" says not to anymore.

What's not to like?

what SPECIFIC things h.ae you found out about Romney, other than your bogeyman assertions that would suggest he's his nefarious extremist. I know I know, he's a Mormon.

And you can't be a Mormon without being an extremist. You can't be a Mormon without denying reality. You can't be a Mormon without paying them. You can't be a Mormon without distorting history, archeology, basic science and medicine, and a whole host of other things with a factual basis.

Which makes you perfect to lead, of course.

I think your hatred of cults has made ou turn rabid.

I think you're delusional. Or, at least, don't understand the internet. Tell me, jr:

How did I spend my day yesterday? Where did I go? Who did I see? You don't know. You have absolutely no clue about who you're talking to - so you fill in the blanks, repeatedly, with your own assumptions - just as you did by claiming I said Romney would get into office and Mormonize the country. And I love this:

You do have to take him at his word of course,...

Hilarious. The fact you'll take a politicians word, on face value, about what they're going to do - and especially a Mormon politician's word - shows how stupid you are. What's the beef on Obama - even from the Left?

He didn't do what he said he would!

But, somehow, you think - by electing the follower of a convicted con man - HE'S TELLING THE TRUTH!

You're too stupid for words sometimes,...

creeley23 said...

Akiva @3:59: Good to hear from you! Speaking for myself, I consider America and Israel to have strong mutual interests, and agree that Obama and Clinton's foreign policy has largely failed.

I had an exchange with another commenter last week in which I asked:

How many Israelis don't or won't acknowledge that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel?

It was news to me that this might be a contentious issue in Israel. Perhaps you can shed some light...

The Crack Emcee said...

jr565,

Both harry Reid and Romney are Mormons, yet they seem to espouse entirely different policy goals. So which one is taking their marching orders from the mormon Vatican?

The one following the admonition "stay in there and keep gaining power." You forget the Mormon "church" gave Romney permission to O.K. abortion (which he sought) even though it went against "church" teachings. Which not only brings up the question of what kind of "church" violates it's own laws for power - a cult does that - but also shows they simply don't care about the honesty you idiots claim is a bulwark of their belief system.

Cults don't care about that either.

I can find plenty of reasons to hate Reid, but being a Mormon is way down on the list. Being a complete douche is much higher. Policy goals are much higher. If Reid's Mormonism itself wasn't a Disqualifier for Reid to serve in office, why should it be for Romney?

I never said it's "a Disqualifier,...to serve in office" (you're putting your words in my mouth again - you should get help for that) I said a member of a cult should not LEAD THE NATION. Big difference.

Hillary Clinton is a member of the NewAge cult. I didn't vote for her or Obama either - for the same reason I'm not voting for Romney.

Where were all you pions then? Why weren't you beating down my door about that? No, that was fine - but the Right-wing cult? Oh, you can't have any dissension in the ranks about that, can you?

Fucking hypocrites,...

jr565 said...

If "Its a work in progress," then that's even more reason not to hitch your wagon to it, idiot. Religion's been around for - what? - 2,000 years?"

being able to live up,to your values is a work in progress, not the values themselves. Most of us are simply human.

Mainstream people don't claim Jesus is returning - to Missouri



Mainstream people might not claim that Jonah was swallowed by a whale, or that the bible makes scientific sense. Yet, such people can still hold office, run businesses and get by in the mainstream. Except, oh wait, they do. Why don't you hold Christians to account for their wacky beliefs, and not vote for any of them either? You probably wouldn't have to vote for the next 40 years, since there has yet to be a self avowed atheist president.
And also, some might find the idea of jesus returning at all, let alone in Missouri, to be crackpot thinking. You plan on telling all Christians that they are liars and fools?
Why don't you? I just don't get why, with your views, ANY religious person should serve in office.



They also led a massacre, took over a state through nefarious means, demanded nobody drink coffee or alcohol, judged anyone not like them as less-than, labeled blacks as unholy, and will lie about almost anything - until the "prophet" says not to anymore
you judge anyone not like you as less than, I assume you would find that to be a virtue. As to the rest, what other religions don't have similar issues? Christianity has the crusades and the Spanish inquisition, this whole country viewed blacks as inferior. And as far as not drinking coffee or alcohol, how is that different than Muslims not eating pork. If Romney becomes president and immediately starts shutting down bars and Starbucks then I will stand with ou in condemning his Mormonism, yet when he was governor, I'm sure you could still buy a beer in Maasachusets and drink your coffee.

The Crack Emcee said...

jr565,

being able to live up,to your values is a work in progress, not the values themselves. Most of us are simply human.

Ahhh, so you're giving Romney the same pass liberals give Slick Willy - which supposedly you opposed as conservatives - lots of integrity in that. I'm telling you:

You people are turning yourselves inside-out for this thing.

I just don't get why, with your views, ANY religious person should serve in office.

You forget - I've only been insisting we vet them thoroughly. Then we can decide if they can lead, not AFTER WE NOMINATE THEM.

you judge anyone not like you as less than, I assume you would find that to be a virtue.

No, I make a distinction between "smart" and "stupid" - I was taught that distinction in school. You know, that place set up to prepare us for life? What you want to do is eliminate that instruction for your own desires. People don't have to make sense for you. They can say anything, be dumb as a rock, but that's O.K.

Sorry - doesn't get an "A."

As to the rest, what other religions don't have similar issues? Christianity has the crusades and the Spanish inquisition, this whole country viewed blacks as inferior.

All lies. The Crusades and the Spanish inquisition were the result of Muslim fanaticism, so you need to learn history better. And "this whole country viewed blacks as inferior"? Boy, I wonder who was fighting the Civil War if that was true?

You're a moron, jr.

And as far as not drinking coffee or alcohol, how is that different than Muslims not eating pork.

A Mormon/Muslim "crazy" connection! Great - let's put them all in the White House!

If Romney becomes president and immediately starts shutting down bars and Starbucks then I will stand with ou in condemning his Mormonism, yet when he was governor, I'm sure you could still buy a beer in Maasachusets and drink your coffee.

Man, you can't only hold more than one idea in your head at a time, can you? The fact that he went against his moral teachings with the church's blessing - for power - says nothing to you about his, or his "church's" integrity. And the fact "Maasachusets" (I love that) is now BROKE from following his "leadership" also means nothing, right? No - he's an economic genius.

Your "thinking" is like glimpsing into The Dark Ages,…

Nichevo said...

Crack, isn't it a...,cult thing to jabber unintelligibly? Because:

That is what you are doing.

I quote you below, but really you're not saying anything. It all reads like "you're opposing me, you must be in a cult, waaah!"

Let's see. I say...it matters not what, I did not even discuss the candidates, I told you that you're slipping. Now with the longing for death-what bullshit. You're the big reality guy, the big action guy, or used to be. This is weaksauce. Snap out of it!

To which, I am a hypocrite. Ok, because...why? Because I don't criticize Romney for talking like a pussy weakling? Because he's not and you are? (Oh, I will, next time he does it.)

Maybe YOU are the hypocrite. Maybe, in fact, you are the cultist.

Twisted in knots? Dude, you can't even see the end of my rope.

Whatever my issues, I'm pretty sure you have no help to offer. You're so immersed in your own pain that you're lashing out blindly, and defeating your own message. Hell, I'm surprised you dignified my comments with a response. You usually don't reply when somebody's got your number. You pretend it never happened. Also cultish.

If you're all up in my shit now because weeks ago I explained why it had to be Romney and you has no answer, well, that's also bitchlike. I haven't said anything about that lately. Why bother, when you ignore?

But hey, if you wanna die, die. Althouse is the big anti-self-murder advocate, not me.

And to be clear: I have no interest in Romney's religion. I am not a Christian so the diff between him and a Catholic or Baptist is hardly visible. I'm aware of offensive stuff from the Mormons. And from everybody else.

It is different from the Obama poison. In that atmosphere you cannot live.

The Obama regime is like being in a house afire. There may be broken glass in the street. There may be junkies on the corner. The bus may be late. Streetlamps the annoying flickery kind. Traffic.

But none of that matters, because we are in a burning house. First rule of house fires: get out of the burning house. Even if the fireman may ask you "Are you saved?" or some such crap.

You want to stay in a burning house, or refuse to leave except through an exit that does not exist, out of what you see to be moral purity. The fireman must be...I dunno what he must be...not this guy.

Me, I don't greatly care if the fireman calls me polack or kike. I can smack him later. Right now I want to avoid having my clothes catch fire, my flesh burn, my lungs fill with smoke. You, he calls you a nigger, you're gonna rush right back into the flames. Your priorities are FUCKED, brother.

Besides, since he is a Republican, the media will crap on him every chance they get. No free ride for his cult. So at least there's that, Cracky.

Wake up and smell the burning house!

The Crack Emcee said...

Nichevo,

Whatever you do, quit whining!

Look who's talking! I complain about organized groups, out to control everyone's life - and who have already had a profound effect on mine - but you're all twisted in knots OVER ONE GUY ON A BLOG!

Feeling like a hypocrite yet, asshole?

Rather than handing out advice - or even talking -you might want to practice getting a grip ON YOURSELF, maestro,...

8/6/12 8:47 AM

jr565 said...

crack Emcee wrote:
Look who's talking! I complain about organized groups, out to control everyone's life - and who have already had a profound effect on mine - but you're all twisted in knots OVER ONE GUY ON A BLOG!


Has the mormon cult had a profound effect on your life? I highly doubt it.If they, or scientologists are trying to control my life, i have no evidence of that. You'd have to be in the cult for them to be controlling your life. If not, then what they do is simply noise. Are they breaking laws? If so, then certainly arrest them, but if not, what do I care if they believe that underwear has magic powers. I don't believe that, them believing that wont make me drink the koolaid, and as long as they aren't forcing me to adopt said view, I can chalk it up to a stupid religious belief. HOw are they in other aspects of their life?

Believe me, if I held the view that crack holds towards mormons, I could never be friends with it would be hard to be friends with almost any religious person. Because if you look at any religion it has some kooky ideas.
How does their religion manifest in their lives? Do they strap bombs on their chest, that's a harmful religion. Do they preach and practice brotherly love? That's a religion I can abide, even if I am not a proponent of that religion.

My mom considers herself a born again Christian. Now, she's not one to quote the bible and take it with absolute literalness. Her view of being born again, is a lot different than what we'd traditionally view as born again christians, who are usually very literal in their interpretation of Christiany. But I suppose I could try to belittle her belief and try to catch her in the discrepency of believing in fairy tales and press her on how she could believe in the bible when it has stories like the ones I linked to above, but that's kind of dicky isn't it?

Gene said...

What difference does it make that he's never visited Israel? Netanyahu comes here every two weeks to address congress (or so it seems). Besides, I'd much rather Obama visit places in this country where by Obama's own admission people are so desperate they have to cling to their religion and guns (since the government took everything else away from them).

The Crack Emcee said...

Hey, jr, you made the cut again:

If I Was In Charge (I'd Treat The Servants Better,...)

Gene said...

As an American ex-patriot Jew living in Israel, I can say Romney's visit was very popular here. There's around 300,000 American ex-patriots in Israel as well as another 50,000 American's in religious studies. Last election they not only swung heavy for Obama, they were very very organized in voter registration prior to the election, which included pre-filled absentee ballots for Obama.

When you move to another country don't you have to quit voting in the old country (in this case the United States)?

Nichevo said...

If you retain your US citizenship I don't suppose you do. I just wish he would look up and use "expatriate."